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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:25:00 -
[31]
Akita bro, don't touch that bottle of jaeger no more
This signature is brought to you by Nvidia(tm) |
Saska Samar
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu As long as the AURUM items don't have stats that are unobtainable by players without AURUM, the only issue is the mineral market/economy.
CCP posts have stated that this will be done through BPOs/BPCs for AURUM, or as a trade in. (Scorpion + 1k AUR = Painted Scorpion).
Although they were considering doing a test by directly offering the Ship for AUR, this has been put on hold.
And why was it put on hold?
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Jean Misto
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu As long as the AURUM items don't have stats that are unobtainable by players without AURUM, the only issue is the mineral market/economy.
CCP posts have stated that this will be done through BPOs/BPCs for AURUM, or as a trade in. (Scorpion + 1k AUR = Painted Scorpion).
Although they were considering doing a test by directly offering the Ship for AUR, this has been put on hold.
And what if they start releasing 'trade in tech 1 fitting and AUR, and get a golden fitting with the same stats as the best officer gear', it would ruin that market of getting rare items. Estamel's invuln field would be less valuable than the golden AUR invuln field.
And they haven't even said it's vanity only, even though the question's been asked many times over. |
Mitsuko Souma
The United Federation of Spice
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:27:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Entity
Originally by: Kurj Valdoria You call him Entity.
Quoted for truth
Toasting in a Ranger Entity bread.
Also whatever Akita said is probably correct, as he isnt dumb.
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Transporter Slave
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:28:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Transporter Slave on 25/06/2011 21:28:38
Originally by: Saska Samar
And why was it put on hold?
Because the function was not ready yet and CCP did not want to launch this.
Mind you, it was the mittani who said on Failheap-challenge he did not see a problem in this for the eve market.
I believe his words were: "Players won't care about the market that is owned by bots anyway" so they gave to go ahead to CCP. We then told CCP not to.
Srsly, they should hire a decent economist on CSM.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot You of all people should know the importance of AUR sold items (ships, ammo, etc.) not being involved with the player economy.
ONLY if the equivalent AUR price of a new item in the NEX ends up similar to (or god forbid lower than) the equivalent pre-existing item. As long as NEX pricing comes up at radically higher prices compared to similar pre-existing items, the "bypass player economy" argument is completely moot. And even if pricing would be similar, you're still forgetting that YOU CAN BUY THEM WITH ISK TOO, INDIRECTLY. Sure, it might raise the price of PLEX in ISK, but then you're not really complaining about the economy, you're complaining of PLEX prices. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Sakura Ren Fenikkusu
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:31:00 -
[37]
Quote: And why was it put on hold?
It was put on hold after CSM comments suggested it wasn't the best thing to do. IMO, even a short-span on the NeXus could inject market breaking amount of minerals.
Honestly, it's CCP's game. There is nothing stopping them from putting an item on the AURUM store with Officer like stats; however, this requires a bit of faith on our part that they will not do something like that, and trust them to keep the balance. No reason to believe they wouldn't keep in balanced, and least not intentionally.
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Lu'Marat
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:35:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Lu''Marat on 25/06/2011 21:36:36 Edited by: Lu''Marat on 25/06/2011 21:36:19 Fact is, people are tearing their hair out over a lot of ifs and when and maybes. So CCP haven't said they will stick to vanity only, alright, that tells you they won't. Point made. Will the eve-market implode because everybody and their dog will from now on buy uber auto-fitted ships to fly in bought sov-systems? I highly doubt it.
By the way...
Quote: what do you call a golden sov change with no shooting or time paid for with aurum?
I call that "missed out on a lot of good gameplay".
As long as the shops provide nothing that will turn a crappy player into somebody you can't beat, I doubt there's anything ahead we can't deal with. Of course, if enough of you tear your hair out and scream till your lungs collapse, eventually the game may die due to lack of active players. But that's your doing then, not CCPs.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:35:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Akita will you PLEASE stop trying to talk sense into people? The forums have never been this amusing!
Were amusing, for like, a day or so. Now they're merely annoying. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Saska Samar
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:36:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu
Quote: And why was it put on hold?
It was put on hold after CSM comments suggested it wasn't the best thing to do. IMO, even a short-span on the NeXus could inject market breaking amount of minerals.
Honestly, it's CCP's game. There is nothing stopping them from putting an item on the AURUM store with Officer like stats; however, this requires a bit of faith on our part that they will not do something like that, and trust them to keep the balance. No reason to believe they wouldn't keep in balanced, and least not intentionally.
So CCP thought it would be a good idea to magic a ship for cash and only back tracked after the community told them that it was a bad idea.
The issues here is that CCP don't seem to have the ability to learn.
Yes it's their game but why will people want to invest their time and effort into something that means so little. And yes I know it's just a game but no-one likes fixed games.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:38:00 -
[41]
The problem I see isn't that people will buy victory. The problem I see is that eventually MT will undermine every non-combat aspect of the game. What happens when CCP does MT right and releases better ammo for Aur? Said ammo to be attractive to MT users needs to be better than player made ammo it also needs to be economical enough for people to be willing to buy it. Once that happens say goodbye to the whole production chain plus LP conversion income stream because there will be no market for that product anymore.
The same applies to any other item released through the NEX so you can pretty much kiss industry as a play style goodbye, Oh and logistics? Ha won't matter that jump bridges got nerfed since all one has to do is whip out the credit card and buy everything you need in your 0.0 station.
Plex for isk doesn't bypass existing game mechanics it does not result in anything poofing instantly into existence.
Also one guy in an full officer fit BS isn't a problem but a 100 man fleet? well that's a completely different matter.
Oh yeah and if you think it's supercaps online now? wait until all it takes to create a Super cap pilot is a CC, as it is now when someone buys one from the Bazaar they aren't making one out of nothing someone had to spend the time and level that character up. Make SP purchasable and you've got instant perfectly skilled pilots. I'm training a cap pilot right now this character is already 2 years old and is still looking at 6 months to be able to fly a cap and another year to be near perfectly skilled. So you'd be bypassing 3 years worth of effort.
Really, I thought you of all people would be smart enough to see the difference.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:40:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/06/2011 21:40:21
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Jennifer Starling Akita will you PLEASE stop trying to talk sense into people? The forums have never been this amusing!
Were amusing, for like, a day or so. Now they're merely annoying.
Ok then .. *sighs*
* A non-vanity item may enable "pay2win" by buying from CCP instead of buying from other players and bypassing the economy. But the only way I can see that becoming a threat for the economy is when: 1) MT stuff becomes so cheap that a lot of people can afford it and so create volumes that interfere with the current market volumes; 2) MT stuff becomes cheaper than their in-game equivalents so people have no reason to buy from other players; 3) MT suff is better than current in-game stuff. Think meta 20 modules, T2 titans or +7 implants.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Fleet of Doom RaVeN Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:41:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 25/06/2011 21:45:01
Originally by: Akita T
The guys screaming "waaargh, no pay-to-win, mad as hell, burn CCP" would like you to believe that would be "a win".
But you know what you would have called it just a month ago ?
LOOT PI-ATA !
So, what exactly changed from last month other than a lot of extra rage ?
Sure, CCP has screwed the pooch with a lot of things, and it's obvious a lot of people are mad. Hell, *I* don't like quite a few things CCP did either, and I don't have any hopes it will get any better any time soon.
But still, since when are high SP counts and expensive gear no longer "LOL, EBAY" and "YAY, LOOT PI-ATA!" but instead "GAH, HE WON" ?
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot You of all people should know the importance of AUR sold items (ships, ammo, etc.) not being involved with the player economy.
ONLY if the equivalent AUR price of a new item in the NEX ends up similar to (or god forbid lower than) the equivalent pre-existing item. As long as NEX pricing comes up at radically higher prices compared to similar pre-existing items, the "bypass player economy" argument is completely moot. And even if pricing would be similar, you're still forgetting that YOU CAN BUY THEM WITH ISK TOO, INDIRECTLY. Sure, it might raise the price of PLEX in ISK, but then you're not really complaining about the economy, you're complaining of PLEX prices.
Sure, you're "bypassing the economy" or whatever, but just how many Estamel-equivalent items do you think would be purchased from the NEX shop if they'd ever make an appearance in there ? And how exactly does that make any bloody difference to 99.999% of the population which never ever in their entire EVE life have seen Estamel in space ? Boo-hoo, so you buy it from a shop instead of another player. Big deal. Unless you're an officer farmer and the prices are too low, you shouldn't even begin to care. Afterall, CCP already controls the number of those items in existence already by tweaking the spawn rates and loot table drop chances - if anything, this gives players control over volume and CCP control over TOP price in relation to PLEX price, but PLAYERS also drive PLEX price so, basically, this gives players control. It still doesn't really matter all that much.
What matters is... since when are high SP counts and expensive gear no longer met with "LOL, EBAY" and "YAY, LOOT PI-ATA!" but instead considered a sign of "winning" ?!?
Akita, I do love your posts by the way :)
I more mad about the 18 months with a huge focus on non-ship non-pvp additions to the game. I wish there was a more 50/50 split on game development.
I am also not pleased with forced barbie dolls and removed ship-spinning... not so much because I hate them, but because I know we got them instead of some other content that I might've actually used...
Mostly, though, I'm completely appalled ( though not surprised I suppose ) with the disdain with which CCP leadership views us, their customers.
Finally, with the dumbing down of several features, and the NEX easy button that is forthcoming, it's going to draw a different type of crowd. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. The problem is that this new crowd is not going to like the " you can die anywhere " aspect of eve, and the changes we're seeing now will inevitable end the sandbox completely.
This makes me sad. But it is CCPs game, and they're going to do what they want. Honestly the changes they're making will, I think, undoubtedly make them more money. I can't blame them. I just figured if they wanted to go mass-market, they would've done it long before 8 years passed by.
So yea, you can say LOL, EBAY, YAY, LOOT PI-ATA!, and GAH, HE WON... until of course the new folks that spend all the AUR on NEX get tired of spending 100 bucks and losing it the same day. Then the rules will change.
I don't want an easy-eve nor do I relish mingling amonst people who do.
And that disdain thing, that's hard to ignore too.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Fleet of Doom RaVeN Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:44:00 -
[44]
and also, it burns me ( and many others ) that while we waited months or years to be able to use certain toys, newer players could potential buy skillpoints and fly dreadnaughts on day 2 with max skills. Just feels like being pooped on.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:46:00 -
[45]
This thread needs more flames. It's awfully quiet on the "STFU, Akita, you n00b" front. I might even begin to think you're starting to agree !
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:46:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Akita T
The guys screaming "waaargh, no pay-to-win, mad as hell, burn CCP" would like you to believe that would be "a win".
But you know what you would have called it just a month ago ?
LOOT PI-ATA !
So, what exactly changed from last month other than a lot of extra rage ?
State Raven: Did he do something like working for months with a team and become the top PvPer of all?
No, he purchased the ship in 5 minutes. He and other 51 monocled guys. In one day.
Estamel: did he learn how to go to 0.0, how to grind officer gear, possibly had to find a team to kill the NPC?
Or
Did he grind his butt for 1+ years in order to buy the tens of billions worth of modules?
No, his Visa spoketh and he got it in 5 minutes. He and other 51 monocled guys. In one day.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:47:00 -
[47]
ok why am I personaly upset about all of this?
well it may be that they, by there own admition, blew half there Dev manhours to give us 1 room and a handfull of not realy that exciting Items.
It may be that now we know that they have people who are hellbent on making this a Subs + game with the intention of defacto jetisoning the current play to win mechanics with a Pay to win or at least not get crushed out of existance by people who will cheefully pay more than you to win.(after all if some idiot is willing to pay hundreds for clothing, how mutch do you think that same idiot will pay for the I-win button?
I know they already have a pay to win mechanic iddling away with the Plex system.
its just disgusting how craven they seem to be about the whole thing. .End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Roh Voleto
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:48:00 -
[48]
Why waste your time hunting officer spawns, when you can just buy their modules from the Aurum market? And when less people are doing it, CCP has another "reason"/justification to ignore nullsec PvE even more.
In my eyes that's the best case scenario, btw. Something like "People are not buying enough NeX modules. - Let's reduce the drop rate of officer modules." is even more likely to happen.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:49:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor and also, it burns me ( and many others ) that while we waited months or years to be able to use certain toys, newer players could potential buy skillpoints and fly dreadnaughts on day 2 with max skills. Just feels like being pooped on.
Yes that must hurt .. for years now!
You do mean plex for isk and buy a 93 mil SP character from the bazaar?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:50:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha State Raven: Did he do something like working for months with a team and become the top PvPer of all? Estamel: did he learn how to go to 0.0, how to grind officer gear, possibly had to find a team to kill the NPC? Or Did he grind his butt for 1+ years in order to buy the tens of billions worth of modules? No, he purchased the ship in 5 minutes. his Visa spoketh and he got it in 5 minutes. He and other 51 monocled guys. In one day.
And I can get a State Raven with full Estamel gear RIGHT NOW. I wasn't a top tier PvPer either. I seldom go to 0.0. I don't hunt officers. And I won't be using my credit card to buy it. But I can still get it right now.
YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT !
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:51:00 -
[51]
I already imagine alliance meetings like this one:
Alliance Leader> Guys, we have lost our capital fleet. Our POS's are in reinforced and we can't produce any more capitals. I suggest we start relocating to NPC space.
Corp CEO Wait a minute. Have you read the latest ************* Dev Blog. Noble shop will have new items by weekend and there will be premium capitals.
Alliance Leader Really? I haven't read it yet.
Corp CEO I've already made some calculations. All it takes - each alliance member donates $20 to this PayPal account and we'll buy ourselves a new "premium" cap fleet, delivered exactly where we want it to be.
Alliance Leader Great. Turns out MT was a good idea...
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Jean Misto
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:52:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Jean Misto on 25/06/2011 21:53:06
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha State Raven: Did he do something like working for months with a team and become the top PvPer of all? Estamel: did he learn how to go to 0.0, how to grind officer gear, possibly had to find a team to kill the NPC? Or Did he grind his butt for 1+ years in order to buy the tens of billions worth of modules? No, he purchased the ship in 5 minutes. his Visa spoketh and he got it in 5 minutes. He and other 51 monocled guys. In one day.
And I can get a State Raven with full Estamel gear RIGHT NOW. I wasn't a top tier PvPer either. I seldom go to 0.0. I don't hunt officers. And I won't be using my credit card to buy it. But I can still get it right now.
YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT !
But a whole alliance couldn't do that, much less replace the officer gear if they lose it, there just isn't that much in the game.
If they can just pop it into existance by training credit card swiping level 5, then everyone can get it. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:54:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jean Misto But a whole alliance couldn't do that, much less replace the officer gear, there just isn't that much in the game. If they can just pop it into existance by training credit card swiping level 5, then everyone can get it.
So what if ? Kill them all, laugh all the way at their subsequent rage. Like you used to do before at people who spent RL cash galore. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Neoexecutor
Minmatar Skynet Technologies
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:54:00 -
[54]
If i had as much invested in this game as you, i too would try to help damage control the situation to save my assets that are on the brink of becoming worthless.
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Jean Misto
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:55:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Jean Misto But a whole alliance couldn't do that, much less replace the officer gear, there just isn't that much in the game. If they can just pop it into existance by training credit card swiping level 5, then everyone can get it.
So what if ? Kill them all, laugh all the way at their subsequent rage. Like you used to do before at people who spent RL cash galore.
Whatever, there will still be some people playing the game with pay-to-win, but I won't be one of them. |
Kirtur Muhaha
Gallente World-Slayer
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:56:00 -
[56]
Eve players have just become soft in their old age... "Wah, they can get cool ships on day 2"... I remember a player buying a rorqual account, on his first day he cyno's into my lowsec system and warps to a gate and sits on it... After we kill him he explains in local "It wouldn't let me use the gate to get away"... THATS the kind of thing MT would introduce to EVE more, and Im all for that lol _________________________________________________ |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:56:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Bloodpetal on 25/06/2011 21:56:03
I'm not getting charged for more saved FITTINGS.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:57:00 -
[58]
What has changed is that Game Content and Balance will be designed with maximizing MT sales in mind.
the plex thing was generic... and they seemed to want to fight or limit rises in the average player isk spending (inflation plus rate of real eanrings increase)....
... it didn't look like they were pushing people into tengus so they could sell more plex to their private RMT
but suddenly, thats all in question..
... the "favor" of moving ship fittings server side and the lower limit wasn't accidental... the limit at least looks like a method to get paying customers to pay yet more...
they revealed their dirty laundry and have called to question whether they are putting smooth quality play of monthly paying customers first or their desire to get more per player first.
As far as profit , either road can make more money...determining on what's calculated to bring and retain more players etc.
But they have revealed the results of their internal research and have opted to risk some compromise for the hope of getting still more $ per player.
That came as a surprise to me , and I'd call it a true change. Whether its game breaking for me is something I havn't decided but it has certainly made me commmit to myself to try some other things for a few months.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:58:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kirtur Muhaha Eve players have just become soft in their old age... "Wah, they can get cool ships on day 2"... I remember a player buying a rorqual account, on his first day he cyno's into my lowsec system and warps to a gate and sits on it... After we kill him he explains in local "It wouldn't let me use the gate to get away"... THATS the kind of thing MT would introduce to EVE more, and Im all for that lol
Excellent reason to give us SP for AUR!! |
Lynx Amurie
Caldari Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2011.06.25 21:58:00 -
[60]
After going through all my rage, and being mad, and raging more, and being upset and all that ****, and after I logged off of Perpetuum Online (pretty win game tbh), i just kinda thought; 'Well, if a monocle costs 80$', an item with no game-changing value AT ALL, what the hell would a golden rifter with an extra mid slot cost?! Probably 200$ JESUS'
So, yeah. When you stop screaming for a while, and step back for a day, you kind of put things into place. On top of the fact that they are 'planning' on putting in more stuff, and CCP + planning = wildcard. Anything could happen. We could get '**** the MT, there was too much drama. engine trails and new cyno effects for everyone!'
Just stop, take a break from the forums for a day, and think. Think of how a monocle is 80$, and how little it changes anything in game.
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