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Lucia Wilber
Minmatar The Steel Vipers
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Posted - 2009.02.15 08:28:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 15/02/2009 08:28:38 Okay, so I decided to take the long haul towards HAC. I have average attributes (12 Charisma and all others around 19-22), so training time is a bit slow but I'm satisfied since I generally get between 1800 and 2000 SP/hour.
Once I complete Amarr Cruiser V, I'm going for Assault Ship IV (I have III) and then the other skills needed to fly a HAC, then I'm going for the skills needed to use Tech 2 Medium energy turrets effectively.
Now, my main plan is to get into a Zealot. I've read a lot and heard that they are excellent ships in PvP. Fast, powerful, and durable. My question is mainly twofold:
1) How do you fly a Zealot? What is the preferred setup / tactic for approaching enemies?
2) Is the Zealot a good solo Amarr ship? That is, can I reasonably expect to either destroy or successfully escape most other fits on most other ships if I so choose?
Basically, I have had a lot of reasons to shift to a different ship (primarily Gallente) but have stuck to my guns on Amarr ships and would just like a little reinforcement that I'm making the right choice. I love Amarr ships and I love lasers!
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omplapa
Caldari R.A.G.N.A.R.O.K.
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Posted - 2009.02.15 08:52:00 -
[2]
i didnt like it..
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.15 09:40:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mickey Simon on 15/02/2009 09:40:00 The lack of dronebay makes it more vulnerable to AF's when compared to the HAC's that do have a dronebay if the opposing pilot has half a brain. edit: They're pretty goddam nice ships though.
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Rennion
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Posted - 2009.02.15 10:06:00 -
[4]
Risky solo ship. No frigate defense means you have to be on your toes at all times, someone gets a scram on you and you die.
Awesome gang ship though.
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Lee Wai
Sekura-Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.15 10:12:00 -
[5]
I'd look into the Amarr recons if you wan't Amarr solo ships. :) --Sig--
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.15 11:11:00 -
[6]
To be honest: Not really, no.
A decent solo ship needs some measure of flexibility in what it can do, and the Zealot has only 3 mids, no utility highslots for neuts, and no drone bay. It hits hard but it's not especially sturdy, and the more tank you put on it the more apparent it is that you should just use a Harbinger instead.
The thing is decently quick though and some people have had good experiences soloing with them. Gneeznow had a fit (which I haven't seen him use much anymore) with capacitor power relays, a rep, full tackle, FMP II and a 1600mm plate.
One of the problems with the ship for a solo role is that you really really really don't want to be in web or scram range. Why? Because the minimum range on your guns is like 10-11km. Get under that and you'll find yourself scrammed and webbed and not really able to dictate range, and destroyed in short order.
Not to say that the ship can't kill anything. Anything you can outrange and keep range on you can kill, and you can kill frigates very well from range, as long as you don't get swarmed. Honestly, I'd spare the mid for a sensor booster even when soloing because its so critical to lock frigates just that much faster... because you're not likely to hit them very well once they've landed on you, whether or not you have a web.
So, in summary, things you can probably kill in a zealot: + Anything frigate-size outside of ~20km ish; I always like it when ceptors rush me from about 60km, get locked at 50km, and have exploded before they hit 35km. + T1 cruisers as long as you pull range on them + Short-range battlecruisers, as long as you have range + destroyers + Lightly tanked HACs, or again anything you can pull range on (Ishtar, Deimos, Sacrilege)
Things that will give you huge problems: - neuts - a single unbonused TD - a scram or web - anything frigate size under your guns - really anything closer than 8km :-/
If you're serious about giving it a try, consider investing in a faction warp disruptor, preferably a 30km one. With a 24km point you're giving up about 90% of your range bonus (since HPL II + Scorch has 23km optimal) and might as well just use a Harbinger. A faction point on the other hand lets you use much more of your 30km+ optimal range which gives you a LOT more breathing room.
That sort of wandered all over the place but whatever :/
Final note: The Zealot is not an ideal solo PVP ship but the thing is absolutely brutal in gangs, where a gang means having even one other person with you. __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.15 11:21:00 -
[7]
I just realized that I spent a lot of time answering your second question and not so much your first.
Quickly, then: since the zealot is really astoundingly vulnerable to many many things (frigates, scrams, webs, neuts, TDs, ECM, even damps) the first thing I do when arriving on a fight is look for anything thats really likely to screw me over given the chance, and blow it up. This includes all frigates (hell they only take a few seconds to kill anyway, might as well), EWAR cruisers, recons, and lightly shield tanked missile boats (read: caracals and cerberi).
In general flying a Zealot is all about range. Pulse lasers have good tracking but only when there's some range between you and your enemy, and the Zealot has a very hefty range bonus to play with. What this means is that you want to be at the maximum possible range at which you can do your job; 24km if you need to hold a point, 30+ km otherwise. Be very very careful when approaching a ship; the last thing you want them to do is to overload their mwd/web/scram and rush you just as you start turning around.
It's a lot easier to manage the ship and do your job when you don't have to worry about holding a point. 24km point range compared to 10km webrange seems like a lot of buffer, but then you'll actually be more like 21km away (otherwise you'll lose the point) and they can web from 13km (overloading 4tw) so that distance can disappear very very quickly and if it does, be assured your zealot will follow. __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.02.15 12:10:00 -
[8]
You can summarize what Terianna said in this;
Solo - Zealot is very vulnerable to alot of things, no, it's not good for that role. Gang - Bloody awsome ship.
If you want to fly Amarr and fill both solo- and gang-role, look into the Sacrilege. But yah, you'd have to get the missile crap for that one.
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Kingwood
Amarr Defile.
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Posted - 2009.02.15 13:42:00 -
[9]
Zealot takes a lot of practice to fly solo (read: Frig fodder), but is awesome in gangs. If you want a good solo HAC, skill for Ishtar.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.02.15 14:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kingwood Zealot takes a lot of practice to fly solo (read: Frig fodder), but is awesome in gangs. If you want a good solo HAC, skill for Ishtar.
Or Vagabond, and learn to pick your targets. But 'learn to pick your target' goes for almost all solo ships anyway.
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.02.15 18:23:00 -
[11]
Before Quantum Fail, one could fly an awesome Zealobond solo. Now it's all about the 1600 fit or the sniper fit. Both are poor solo. [center]
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Demeterus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.15 18:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Misanth
If you want to fly Amarr and fill both solo- and gang-role, look into the Sacrilege. But yah, you'd have to get the missile crap for that one.
This. If you fly Amarr and want a decent solo hac, the sac is it. But you need heavy assault missile launcher II:s to make it shine. With decent skills, you'll get 400-450 dps. It's also got a really good tank. You can easily get a 60k buffer tank on it.
It moves like a brick, yes, but the sac is lethal. --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs? |
Lucia Wilber
Minmatar The Steel Vipers
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:13:00 -
[13]
So, in short...I'm skilling up for the wrong race and/or wrong weapon system if I want to fly a medium-sized solo ship...
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lucia Wilber So, in short...I'm skilling up for the wrong race and/or wrong weapon system if I want to fly a medium-sized solo ship...
Look into the Omen Navy Issue and Phantasm. Neither of them have the Zealot's range bonus, but that's largely irrelevant if you're sticking to 23km. Also, the Harbinger. Also it's not like you can't kill anything in a Zealot, it's more like there are a number of frighteningly common things that will kill you.
Misanth: I kinda tend to ramble on about Zealots, they're sort of my favorite ship ever. __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Demeterus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Misanth: I kinda tend to ramble on about Zealots, they're sort of my favorite ship ever.
I love zipping around in the zealot. I mean, if you get a gang going, it will wipe most things with its lasers. It's fairly fast and nimble, and the pulse lasers carry a fair wallop. But I wouldn't go out alone in it. I'd use the pilgrim or the sac for solo work. :) --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs? |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Demeterus
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Misanth: I kinda tend to ramble on about Zealots, they're sort of my favorite ship ever.
I love zipping around in the zealot. I mean, if you get a gang going, it will wipe most things with its lasers. It's fairly fast and nimble, and the pulse lasers carry a fair wallop. But I wouldn't go out alone in it. I'd use the pilgrim or the sac for solo work. :)
I fly in FW so I sometimes go out in the zealot and see if I can trick frigs into attacking me :P __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Kingwood
Amarr Defile.
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lucia Wilber So, in short...I'm skilling up for the wrong race and/or wrong weapon system if I want to fly a medium-sized solo ship...
No, you're not. You just need to learn what you can take on and what not. You will instapop Frigates at range, but if they manage to get close, your Zealot is dead. You can't go wrong skilling for this ship, it is dead sexy and the best HAC in the game, imo.
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Demeterus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.15 20:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Demeterus on 15/02/2009 20:32:14
Originally by: Terianna Eri
I fly in FW so I sometimes go out in the zealot and see if I can trick frigs into attacking me :P
As it always is with Eve Online. You need the right tool for the right job. Just like you wouldn't use a sledgehammer to swat flies, you generally don't use a zealot for solo roams. --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs? |
Inertial
Killing Spree Inc Unity Thru Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.02.16 12:21:00 -
[19]
I find the Zealot a decent mid-long range DPS ship. No tank, you stay at around 40-100km range and just hit whatever you can. Here is my fit:
[Zealot, New Setup 1] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Power Diagnostic System II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Does decent damage at 100km, double that damage at 40km. I have claimed top spot at several killmails with this fit, but this fit is only for situations were you are not vulnerble to sentries.
The reason I chose this fit for the Zealot is because a Harbinger would be better in all sitations if you are going close range gank and tank.
we are recruiting! |
Cpt Constantinus
Celestial Janissaries
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Posted - 2009.02.16 12:55:00 -
[20]
Harbi might have a stronger tank but the Zealot is faster, more agile and has a much higher weapon range.
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Cupdeez
Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.02.16 15:06:00 -
[21]
any ships is good for solo pvp but it all depends on who you are trying to solo.
Personally I like recons because you can sneak up on the target and killem!! This gives you the ability to pick your targets better.
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Misina Arlath
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.16 15:23:00 -
[22]
If you want a flexible solo ship, look at the Recons instead. Curse/Pilgrim are both awesome ships that are both flexible and effective when alone (moreso than many other ships anyways).
Curse with it's 30km+ range on neuts can take on most things within disruptor range, which basically means anyone who can outfly you will rather try to warp away than get within your neut range.
Pilgrim, though it lacks the range with neuts to make it as dangerous as Curse upfront, can fly around happily with a cloak until it finds a target of opportunity, then crawl up within neut range while cloaked and really surprise the crap out of ratters and others.
Of course, there's a plethora of ships out there if you want to try flying solo. As far as Amarr goes though, if you are looking for a ship that take a roughly equal amount of training time as a HAC, then recons are worth looking into.
Keep in mind though that "soloing" is a word that is fast becomming extinct in EVE, if it isn't already :S -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!" |
Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.02.16 20:42:00 -
[23]
When you go solo expect to fight the blob. Only part of the blob you can fight in a t2 cruiser is its tackle. To kill an interceptor you probably want a t2 scrambler. Drones are kind of nice too. Zealot doesn't want to be in scramble range and has no drone bay. So, unless people hang around and let you snipe them its not going to happen. And if an interceptor gets tackle you're going to have a really hard time shaking it.
I'm not saying you cant put a scrambler on a zealot. But forcing yourself to fight within 10km given your range and tracking will be frustrating.
So that means youre going after ratters, and anybody stupid enough to fly without tackle/scout in a ship slower than you.
Speaking of that, putting a 1600mm plate on is not going to help you get out of gatecamps anytime soon.
Sacrilege is ok, you can fit dual armor rep, feel a little more comfortable closing up, and sport a drone bay. But if you want to run gatecamps you're still going to have to devote one or two valuable lows to nanofibers.
The reason most people solo in t2 frigs, vagabonds, and recons is that they have a high chance of running away when life gets crappy.
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Lucia Wilber
Minmatar The Steel Vipers
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:11:00 -
[24]
Okay, then...slight shift of gears.
18 days to fly a Jaguar with T2 Autocannons. I don't particularly enjoy my Retribution as it is even with T2 Pulses due to the total lack of midslots. Jaguar looks much tastier!
Any opinions on that as a good little ship? Perhaps in a small gang, even?
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.02.17 05:23:00 -
[25]
Jag is a nice ship. Its survivable and can do a nice little bit of dps.
With the zealot, its not a bad ship, but you need one buddy around in a small ship to help you get the most out of it. Its not solo, doesn't mean its bad.
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ry ry
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Posted - 2009.02.17 08:20:00 -
[26]
Edited by: ry ry on 17/02/2009 08:20:40 i know AB AFs are very FOTM at the moment, and very effective once you've webbed a cruiser, but if i'm solo (or the only frig in gang) i like the opportunities for a tactical withdrawl (read: running away) and catching things that are more than ~20k away that the MWD offers.
you can stick a fairly heft MSE buffer on a jag, but it needs at least on gyro or you're doing ****-poor rifter damage. with a MWD, MSE and a gyro, you're starting to run tight on CPU so you may have to drop the launcher which leaves you with even less DPS. so on and so forth.
which isn't to say the Jag is bad - it's one of the best minmatar ships - just that it's not the all-singing, all-dancing ultimate killing machine it gets touted as. find a setup that suits you rather than just going for the cookie cutter SHC fits.
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