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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
904
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Word in the forums about comming resource changes have brought up an interesting idea to discuss: How would POS fuel & other markets be affected if icefields were moved out of HI SEC? Seems to me with the LONG Ice Harvestor cycles harvesting in NULL/LO is overly risky unless you are in deep SOV. Also WH's have no Ice fields would they quicky be taking a POS fuel hike hit due to thier dependance on transporting it in? Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 slot 1, Mike Azariah slot 2 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon? |
Daimon Kaiera
213
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:affected if icefields were moved out of HI SEC?
I can see where this thread is going.
Crash and burn. Here by talk start if go able? |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
895
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
It would be a pretty sad state of affairs if it cost a billion a month or more to fuel a basic POS, something which people should aspire to do, because all the ice was moved into null.
But yes, from personal experience, nullsec mining is rarely done except for when surrounded by a large buffer of blues. These minerals and ice almost all go towards the local POS towers. |
stoicfaux
2590
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aside from bots, those who inhabit null/low don't strike me as the "mine ice until they drop dead of boredom" types. Moving the fields plus a major bot ban by CCP would probably crash the economy in both null and high. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Aside from bots, those who inhabit null/low don't strike me as the "mine ice until they drop dead of boredom" types. Moving the fields plus a major bot ban by CCP would probably crash the economy in both null and high.
Why would that be bad? |
J'Ribs
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maybe Ice will run out.
The Jita belts ran out.
|
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
88
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
J'Ribs wrote:Maybe Ice will run out.
The Jita belts ran out.
The Ice must flow. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
904
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 19:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
J'Ribs wrote:Maybe Ice will run out.
The Jita belts ran out.
Or a change that made ICE fields deplete quicker ( yes they do occasionally pop)? Though that would pissoff the western Pacific TZ's again to no end. Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 slot 1, Mike Azariah slot 2 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon? |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
478
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ice fields have been nerfed before.
They were not set to deplete like asteroids belts, but completely removed from the game map.
While I doubt that ice fields will disappear entirely from any region of EVE, I would not be surprised to see both:
a) ice fields set to deplete, in the same fashion as asteroids, and b) at least partially relocated in the form of a scannable site, aka: "comets". Call it a "gas cloud with ice". Whatever.
Particularly since we're getting a whole new spin on "Scanning" with Odyssey -- some form of diminished, but relocated ice supply is at least plausible.
We might even see some manifestation of "ring mining", although not much has been said about that wondrous notion since the last Fanfest ( CCP Soundwave's keynote speech, IIRC).
In the meantime, stay tuned to Fanfest for any juicy tidbits of actual fact -- or not.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
307
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gravimetric site only(of sorts).
Aquametric?
/nod "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1323
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
I want more action mining to get the most out of the speed and manoeuvrability of my Skiff. The +10% ores just don't cut it. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
895
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'd be all in favour of exploration being required to find them. Maybe 1 or 2 comets automatically spread out among each constellation, with enough ice in them to last 3 or 4 hours at the mining levels of the current belts.
If you really want to make ice mining worthwhile you make every offline POS explode after 3 weeks and then watch as all those offline towers get replaced by new ones all requiring fuel.
Maybe add battleship rats to ice belts as well. I can see a new profession forming, merc logistics that would rep anyone they had on their books as having paid a monthly "protection" fee when they came under attack from the NPCs. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1571
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Or a change that made ICE fields deplete quicker ( yes they do occasionally pop)? Though that would pissoff the western Pacific TZ's again to no end. Thanks, ****. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. Voter response is quite good this time around: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qCaz2OlMecY/UWhTTh_NfFI/AAAAAAAAPOE/ryjfQkApycs/s1600/05.jpg |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
845
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Even just leaving them in highsec but setting them to deplete would probably triple the price of isotopes. Do other things, and it goes up from there. Mynnna for CSM 8 |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
478
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Gravimetric site only(of sorts).
Aquametric?
/nod
Yeah, a "gravimetric" would do... and CCP could be really imaginative and seed "comets" around the edges of any given star system.
For lack of a better term, call it an "Oort Cloud" idea.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
turmajin
The Scope Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
I dont really think ICE will be moved out of high sec to be honest.The price would sky rocket,and only the alliances with massive ISK incomes could realy offord to keep furling moon POSes ect in any numbers.Which would be a substantial barrier to new corps getting into null and even low .I can see ICE fields being depleted as do the asteriod fields atm,and that would be advantagous to some degree in liniting POSes on moons.But again it would wildly affect the big rich alliances .New sorces of ICE products would also be nice COMETS or ICE clounds. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
turmajin wrote:I dont really think ICE will be moved out of high sec to be honest.The price would sky rocket,and only the alliances with massive ISK incomes could realy offord to keep furling moon POSes ect in any numbers.Which would be a substantial barrier to new corps getting into null and even low .I can see ICE fields being depleted as do the asteriod fields atm,and that would be advantagous to some degree in liniting POSes on moons.But again it would wildly affect the big rich alliances .New sorces of ICE products wouldnt also be nice COMETS or ICE clounds.
The NEW source of ICE products will be the FROZEN tears of posters here, flash frozen into VALUABLE products by the pure cold OF nullsec. WORD.
|
Djana Libra
The Black Ops S2N Citizens
140
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
ice mining alt wanting to drive the price up spotted! |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Djana Libra wrote:ice mining alt wanting to drive the price up spotted!
confirming that market speculation, measured by ISK invested, is done primarily by casual miners, and not quintillionaire traders.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
6012
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:Djana Libra wrote:ice mining alt wanting to drive the price up spotted! confirming that market speculation, measured by ISK invested, is done primarily by casual miners, and not quintillionaire traders.
It was EN24 that caused one of the ice spikes. |
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forestwho
Foonfleet Investment Banking
45
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
He said it right,
High sec ice gets moved to wormholespace,
now pls move along |
Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
38
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
turmajin wrote:I dont really think ICE will be moved out of high sec to be honest.The price would sky rocket,and only the alliances with massive ISK incomes could realy offord to keep furling moon POSes ect in any numbers.Which would be a substantial barrier to new corps getting into null and even low .I can see ICE fields being depleted as do the asteriod fields atm,and that would be advantagous to some degree in liniting POSes on moons.But again it wouldnt wildly affect the big rich alliances .New sorces of ICE products wouldnt also be nice COMETS or ICE clounds.Ring mining i dont see happening till at least next year tbh
Yes, the price would skyrocket. Yes, this would become another massive income stream for the null sec cartels. Which is precisely what will likely happen.
Listen/watch what Soundwave said in the Twitch TV podcast about a week ago. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
905
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Ice fields have been nerfed before.
While I doubt that ice fields will disappear entirely from any region of EVE, I would not be surprised to see both:
Well actually there are no ICE fields in the entire regions of WH's ( but you're technically correct that they wouldn't disappear from there since they are not already there )
Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 slot 1, Mike Azariah slot 2 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon? |
baltec1
Bat Country
6013
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
So we have evidence of this? |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3142
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:So we have evidence of this?
This thread has 'speculation' in the title. Evidence and/or proof and/or facts are not required. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1759
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Gravimetric site only(of sorts).
Aquametric?
/nod Yeah, a "gravimetric" would do... and CCP could be really imaginative and seed "comets" around the edges of any given star system. For lack of a better term, call it an "Oort Cloud" idea. One issue with making them all grav sites is barges and exhumers do not have a utility high for the probe launcher. Or the discovery scanner, whatever it is. The result is a lengthy process of first scanning with one ship, then going back and getting the miner.
Then again if the ice site is so huge miners are willing to share I could see ice mining chat channels springing up where you ask if there is a nearby site, and fleeting up to get a warp-in. (no gankers will not be that big an issue with that system, as its no easier than warping to an ice miner right now). This would actually foster interaction between miners. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 21:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:So we have evidence of this?
google: ccp soundwave twitch interview , read top link .
tl;dr: soundwave says maybe changing Ice to be more like oil on earth, and less like a commodity manufactured by bots in highsec, could be good.
Take that for what it is. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1759
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
There is always my "erupting comet" idea.
Replace ice belts with comets. They could be fixed, findable on D-scan, or with probes. Comets are mined just like ice roids. Fly up to it, target and mine. Comets have gas eruptions. These start out as a visible cloud pattern on the surface. If you see one under your ship you got a minute to fly away. If you do not fly away the eruption takes place and pushes your ship away from the comet, breaking your mining cycle. Exotic ices could have eruptions that damage your ship.
The eruptions would come often enough that if you just started mining and went afk you could be fairly sure that in 10 minutes or so you would get hit by an eruption. Note that blindly orbiting the comet does not help as you could just as easily fly into an eruption as fly away from one.
Now for a bot to mine this it will need to be able to read the screen had recognize the pre-eruption pattern. Quite possible, but not by your basic bot. CCP could mess the bots up more by having dozens of different cloud patterns, some signifying an eruption, others not, and changing it day to day. A player could figure it out by watching the comet for a few minutes. The bot.. might have issues.
Isboxer users would also have an issue. Usually they spread their ships all over a belt. But with a comet that would mean each is over a different part and subject to different eruptions. A common command of, say, "fly down" would not work for all ships. They could cluster the barges all close to each other so they can all be moved out of the way of the same eruption, but that makes them smartbomb fodder. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3144
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ive got the perfect solution.
Make Ice fields and asteroids depletable and never respawn.
Make asteroid fields and icebelts regenerate by making planets destructible.
Planet splosion = More rocks and Ice.
Miners are happy about all the new rocks and balls of ice, Everyone else is happy because they have planets to shoot and watch explode.
As for planets respawning... well, we will leave that up to the mice. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
905
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Ive got the perfect solution.
Make Ice fields and asteroids depletable and never respawn.
Make asteroid fields and icebelts regenerate by making planets MOONS destructible.
FIXED & this too redistributes moon goo in NULL Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 slot 1, Mike Azariah slot 2 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon? |
|
baltec1
Bat Country
6013
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Ive got the perfect solution.
Make Ice fields and asteroids depletable and never respawn.
Make asteroid fields and icebelts regenerate by making planets destructible.
Planet splosion = More rocks and Ice.
Miners are happy about all the new rocks and balls of ice, Everyone else is happy because they have planets to shoot and watch explode.
As for planets respawning... well, we will leave that up to the mice.
And when all the planets/moons are gone? |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3144
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
And when all the planets/moons are gone?
Itll be up to the mice to commission more. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
905
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:baltec1 wrote:
And when all the planets/moons are gone?
Itll be up to the mice to commission more.
42 Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 slot 1, Mike Azariah slot 2 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon? |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:baltec1 wrote:
And when all the planets/moons are gone?
Itll be up to the mice to commission more.
The mice all ate of the blue donut, but the blue donut was colored with FD&C blue dye no. 1(also known as "brilliant blue"). "In 2003, when Brilliant Blue was used as a dye in feeding tubes, the FDA issued a public health advisory because of side effects like blue-tinged skin, urine, and *****, as well as hypotension and death. "
tl;dr, the mice are all dead, and without new moons/planets, we're next.
1. Source: Food and Chemical Toxicology 52 (2013) 19GÇô27 http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.fct.2012.10.027, GÇÿAbsorption of triphenylmethane dyes Brilliant Blue and Patent Blue through intact skin, shaven skin and lingual mucosa from daily life productsGÇÖ
|
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
376
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ice is the life-blood of EvE. I'm pretty sure if it were removed from highsec it would have disastrous consequences. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
525
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:J'Ribs wrote:Maybe Ice will run out.
The Jita belts ran out.
The Ice must flow. Long live the fighters! This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
|
Primary Me
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
INB4 LHA Whinerwara tells us he's cancelling his 20,000 subs |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
378
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Even just leaving them in highsec but setting them to deplete would probably triple the price of isotopes. Do other things, and it goes up from there.
Would't this effectively kill any single possibility of null getting any for of industry by driving way more up the actual price of running production lines? Unless low/null for massive mining army, I don't see the production of ice ever reaching the level of high sec to even just keep the prices as is...
What about jump fuel? |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
479
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 22:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
I suppose it's always possible that the existing ice fields are nerfed and a new ice-teroid containing some amount of isotopes (composition varies by region ?) and other fuel ingredients is seeded amongt existing asteroid belts. Depletion then becomes more likely, and it's still relatively easy to access with current skills and ships.
Fun, fun, fun.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Dave Stark
2656
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 23:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
better late to the party, than to miss it all together i guess... |
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Arronicus
Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective
539
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 23:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:affected if icefields were moved out of HI SEC?
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/affect-vs-effect/
Just some useful reading for you, Darth. |
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
174
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 23:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think its just disgusting that threads of people i've blocked still show up on the forums. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 00:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
...read it yourself, he used "affected" correctly.
I'll direct you to the exact section of your link which applies here:
"Affect : A verb meaning GÇ£to produce an effect, to influenceGÇ¥: GÇ£I knew that my opinion would affect her choice, so I deliberately withheld it.GÇ¥" |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1407
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 02:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
turmajin wrote:I dont really think ICE will be moved out of high sec to be honest.The price would sky rocket,and only the alliances with massive ISK incomes could realy offord to keep furling moon POSes ect in any numbers.Which would be a substantial barrier to new corps getting into null and even low.
The thought of which probably just made some nullbear tyrant spunk himself, and now he's on the phone with his pet CSM flunkies right now to demand that exactly this happens. Q: Just how bad were missiles and drones nerfed?-á A: They're adding them to Amarr ships now. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
606
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 02:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
A fair, and potentially fun and rewarding way to rebalance power projection.
Oh sorry, screw everywhere else forever we need to make sure that THOSE PEOPLE get nothing! |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
907
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 04:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
dethleffs wrote:I think its just disgusting that threads of people i've blocked still show up on the forums.
haaa ha Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 slot 1, Mike Azariah slot 2 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon? |
Carniflex
StarHunt Intrepid Crossing
75
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 10:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
While the idea is interesting I, for a start, dont think that CCP would do it as it would cost them probably few thousand subs alltogehter when all the crazy guys running 50+ accounts ice mining drop their unneeded accounts and switch to ore with the number of accounts they can reliably control on it.
Should they rock the boat just for the sake of rocking it nothing major would happen. Ice products would be more expensive, Something in the order of ~ 1 - 2 k isk per unit is possibility, but longer term it would probably stabilize closer to 1k than 2k.
Good number of empire towers would probably shut down, T2 materials would get a bit more expensive, but nothing overly dramatic, other than some people ragequitting. The increased fuel prices would further benefit the major coalitions who dont care at all about fuel price while would decrease, probably, slightly mobility of smaller entities to whose fuel costs can be matter of importance when making decisions about moving. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
MrDiao
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 10:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP even believes that tripling the profit of mining can attract more players coming into the badly designed stupid gameplay without losing subs eventually. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8710
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 10:37:00 -
[49] - Quote
turmajin wrote:I dont really think ICE will be moved out of high sec to be honest.The price would sky rocket,and only the alliances with massive ISK incomes could realy offord to keep furling moon POSes ect in any numbers.Which would be a substantial barrier to new corps getting into null and even low .I can see ICE fields being depleted as do the asteriod fields atm,and that would be advantagous to some degree in liniting POSes on moons.But again it wouldnt wildly affect the big rich alliances .New sorces of ICE products wouldnt also be nice COMETS or ICE clounds.Ring mining i dont see happening till at least next year tbh
"OK, now it's only a small percentage, bitches"
- CCP Please vote for me for CSM8-áhere
My recommended voting list |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8710
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 10:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:turmajin wrote:I dont really think ICE will be moved out of high sec to be honest.The price would sky rocket,and only the alliances with massive ISK incomes could realy offord to keep furling moon POSes ect in any numbers.Which would be a substantial barrier to new corps getting into null and even low. The thought of which probably just made some nullbear tyrant spunk himself, and now he's on the phone with his pet CSM flunkies right now to demand that exactly this happens.
ITT: Good honest noble law-abiding democracy loving (but vote-avoiding) hi-seccers would never stoop to market speculation or profiteering. Please vote for me for CSM8-áhere
My recommended voting list |
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Dave Stark
2659
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 10:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote:turmajin wrote:I dont really think ICE will be moved out of high sec to be honest.The price would sky rocket,and only the alliances with massive ISK incomes could realy offord to keep furling moon POSes ect in any numbers.Which would be a substantial barrier to new corps getting into null and even low. The thought of which probably just made some nullbear tyrant spunk himself, and now he's on the phone with his pet CSM flunkies right now to demand that exactly this happens. ITT: Good honest noble law-abiding democracy loving (but vote-avoiding) hi-seccers would never stoop to market speculation or profiteering.
can i inb4 comment about high sec players bothering to vote to stop all 14 seats going to nullsec candidates? |
Dave Stark
2659
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 10:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:CCP even believes that tripling the profit of mining can attract more players coming into the badly designed stupid gameplay without losing subs eventually.
who wouldn't want 100m/hour for doing a max of 5 clicks every 2 mins. |
MrDiao
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 11:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:MrDiao wrote:CCP even believes that tripling the profit of mining can attract more players coming into the badly designed stupid gameplay without losing subs eventually. who wouldn't want 100m/hour for doing a max of 5 clicks every 2 mins.
And be forced to stare at the screen but don't need(or couldn't) do anything? (Assume you don't use macro script) |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
479
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 12:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:While the idea is interesting I, for a start, dont think that CCP would do it as it would cost them probably few thousand subs alltogehter when all the crazy guys running 50+ accounts ice mining drop their unneeded accounts and switch to ore with the number of accounts they can reliably control on it.
When / IF / someday the price of ice sky rockets again, "crazy guys" won't need 50 accounts to pay for their PLEX anyway.
It wasn't all that long ago ( a little under a year, according to Market histories ) that White Glaze was in the region of 450K per block -- approximately *triple* the value of what it has been for the last few months.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Dave Stark
2662
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 13:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
MrDiao wrote:Dave Stark wrote:MrDiao wrote:CCP even believes that tripling the profit of mining can attract more players coming into the badly designed stupid gameplay without losing subs eventually. who wouldn't want 100m/hour for doing a max of 5 clicks every 2 mins. And be forced to stare at the screen but don't need(or couldn't) do anything? (Assume you don't use macro script)
who looks at the screen while mining? i certainly don't. |
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 01:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
Well Darth, looks like you are correct about ice moving, or it is a massive co-incidence that some ice products in Jita have gone up, shall we say, significantly, in the past few hours, and it is just market manipulation.
Nitrogen Isotopes are now sitting a little north of 800 per unit, and were selling for half that before Soundwave made his comments about wanting to turn ice into another conflict driver like oil is in our world.
Fortunately for me, I was watching his broadcast, and started buying immediately. It does not happen very often that I can ride the coat-tails of the goon economic cabal.
Oh, and prices started trending up a few days before Soundwave's comments, but I am sure that is also co-incidence. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
484
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 19:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
On the other hand, under the broader category of "resource redistribution", CCP could just relocate most (all ?) of the High Sec ice into Low Sec systems -- maybe pyroxeres, too -- and give Low Sec a reason to exist beyond low end moons, piracy and FW.
Can't say it would be popular, probably a "hard sell", but it would generate some fighting for a strategic resource.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2399
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 20:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Word in the forums about comming resource changes have brought up an interesting idea to discuss: How would POS fuel & other markets be affected if icefields were moved out of HI SEC? Seems to me with the LONG Ice Harvestor cycles harvesting in NULL/LO is overly risky unless you are in deep SOV. Also WH's have no Ice fields would they quicky be taking a POS fuel hike hit due to thier dependance on transporting it in?
Better yet, what if all tech moons were moved out of null?
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Callduron
194
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 02:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Even just leaving them in highsec but setting them to deplete would probably triple the price of isotopes. Do other things, and it goes up from there.
People are overstating the effects. (Perhaps cynically).
More mining is done in nullsec than high sec. This is demonstrated by the high price of high sec ores relative to low and null sec ore. Scordite pays more than Arkonor partly because of bottlenecks but mostly because there are a ton of people in nullsec clearing grav sites and a lower proportion than anticipated of people in high sec mining Scordite.
People who are currently clearing grav sites will switch to ice once the isk/hour of ice products equalises with minerals. Or even a bit before considering the relative ease of mining ice as opposed to clearing grav sites.
We would also see a change in freight patterns if this change happened. Currently ice products are mostly mined in empire and shipped to nullsec. If this change happened it would make some economic sense to shift production from high to null and use locally produced ice and PI to make fuel blocks. As ice can't be compressed it would be uneconomic to export ice to jita for resale then import it back again in the form of fuel blocks. This would encourage the use of local ice so we might see more Amarr towers and capitals in Delve as Amarr ice would be a lot cheaper there.
A side effect of the change would be that the value of Arkonor and the other null ores would rise as less people mine it so we may see a much needed restoration of balance to the mineral basket. Similarly vast fleets of risk averse high sec miners would switch from ice mining to mineral mining. (And who knows, some dedicated ice miners might follow their quarry out to null!)
Would be a good change I think. |
Dave Stark
2706
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 03:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Callduron wrote:More mining is done in nullsec than high sec.
no, more mining is not done in null sec. this is stated as fact in the dev blogs.
sorry i didn't read the rest of your post, i assumed it would be as terrible and incorrect as the first line. |
|
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
478
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 04:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Word in the forums about comming resource changes have brought up an interesting idea to discuss: How would POS fuel & other markets be affected if icefields were moved out of HI SEC? Seems to me with the LONG Ice Harvestor cycles harvesting in NULL/LO is overly risky unless you are in deep SOV. Also WH's have no Ice fields would they quicky be taking a POS fuel hike hit due to thier dependance on transporting it in? Better yet, what if all tech moons were moved out of null?Mr Epeen
Then after a week tops they're all retowered by the alliances that currently own them, just now the towers are in losec. Exciting stuff |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1729
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 10:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:As for planets respawning... well, we will leave that up to the mice. Am I the only one that gets this? *laugh*
EDIT: Nope. Late to the party again it seems. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
580
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 11:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
Lets just hope the next expansion brings balance, resource distribution needs some tweaks. Risk vs Reward is broken in highsec. |
Masuka Taredi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 15:40:00 -
[64] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Aside from bots, those who inhabit null/low don't strike me as the "mine ice until they drop dead of boredom" types. Moving the fields plus a major bot ban by CCP would probably crash the economy in both null and high. Why would that be bad?
Exactly. The only reason fuel is the cost it is is due to bots mostly. The market needs shaking up. It will settle over time when those who ACTIVELY mine ice rather than bot get in on a new system. personally i want to see an end to static ANY belt. |
TravisWB
63
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 15:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
eh? The Skiff is a great low sec ice or ore miner. It is fast, has BS tank and is capable of taking out a BS rat, 2 BC rats with a couple of cruiser rats thrown in. All at once and all by itself using its drones.
The Skiff has fast mining module cycle times and in case nobody noticed, most exhumer mining is now NOT afk. Except for the Mackinaw.
And, most of low sec is still barely populated. Mostly all you will ever see there are bands of fail pirates looking to find miners or PI types.
You just wait them out at a pos or in a station. Most low sec pirates have the attention span typical of children.
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
923
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
WOW this is interesting...
Uppsy Daisy wrote:- New Ice Belt names have appeared in some data tables: Blue Ice Belt, White Glaze Belt, Smooth Glacial Mass Belt
- T2 Ice Harvester Cycle halved from 500 to 250 seconds, presumably they are doubling ice harvesting rates to balance the difficulty of finding an ice field via exploration.
Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon?
|
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami Moon Warriors
319
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:As for planets respawning... well, we will leave that up to the mice. Am I the only one that gets this? *laugh* EDIT: Nope. Late to the party again it seems.
Someone answered "42". They also understood =) "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url]-á for details. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
4520
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:56:00 -
[68] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:WOW this is interesting... Uppsy Daisy wrote:- New Ice Belt names have appeared in some data tables: Blue Ice Belt, White Glaze Belt, Smooth Glacial Mass Belt
- T2 Ice Harvester Cycle halved from 500 to 250 seconds, presumably they are doubling ice harvesting rates to balance the difficulty of finding an ice field via exploration.
Intriguing most indeed. There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
924
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 17:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:As for planets respawning... well, we will leave that up to the mice. Am I the only one that gets this? *laugh* EDIT: Nope. Late to the party again it seems. Someone answered "42". They also understood =) me Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon?
|
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:04:00 -
[70] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:WOW this is interesting... Uppsy Daisy wrote:- New Ice Belt names have appeared in some data tables: Blue Ice Belt, White Glaze Belt, Smooth Glacial Mass Belt
- T2 Ice Harvester Cycle halved from 500 to 250 seconds, presumably they are doubling ice harvesting rates to balance the difficulty of finding an ice field via exploration.
Darth, source?
My trade alt made a decent bundle selling ice products over the weekend, but I have a feeling that I got out of the market way too fast. If this stuff is lining up to be another null sec faucet, price are just going to go stupid, even with double the harvest rate.
I have had a couple POS's parked in a hangar in high sec for some time. Sounds like I should sell them now, before he market for high sec POS's crumbles.
|
|
Uppsy Daisy
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
364
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:39:00 -
[71] - Quote
Source is data-mined files from test server (by Sarmatiko).
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
924
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:WOW this is interesting... Uppsy Daisy wrote:- New Ice Belt names have appeared in some data tables: Blue Ice Belt, White Glaze Belt, Smooth Glacial Mass Belt
- T2 Ice Harvester Cycle halved from 500 to 250 seconds, presumably they are doubling ice harvesting rates to balance the difficulty of finding an ice field via exploration. Darth, source? My trade alt made a decent bundle selling ice products over the weekend, but I have a feeling that I got out of the market way too fast. If this stuff is lining up to be another null sec faucet, price are just going to go stupid, even with double the harvest rate. I have had a couple POS's parked in a hangar in high sec for some time. Sounds like I should sell them now, before he market for high sec POS's crumbles.
Source == quote=Uppsy Daisy claiming to see it in some data tables & Mynna claiming that an earlier test server build was void of ice belts
If I was running things though Instead of ICE leaving HI SEC though I'd make ring/comet exploration producing ice in HI SEC & goo in NULL ( should do both in lo IMHO ) dunno what I'd do with ring exploration in WH's though Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon?
|
Uppsy Daisy
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
364
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:44:00 -
[73] - Quote
I saw nothing in the data files, just posts on other forums from reliable sources that I am relaying here for the community.
Its all in my compendium |
Dave Stark
2782
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 18:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:WOW this is interesting... Uppsy Daisy wrote:- New Ice Belt names have appeared in some data tables: Blue Ice Belt, White Glaze Belt, Smooth Glacial Mass Belt
- T2 Ice Harvester Cycle halved from 500 to 250 seconds, presumably they are doubling ice harvesting rates to balance the difficulty of finding an ice field via exploration.
to be fair though, even double the isk/hour of ice is still less than ore. |
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Uppsy Daisy wrote: - T2 Ice Harvester Cycle halved from 500 to 250 seconds, presumably they are doubling ice harvesting rates to balance the difficulty of finding an ice field via exploration.
The difficulty of 10 people scanning 10 systems for a few minutes, then 100 people fleet warping on top of them to mine it dry over the next couple of hours?
Or the difficulty of half the afk ice mininers not bothering any more and current consumption levels requiring double the output per remaining miner? |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
304
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:35:00 -
[76] - Quote
I don't know. These ice mining changes make me go "Hrm....."
So does that mean you have to scan down ice belts now?
Will this added step actually cause ice miners to stop ice mining because they only did it in the first place because it was mindnumingly easy to do in turn causing ice prices o go through the roof in turn forcing POS owners out of business?
To me its like they want to put an extra step to just cause frustration for every party involved.
That said, if they made a special version of ice that had two times the yield and only found in exploration sites, then that would be reasonable for the parties that be.
Personally, I am going "meh" because it won't affect me one way or another. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
422
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
Callduron wrote:This is demonstrated by the high price of high sec ores relative to low and null sec ore. Scordite pays more than Arkonor partly because of bottlenecks but mostly because there are a ton of people in nullsec clearing grav sites and a lower proportion than anticipated of people in high sec mining Scordite.
As was already pointed out, the vast majority of mining is actually done in highsec.
The reason the prices are the way they are, with relatively cheap nullsec ores and relatively expensive highsec ores, is because highsec miners are mining ice instead of ore.
In nullsec, the easiest way to mine is doing hidden belts in an industry upgraded system. So the few that mine in nullsec do that and export the high ends. This keep high end prices relatively low.
In highsec, the easiest mining is ice because you never have to move. It is easiest to AFK and/or multi-box, and highsec ice belts are packed with miners. This has been keeping ice prices relatively low while low end minerals have stayed expensive since the drone alloy nerf. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1401
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:48:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Aside from bots, those who inhabit null/low don't strike me as the "mine ice until they drop dead of boredom" types. Moving the fields plus a major bot ban by CCP would probably crash the economy in both null and high. Why would that be bad? EVE runs on an expanding economy. Any lengthy in-game recession would at the very least severly stress the game and quite plausibly impact subscription numbers.
Moving ALL ice out of Hi into Lo or Nul would put too much of the game's economies in the hands of large blocs, who would then be in a position to really make demands. Maybe they would. Maybe they wouldn't - I'd like to think that the Nul-Bloc folks understand enlightened self-interest, but the possiblity alone would be destabilizing.
Not saying that it would be a bad thing if the balance of where ice spawns shifted a bit, or that the spawn locations migrated a bit like Cosmic Signatures do... But not a wholesale move. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Dave Stark
2789
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:50:00 -
[79] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Aside from bots, those who inhabit null/low don't strike me as the "mine ice until they drop dead of boredom" types. Moving the fields plus a major bot ban by CCP would probably crash the economy in both null and high. Why would that be bad? EVE runs on an expanding economy. Any lengthy in-game recession would at the very least severly stress the game and quite plausibly impact subscription numbers. Moving ALL ice out of Hi into Lo or Nul would put too much of the game's economies in the hands of large blocs, who would then be in a position to really make demands. Maybe they would. Maybe they wouldn't - I'd like to think that the Nul-Bloc folks understand enlightened self-interest, but the possiblity alone would be destabilizing. Not saying that it would be a bad thing if the balance of where ice spawns shifted a bit, or that the spawn locations migrated a bit like Cosmic Signatures do... But not a wholesale move.
you say that like there isn't already a resource in such a situation. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
498
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:58:00 -
[80] - Quote
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
My trade alt made a decent bundle selling ice products over the weekend, but I have a feeling that I got out of the market way too fast. If this stuff is lining up to be another null sec faucet, price are just going to go stupid, even with double the harvest rate.
Yes.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
|
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
498
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 20:59:00 -
[81] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:As for planets respawning... well, we will leave that up to the mice. Am I the only one that gets this? *laugh* EDIT: Nope. Late to the party again it seems.
The fjords were a nice touch.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
387
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 21:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:WOW this is interesting... Uppsy Daisy wrote:- New Ice Belt names have appeared in some data tables: Blue Ice Belt, White Glaze Belt, Smooth Glacial Mass Belt
- T2 Ice Harvester Cycle halved from 500 to 250 seconds, presumably they are doubling ice harvesting rates to balance the difficulty of finding an ice field via exploration. to be fair though, even double the isk/hour of ice is still less than ore.
Double gather rate and make ice field need to be scanned down and the revenu might skyrocket tho. Again as said before, I don't see the current null population as really interested in mining. Maybe a proce hike would change the mind of some but there is way too much ice produced in high by bot army/afk miners. You won't really be able to bot it if you have to scan the site first... |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1410
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 23:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:silens vesica wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Aside from bots, those who inhabit null/low don't strike me as the "mine ice until they drop dead of boredom" types. Moving the fields plus a major bot ban by CCP would probably crash the economy in both null and high. Why would that be bad? EVE runs on an expanding economy. Any lengthy in-game recession would at the very least severly stress the game and quite plausibly impact subscription numbers. Moving ALL ice out of Hi into Lo or Nul would put too much of the game's economies in the hands of large blocs, who would then be in a position to really make demands. Maybe they would. Maybe they wouldn't - I'd like to think that the Nul-Bloc folks understand enlightened self-interest, but the possiblity alone would be destabilizing. Not saying that it would be a bad thing if the balance of where ice spawns shifted a bit, or that the spawn locations migrated a bit like Cosmic Signatures do... But not a wholesale move. you say that like there isn't already a resource in such a situation. No - I say that like I don't want another resouce in that condition. My corp can run along fine without large quantities of Tech. Without large quantities of ice products, we'll have to move back to K-Space, and that would pretty much be the end of the corp - and we're a long, long way from being alone in that condition.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
1096
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:30:00 -
[84] - Quote
They have said for over a year now that they plan on moving ice to null exclusively. No one should be shocked when it happens, possibly with some form of... Exploration revamp...
Oh. Ooooooh.
|
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 03:53:00 -
[85] - Quote
silens vesica wrote: My corp can run along fine without large quantities of Tech. Without large quantities of ice products, we'll have to move back to K-Space, and that would pretty much be the end of the corp - and we're a long, long way from being alone in that condition.
CCP has a choice. If they want to make it tougher to live in w-space, then they go ahead with this change to make ice a bit more difficult to obtain. If they want to make it easier to live in w-space, then they can add some of these new ice belt grav sites, or whatever they are, to w-space. Either option is open. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
928
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 06:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
Xython wrote:They have said for over a year now that they plan on moving ice to null exclusively. No one should be shocked when it happens, possibly with some form of... Exploration revamp... Oh. Ooooooh.
Source... linky? Who is this mysterious 'they' you speak of that hath said 'plan on moving ice to null exclusively'? Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an "ex"-Goon?
|
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
1149
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 07:06:00 -
[87] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Word in the forums about comming resource changes have brought up an interesting idea to discuss: How would POS fuel & other markets be affected if icefields were moved out of HI SEC? Seems to me with the LONG Ice Harvestor cycles harvesting in NULL/LO is overly risky unless you are in deep SOV. Also WH's have no Ice fields would they quicky be taking a POS fuel hike hit due to thier dependance on transporting it in?
stop speculating and wait , you will only make peoiple very dissapointed when CCP finally decides to release the relevant info nwith all these speculations
i do ot think it will be that much different then what it is now I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Johno R
The Scope Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 07:20:00 -
[88] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:MrDiao wrote:CCP even believes that tripling the profit of mining can attract more players coming into the badly designed stupid gameplay without losing subs eventually. who wouldn't want 100m/hour for doing a max of 5 clicks every 2 mins. ??? Warp to ice field, target chunk of ice, activate lasorz. Dock. I count 4
:P but seriously, why not just randomly include ice chunks in regular asteroid fields all over the galaxy? Remove the dedicated ice fields, no special module required to find it, stops bots maybe? Or at least slow them down. Puts more emphasis of mining fleets/teamwork |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
725
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 08:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
"speculation"
The world might end this year.
The world as we know it might end this year to become peace love and rock&roll.
The life we're used to is about to change in drastic ways we will or not easily adapt to it and maybe blow up everything.
If my grand mother had balls she would be my grand father.
The sun will turn in to red giant soon.
Tomorrow it will rain.
Eve will die soon.
"Cloud" system might be successful soon.
There will be a grand tsunami soon.
*removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
174
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:It would be a pretty sad state of affairs if it cost a billion a month or more to fuel a basic POS, something which people should aspire to do, because all the ice was moved into null.
But yes, from personal experience, nullsec mining is rarely done except for when surrounded by a large buffer of blues. These minerals and ice almost all go towards the local POS towers.
That would be great in fact. Too many POSs already around.
ICe mining could very well be moved to unknown space :) |
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
174
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
Johno R wrote:Dave Stark wrote:MrDiao wrote:CCP even believes that tripling the profit of mining can attract more players coming into the badly designed stupid gameplay without losing subs eventually. who wouldn't want 100m/hour for doing a max of 5 clicks every 2 mins. ??? Warp to ice field, target chunk of ice, activate lasorz. Dock. I count 4 :P but seriously, why not just randomly include ice chunks in regular asteroid fields all over the galaxy? Remove the dedicated ice fields, no special module required to find it, stops bots maybe? Or at least slow them down. Puts more emphasis of mining fleets/teamwork
To warp to ice field you need 2 click.. one to select the field.. other to select warp to command |
Dave Stark
2810
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:20:00 -
[92] - Quote
Johno R wrote:Dave Stark wrote:MrDiao wrote:CCP even believes that tripling the profit of mining can attract more players coming into the badly designed stupid gameplay without losing subs eventually. who wouldn't want 100m/hour for doing a max of 5 clicks every 2 mins. ??? Warp to ice field, target chunk of ice, activate lasorz. Dock. I count 4 :P but seriously, why not just randomly include ice chunks in regular asteroid fields all over the galaxy? Remove the dedicated ice fields, no special module required to find it, stops bots maybe? Or at least slow them down. Puts more emphasis of mining fleets/teamwork
except, that's not even close to 100m an hour. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8818
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 10:55:00 -
[93] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Word in the forums about comming resource changes have brought up an interesting idea to discuss: How would POS fuel & other markets be affected if icefields were moved out of HI SEC? Seems to me with the LONG Ice Harvestor cycles harvesting in NULL/LO is overly risky unless you are in deep SOV. Also WH's have no Ice fields would they quicky be taking a POS fuel hike hit due to thier dependance on transporting it in? Better yet, what if all tech moons were moved out of null?Mr Epeen
Wouldn't really change anything. Malcanis' Law:-á "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
|
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
305
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 11:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:My corp can run along fine without large quantities of Tech. Without large quantities of ice products, we'll have to move back to K-Space, and that would pretty much be the end of the corp - and we're a long, long way from being alone in that condition.
I think that is the crux of this situation. If ice mining because harder to do and therefore prices rise and availability drops, the people who are affected the most are POS owners.
Corps that rely on easily accessible or cheap ice products would find their position untenable.
Now we don't know if ice mining is going to be harder to do. It could be that you undock, throw out some probes, and find some nice ice belts in less than 5 minutes and then you'll have your supply of ice for the day to mine.
If it's where you have to spend more than 15 minutes scanning or have to jump to multiple systems to find ice, I could see people giving up the profession as regular mining would be easier.
If that happens then corps with a POS will be proverbially pooped on and have to give up their POS as most of them will be running unprofitably.
I just would like to think CCP has thought this through or we might be facing a threadnaught of angry POS owners of massive proportions. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Phoenix Bibbs
Red Galaxy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 21:36:00 -
[95] - Quote
Xython wrote:They have said for over a year now that they plan on moving ice to null exclusively. No one should be shocked when it happens, possibly with some form of... Exploration revamp... Oh. Ooooooh.
I can taste the tears now. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
93
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 22:05:00 -
[96] - Quote
The following quotes from Soloman and Soundwave are pretty telling on the future of ice.
Quote: CCP Soundwave - GÇ£WeGÇÖre going to be tinkering around with minerals. Personally IGÇÖd like to see some changes to ice, for example. ThereGÇÖs a lot of interesting opportunities there. I think ice is very underplayed as a very tactical resource. Like it should essentially be the oil of Eve Online... It would be good if it was something that people thought about instead of something you get from endless mining barges in Empire that may or may not be piloted by people.GÇ¥
CCP Solomon - GÇ£One of the key drivers for this work weGÇÖre doing, and this come a lot from the CSM Summit, is people are looking for resource contention and acquisition to involve more people. They were concerned that it was too static and it was in the hands of the few. And rather -- we donGÇÖt necessarily want to stop that -- but rather encourage large-scale organizers to lobby more people in terms of gathering and exploiting these resources and working the space. So just systems have more of a feeling that they are busy and thereGÇÖs activity going on there. ThatGÇÖs very much been a driver when weGÇÖve been looking at this resource work and kind of the high-level goals we want to hit.GÇ¥
Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
|
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
1097
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 23:31:00 -
[97] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Xython wrote:They have said for over a year now that they plan on moving ice to null exclusively. No one should be shocked when it happens, possibly with some form of... Exploration revamp... Oh. Ooooooh. Source... linky? Who is this mysterious 'they' you speak of that hath said ' plan on moving ice to null exclusively'?
I believe it was CCP Soundwave, around last year's Fanfest. They have been fairly open about this, but I still expect people running 27 ice miner bot accounts at a time to be surprised when they suddenly can't do that anymore. |
The Greenmachine Greenmachine
Green's Bicycle Shop
11
|
Posted - 2013.04.24 23:50:00 -
[98] - Quote
I already bought all the ice |
turmajin
The Scope Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 00:00:00 -
[99] - Quote
Last year CCP Soubdwave ect also where talking about RING MINING as an option to end the TECH monopoly,of a few alliances.We all know that it isnt going to happen in the forseeable future.CCP have also talked about modular POSes but again its not happening in the foreseeable future.ICE harvesting will stay as it is mostly,and still be in high sec,though the fields could deplete ,just as the ore fields do.If anything is going to happen iconcerning ICE its most probibly that option,and just maybe the introduction of higher yei;ding ice types from COMETS or wharever that you will have to scan down.But to really make it worthwhile for players perhaps COMETS or RING MINING (when it happrens ??)could also yeild ALLOYS. as well as the ore /ICE |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
93
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 00:28:00 -
[100] - Quote
We heard a lot of similar "they can't do it it'd destroy the market" arguments when discussion went around about removing drone poo.
Well, drone poo is gone, the economy is still here. Same thing will happen when CCP wipes out Ice from highsec. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
|
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
848
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 00:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
turmajin wrote:Last year CCP Soubdwave ect also where talking about RING MINING as an option to end the TECH monopoly,of a few alliances.We all know that it isnt going to happen in the forseeable future.CCP have also talked about modular POSes but again its not happening in the foreseeable future.ICE harvesting will stay as it is mostly,and still be in high sec,though the fields could deplete ,just as the ore fields do.If anything is going to happen iconcerning ICE its most probibly that option,and just maybe the introduction of higher yei;ding ice types from COMETS or wharever that you will have to scan down.But to really make it worthwhile for players perhaps COMETS or RING MINING (when it happrens ??)could also yeild ALLOYS. as well as the ore /ICE
Do you have some kind of capslock disability? Reading the EVEO forums is like huffing gas or sniffing glue. Sure it's funny and you get high, but you pay a terrible, terrible price in the long run. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
517
|
Posted - 2013.04.25 00:49:00 -
[102] - Quote
turmajin wrote:Last year CCP Soubdwave ect also where talking about RING MINING as an option to end the TECH monopoly,of a few alliances.We all know that it isnt going to happen in the forseeable future.CCP have also talked about modular POSes but again its not happening in the foreseeable future.ICE harvesting will stay as it is mostly,and still be in high sec,though the fields could deplete ,just as the ore fields do.If anything is going to happen iconcerning ICE its most probibly that option,and just maybe the introduction of higher yei;ding ice types from COMETS or wharever that you will have to scan down.But to really make it worthwhile for players perhaps COMETS or RING MINING (when it happrens ??)could also yeild ALLOYS. as well as the ore /ICE
The most likely change is the "Depletion" option, but I'd also like to see at least some ice sourced into the game as another form of grav site.
Remove asteroid, insert iceberg. Scan, rinse, and repeat.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
936
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:34:00 -
[103] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:turmajin wrote:Last year CCP Soubdwave ect also where talking about RING MINING as an option to end the TECH monopoly,of a few alliances.We all know that it isnt going to happen in the forseeable future.CCP have also talked about modular POSes but again its not happening in the foreseeable future.ICE harvesting will stay as it is mostly,and still be in high sec,though the fields could deplete ,just as the ore fields do.If anything is going to happen iconcerning ICE its most probibly that option,and just maybe the introduction of higher yei;ding ice types from COMETS or wharever that you will have to scan down.But to really make it worthwhile for players perhaps COMETS or RING MINING (when it happrens ??)could also yeild ALLOYS. as well as the ore /ICE The most likely change is the "Depletion" option, but I'd also like to see at least some ice sourced into the game as another form of grav site. Remove asteroid, insert iceberg. Scan, rinse, and repeat.
yep ICE DEPLETES here goes the market in Jita An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
525
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:39:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ka-ching.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
903
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:47:00 -
[105] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Ice is the life-blood of EvE. I'm pretty sure if it were removed from highsec it would have disastrous consequences. Yeah, people in nullsec might have to mine ice! Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1448
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:48:00 -
[106] - Quote
When an ice spot depletes, a new one spawns. Just means you have to move more around instead of afk'ing all day. Mining Overhaul Nothing changed since 2008. |
Droodid
Antec Enterprises
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:48:00 -
[107] - Quote
If someone could buy the massive stockpile of Oxy I bought last speculation then forgot to sell that'd be great. Thanks. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
925
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:49:00 -
[108] - Quote
Droodid wrote:If someone could buy the massive stockpile of Oxy I bought last speculation then forgot to sell that'd be great. Thanks.
that way you can be oxy clean? Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
936
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:52:00 -
[109] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:When an ice spot depletes, a new one spawns. Just means you have to move more around instead of afk'ing all day.
It takes 4 hours until respawn! An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13836
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Abrazzar wrote:When an ice spot depletes, a new one spawns. Just means you have to move more around instead of afk'ing all day. It takes 4 hours until respawn! GǪso nerf barge warp speed and agility so it takes about 3-+ hours to get there.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á |
|
Dave Stark
2865
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:56:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tippia wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Abrazzar wrote:When an ice spot depletes, a new one spawns. Just means you have to move more around instead of afk'ing all day. It takes 4 hours until respawn! GǪso nerf barge warp speed and agility so it takes about 3-+ hours to get there.
*looks at the size of an ice belt* 4hrs, completely insignificant. |
Haulie Berry
515
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 18:57:00 -
[112] - Quote
OH LAWDY THE SKY IS FALLING! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1774
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:01:00 -
[113] - Quote
The 4 hour respawn is an issue. If I got 1 hour to kill right now can hop in a barge and get some ice. In the new system my one hour could easily fall into that 4 hour cool-down. Saying " go elsewhere" is of little help as I only got an hour.
Now if the average ice belt takes days to get mined out, this issue is small as there will only be a small chance the four hour respawn happens at the same time as my play time. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Dave Stark
2865
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 19:03:00 -
[114] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The 4 hour respawn is an issue. If I got 1 hour to kill right now can hop in a barge and get some ice. In the new system my one hour could easily fall into that 4 hour cool-down. Saying " go elsewhere" is of little help as I only got an hour.
Now if the average ice belt takes days to get mined out, this issue is small as there will only be a small chance the four hour respawn happens at the same time as my play time.
unless they announce a change in ice belts (smaller roids, less of them, or such), which they haven't done, then you're right the chance of being online during the 4hr period is small. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
526
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:19:00 -
[115] - Quote
Given that there was also mention of ice mining cycles being doubled up, the actual size of spawning ice fields (belts?) may actually be smaller than they are now.
Given how fast some fleets can already mine, the 4 hour respawn issue may "hurt" some mining ambitions.... but then again, CCP wants people to fight over these resources, so YMMV.
Onoes, is that a logi in your mining fleet ?
Some folks might see the value in a logi when the double speed cycle kicks in.
Or not.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Dave Stark
2867
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:21:00 -
[116] - Quote
reading the dev blog, they are assuming the anoms are cleared 5 times a day, that's 20 hours of "downtime" leaving 4 hours of mining, for 5 anoms. that's 40 mins per anom.
if we knew what size fleets they are expecting in these belts, we'd be able to calculate the size of the anoms. however we're lacking 2 bits of information in a 3 piece of information equation so we'll have to wait and see. |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT Joint Venture Conglomerate
526
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:29:00 -
[117] - Quote
IIRC, these ice anomalies will only spawn in systems where static belts currently exist.
So, a bit of time saved not having to check each and every system -- and zero time spent moving fleets around.
Fun times.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Dave Stark
2867
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:33:00 -
[118] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:IIRC, these ice anomalies will only spawn in systems where static belts currently exist.
So, a bit of time saved not having to check each and every system -- and zero time spent moving fleets around.
Fun times.
already spotted 2 systems within 2 jumps of each other with a combined belts. good times. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
2659
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:33:00 -
[119] - Quote
People are going to clamor for special "ice probes" because all those other sigs will make them have to work.
Gotta keep up that global laziness competition you know. |
Dave Stark
2867
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 20:35:00 -
[120] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:People are going to clamor for special "ice probes" because all those other sigs will make them have to work.
Gotta keep up that global laziness competition you know.
as far as i can tell, you don't have to probe them. just use that new discovery scanner thing and then warp to it. |
|
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
936
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 21:02:00 -
[121] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:People are going to clamor for special "ice probes" because all those other sigs will make them have to work.
Gotta keep up that global laziness competition you know. as far as i can tell, you don't have to probe them. just use that new discovery scanner thing and then warp to it.
huh? An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3288
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 21:50:00 -
[122] - Quote
Use on-board system scanner to discover all anomalies. Some of those anomalies will be ice fields. Use funky new circular context menu to select "warp to" and now you are at the ice field!
Even better, you don't have to click the button to make the system scanner go, since you have already toggled the setting to keep it running all the time.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1778
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:13:00 -
[123] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:The 4 hour respawn is an issue. If I got 1 hour to kill right now can hop in a barge and get some ice. In the new system my one hour could easily fall into that 4 hour cool-down. Saying " go elsewhere" is of little help as I only got an hour.
Now if the average ice belt takes days to get mined out, this issue is small as there will only be a small chance the four hour respawn happens at the same time as my play time. unless they announce a change in ice belts (smaller roids, less of them, or such), which they haven't done, then you're right the chance of being online during the 4hr period is small. It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.
I propose ice locust fleets. The fleet has a "cycle" of solar systems it harvests. It goes to one, clears it, then the next, and so on. The loop is big enough that by the time you get back to the first the 4 hour timer has expired. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
937
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:20:00 -
[124] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Use on-board system scanner to discover all anomalies. Some of those anomalies will be ice fields. Use funky new circular context menu to select "warp to" and now you are at the ice field! Even better, you don't have to click the button to make the system scanner go, since you have already toggled the setting to keep it running all the time.
Guess I missed that part... I thought the insta non-probe scanning was a DEV hack because Soundwave is so bad at it
So these new ICEBELTS are anoms that DO NOT NEED PROBES TO BE SCANNED DOWN? \/ An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Dave Stark
2872
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:23:00 -
[125] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:The 4 hour respawn is an issue. If I got 1 hour to kill right now can hop in a barge and get some ice. In the new system my one hour could easily fall into that 4 hour cool-down. Saying " go elsewhere" is of little help as I only got an hour.
Now if the average ice belt takes days to get mined out, this issue is small as there will only be a small chance the four hour respawn happens at the same time as my play time. unless they announce a change in ice belts (smaller roids, less of them, or such), which they haven't done, then you're right the chance of being online during the 4hr period is small. It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less. I propose ice locust fleets. The fleet has a "cycle" of solar systems it harvests. It goes to one, clears it, then the next, and so on. The loop is big enough that by the time you get back to the first the 4 hour timer has expired.
2 systems, 2 jumps apart. 5 ice anoms between. |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
111
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:24:00 -
[126] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote: Maybe add battleship rats to ice belts as well. I can see a new profession forming, merc logistics that would rep anyone they had on their books as having paid a monthly "protection" fee when they came under attack from the NPCs.
Hmmm, On my first account about 4 years ago I was mining ice in Providence with fleet with CVA protection in the ice belt.
NPC would spawn and we would get word to dock up as hostiles were heading that way. I was out warping into the belt at 0 on the warp in the warping to the other end of the belt where I had my ice jettisoned while under NPC fire. Not much of a threat really. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1361
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:24:00 -
[127] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Guess I missed that part... I thought the insta non-probe scanning was a DEV hack because Soundwave is so bad at it So these new ICEBELTS are anoms that DO NOT NEED PROBES TO BE SCANNED DOWN? \ /
They mentioned later in the devblogs that ice/regular belts no longer need to be probed, and will show up similar to 'anomalies' (i.e. Not rated complexes) by using the ships onboard scanner.
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1778
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:30:00 -
[128] - Quote
Xolve wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Guess I missed that part... I thought the insta non-probe scanning was a DEV hack because Soundwave is so bad at it So these new ICEBELTS are anoms that DO NOT NEED PROBES TO BE SCANNED DOWN? \ / They mentioned later in the devblogs that ice/regular belts no longer need to be probed, and will show up similar to 'anomalies' (i.e. Not rated complexes) by using the ships onboard scanner. Apparently ALL grav sites are going to become anomalies. I assume even the ones in W-space. No more safety by D-scanning for probes. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Loan--Wolf
Ace's And 8's
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:50:00 -
[129] - Quote
grave will be anoms in wh space is this confirmed ?
and does that mean they will spawn more then like sleeper sights ?
also will they spawn sleepers more ?
this is interesting
|
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less.
Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much.
Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system.
But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes?
That's not a very fun way to spend your day. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
|
Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
494
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:05:00 -
[131] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less. Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much. Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system. But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes? That's not a very fun way to spend your day.
This adds competition and a dynamic aspect to who gets to mine the ice belts, something mining sorely needs. |
Dave Stark
2872
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:06:00 -
[132] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less. Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much. Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system. But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes? That's not a very fun way to spend your day.
4 hours starts as soon as the last asteroid is popped. |
Dave Stark
2872
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:08:00 -
[133] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less. Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much. Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system. But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes? That's not a very fun way to spend your day. This adds competition and a dynamic aspect to who gets to mine the ice belts, something mining sorely needs.
who gets to mine the belts is whoever warps to it. nothing changes. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:15:00 -
[134] - Quote
Nex apparatu5 wrote:This adds competition and a dynamic aspect to who gets to mine the ice belts, something mining sorely needs.
Competition? How are you supposed to compete when you don't know when the timers are? Say some guy comes in 30 minutes after downtime and mines out the belt. And then I log in two hour later. I don't see a belt. Does that mean I should wait 1 hour or two?
It's not competition, its just randomly picks a winer for every 4 hours for whenever you happen to log in. With an income so unreliable, people will go back to asteroid mining.
Madness. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
438
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:23:00 -
[135] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Nex apparatu5 wrote:This adds competition and a dynamic aspect to who gets to mine the ice belts, something mining sorely needs. Competition? How are you supposed to compete when you don't know when the timers are? Say some guy comes in 30 minutes after downtime and mines out the belt. And then I log in two hour later. I don't see a belt. Does that mean I should wait 1 hour or two? It's not competition, its just randomly picks a winer for every 4 hours for whenever you happen to log in. With an income so unreliable, people will go back to asteroid mining. Madness.
You mean you might actually have to go look for something to mine, instead of just parking yourself in an unlimited belt to mine afk for hours on end?
Truly, this is madness |
Heinel Coventina
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:25:00 -
[136] - Quote
Will we get Ice Harvesters made for the Venture with the change? Or would it not be feasible? |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:31:00 -
[137] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:You mean you might actually have to go look for something to mine, instead of just parking yourself in an unlimited belt to mine afk for hours on end? Truly, this is madness
It might, but I enjoy this style of gameplay and pay money for it.
I posted this thread about why I enjoy ice mining:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228866&find=unread
My point was, that if I can't enjoy a relaxing environment while doing what I enjoy then I might as well play other games. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
938
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 23:44:00 -
[138] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:It seems the belts will be small. CCP mentioned that even if all were mined out 5 times a day (48 minutes of mining followed by 4 hours of waiting, 5 times a day) there would be sufficient ice for 80% of the games need, just from high sec. This implies a small belt that a reasonable swarm of miners can clear in an hour or less. Wait what? That's still 20% less than 100% which means ice prices will go up by at least that much. Secondly, if belts are mined out less than an hour that means 3 hours of downtime. Which even with double the mining rate means that 2 hours no longer being utilized compared to the old system. But the whole idea of downtime is what nags me. What if I log on after the 2nd hour? I am suppose to spin ships until another anomaly appears? And speaking of that, how in the hell do I know if I have to wait 3 hours or 10 minutes? That's not a very fun way to spend your day. 4 hours starts as soon as the last asteroid is popped.
lol N.O. WILL HAVE A FIELD DAY WITH THAT!!! BUMP THE LAST PILOTS TRYING TO GET THE LAST ICE NUGGET SO NOONE GETS THE RESPAWNS An' then [email protected], he come scramblin outta theTerminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system'scrashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children' |
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 00:01:00 -
[139] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:You mean you might actually have to go look for something to mine, instead of just parking yourself in an unlimited belt to mine afk for hours on end? Truly, this is madness It might, but I enjoy this style of gameplay and pay money for it. I posted this thread about why I enjoy ice mining: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228866&find=unreadMy point was, that if I can't enjoy a relaxing environment while doing what I enjoy then I might as well play other games. Think of it like this, what if CCP removed ganking from the game? Wouldn't you be pissed that CCP removed something you enjoyed?
It's going to be even worse than you imagine, since all ice mining cycles are being halved. An organized group will be clearing out ice belts in minutes.
But that is exactly what the goon lead designer said he wanted. He said he wanted ice to be a conflict driver. He wants the strong (read as the large cartels) preying on the weak (read as solo causal players).
You can bet on the fact that the null sec cartels are already organizing mining groups that will clear out all the belts in a high sec region, and start controlling the supply of ice to anyone needing it. Yeah, I am talking about interdicting the supply, not by blowing boats up, but by out-mining everyone.
It will be simple enough. They will have their alt's in 100 MN FSI's bump any non-allied mining boat off the ice belt, leaving the allied miners in the belts to gather in the resources. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
587
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 00:11:00 -
[140] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:You mean you might actually have to go look for something to mine, instead of just parking yourself in an unlimited belt to mine afk for hours on end? Truly, this is madness It might, but I enjoy this style of gameplay and pay money for it. I posted this thread about why I enjoy ice mining: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=228866&find=unreadMy point was, that if I can't enjoy a relaxing environment while doing what I enjoy then I might as well play other games. Think of it like this, what if CCP removed ganking from the game? Wouldn't you be pissed that CCP removed something you enjoyed?
The thing is, there is nothing wrong with ganking, but the same can't be said for highsec industry. This change was long overdue, highsec risk vs reward has broken.
Also, you're not entitled to anything just because you pay money. Don't like the changes, go play some themepark game that suits you. |
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Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 00:22:00 -
[141] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:The thing is, there is nothing wrong with ganking, but the same can't be said for highsec industry. This change was long overdue, highsec risk vs reward has broken.
Also, you're not entitled to anything just because you pay money. Don't like the changes, go play some themepark game that suits you.
So hi-sec industry makes you mad?
Of course I am not entitled, but you'd be crying tears if CCP trammelized the game.
I am just voicing my concerns in public so that it is known. Hell for all I know, the ice belts won't be mined out in an extreme fashion.
If my words bother you that much you should just block me.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Agent Trask
New Order Logistics CODE.
153
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 00:51:00 -
[142] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Guess I missed that part... I thought the insta non-probe scanning was a DEV hack because Soundwave is so bad at it So these new ICEBELTS are anoms that DO NOT NEED PROBES TO BE SCANNED DOWN? \ /
But gankers will be using combat probes and scout alts to warp directly to you while you mine.
Hope this helps, have a nice day.
Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.
www.minerbumping.com |
Agent Trask
New Order Logistics CODE.
153
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 00:52:00 -
[143] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:
4 hours starts as soon as the last asteroid is popped.
And as Darth All Caps has noted, Miner bumping can prevent that last ice-teroid from popping! Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.
www.minerbumping.com |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
842
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:00:00 -
[144] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Hell for all I know, the ice belts won't be mined out in an extreme fashion. Given what we know at the moment and assuming each system has roughly the same amount of ice miners with the same average cycle time, and that most, if not all, ice mining is done in high-sec, we can assume that each ice anom will be mined out in about 1.6 hours.
I expect some competition in the ice belts. CCP has no sense of humour. |
stoicfaux
2624
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 02:05:00 -
[145] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: The thing is, there is nothing wrong with ganking, but the same can't be said for highsec industry. This change was long overdue, highsec risk vs reward has broken.
The "risk vs reward" angle is just wrong. The reason high-sec is so popular is because it is so profitable. If you want to get people out of high-sec, you just need to make high-sec less appealing from a profit standpoint (or make low and null much more profitable.)
Of course, if low/null is more profitable, then people will have something worth defending, which means less ganking and more fighting...
Odyssey's resource reallocation might become a huge nerf to ganking. Enjoy it while you can.
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