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BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 11:58:00 -
[1]
Hope everyone is able to connect to eve now.
Now that I am able to I have two questions.
Will CCP be making plans so when this happens again there is something that can be done within a few hours to remedy the problem?
Compenstaion for the game play and time lost, may have not been CCP's problem. But you deliver a product if you cannot deliver you owe me a refund just like RL I dont care if your supplier was asleep at the wheel all weekend not my issue :) make it right on the basis of good customer service.
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Hella May
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:01:00 -
[2]
In CCPS charges they discount for the one hour a day down time they provide. Since it isnt always 1 hour downtime but much less you actually owe them money....
Let's get this straight, if a girl has to be "rescued" 10 times a week from a brothel shes not a damsel but a prostitute.
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:04:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Hella May In CCPS charges they discount for the one hour a day down time they provide. Since it isnt always 1 hour downtime but much less you actually owe them money....
Erm.. I think hes talking about the people from Australia or the US and such that haven't been able to connect to Eve for 3 days now, or maybe even longer.
I actually kind of agree with him, but its going to be a bit hard to police really.
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BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:08:00 -
[4]
Yep I think the major drop was Saturday when a bunch of players were not able to connect. For some its been even longer. :(
Funny how it gets fixed on Monday
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DeODokktor
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Hella May In CCPS charges they discount for the one hour a day down time they provide. Since it isnt always 1 hour downtime but much less you actually owe them money....
Pass some of that **** over here.. Some GOOD SMOKIN..
Honestly tho.. it depends on where this fault was.. Even if it wasnt in their own internal network then they could still get compensation for a bad link. If they get compensation for it then yes they should probably pass compensation back to the customer. If the bad link was 4 hops out from their provider & Their network then they shouldnt entertain reinbursements.
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Julius Hawk
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:27:00 -
[6]
CCP has been more than happy to compensate in the past. Get me 2 new ships after the Exodus patch came out.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:34:00 -
[7]
I was connected most of the weekend without issue.
I think they are having local ISP or router problems which is hardly CCPs fault. Ask your ISP for compensation instead. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
CagedRage
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:41:00 -
[8]
No i live in Canada and had the same problem . I couldnt log into eve since around 7:00 gmt saturday until monday after down time.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:42:00 -
[9]
Weird. .. never had a problem. Mined jaspet all weekend. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Derisor I was connected most of the weekend without issue.
I think they are having local ISP or router problems which is hardly CCPs fault. Ask your ISP for compensation instead.
Dont think so mate was it was all over the world. If you see other threads here CCP asking for trace routes and the connection timed out in Iceland, from all of the traces I have seen posted from different players from every where.
Compenstaion would be nice if not oh well. But CCP needs to have a plan in place when their provider drops the ball players cannot play you have ****ed off customers, and new accounts cannot sign up lost revenue for CCP.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:48:00 -
[11]
Anyone who gets cheesed off so much over one weekend of downtime really needs to put things in perspective a bit better. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Angela Charlsworthy
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Angela Charlsworthy on 27/06/2005 12:50:14 At least it gave you a chance to see your family again, you remember them don't you
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:53:00 -
[13]
Correct me if i am wrong but the cause for the peeps being unable to connect was routing problems of some backbones or something. CCP has nothing to do with them. Can't blame them for any net routing problemthat occurs.
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BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Derisor Anyone who gets cheesed off so much over one weekend of downtime really needs to put things in perspective a bit better.
Well if you missed a weekend I think you would see things different light. Troll move along and go mine some jaspet
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BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 12:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: MOS DEF Correct me if i am wrong but the cause for the peeps being unable to connect was routing problems of some backbones or something. CCP has nothing to do with them. Can't blame them for any net routing problemthat occurs.
But I can blame them for.
One - Having a crap provider who cannot fix things on the weekend
Two - Not having a back up plan.
Its lost revenue for CCP also.
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: BARF
Originally by: MOS DEF Correct me if i am wrong but the cause for the peeps being unable to connect was routing problems of some backbones or something. CCP has nothing to do with them. Can't blame them for any net routing problemthat occurs.
But I can blame them for.
One - Having a crap provider who cannot fix things on the weekend
Two - Not having a back up plan.
Its lost revenue for CCP also.
How do you know it was their provider? The Internet is one giant game of pass the parcel. Think of a road network. If you can't get to my shop because of a blocked junction thirty miles away it's not my fault. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
BARF
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:12:00 -
[17]
I remember now why I never come to the forums
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Finix Jaeger
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BARF I remember now why I never come to the forums
And this whole thread is why I try not to read General... ------------------------- Grand Agitator Currently homeless, mail or convo if interested
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Death Merchant
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:18:00 -
[19]
To Whomever caused this weekends outage (for some of us):
Thanks to you I was able to,
1) Mow the lawn 2) Move the living room furniture around for my wife....twice 3) Open my new Dremel Power Tool setup that I got for christmas 4) Take the dog to pet groomer, 5) Buy a new chair mat, since the one Ive been using seems to have holes worn it from playing eve. 6) Do some nice system maintenance on my computer, should run eve much better next time I play it. 7-100) All the other things that I put off to play eve.
I think maybe there should be quarterly weekend failures. My wife and my dog appreciate what youve done.
Sincerly,
Death Merchant
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fairimear
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:18:00 -
[20]
im not to bothered as i did't lose any skill time.
But frankly the ones saying it's not ccp's fault so should not compinsate are probably not in the group of players that suffered.
They pay ccp to provide eve, and to pay for server maintinance.
They then pay the provider not us.
And to that end CCP is responsible to see that the prouct they are paid to pay for works and any 1 that is involved their end has it working.
So yes CCP as the ones we pay are the only reasonable ones to blame/seek compensation from.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Matthew
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: BARF Will CCP be making plans so when this happens again there is something that can be done within a few hours to remedy the problem?
From what I hear, the problem was that 3 major backbone routers went down over the weekend. These are certainly not owned by CCP, and may not even be owned by their ISP. That's the downside with the internet, so many people own so many different bits and supply different people under different contracts, that chasing down just who should be doing what can take time, and a gang of high-powered lawyers. Short of CCP taking over the entire backbone infrastructure of the net, there's very little they can do.
Originally by: BARF Compenstaion for the game play and time lost, may have not been CCP's problem. But you deliver a product if you cannot deliver you owe me a refund just like RL I dont care if your supplier was asleep at the wheel all weekend not my issue :) make it right on the basis of good customer service.
Customer service and goodwill issues aside, the structure of the internet makes this whole thing a very grey area. CCP are responsible for keeping their servers online, but at the same time you are responsible for providing yourself with an internet connection to the eve server. Now, if it's the eve server's connection that goes down, it's obviously CCP's fault. If it's your connection to your ISP, it's your responsibility. But what happens if it's some random link in the middle? Where do you draw the line? As far as they're concerned, their server is online and connected. As far as you're concerned, you're online and connected. In that situation, neither of you are to blame, it's the muppet in the middle with the broken router. The best you can do is shout very loudly at the owner of said router (which CCP have undoubtably been doing) until they fix it.
Originally by: fairimear But frankly the ones saying it's not ccp's fault so should not compinsate are probably not in the group of players that suffered.
They pay ccp to provide eve, and to pay for server maintinance.
They then pay the provider not us.
And to that end CCP is responsible to see that the prouct they are paid to pay for works and any 1 that is involved their end has it working
But they also agreed to be responsible for providing their own internet connection to access eve. At what point in the chain does responsibility pass from CCP to the user? You wouldn't expect CCP to compensate you and be responsible for it if your ISP went down, you'd moan at your ISP. But what if the fault is one hop on from your ISP? As far as you're concerned you're connected to the internet, but can't access eve. Should CCP take responsibility at that point, when really it's your ISP's provider that's messed up, and it's probably 5+ hops away from anything CCP can touch. Maybe we should run a traceroute, and split the run in half, whoever's nearest the fault takes responsibility?
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 13:47:00 -
[22]
This is why I never wanted to get into any kind of network administration. When things are working great, your department's invisible. But if one little thing goes wrong for even the shortest time, you're head's on the chopping block and some tubby guy starts sharpening his axe.
Look, this is an online game. CCP does not own the internet, so they can't be held responsible for connectivity issues stemming from a user's ISP or their shoddy wireless LAN setups. However, they're really great for handling their stuff at their end.
When have you ever heard of any network connection problem that didn't get investigated afterwards? CCP is also very good at being forthcoming with information about network problems, and their aftermath reporting has never been anything like 'Dunno why that happened! Bye!' And yes, they've been more willing to give free playtime to people when patches go bad than any other developer out there, and not because of the fracking whiners on the forums.
So can we please put an end to the chicken little threads? Pretty please?
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
SPIONKOP
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Posted - 2005.06.27 14:51:00 -
[23]
I had some ISP problems a few weeks ago, sounds similar to whats went on this weekend.
I do not expect CCP to refund the time i lost, its not their fault.
However it maybe a wise move for CCP to put in some form of alternate route so at least folks can train skills and watch the forums for updates. As I am no network engineer I am not even sure that they could do anything in this case, maybe someone from CCP could post a dev blog?
By the way, what did go wrong?
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GlimmerMan
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Posted - 2005.06.27 15:16:00 -
[24]
I wish you morons would get it in your head that CCP owes you fk all, it was a problem beyond their control.
If you're going to a concert having bought the tickets beforehand and on the way realise that the bridge over the river has been washed away and the next one is too far away so you'll miss the concert, do you really think the concert promoter should refund you? Perhaps the bridge owner, afterall freak weather conditions are their fault aren't they, they should have built 4 backup bridges in case of the freak chance that the main one fails!
F***ing leeches like you BARF make me sick. Always trying to get something for nothing when you're not entitles to it. You're the kind of person who sues a charity organisation for millions because you slipped on the wet pavement outside their shop. Who cares if 1,000s of needy people lose out as long as you're good, eh?
Blowing s**t up since May 2003
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Oveur
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Posted - 2005.06.27 15:24:00 -
[25]
We're still investigating what cause this. But to describe what we have done to try to address this, here goes (oh, and no I am by far a network admin, so bear with me )
Last Thursday we put up a proper multi-homing setup. This means we not only have standard redundancy where you have two fibers to the same provider, but also redundancy between providers - so we also have a connection to multiple providers now working in paralell (as opposed to having a "standby" fiber link to another one).
Last Saturday, some crazy **** starts to happen to routes for about 1000 of our customers distributed all over the world. There was no localized pattern, people from Canada as well as Australia were having problems connecting. Still, it was not the whole countries that went out either, only select providers, so this pointed toward routing for sure.
Anyways, we try to locate failures in close by providers network, which peer (that's means "connect to each other") with either of our backbone providers to try to trace back to some points which could be causing this. But didn't find anything conclusive (as pointed out earlier, other cores went out and can certainly have been the cause, but still not conclusively so)
What we did today was to manipulate our end of the setup, talking to our backbone providers and changing a bit BGP setups in hopes that it would lead to the people which had such bad routes to use atlernative routes!
Seems to have worked for the most parts, we will try a couple of other tricks tomorrow with our providers but so far, those that had problems seem to be able to connect again.
We still have our special IP address (157.157.139.10) open and answering ICMP pings so if you still have problems, please try to do a traceroute to that destination and paste it here.
We are doing everything we can to fix this from our side, but as pointed out here earlier, it's not just some buttons we need to press, this is the internet, if it's outside our providers network, it's hell to get back into order
However, to answer the initial poster, there is no structured compensation for events like this. We don't control the internet and the EULA clearly states that we are not responsible for any outages which might occur due it, we can't even see who had problems and who didn't because you didn't even reach our systems at all!
However, I can understand any loss any of you experienced due to this. I suggest you contact a GM, and if it's within reason I'm sure he will try to assist you as much as he can. _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol. |
Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.06.27 16:26:00 -
[26]
OMG OVeur fix t3h intarweb u nub.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 16:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Oveur We still have our special IP address (157.157.139.10) open and answering ICMP pings so if you still have problems, please try to do a traceroute to that destination and paste it here.
Heh, is that TomB's CS:Source machine?
"Six digit ping? What the frack?"
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.06.27 16:52:00 -
[28]
i dont care for being componsated for the 2 days i lost accoutn wise. but i would like to have my agent standings which i lost and the 2 days training time i lost restored some how ( just my luck that my skill finnished 1 hr after loosing connection) _____
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.06.27 17:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: dantes inferno i dont care for being componsated for the 2 days i lost accoutn wise. but i would like to have my agent standings which i lost and the 2 days training time i lost restored some how ( just my luck that my skill finnished 1 hr after loosing connection)
How the hell was your agent standing affected by two days of connection problems?
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.06.27 17:52:00 -
[30]
if you use your head i could of been in a middle of an mission which came to an end during those 2 days which made me losse standings with the agent and faction. _____
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