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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:35:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Selim on 19/08/2004 06:38:36 I feel that there is no need to explain in detail that having a MWD on frigate should not be a no-brainer module as it is now. Right now you fit a mwd, or you dont fight. Because if you do you're going to die to any missiles, you will be swarmed by frigates who DO have mwds and will web and warp scramble and destroy you. This isnt right; there should never be a module which MUST be used. Not even close to it. I'd like to be able to fit a frigate for fighting that doesnt have a mwd and expect it to survive a 1v1 with another frig, interceptor, cruiser or battleship or what have you.
What I'd like to see done: - is have the missile agility changes implemented like they were supposed to over a month ago... This would allow a frigate to avoid being pummeled by missiles without needing to fit a mwd to try and outrun them. BIG plus for frigates and frigate setups. Cruises, Torps, and heavy missiles (to a lesser extent) would have serious trouble hitting a frigate, not because they cant match the speed but because of their agility. You'd still be able to be hit, but only if you're moving in a straight line. Rockets and Light missiles would become even more useful. - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible. Only frigates can do this currently, cruisers and battleships cant, so why should frigates be able to run a mwd constantly? This would help alleviate the balance between a frigate with a mwd and one without, without completely nerfing the thing.
- increasing the powergrid to 25 for a mwd. This would reduce the offensive power of a mwding frigate so that it can only fit the weaker weapons, again giving a bonus to non-mwd using frigates.
This wouldnt nerf frigate pilots at all - as a matter of fact, it would HELP frigate pilots. We wouldnt need to fit a mwd anymore but we'd still be able to, if we want to make a catch frigate with a stasis web + warp scrambler. It would make afterburners useful, we wouldnt have to outrun heavy missiles. We may even start deciding to fit a shield booster to defend against rockets and lights, which would be fast enough and agile enough to hit us.
This encourages more diversity in frigate setups and gets rid of the boring mwd no-brainer, replacing it with a new MWD that you can fit if you want the benefits of extreme speed, with the drawback of less cap, shields, and offensive power.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Selim on 19/08/2004 06:38:36 I feel that there is no need to explain in detail that having a MWD on frigate should not be a no-brainer module as it is now. Right now you fit a mwd, or you dont fight. Because if you do you're going to die to any missiles, you will be swarmed by frigates who DO have mwds and will web and warp scramble and destroy you. This isnt right; there should never be a module which MUST be used. Not even close to it. I'd like to be able to fit a frigate for fighting that doesnt have a mwd and expect it to survive a 1v1 with another frig, interceptor, cruiser or battleship or what have you.
What I'd like to see done: - is have the missile agility changes implemented like they were supposed to over a month ago... This would allow a frigate to avoid being pummeled by missiles without needing to fit a mwd to try and outrun them. BIG plus for frigates and frigate setups. Cruises, Torps, and heavy missiles (to a lesser extent) would have serious trouble hitting a frigate, not because they cant match the speed but because of their agility. You'd still be able to be hit, but only if you're moving in a straight line. Rockets and Light missiles would become even more useful. - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible. Only frigates can do this currently, cruisers and battleships cant, so why should frigates be able to run a mwd constantly? This would help alleviate the balance between a frigate with a mwd and one without, without completely nerfing the thing.
- increasing the powergrid to 25 for a mwd. This would reduce the offensive power of a mwding frigate so that it can only fit the weaker weapons, again giving a bonus to non-mwd using frigates.
This wouldnt nerf frigate pilots at all - as a matter of fact, it would HELP frigate pilots. We wouldnt need to fit a mwd anymore but we'd still be able to, if we want to make a catch frigate with a stasis web + warp scrambler. It would make afterburners useful, we wouldnt have to outrun heavy missiles. We may even start deciding to fit a shield booster to defend against rockets and lights, which would be fast enough and agile enough to hit us.
This encourages more diversity in frigate setups and gets rid of the boring mwd no-brainer, replacing it with a new MWD that you can fit if you want the benefits of extreme speed, with the drawback of less cap, shields, and offensive power.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:43:00 -
[3]
but things would go soooo slow then :-( Ive tried tech II 1mn ABs on a rifter, and the thing is incredibely slow. I could never stand travelling like that, or engaging in battle at such slow speeds. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:43:00 -
[4]
but things would go soooo slow then :-( Ive tried tech II 1mn ABs on a rifter, and the thing is incredibely slow. I could never stand travelling like that, or engaging in battle at such slow speeds. ................. |
Logan West
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:44:00 -
[5]
Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
"I solemnly swear never to camp a spawn, to twink a mule, to farm a mob. I will not beg for nerfs, or macro for money. I am a gamer, and I swear to have fun."
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Logan West
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:44:00 -
[6]
Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
"I solemnly swear never to camp a spawn, to twink a mule, to farm a mob. I will not beg for nerfs, or macro for money. I am a gamer, and I swear to have fun."
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Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:46:00 -
[7]
well, if they are "supposed" to be fast, just up their base speed...
make frigs base speeds 2-3x higher Interstellat Cartographic League - Cen Varis |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:46:00 -
[8]
well, if they are "supposed" to be fast, just up their base speed...
make frigs base speeds 2-3x higher Interstellat Cartographic League - Cen Varis |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cen Varis well, if they are "supposed" to be fast, just up their base speed...
make frigs base speeds 2-3x higher
Then they would never get hit by turrets, ever. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 06:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cen Varis well, if they are "supposed" to be fast, just up their base speed...
make frigs base speeds 2-3x higher
Then they would never get hit by turrets, ever. ................. |
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
Its a no brainer module because people love speed in frigates. Otherwise people wouldnt use them, plus Im sure assault frigates will change that no brainer MWD need, as the shield tanking frigates would suffer too much to fit a MWD. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
Its a no brainer module because people love speed in frigates. Otherwise people wouldnt use them, plus Im sure assault frigates will change that no brainer MWD need, as the shield tanking frigates would suffer too much to fit a MWD. ................. |
Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
Its a no brainer module because people love speed in frigates. Otherwise people wouldnt use them, plus Im sure assault frigates will change that no brainer MWD need, as the shield tanking frigates would suffer too much to fit a MWD.
Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Selim
Originally by: Logan West Then frigs would be worthless agaisnt cruisers again. They are "supposed" to be fast.
How would they be useless against cruisers? And they are fast. But MWD's should NOT be a no brainer module. If they'd be useless, shouldnt we try and rectify that? That is exactly what I'm saying.
Its a no brainer module because people love speed in frigates. Otherwise people wouldnt use them, plus Im sure assault frigates will change that no brainer MWD need, as the shield tanking frigates would suffer too much to fit a MWD.
Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Selim Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
Thing is you havent tried an assault frigate yet :-P
And secondly, assaults frigates have extreme range, any interceptor that trys to stay out of webber range will still easily get hit by the assaults turrets because of the nice 50% optimal bonus the ships get, and the fact that they can tank like crazy(even with their limited CPU)
Thing with Frigates and MWDs, no... a frigate with a MWD will not kill you. It completely depends on your fighting style. Also Yeah your right, missiles will instgank any non MWDing frigate which sucks... Assault frigates *might* be able to deal with it though by having the missiles only do 30dmg to them per hit with their 90%+ Resistances(If you can get them that high with their limited CPU) ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 07:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Selim Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
Thing is you havent tried an assault frigate yet :-P
And secondly, assaults frigates have extreme range, any interceptor that trys to stay out of webber range will still easily get hit by the assaults turrets because of the nice 50% optimal bonus the ships get, and the fact that they can tank like crazy(even with their limited CPU)
Thing with Frigates and MWDs, no... a frigate with a MWD will not kill you. It completely depends on your fighting style. Also Yeah your right, missiles will instgank any non MWDing frigate which sucks... Assault frigates *might* be able to deal with it though by having the missiles only do 30dmg to them per hit with their 90%+ Resistances(If you can get them that high with their limited CPU) ................. |
Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.08.19 08:33:00 -
[19]
The 500% increase to sig is penelty enough for MWDs. We need to have -25% shields/cap and high fitting reqs OR 500% sig increase. Not all of them. It's super overkill to have THREE penelties on one item.
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.08.19 08:33:00 -
[20]
The 500% increase to sig is penelty enough for MWDs. We need to have -25% shields/cap and high fitting reqs OR 500% sig increase. Not all of them. It's super overkill to have THREE penelties on one item.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 08:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lansfear The 500% increase to sig is penelty enough for MWDs. We need to have -25% shields/cap and high fitting reqs OR 500% sig increase. Not all of them. It's super overkill to have THREE penelties on one item.
not really.
500% sig penalty is needed because of tracking changes added to turrets.
25% cap penalty is so the damned things cant be run 24/7 while tanking at the same time
25% shield penalty... is probally a relic from before the 500% sig penalty was implemented... it hurts shield tankers waay to much, especially people who want to shield tank frigats and I think out of all the penalties this one should be removed. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 08:36:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lansfear The 500% increase to sig is penelty enough for MWDs. We need to have -25% shields/cap and high fitting reqs OR 500% sig increase. Not all of them. It's super overkill to have THREE penelties on one item.
not really.
500% sig penalty is needed because of tracking changes added to turrets.
25% cap penalty is so the damned things cant be run 24/7 while tanking at the same time
25% shield penalty... is probally a relic from before the 500% sig penalty was implemented... it hurts shield tankers waay to much, especially people who want to shield tank frigats and I think out of all the penalties this one should be removed. ................. |
Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.08.19 09:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Selim - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible.
Too funny! Now, what was this post about again?
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.08.19 09:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Selim - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible.
Too funny! Now, what was this post about again?
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Broc Vallion
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Posted - 2004.08.19 10:37:00 -
[25]
Guns are a must have too for that matter..........how do we get rid of them and still fight?
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Broc Vallion
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Posted - 2004.08.19 10:37:00 -
[26]
Guns are a must have too for that matter..........how do we get rid of them and still fight?
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.08.19 10:49:00 -
[27]
although the missile aginlty will not be implemented (deemed not workable), the "Damage based on target SigRadius" proposal will help the Assault frigates immensely. Not needing to strap on an MWD, they have a sigradius of around 30, which will ensure that big missiles do very little damage. Combined with their tanking porential, missiles shouldn't be an issue.
That's the theory, in any case.
Join the IC! |
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.08.19 10:49:00 -
[28]
although the missile aginlty will not be implemented (deemed not workable), the "Damage based on target SigRadius" proposal will help the Assault frigates immensely. Not needing to strap on an MWD, they have a sigradius of around 30, which will ensure that big missiles do very little damage. Combined with their tanking porential, missiles shouldn't be an issue.
That's the theory, in any case.
Join the IC! |
Khe Zen'al'Zar
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Posted - 2004.08.19 12:01:00 -
[29]
i dont agree with the PG increase, you sacrifice a med slot anyway
but, i agree with changing missiles so an MWD/10mn ab is no longer a must have, and boosting the cap need so you cant run it 24/7, atleast not without heavy problems (high skills + 2-3 relays)
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Khe Zen'al'Zar
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Posted - 2004.08.19 12:01:00 -
[30]
i dont agree with the PG increase, you sacrifice a med slot anyway
but, i agree with changing missiles so an MWD/10mn ab is no longer a must have, and boosting the cap need so you cant run it 24/7, atleast not without heavy problems (high skills + 2-3 relays)
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.19 12:17:00 -
[31]
Frigs can go from 600-1200 with just a 1 MN AB if you have high skills. those speeds are not slow people are just used to the 2-3k speeds. ---
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Shade Widow
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Posted - 2004.08.19 12:17:00 -
[32]
Frigs can go from 600-1200 with just a 1 MN AB if you have high skills. those speeds are not slow people are just used to the 2-3k speeds. ---
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Chith
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Posted - 2004.08.19 14:46:00 -
[33]
I rarely fit an mwd on my frigates. Not worth it. I would support just getting rid of mwds altogether while bumping the speed of frigates and a cruiser or two just a little, though. Not too much. --- The Tarsis Shriners |
Chith
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Posted - 2004.08.19 14:46:00 -
[34]
I rarely fit an mwd on my frigates. Not worth it. I would support just getting rid of mwds altogether while bumping the speed of frigates and a cruiser or two just a little, though. Not too much. --- The Tarsis Shriners |
Mendel Black
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Posted - 2004.08.19 15:19:00 -
[35]
Leave MWDs alone.
Lets stop asking for stuff to be nerfed and get them to fix all the things that are broken and add all the stuff that is still missing from the game. ----------- Never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down to thier level then beat you with their greater experience. |
Mendel Black
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Posted - 2004.08.19 15:19:00 -
[36]
Leave MWDs alone.
Lets stop asking for stuff to be nerfed and get them to fix all the things that are broken and add all the stuff that is still missing from the game. ----------- Never argue with an idiot, they will only drag you down to thier level then beat you with their greater experience. |
bAExxARn
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Posted - 2004.08.19 16:24:00 -
[37]
WHINE
YAAAAARR! |
bAExxARn
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Posted - 2004.08.19 16:24:00 -
[38]
WHINE
YAAAAARR! |
Shenrogar
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Posted - 2004.08.19 17:54:00 -
[39]
any ship can beat any ship its a matter of your own skill, if you people would stop whining all the time you would realize you just need to train a bunch of skills then you would finally be able to hit those frigates, either that or your complaining because you cant use long range weapons to kill a frig, the mwd is balanced by it 3 penelties, if you want to go hunt people in frigates then get small guns that have a high tracking speed and are capable of hitting them AND QUIT ASKING FOR ALL THOSE DAMNED NERFS all i read on these forums is nerf this and nerf that, JUST SHUT UP QUIT MOANING AND TRAIN THEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING GO AHEAD AND KILL SOMETHING
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Shenrogar
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Posted - 2004.08.19 17:54:00 -
[40]
any ship can beat any ship its a matter of your own skill, if you people would stop whining all the time you would realize you just need to train a bunch of skills then you would finally be able to hit those frigates, either that or your complaining because you cant use long range weapons to kill a frig, the mwd is balanced by it 3 penelties, if you want to go hunt people in frigates then get small guns that have a high tracking speed and are capable of hitting them AND QUIT ASKING FOR ALL THOSE DAMNED NERFS all i read on these forums is nerf this and nerf that, JUST SHUT UP QUIT MOANING AND TRAIN THEN WHEN YOU FEEL LIKE ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING GO AHEAD AND KILL SOMETHING
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.08.19 19:52:00 -
[41]
Microwarps are all the rage, drones have them, npc's have them, cruisers and frigates have them, Ravens have them. Maybe we should just make it so that all ships have a built in MWD eh? might as well since the devs have realized that even npc rats need MWD.
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.08.19 19:52:00 -
[42]
Microwarps are all the rage, drones have them, npc's have them, cruisers and frigates have them, Ravens have them. Maybe we should just make it so that all ships have a built in MWD eh? might as well since the devs have realized that even npc rats need MWD.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 19:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Orestes although the missile aginlty will not be implemented (deemed not workable), the "Damage based on target SigRadius" proposal will help the Assault frigates immensely. Not needing to strap on an MWD, they have a sigradius of around 30, which will ensure that big missiles do very little damage. Combined with their tanking porential, missiles shouldn't be an issue.
That's the theory, in any case.
This is true. But everyone's going to fit a MWD anyway, because an interceptor with a MWD attacking an assault frigate without one will clobber it because it cant get away or keep in range. There needs to be some noticeable penalty when activating a 1mn mwd.
Note to the 'stop the nerf' crowd - I'm a frigate pilot. I want to be able to fly a frigate without needing a MWD.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.19 19:56:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Orestes although the missile aginlty will not be implemented (deemed not workable), the "Damage based on target SigRadius" proposal will help the Assault frigates immensely. Not needing to strap on an MWD, they have a sigradius of around 30, which will ensure that big missiles do very little damage. Combined with their tanking porential, missiles shouldn't be an issue.
That's the theory, in any case.
This is true. But everyone's going to fit a MWD anyway, because an interceptor with a MWD attacking an assault frigate without one will clobber it because it cant get away or keep in range. There needs to be some noticeable penalty when activating a 1mn mwd.
Note to the 'stop the nerf' crowd - I'm a frigate pilot. I want to be able to fly a frigate without needing a MWD.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 19:58:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Selim
This is true. But everyone's going to fit a MWD anyway, because an interceptor with a MWD attacking an assault frigate without one will clobber it because it cant get away or keep in range. There needs to be some noticeable penalty when activating a 1mn mwd.
Assault frigate will always be in range to hit the interceptor because of the nice range bonus it gets. Only problem is the enyo, but that can fit a MWD too. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 19:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Selim
This is true. But everyone's going to fit a MWD anyway, because an interceptor with a MWD attacking an assault frigate without one will clobber it because it cant get away or keep in range. There needs to be some noticeable penalty when activating a 1mn mwd.
Assault frigate will always be in range to hit the interceptor because of the nice range bonus it gets. Only problem is the enyo, but that can fit a MWD too. ................. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.08.19 20:13:00 -
[47]
Nah Cruz. That harpy with four railguns isn't going to land a scratch on an interceptor orbiting at close range.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.08.19 20:13:00 -
[48]
Nah Cruz. That harpy with four railguns isn't going to land a scratch on an interceptor orbiting at close range.
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Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 20:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Nah Cruz. That harpy with four railguns isn't going to land a scratch on an interceptor orbiting at close range.
You forget that mostly all assaults are going to be using the same weapons as interceptors... so if the interceptor can hit you, then you can hit the interceptor. Its also much easier for you to hit the interceptor with a 230 sig radius. then it is for the interceptor to hit you while its going 2km/s with your 31 sig radius. ................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 20:27:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Nah Cruz. That harpy with four railguns isn't going to land a scratch on an interceptor orbiting at close range.
You forget that mostly all assaults are going to be using the same weapons as interceptors... so if the interceptor can hit you, then you can hit the interceptor. Its also much easier for you to hit the interceptor with a 230 sig radius. then it is for the interceptor to hit you while its going 2km/s with your 31 sig radius. ................. |
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Spec 593357629
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Posted - 2004.08.19 20:48:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Spec 593357629 on 19/08/2004 20:52:12 You can hit frigates with turrets and mwd but you have to mount high tracking guns
im definately adding to this
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
And i got a lovely 800k insurance check too thatks that really helps me pay for it now olny umm 8 mill more to go lol.
I Would like to petition for my time spent traing thses POS cus they aint good for **** anymore.
THAKX ccp you rock why dodnt you just remove frigates all together scince you really dont seem to like them anyways
combat:Your Civilian Gatling Rail Gun hits Amarr Sentry Gun, doing 0.2 damage.
Something to listen to while mineing |
Spec 593357629
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Posted - 2004.08.19 20:48:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Spec 593357629 on 19/08/2004 20:52:12 You can hit frigates with turrets and mwd but you have to mount high tracking guns
im definately adding to this
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
And i got a lovely 800k insurance check too thatks that really helps me pay for it now olny umm 8 mill more to go lol.
I Would like to petition for my time spent traing thses POS cus they aint good for **** anymore.
THAKX ccp you rock why dodnt you just remove frigates all together scince you really dont seem to like them anyways
combat:Your Civilian Gatling Rail Gun hits Amarr Sentry Gun, doing 0.2 damage.
Something to listen to while mineing |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.08.19 21:02:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s......... ................. |
Cruz
|
Posted - 2004.08.19 21:02:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s......... ................. |
Mujun Kross
|
Posted - 2004.08.19 23:02:00 -
[55]
A mwd is not a required piece of equipment on a frigate. If you feel that it is necessary to have one and that is the only way you can survive then you need to fly something else until you get your skills up. . . . "Come now, my child, if we were planning to harm you, do you think we'd be lurking here, beside the path, in the very darkest part of the forest?" -Kenneth Patchen "But Even So" |
Mujun Kross
|
Posted - 2004.08.19 23:02:00 -
[56]
A mwd is not a required piece of equipment on a frigate. If you feel that it is necessary to have one and that is the only way you can survive then you need to fly something else until you get your skills up. . . . "Come now, my child, if we were planning to harm you, do you think we'd be lurking here, beside the path, in the very darkest part of the forest?" -Kenneth Patchen "But Even So" |
Selim
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 06:08:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Mujun Kross A mwd is not a required piece of equipment on a frigate. If you feel that it is necessary to have one and that is the only way you can survive then you need to fly something else until you get your skills up.
K, come to pureblind in a frigate without mwd, I'll come in mine with mwd, and you can show me what you mean.
|
Selim
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 06:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mujun Kross A mwd is not a required piece of equipment on a frigate. If you feel that it is necessary to have one and that is the only way you can survive then you need to fly something else until you get your skills up.
K, come to pureblind in a frigate without mwd, I'll come in mine with mwd, and you can show me what you mean.
|
PASTOR TROY
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 06:35:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Spec 593357629 Edited by: Spec 593357629 on 19/08/2004 20:52:12 You can hit frigates with turrets and mwd but you have to mount high tracking guns
im definately adding to this
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
And i got a lovely 800k insurance check too thatks that really helps me pay for it now olny umm 8 mill more to go lol.
I Would like to petition for my time spent traing thses POS cus they aint good for **** anymore.
THAKX ccp you rock why dodnt you just remove frigates all together scince you really dont seem to like them anyways
um you are joking right? Almost every nerf in the game in the last few months have been to keep frigates alive. Gun tracking, missile nerfing, sig radius,Drone nerfing. Now the next generation frigates will have uber firepower and tanking ability along with all the nerfs to protect it. What else do you need ..god mode button?
|
PASTOR TROY
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 06:35:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Spec 593357629 Edited by: Spec 593357629 on 19/08/2004 20:52:12 You can hit frigates with turrets and mwd but you have to mount high tracking guns
im definately adding to this
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
And i got a lovely 800k insurance check too thatks that really helps me pay for it now olny umm 8 mill more to go lol.
I Would like to petition for my time spent traing thses POS cus they aint good for **** anymore.
THAKX ccp you rock why dodnt you just remove frigates all together scince you really dont seem to like them anyways
um you are joking right? Almost every nerf in the game in the last few months have been to keep frigates alive. Gun tracking, missile nerfing, sig radius,Drone nerfing. Now the next generation frigates will have uber firepower and tanking ability along with all the nerfs to protect it. What else do you need ..god mode button?
|
|
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 08:00:00 -
[61]
First of all YES. Teh mwd is a "no brainer module"
But plz dont nerf the mwd!!!! It is good the way it is!
hehehe
B U T
We do need the missile changes because this will also change the need of a mwd, since it will be less usefull and we may see more different setups instead of this "no brainer" module. Oversized AB's then need to be changed of course to keep the balance again!!! Otherwise the small vessels are simply overpowerd and we want to achieve balance right?
SO DONT NERF THE MWD BUT GIVE US THE MISSILE CHANGES CUZ THEY WILL SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 08:00:00 -
[62]
First of all YES. Teh mwd is a "no brainer module"
But plz dont nerf the mwd!!!! It is good the way it is!
hehehe
B U T
We do need the missile changes because this will also change the need of a mwd, since it will be less usefull and we may see more different setups instead of this "no brainer" module. Oversized AB's then need to be changed of course to keep the balance again!!! Otherwise the small vessels are simply overpowerd and we want to achieve balance right?
SO DONT NERF THE MWD BUT GIVE US THE MISSILE CHANGES CUZ THEY WILL SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. Greetings Grim |
ActiveX
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 09:06:00 -
[63]
To me, mwds are just a quick fix mod. Why not just speed all the ships up? ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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ActiveX
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 09:06:00 -
[64]
To me, mwds are just a quick fix mod. Why not just speed all the ships up? ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
|
Ordo Abchao
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 19:21:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Selim Edited by: Selim on 19/08/2004 06:38:36 I feel that there is no need to explain in detail that having a MWD on frigate should not be a no-brainer module as it is now. Right now you fit a mwd, or you dont fight. Because if you do you're going to die to any missiles, you will be swarmed by frigates who DO have mwds and will web and warp scramble and destroy you. This isnt right; there should never be a module which MUST be used. Not even close to it. I'd like to be able to fit a frigate for fighting that doesnt have a mwd and expect it to survive a 1v1 with another frig, interceptor, cruiser or battleship or what have you.
What I'd like to see done: - is have the missile agility changes implemented like they were supposed to over a month ago... This would allow a frigate to avoid being pummeled by missiles without needing to fit a mwd to try and outrun them. BIG plus for frigates and frigate setups. Cruises, Torps, and heavy missiles (to a lesser extent) would have serious trouble hitting a frigate, not because they cant match the speed but because of their agility. You'd still be able to be hit, but only if you're moving in a straight line. Rockets and Light missiles would become even more useful. - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible. Only frigates can do this currently, cruisers and battleships cant, so why should frigates be able to run a mwd constantly? This would help alleviate the balance between a frigate with a mwd and one without, without completely nerfing the thing.
- increasing the powergrid to 25 for a mwd. This would reduce the offensive power of a mwding frigate so that it can only fit the weaker weapons, again giving a bonus to non-mwd using frigates.
This wouldnt nerf frigate pilots at all - as a matter of fact, it would HELP frigate pilots. We wouldnt need to fit a mwd anymore but we'd still be able to, if we want to make a catch frigate with a stasis web + warp scrambler. It would make afterburners useful, we wouldnt have to outrun heavy missiles. We may even start deciding to fit a shield booster to defend against rockets and lights, which would be fast enough and agile enough to hit us.
This encourages more diversity in frigate setups and gets rid of the boring mwd no-brainer, replacing it with a new MWD that you can fit if you want the benefits of extreme speed, with the drawback of less cap, shields, and offensive power.
A few points
1) bs' must have a shield booster or armor repairer to live, they are no brainer modules, do you want to take them out aswell?
2) The sig radius penalty is a big penalty because if you are using a gun based frigate with out an mwd vs one with an mwd you will completly destroy him because your small guns will always hit while his will not(missiles are a different story).
3) Any cruiser or bs can run one or even two mwd's constanly, i've seen it done before, and i have done it myself.
4)Afterburners are the second most used module in the game, people use them on thier frigates and cruisers all the time to avoid the penalties for a hit to speed and powergrid.
5) They are called interceptors for a reason, they are meant to be quick and lock down ships.
6) The mwd is the most nerfed module in the game yet it still endures, even with heavy penalties. Why would you want to kill an already battered and bruised module?
Order out of Chaos |
Ordo Abchao
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 19:21:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Selim Edited by: Selim on 19/08/2004 06:38:36 I feel that there is no need to explain in detail that having a MWD on frigate should not be a no-brainer module as it is now. Right now you fit a mwd, or you dont fight. Because if you do you're going to die to any missiles, you will be swarmed by frigates who DO have mwds and will web and warp scramble and destroy you. This isnt right; there should never be a module which MUST be used. Not even close to it. I'd like to be able to fit a frigate for fighting that doesnt have a mwd and expect it to survive a 1v1 with another frig, interceptor, cruiser or battleship or what have you.
What I'd like to see done: - is have the missile agility changes implemented like they were supposed to over a month ago... This would allow a frigate to avoid being pummeled by missiles without needing to fit a mwd to try and outrun them. BIG plus for frigates and frigate setups. Cruises, Torps, and heavy missiles (to a lesser extent) would have serious trouble hitting a frigate, not because they cant match the speed but because of their agility. You'd still be able to be hit, but only if you're moving in a straight line. Rockets and Light missiles would become even more useful. - increase the capacitor usage of a 1mn MWD such that running one till pigs fly over the freezing Styx is not possible. Only frigates can do this currently, cruisers and battleships cant, so why should frigates be able to run a mwd constantly? This would help alleviate the balance between a frigate with a mwd and one without, without completely nerfing the thing.
- increasing the powergrid to 25 for a mwd. This would reduce the offensive power of a mwding frigate so that it can only fit the weaker weapons, again giving a bonus to non-mwd using frigates.
This wouldnt nerf frigate pilots at all - as a matter of fact, it would HELP frigate pilots. We wouldnt need to fit a mwd anymore but we'd still be able to, if we want to make a catch frigate with a stasis web + warp scrambler. It would make afterburners useful, we wouldnt have to outrun heavy missiles. We may even start deciding to fit a shield booster to defend against rockets and lights, which would be fast enough and agile enough to hit us.
This encourages more diversity in frigate setups and gets rid of the boring mwd no-brainer, replacing it with a new MWD that you can fit if you want the benefits of extreme speed, with the drawback of less cap, shields, and offensive power.
A few points
1) bs' must have a shield booster or armor repairer to live, they are no brainer modules, do you want to take them out aswell?
2) The sig radius penalty is a big penalty because if you are using a gun based frigate with out an mwd vs one with an mwd you will completly destroy him because your small guns will always hit while his will not(missiles are a different story).
3) Any cruiser or bs can run one or even two mwd's constanly, i've seen it done before, and i have done it myself.
4)Afterburners are the second most used module in the game, people use them on thier frigates and cruisers all the time to avoid the penalties for a hit to speed and powergrid.
5) They are called interceptors for a reason, they are meant to be quick and lock down ships.
6) The mwd is the most nerfed module in the game yet it still endures, even with heavy penalties. Why would you want to kill an already battered and bruised module?
Order out of Chaos |
Morikai Acler
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 20:42:00 -
[67]
Eh, they could easily get around this probly by rasing the PG requirements by 2 on the regular sized AB's. Then have the Tech 1 AB's give 100% boost to Base max speed with skills added. And the Tech2 could give a 150% to 200% speed boost to base max speed after skills are applied. Nowhere near as fast as an MWD, but still good for ships like assault frigs, and the other tank frigs like the Merlin and Punisher. Hell there is a good chance that if they worked like that, ceptors would probably use them too.
|
Morikai Acler
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 20:42:00 -
[68]
Eh, they could easily get around this probly by rasing the PG requirements by 2 on the regular sized AB's. Then have the Tech 1 AB's give 100% boost to Base max speed with skills added. And the Tech2 could give a 150% to 200% speed boost to base max speed after skills are applied. Nowhere near as fast as an MWD, but still good for ships like assault frigs, and the other tank frigs like the Merlin and Punisher. Hell there is a good chance that if they worked like that, ceptors would probably use them too.
|
The IMP
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 21:19:00 -
[69]
i just noticed i reach 12 km/s with 2 1mn mwd :|
|
The IMP
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 21:19:00 -
[70]
i just noticed i reach 12 km/s with 2 1mn mwd :|
|
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Selim
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 21:41:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ordo Abchao A few points
1) bs' must have a shield booster or armor repairer to live, they are no brainer modules, do you want to take them out aswell?
2) The sig radius penalty is a big penalty because if you are using a gun based frigate with out an mwd vs one with an mwd you will completly destroy him because your small guns will always hit while his will not(missiles are a different story).
3) Any cruiser or bs can run one or even two mwd's constanly, i've seen it done before, and i have done it myself.
4)Afterburners are the second most used module in the game, people use them on thier frigates and cruisers all the time to avoid the penalties for a hit to speed and powergrid.
5) They are called interceptors for a reason, they are meant to be quick and lock down ships.
6) The mwd is the most nerfed module in the game yet it still endures, even with heavy penalties. Why would you want to kill an already battered and bruised module?
[/quote
Well you do see battleships flying around with no defenses alot, namely the megapulse geddon with 8 heatsink II's, they kick butt. But you're right in the non extreme cases.
Interceptors are meant to be quick yes, they arent meant to deal so much damage (Taranis...).
And you are talking about the oversized afterburners. I meant the CORRECT size for each. A 1mn afterburner should be much better to use for dogfighting and avoiding gunfire than a 1mn mwd, but its not, as any frigate with a 1mn mwd or 10mn afterburner will kick your ass, and missiles will, too.
|
Selim
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 21:41:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Ordo Abchao A few points
1) bs' must have a shield booster or armor repairer to live, they are no brainer modules, do you want to take them out aswell?
2) The sig radius penalty is a big penalty because if you are using a gun based frigate with out an mwd vs one with an mwd you will completly destroy him because your small guns will always hit while his will not(missiles are a different story).
3) Any cruiser or bs can run one or even two mwd's constanly, i've seen it done before, and i have done it myself.
4)Afterburners are the second most used module in the game, people use them on thier frigates and cruisers all the time to avoid the penalties for a hit to speed and powergrid.
5) They are called interceptors for a reason, they are meant to be quick and lock down ships.
6) The mwd is the most nerfed module in the game yet it still endures, even with heavy penalties. Why would you want to kill an already battered and bruised module?
[/quote
Well you do see battleships flying around with no defenses alot, namely the megapulse geddon with 8 heatsink II's, they kick butt. But you're right in the non extreme cases.
Interceptors are meant to be quick yes, they arent meant to deal so much damage (Taranis...).
And you are talking about the oversized afterburners. I meant the CORRECT size for each. A 1mn afterburner should be much better to use for dogfighting and avoiding gunfire than a 1mn mwd, but its not, as any frigate with a 1mn mwd or 10mn afterburner will kick your ass, and missiles will, too.
|
Cruz
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 22:46:00 -
[73]
Originally by: ActiveX To me, mwds are just a quick fix mod. Why not just speed all the ships up?
Read my previous posts please...
Because of gun tracking, thats why. ................. |
Cruz
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 22:46:00 -
[74]
Originally by: ActiveX To me, mwds are just a quick fix mod. Why not just speed all the ships up?
Read my previous posts please...
Because of gun tracking, thats why. ................. |
ActiveX
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 23:12:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: ActiveX To me, mwds are just a quick fix mod. Why not just speed all the ships up?
Read my previous posts please...
Because of gun tracking, thats why.
If that was a good enough reason, then why would mwds or ABs exist at all. ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
|
ActiveX
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 23:12:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: ActiveX To me, mwds are just a quick fix mod. Why not just speed all the ships up?
Read my previous posts please...
Because of gun tracking, thats why.
If that was a good enough reason, then why would mwds or ABs exist at all. ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
|
Cruz
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 23:38:00 -
[77]
Originally by: ActiveX
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: ActiveX To me, mwds are just a quick fix mod. Why not just speed all the ships up?
Read my previous posts please...
Because of gun tracking, thats why.
If that was a good enough reason, then why would mwds or ABs exist at all.
MWDS give a 500% signature radius increase too
And most people dont use regular ABs because they think they are useless, when infact they are very useful. ................. |
Cruz
|
Posted - 2004.08.20 23:38:00 -
[78]
Originally by: ActiveX
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: ActiveX To me, mwds are just a quick fix mod. Why not just speed all the ships up?
Read my previous posts please...
Because of gun tracking, thats why.
If that was a good enough reason, then why would mwds or ABs exist at all.
MWDS give a 500% signature radius increase too
And most people dont use regular ABs because they think they are useless, when infact they are very useful. ................. |
ActiveX
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 02:55:00 -
[79]
I use an AB II on my Stabber, I get well over 500 m/s with it.
The mwd sig radius thing is alright, but too me the mwd is flawed in its concept more than its application. ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
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ActiveX
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 02:55:00 -
[80]
I use an AB II on my Stabber, I get well over 500 m/s with it.
The mwd sig radius thing is alright, but too me the mwd is flawed in its concept more than its application. ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000
|
|
Lansfear
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 06:37:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s.........
You don't read very well, or you only fly BS's.
No mwd = missles pwn you.
With mwd = guns pwn you.
Its a loss loss situation. THis is why I only fight other frig/ceptors now, it's to horribly imbalanced.
|
Lansfear
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 06:37:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s.........
You don't read very well, or you only fly BS's.
No mwd = missles pwn you.
With mwd = guns pwn you.
Its a loss loss situation. THis is why I only fight other frig/ceptors now, it's to horribly imbalanced.
|
Cruz
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 06:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Lansfear
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s.........
You don't read very well, or you only fly BS's.
No mwd = missles pwn you.
With mwd = guns pwn you.
Its a loss loss situation. THis is why I only fight other frig/ceptors now, it's to horribly imbalanced.
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever. ................. |
Cruz
|
Posted - 2004.08.21 06:58:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Lansfear
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s.........
You don't read very well, or you only fly BS's.
No mwd = missles pwn you.
With mwd = guns pwn you.
Its a loss loss situation. THis is why I only fight other frig/ceptors now, it's to horribly imbalanced.
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever. ................. |
HavokTBP
|
Posted - 2004.08.22 12:53:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Lansfear
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s.........
You don't read very well, or you only fly BS's.
No mwd = missles pwn you.
With mwd = guns pwn you.
Its a loss loss situation. THis is why I only fight other frig/ceptors now, it's to horribly imbalanced.
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever.
Well they shouldn't hit a frigate ever anyways "mwd or not" considering all the damn tracking nerf mods they've done on guns.......
Dual MWD's are the ownage!!
Member of the Curse Alliance before the Corruption Leader of The Black Plague.
|
HavokTBP
|
Posted - 2004.08.22 12:53:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Lansfear
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s.........
You don't read very well, or you only fly BS's.
No mwd = missles pwn you.
With mwd = guns pwn you.
Its a loss loss situation. THis is why I only fight other frig/ceptors now, it's to horribly imbalanced.
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever.
Well they shouldn't hit a frigate ever anyways "mwd or not" considering all the damn tracking nerf mods they've done on guns.......
Dual MWD's are the ownage!!
Member of the Curse Alliance before the Corruption Leader of The Black Plague.
|
Nimrodel
|
Posted - 2004.08.22 13:00:00 -
[87]
If you want to Kill the 1 mn MWD then add about 500m/s to all frigates and 100m/s to all cruisers..
then Afterburners would have a use, frigates could evade missile fire and be.. "faster" and a mwd wouldnt be a NEEDED module..
against anything that doesnt use missiles or web a MWD isnt really needed --------------------------------------------- Nimrodel Dark Force User Joint Espionage & Defence Industries --------------------------------------------- Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage. |
Nimrodel
|
Posted - 2004.08.22 13:00:00 -
[88]
If you want to Kill the 1 mn MWD then add about 500m/s to all frigates and 100m/s to all cruisers..
then Afterburners would have a use, frigates could evade missile fire and be.. "faster" and a mwd wouldnt be a NEEDED module..
against anything that doesnt use missiles or web a MWD isnt really needed --------------------------------------------- Nimrodel Dark Force User Joint Espionage & Defence Industries --------------------------------------------- Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage. |
Roderic Excelion
|
Posted - 2004.08.22 13:23:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Selim
Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
LOL! next time you fight in a frigate fit a cap booster and a cap neutralizer. See how long the MWD frigate lasts loosing 40 cap/5 secs and with 25% less than you to begin with!
|
Roderic Excelion
|
Posted - 2004.08.22 13:23:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Selim
Its a no brainer module because if you dont fit it, any frigate with a mwd will KILL YOU. any missiles will KILL YOU. both of which need to be fixed.
Assault Frigs will be absolutely whupped by interceptors with mwds if they themselves dont have them fitted, trust me.
LOL! next time you fight in a frigate fit a cap booster and a cap neutralizer. See how long the MWD frigate lasts loosing 40 cap/5 secs and with 25% less than you to begin with!
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Roderic Excelion
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Posted - 2004.08.22 13:25:00 -
[91]
Thayt asside, the signature boost means that so long as you up your tracking you cant miss. I got hit by a heavy laser cos I turned on my MWD to ourtun the guns. I didn't last long, but thats hardly a surprise.
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Roderic Excelion
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Posted - 2004.08.22 13:25:00 -
[92]
Thayt asside, the signature boost means that so long as you up your tracking you cant miss. I got hit by a heavy laser cos I turned on my MWD to ourtun the guns. I didn't last long, but thats hardly a surprise.
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Roderic Excelion
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Posted - 2004.08.22 13:43:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Cruz
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever.
Yea, right. lost mine to a megabeam laser. What are you on?
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Roderic Excelion
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Posted - 2004.08.22 13:43:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Cruz
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever.
Yea, right. lost mine to a megabeam laser. What are you on?
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Anjerrai Meloanis
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Posted - 2004.08.22 16:25:00 -
[95]
all this being said dont you think the simple solution is to take away the small interceptors cap and force it to stop and fre missiles at it point blank range? the heavy nos has a 21km range, perfect for inty killing, hell if they get close use an energy weapon, that works just as well. stop trying to use the same setup for killing them and reconsider your options and modules, there are plenty to choose from!
uh. |
Anjerrai Meloanis
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Posted - 2004.08.22 16:25:00 -
[96]
all this being said dont you think the simple solution is to take away the small interceptors cap and force it to stop and fre missiles at it point blank range? the heavy nos has a 21km range, perfect for inty killing, hell if they get close use an energy weapon, that works just as well. stop trying to use the same setup for killing them and reconsider your options and modules, there are plenty to choose from!
uh. |
Ghosthunter
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Posted - 2004.08.22 16:46:00 -
[97]
you get signature increase when you use it? or its tthere even if you''r not useing it? **********************************************************
2004.08.28 20:06:14combatYour Heavy Ion Blaster I perfectly strikes Pirate Transport Ship, wrecking for 259.5 damage.
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Ghosthunter
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Posted - 2004.08.22 16:46:00 -
[98]
you get signature increase when you use it? or its tthere even if you''r not useing it? **********************************************************
2004.08.28 20:06:14combatYour Heavy Ion Blaster I perfectly strikes Pirate Transport Ship, wrecking for 259.5 damage.
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Grut
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:04:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Roderic Excelion
Originally by: Cruz
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever.
Yea, right. lost mine to a megabeam laser. What are you on?
Your right hes not quite correct, no bs gun will hit an interceptor on mwd unless your an ejit heading in a straight line towards/away at range Mostly harmless |
Grut
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:04:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Roderic Excelion
Originally by: Cruz
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever.
Yea, right. lost mine to a megabeam laser. What are you on?
Your right hes not quite correct, no bs gun will hit an interceptor on mwd unless your an ejit heading in a straight line towards/away at range Mostly harmless |
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:48:00 -
[101]
Every fighter currently in production has afterburners.
Since when should there never be a "no-brainer" module?
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:48:00 -
[102]
Every fighter currently in production has afterburners.
Since when should there never be a "no-brainer" module?
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:52:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Ghosthunter you get signature increase when you use it? or its tthere even if you''r not useing it?
Only when you use it. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.08.22 17:52:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ghosthunter you get signature increase when you use it? or its tthere even if you''r not useing it?
Only when you use it. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Ghosthunter
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Posted - 2004.08.22 18:02:00 -
[105]
k, thx **********************************************************
2004.08.28 20:06:14combatYour Heavy Ion Blaster I perfectly strikes Pirate Transport Ship, wrecking for 259.5 damage.
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Ghosthunter
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Posted - 2004.08.22 18:02:00 -
[106]
k, thx **********************************************************
2004.08.28 20:06:14combatYour Heavy Ion Blaster I perfectly strikes Pirate Transport Ship, wrecking for 259.5 damage.
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.08.22 23:33:00 -
[107]
The missile change will have a GREAT impact on how many frigs will use mwd's and even more how many pilots will choose a cruiser without that ******* 100mn ab and 10mn mwd ...
Note: Oversized AB's and mwd's need to be nerfed with this change (not any other oversized mods tho!)
... have you EVER noticed that a cruiser gets WTFPWND by cruise and torps?
So to get it clear: Missiles will be fast enough to hit even mwding frigs and ints! but they would also do the same dmg if or if the frig wont use its mwd...
... that way he maybe wont even fit a mwd!!!!
This will adress this particular problem: A mwd WILL NOT BE A "NO BRAINER" module anymore.
TBH I want the mwd nerfed, and through this change we will achieve that ...
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.08.22 23:33:00 -
[108]
The missile change will have a GREAT impact on how many frigs will use mwd's and even more how many pilots will choose a cruiser without that ******* 100mn ab and 10mn mwd ...
Note: Oversized AB's and mwd's need to be nerfed with this change (not any other oversized mods tho!)
... have you EVER noticed that a cruiser gets WTFPWND by cruise and torps?
So to get it clear: Missiles will be fast enough to hit even mwding frigs and ints! but they would also do the same dmg if or if the frig wont use its mwd...
... that way he maybe wont even fit a mwd!!!!
This will adress this particular problem: A mwd WILL NOT BE A "NO BRAINER" module anymore.
TBH I want the mwd nerfed, and through this change we will achieve that ...
Greetings Grim |
Nilit
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Posted - 2004.08.23 00:02:00 -
[109]
Problem.Main advantage frigates have over other ship classes is speed , however their base speed is only a fraction higher than other ship classes.That's why people fit MWDs as standart-fit on frigates.
Give frigs base speed of 1.5km/sec - 4km/sec ?
No.
Why ? Because people will still fit MWDs to make them even faster.
Stop fixing something that ain't broken.
Arguing with EVE customer support is like chatting up stewardess on the plane - you know you're not gonna get any , but it's still hella fun trying |
Nilit
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Posted - 2004.08.23 00:02:00 -
[110]
Problem.Main advantage frigates have over other ship classes is speed , however their base speed is only a fraction higher than other ship classes.That's why people fit MWDs as standart-fit on frigates.
Give frigs base speed of 1.5km/sec - 4km/sec ?
No.
Why ? Because people will still fit MWDs to make them even faster.
Stop fixing something that ain't broken.
Arguing with EVE customer support is like chatting up stewardess on the plane - you know you're not gonna get any , but it's still hella fun trying |
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Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2004.08.23 05:50:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Lansfear
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s.........
You don't read very well, or you only fly BS's.
No mwd = missles pwn you.
With mwd = guns pwn you.
Its a loss loss situation. THis is why I only fight other frig/ceptors now, it's to horribly imbalanced.
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever.
2004.07.12 03:17:00
Destroyed Type: Claw Solar System: BKG-Q2 System Security Level: 0.0
Involved parties:
Name: Ordo Abchao (laid the final blow) Security Status: -0.3 Corporation: m0o Corp Ship Type: Tempest Weapon Type: 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I
Destroyed items:
Type: Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters (Fitted - Medium slot)
Type: 200mm AutoCannon I (Fitted - High slot)
Type: 200mm AutoCannon I (Fitted - High slot)
Type: Capacitor Power Relay I (Fitted - Low slot)
Type: Capacitor Power Relay I (Fitted - Low slot)
Type: Capacitor Power Relay I (Fitted - Low slot)
Type: Bloodclaw Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 399
Type: Piranha Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 36
Type: Piranha Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 30
Type: Titanium Sabot S (Cargo) Quantity: 23
Order out of Chaos |
Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2004.08.23 05:50:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Lansfear
Originally by: Cruz
Originally by: Spec 593357629
lost my interceptor today Because of MWD penalty. Orbiting at 20k with mwd and warp diruptor. so to keep target scrambled i turned off mwd Hey with my low sig radius and my still decent speed i should be fine right. Nope All powerfull torpedoes got me ohh yeh forgot missles dont have to worry about tracking at all. WAY TO FRIKING BALENCE thing out for us pilots..
You lost your interceptor to a torpedo going 700m/s.........
You don't read very well, or you only fly BS's.
No mwd = missles pwn you.
With mwd = guns pwn you.
Its a loss loss situation. THis is why I only fight other frig/ceptors now, it's to horribly imbalanced.
NO BS gun will hit a MWDing interceptor... ever.
2004.07.12 03:17:00
Destroyed Type: Claw Solar System: BKG-Q2 System Security Level: 0.0
Involved parties:
Name: Ordo Abchao (laid the final blow) Security Status: -0.3 Corporation: m0o Corp Ship Type: Tempest Weapon Type: 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I
Destroyed items:
Type: Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters (Fitted - Medium slot)
Type: 200mm AutoCannon I (Fitted - High slot)
Type: 200mm AutoCannon I (Fitted - High slot)
Type: Capacitor Power Relay I (Fitted - Low slot)
Type: Capacitor Power Relay I (Fitted - Low slot)
Type: Capacitor Power Relay I (Fitted - Low slot)
Type: Bloodclaw Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 399
Type: Piranha Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 36
Type: Piranha Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 30
Type: Titanium Sabot S (Cargo) Quantity: 23
Order out of Chaos |
Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.23 09:22:00 -
[113]
A mwding frigate is harder to hit than a non mwding frigate depending on the acceleration control skill, *unless* its heading directly toward or away from the enemy.
So even with the missile changes, people will still fit MWD's to dodge gunfire better. Noobs will still die, like the Claw pilot that Ordo killed, because they were heading in a straight line to or fro the enemy, but any experienced frigate pilot with a mwd will not be hit by a battleship gun unless he's at extreme range.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.08.23 09:22:00 -
[114]
A mwding frigate is harder to hit than a non mwding frigate depending on the acceleration control skill, *unless* its heading directly toward or away from the enemy.
So even with the missile changes, people will still fit MWD's to dodge gunfire better. Noobs will still die, like the Claw pilot that Ordo killed, because they were heading in a straight line to or fro the enemy, but any experienced frigate pilot with a mwd will not be hit by a battleship gun unless he's at extreme range.
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.08.23 12:13:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Ordo Abchao
[...] Destroyed items:
Type: Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters (Fitted - Medium slot)
[...]
Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters... Named MWD? That's a 525% signature boost, not just the plain 500%, by the way.
Running a named MWD is like painting a target on your backside. The whole thing's so nonlinear that one moment your invincable, and the next, you're being hit by even 1400mms without tracking boosters. Named MWDs are ussually just enough to put you into the latter catagory.
Harry Voyager
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.08.23 12:13:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Ordo Abchao
[...] Destroyed items:
Type: Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters (Fitted - Medium slot)
[...]
Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters... Named MWD? That's a 525% signature boost, not just the plain 500%, by the way.
Running a named MWD is like painting a target on your backside. The whole thing's so nonlinear that one moment your invincable, and the next, you're being hit by even 1400mms without tracking boosters. Named MWDs are ussually just enough to put you into the latter catagory.
Harry Voyager
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OrbitalEffect
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Posted - 2004.08.23 15:32:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Harry Voyager Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters... Named MWD? That's a 525% signature boost, not just the plain 500%, by the way.
Running a named MWD is like painting a target on your backside. The whole thing's so nonlinear that one moment your invincable, and the next, you're being hit by even 1400mms without tracking boosters. Named MWDs are ussually just enough to put you into the latter catagory.
Harry Voyager
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't MWDs increase your sig radius, essentially decreasing lock time for your opponent? Once locked, it's a matter of tracking speed in which case, wouldn't the MWD be worth it?
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OrbitalEffect
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Posted - 2004.08.23 15:32:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Harry Voyager Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters... Named MWD? That's a 525% signature boost, not just the plain 500%, by the way.
Running a named MWD is like painting a target on your backside. The whole thing's so nonlinear that one moment your invincable, and the next, you're being hit by even 1400mms without tracking boosters. Named MWDs are ussually just enough to put you into the latter catagory.
Harry Voyager
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't MWDs increase your sig radius, essentially decreasing lock time for your opponent? Once locked, it's a matter of tracking speed in which case, wouldn't the MWD be worth it?
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.08.23 16:59:00 -
[119]
the lamest part of it all is the way mwds were found to be a valuable part in combat and now the mwd is a big big factor in balancing, pvp style and npc fighting style.
I would like to know why the mwd was "invented" I would guess it wasn't for combat.
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.08.23 16:59:00 -
[120]
the lamest part of it all is the way mwds were found to be a valuable part in combat and now the mwd is a big big factor in balancing, pvp style and npc fighting style.
I would like to know why the mwd was "invented" I would guess it wasn't for combat.
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.08.23 17:05:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Dirtball the lamest part of it all is the way mwds were found to be a valuable part in combat and now the mwd is a big big factor in balancing, pvp style and npc fighting style.
I would like to know why the mwd was "invented" I would guess it wasn't for combat.
Get to gates faster I assume.....or roids...or anything in space....
Combat was a after effect....Just leave them alone...game is getting over nerfed as is...
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.08.23 17:05:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Dirtball the lamest part of it all is the way mwds were found to be a valuable part in combat and now the mwd is a big big factor in balancing, pvp style and npc fighting style.
I would like to know why the mwd was "invented" I would guess it wasn't for combat.
Get to gates faster I assume.....or roids...or anything in space....
Combat was a after effect....Just leave them alone...game is getting over nerfed as is...
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Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2004.08.24 03:08:00 -
[123]
Originally by: OrbitalEffect
Originally by: Harry Voyager Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters... Named MWD? That's a 525% signature boost, not just the plain 500%, by the way.
Running a named MWD is like painting a target on your backside. The whole thing's so nonlinear that one moment your invincable, and the next, you're being hit by even 1400mms without tracking boosters. Named MWDs are ussually just enough to put you into the latter catagory.
Harry Voyager
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't MWDs increase your sig radius, essentially decreasing lock time for your opponent? Once locked, it's a matter of tracking speed in which case, wouldn't the MWD be worth it?
No, weapon tracking is now based off of signature radius and the 512.5% increase in signature radius is quite large, however, not large enough so that bs guns can easily hit a frigate. Order out of Chaos |
Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2004.08.24 03:08:00 -
[124]
Originally by: OrbitalEffect
Originally by: Harry Voyager Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters... Named MWD? That's a 525% signature boost, not just the plain 500%, by the way.
Running a named MWD is like painting a target on your backside. The whole thing's so nonlinear that one moment your invincable, and the next, you're being hit by even 1400mms without tracking boosters. Named MWDs are ussually just enough to put you into the latter catagory.
Harry Voyager
Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but don't MWDs increase your sig radius, essentially decreasing lock time for your opponent? Once locked, it's a matter of tracking speed in which case, wouldn't the MWD be worth it?
No, weapon tracking is now based off of signature radius and the 512.5% increase in signature radius is quite large, however, not large enough so that bs guns can easily hit a frigate. Order out of Chaos |
Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.08.24 05:15:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Dirtball the lamest part of it all is the way mwds were found to be a valuable part in combat and now the mwd is a big big factor in balancing, pvp style and npc fighting style.
I would like to know why the mwd was "invented" I would guess it wasn't for combat.
The RP reason, or the game reason?
For role-play, it was almost certainly created as a combat module, just the way every single other speed booster ever created was primarily militarily financed.
Even several of the major workhorses of their day came about because knights needed stronger, faster horses for combat.
Speed is life. That is never going to change.
Harry Voyager
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.08.24 05:15:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Dirtball the lamest part of it all is the way mwds were found to be a valuable part in combat and now the mwd is a big big factor in balancing, pvp style and npc fighting style.
I would like to know why the mwd was "invented" I would guess it wasn't for combat.
The RP reason, or the game reason?
For role-play, it was almost certainly created as a combat module, just the way every single other speed booster ever created was primarily militarily financed.
Even several of the major workhorses of their day came about because knights needed stronger, faster horses for combat.
Speed is life. That is never going to change.
Harry Voyager
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