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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1522
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Posted - 2012.06.26 18:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:
Really? I've never seen police just take down people for sitting somewhere.
LOL!
You are the first person I have met that lives in an isolated utopian society in which any news from the real world is either ignored by, or censored out from your access to it.
Either that or you are just stupid vOv
Mr Epeen
There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
601
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:THE L0CK wrote:
Really? I've never seen police just take down people for sitting somewhere.
LOL! You are the first person I have met that lives in an isolated utopian society in which any news from the real world is either ignored by, or censored out from your access to it. Either that or you are just stupid vOv Mr Epeen
Again, link me an example where an ex-con was arrested or removed from a public area while he was just sitting there. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
stoicfaux
1164
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cargo (and ship) scanners can be used for market research and can be used to glean intelligence about The Enemy's logistics, supply situation, and possible future actions.
Now as for the faction navies and sentry guns shooting known gankers (i.e. anyone with a sec status of less than 5.0,) I'm all for that.
edit: Okay, maybe 5.0 is a bit harsh on newbies. Starter systems should be immune and should dump newbies into null-sec so they can rat their sec status up.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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reamau
30
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Quote: WHY do faction navys and concord tolerate KNOWN gankers sitting on gates? IRL if the police saw a group of people sat outside a bank in a car and their all known and have records for violent armed robberys of banks they'd take action to remove said bank robbers, so again WHY do faction navys and concord allow known gankers to sit on gates with impunity doing nothing to move them on etc? :)
Really? I've never seen police just take down people for sitting somewhere. I mean if that were the case I would never be able to stop my vehicle as I'm a repeat parking ticket offender. But then again maybe you live in Russia or something where they just steal you off the streets. Just how often do the police sit around a bank taking photographs of people in cars, downloading the picture to their computer, and running a scan? Do they do this for other crimes as well? Maybe scope out the old man sitting at a bench in the park because he just may be a child molester rather than somebody who is just enjoying a day in the park. Better watch that person at the gas station who is buying a snickers because he could have made a counterfeit bill there.
Its more like a bunch of white pedo-vans camped outside an elementary school. You know what they are, but can't do anything until they strike.
Thats my personal objection to the whole hi-sec ganking. I have to wait till they gank me, then I can't even shoot their npc-corp alts that come in and scoop up your stuff. The gankers aren't taking any risk- they are calculatedly sacrificing their ship (known value).
I have no problem with "hi-sec isn't safe", but I'd like kill rights for a month on every pilot that looted my wreck as well.
GëívGëí Inferno: almost as fun as chewing used medical syringes. |
Farley genocent
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:10:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sure.
While they are at it they can reduce the EHP and make it 100% drop rate.
Cheers. |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe
120
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Now as for the faction navies and sentry guns shooting known gankers (i.e. anyone with a sec status of less than 5.0,) I'm all for that.
You're kidding right? You do realize that puts everyone that PvPs in LowSec in the OwnZone
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
887
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
reamau wrote:Quote: WHY do faction navys and concord tolerate KNOWN gankers sitting on gates? IRL if the police saw a group of people sat outside a bank in a car and their all known and have records for violent armed robberys of banks they'd take action to remove said bank robbers, so again WHY do faction navys and concord allow known gankers to sit on gates with impunity doing nothing to move them on etc? :)
Really? I've never seen police just take down people for sitting somewhere. I mean if that were the case I would never be able to stop my vehicle as I'm a repeat parking ticket offender. But then again maybe you live in Russia or something where they just steal you off the streets. Just how often do the police sit around a bank taking photographs of people in cars, downloading the picture to their computer, and running a scan? Do they do this for other crimes as well? Maybe scope out the old man sitting at a bench in the park because he just may be a child molester rather than somebody who is just enjoying a day in the park. Better watch that person at the gas station who is buying a snickers because he could have made a counterfeit bill there.
Its more like a bunch of white pedo-vans camped outside an elementary school. You know what they are, but can't do anything until they strike. Thats my personal objection to the whole hi-sec ganking. I have to wait till they gank me, then I can't even shoot their npc-corp alts that come in and scoop up your stuff. The gankers aren't taking any risk- they are calculatedly sacrificing their ship (known value). I have no problem with "hi-sec isn't safe", but I'd like kill rights for a month on every pilot that looted my wreck as well. What about the small, but still existent, risk that their calculated loss will be greater than their gain? |
MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
482
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:23:00 -
[38] - Quote
There is nothing wrong with the cargo scanners, and I am a hauler. In fact, I kind of like them because when I fly empty it lets all the gankers know that I am not worth the time and therefore I can relax a little bit and go grab a drink or something when I dead head.
Then again, I rarely haul enough of anything of value to make myself a tempting target. I armor for the value of the cargo, or I work around it in stages. Yes, I have split my cargo in to smaller chunks in dangerous areas to reduce the likelihood of getting ganked, it just seemed like the right thing to do (like moving ANYTHING out of Jita) . I also have a few systems blocked on the auto pilot when they are seeing a lot of action, but also to force an indirect route when I ask for one. If it is valuable, a couple extra jumps never hurt, even in a freighter.
Things I fly: Mammoths with shield extenders/resist holes plugged Prowler for medium fast work - cloaky Cheetah for really small fast work - cloaky Orca for large but valuable stuff (only in corp hangar, low value only in the cargo hold) Fenrir for high-volume low-value cargo only Typhoon - small valuable cargo, dual-tanked (144k ehp or something like that)
One ship that I have never flown is the Mastadon. Even though it does have a much better tank, that extra 3 seconds to align and run are often the same three seconds that make the difference between the heavies locking you and you leaving. If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Luh Windan
S T R A T C O M Persona Non Gratis
65
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
So the OP wants indiscriminate ganking of ships in high sec.
Didn't the Goons just have a go at that. I'm sure they could be persuaded to do it again.
Gankings kind of fun and not scanning would at least take the boring part away - more targets.
Something for a rainy day ..... |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
601
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
I stand corrected, it turns out the OP already posted a link over in OOPE about a guy who is being moved by the cops for just standing around after committing a infraction. Thanks for the prime example OP Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
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Blastcaps Madullier
Celestial Horizon Corp.
42
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:I stand corrected, it turns out the OP already posted a link over in OOPE about a guy who is being moved by the cops for just standing around after committing a infraction. Thanks for the prime example OP
if your refering to the one with the 2 links in thats something else, and well read the post, read the articles linked and go from there, thats off topic though.
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stoicfaux
1164
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Now as for the faction navies and sentry guns shooting known gankers (i.e. anyone with a sec status of less than 5.0,) I'm all for that. You're kidding right? You do realize that puts everyone that PvPs in LowSec in the OwnZone Dude. If a bunch of gangbangers were known to drive around in the desert (lo-sec) shooting at each other with firearms, would you allow them into your (hi-sec) gated community?
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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THE L0CK
Denying You Access
601
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:THE L0CK wrote:I stand corrected, it turns out the OP already posted a link over in OOPE about a guy who is being moved by the cops for just standing around after committing a infraction. Thanks for the prime example OP if your refering to the one with the 2 links in thats something else, and well read the post, read the articles linked and go from there, thats off topic though.
I did do all that hence why I said thanks for the prime example. It's good to have somebody actually provide proof when asked for it and I applaud you sir, not like the other 2 in the previous pages who couldn't bring their game on. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe
120
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Rer Eirikr wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Now as for the faction navies and sentry guns shooting known gankers (i.e. anyone with a sec status of less than 5.0,) I'm all for that. You're kidding right? You do realize that puts everyone that PvPs in LowSec in the OwnZone Dude. If a bunch of gangbangers were known to drive around in the desert (lo-sec) shooting at each other with firearms, would you allow them into your (hi-sec) gated community?
You really must be dumb if you think everyone in LowSec is a "gangbanger".
And yes, I'm posting and calling someone dumb, because its warranted. |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:the only use for a cargo scanner in high-sec is to scan ships to see if what their carrying is worth ganking them for it aka piracy. Its time to put the risk vs reward back into ganking, because the formula for costs for ganking a freighter has long been worked out, removing the ability to use cargo scanners in highsec would then force the jita gankers for example to have to take the RISK that said freighter thats just jumped through the gate might or might not be carrying anything or even enough to cover the costs of the ships and mods used to gank said freighter, which also brings me to the next point.
Excuse me, but low sec and 0.0 sec already got an infallible scanner for freigthers.
They pop them and then check what's inside.
Therefore moving the scanner out of hi sec is redundant and inefficient.
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Blastcaps Madullier
Celestial Horizon Corp.
43
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Posted - 2012.06.26 20:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:THE L0CK wrote:I stand corrected, it turns out the OP already posted a link over in OOPE about a guy who is being moved by the cops for just standing around after committing a infraction. Thanks for the prime example OP if your refering to the one with the 2 links in thats something else, and well read the post, read the articles linked and go from there, thats off topic though. I did do all that hence why I said thanks for the prime example. It's good to have somebody actually provide proof when asked for it and I applaud you sir, not like the other 2 in the previous pages who couldn't bring their game on.
Hope you signed in the second link and ty if you did :)
reason not saying what that post in the out of pod section of the forums is, is because it's off topic here and secondly would like people to actualy read the article in the first link then goto the second link after they have done :) |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
603
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Posted - 2012.06.26 20:42:00 -
[47] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:THE L0CK wrote:I stand corrected, it turns out the OP already posted a link over in OOPE about a guy who is being moved by the cops for just standing around after committing a infraction. Thanks for the prime example OP if your refering to the one with the 2 links in thats something else, and well read the post, read the articles linked and go from there, thats off topic though. I did do all that hence why I said thanks for the prime example. It's good to have somebody actually provide proof when asked for it and I applaud you sir, not like the other 2 in the previous pages who couldn't bring their game on. Hope you signed in the second link and ty if you did :) reason not saying what that post in the out of pod section of the forums is, is because it's off topic here and secondly would like people to actualy read the article in the first link then goto the second link after they have done :)
Of course I didn't sign it, certainly not after you showed me the error of my ways. You were right, it helps to get these criminals off the streets. I feel sorry for that man, I heard that US inmates love the British accent. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
stoicfaux
1164
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Posted - 2012.06.26 21:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote: You really must be dumb if you think everyone in LowSec is a "gangbanger".
And yes, I'm posting and calling someone dumb, because its warranted.
For context if your required 5.0 for everyone to safely fly around HighSec without getting Concordinated, then no one who PvPs in LowSec would be allowed back in, unless they re-ratted their way back to 5.0, which is ludicrous.
People engaging in unsanctioned, murderous violence for violence's sake wouldn't be welcome in a sane society except as entertainment or as a cash cow for therapists and psychologists to milk.
Realistically, it's simply ludicrious to think that fine upstanding people with a strong sense of community would want a bunch of unstable individuals living in their town, when those individuals have a proven, verifiable, willful tendency to engage in murder and property destruction at the drop of a hat.
Go to null-sec if you want to act like an animal. Just don't be surprised if high sec treats you like a rabid beast and quarantines you.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Hikaru Kuroda
Shimai of New Eden
61
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Posted - 2012.06.26 21:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
What we need is consequences for being good or evil, not the sec status system we currently have.
You commit a couple of crimes in high sec? You'll be punished if you come back to the same region, to the same system, to the same ever-camped gate. CONCORD will remember your name forever.
High sec should be a relatively "safe" place, but not for terrorists, pirates, or suicide gankers. They're actually taking less risks than every other player because they outsmarted poorly designed game mechanics. |
Blastcaps Madullier
Celestial Horizon Corp.
44
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Posted - 2012.06.26 21:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote: Of course I didn't sign it, certainly not after you showed me the error of my ways. You were right, it helps to get these criminals off the streets. I feel sorry for that man, I heard that US inmates love the British accent.
fair enough end of the day that is upto you :)
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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
102
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Posted - 2012.06.26 21:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
What about these 3 overlooked points?
1 - I have never seen cargo scanning OUTSIDE of highsec.
2 - There is always a RISK nothing will drop.
3 - And finally, suicide gankers must be cost-efficient, which means they HAVE to bring the least amount of DPS needed to complete the gank. Everyone can overkill but then you cut into your (potential *see point 2) gains. |
Syllviaa
Dominus Nex Angelus
0
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Posted - 2012.06.26 21:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:the only use for a cargo scanner in high-sec is to scan ships to see if what their carrying is worth ganking them for it aka piracy.
Working as intended.
Free CCP Zymurgist Free RubyPorto Free Talon SilverHawk Free Malacath Azaria IB4TS |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1669
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Posted - 2012.06.26 21:46:00 -
[53] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:the only use for a cargo scanner in high-sec is to scan ships to see if what their carrying is worth ganking them for it aka piracy. Its time to put the risk vs reward back into ganking, because the formula for costs for ganking a freighter has long been worked out, removing the ability to use cargo scanners in highsec would then force the jita gankers for example to have to take the RISK that said freighter thats just jumped through the gate might or might not be carrying anything or even enough to cover the costs of the ships and mods used to gank said freighter, which also brings me to the next point.
WHY do faction navys and concord tolerate KNOWN gankers sitting on gates? IRL if the police saw a group of people sat outside a bank in a car and their all known and have records for violent armed robberys of banks they'd take action to remove said bank robbers, so again WHY do faction navys and concord allow known gankers to sit on gates with impunity doing nothing to move them on etc? :)
LOL
Sorry, but they only really have one use, and its precisely what you want removed.
No.
If you don't want to lose freighters, ******* ship smart and don't haul ridiculous amounts of expensive ****. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Ibrihm Esenhorn
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.26 21:47:00 -
[54] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:the only use for a cargo scanner in high-sec is to scan ships to see if what their carrying is worth ganking them for it aka piracy.
Uh, no. I'd rather not get randomly jumped on the occasions when I'm running around empty. |
Deuce of Hearts
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.26 22:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
I once hauled a bunch of PLEXes into Jita with a Reaper just for the thrill. Now what kind of fun would that be if you already knew no one can possibly find out what you've got? Sadly no one even targeted me. :( |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1669
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Posted - 2012.06.26 22:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Deuce of Hearts wrote:I once hauled a bunch of PLEXes into Jita with a Reaper just for the thrill. Now what kind of fun would that be if you already knew no one can possibly find out what you've got? Sadly no one even targeted me. :(
You can't, in fact, know that.
Most ships with a scanner will run a passive targetter as well. No need to alert the ship you are vetting to the fact that a gank squad has it in their sights. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective Choke Point
69
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Posted - 2012.06.26 22:07:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cargo scanners are very useful for a multitude of things - not just planning a suicide gank. I personally use them to monitor what our enemies are moving into their highsec logistics hub, which can be invaluable in a war effort.
For the record, I also believe that suicide ganking is a good thing. Perhaps ganking is too easy at the moment, but every time the risk is reduced in highsec this game loses a bit more of its soul. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8229
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Posted - 2012.06.26 22:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:the only use for a cargo scanner in high-sec is to scan ships to see if what their carrying is worth ganking them for it aka piracy. Incorrect. Request denied.
Quote:Its time to put the risk vs reward back into ganking It's already there. People just choose to reduce the risk for the gankers by being stupid about how they fit their ships and transport their stuff. That's a people problem, and not something that can (or should) be fixed through ill-conceived mechanics changes.
Quote:WHY do faction navys and concord tolerate KNOWN gankers sitting on gates? Because they've paid their dues and are now considered reformed and upstanding citizens. It also has nothing to do with cargo scanners, so why are you asking?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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None ofthe Above
277
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Posted - 2012.06.26 22:17:00 -
[59] - Quote
Making them unusable in high sec seems very wrong.
But I admit that it does annoy me sometimes to be scanned and my only options are suicide gank or wardec. Its a good point about obvious accomplices to piracy hanging about being not only tolerated but protected by CONCORD and local authorities.
Being scanned is a mildly (passive) aggressive action.
It would be interesting to see that count as theft (of information in this case). The target and his corp could get a fifteen minute aggression timer. (Suspect flag post crimewatch revamp, if that is still happening?)
That would liven things up around Jita.
PS - Good question about passive targeting systems. Would this be included too, or not since it can't be detected? Left to the discretion of the devs in the event they decide to act on this thought.
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Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1319
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Posted - 2012.06.26 22:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:WHY do faction navys and concord tolerate KNOWN gankers sitting on gates? IRL if the police saw a group of people sat outside a bank in a car and their all known and have records for violent armed robberys of banks they'd take action to remove said bank robbers, so again WHY do faction navys and concord allow known gankers to sit on gates with impunity doing nothing to move them on etc? :)
Police serve and protect, CONCORD's only there to provide consequences. Two different things. "Eve isnGÇÖt some welcoming online utopia: itGÇÖs cut-throat, cruel, atavistic despite the futuristic setting. Give people a sandbox, and theyGÇÖll throw the sand in a rivalGÇÖs eyes before kicking them in the shins and destroying their sandcastle." -Keza MacDonald, IGN. |
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