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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
POKER CHIP
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 08:46:00 -
[301]
ok.. so from what i have read and seen on the test server... i am now really upset at CCP... this alt is 20 days from MAX probing skills with everything from Covert ops 5 to triangulation 5... today i scan out 2x drakes in a mission both with 5x T2 hobies out.. after using safe spots and the like i get within 5au... i manage to get 2x 5au probes to overlock their posistion... after 20 min of probing they leave the mission -- even with my skills i could not get a hit... now you are telling me current probing is too easy??? and i now need to somehow get 4 points on a target..
my question is how can i do that if someone is in a SS or mission outside of the 'warpable object area' how can you possiable get a probe further out in space than your target is?? or is this just another botched 'fix' like missiles can anyone say FAIL!!
time it takes for pirating to become invalid?
how long before the only PVP will be done station camping a high sec war target in JITA ??
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.22 08:54:00 -
[302]
I was able to actually scan down some signatures tonight. The system map is still messed up, but you can still scan if you avoid clicking on anything but empty space. If the system map locks up you have to restart the client to get it working again. Luckily, the button to reconnect to your probes actually sorta works when you relog. The only problem is it gives double entries for some of your probes but they still act like a single probe.
My technique was as follows:
1) launch a deep space probe and set range to 1024. 2) scan for signatures. (the filter is still broken, so everything shows up) 3) If you see any signatures, destroy the deep space probe and launch a core probe. 4) set the range of the core probe to 8au and sequentially center it on each planet in the system until you get a hit. 5) once you get a hit, move the probe in different directions while watching the signal strength result of the scan. (the range of the hit will vary randomly until you get a 100% strength return, so it is not a good value to use until then) 6) once you get the strength to 100%, narrow down the range as much as possible by incrementally moving the probe. 7) I was generally trying to get the first probe within at least 9 million km. 8) now you can launch 3 more probes and move them to surround the first one you've been using. 9) you may have to play around with the position a bit to try to make sure the probes actually surround the spot where the signature is otherwise the result will not converge into one hit. 10) you should now have a warpable hit. good luck.
I found about 10 sites tonight but no wormholes unfortunately It was taking me about 10-20 minutes to find each site. I got faster with practice.
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:01:00 -
[303]
Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 22/02/2009 09:02:16 Found another wormhole. This one had a base (1024AU) strength of 0.26%.
pic: http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6617/20090222084356.jpg
And yes. That dot in the middle is my ship .
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:03:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Miss Moonwych Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 22/02/2009 09:02:16 Found another wormhole. This one had a base (1024AU) strength of 0.26%.
pic: http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6617/20090222084356.jpg
And yes. That dot in the middle is my ship .
that the probe that requires astrometrics 5 to use i see?
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Georgi Kuriacin
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:03:00 -
[305]
Originally by: POKER CHIP ok.. so from what i have read and seen on the test server... i am now really upset at CCP... this alt is 20 days from MAX probing skills with everything from Covert ops 5 to triangulation 5... today i scan out 2x drakes in a mission both with 5x T2 hobies out.. after using safe spots and the like i get within 5au... i manage to get 2x 5au probes to overlock their posistion... after 20 min of probing they leave the mission -- even with my skills i could not get a hit... now you are telling me current probing is too easy??? and i now need to somehow get 4 points on a target..
my question is how can i do that if someone is in a SS or mission outside of the 'warpable object area' how can you possiable get a probe further out in space than your target is?? or is this just another botched 'fix' like missiles can anyone say FAIL!!
time it takes for pirating to become invalid?
how long before the only PVP will be done station camping a high sec war target in JITA ??
Your ship doesn't have to drop the probes where they scan. You can move them after they are dropped anywhere in the system.
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:07:00 -
[306]
Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N that the probe that requires astrometrics 5 to use i see?
Thats the deep space probe (I've got lvl 5). Not really needed for finding anything right now. Just handy when you wanna know in one scan whats in a system.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:16:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Miss Moonwych Found another wormhole. This one had a base (1024AU) strength of 0.26%.
Now that ships, rigs and skills affect the sig str of your probes, how do you define a common baseline? You get the value obtained from the deep space probe and remove the bonuses from it? Or is there a smartest way I am not aware of?
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Lyvanna Kitaen
Minmatar Noonday Sun Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:27:00 -
[308]
I would like to make a suggestion to CCP to put more space between the scan button and the buttons that retrieve/reconnect/destroy our probes. I've already pressed the return button by accident a couple of times and it's a pain when all your probes return after you've spent a bunch of time getting them positioned.
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:37:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Originally by: Miss Moonwych Found another wormhole. This one had a base (1024AU) strength of 0.26%.
Now that ships, rigs and skills affect the sig str of your probes, how do you define a common baseline? You get the value obtained from the deep space probe and remove the bonuses from it? Or is there a smartest way I am not aware of?
For common base line I use the strengths (with 1024AU) without skills. Like we had before. In this case I had to calculate/estimate backwards to see what that base strength was (I believe I have something like 2.875x strength bonus atm).
Skills and other stuff that affect target strength:
- covop skill - asrt tri skill - sisters scanner - grav rigs - pph implants - boosters?
Regards,
M.M.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.22 11:23:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 22/02/2009 11:35:24
Originally by: Miss Moonwych
Interestingly: all reported 0.26% base strength targets (and half of the 0.16%) were wormholes so far . edit it even looks like all 0.20% and 0.40% wormholes were either to 0.0 or empire space. So maybe the 0.16% and 0.26% signatures are wormholes to unknown space? Not sure yet but could be interesting.
edit2 My working hypothesis:
- 0.40% wormholes lead to empire - 0.26% wormholes lead to unkown space - 0.20% wormholes lead to 0.0 - 0.16% wormholes lead to harder unkown space
Regards,
M.M.
Interesting research. I found some wormholes, but didn't get the no-skill signature because of.. err... laziness, since I didn't want to spend time inverting to the no-skill baseline the data reported by deepspace probes. However this research is worth pursuing, count on me for more data.
Also I did some number crunching on the data you provided before. As soon as i can I want to play a litttle bit with gnuplot. If in the meanwhile you can come up with some data between 30 and 60 degrees that might help a lot in plotting a curve.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 11:30:00 -
[311]
Again my question: do results deviate or all "deviation" skills are useless atm?
Also whats the "minimum" skills needed to scan out the hardest sites?
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.22 11:39:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Again my question: do results deviate or all "deviation" skills are useless atm?
Who knows? They SHOULD deviate, according to greyscale's words, but last patch foobarred the map, so dots are not showing...
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also whats the "minimum" skills needed to scan out the hardest sites?
Depends on the equipment you use. With a covop, and str skills at 4 you probably won't have much trouble finding the harder sites, while without a covop and low skills you won't be able to find anything more than base 1 and base 2 sites.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 11:43:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Again my question: do results deviate or all "deviation" skills are useless atm?
Who knows? They SHOULD deviate, according to greyscale's words, but last patch foobarred the map, so dots are not showing...
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also whats the "minimum" skills needed to scan out the hardest sites?
Depends on the equipment you use. With a covop, and str skills at 4 you probably won't have much trouble finding the harder sites, while without a covop and low skills you won't be able to find anything more than base 1 and base 2 sites.
So still like 1/3 of whole scan system (and point of some skills etc.) depends on target deviation or lack of therof... Hope they fix it soon.
And if strength differences are as big as you say its good. What i meant: there is a point of using covops for exploration :)
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Melissa Ravenflame
Caldari Zulu Squadron
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Posted - 2009.02.22 13:29:00 -
[314]
OK, am I missing something or am I a numpty. If numpty, can someone help
I just can see any graphics when selecting a scan result. Nothing shows so I'm struggling to triangulate it down. Is there a work around?
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Zephina Lith
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Posted - 2009.02.22 13:40:00 -
[315]
I don't understand why you will switch the level rank of the skills "astrometric triangulation" and "signal acquisition". Personally I have level 4 in signal aquisition and level 5 in astrometric triangulation for now and with the change it will be inverted.
The fact is that I didn't intend to spend 24d for signal acquisition (due to the small bonus) and now I will have to spend it in astrometric triangulation.
Please explain me the goal of this change.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 14:12:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Zephina Lith I don't understand why you will switch the level rank of the skills "astrometric triangulation" and "signal acquisition". Personally I have level 4 in signal aquisition and level 5 in astrometric triangulation for now and with the change it will be inverted.
The fact is that I didn't intend to spend 24d for signal acquisition (due to the small bonus) and now I will have to spend it in astrometric triangulation.
Please explain me the goal of this change.
Under current (TQ) scan system the 10% faster scan speed is MUCH better than 5% scan strength.
Under new system (Sisi) scan strength is more important factor than scan speed.
Thus more important skill trains longer. Less important one trains faster (lower rank).
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.22 14:35:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor Edited by: Reatu Krentor on 18/02/2009 16:48:09 I understand you don't want to have a modifier key, but have you considered simplifying the widget to only have an XY-plane and a Z-axis to move? Why do users absolutely need the other controls? To me it only adds unnecessary complexity to the widget which isn't necessary in 99-99.9% of the systems in eve. Besides that it only makes it harder to select the correct control to do what you want.
(edit) While you're at it, why not do the same change to the POS placement control?
I'm cool cause I quote myself
-- stuff -- |
Chuck Dexter
Caldari Full Contact
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Posted - 2009.02.22 14:38:00 -
[318]
Edited by: Chuck Dexter on 22/02/2009 14:40:55 Edited by: Chuck Dexter on 22/02/2009 14:38:42 Hi, only a short question. Today i patched my singularity to the latest patch. (last one is 5 day ago, or something like that). Today i want to start scanning again to look what has changed, but there are some strange things. I cant load an Deep space probe into the core launcher because the launcher only has 0.8 m capacity. Whats that? I can onlyload Core probes into the Core scanner? the Deep Space Probes needs 1 m3 place to load into a scanner, so whats happened with this? Ok, i start to fly with the "core Probes" but the Map F10 is totally buggy. After 10 Try's on/off i was able to launch some "core probes" but when i want to move them in space, the probe i touched before, is moving back to the position it was before. I wondered that everybody is talking about probing here today, but i am not able to handle the map like 7 days before and the "deep space probe" cannot loaded into the new "core launcher". Can anyone give me short status report??? Thank you very much.
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Contralto
Snark Associates
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Posted - 2009.02.22 14:54:00 -
[319]
You will need the Expanded probe launcher I.
The map is bugged, press F11, then expand the map from there.
don't click on any object on the map
toggle the solar system map from the control panel
do not click on any object on the map.
launch a probe, drag it to a planet then press the scan button, it will warp into position
set the range to what you desire
Work the rest out for yourself :)
Note you can only move one probe at a time between scans.
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2009.02.22 15:00:00 -
[320]
Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 22/02/2009 15:03:17
Originally by: Space Wanderer Edited by: Space Wanderer on 22/02/2009 11:35:24
Originally by: Miss Moonwych
Interestingly: all reported 0.26% base strength targets (and half of the 0.16%) were wormholes so far . edit it even looks like all 0.20% and 0.40% wormholes were either to 0.0 or empire space. So maybe the 0.16% and 0.26% signatures are wormholes to unknown space? Not sure yet but could be interesting.
edit2 My working hypothesis:
- 0.40% wormholes lead to empire - 0.26% wormholes lead to unkown space - 0.20% wormholes lead to 0.0 - 0.16% wormholes lead to harder unkown space
Regards,
M.M.
Interesting research. I found some wormholes, but didn't get the no-skill signature because of.. err... laziness, since I didn't want to spend time inverting to the no-skill baseline the data reported by deepspace probes. However this research is worth pursuing, count on me for more data.
Also I did some number crunching on the data you provided before. As soon as i can I want to play a litttle bit with gnuplot. If in the meanwhile you can come up with some data between 30 and 60 degrees that might help a lot in plotting a curve.
Hehe. Found another wormhole . This time a base 0.16% signature.
Seems that so far my theory is holding.
Oh. And btw I found these whs in low-sec... (cant seem to find 0.16s and 0.26s in 0.0)
Btw: here is a link if anyone wants to know how to determine the base strength of a site/wormhole using his or her own results.
Regards,
M.M.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2009.02.22 16:20:00 -
[321]
Yes, the map is broken. We're very sorry about this. The whole thing had to be recoded more or less from scratch to work in scene2, and it still has a few kinks to be worked out.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Uh... do we play the same game? Cost of a ship has nothing to do with its effectiveness and shouldnt come into calculation if its useful or useless. If falcon can probe and jam and covops can only probe ill take falcon over covops any day (and this is not only me but like 80% of players if notmore).
When it comes to being "effective" recon: falcon: cloak, salvager, cyno, recon launcher // mwd, 5x jammer, sensor booster // 1600mm plate, 2x SDA t2 // 1x range 1x ECM power rig
[...]
EDIT: sorry for sounding like an ******* when it comes to ship cost but it ticks me off. Especially when titans were supposed to be rare because of their high "cost".
If you're happy to replace your covops with a plated Falcon then... no, we're not playing the same game, it seems If the things you're using a covops for can be done as well with that setup, and you're not worried about the cost or the probing speed penalty due to decreased strength, then yes, you're better off in the Falcon. For the stuff I use a PvP covert ops for, a recon just isn't a sensible option.
(As to the cost thing, there's a difference between trying to "balance by cost" - "this ship is balanced because it's expensive", which often ends badly - and allowing for less functional, less expensive ships. A mothership is better in pretty much all respects to a carrier, but that doesn't mean that the cheaper carrier is pointless.)
Originally by: Ki Tarra I pointed out in the other thread, that if you allow players to warp to both points obtained from a three-probe scan then you allow them to create ultra-deep safe spots.
I have not seen any further comments on this topic. I would like confirmation that the mechanic does work like you originally stated, and that you are not planning to change it:
The result doesn't become warpable until you get a hit with four probes?
This shoudn't be possible, I'm 95% sure that those points aren't warpable. I'd test it, but... the map's broken :P
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
- logistics - some recons
Hum. My spreadsheet disagrees with yours, by the look of it
For logistics ships I'm getting (alphabetically): 1.135645398 1.21506116 1.094265606 1.1880598
Originally by: Captain Vampire First a question(answer not required, though I hope you ponder for a while): From a game designes POV, is the new mechanics intended to buff/nerf the current PvP probe system, or keep it at the same level?
Right now, launching 4 probes, start moving them around, triangulating the target, realize it warped/cloaked 19/20 times, recall probes and repeat in the next system; sounds frustrating, boring and hands down like a horrible game mechanic. It is not fun the 36th time, and it is in fact demanding.
The system itself isn't that bad, but it is horrible when combined with local chat, cloaks and logofskis. And since delayed local has been delayed(oh the irony), cloaks and logofskis haven't been touched, let alone discussed, I think this change will indeed slap another set of handcuffs on the small gang roamers.
It's intended to be roughly equivalent overall, but it's not a design requirement that we hit this target at this stage. As you say, local, cloaks and so on all have a major effect and they're things that we want to revisit in more detail in a near-future release. Given this, spending a lot of time tuning the system for the initial Apocrypha release doesn't make an overwhelming case for itself given that we want to change significant variables soon anyway.
That said, we'll be keeping an eye on the feedback, and if there are things coming up post-release (once people are actually using the system in the wild) that we can fix without sweeping changes, we'll do our best to do so.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2009.02.22 16:21:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 17/02/2009 22:58:41 just a question. IIRC recon probes served scan results that were true at the start of the scan.
is that still the case in the new system ? is the scan result a snapshot at the time the scaning started ?
I don't think this was ever the case and I don't think it is now.
Originally by: COMMANDER KATHRYN I'd like the following changes made.
1. Remove your ship's model from the system/starmap (it really gets in the way)
2. If possible change the color for the 2 dots when there is a 3 probe hit ( can be really confusing when you have a 4 probe hit on 2 different sites that are 1au apart from each other.
3. Make the probe movement widget scalable so that when your zoomed in it isnt filling the screen.
4. Allow us to turn off the ability to change probe range by dragging the bubble outward/inward (It gets annoying when you have 4 probes active and overlapped)
5. Make it possible to, if all probes are highlighted in scanner window, change the probe scan ranges as a group rather than only individually.
6. And finally could you make it so that the Starmap is automatically centered on your current location, or atleast an option for this??
1) is a bug 2) we're hoping to get a different icon for the warpable result, I'm not sure what the status on this is though 3) is fixed internally and I think is on SiSi 4) I'm not sure what the status on this is currently, the UI team may have revised it away already 5) I think this is getting done 6) I'm not quite sure what you mean here
Originally by: Creat Posudol What is good about the Homeworld-system is that you don't have to micro-manage your cursor: You don't have to let go of the probe you're dragging to switch from x+y to z (and back). So I'd see the modifier key as a clear upside, not as a bad thing (why do you hate modifier keys anyway?).
This is a good point.
(The thing with modifier keys is that they're often hard to convey to the user and, in a mouse-driven system like this, they feel like a cop-out. Usually I'm a keyboard jockey, but if I'm using a mouse I like to stick with the mouse rather than having to use the keyboard at the same time. That's just personal preference, and not one that has a huge bearing on the iteration of this UI as I'm only loosely involved in UI development.)
Originally by: An Anarchyyt So I'd like to reiterate that having Deep Space Probes at V makes it completely worthless as a multispectral type probe.
It's not intended to act as a multispec; the main reason for re-including it is to allow the scanning of deep safes. In an ideal world there'd just be the two probe types.
Originally by: Boby Cola Greyscale, you are my new favorite Dev, you ROCK!!!!
what about a Sister Core Launcher I ?
Had a think about it and decided to give the Core launcher the bonus too. Text is now updated on both to reflect this fact.
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 18/02/2009 14:13:00 Do results deviate? Or still the "dot" is always centered on site? At work, cant check.
Not yet, no.
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- ROF on launchers has been lowered, because it was annoying me
3/10 for the trolling attempt :( If it was annoying you, don't you think it'll annoy users ?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- Revisiting the rest of the intel suite is still on our near-future to-do list; we wanted it in Apocrypha but didn't have time to squeez
I hope you have solid plans for the local because 50% of the player still want it. It really divides the community.
Yes, I thought it would annoy users, that's why I reduced it on all the launchers. Or am I misunderstanding?
We have nebulous plans for local, because we haven't done proper designs yet. They'll become solid plans once we start working in earnest. And yes, we know it's a big deal for everyone, that's why we're being careful with it.
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King Hopy
Interstellar eXodus Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 16:33:00 -
[323]
Please, remove local. The carebears have it all.. remove system local and make into a constellation local or something. It's just way too easy to run now. In the least make wormhole space have no local :)
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POKER CHIP
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 16:45:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Georgi Kuriacin
Originally by: POKER CHIP ok.. so from what i have read and seen on the test server... i am now really upset at CCP... this alt is 20 days from MAX probing skills with everything from Covert ops 5 to triangulation 5... today i scan out 2x drakes in a mission both with 5x T2 hobies out.. after using safe spots and the like i get within 5au... i manage to get 2x 5au probes to overlock their posistion... after 20 min of probing they leave the mission -- even with my skills i could not get a hit... now you are telling me current probing is too easy??? and i now need to somehow get 4 points on a target..
my question is how can i do that if someone is in a SS or mission outside of the 'warpable object area' how can you possiable get a probe further out in space than your target is?? or is this just another botched 'fix' like missiles can anyone say FAIL!!
time it takes for pirating to become invalid?
how long before the only PVP will be done station camping a high sec war target in JITA ??
Your ship doesn't have to drop the probes where they scan. You can move them after they are dropped anywhere in the system.
ok if this is true i no longer hate CCP as much... as this would actually make probing current hard to get mission runners easier... so if i understand it correctly i can now get a probe to warp anywhare i want I (using the solor system map)??... making my ship scanner actually needed other than pin-pointing range of the target but now degree also...
i hope this is the case.. i will get onto the test server asap... now i just hope they fix the botched missile patch...
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2009.02.22 16:51:00 -
[325]
Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 22/02/2009 16:51:52
Found another wormhole (in losec) with a base sig strength of 0.26%.
So if you see one of those 0.16s or 0.26s then its probably a wormhole
It also appears that the same wormhole back into empire space is (always?) of 0.40% base strength.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.22 16:54:00 -
[326]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 22/02/2009 16:55:20
Originally by: Miss Moonwych
edit2 My working hypothesis:
- 0.40% wormholes lead to empire - 0.26% wormholes lead to unkown space - 0.20% wormholes lead to 0.0 - 0.16% wormholes lead to harder unkown space
Found two wormholes leading to w-space (actually was a single system connected both to highsec and 0.0). Both WHs leading to k-space (highsec and empire) were 0.40%, while from k-space the situation was the following:
High sec: - 0.26% wormhole lead to unknown space (judging from the stuff inside was some of the "easy" space).
0.0 (HMF-9D, fountain) - 0.40% wormhole lead to SAME unknown space of WH above.....
What i found in the unknown system were several anomalies with sleepers in them. Couldn't try them due to time constraints, but in case someone wants to try it, the WH in HMF-9D wil be stable for more than one day from now, so you have time to go there and scan for it.
Unfortunately the 0.40% in 0.0 leading to unknown space seem to not fit your hypothesis. Still... were are you scanning? 0.0, lowsec, highsec?
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.22 17:09:00 -
[327]
Another bug. Reconnected probes do not get back your character's bonuses.
Already bug reported.
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King Hopy
Interstellar eXodus Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 17:30:00 -
[328]
How are you able to scan for stuff atm as it seems the solar system map is bugged and doesnt show where the results are?
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Contralto
Snark Associates
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Posted - 2009.02.22 17:39:00 -
[329]
Edited by: Contralto on 22/02/2009 17:42:38 after you get the 4 probes close enough, the 4 probe results in the control panel aggregate to one and this is right clickable.
There is no indicator on the map.
Just takes a lot of micro management of the probes.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.22 18:06:00 -
[330]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Hum. My spreadsheet disagrees with yours, by the look of it
For logistics ships I'm getting (alphabetically): 1.135645398 1.21506116 1.094265606 1.1880598
hold on to that thought and throw in a single 96% eccm - run it against your usual perfect-skills-perfect-fitting numbers... i understand you avoiding the issue but i will bring a griffin toon, skilled to EW I for 1 local eccm and 3 casters. farming w/o cloak yipeeeh - putting the gist back into logistics |
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