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Fozzy Dorsai
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Posted - 2011.01.22 15:16:00 -
[1]
I'm getting my first BS in a couple of weeks and was wondering: now that I have all of the skills that affect light and medium drones up to 4 or 5, will I need to carry both on missions, or can my mediums handle the frigates in a good enough fashion that I can carry them and some spares instead of a full set of both lights and mediums? |
AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.22 15:36:00 -
[2]
In both PvE and PvP, you will need a full set of lights. You will be thankful for having them at T2 at least at level 4 on the racial scout drone skill when you have a frigate tackling you in a mission while your tank melts and you can't do damage to it. Warrior IIs are the FOTM due to their excessive speed and decent tracking.
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Killer Claw
Astral Beings
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Posted - 2011.01.22 15:47:00 -
[3]
If your doing level 4, you don't really need the lights, I've found that mediums can keep up to any frigate well enough, and the extra damage can be integral on harder missions, especially when you get into warp scramming. ------
Level 4 Missions ~ 4mil SP |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.22 16:12:00 -
[4]
I find light drones far more useful than medium ones.
Anything you could need a medium drone for can be hit well enough with your main weapons, and as damage supplements, they are a bit too slow ù they'll spend more time just microwarping around the grid to get to the next target, and when they get there, they'll be effective for a very short while until you main guns pulverise the same target. All of this reduces the amount of damage they actually contribute with in the end.
Light drones, on the other hand, will hit targets that your main weaponry can't effectively touch, and if you come across something particularly nasty and frig-sized (or worse: drone-sized), you want to hit that with full damage.
Don't stare yourself blind on the EFT DPS ù the damage application is what matters, and if you go for slow and poor-hitting (relatively speaking) drones as your main weapon against fast and small target, and (still) slow and ok-hitting ones against medium targets, that damage application takes a sizeable hit. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Daveion Steel
Gallente 6thsense Corp Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.22 16:56:00 -
[5]
I always take a flight of light drones with me on a mission, and I swap them around, Warriors where Explosive damage is needed, this goes with all my drones except Sentries.
With 7.5m sp's in Drones I also sometimes think that Medium ones are as good as light, but I will normally swap from meds to lights if those pesky rat frigs get in too close, depends if I can be bothered I guess.
Fly safe... take lights Sig.
What's your honest opinion? The one thing I can never be wrong about. most everything actually :P |
Malema
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Posted - 2011.01.22 17:32:00 -
[6]
They are absolutely vital in Level 4 missions to kill warp scramblers and those damn annoying spiders (thus giving you the option to GTFO if something goes wrong) ------------------------------------------------ Miners/Industrialists : Get back ! |
Simeon Tor
Picon Fleet New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.01.22 18:32:00 -
[7]
Just take mediums all the time, lights are a waste of time. Specifically take only Hammerheads as they can handle everything well enough.
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Tiffis
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Posted - 2011.01.22 18:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Simeon Tor Just take mediums all the time, lights are a waste of time. Specifically take only Hammerheads as they can handle everything well enough.
You are wrong.
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Mastin Dragonfly
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2011.01.22 18:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia I find light drones far more useful than medium ones.
Anything you could need a medium drone for can be hit well enough with your main weapons, and as damage supplements, they are a bit too slow ù they'll spend more time just microwarping around the grid to get to the next target, and when they get there, they'll be effective for a very short while until you main guns pulverise the same target. All of this reduces the amount of damage they actually contribute with in the end.
Light drones, on the other hand, will hit targets that your main weaponry can't effectively touch, and if you come across something particularly nasty and frig-sized (or worse: drone-sized), you want to hit that with full damage.
Don't stare yourself blind on the EFT DPS ù the damage application is what matters, and if you go for slow and poor-hitting (relatively speaking) drones as your main weapon against fast and small target, and (still) slow and ok-hitting ones against medium targets, that damage application takes a sizeable hit.
/agreed
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Shereza
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Posted - 2011.01.22 20:20:00 -
[10]
Honestly, they aren't. They are, however, much more useful than medium drones. After the nerf to medium drones some time back it seems like they're even worse to use against small NPC ships than heavy drones are.
To be completely honest, however, these days I'm leaning to believe that, with high skills (read that as max or nearly so) T2 heavy drones are as or almost as effective against NPC frigates as light drones are. NPC frigates orbit in close enough that the speed difference doesn't matter much while the orbit-with-MWD issue many light drones are prone to would be. Likewise the raw damage output of heavy drones would tend to offset the superior tracking from light drones.
Still, if you're absolutely paranoid about high-speed web/scramble frigates light drones can be out there and chewing them up almost as soon as you aggro them while heavy drones would be best used when said ships are already webbing/scrambling you, a somewhat less than ideal situation for many players I'm sure.
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Babel
Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2011.01.22 20:37:00 -
[11]
When meds/lights were first adjusted to their current stats, lots of people with just mediums in bay doing missions (with annoying lil NPCs) lost ships .... Make of that what you will ... . All generalisations are false - Discuss.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2011.01.22 20:55:00 -
[12]
For pvp, light scouts are very useful, but I always take t2 med scouts with me on pve fights.
The sole exception is the new sansha incursions which I tested in Sisi. I dumped a flight of t2 mediums on a sansha scout encounter (easiest category of fight there is in an incursion) and the frig rats ate them up like candy. The drones also had trouble keeping up with the rats. I think the light scouts would have worked better (and be easier on the wallet).
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Jacqueline Coeur
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.22 21:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jacqueline Coeur on 22/01/2011 21:40:37
Originally by: Tippia Anything you could need a medium drone for can be hit well enough with your main weapons
Drones are my main weapons, you insensitive clod!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.22 21:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jacqueline Coeur
Originally by: Tippia Anything you could need a medium drone for can be hit well enough with your main weapons
Drones are my main weapons, you insensitive clod!
àthen use Sentries. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Retard Guy
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Posted - 2011.01.22 23:24:00 -
[15]
Edited by: ****** Guy on 22/01/2011 23:25:42 Lights are great for killing frigs where your BS can't hit them.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.01.23 04:54:00 -
[16]
considering eve crashes all the time I just carry 3x flights of scout drones. 5x warrior 5x hobgoblin 5x hornet. |
Moriel Damodred
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.01.23 05:07:00 -
[17]
I roll hammerheads all the time. Only use them on things at 15k range as sentries kill everything else trivially, and mediums kill things close in trivially. Honestly, if you need that scrammer dead to finish the mission, you're doing it wrong, and if the DPS being put out by the frigate is killing you, you're also doing it wrong. Hammers kill cruisers and frigates with ease. |
Weekas Slave
GET A JOB
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Posted - 2011.01.23 08:58:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Weekas Slave on 23/01/2011 08:58:51 At the beginning of tackling lvl 4 missions lights are a really good idea. Later on you can use just mediums, at the end of your lvl 4 experience carrying light drones will be a good idea again.
When you start with serious lvl 4 missions your ship and your efficency will be rather low end, so there will come situations where you mismanage agro, shoot the wrong ship, fitted the wrong hardeners and risk getting overwhelmed. and you really, really want light drones to get rid of the two orbiting, scrambling elite frigs ASAP.
When you learn the missions inside and out you will learn better what to do, your ship will probably get equipped better, and its just so much less hassle to agro all at once, let the drones out, and kill everything in your own time.
In the end, if you stick to it, you will downsize your defenses at will, to get even more firepower and finish missions that much faster, and once again you will want to have a flight of light drones just in case you press one button too fast or on the wrong target, knowing that you are maximizing your profit on the idea that you do know what you are doing 100% of the time.
Apart from that, train drones to t2, I guarantee you won't ever regret it.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.01.23 11:43:00 -
[19]
Did I miss a stealth update or something? When did med drones suddenly become better at killing frigates (without painter assist)?
If not, then the question is moot. The question of choice for ships with < 75m3 or > 125m3 drone bay ... is also moot.
Those Minnie ships with funny 100m drone bays, WHY 10x mediums? Ask yourself is sacrificing frigate defense is worth it. If not, either stick to Hammers/Valks, but not both.
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Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar 4 Inches Of PAIN
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Posted - 2011.01.23 13:10:00 -
[20]
From my experience mediums kill frigates as fast as lights while being more resilient and giving more DPS on bigger targets. |
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2011.01.23 15:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Moriel Damodred I roll hammerheads all the time. Only use them on things at 15k range as sentries kill everything else trivially, and mediums kill things close in trivially. Honestly, if you need that scrammer dead to finish the mission, you're doing it wrong, and if the DPS being put out by the frigate is killing you, you're also doing it wrong. Hammers kill cruisers and frigates with ease.
That's quite a bold statement you've made there.
I have always speed tanked missions. I fit full gank and I kill scramblers and webbers 1st no matter what. If they don't even get in range, all the better... and light drones get the job done better than anything else.
Maybe you're "doing it wrong". |
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2011.01.23 15:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Blaad Booyashaka From my experience mediums kill frigates as fast as lights while being more resilient and giving more DPS on bigger targets.
Same here. Medium scouts kill frigs as fast as light drones (even without any tracking or target painting boost) and they kill cruisers twice as fast. I'd shoot/sentry anything that these drones would be required to travel to (and lights can't apply enough dps to matter before I kill the target). That's why I don't bother with light scouts any more in missions.
Originally by: Wet Ferret
I have always speed tanked missions. I fit full gank and I kill scramblers and webbers 1st no matter what. If they don't even get in range, all the better... and light drones get the job done better than anything else.
That's a valid concern, but I'd do it only if you have space in the drone bay for them. If you're flying around with a 50 m3 drone bay, that's going to be a waste of dps to pack two flights of lights over one flight of mediums.
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Rolf Lassgaard
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Posted - 2011.01.23 17:22:00 -
[23]
I only use mediums. Hammerhead II mostly, sometimes Valkyrie II. When I have the possibility I throw in some lights just to fill out the bay (say flying a Dominix or something with a good bay).
The reason? I find mediums as good as lights and it's easier to just keep the drones out instead of having to change when you are about to send them to a bigger target.
I guess it's a personal preference what you want to do and what feels best. |
stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.23 17:49:00 -
[24]
It depends on your DPS/gank ability. If you're at the top end and flying a Marauder, you probably only need lights, since anything cruiser sized or bigger will be squashed with your primary weapons.
If you have low skills (aka low DPS,) you might need the medium's firepower to deal with cruisers (if your bigs guns have trouble hitting cruisers) or to help break the tank on an especially tough NPC. If you're slow to kill the cruisers and larger, then you'll want to use mediums to help speed things up.
Minor points: Lights are cheaper than mediums, and you can carry more spare lights. Lights travel faster, so can get to their target faster so they apply their DPS faster, or they can be recalled more quickly if they start taking fire.
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De BuG2
Gallente Rise on Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.23 21:31:00 -
[25]
well, i just carry round 25 warrior 2's on my mach, i dont need anything else. ALL ships die on approach anyway, i only use them for those fairly annoying spider drones that go 5000m/s --------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.01.23 22:37:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Sturmwolke on 23/01/2011 22:44:41 Right, let's nip this at the bud before someone gets carried away. Please remember, there are newbies out there. When you imply/advise/say that medium drones work fine, this tends to propagate the wrong idea about anti-frigate drone defense as these newbies will in turn parrot the same idea (without care).
Let's get one thing straight, (unassisted)* medium drones are adequate to the task, but they are not better than light drones in the terms of the time it takes to kill a frigate.
* without any assists in the form of a) target painters b) omnidirectional tracking links
Now the next bit explains why you're seeing a close gap in performance between unassisted medium drones vs light drones. To put it simply, the target's speed/orbit speed matters - by quite a bit. This affects the medium drones more than it affects the light drones, and therefore you will see some perfomance swings in medium drone vs a particular target. Overall, light drones are still the better choice for anti-frigate purposes as it covers for all situations.
e.g.
Centii Loyal Butcher (180m/s orbit / 35m sig) Light : -0.96% dps (98dps effective) Medium : -70.40% dps (47dps effective)
Centii Loyal Minion (360m/s orbit / 25m sig) Light : -0.05% dps (99dps effective) Medium : -32.79% dps (106dps effective)
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Domyn
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Posted - 2011.01.23 23:55:00 -
[27]
As all of the above posts show, this is pretty much a matter of personal preference, and skillpoints invested.
If you have relatively little in the way of drone skills, carrying a flight of lights to deal with frigs, and the ever annoying spider drones is pretty important, if you dont wanna get scrambled at the wrong moments.
If you have good drone skills though, mediums work just as well for killing frigs, and are more useful in adding some extra dps on other targets if needed, for example those nasty elite cruisers.
Still, it boils down to preference, and most importantly the dronebay and bandwidth of your battleship.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.01.24 01:28:00 -
[28]
I used to preach 5xT2 drones as religion, but now I fly T2/T3 missile based cruisers, with several million SP in missiles, I have very little need for drones.
In terms of mission completion times, killing frigates with drones means they are dead by the time you have finished off the big stuff with your main weapons. If not, you need better drone skills, or a webifier.
Medium drones will dispatch most frigates eventually. I would recommend using both light and medium drones until you are confident that your medium drones will do the job. For minmaxers, make sure you keep record of how quickly various drones dispatch certain targets. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Concero
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Posted - 2011.01.24 13:22:00 -
[29]
For what it's worth, I just carry T1 lights if not in a drone boat for PvE. I can carry more and I don't care if they get popped as I just look at them as ammunition. T2 just does too easy without micromanagement and die even then. I just hate loosing T2 drones.
Cruise missiles kill the bigger ships. I just let the drones get on with it. They will have finished off the frigs and have started on the cruisers while I run down from the other end of the ship size scale.
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Salliene
Gallente Cowboys and Beach Bums
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Posted - 2011.01.24 14:44:00 -
[30]
I use lights for anti frigates and cruisers because they are fast and can move from target to target quickly. Sure, they might take 7 seconds to kill a frigate instead of 6, but I got the time.
I use mediums BC's and the easier BS'es. I whip out the heavies for big BS'es, etc.
The best thing about the lights is the speed. Sometimes when I can't get everything to aggro me, I have to send my drones out to kill a few frigs then call them back in to get the rats off of them. Being able to whip them out and put them back in quickly helps keep them alive. Sometimes when I am using my mediums it's a nail biter as they rush back to the ship with enemy ships pounding on them.
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