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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3058
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Posted - 2012.12.28 21:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
This is not a discussion. It's a pile-on. -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:If the timer is ticking, you've already jumped. So why are you jumping about SO much?
Or is 24 hours in a lower grade of implant clone REALLY such a big deal?
You have to see the problem from another perspective. Your mates are going out for roaming, maybe at war and need you so what are you going to do?
Avoid stupid conflicts because of stupid people and you don't log in, or will you simply not be there to help your friends and stay dock? Because it's pretty obvious it's so much fun mission and ratting for hours just to pay the pod+ship without fit, let's forget the implants price. Unless you're a Nexon fan and actually play the game with plex on top of your sub price and don't bother for another plex or two, after all it's your choice but you should also be aware there are other people playing this game and might think differently. The sun will not stop shining if you stop breathing, even if you think or someone told you it will |
Dheeradj Nurgle
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
121
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Posted - 2012.12.28 21:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Good god OP, you act like you have a head full of +5's. (I seriously hope I don't have to say how stupid that is...)
Where do you live? Null? Low? Judging by the amount of members your corp has, I'll guess Low. It's pretty much impossible to lose your Pod in Low, except in high lag situations. You can enter warp BEFORE you appear on their overview. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
360
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Posted - 2012.12.28 21:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Simetraz wrote:By shortening the jump timer you are then getting very close to implants that can't be destroyed. Players not login because clone timers not only makes those implants indestructible (at some point) but also less players or characters fleeting up/roaming whatever pvp. So, the questions should be: do you prefer more dudes doing pvp or not? Does this timer prevents pvp, yes or not? Once you seriously answered those questions taking in account there's not only a single way of thinking or playing this game, then I think we can move on and actually pvp a little more, I mean, play the game a little more. It's not the single negative point, you have to add all the natural problems random whatever player will encounter trying to log in and play Eve like usual bugs, new bugs, bad patches, and also figure out many players using other thing than Windows XP B.C. versions like Mac, Linux or even win8 have huge issues just to be able to undock and actually click and move to something. Then yes, this is not only a problem for gaming experience but also an unnecessary and stupid problem that should never ever been one in the first place. But it's only my $15 humble opinion, I know doesn't count that much. Plenty of people fight PVP without relying on JCs, so no, the 24 hour cooldown does not prevent PVP combat.
Plenty means nothing, I can use the same argument to say plenty don't because of jump clones and in the end who's right or wrong? -did it answered to whatever problem? -it didn't.
The core of the problem is how interesting for gaming experience this jump clone timer is, how would this be more abusive or dumbing down if the timer would be lowered to 12h than jump bridges or titan bridges facilities for traveling?
How is this much of a problem for you if the timer is lowered to 12h? -please explain me how abusive, dumbing down or whatever bad thing this would be for the game, be my guest, I would really like to read your constructive arguments around this.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2608
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Posted - 2012.12.28 21:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:By shortening the jump timer you are then getting very close to implants that can't be destroyed. Wrong. Very, very wrong.
By enabling players to jump into the clone with the implants they want to use in fact means those implants are put at risk far more than what we currently have. Which is players who simply don't bother to undock at all because they are not in the right clone.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
68
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Posted - 2012.12.28 21:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Join rvb, they don't pod |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
360
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Posted - 2012.12.28 21:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Join rvb, they don't pod
The right answer is just don't log in or stay dock. That's what happens and this is what so many brainless people think is awesome.
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
2902
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
Personal attacks removed. Please stay civil and constructive in your posting, thank you.
Moved from EVE General Discussion. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator - Volunteer Manager |
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
1038
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
As a lo sec PVPer who is always in a Low Grade Snake Set I don't share your pain. If you lose a pod in lo sec, you are doing it wrong.
That said, this is a bad idea because it increases power projection. You already have an astonishing amount of mobility in this game, adding this would mean you could hop across the map with no problems. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3058
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
I have a full 5 point Implant and hardwiring main with the 5% Mining Yield Implant. I also have an only 3 point Implant and hardwiring clone except for the 5% Yeti Ice Mining hardwire.
Once I've gone crazy after 2 hours of Ice Mining, I pretty much log off as it is then a 22 hour wait to get into my main head again.
....a head that is much more at risk obviously. And not at risk to you at all if I'm not logged in.
Although it really makes no difference to me, I'm not hearing any rational argument against a 12 hour reduction. Everyone brings up the travel exploit issue, but that is not the case for myself. Maybe 12 hour transfers can be done with an exception to restrict it to within 10 jumps or something ?? -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3058
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Posted - 2012.12.28 21:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Good god OP, you act like you have a head full of +5's. (I seriously hope I don't have to say how stupid that is...)
Then why are they even available do you think ???? -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
1038
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Good god OP, you act like you have a head full of +5's. (I seriously hope I don't have to say how stupid that is...)
Then why are they even available do you think ????
I can buy gold teeth, a diamond studded cane, a purple velvet suit, a golden crown, and diamond studded shoes but that doesn't mean I should go to the shady part of town with them. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Join rvb, they don't pod The right answer is just don't log in or stay dock. That's what happens and this is what so many brainless people think is awesome.
Why? U can apply to rvb, get accepted, pvp, and leave again all in the time it takes for your clone to cool down lol, unless he has roles The few thatget pod kills from purple wts, look at how expensive their mails are |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3058
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Posted - 2012.12.28 21:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Good god OP, you act like you have a head full of +5's. (I seriously hope I don't have to say how stupid that is...)
Then why are they even available do you think ???? I can buy gold teeth, a diamond studded cane, a purple velvet suit, a golden crown, and diamond studded shoes but that doesn't mean I should go to the shady part of town with them.
Well, what happened to the all important creedo of Risk vs Reward in this case ? -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
1038
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Good god OP, you act like you have a head full of +5's. (I seriously hope I don't have to say how stupid that is...)
Then why are they even available do you think ???? I can buy gold teeth, a diamond studded cane, a purple velvet suit, a golden crown, and diamond studded shoes but that doesn't mean I should go to the shady part of town with them. Well, what happened to the all important creedo of Risk vs Reward in this case ?
Your reward is badass bonuses (pirate and hardwiring implants) and improved training time (learning implants). Your risk is the financial hit of losing them. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:As a lo sec PVPer who is always in a Low Grade Snake Set I don't share your pain. If you lose a pod in lo sec, you are doing it wrong.
That said, this is a bad idea because it increases power projection. You already have an astonishing amount of mobility in this game, adding this would mean you could hop across the map with no problems.
Power projection is a false argument, you can talk about power projection when you can titan bridge thousands of players for over 180 jumps in just a couple minutes. You can talk about power projection when you can jump hundreds or thousands of players through jump bridges and be 50 or 70 jumps away in just a couple minutes. You can talk about power projection when you undock at jita and hit "jump" avoiding dozens of gates to empower your position at whatever station without much effort or risk other than undock and hit jump.
Why do you bring power projection to this discussion when all it is about is player experience. How much more would the normal player and not the abnormal personage behind his computer 12 or 20h/day, be or represent by whatever means "power projection" by changing the 24H timer to a 12H timer???
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
3058
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:Good god OP, you act like you have a head full of +5's. (I seriously hope I don't have to say how stupid that is...)
Then why are they even available do you think ???? I can buy gold teeth, a diamond studded cane, a purple velvet suit, a golden crown, and diamond studded shoes but that doesn't mean I should go to the shady part of town with them. Well, what happened to the all important creedo of Risk vs Reward in this case ? Your reward is badass bonuses (pirate and hardwiring implants) and improved training time (learning implants). Your risk is the financial hit of losing them.
Well then that's my prerogative. It does not make it 'stupid'. Certainly no stupider than anything else done in this game.
EDIT: oh, and a 2% gain over the lesser implant is hardly 'bada**'. Perhaps you have a language useage and vocabulary issue. -áGÇ£Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.GÇ¥ - Oscar Wilde |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
1038
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Well then that's my prerogative. It does not make it 'stupid'. Certainly no stupider than anything else done in this game.
EDIT: oh, and a 2% gain over the lesser implant is hardly 'bada**'. Perhaps you have a language useage and vocabulary issue.
Price is not a factor in balance. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
145
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 21:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:If the timer is ticking, you've already jumped. So why are you jumping about SO much?
Or is 24 hours in a lower grade of implant clone REALLY such a big deal? You have to see the problem from another perspective. Your mates are going out for roaming, maybe at war and need you so what are you going to do? Avoid stupid conflicts because of stupid people and you don't log in, or will you simply not be there to help your friends and stay dock? Because it's pretty obvious it's so much fun mission and ratting for hours just to pay the pod+ship without fit, let's forget the implants price. Unless you're a Nexon fan and actually play the game with plex on top of your sub price and don't bother for another plex or two, after all it's your choice but you should also be aware there are other people playing this game and might think differently. The sun will not stop shining if you stop breathing, even if you think or someone told you it will
You're putting isk before helping friends? Really?
You fly together, you die together.
/fin. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 22:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:If the timer is ticking, you've already jumped. So why are you jumping about SO much?
Or is 24 hours in a lower grade of implant clone REALLY such a big deal? You have to see the problem from another perspective. Your mates are going out for roaming, maybe at war and need you so what are you going to do? Avoid stupid conflicts because of stupid people and you don't log in, or will you simply not be there to help your friends and stay dock? Because it's pretty obvious it's so much fun mission and ratting for hours just to pay the pod+ship without fit, let's forget the implants price. Unless you're a Nexon fan and actually play the game with plex on top of your sub price and don't bother for another plex or two, after all it's your choice but you should also be aware there are other people playing this game and might think differently. The sun will not stop shining if you stop breathing, even if you think or someone told you it will You're putting isk before helping friends? Really? You fly together, you die together. /fin.
No, I'm putting my game experience and time I can afford to spend on it before the time required to cover eventual loss because of a stupid timer that has no sense. And if by friends you mean real friends, well actually my friends don't even understand why I spend time playing this game in the first place, nor do I actually when I read this kind of thread.
For me Eve is a game not a way of living or my reason of living, it's fun killing ships it's fun loosing ships it's not fun waiting a stupid timer. I can understand some people find it awesome and see no problem spending or wasting more time playing Eve than for everything else RL it's their choice but I don't share it at all, if someone doesn't have other interesting things to do in life than wait for a timer all I have to say is that sucks for them. For me gaming means fun, waiting 24h for a jump clone for me it's not fun and just prevents me from login and be able to go in fleet with my mates because I have the wrong clone. End of story.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2611
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Posted - 2012.12.28 22:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
The biggest issues facing lowering the timer is power projection and it raising the bar of being competitive with skill training speed. Power projection is already out of control and we really don't need another standard of everyone cloning to a full +5s every time they go to log off and cloning away to combat clones when they log in.
There is however another solution...
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 22:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:The biggest issues facing lowering the timer is power projection and raising the bar of being competitive with skill training speed. Power projection is already out of control and we really don't need another standard of everyone cloning to a full +5s every time they go to log off and cloning away to combat clones when they log in.
There is however another solution...
That's what we're already able to do, except instead of login and go to fleet with your friends and do "stuff" you have to wait the day after thus training even more time in the +5's clone and -time playing/presence.
Don't get me wrong, I'm used to it as I'm used to play with clones without implants for a couple days when I can afford to. It's just another "thing" accumulating with other "things" that make this game so terrible when it has a very strong potential but wasted with so many bad ideas. It's even more terrible when you have a job, a family, and actually pay for this game to have fun the little time you can afford to spend on it. The whatever reason why you might at some point get stuck with JC timer it's not important, what's important is if this prevents you from log in and play or not, in my case and many others I'm sure it does.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
11144
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 23:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Yes, it really should be reduced to 23h or 23h55m or so to make an actual once-a-day thing rather than the once-a-day-and-a-bit fencepost error it currently represents. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
145
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Posted - 2012.12.28 23:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
If you measure fun by isk/losses thereof, you're doing it wrong.
As I said,
Morrigan LeSante wrote: You fly together, you die together.
/fin.
For me, that is the end of the debate. Either your people are worth it, or they are not. Or you are not worthy of your people. Pick one.
No disrespect meant, but you sound like someone who never lost anything.
It. Is. Only. Isk. |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
361
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Posted - 2012.12.29 00:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:If you measure fun by isk/losses thereof, you're doing it wrong. As I said, Morrigan LeSante wrote: You fly together, you die together.
/fin.
For me, that is the end of the debate. Either your people are worth it, or they are not. Or you are not worthy of your people. Pick one. No disrespect meant, but you sound like someone who never lost anything. It. Is. Only. Isk.
Lost billions and killed many more billions, the problem is not there and neither in the fact if the people you're flying with are worthy or not, don't mix everything. The question is, does this timer prevents from pvp or doesn't?
Let's say you're on and you have nothing to do in your null station up to 21h but to kill rats in belts or move to your implanted clone to get those lp's you need for whatever reason, why not implants for instance? Day after you manage to log in again, this time and for whatever reason around 19h and then "bling" ping for fleet but you're in your slaved/crystal whatever set clone ! Don't tell me you think it's reasonable or bash me whatever unbrained patriotic/internet feeling, you are going to happily spend time travel 20 jumps in null through enemy or even your own space with roaming gangs, jump in to your dictor your drake or whatever ship like if you were proving or doing something honorable or whatever e-feeling you're trying to state? Of course the time you've done those 20 jumps your fleet is maybe already 50 other away...
It's a matter of good sense, not a matter of e-honour or whatever e-feeling, this timer prevents many people from login and pvp for sure and it's bad and needs to be fixed. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
187
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Posted - 2012.12.29 00:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
Supporting the 12 hour timer.
The problem with 24 is that it pays no heed to a pilots play session. Let's say halfway through your session (1 or 2 hours in, 1 or 2 hours left, etc) you get invited to some spectacular pvp stuff. You'd love to go, but it's on the other side of the universe/you have expensive implants/whatever. So you have to use a jump clone. Doing this, you know that when you log in tomorrow, you will be stuck on the other side of the universe/with the wrong implants/whatever for a couple hours. Most people have routines that are roughly similar each day, so it's fair to assume they will start playing before their clone timer is up.
A 12 hour timer limits you to one jump per session, but guaruntees you can jump back for your preferred activity whenever it is you log on the next day. Without this, people are more likely to turn down that pvp call, or more likely to not log in the next day. This is a pretty common sense change. 16 hours would also work. |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
665
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 01:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
I notice some of you are against this idea, but its ok, every of you got personal view and right to post personal opinion , meny of you dont care about this timer lenght, meny of you easy adapt to existed 24h timer, for some of you no big role of this, so what you say about 48h ? even better? would you finaly mention or care about this aspect if CCP boost jump clone sesion from 24 to 48h? how about one week long ? still no difirence ? Come on... EvE isn't game, its style of living. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
297
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 01:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
what if there was a 10 hour timer to change clones in the same station but the timer got increased to 36 hours if you want to move into a different station?
This would still give you decisions to make as generally in one play session you'll be choosing the clone you want for that session, but it will actually reduce the force projection issue currently caused by jump clones.
I guess im asking, do you really care about your implants? or are you just trying to just that as a veil to hide the fact that you want unlimited instant movement? |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
665
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Posted - 2012.12.29 01:59:00 -
[59] - Quote
Sigras wrote:what if there was a 10 hour timer to change clones in the same station but the timer got increased to 36 hours if you want to move into a different station?
This would still give you decisions to make as generally in one play session you'll be choosing the clone you want for that session, but it will actually reduce the force projection issue currently caused by jump clones.
I guess im asking, do you really care about your implants? or are you just trying to just that as a veil to hide the fact that you want unlimited instant movement?
Yes i care about my old full set of + 5 and rare cosmos implants instaled on this jump clone, to be honest this jc is very old, but still valuabe and somtime i got big benefit form it, also i want more freedom in game, and change them faster just because they useless while i want enjoy other game features. EvE isn't game, its style of living. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
363
|
Posted - 2012.12.29 02:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
A random thought What about being able to select what clone you start from after DT, then could still jump to a clone once per day. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
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