Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
199
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 21:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is. |
Ituhata Saken
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
258
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 21:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was actually looking forward to it, being hunted in highsec would have been fun, because it would have been sort of like nul, except no need to be super involved with your alliance. You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
431
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 for the OP for the character name. (haven't even started reading the post yet) "Eve isnGÇÖt some welcoming online utopia: itGÇÖs cut-throat, cruel, atavistic despite the futuristic setting. Give people a sandbox, and theyGÇÖll throw the sand in a rivalGÇÖs eyes before kicking them in the shins and destroying their sandcastle." -Keza MacDonald, IGN. |
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Most of us do. Don't let the great minority of the mining population convince you otherwise.
Some folks just want a bit more tankability in general for the Hulk. I don't fly a Hulk to mine, so can't comment on that. |
DeadDuck
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) ....
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Well since you are not a miner as you confess and you are not a pvp player either since in almost 3 years you achieved the great mark 128 kills I think that you really don't know what you are talking about. And yes, PVP players complain that they lost their shiny ship to:
- blobs, - camps, - traps, - ecm drones, - neuts, - TS spies, - FC's ... - All except their lack of skill
|
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadDuck wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) ....
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Well since you are not a miner as you confess and you are not a pvp player either since in almost 3 years you achieved the great mark 128 kills I think that you really don't know what you are talking about. And yes, PVP players complain that they lost their shiny ship to: - blobs, - camps, - traps, - ecm drones, - neuts, - TS spies, - FC's ... - All except their lack of skill
Some people complain they lose regions because of allies.... |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Because this must be my pvp main right? That said, I don't claim to be a great pvp'er, but I do pvp. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
72
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free. |
Captain Megadeath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shea Valerien wrote:Most of us do. Don't let the great minority of the mining population convince you otherwise.
This, not only are they wiping out our competition for free, but also taking care of the npc miners we can wardec.
Shea Valerien wrote:Some folks just want a bit more tankability in general for the Hulk. I don't fly a Hulk to mine, so can't comment on that.
I mine in the hulk and I can tell you that the Hulks tank is spot on for the job. The bozos crying for moar tank are the tools that think that the Hulks lows should ALWAYS be fitted with 2 MLU II no matter what.
They don't understand that fitting them is optional and if they do want to fit them it impinges on their tank, Just like how an armour tanked ship has to chose between tank or damage mods.
|
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
286
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oh, now I see the light and my life is changed. You are the 400th person to post this but there's just something so special about YOU. Enlightenment is finally upon me. My destiny in Eve is to mine with total engagement on D-scan forever. What fun that would be.
Seriously, if I wanted to put this much effort into Eve, d-scanning and aligning and whatnot, I'd find somebody's roam to join and do PVP. Which I've done on many occasions. The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. That's not so hard to understand unless you have an attitude and a need to tell other people how to play. |
|
Captain Megadeath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention.
BS
|
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Oh, now I see the light and my life is changed. You are the 400th person to post this but there's just something so special about YOU. Enlightenment is finally upon me. My destiny in Eve is to mine with total engagement on D-scan forever. What fun that would be.
Seriously, if I wanted to put this much effort into Eve, d-scanning and aligning and whatnot, I'd find somebody's roam to join and do PVP. Which I've done on many occasions. The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. That's not so hard to understand unless you have an attitude and a need to tell other people how to play.
Highlighted the assumption that is causing you pain. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Found one.
I'm quite sure that was never originally envisioned as the point, by anyone.
|
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Found one. I'm quite sure that was never originally envisioned as the point, by anyone.
On the other hand I'm quite sure that it was envisioned as a place where you could concentrate on the mining because folks interested in PvP would be out in the majority of the map where it was readily available.
Ah well. Never bet against lazy. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote: Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
Can someone who mines clarify as to whether mineral prices are significantly higher than previous to Hulkageddon?
I was under the impression that there was a spike but that prices are currently dropping. However, I don't mine. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
ModeratedToSilence wrote:DeadDuck wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) ....
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Well since you are not a miner as you confess and you are not a pvp player either since in almost 3 years you achieved the great mark 128 kills I think that you really don't know what you are talking about. And yes, PVP players complain that they lost their shiny ship to: - blobs, - camps, - traps, - ecm drones, - neuts, - TS spies, - FC's ... - All except their lack of skill Some people complain they lose regions because of allies.... A bad workman always blames his tools. |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bill Loney wrote: A bad workman always blames his tools.
Are you saying the NC was bad that the goons were tools or do you not get the joke?
|
Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Covert Kitty wrote: Prices go up, and the miners make more money right? Can someone who mines clarify as to whether mineral prices are significantly higher than previous to Hulkageddon? I was under the impression that there was a spike but that prices are currently dropping. However, I don't mine. It changes daily but as from the other day, trit was through the roof, ships have gone up but they all fluctuate for different reasons, hulkageddon being at its prime has rose t1 ship proces about 10% and i dunno what hulks are worth as i havent lost mine yet (touch wood). Hulkageddon is a refreshing change for myself as mining is no longer mindnumbingly boring, now we have to treat it like 0.0 but without the isk factor :(
ModeratedToSilence wrote:Bill Loney wrote: A bad workman always blames his tools.
Are you saying the NC was bad that the goons were tools or do you not get the joke? I am saying, a bad workman always blames his tools |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1148
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Two considerations.
1) As I posted on another thread, even before the first round of this Hulkageddon is was quite common to see up to more than 20 mining ships blown a day in one system. How much spam did you see on the forum back then? Little. Why? Because it was the more or less occasional gankers, some days they'd feel like killing more, some days less. Miners would add them to contact list and everyone lived their life. Hi sec was a realistic expectation of a civilized empire: a place where you have the possibility to die every time you undock, but generally less than low and nullsec.
Now enter two factors:
- A sequel of delirious apologetic posts both in these forums and outside about how about the miners are a cancer, must be exterminated and similar. Nothing special for these forums but this time it was people able to drive opinions. This caused reactions and they were certainly not due to having a ship popped. I have been expecially hit by the fact that I got a forum mod warning via email because I typed "p*rn" while those copy pasting famous WW2 ideology apologetic texts could carry on and repeat the "concepts" ad nauseam. Now, I might sound picky, but considering I had grandfathers who got almost killed by the militias following those ideologies I felt personally affected.
- At the same time 0.0 players started a denigratory campaign against hi sec. This also caused reactions. Ships don't matter at all in this. This is the real annoying thing, to have hypocrite outsiders who made the impossible to NAP the universe to go teach elsewhere how hard and harsh they have to play.
- Putting the above in practice, grand scale organized and subsidized raiding parties started sweeping hi sec to impose the New Order. From the 20-ish ships killed a day to more than 70. This of course caused the most "sensitive" miners to start posting on the forums. Random risk in hi sec was OK, enforced low sec risk clashed with the low income that characterizes mining and then threads happened.
2) Those 0.0 though guys preach risk and hardship, yet they play at zero risk and zero loss, since most 0.0 PvP corps have a ship loss replacement program (sponsored by moon goo or corp ops). In mine, we even had capital ships replaced.
So, players who got bored in their own NAP playing with freely replaced ships came to preach the others that the game has to be hard and harsh.
Sadly for them, not everyone are muppets to believe their propaganda bullcrap.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. |
|
Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 22:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:.... while those copy pasting famous WW2 ideology apologetic texts could carry on and repeat the "concepts" ad nauseam. Now, I might sound picky, but considering I had grandfathers who got almost killed by the militias following those ideologies I felt personally affected. Did you seriously just play the holocaust card for a video game? :/
Quote:Those 0.0 though guys preach risk and hardship, yet they play at zero risk and zero loss, since most 0.0 PvP corps have a ship loss replacement program (sponsored by moon goo or corp ops). In mine, we even had capital ships replaced. Well.. fair enough. There's a lot of nullbears that complain about afk cloaking, wishing they could pve in perfect saftey (which thanks to local, they pretty much can). Though to nit-pick, most alliance reimbursement programs only cover alliance op losses, not pve or random roaming losses.
In addition, all the things that nullsec players do to keep themselves perfectly safe are also available to highsec miners, and more. To me the question is not "should highsec mining be perfectly safe", but rather how do we add more gameplay "landscape" to solar systems across the board null/lowsec included. Just docking up the moment your seen in local is a pretty BS game mechanic imo...
|
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Bill Loney wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges. Good point, we do from time to time, and quite often pay for it. I'm pretty sure I've been killed a couple times because I went to make some tea at the wrong time XD
Of course the response to that, every time, is "you should have safed/logged/docked" first. I got my tea, but lost my ship. That's how it works in Eve, it's just fine if it works like that in mining as well. |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
244
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is. In principle I agree with your argument.
Sooky miners wouldn't be complaining about being ganked compared to being drugged and taken to The Lemon Party's pleasure dome....
I've said too much.
Your post lacks class for bypassing the "word" filter of this fine establishment but all in all you are as sexy looking thing and I am pleased.
I hope some miner died while comprehending this post instead of looking at their D-Scan. EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Bill Loney wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges. Good point, we do from time to time, and quite often pay for it. I'm pretty sure I've been killed a couple times because I went to make some tea at the wrong time XD Of course the response to that, every time, is "you should have safed/logged/docked" first. I got my tea, but lost my ship. That's how it works in Eve, it's just fine if it works like that in mining as well. Indeed and probably why i havent lost a hulk yet. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bill Loney wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer. But u pvp players do it also when sitting at gate camps and sov sieges. Everybody knows that pvping is safer than mining. |
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
47
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
DeadDuck wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) ....
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
Well since you are not a miner as you confess and you are not a pvp player either since in almost 3 ye - blobs, - camps, - TS spies, - FC's ... - All except their lack of skill
Lets face it, most "pvpers" only engage when they know that they can, without a doubt, win. That or they will only engage if they have a 50/50 chance, but a 100% chance of escaping...yeah you gate humpers, I'm talking about you. Then there are those that live for baiting people into a titan bridged fleet.
The problem with the OP's lack of information, which she declared outright, is that it can take so little to destroy barges. Of course you won't see many t2 combat ships being raped by a few t1 ships that cost as much as a single module on the t2 ship. It completely ignores the intended goal of the player, the 'career' in game, and ship selection. It also ignores the choice of theater of operations. IF you go to 0.0, then yes you are technically clicking the "yes" box to be open to pvp regardless of what you intend on doing. You are assuming the risk that people are going to outright murder you if you make a mistake, but you do so because of the fat profits you can make mining out there.
People like to confuse the idea of high security systems to 0.0 systems. Somehow they moronically get it into their heads that all areas of the game need to be the same security rating. They think that because someone has access to veldspar that it is on par with 0.0 ores, therefore they should assume the same level of risk. That is absolutely stupid.
IF CCP is going to allow the continued harassment of hisec miners, they need to start seeding better ores then what can be found in 0.0. Now I know some limited people here are going to not realize why I would suggest such, so I shall break it down.
0.0 mining has advantages over hisec mining right now. The first is that in 0.0, if its not blue, its not friendly. If it is not friendly, dock up. In hisec if its not blue, its normal. If seeing non-blue pilots by the dozen flying about how does one know when it is safe to undock and mine? Answer? They cannot, therefore they can either stay docked up or assume greater risks then their 0.0 counter parts.
Null has better minerals then any hisec system. Null miners can make far more per hour regardless of what people want to exagerate about the increased prices of minerals such as veldspar. They can mine such ores without the undefined risk associated with the masses of pilots flying around hisec, their risk vs reward ratio is through the roof. The hisec miner is stuck mining trash ores that will never net him a fortune regardless of how much he mines and since anyone in a barge is a target and no one is doing afk checks of any sort before attacking, the risk vs reward ratio is far more risk then reward.
The reason that a hisec miner will never become rich just because the prices of trit and other low ends may go up, and their so called "competition" gets blown up, is that no one is adjusting for the inflation. IF you had an hour of work and earned $10 USD, and something happens where there are fewer workers available and companies start paying more for a worker from $10 USD per work hour to $20 USD an hour, you are not making more money in the end. The reason is that everyone is seeing increases across the board, so getting that $20 USD per work hour is going to leave you in the same damn position as you were in when you were only getting $10 an hour but there were far more workers available. Why? Because the costs of everything else is going to increase to the point of negating your gains per hour.
10mil for a ship that used to cost 7mil before the spike in low end mineral costs? Sure, if all you do is mine you will not see the increase, but whenever you decide to get around to spending your isk you are going to get a lot less then you would have months ago. The only difference is that the numbers that are being exchanged are higher, but you gained zero additional buying power. Therefore those that suggest that miners that are always ready to warp off at a split second's notice are going to make more money are either absolute idiots that have no idea how things work, or they are intentionally lying to you in hopes that you simply roll over and take it.
The idea that "smart" miners are going to easily survive is absolutely false. Of course they like to say "smart miners" as an attempt to drive a wedge between those that have been popped and those that have yet to be popped. Look up "poisoning the well" and you will understand what I mean. They want you to think the other guy was an idiot and they want to puff up your ego so that you two will never realize both of you are at risk at all times and for no reason other then Goon's greed and the greed of lemmings. Divide and conquer. These people looking to kill barges are not going to stop and see if you are afk or at the keyboard, they are just going to attack you regardless because blasting your ship puts money in their wallets.
Barges make easy targets in hisec because there are to many people to track. Its not 0.0 where you know neutrals are to be assumed hostile. You don't know if a neutral is cloaked near your barge and his friends are warping to him right now to kill you before you have a chance to warp off even if aligned. If I was taking part of this crap there would be no escape for your barge and you would be a fool to believe you ever did. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
201
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:People like to confuse the idea of high security systems to 0.0 systems. Somehow they moronically get it into their heads that all areas of the game need to be the same security rating. They think that because someone has access to veldspar that it is on par with 0.0 ores, therefore they should assume the same level of risk. That is absolutely stupid.
Your absolutely correct, for example, highsec miners make an improper risk/reward decision when they use a 200mil ship for an income of like 5-10mil/hr. If your in nullsec, you can apparently make more like 90-100mil /hr. That ratio is completely, utterly, out of line, and yes you would be "absolutely stupid" to make that choice.
That's the whole point |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
214
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.
some miners are happy, some aren't. Not very hard to figure out why for each one. On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
Captain Fandango
The Primrose League
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended .
Is this not the definition of emergent gameplay? Goonswarm representatives repeatedly claim they champion the cause of emergent gameplay and feel that one of eve's greatest strengths is that it supports player driven change, so I don't see how carebears, who are undeniably still players, altering hi-sec space and mutating it into something other than what was origonally intended can be seen as a bad or unfortunate thing.
|
|
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:People like to confuse the idea of high security systems to 0.0 systems. Somehow they moronically get it into their heads that all areas of the game need to be the same security rating. They think that because someone has access to veldspar that it is on par with 0.0 ores, therefore they should assume the same level of risk. That is absolutely stupid. Your absolutely correct, for example, highsec miners make an improper risk/reward decision when they use a 200mil ship for an income of like 5-10mil/hr. If your in nullsec, you can apparently make more like 90-100mil /hr. That ratio is completely, utterly, out of line, and yes you would be "absolutely stupid" to make that choice. It's like using an officer fit nightmare run missions. Sure, people do it, but people pay for it pretty regularly as well. If your goal is to make isk, fly a ship that best matches your expected income. That's the whole point
Yes, I know I am correct. Unfortunately for you, your miserable excuse for logic is completely wrong, making you the 'absolutely stupid" one around here. "of like 5-10 mil" again showing your lack of of knowledge about mining, especially when coupled with the fact that a hulk will pull in far more ore then a covetor within a single month. This makes it far more logical for a hisec minor to invest in a hulk if they are going to be there for some time as they will more then make their investment back.
Please, try to come up with something at least half baked next time. |
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote: Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
No, but I do read their whining posts about what other people may or may not be doing in another sector of space; that they think it's wrong and that they are going to teach people a lesson. I haven't quite figured out that attitude yet. Perhaps you can start a thread with that? |
Svarek
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
In a lot of cases, miners mine because they want to mind and not to fight and be left alone. (Corporate miners, mining alts, etc excluded, I mean carebear miners.) When they have to fight, or are attacked, a foreign world they have little knowledge of and wished to dissociated from is pushing itself on them. They, suffice to say, do not enjoy this. They may play the game for an entirely different set of reasons than the pirates do.
Now, this is kind of a weird approach, as they're an integral part of the economy whether they like it or realize it or not. They play the game for different reasons, but they still play it. And they're still very much a part of it. Thinking they can separate themselves from combat is naive - there is no conscientious objecting in the world of Eve.
It is still understandable, though, how they may become upset when the evil pirates swoop out of nowhere and keep killing their lovely hulks. It's a world they have willfully excluded themselves from that's coming a-knocking at the door. But on the other hand, it's also understandable that pirates could see the miners as being a whole host of negative things, mainly whiny or silly for doing the things they do. This is also valid. But we kind of have a clash of worldviews going on (in the cases of simple carebear high-sec miner versus pirate or bounty hunter), and that means nobody ends up happy. Things the miners might see as rude or mean are just the way of life outside of the loving arms of CONCORD. And things the pirates might see as obvious or simple might be entirely foreign concepts to the miners who have spent their lives thus far nestled in the bosom of high-sec. Grandpa Bill: "I remember my uncle Joe who used to go mining, back then it was easy to get black lung, but we called it coughing lung because we really didnt care what color it was, the coughing seemed like it should be in the title since he did so much of it." |
ivar R'dhak
STK Scientific
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 23:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Found one. I'm quite sure that was never originally envisioned as the point, by anyone. And jet can mining was also never envisioned by CCP.
My take is that miners have finally woken up to how utterly griefer-centric this game actually is.
Hulkageddon isn-¦t about some OZOM emergent PVP game play but simply exploiting an obvious oversight in ship balancing and game design. It-¦s plain ridiculous that a a handful destroyers can so easily obliterate a supposedly hardy "HULK". Personally I-¦m actually grateful for the permanent Hulkageddon. Either CCP fixes their effin game or they can start mining in Jove battlehips themselves to save the game-¦s economy from keeling over. |
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 00:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
ivar R'dhak wrote:And jet can mining was also never envisioned by CCP. . I imagine there was a lot that CCP didn't imagine as Eve has progressed. Like, I don't think CCP thought low and null sec would become a boring wasteland. |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 00:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
ivar R'dhak wrote: Either CCP fixes their effin game or they can start mining in Jove battlehips themselves to save the game-¦s economy from keeling over.
The "game's economy" won't keel over. Price points for T1 ships/modules will move to a new balance point.
|
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
72
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 01:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Captain Fandango wrote:Spikeflach wrote:Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended . Is this not the definition of emergent gameplay? Goonswarm representatives repeatedly claim they champion the cause of emergent gameplay and feel that one of eve's greatest strengths is that it supports player driven change, so I don't see how carebears, who are undeniably still players, altering hi-sec space and mutating it into something other than what was origonally intended can be seen as a bad or unfortunate thing.
My whole point being the idea that Hi-sec was possibly meant to be a starting area for people to branch out into lowsec and 0.0 space, but what the "players" or large alliances have made out of lowsec and 0.0 has turned hi-sec into something that is no longer what it may have been intended to be. |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 01:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer.
WHOOOAH WHOOAH, everyone hold up, we got a game designer who knows how EVE's designed to be played here!!!
Not being funny or nothing, but put a sock in it and leave out telling people how to play. Everyone plays EVE afk to some extent, null sec guys are the worst for it since they spend hours sat at blue pos's or docked waiting for a bridge or a fleet to take them to a fight. Market traders are certainly not spending much time focused solidly on the spreadsheets, I'd imagine most miners dont fixate on their screens while they 'buzzbuzz' rocks, everyone plays afk to a point.
Also, considering the game lets you 'level up' or 'gain skills' while your computer isn't even turned on I'd say if anything EVE was designed around a semi-afk/not even logged in play style. Tbh, I've lost count of the number of times I've walked away from EVE to take a leak, grab a drink or do something, may not be clever to do it but who cares what people do with their gametime, its their choice.
As an aside to the whole 'miner ganking' thing, when I first started playing four years ago, nullsec was interesting, the people who lived and fought there were interesting, they actually encouraged people to join them to fight a cause, the whole game was clever. Now its just two camps, the people who want to just play the game and the people who want to boot everyone else out with insults and childishness. EVE is not the game it once was, its become a playground for spoiled kids, and no amount of expansions or pretty graphical upgrades will ever bring back what made it special. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
115
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 01:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:2) Those 0.0 though guys preach risk and hardship, yet they play at zero risk and zero loss, since most 0.0 PvP corps have a ship loss replacement program (sponsored by moon goo or corp ops). In mine, we even had capital ships replaced.
This post clarify a lot of stuff but unfortunately only sane people can understand witch is sad when you've read IG local chat and heard on vocal people being called/named the worst things a normally respectable human being would pick a gun and kill the guy on his feet. Unfortunately this is Eve and in eve this behaviour not only is encouraged but leads to no actions, however if someone report you for trolling you can be sure a simple phrase will lead you to some forum ban, witch is not really a loss with such pathetic content and happy some times trolls entertain a little bit this mess.
Wanted to confirm this second point, of all null sec alliances I know (a lot) use this specific program, the way reimbursements are done or if it's just ships you're given in advance and replaced once lost etc yadyada doesn't matter.
What it matters is that if big hat tells you "go there kill *this"" no matter how much is the loss vs the kill or how many, you WILL get TOTAL reimbursement. So yes, another null sec no brainers fake argument about risk witch is something they don't really know. But they're not all alike of course. brb |
seanb29
Terra nova industry Vires Per Iunctum
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 01:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
well i wasnt going to post here but oh well.Here goes my thought on all this hehe.Am a miner and industry have been and will always will be a miner.i been playing eve off and on since 2003,eve is a sandbox game where u can play however you want to play eve.I for one is getting sick and tired of some miners coming on the forums and whining about the game,how they keep getting killed in high sec.well let me tell you something,i been in plenty of allainces out in 0.0 and low sec systems and had a blast out there.u need to learn how to fit ur little mining ships correctly to survire in this game and it dont matter if you are in 0.0 lowsec or high sec,you are not safe anywhere and to assume that you should be safe in empire is wrong way of thinking and for the love of god please stop whining on the forums u make the rest of us miners look bad.and i also would like to state there is nothing wrong with eve,it some players that need to learn how the game is played.empire dont need any buffs or changed in anyway.empire 1.0-0.8 was intended for new players,0.7-0.6 hmm forgot what that was meant for lol,0.5 was place to get ready and wet your feet for pirate or 0.0 living and 0.4-0.1 is knowned has outlaw land where the bad pirates hangout.And am also going to say so what that goons are having fun by creating player content,let them play they way and you play your way and am going to say what some goons have said in many other threads and hope they dont mind me repeating it ( adapt or die) |
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 01:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.
Hi sec is not a starting area.
Hi sec does not consist of just 1.0 and .9 systems, it's all systems .6 up. (is .5 considered low or hi I can't rememer)
Null > 0.0 > low sec > high sec > starting system
The only starting areas, or systems, in the game are the ones that you start in as a new player. The moment you undock and leave that system, you've left the starting area.
In otherwords your wrote a bunch of words that amount to ****, you're wrong. |
EVE Roy Mustang
State War Academy Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 02:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Shea Valerien wrote:Most of us do. Don't let the great minority Mostly Goons Quote:of the mining population convince you otherwise.
|
Frying Doom
Tinfoil Hat News Ltd.
288
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 02:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Null > 0.0 > low sec > high sec > starting system
In otherwords your wrote a bunch of words that amount to ****, you're wrong. You left out Worm Holes, you know the place for the elite players of EvE. Its almost completely Null bear free Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
Bill Loney
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 02:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Null = 0.0 > low sec > high sec > starting system
|
Spineker
193
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 02:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
Isn't Bear a gay saying? Just asking. People just have to hunt down all those bears |
RAP ACTION HERO
53
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 04:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.
go back to the starting systems lol |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 05:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
ivar R'dhak wrote:And jet can mining was also never envisioned by CCP.
My take is that miners have finally woken up to how utterly griefer-centric this game actually is.
Hulkageddon isn-¦t about some OZOM emergent PVP game play but simply exploiting an obvious oversight in ship balancing and game design. It-¦s plain ridiculous that a a handful destroyers can so easily obliterate a supposedly hardy "HULK". Personally I-¦m actually grateful for the permanent Hulkageddon. Either CCP fixes their effin game or they can start mining in Jove battlehips themselves to save the game-¦s economy from keeling over. Hulks are too weak, huh?
Tell me, exactly how many warships should it take to destroy a single mining ship? Especially one fitted with no tank in under to maximize it's mining ability? 2? 4? Ten?
I'm gonna guess "Enough that I don't have to worry about losing my ~Max Yield~ Hulk in hi-sce, ever." |
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.
EvE isnt most MMOs. And hi-sec cannot be a 'starter area' like you suggest. You say that a starter area is somewhere someone stays for a couple days before moving on. I agree, this is how things usually work. But people dont leave hi-sec after a few days. Some people dont leave hi-sec after months. Some people never do.
You also imply that people move in a logical progression down to nullsec over the course of their playing. Now this is just impractical in EvE. There is often no reason to go into low sec so quickly unless you really want some pvp. Nullsec is just highsec but everything is a little "harder" so to speak. Regardless, because this is a sandbox, why SHOULD hi-sec be safe?
EvE has never sugar coated anything. They encouraged Burn Jita, you know why? Because EvE is practically an experiment, it is a place where they set up some mechanics and let a bunch of people run wild. Find me one case where a dev has specified hi-sec as a safe zone. Tip: youre not going to be able to.
|
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
288
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
Perhaps the pvp folk should stop complaining about whinging miners until they (the pvpers) stop whinging about covert ships in their pve 'mining with guns' systems. You want fries with that? |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
205
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Saved draft - Do you want to replace your current text with the draft?close.Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.
If you have to ask this question you'll probably never be able understand it. It's not about competition as much is it's about camaraderie and kindship with folk who do get hurt even when you haven't been. It's about offense at a minority of the player base pretending they are more righteous than the other 80% because they pvp differently - and in their arrogance try to force others to play the game the way they want them to ...or else.
You need a reality check if you think pvpers are free of whiney rants. We see pvpers constantly making stuff up about miners or just calling them names... accusing non-botting miners of botting, whining about the value of the material high seccers collect, whining about high sec income in general, whining about the value of ships high seccer can fly - I actually read some sec bigot go on the other day about how a noob in high sec could make 6 million an hour in a dead space plex as if it were an outrageous fortune.... Well, in my opinion null sec is too safe and too lucerative. In fact, it must be so safe as to be pretty boring right now.
As far as gankers helping me compete, I can compete just fine against other miners without ganker help - on level ground I'm competitive.. It's the demonization, ridicule, the egotistical comments, violent campaigns, and plain old rude statements against a whole profession that do nothing but strengthen the bond miners feel. There will be some who do not feel this of course (mostly noob or very occasional miners).. but the majority are offended for other miners they know who do lose ships and pods to suicide ganking "pvpers". You can't change that by killing more miners or by starting a rant threat in the forums.
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
205
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Spikeflach wrote:Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free. Hi sec is not a starting area. Hi sec does not consist of just 1.0 and .9 systems, it's all systems .6 up. (is .5 considered low or hi I can't rememer) Null > 0.0 > low sec > high sec > starting system The only starting areas, or systems, in the game are the ones that you start in as a new player. The moment you undock and leave that system, you've left the starting area. In otherwords your wrote a bunch of words that amount to ****, you're wrong.
.5 is high sec.. it's the bottom end. Congrats on making up new space zones..... (sic) [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Aramatheia
European Nuthouse
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:03:00 -
[52] - Quote
the miners who actually play the game, as in are awake and at thier machine such as myself stand to make alot of isk if the minerbash continues. Though i really wish the hulkageddoners would ramp up thier attacks on the bots.
The bots hurt me a ton more then the human miner who take 10-15 minutes to full thier hulks hold |
pussnheels
400
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is. that is a rethorical question isn't , would you like it when your 250 mil isk and 2 month long investment gets blown up just because you can not fight back by some whitetrash teenager who is scared to death losing his ship to a real person in actual pvp but doesn't mind losing his ship to a game mechanic I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
205
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Aramatheia wrote:the miners who actually play the game, as in are awake and at thier machine such as myself stand to make alot of isk if the minerbash continues. Though i really wish the hulkageddoners would ramp up thier attacks on the bots.
The bots hurt me a ton more then the human miner who take 10-15 minutes to full thier hulks hold
Don't fall for the propaganda. There are fewer bots out there than you think. Sure there are some.. but CCP has run very convincing campaigns to ban the bots significantly reducing their numbers.. so now with fewer bots to point to, non-miners are demonizing non-botters as botters so they can maintain their "righteous fury".....
You shouldn't have to depend on an artificial event run by people without your best interest in mind to make money mining .
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1051
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
Aramatheia wrote:Though i really wish the hulkageddoners would ramp up thier attacks on the bots.
The bots hurt me a ton more then the human miner who take 10-15 minutes to full thier hulks hold
I could be mistaken, but that was the intent when Hulkaggedon first started. To strike the bots. Now, they don't care who you are, if you are at the keyboard or not. You have a ship that costs 215m that can be blown up by a ship(s) that cost in total maybe 4m and are defenseless.
Oh and you are playing in the sandbox the wrong way.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Xuse Senna
Analog Folk SRS.
172
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.
o.O what are you doing in the Eve Forums :P D3 |
MakronKane
Titanium Duck Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
Just my 2p (Hi all btw)
Although I totally agree that as soon as you undock, you are a possible target, I have had thoughts that the current trend could impact the game as a whole. Largely down to new players, with their 21 day trials weighing up pros and cons of the game before committing to a monthly subscription. Only to be bombbarded by suicide gankers.
On one hand, I love EVE and on the other can see how hard this game must be if your new, throw on top the ganking, well two perfectly good reasons why they shouldnt subscribe.
This can also be said for some of the older players who possibly got fed up and simply quit.
Maybe they do need to up tank the Hulk or maybe they need to make "safe" start zones, where locking only works on roids and npc's. Something to address the balance, if anything, to create a more postive thought for your would be subscriber.
As, at the end of the day, no income, no game, easy as that really. |
Mr Sato
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
I guess some miners don't want pvp in high sec at all, but no one listens to those. From what I gather, the biggest (real) concern is how cheap a ship you really need to get some results as a ganker. Some would even go so far as call it effort-less as long as standing is not an issue, and I tend to agree.
|
Velicitia
Open Designs
982
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 09:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.
Great idea, but you're wrong. You might want to brush up on EVE History.
"Hisec" was never meant to be safe at all. It's just "safer", in order to allow you to pull yourself back up in the event that you lose everything. The "starter area" amounts to 12 systems across the four regions, there are an additional 12 "career agent" (i.e. tutorial agent) systemsas well. All 24 of these systems are protected from some of "typical" traps (can baiting, etc), and IIRC they are also 1.0 (though some might be 0.8/0.9, and I honestly don't care enough to check dotlan )
The only reason that hisec now includes such "features" as guaranteed death from CONCORD is because of certain groups in the past (m0o, zombies, et al.) who figured out how to tank CONCORD (more recently, boomerang tactics, etc have also been "fixed" with CONCORD insta-points). They were good enough at this stuff to force an ad-hoc dev event to break the blockade of the game's trading hub at the time (IIRC, Yulai).
Now, I missed those times (only started in '07) ... but after ~5 years of flying across k-space (generally as a carebear, or fail wannabe PvPer), I'm starting to believe that a lot of the troubles in hisec are caused by these simple facts:
1. hisec is too safe, and new people are coming with the wrong expectations. 2. lowsec is viewed to be crap. 3. nullsec has been too stagnant for too long. 4. bots 5. it's too easy to get stuff from the markets
I'm not gonna pretend to know enough about the mechanics to say what CCP needs to fix, or that the newest things WILL fix the troubles ... but we'll see.
1. Seems the new 'dec/crimewatch/etc mechanics will help here. It'll take getting used to, but I'm at least hopeful that they won't be any worse than now (and if they are ... might be time to explore w-space or something) 2. Not so sure on this one. Sure hisec is safer and nullsec has better materials ... but it seems that lowsec could be a pretty decent place once you get to know people (via diplomacy, or antimatter). 3. ban goos, rabble rabble. Honestly have been out of Null for far too long to really know what's going on here. 4. CCP Sreegs and team seem to be doing well in this regard (yay!) 5. Mineral prices keep going up, and we might see the resurgence of well-rounded corps, as "griefers" need to get their ships somehow. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7707
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers. GǪand miners, and manufacturers, and traders, andGǪ wellGǪ everyone. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers. GǪand miners, and manufacturers, and traders, andGǪ wellGǪ everyone.
Catalyst, blaster, blaster ammo, Tornado, arty, EMP L... all prices drop. Where do you see profit? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7707
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Catalyst, blaster, blaster ammo, Tornado, arty, EMP L... all prices drop. Where do you see profit? It's called GÇ£planningGÇ¥.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
nat longshot
New Eden Inc.
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:37:00 -
[64] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.
first off high sec yes a starting area 1.0 high sec that is.
Low sec and 0.0 pilots same to forget one thing about high sec if not for high sec's like jita,rens,dodixe and other high sec system were would you resupply your 0.0 corps/allinace how many jump freigher are seen daily jumping out of said systems with weapons,ammo and there others needs for 0.0 life are there trade hubs that big in low sec or 0.0 no there not for the reason high sec is safer to get what you need.
Were to you think all that stuff comes from well lets see yes from 0.0 some from low sec most other then stuff need to build cap ships and t2 and officer and high end faction gear it all comes from people like the ones getting ganked in high sec build the all that gear you use.
low sec and 0.0 could not work with out high sec players and if your that blind not to see that your a moron.
I hear player say get rid of high sec ok find oh wait there went all the nice high sec trade hubs for your corp/alliance to get resupplyed at.
In ending sure kill the miners and mission runners what will happen the game market witch is f's btw would get worse and higher in price. Btw killing high would kill the high end and officer markets no one would spend that killed of isk just to get gank by a blob.
Ive flown in 0.0 and low sec i do pvp but most of the time i pvp on my terms not some jackass's terms even under war dec its my terms when i deside to poke my head out and fire at a target.
o.o and low sec pilots get off your high horse your kill board dont do a damn thing for me other then show you like to pvp and in most case's in large numbers were you feel safer larger the fleets less likey you be the next one shot. keep ganking hulks and other high sec pilots like you are and more players will quit the game given how the markets looking if it keeps up ill call it a dead game in less then a year. And all thanks to morons like you and goons. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's called GÇ£planningGÇ¥.
You mean buying Covetor BPOs/BPCs and Hulk BPCs.
Again, gankers would profit from that. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7707
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Again, gankers would profit from that. GǪand miners, and industrialists, and traders.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
344
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 10:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Tippia wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers. GǪand miners, and manufacturers, and traders, andGǪ wellGǪ everyone. Catalyst, blaster, blaster ammo, Tornado, arty, EMP L... all prices drop. Where do you see profit?
Have you looked at ships and min costs recently ?
Tal
|
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:04:00 -
[68] - Quote
About dynamic PvE content: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115357&find=unread
Feel free to drop by and poke some holes in my idea. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:16:00 -
[69] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Have you looked at ships and min costs recently ?
Yes, mins did go up a lot recently, but now are going down again.
Catalyst and Tornado going down fast. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
344
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Talon SilverHawk wrote:Have you looked at ships and min costs recently ? Yes, mins did go up a lot recently, but now are going down again. Catalyst and Tornado going down fast.
That was going to happen anyway, Hi sec miners have got more canny, and there would come a point where the industrialists that stocked up ganking ships during Hulkaggeddon are suddenly finding they aren't selling as many as suicide ganks are probably dropping in numbers due to less hulks flown, gankers getting bored and miners getting smart, leading to over supply.
Tal |
|
Tenchi Sal
Dust Bunnies 514
85
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:47:00 -
[71] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:I was actually looking forward to it, being hunted in highsec would have been fun, because it would have been sort of like nul, except no need to be super involved with your alliance.
you've obviously never been to null. thats carebear/bot land. you are more safer in null then you are empire. plenty and plenty of empty, unused space where you will be lucky to see a single person pass through that day. its carebear central. |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
193
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 12:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote: Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
they complain. Not sure if they whine less than your miners do.
They complain not about D-Scan or loosing of shiny ships. They whine about local (did you see miner whining about it?), they whine about FW (did you see miners whining about it?), they whine about "no risk in high-sec" (did you see miners whining about it?), sov, weapons, ships, etc...etc... etc...
Everybody whine. Reasons differ but whining won't end....
|
Jalabaster
Mechanical Eagles Inc. The Ancients.
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:23:00 -
[73] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Bingo. The serious miners are out there, mining. They are smart enough to minimize risk, and enjoy the current economic situation. End of story.
Smart hisec miners likely have some experience with living in areas outside of hisec. They know how to read local, d-scan, a plethora of other things about combat, egagement, timers, and a better understanding of dynamic traffic flow patterns. They are simply better prepared than their peers in the same career field.
And why should they post and give up their tricks? Nay, you come to the forums to cry, not to give away your trade secrets. "when a ship is blown up, the pilot usually winds up replacing it. This drives the economy, steadies inflation, and gives industrialists a reason to manufacture. In contrast, creating isk while never losing any items has the unfortunate reverse effect on the market, plus it isn't really any fun." Jala |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
114
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:It's simple: there's no profit to be made. Only ones profiting from this event are gankers. GǪand miners, and manufacturers, and traders, andGǪ wellGǪ everyone.
Don't forget refiners. Rising mineral prices makes us very happy. In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
237
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 13:44:00 -
[75] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.
I think mostly it's the violation of the "Empire is relatively safer" idea. Any carebear who plays EVE beyond the first month is reconciled to getting blown up occasionally. (The carebears of EVE are made of stern stuff :) ) But when it's a concerted campaign, that's something different - then it's edging into something more like schoolyard bullying. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1171
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
Jalabaster wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone? Bingo. The serious miners are out there, mining. They are smart enough to minimize risk, and enjoy the current economic situation. End of story. Smart hisec miners likely have some experience with living in areas outside of hisec. They know how to read local, d-scan, a plethora of other things about combat, egagement, timers, and a better understanding of dynamic traffic flow patterns. They are simply better prepared than their peers in the same career field. And why should they post and give up their tricks? Nay, you come to the forums to cry, not to give away your trade secrets.
Why on earth would such a player still mine? And admitting it is for the compelling passion for digging, why would he be wasting all this expertise in hi sec for the pittance income? It makes no sense. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Velicitia
Open Designs
984
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is. I think mostly it's the violation of the "Empire is relatively safer" idea. Any carebear who plays EVE beyond the first month is reconciled to getting blown up occasionally. (The carebears of EVE are made of stern stuff :) ) But when it's a concerted campaign that's now ongoing, that's something different - then it's edging into something more like schoolyard bullying. The economic arguments are absolutely correct, Hulkageddon is good for miners and good for the game, but there's also the aspect of the game being a form of relaxation for many players (again, granted that there's always going to be some risk).
I agree with this, except for the fact that we need a new title...
"Old" carebear (say '07-'09 era, may have been this way since the beginning, but I didn't start til '07) was the people who mined and ran missions, though (in my experience anyway) these people still knew/accepted that they could be violenced anywhere, at any time, for any reason. Essentially it was "PvPer" and "carebear", and for the most part people worked together for stuff.
There were more than a few times in my first 2-3 months that "hey [pilot] flipped my can, keep an eye out for him" was a common occurrence from the miners (myself included) ... and on nearly all of those occasions the mining people would gang up to share intel (in retrospect, a channel would have been better, but hey, was young and dumb then )
"new" carebear -- for whatever reason are 100% averse to the idea that they can get (legally) violenced, and pretty much just scream to CCP to "fix" the "problem" with griefing or whatever. It's sad, actually.
|
Velicitia
Open Designs
984
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:19:00 -
[78] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Jalabaster wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone? Bingo. The serious miners are out there, mining. They are smart enough to minimize risk, and enjoy the current economic situation. End of story. Smart hisec miners likely have some experience with living in areas outside of hisec. They know how to read local, d-scan, a plethora of other things about combat, egagement, timers, and a better understanding of dynamic traffic flow patterns. They are simply better prepared than their peers in the same career field. And why should they post and give up their tricks? Nay, you come to the forums to cry, not to give away your trade secrets. Why on earth would such a player still mine? And admitting it is for the compelling passion for digging, why would he be wasting all this expertise in hi sec for the pittance income? It makes no sense.
Me, because it's relaxing. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
306
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:26:00 -
[79] - Quote
The fact that all the attention paid to the game these days is in high sec says a lot about the situation in nullsec, IMO.
You'd think, given the tools provided by CCP, and the absolute freedom to forge your own empires, that all the focus would be on nullsec and what all the various alliances are doing there and who's at war with one another, and how the wars are progressing.
Nope.
All the focus is about blowing up miners in high sec (at least as far as the forums go).
Is this an adversion to actual risk thing, or a total stagnation in nullsec thing, or something else?
I recall in WoW, when things got stagnant in the endgame, folks would go to the newb areas or to lowbie towns to gank, until Blizzard reacted and put more security measures in place. This sort of thing faded away to some degree after that.
To me, the current behaviour is a big wake up call that the so called endgame is broken in some way. Could even be the playerbases doing, given the level of freedom we have with regard to nullsec gameplay. Seriously, given the scope of the game, doesn't anyone else find it kinda stupid we are playing blow up the bottom feeders in EvE online?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7711
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:47:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:All the focus is about blowing up miners in high sec (at least as far as the forums go).
Is this an adversion to actual risk thing, or a total stagnation in nullsec thing, or something else? A bit from column B, a bit from column C.
HGGêP is just the goons being bored because of the nullsec stagnation, and the leadership giving the kittens a new ball of yarn to play with to stave off that boredom. It's also a case of GÇ£we've been telling you that this whole tech thing is bad, but if you're not going to fix it, we're going to exploit-áhave fun with it.GÇ¥
On top of this, there's the GÇ£educationGÇ¥ angle: the more people are clamouring for highsec to be safe, the more reason there is to not just say GÇ£noGÇ¥, but to actually show it. The fact that this generates all kinds of forum rage and that this very directly tickles the funny-bones of a forum based community such as, say, SA, is just icing on the cake and provides yet another ball of yarn for the kittens to chase. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
|
Research Barbie
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:49:00 -
[81] - Quote
My complaint about Dessie Gankers is simple: In High Sec they are the only ones who fly safe from ganks. The reason is simply, it takes more than one frigate to be able to put enough damage on an unfitted dessie in the time allowed by Concord. And, there is no point in simply trading one dessie for another. As a result there is no way to make a profit from killing the gankers.
So dessie pilots get to practice their trade risk free, the guaranteed loss of a ship isn't risk its an expense like mining crystals. They can fly around and feel superior to everyone as the mining ships flee when they come into a system.
Tornado and other gank boats do run a risk of being ganked because there is enough value in their ships for others to do the same things to them, as a result they do run the risk of being counter ganked.
So the Dessie ganker has become what he hates. A risk averse Hi Sec NPC alt mostly, who flies around in a ship unsuited for combat because he is safe from being aggressed, and attacks ships with basically the same aggressive capacity as a rock, mining miners. While screaming at the top of his lungs how elite he is and how everyone needs to play the game like him and how we should all thank him for teaching us the realities of Eve. Sheesh get over yourself already.
This is my first post with this alt or any other alt on any of my accounts in 3 years. As her name implies she is not a pvp alt so don't bother looking up her record. I have never lost a mining ship during any Hulkageddon. When this one was announced I starting training up some alts so I could attack the dessie gankers until I figured out that there was no way to defeat a dessie in the time frame available with a ship that economically justified the attack. |
Eyhoma
White-Noise
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:14:00 -
[82] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Ban Bindy wrote:The point of high sec mining is that it does not have to require total attention. Don't play the game AFK. The game is not designed with this kind of play style in mind and you should never consider your ship and character safe and just get up and walk away from your computer.
Wow, you should tell that to a guy I know who camps a certain system 23/7 and occasionally lights a cynosural field for his stealth bombing buddies. He would be very surprised to know he should not get up and walk away from his computer and consider his ship safe.
If fact I think he be shocked at the news. Or laugh in your face. More the latter really. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
720
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Most, if not all, of MMOs have a starting area, for eve that is "hi-sec". Unfortunately "Hi-Sec" mutated into something different than what was likely intended and it causes issues between people who live in hi sec, and people who live in low and 0.0 space.
Usually people leave the starting area after a few days, but the mutation of hi sec and the politics of low and 0.0 space doesn't effectively give the players a place to move on to.
So you effectively get people who believe hi-sec shouldn't be so easily infested with criminals, while others believe in the mutated hi sec of which criminals can easily run free.
No flame here, but hisec is safer now than ever before. The mechanics have been slowly gearing hisec to be safer and safer for years. It was never intended to be 'safe' merely safer than lowsec and nullsec. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:26:00 -
[84] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:
2. lowsec is viewed to be crap.
This view will never change as long as the current sec status system is in operation. Low sec only benefits pirates and gankers because if some gung ho PVPers decided to go anti-pirate they also lose sec status for removing the threat. So in the current system even if you could convince a mining op to go into low sec their defenders will get criminal flagged unless they await the other guy to fire first.
So people mine mostly in High Sec where in theory there is some minor CONCORD protection, or they go into Null where their defenders can shoot first.(NBSI and all that)
In simple terms, Low Sec will not ever become popular unless Defense does not have to always remain at the disadvantage in doing their job. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
207
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:25:00 -
[85] - Quote
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:Velicitia wrote:
2. lowsec is viewed to be crap.
This view will never change as long as the current sec status system is in operation. Low sec only benefits pirates and gankers because if some gung ho PVPers decided to go anti-pirate they also lose sec status for removing the threat. So in the current system even if you could convince a mining op to go into low sec their defenders will get criminal flagged unless they await the other guy to fire first. So people mine mostly in High Sec where in theory there is some minor CONCORD protection, or they go into Null where their defenders can shoot first.(NBSI and all that) In simple terms, Low Sec will not ever become popular unless Defense does not have to always remain at the disadvantage in doing their job.
Low Sec has always been thought of as no mans land - a buffer between null sec and empire.. and that's the way null seccers like it - nothing you do short of turning eve earning power on it's head will ever change that. .. and even then you would not be luring as many high seccer into low sec as large null sec alliances which would then try to completely control low sec. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Lenier Chenal
Meritoc Industries Inc. SRS.
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.
Seeing Covert Kitty posting |
Velicitia
Open Designs
990
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 19:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:Velicitia wrote:
2. lowsec is viewed to be crap.
This view will never change as long as the current sec status system is in operation. Low sec only benefits pirates and gankers because if some gung ho PVPers decided to go anti-pirate they also lose sec status for removing the threat. So in the current system even if you could convince a mining op to go into low sec their defenders will get criminal flagged unless they await the other guy to fire first. So people mine mostly in High Sec where in theory there is some minor CONCORD protection, or they go into Null where their defenders can shoot first.(NBSI and all that) In simple terms, Low Sec will not ever become popular unless Defense does not have to always remain at the disadvantage in doing their job.
... I like lowsec... |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
448
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
Disruptive events such as Permageddon create opportunities for profit that can be exploited by the intelligent, the daring, and the creative.
Highsec miners, being none of these things, are unable to take advantage. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Nostradamouse Riraille
Blackreach. SRS.
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:23:00 -
[89] - Quote
Yup, I'll have to agree, for any intelligent miner, those are good times indeed... |
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards Hades.
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:57:00 -
[90] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:.... while those copy pasting famous WW2 ideology apologetic texts could carry on and repeat the "concepts" ad nauseam. Now, I might sound picky, but considering I had grandfathers who got almost killed by the militias following those ideologies I felt personally affected. Did you seriously just play the holocaust card for a video game? :/ I think she (he?) is Italian.
BTW V V, my grandpa was in Italy during the war too. On the other side, granted. Hulk Insurance Services: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=115786 --Gap coverage to help cover the difference between SCC maximum payout and the market price of your Hulk. -á --All policies refundable upon request. |
|
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
138
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:08:00 -
[91] - Quote
Search not working for you, OP? |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
65
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 16:36:00 -
[92] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Disruptive events such as Permageddon create opportunities for profit that can be exploited by the intelligent, the daring, and the creative.
Highsec miners, being none of these things, are unable to take advantage.
Lets ask Chribba about that statement shall we? |
ian papabear
The Syndicate Inc En Garde
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 16:57:00 -
[93] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.
eh rookie ship suicide gank your own hulk have concord sit in the belt with you for a few hours , youre safe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_FJBdQUAO4 |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
79
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 17:01:00 -
[94] - Quote
ian papabear wrote:
eh rookie ship suicide gank your own hulk have concord sit in the belt with you for a few hours , youre safe
Didn't someone somewhere say that pulling concord is an exploit? |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
80
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 18:11:00 -
[95] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo wrote:People like to confuse the idea of high security systems to 0.0 systems. Somehow they moronically get it into their heads that all areas of the game need to be the same security rating. They think that because someone has access to veldspar that it is on par with 0.0 ores, therefore they should assume the same level of risk. That is absolutely stupid. Your absolutely correct, for example, highsec miners make an improper risk/reward decision when they use a 200mil ship for an income of like 5-10mil/hr. If your in nullsec, you can apparently make more like 90-100mil /hr. That ratio is completely, utterly, out of line, and yes you would be "absolutely stupid" to make that choice. It's like using an officer fit nightmare run missions. Sure, people do it, but people pay for it pretty regularly as well. If your goal is to make isk, fly a ship that best matches your expected income. That's the whole point
Agreed.
A few months ago, I attracted the attention of mission gankers. This isn't usually a problem with me ...and these mission gankers tried to nab me several times over 2 weeks and they...didn't....lack imagination.
I had to sit back and analyze why I was targeted. Did my big mouth irritate someone? Always a possibility :). However, I looked at my missioning ship and realized that I had had 'module creep' and that my ship was much more shiney than it used to be. I didn't do this concsiously but it happened.
Therefore, I re-adjusted my fit back to more sanity...and haven't had much trouble since.
Proper equipment (risk) for the appropriate reward. If you can't make Isk without huge risk then it isn't an activity one should be doing. |
Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
80
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 18:11:00 -
[96] - Quote
Nuela wrote:Covert Kitty wrote:[quote=AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo]People like to confuse the idea of high security systems to 0.0 systems. Somehow they moronically get it into their heads that all areas of the game need to be the same security rating. They think that because someone has access to veldspar that it is on par with 0.0 ores, therefore they should assume the same level of risk. That is absolutely stupid. Your absolutely correct, for example, highsec miners make an improper risk/reward decision when they use a 200mil ship for an income of like 5-10mil/hr. If your in nullsec, you can apparently make more like 90-100mil /hr. That ratio is completely, utterly, out of line, and yes you would be "absolutely stupid" to make that choice. It's like using an officer fit nightmare run missions. Sure, people do it, but people pay for it pretty regularly as well. If your goal is to make isk, fly a ship that best matches your expected income. That's the whole point
Agreed.
A few months ago, I attracted the attention of mission gankers. This isn't usually a problem with me ...and these mission gankers tried to nab me several times over 2 weeks and they...didn't....lack imagination.
I had to sit back and analyze why I was targeted. Did my big mouth irritate someone? Always a possibility :). However, I looked at my missioning ship and realized that I had had 'module creep' and that my ship was much more shiney than it used to be. I didn't do this concsiously but it happened.
Therefore, I re-adjusted my fit back to more sanity...and haven't had much trouble since.
Proper equipment (risk) for the appropriate reward. If you can't make Isk without undo risk then it isn't an activity one should be doing. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
472
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 19:01:00 -
[97] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:point of view Because there is more than one person playing eve....
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
WolfeReign
The Dead Rabbit Society
11
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 19:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Covert Kitty wrote:It seems to me (if I were a miner) I would be happy as hell seeing my competition getting blown up. It's easy to avoid getting ganked by simply moving to some backwater system, or simply paying attention. Using cheaper mining ships with a higher risk vs reward ratio would also ensure I profit from the situation at large. Prices go up, and the miners make more money right?
So why the sh|t-storm? Or is it that only the incompetent miners are here complaining to everyone?
Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they have to watch dscan, or align at the right time? Do you see PvP'ers complaining that they lost their shiny ship? (don't be pedantic here, I'm not talking about unfortunate events like lag)
So what makes you special? The moment any of us undock, you are checking the yes box to pvp. IMO highsec is far too uniform and safe as it is.
To me Hulkageddon is a time of opportunity because all of the ore I mine sells for more :) my alt hasn't lost a hulk yet to hulkageddon |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
204
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 20:17:00 -
[99] - Quote
Research Barbie wrote:..... So the Dessie ganker has become what he hates. A risk averse Hi Sec NPC alt mostly, who flies around in a ship unsuited for combat because he is safe from being aggressed, and attacks ships with basically the same aggressive capacity as a rock, mining miners.
..... Hulkageddon. When this one was announced I starting training up some alts so I could attack the dessie gankers until I figured out that there was no way to defeat a dessie in the time frame available with a ship that economically justified the attack.
I'll admit I havn't looked into this carefully but, I find it hard to believe that you can't tank a hulk against a destroyers suicide gank attempt. Or is it that they do it with several at once?
------------- Below here is not directed at the above quote ----------------
Regardless, one really shouldn't be flying a hulk to mine in highsec if your not willing to pay attention to local, short range dscan, and not be afk, the risk/reward ratio is simply not justifiable. Lets say your hulk is worth 250 mil, and your pulling in 23 mil /hr mining in highsec (I'm just guessing at these numbers, so forgive me if I'm somewhat off, focus on my core point)
250 / 23 = 10 hrs to pay for your hulk should you be destroyed
say a covetor costs you about 35? Perhaps your profitability drops a little? I was told they are about 80% as effective as a hulk.
35 / 19 = 1.8 hrs to pay off the ship
So, if your prone to getting ganked, or you plan on not paying attention / going afk etc. Match your risk, with your expected rewards such that you WILL be making a consistent profit. Remember the goal is to make isk, not loose it. Note here that I'm not saying don't go afk, we all take measured risks regularly in this game. I'm saying that if you do decide to take on extra risk, ensure you are aware of it, and manage that risk so you don't get bit harder than you want. When you undock, assume your going to die sooner or later. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |