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Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
199
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Posted - 2012.06.05 21:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is. |
Ituhata Saken
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
258
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Posted - 2012.06.05 21:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was actually looking forward to it, being hunted in highsec would have been fun, because it would have been sort of like nul, except no need to be super involved with your alliance. You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
431
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 for the OP for the character name. (haven't even started reading the post yet) "Eve isnGÇÖt some welcoming online utopia: itGÇÖs cut-throat, cruel, atavistic despite the futuristic setting. Give people a sandbox, and theyGÇÖll throw the sand in a rivalGÇÖs eyes before kicking them in the shins and destroying their sandcastle." -Keza MacDonald, IGN. |
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
41
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Most of us do. Don't let the great minority of the mining population convince you otherwise.
Some folks just want a bit more tankability in general for the Hulk. I don't fly a Hulk to mine, so can't comment on that. |
DeadDuck
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
18
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) ....
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Well since you are not a miner as you confess and you are not a pvp player either since in almost 3 years you achieved the great mark 128 kills I think that you really don't know what you are talking about. And yes, PVP players complain that they lost their shiny ship to:
- blobs, - camps, - traps, - ecm drones, - neuts, - TS spies, - FC's ... - All except their lack of skill
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ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadDuck wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) ....
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Well since you are not a miner as you confess and you are not a pvp player either since in almost 3 years you achieved the great mark 128 kills I think that you really don't know what you are talking about. And yes, PVP players complain that they lost their shiny ship to: - blobs, - camps, - traps, - ecm drones, - neuts, - TS spies, - FC's ... - All except their lack of skill
Some people complain they lose regions because of allies.... |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Because this must be my pvp main right? That said, I don't claim to be a great pvp'er, but I do pvp. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
72
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free. |
Captain Megadeath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shea Valerien wrote:Most of us do. Don't let the great minority of the mining population convince you otherwise.
This, not only are they wiping out our competition for free, but also taking care of the npc miners we can wardec.
Shea Valerien wrote:Some folks just want a bit more tankability in general for the Hulk. I don't fly a Hulk to mine, so can't comment on that.
I mine in the hulk and I can tell you that the Hulks tank is spot on for the job. The bozos crying for moar tank are the tools that think that the Hulks lows should ALWAYS be fitted with 2 MLU II no matter what.
They don't understand that fitting them is optional and if they do want to fit them it impinges on their tank, Just like how an armour tanked ship has to chose between tank or damage mods.
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Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
286
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oh, now I see the light and my life is changed. You are the 400th person to post this but there's just something so special about YOU. Enlightenment is finally upon me. My destiny in Eve is to mine with total engagement on D-scan forever. What fun that would be.
Seriously, if I wanted to put this much effort into Eve, d-scanning and aligning and whatnot, I'd find somebody's roam to join and do PVP. Which I've done on many occasions. The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. That's not so hard to understand unless you have an attitude and a need to tell other people how to play. |
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Captain Megadeath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention.
BS
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ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
91
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Oh, now I see the light and my life is changed. You are the 400th person to post this but there's just something so special about YOU. Enlightenment is finally upon me. My destiny in Eve is to mine with total engagement on D-scan forever. What fun that would be.
Seriously, if I wanted to put this much effort into Eve, d-scanning and aligning and whatnot, I'd find somebody's roam to join and do PVP. Which I've done on many occasions. The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. That's not so hard to understand unless you have an attitude and a need to tell other people how to play.
Highlighted the assumption that is causing you pain. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Found one.
I'm quite sure that was never originally envisioned as the point, by anyone.
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Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
77
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Found one. I'm quite sure that was never originally envisioned as the point, by anyone.
On the other hand I'm quite sure that it was envisioned as a place where you could concentrate on the mining because folks interested in PvP would be out in the majority of the map where it was readily available.
Ah well. Never bet against lazy. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
15
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote: Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
Can someone who mines clarify as to whether mineral prices are significantly higher than previous to Hulkageddon?
I was under the impression that there was a spike but that prices are currently dropping. However, I don't mine. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
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Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:DeadDuck wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) ....
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Well since you are not a miner as you confess and you are not a pvp player either since in almost 3 years you achieved the great mark 128 kills I think that you really don't know what you are talking about. And yes, PVP players complain that they lost their shiny ship to: - blobs, - camps, - traps, - ecm drones, - neuts, - TS spies, - FC's ... - All except their lack of skill Some people complain they lose regions because of allies.... A bad workman always blames his tools. |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bill Loney wrote: A bad workman always blames his tools.
Are you saying the NC was bad that the goons were tools or do you not get the joke?
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Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.06.05 22:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Covert Kitty wrote: Prices go up, and the miners make more money right? Can someone who mines clarify as to whether mineral prices are significantly higher than previous to Hulkageddon? I was under the impression that there was a spike but that prices are currently dropping. However, I don't mine. It changes daily but as from the other day, trit was through the roof, ships have gone up but they all fluctuate for different reasons, hulkageddon being at its prime has rose t1 ship proces about 10% and i dunno what hulks are worth as i havent lost mine yet (touch wood). Hulkageddon is a refreshing change for myself as mining is no longer mindnumbingly boring, now we have to treat it like 0.0 but without the isk factor :(
ModeratedToSilence wrote:Bill Loney wrote: A bad workman always blames his tools.
Are you saying the NC was bad that the goons were tools or do you not get the joke? I am saying, a bad workman always blames his tools |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1148
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Two considerations.
1) As I posted on another thread, even before the first round of this Hulkageddon is was quite common to see up to more than 20 mining ships blown a day in one system. How much spam did you see on the forum back then? Little. Why? Because it was the more or less occasional gankers, some days they'd feel like killing more, some days less. Miners would add them to contact list and everyone lived their life. Hi sec was a realistic expectation of a civilized empire: a place where you have the possibility to die every time you undock, but generally less than low and nullsec.
Now enter two factors:
- A sequel of delirious apologetic posts both in these forums and outside about how about the miners are a cancer, must be exterminated and similar. Nothing special for these forums but this time it was people able to drive opinions. This caused reactions and they were certainly not due to having a ship popped. I have been expecially hit by the fact that I got a forum mod warning via email because I typed "p*rn" while those copy pasting famous WW2 ideology apologetic texts could carry on and repeat the "concepts" ad nauseam. Now, I might sound picky, but considering I had grandfathers who got almost killed by the militias following those ideologies I felt personally affected.
- At the same time 0.0 players started a denigratory campaign against hi sec. This also caused reactions. Ships don't matter at all in this. This is the real annoying thing, to have hypocrite outsiders who made the impossible to NAP the universe to go teach elsewhere how hard and harsh they have to play.
- Putting the above in practice, grand scale organized and subsidized raiding parties started sweeping hi sec to impose the New Order. From the 20-ish ships killed a day to more than 70. This of course caused the most "sensitive" miners to start posting on the forums. Random risk in hi sec was OK, enforced low sec risk clashed with the low income that characterizes mining and then threads happened.
2) Those 0.0 though guys preach risk and hardship, yet they play at zero risk and zero loss, since most 0.0 PvP corps have a ship loss replacement program (sponsored by moon goo or corp ops). In mine, we even had capital ships replaced.
So, players who got bored in their own NAP playing with freely replaced ships came to preach the others that the game has to be hard and harsh.
Sadly for them, not everyone are muppets to believe their propaganda bullcrap.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. |
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Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:.... while those copy pasting famous WW2 ideology apologetic texts could carry on and repeat the "concepts" ad nauseam. Now, I might sound picky, but considering I had grandfathers who got almost killed by the militias following those ideologies I felt personally affected. Did you seriously just play the holocaust card for a video game? :/
Quote:Those 0.0 though guys preach risk and hardship, yet they play at zero risk and zero loss, since most 0.0 PvP corps have a ship loss replacement program (sponsored by moon goo or corp ops). In mine, we even had capital ships replaced. Well.. fair enough. There's a lot of nullbears that complain about afk cloaking, wishing they could pve in perfect saftey (which thanks to local, they pretty much can). Though to nit-pick, most alliance reimbursement programs only cover alliance op losses, not pve or random roaming losses.
In addition, all the things that nullsec players do to keep themselves perfectly safe are also available to highsec miners, and more. To me the question is not "should highsec mining be perfectly safe", but rather how do we add more gameplay "landscape" to solar systems across the board null/lowsec included. Just docking up the moment your seen in local is a pretty BS game mechanic imo...
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Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bill Loney wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges. Good point, we do from time to time, and quite often pay for it. I'm pretty sure I've been killed a couple times because I went to make some tea at the wrong time XD
Of course the response to that, every time, is "you should have safed/logged/docked" first. I got my tea, but lost my ship. That's how it works in Eve, it's just fine if it works like that in mining as well. |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
244
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is. In principle I agree with your argument.
Sooky miners wouldn't be complaining about being ganked compared to being drugged and taken to The Lemon Party's pleasure dome....
I've said too much.
Your post lacks class for bypassing the "word" filter of this fine establishment but all in all you are as sexy looking thing and I am pleased.
I hope some miner died while comprehending this post instead of looking at their D-Scan. EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Bill Loney wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges. Good point, we do from time to time, and quite often pay for it. I'm pretty sure I've been killed a couple times because I went to make some tea at the wrong time XD Of course the response to that, every time, is "you should have safed/logged/docked" first. I got my tea, but lost my ship. That's how it works in Eve, it's just fine if it works like that in mining as well. Indeed and probably why i havent lost a hulk yet. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
68
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bill Loney wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges. Everybody knows that pvping is safer than mining. |
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
47
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
DeadDuck wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) ....
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Well since you are not a miner as you confess and you are not a pvp player either since in almost 3 ye - blobs, - camps, - TS spies, - FC's ... - All except their lack of skill
Lets face it, most "pvpers" only engage when they know that they can, without a doubt, win. That or they will only engage if they have a 50/50 chance, but a 100% chance of escaping...yeah you gate humpers, I'm talking about you. Then there are those that live for baiting people into a titan bridged fleet.
The problem with the OP's lack of information, which she declared outright, is that it can take so little to destroy barges. Of course you won't see many t2 combat ships being raped by a few t1 ships that cost as much as a single module on the t2 ship. It completely ignores the intended goal of the player, the 'career' in game, and ship selection. It also ignores the choice of theater of operations. IF you go to 0.0, then yes you are technically clicking the "yes" box to be open to pvp regardless of what you intend on doing. You are assuming the risk that people are going to outright murder you if you make a mistake, but you do so because of the fat profits you can make mining out there.
People like to confuse the idea of high security systems to 0.0 systems. Somehow they moronically get it into their heads that all areas of the game need to be the same security rating. They think that because someone has access to veldspar that it is on par with 0.0 ores, therefore they should assume the same level of risk. That is absolutely stupid.
IF CCP is going to allow the continued harassment of hisec miners, they need to start seeding better ores then what can be found in 0.0. Now I know some limited people here are going to not realize why I would suggest such, so I shall break it down.
0.0 mining has advantages over hisec mining right now. The first is that in 0.0, if its not blue, its not friendly. If it is not friendly, dock up. In hisec if its not blue, its normal. If seeing non-blue pilots by the dozen flying about how does one know when it is safe to undock and mine? Answer? They cannot, therefore they can either stay docked up or assume greater risks then their 0.0 counter parts.
Null has better minerals then any hisec system. Null miners can make far more per hour regardless of what people want to exagerate about the increased prices of minerals such as veldspar. They can mine such ores without the undefined risk associated with the masses of pilots flying around hisec, their risk vs reward ratio is through the roof. The hisec miner is stuck mining trash ores that will never net him a fortune regardless of how much he mines and since anyone in a barge is a target and no one is doing afk checks of any sort before attacking, the risk vs reward ratio is far more risk then reward.
The reason that a hisec miner will never become rich just because the prices of trit and other low ends may go up, and their so called "competition" gets blown up, is that no one is adjusting for the inflation. IF you had an hour of work and earned $10 USD, and something happens where there are fewer workers available and companies start paying more for a worker from $10 USD per work hour to $20 USD an hour, you are not making more money in the end. The reason is that everyone is seeing increases across the board, so getting that $20 USD per work hour is going to leave you in the same damn position as you were in when you were only getting $10 an hour but there were far more workers available. Why? Because the costs of everything else is going to increase to the point of negating your gains per hour.
10mil for a ship that used to cost 7mil before the spike in low end mineral costs? Sure, if all you do is mine you will not see the increase, but whenever you decide to get around to spending your isk you are going to get a lot less then you would have months ago. The only difference is that the numbers that are being exchanged are higher, but you gained zero additional buying power. Therefore those that suggest that miners that are always ready to warp off at a split second's notice are going to make more money are either absolute idiots that have no idea how things work, or they are intentionally lying to you in hopes that you simply roll over and take it.
The idea that "smart" miners are going to easily survive is absolutely false. Of course they like to say "smart miners" as an attempt to drive a wedge between those that have been popped and those that have yet to be popped. Look up "poisoning the well" and you will understand what I mean. They want you to think the other guy was an idiot and they want to puff up your ego so that you two will never realize both of you are at risk at all times and for no reason other then Goon's greed and the greed of lemmings. Divide and conquer. These people looking to kill barges are not going to stop and see if you are afk or at the keyboard, they are just going to attack you regardless because blasting your ship puts money in their wallets.
Barges make easy targets in hisec because there are to many people to track. Its not 0.0 where you know neutrals are to be assumed hostile. You don't know if a neutral is cloaked near your barge and his friends are warping to him right now to kill you before you have a chance to warp off even if aligned. If I was taking part of this crap there would be no escape for your barge and you would be a fool to believe you ever did. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:People like to confuse the idea of high security systems to 0.0 systems. Somehow they moronically get it into their heads that all areas of the game need to be the same security rating. They think that because someone has access to veldspar that it is on par with 0.0 ores, therefore they should assume the same level of risk. That is absolutely stupid.
Your absolutely correct, for example, highsec miners make an improper risk/reward decision when they use a 200mil ship for an income of like 5-10mil/hr. If your in nullsec, you can apparently make more like 90-100mil /hr. That ratio is completely, utterly, out of line, and yes you would be "absolutely stupid" to make that choice.
That's the whole point |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
214
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.
some miners are happy, some aren't. Not very hard to figure out why for each one. On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
Captain Fandango
The Primrose League
0
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Posted - 2012.06.05 23:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended .
Is this not the definition of emergent gameplay? Goonswarm representatives repeatedly claim they champion the cause of emergent gameplay and feel that one of eve's greatest strengths is that it supports player driven change, so I don't see how carebears, who are undeniably still players, altering hi-sec space and mutating it into something other than what was origonally intended can be seen as a bad or unfortunate thing.
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