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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Transmaritanus
Sinister Elite Black Legion.
72
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 04:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
So for those in FW, I'm sure you've noticed the farmers. Stabbed, cloaked ships that orbit buttons that add no content other than running at anything that shows up within 1AU on Dscan.
Just as a regular example, here's what's wrong with the system as it is now : [IMG]Quadrouble Stabs FTW[/IMG]
The variation is 3 stabs and a cloak on a T1 frigate, usually an atron due to the slot layout (guns and spare highslot for cloak with 3 lows for stabs)
This play style adds no content to the game. They are avoiding PvP as well as PvE, as once the ONE rat in the plex is dead they literally sit and just run down their timer.
For those of you who suck at this game, you'll probably try to say that this argument is due to "OMG HE JUST WANTS TO KILL EASY PLAYERS." To those, a cursory glance at my kill board shows I have developed a excellent system in killing these farmers. My objective here is irrelevant, other than the ending of this farming.
Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking.
Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16106
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 04:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now?
They farm plexes. So what? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3199
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 05:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Your bio wrote:All PvP in Eve is consensual. You consent when you log in.
Fixed. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2897
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 05:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Didn't stop him from getting blown up, did it?
I see no problem here.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Hiyora Akachi
UNITAS. Silent Infinity
198
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 06:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Your bio wrote:All PvP in Eve is consensual. You consent when you log in. Fixed.
Consensual EvE'ing. Sounds kinky. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
433
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what?
Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16108
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. No, only to posts that purport to GÇ£solveGÇ¥ some kind of problem without explaining what the actual problem is or why it needs to be solved.
Quote:Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever. If you say soGǪ But I don't think anyone who has actually played the game will agree with you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. No, only to posts that purport to GǣsolveGǥ some kind of problem without explaining what the actual problem is or why it needs to be solved. Quote:Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever. If you say soGǪ But I don't think anyone who has actually played the game will agree with you.
the issue he has, in case you really didn't get it, is with FW-Farmers that fit to avoid any PvP.
as FW seems to be designed as PvP and not PvE content, I kinda see the issue he has. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16108
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
embrel wrote:the issue he has, in case you really didn't get it, is with FW-Farmers that fit to avoid any PvP.
as FW seems to be designed as PvP and not PvE content, I kinda see the issue he has. Yes, I got that, but that's just him being annoyed that people aren't getting into fights with him, not a design problem. FW is designed to be content you compete. If someone has figured out a way to compete over it without shooting people, then that's not really a problem unless there is no way to compete backGǪ
GǪbut the OP doesn't mention any such problem GÇö only his annoyance that the competition isn't competing the way he wants them to. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3664
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
If he gets them anyway, the solution seems to be to spread the information so others get the farmers too. |
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Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 09:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
I agree with Tippia. He sacrificed all his lows on stabs, if you want to compete with that guy, fit all your mids with scramblers. Problem solved! |
Generals4
1965
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Didn't stop him from getting blown up, did it? I see no problem here. Mr Epeen
He made a rookie mistake, he forgot his cloaking device. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Fr00b Snap
Darkcore Corporation
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Easy solution would be that if you leave plex timer resets after 15 or so seconds, to protect against DC. |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
290
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Of course it's broken. Plex farming is totally risk averse and completely inconsistent with everything else in lowsec. Good solution to cloaking but doesn't fix the problem.
What is your system for killing them? Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
237
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
''We can not ban/remove warp core stabs.'' Why not? I'd gladly see warp stabs removed from the game.
As for cloaking, I'd like to see a probe method that can decloak a ship on solar map alongside an on grid area effect field that decloaks ships. I am aware of the hard code issue around cloaks but if wishes were horses. |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
290
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:''We can not ban/remove warp core stabs.'' Why not? I'd gladly see warp stabs removed from the game.
They have their place. Travel fits, noctis, scout ship, um... I'm sure there are more. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Kahetha
Sky Boxers Northern Associates.
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nonono, you see, this is working as intended; FW is/was intended as an easy access gateway to PVP for newer players, so teaching them that sometimes someone gets away, is just part of life!
"Pirates" and "PVPers" in EVE (and other games) are under the impression that is it their right to kill other players. Not because the victim was doing something in particular or because the victim was in a particular place, but because the victim exists. Therefore, when the "pirates" or "PVPers" 'right' to killing is violated (when someone gets away), they feel "robbed" of a kill, because in their world view, once a victim is in sight that player is rightfully his to kill and has no right to get away.
But of course the reality of things is that when someone tries to kill you, or you know you are going into a situation where people will be trying to kill you, you will try and take actions to prevent that. For example "pirates" and "PVPers" will fit resist mods and extenders/plates/rep mods and perhaps make use of logi ships for precisely that reason! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2589
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever.
Ahhhh, that's so sweet, Tippia has another virtual slave to follow her around like a puppy nipping at her heels. That tends to happen when tip spanks a poster long enough, they stop being able to argue and can do nothing more than mount a weak personal attack.
i mean, it's not like this forum has an ignore function that could magically make Tippia go away for anyone who doesn't like Tippia.....
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Prince Kobol
874
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:So for those in FW, I'm sure you've noticed the farmers. Stabbed, cloaked ships that orbit buttons that add no content other than running at anything that shows up within 1AU on Dscan. Just as a regular example, here's what's wrong with the system as it is now : [IMG]Quadrouble Stabs FTW[/IMG]The variation is 3 stabs and a cloak on a T1 frigate, usually an atron due to the slot layout (guns and spare highslot for cloak with 3 lows for stabs) This play style adds no content to the game. They are avoiding PvP as well as PvE, as once the ONE rat in the plex is dead they literally sit and just run down their timer. For those of you who suck at this game, you'll probably try to say that this argument is due to "OMG HE JUST WANTS TO KILL EASY PLAYERS." To those, a cursory glance at my kill board shows I have developed a excellent system in killing these farmers. My objective here is irrelevant, other than the ending of this farming. Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking. Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now.
How about a system where when YOU land on grid all opposing player suffer a full system shut down so they are unable to do anything?
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2606
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
So by merely showing up on grid, you scare the guy away and win the plex.
Congratulations, you won the encounter without firing a shot AND stopped him from making his plex money.
How is this broken? You won, he lost.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? the problem is that it's the best way to make isk and grind systems (not that anyone cares about grinding systems) in FW, a system that's intended to encourage solo or small-scale pvp. because the best way for plexers to operate is to make unfun and discourage fights any way they can, the way the system is working right now is robbing both the plexers and any other potential participants of the actual intended gameplay.
yeah, i say robbing. while cloaky/stabby alts warping away is gameplay and is pvp, it's really, really ****** and boring the way it is right now. it's making for a pretty poor game. i believe the complex system is meant to facilitate actual fights between players and that's not something that generally happens. the system is not meeting the goals of the redesign. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2607
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? the problem is that it's the best way to make isk and grind systems (not that anyone cares about grinding systems) in FW, a system that's intended to encourage solo or small-scale pvp. because the best way for plexers to operate is to make unfun and discourage fights any way they can, the way the system is working right now is robbing both the plexers and any other potential participants of the actual intended gameplay. yeah, i say robbing. while cloaky/stabby alts warping away is gameplay and is pvp, it's really, really ****** and boring the way it is right now. it's making for a pretty poor game. i believe the complex system is meant to facilitate actual fights between players and that's not something that generally happens. the system is not meeting the goals of the redesign.
So really what CCP needs to do is make people sign a waiver saying that they intend to PVP with other pilots when they enter a FW plex, right?
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Adson Wessiri
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? the problem is that it's the best way to make isk and grind systems (not that anyone cares about grinding systems) in FW, a system that's intended to encourage solo or small-scale pvp. because the best way for plexers to operate is to make unfun and discourage fights any way they can, the way the system is working right now is robbing both the plexers and any other potential participants of the actual intended gameplay. yeah, i say robbing. while cloaky/stabby alts warping away is gameplay and is pvp, it's really, really ****** and boring the way it is right now. it's making for a pretty poor game. i believe the complex system is meant to facilitate actual fights between players and that's not something that generally happens. the system is not meeting the goals of the redesign.
FW isn't necessarily about you getting kills. Players are competing over an objective. In the scenario presented the player in the cloaked ship lost the encounter because they lost control over or failed to take the plex. It's no less legitimate than if the player had been killed. You can encourage fights all you want but that doesn't mean someone can't devise a strategy to get around it and that is a completely legitimate way to play.
In this case you need to earn that kill instead of crying for CCP to change the game mechanics. If the player gets away so be it. You may now take the plex so it's not like you didn't gain anything. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Adson Wessiri wrote: FW isn't necessarily about you getting kills. Players are competing over an objective. In the scenario presented the player in the cloaked ship lost the encounter because they lost control over or failed to take the plex. It's no less legitimate than if the player had been killed. You can encourage fights all you want but that doesn't mean someone can't devise a strategy to get around it and that is a completely legitimate way to play.
In this case you need to earn that kill instead of crying for CCP to change the game mechanics. If the player gets away so be it. You may now take the plex so it's not like you didn't gain anything.
one goal of the fw mechanic redesigns were to encourage fights over plexes and fw is failing at that. it needs another look at if it's to achieve its goal. |
Zeraen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yeah I don't see anything wrong here. The way I see it is that the plexes are objectives and subterfuge is a legitimate option to capture the objectives. The best thing about Eve is that there is no way to fit a ship so that you counter everything perfectly. You could fit a ship to counter these "spies" but then you would be gimped if you had to fight anything else. It's all about trade offs and decisions. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
you can look at the previous fw plexing redesigns which were centred around nerfing solo no-fight frigate lp farming. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kahetha wrote:Nonono, you see, this is working as intended; FW is/was intended as an easy access gateway to PVP for newer players, so teaching them that sometimes someone gets away, is just part of life!
in this case it's a pity that blockade runners don't have an additional high-slot, isn't it. Seems to be the predestined ship for this kind of FW.
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Haramir Haleths
Nutella Bande
21
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
The art of pvp is to counter fit your opponent. And dont blame the mechanics if you are to stupid to fit your ship right. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
1046
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
so let me guess this straight:
you're complaining you're not getting a fight out of someone that fit a ship so that HE doesn't have to fight. so, working as intended? also he's getting tears out of all this mess.
holy **** it's BURN EDEN and their warpcore whaawhaaa all over again! fun times! [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1127
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:
This play style adds no content to the game.
He got you all riled up, so he's clearly adding content. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
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