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| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
 Herko Kerghans    |
Posted - 2005.09.03 15:35:00 -
[31]
Hum... not that it changes anything I know, but as RPer an sometimes contributor here in to the Library, I gotta say I'm kind of disappointed with CCP for this move... Chronicles are the backbone of PF, the "bible" if you will to see what is "real" in EVE. For example, there was always much debate if pod pilots had crews in their ships or not (some chronicles mentioned them, but it was not entirely clear since ships in game have no relation whatsoever with crews). Yet the last Chronicles was very clear. Yes they do. So whenever you want to "imagine" EVE beyond the game interface (that's what the backstory is there for), now your ships clearly have crew. All the backstory, timelines... even the fanfiction present in this Library, all of that you an access for free, you dont even have to have an account to read them... seems kinda low to have the chronicles in another format which has to be paid extra for. I don't know... perhaps publish on this website the chronicles of E-ON number (n) when you put number (n+1) on the store would be an ok intermediate solution? Nobody is going to buy the magazine for the chronicles only, so it's not like E-ON will lose customers if they are made available later. Just a thought. - Nightmare of a star god |
 Herko Kerghans Taleweaver |
Posted - 2005.09.03 15:35:00 -
[32]
Hum... not that it changes anything I know, but as RPer an sometimes contributor here in to the Library, I gotta say I'm kind of disappointed with CCP for this move... Chronicles are the backbone of PF, the "bible" if you will to see what is "real" in EVE. For example, there was always much debate if pod pilots had crews in their ships or not (some chronicles mentioned them, but it was not entirely clear since ships in game have no relation whatsoever with crews). Yet the last Chronicles was very clear. Yes they do. So whenever you want to "imagine" EVE beyond the game interface (that's what the backstory is there for), now your ships clearly have crew. All the backstory, timelines... even the fanfiction present in this Library, all of that you an access for free, you dont even have to have an account to read them... seems kinda low to have the chronicles in another format which has to be paid extra for. I don't know... perhaps publish on this website the chronicles of E-ON number (n) when you put number (n+1) on the store would be an ok intermediate solution? Nobody is going to buy the magazine for the chronicles only, so it's not like E-ON will lose customers if they are made available later. Just a thought. Barriers - an EVE novel - Chapter #4 released |
 Discorporation |
Posted - 2005.09.03 16:04:00 -
[33] 'S no reason people can't take the info from the E-On Chronicles and put it on a site, Herko :) Just don't scan em :p [23] |
 Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.09.03 16:04:00 -
[34] 'S no reason people can't take the info from the E-On Chronicles and put it on a site, Herko :) Just don't scan em :p |
 Herko Kerghans |
Posted - 2005.09.03 16:36:00 -
[35]
Aye. But it's just not the same. As RPer and customer of a fantasy game like this, can't feel a bit disappointed with CCP about this move. I mean... the magazine has a comparison between the 8 HACs. Cool, there is no "official" CCP information about the subject, and HACs are discussed in every Corp forum. Wherever you find that info, it is up to you what to do with it, there is no "official" way of flying a HAC. Yet Prime Fiction is PF for a reason... it is there, on the backstory, on that link at the upper left of the screen. That is what makes a difference between PF and, say, a discussion you and I may have about where is Ni Kunni Prime. Dunno, just a comment. Ain't nothing big.  - Nightmare of a star god |
Herko Kerghans Taleweaver |
Posted - 2005.09.03 16:36:00 -
[36]
Aye. But it's just not the same. As RPer and customer of a fantasy game like this, can't feel a bit disappointed with CCP about this move. I mean... the magazine has a comparison between the 8 HACs. Cool, there is no "official" CCP information about the subject, and HACs are discussed in every Corp forum. Wherever you find that info, it is up to you what to do with it, there is no "official" way of flying a HAC. Yet Prime Fiction is PF for a reason... it is there, on the backstory, on that link at the upper left of the screen. That is what makes a difference between PF and, say, a discussion you and I may have about where is Ni Kunni Prime. Dunno, just a comment. Ain't nothing big. Barriers - an EVE novel - Chapter #4 released |
 Zapatero  |
Posted - 2005.09.03 20:11:00 -
[37] Edited by: Zapatero on 03/09/2005 20:11:36
I see your point Herko, but would you have CCP offer a free live tele-feed from the fanfest so those that don't go can reap the benefit for zero outlay? There has to be a benefit for those that buy into something and that benefit is exclusivity. Without it EON would not survive and these stories probably wouldn't get written at all. Anyway, maybe sometime in the future there will be an anthology of stories both from the site and the mag. Perhaps we will release some of the old 'new' Chronicles to the the website. We'll see. Don't be downhearted, there is still hope  ------------------------------------ Editor, EON http://www.eve-online.com/eon/ Issue #001 Oct 05 |
 Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.03 20:11:00 -
[38] Edited by: Zapatero on 03/09/2005 20:11:36
I see your point Herko, but would you have CCP offer a free live tele-feed from the fanfest so those that don't go can reap the benefit for zero outlay? There has to be a benefit for those that buy into something and that benefit is exclusivity. Without it EON would not survive and these stories probably wouldn't get written at all. Anyway, maybe sometime in the future there will be an anthology of stories both from the site and the mag. Perhaps we will release some of the old 'new' Chronicles to the the website. We'll see. Don't be downhearted, there is still hope EON magazine - MMM Publishing - EON Awards |
Nikolai Nuvolari |
Posted - 2005.09.03 21:59:00 -
[39] I have to agree with Herko here, splitting the PF into "Free Electronic" and "Paid Hardcopy" sections is the wrong way to go. If you want to make E-ON exclusive, make it so it published before EVE-Online.com. But NEVER publishing something that is PF on the website is a bad idea. ___________________________________________ ^^^***---All things serve the Beam---***^^^ GDBT is recruiting! |
 Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet |
Posted - 2005.09.03 21:59:00 -
[40] I have to agree with Herko here, splitting the PF into "Free Electronic" and "Paid Hardcopy" sections is the wrong way to go. If you want to make E-ON exclusive, make it so it published before EVE-Online.com. But NEVER publishing something that is PF on the website is a bad idea. --------------------- Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! |
Herko Kerghans |
Posted - 2005.09.04 05:32:00 -
[41]
*smiles* C'mon mate, the "reap the benefits for zero outlays" doesn't apply for a couple of reasons... you pay to go to the fanfest to enjoy meeting people there; i bet you anything (free subscription to E-ON? ) that not TV feed (because it costs a lot), but photos of the fanfest will be published by CCP. It costs nothing to them.And exclusivity, while an advantage for having that uber HAC setup or knowing the best trade route, it is no advantage at all when it comes to RPing and producing player fiction about a common, shared backstory. Put it this way: i like having a unique setup for my ship, gives me an edge in combat. But being the only one to know that the Gallente were not French but in fact from Quebec... what does it add to me? The interesting thing is to RP with others that have to have the same "base" as myself. The Gallente bombed Caldari Prime, and that's it... we can RP it from different angles, yet the "fact" that it happened is clear to all. It gives me no "advantage" having exclusive knowledge... what is the point? I need you to know the same as I do if I want to RP with you. And I don't know if the contributors to the E-ON get paid or not (and I understand if you cannot confirm or deny it for business reasons), but many of the Chronicles so far were written by players and volunteers, so the "these stories probably wouldn't get written at all" line does not quite apply. Eve fiction is driven in no small part by pro bono effort; look at Aurora, the event actors and producer, the dudes writing the news and so forth. In fact you only have to look around this section to see there are people who would kill to write chronicles for free.
That would be a nice solution indeed. Dunno, as I said, not very happy with CCP for this move. Guess we will have to wait and see. - Nightmare of a star god |
Herko Kerghans Taleweaver |
Posted - 2005.09.04 05:32:00 -
[42]
*smiles* C'mon mate, the "reap the benefits for zero outlays" doesn't apply for a couple of reasons... you pay to go to the fanfest to enjoy meeting people there; i bet you anything (free subscription to E-ON? ) that not TV feed (because it costs a lot), but photos of the fanfest will be published by CCP. It costs nothing to them.And exclusivity, while an advantage for having that uber HAC setup or knowing the best trade route, it is no advantage at all when it comes to RPing and producing player fiction about a common, shared backstory. Put it this way: i like having a unique setup for my ship, gives me an edge in combat. But being the only one to know that the Gallente were not French but in fact from Quebec... what does it add to me? The interesting thing is to RP with others that have to have the same "base" as myself. The Gallente bombed Caldari Prime, and that's it... we can RP it from different angles, yet the "fact" that it happened is clear to all. It gives me no "advantage" having exclusive knowledge... what is the point? I need you to know the same as I do if I want to RP with you. And I don't know if the contributors to the E-ON get paid or not (and I understand if you cannot confirm or deny it for business reasons), but many of the Chronicles so far were written by players and volunteers, so the "these stories probably wouldn't get written at all" line does not quite apply. Eve fiction is driven in no small part by pro bono effort; look at Aurora, the event actors and producer, the dudes writing the news and so forth. In fact you only have to look around this section to see there are people who would kill to write chronicles for free.
That would be a nice solution indeed. Dunno, as I said, not very happy with CCP for this move. Guess we will have to wait and see. Barriers - an EVE novel - Chapter #4 released |
Meer |
Posted - 2005.09.04 05:44:00 -
[43] Reading through this made me wonder, Are all new stories going to be in the magazine only? Or just a few? I mean i can understand a few, but if suddenly all lore ends up available by buying a magazine only, then I would say that is very unfair. |
 Meer Gallente |
Posted - 2005.09.04 05:44:00 -
[44] Reading through this made me wonder, Are all new stories going to be in the magazine only? Or just a few? I mean i can understand a few, but if suddenly all lore ends up available by buying a magazine only, then I would say that is very unfair. |
 Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.04 10:45:00 -
[45]
OK, ok ,'never' was perhaps too strong a word. As I've said, perhaps the stories will be released in some other form in due course. ------------------------------------ Editor, EON http://www.eve-online.com/eon/ Issue #001 Oct 05 |
Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.04 10:45:00 -
[46]
OK, ok ,'never' was perhaps too strong a word. As I've said, perhaps the stories will be released in some other form in due course. EON magazine - MMM Publishing - EON Awards |
Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.04 12:00:00 -
[47]
Actually, photographers are pretty expensive, which may've been the reason there wasnÆt one last year. This year there will be, and he will be taking pictures that will only appear in the magazine - only a few, granted, most will be available online. DonÆt worry, you donÆt have to buy me a subscription to EON. 
What bothers you? Is it that the stories are denied you, or the æfactsÆ within them? You can have the facts, IÆll email them to you. IÆm concerned with stories that are entertaining and fun, perhaps even elucidating in ways that make us question ourselves as players and as humans. If you take a story down to mere facts the story is destroyed.
Actually the four stories in issue #1 of EON have been written as a consequence of my contacting the writers directly; they were not some old word doc that was hanging around on a hard drive and 'tarted up' for the mag. Maybe the stories would have been written in time (I'm certainly not going to take any credit away from the talented writers who wrote them), but were it not for EON they certainly wouldn't enjoyed the same collaborative attentions (editing, artwork, etc) as other stories.
If I asked you to write a story for EON, would you? Seeing your name in print, your story and characters alive on the printed page, in some small way immortal...? ------------------------------------ Editor, EON http://www.eve-online.com/eon/ Issue #001 Oct 05 |
Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.04 12:00:00 -
[48]
Actually, photographers are pretty expensive, which may've been the reason there wasnÆt one last year. This year there will be, and he will be taking pictures that will only appear in the magazine - only a few, granted, most will be available online. DonÆt worry, you donÆt have to buy me a subscription to EON.
What bothers you? Is it that the stories are denied you, or the æfactsÆ within them? You can have the facts, IÆll email them to you. IÆm concerned with stories that are entertaining and fun, perhaps even elucidating in ways that make us question ourselves as players and as humans. If you take a story down to mere facts the story is destroyed.
Actually the four stories in issue #1 of EON have been written as a consequence of my contacting the writers directly; they were not some old word doc that was hanging around on a hard drive and 'tarted up' for the mag. Maybe the stories would have been written in time (I'm certainly not going to take any credit away from the talented writers who wrote them), but were it not for EON they certainly wouldn't enjoyed the same collaborative attentions (editing, artwork, etc) as other stories.
If I asked you to write a story for EON, would you? Seeing your name in print, your story and characters alive on the printed page, in some small way immortal...? EON magazine - MMM Publishing - EON Awards |
 Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.04 12:05:00 -
[49]
Indeed that would be unfair. The only stories that will be in EON are the stories written for EON. A steady stream of chronicles and stories will appear online as they always have done  ------------------------------------ Editor, EON http://www.eve-online.com/eon/ Issue #001 Oct 05 |
Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.04 12:05:00 -
[50]
Indeed that would be unfair. The only stories that will be in EON are the stories written for EON. A steady stream of chronicles and stories will appear online as they always have done EON magazine - MMM Publishing - EON Awards |
 Discorporation |
Posted - 2005.09.04 12:35:00 -
[51]
Anyone you ask will write one  [23] |
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2005.09.04 12:35:00 -
[52]
Anyone you ask will write one |
 Qw Vni |
Posted - 2005.09.04 18:10:00 -
[53]
Then I see no problem with having some stories exclusive to Eon. |
 Qw Vni |
Posted - 2005.09.04 18:10:00 -
[54]
Then I see no problem with having some stories exclusive to Eon. |
Herko Kerghans |
Posted - 2005.09.05 02:38:00 -
[55]
I love stories man, I love stories to a degree difficult to express. Check around, you will see. ThatÆs why IÆm bothering you so much (sorry, itÆs just a matter of the heart!) Yet ôrealityö is also crucial. The best Chronicles are also very, very good stories... but the majority are just "ok" at best. Some of them are not even "stories", for example take "Titans"... this is closer to a news piece, or a documentary, than a "story". Yet they are crucial to the EVE universe because they are ôrealö. We players can create stories, as proven by this Libraryà but only CCP can create EVE history (or put the ôHistorical Seal of Approvalö on a player written story). Andà that ôrealityö, that Prime Fictions has to be ôcommonö to all of us, because it is the ôrealityö. We can have different views on ità but not exclusive access, for the simple reason that the pleasure of stories is in the sharing a common story among all of us. Having exclusive access to the facts serves me no good, because I want to be in the same alternative reality as you. ThatÆs why Prime Fiction is for, giving us the common ground. Put it this other way: when in E-ON you write about Titans, HACs, devs interviews... you are writing about EVE content. Superb, go for it. Yetà when you publish Chronicles, something with the ôHistorical Seal Of Approvalö from CCP, you are actually producing EVE content itself. Or better said, CCP is releasing new content, Prime Fiction, with a premium for it, and dividing ôrealityö among those with access and those without. That's the reason of the fuss, in a nutshell.
I apologize if I sounded too harsh, I was not implying in no way that the E-ON crew just copy/pasted things or published mediocre material (and I know how it bothers when buggers like me complain about your workà happens to me all the time from Monday through Friday). What I am not very happy with is, as said above, having a premium paid for exclusive content. If for "exclusive" you mean "in advance"... all for it! Most magazines do that anyway, let you see their content on the web with a certain delay... (and nobody is going to buy E-ON just because of the Chronicles, you can tell that to your MKT dept... )
I would kill for the opportunity, in a very RL sense, as long it is smaller than a cat and can be done with a car. And I'm not alone. Yet I stand by what I said; stories are for ôdreamingö among all of us an alternative reality. Having the CCP/EON seal on one of the tales I tell would be Heaven... as long as, at some point in the future, we can share it with all the EVE community. I know, IÆm na´ve beyond repairà - Do lab tub children dream of Caldari Prime? |
Herko Kerghans Taleweaver |
Posted - 2005.09.05 02:38:00 -
[56] Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 05/09/2005 08:42:11
I love stories man, I love stories to a degree difficult to express. Check around, you will see. ThatÆs why IÆm bothering you so much (sorry, itÆs just a matter of the heart!) Yet ôrealityö is also crucial. The best Chronicles are also very, very good stories... but the majority are just "ok" at best. Some of them are not even "stories", for example take "Titans"... this is closer to a news piece, or a documentary, than a "story". Yet they are crucial to the EVE universe because they are ôrealö. We players can create stories, as proven by this Libraryà but only CCP can create EVE history (or put the ôHistorical Seal of Approvalö on a player written story). Andà that ôrealityö, that Prime Fictions has to be ôcommonö to all of us, because it is the ôrealityö. We can have different views on ità but not exclusive access, for the simple reason that the pleasure of stories is in the sharing a common story among all of us. Having exclusive access to the facts serves me no good, because I want to be in the same alternative reality as you. ThatÆs why Prime Fiction is for, giving us the common ground. Put it this other way: when in E-ON you write about Titans, HACs, devs interviews... you are writing about EVE content. Superb, go for it. Yetà when you publish Chronicles, something with the ôHistorical Seal Of Approvalö from CCP, you are actually producing EVE content itself. Or better said, CCP is releasing new content, Prime Fiction, with a premium for it, and dividing ôrealityö among those with access and those without. That's the reason of the fuss, in a nutshell.
I apologize if I sounded too harsh, I was not implying in no way that the E-ON crew just copy/pasted things or published mediocre material (and I know how it bothers when buggers like me complain about your workà happens to me all the time from Monday through Friday). What I am not very happy with is, as said above, having a premium paid for exclusive content. If you want... I am a tad sad that you have to to CCP's job; wish they would put a bigger effort in creating lore and backstory instead of putting bigger, flashier toys. And having 4 chronicles in the mag when they published four or five all this year is... dunno, not exactly right. If for "exclusive" you mean "in advance"... all for it! Most magazines do that anyway, let you see their content on the web with a certain delay... (and nobody is going to buy E-ON just because of the Chronicles, you can tell that to your MKT dept... )
I would kill for the opportunity, in a very RL sense, as long it is smaller than a cat and can be done with a car. And I'm not alone. Yet I stand by what I said; stories are for ôdreamingö among all of us an alternative reality. Having the CCP/EON seal on one of the tales I tell, saying "this is not fiction, this is >real<" would be Heaven... as long as, at some point in the future, we can share this "reality" with all the EVE community. I know, IÆm nanve beyond repairà (edit: spelling) Barriers - an EVE novel - Chapter #4 released |
Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.05 11:24:00 -
[57]
The defence rests, m'lud. (Sorry, but you fell into my dastardly trap.) Sorry you feel the way that you do, and I see your argument to a point, but I'll not labour my own any more. Let me just reiterate that the EON Chronicles will probably get a second airing further down the line, how and when I don't know as yet. When they do, we'll share a beer and discuss the probability of squeezing a squad of marines into a scan probe .------------------------------------ Editor, EON http://www.eve-online.com/eon/ Issue #001 Oct 05 |
Zapatero |
Posted - 2005.09.05 11:24:00 -
[58]
The defence rests, m'lud. (Sorry, but you fell into my dastardly trap.) Sorry you feel the way that you do, and I see your argument to a point, but I'll not labour my own any more. Let me just reiterate that the EON Chronicles will probably get a second airing further down the line, how and when I don't know as yet. When they do, we'll share a beer and discuss the probability of squeezing a squad of marines into a scan probe .EON magazine - MMM Publishing - EON Awards |
 Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal |
Posted - 2005.09.05 23:12:00 -
[59] I guess roleplayer will have to buy the mag or get someone to send them a scan of the chronicles at least. Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence. |
 Herko Kerghans |
Posted - 2005.09.06 01:18:00 -
[60] Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 06/09/2005 05:18:28
*smiles* Oh, I did, didn't I? Told you, naive beyond repair... I'd like to ask you what is that you trapped there... but I guess you are not going to tell me your story. You seem to prefer to sell those. Oh well, anyway... the world is on your side on this issue anyway, so I guess I am wrong. - - Do lab tub children dream of Caldari Prime? |
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