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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.18 23:24:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
Train two characters up to max effectiveness with an Incursus. Now give one of those characters another 70 million SP. Both characters are now flying an Incursus at 100 %, but the higher SP character's risk when he undocks his incursus is now arbitrarily a couple dozen/hundred times the first character's. Arbitrary punishment for training is not good design.
one is stuck flying an incursis, the other can say lol he is flying an incursis and undock a vexor. or damn near any other subcap in game.
Irrelevant, we're not arguing whether SP are useful here. In said specific situation, the higher SP character is being arbitrarily punished. That is -all- that matters.
No.
You choose to continue training skills in order to fly a wide range of ships effectively.
If you told me I could fly an incursis and replace my pods cheaply or fly a ton of different ships at the cost of more expensive clones I would (and do) choose to continue training SP.
There is nothing arbitrary here, it's a simple concept. The more you train, the more ship you can fly with better results at the cost of paying more to replace clones. You are given total freedom what to train and how far to train it. If you don't like the decisions you made then make better ones in the future rather than ***** about it.
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.19 00:12:00 -
[2]
Originally by: b1zz I see no choice there Ephemeron. You've stated three 'choices' that are the same: old toon, you are forbidden from progressing beyond this point. What you're really saying is that you want older toons to be brought back to younger toons.
He's not saying that at all. He's just pointing out that they have that option. Those are choices, just not ones that you may like.
Progression in EVE can mean many things. Halting SP training doesn't mean progression stops. I'm a lazy man and absolutely refuse to wait 24hrs for jump clone timers. I realized this and have played the game sans implants as a personal choice. Many others that started the game at the same time as me now have 10-15m more SP than I have due to my own choosing. If at some point I decide the penalty of more SP outweighs the benefit I will slow down training, stop it, or lose SP in a high ranked lvl 5 skill to make room for training something else.
I'm happy with where I'm at in the game because I orchestrated where I am and how I got there. If I make or have made a choice that limits my ability in some respect to the game I'll do different later or try to fix it, not blame CCP. I understood the rules they set and acted accordingly, it's not their fault if others race to high SP just to rue their decision. The potential consequences were laid out for them not long after they started playing. These individuals have had years to intentionally screw themselves and now they have only themselves to blame. This of course means they'd have to take responsibility for their actions rather than ask for the game to change.
EVE is a game where you can't always have your cake and eat it too. This irritates some people, others appreciate it.
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.19 07:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Gorefacer it's not their fault if others race to high SP just to rue their decision. The potential consequences were laid out for them not long after they started playing. These individuals have had years to intentionally screw themselves and now they have only themselves to blame. This of course means they'd have to take responsibility for their actions rather than ask for the game to change.
EVE is a game where you can't always have your cake and eat it too. This irritates some people, others appreciate it.
you heard it here first.
keeping your account active and training skills is intentionally screwing yourself. and you should have ****ing seen it coming.
jesus henry christmas, take some responsibility ppl, really. ppl like the OP need to stop crying.
Its only screwing yourself if after training that far you decide you can't afford your pods anymore and because of this your gameplay suffers. I'd be willing to bet most high SP players are perfectly happy with their choice to continue training SP.
Sorry your mad about this mechanic but it seems perfectly reasonable to me. If they tweaked the prices a bit it wouldn't be the end of the world but then again neither is paying up 20m or whatever it is after playing the game so long and getting all the benefits that come with all those SP you've acquired.
It was others making it sound like their high SP characters were screwing them.
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.04.09 23:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Bloodwolf
Actually learn to play is not the problem. Because clone costs do not necessarily cramp our abilities to be successful.. they just rule out the use of frigs, cruisers and other cheap ships at some point. The problem lies before even buying the ship. You do realize that it is irrational to pvp in a frig or a cruiser with 150m SP dont you?
It doesnt even matter if you get killed at all. If you think before you use a ship you will come to the conclusion that cheaper ships are not feasible anymore thus reducing their usage without any reason for doing so. This was not a problem as long as the effect was weak. But it cant be called weak anymore if you reach a 150 million skillpoints.
Good for you that you are swimming in isk. Are you swimming in enough isk to throw it away on fun cruiser pvp if the clone costs increase in the future? Good for you... some people might be as well. But there are certainly a lot more that would not pvp if it means spending more than they have to. Therefore they will choose a more expensive ship which gives them added survivability. Sucks for those who actually like to fly frigs and are against irrational spending of money. Maybe it is really intended to use alts for that. I would be delighted if someone told me why this is a good thing. Usally restrictive rules are there for a reason... im still searching for this one.
Had CCP arbitrarily chosen a slightly less steep increase curve in pod prices as SP goes up I wouldn't be here arguing that they should be higher. It's not that CCP chose the exact right prices for clones and anything higher is too much and anything lower is too little. I just don't see a good reason to lower the prices for high SP characters to some other arbitrary lower figure per clone cost. You get benefits from the SP you train and you have to pay for them. This basic concept seems absolutely fair and the current clone costs don't seem high enough to me to be restrictive enough to invalidate the value of the SP you pay for so why should be people pay less for it?
Saying that high clone costs "rule out" the use of whatever ship is ridiculous. The benefit of being a high SP player and being the game long enough to accrue those SP is that you should have the ISK and skills to do and fly whatever you want. If you aren't willing to fly frigs or whatever that is a personal choice and not really anything to do with clone costs as plenty of people with the same clone costs are more than willing to do what you are not.
Not only are those SP worth every ISK you have to spend on clones, even for those mega penny pinchers there are avenues of choice in the game to slow or stop SP gain. Basically the SP is worth training to you or not and you are given a choice of one or the other. The vast majority will continue to train the SP as the benefits outweigh the costs. There are many activities in the game that cost more ISK than some people are willing to spend on it, this is normal and does not always call for game changing measures to be taken.
If CCP down the line at some point do decide to lower clone costs it won't ruin the game for me in any way. In this case it's not so much that I have a good reason why I think the proposed changes should NOT be made but more that I don't see any good reasons why it SHOULD be made. Your argument of relatively expensive t1 frigate losses don't move me.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
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