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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Transmaritanus
Sinister Elite Black Legion.
72
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 04:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
So for those in FW, I'm sure you've noticed the farmers. Stabbed, cloaked ships that orbit buttons that add no content other than running at anything that shows up within 1AU on Dscan.
Just as a regular example, here's what's wrong with the system as it is now : [IMG]Quadrouble Stabs FTW[/IMG]
The variation is 3 stabs and a cloak on a T1 frigate, usually an atron due to the slot layout (guns and spare highslot for cloak with 3 lows for stabs)
This play style adds no content to the game. They are avoiding PvP as well as PvE, as once the ONE rat in the plex is dead they literally sit and just run down their timer.
For those of you who suck at this game, you'll probably try to say that this argument is due to "OMG HE JUST WANTS TO KILL EASY PLAYERS." To those, a cursory glance at my kill board shows I have developed a excellent system in killing these farmers. My objective here is irrelevant, other than the ending of this farming.
Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking.
Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16106
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 04:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now?
They farm plexes. So what? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3199
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 05:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Your bio wrote:All PvP in Eve is consensual. You consent when you log in.
Fixed. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2897
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 05:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Didn't stop him from getting blown up, did it?
I see no problem here.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Hiyora Akachi
UNITAS. Silent Infinity
198
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 06:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Your bio wrote:All PvP in Eve is consensual. You consent when you log in. Fixed.
Consensual EvE'ing. Sounds kinky. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
433
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what?
Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16108
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. No, only to posts that purport to GÇ£solveGÇ¥ some kind of problem without explaining what the actual problem is or why it needs to be solved.
Quote:Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever. If you say soGǪ But I don't think anyone who has actually played the game will agree with you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. No, only to posts that purport to GǣsolveGǥ some kind of problem without explaining what the actual problem is or why it needs to be solved. Quote:Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever. If you say soGǪ But I don't think anyone who has actually played the game will agree with you.
the issue he has, in case you really didn't get it, is with FW-Farmers that fit to avoid any PvP.
as FW seems to be designed as PvP and not PvE content, I kinda see the issue he has. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16108
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
embrel wrote:the issue he has, in case you really didn't get it, is with FW-Farmers that fit to avoid any PvP.
as FW seems to be designed as PvP and not PvE content, I kinda see the issue he has. Yes, I got that, but that's just him being annoyed that people aren't getting into fights with him, not a design problem. FW is designed to be content you compete. If someone has figured out a way to compete over it without shooting people, then that's not really a problem unless there is no way to compete backGǪ
GǪbut the OP doesn't mention any such problem GÇö only his annoyance that the competition isn't competing the way he wants them to. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3664
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 07:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
If he gets them anyway, the solution seems to be to spread the information so others get the farmers too. |
|
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 09:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
I agree with Tippia. He sacrificed all his lows on stabs, if you want to compete with that guy, fit all your mids with scramblers. Problem solved! |
Generals4
1965
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Didn't stop him from getting blown up, did it? I see no problem here. Mr Epeen
He made a rookie mistake, he forgot his cloaking device. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Fr00b Snap
Darkcore Corporation
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Easy solution would be that if you leave plex timer resets after 15 or so seconds, to protect against DC. |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
290
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Of course it's broken. Plex farming is totally risk averse and completely inconsistent with everything else in lowsec. Good solution to cloaking but doesn't fix the problem.
What is your system for killing them? Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
237
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
''We can not ban/remove warp core stabs.'' Why not? I'd gladly see warp stabs removed from the game.
As for cloaking, I'd like to see a probe method that can decloak a ship on solar map alongside an on grid area effect field that decloaks ships. I am aware of the hard code issue around cloaks but if wishes were horses. |
Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
290
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:''We can not ban/remove warp core stabs.'' Why not? I'd gladly see warp stabs removed from the game.
They have their place. Travel fits, noctis, scout ship, um... I'm sure there are more. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Kahetha
Sky Boxers Northern Associates.
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nonono, you see, this is working as intended; FW is/was intended as an easy access gateway to PVP for newer players, so teaching them that sometimes someone gets away, is just part of life!
"Pirates" and "PVPers" in EVE (and other games) are under the impression that is it their right to kill other players. Not because the victim was doing something in particular or because the victim was in a particular place, but because the victim exists. Therefore, when the "pirates" or "PVPers" 'right' to killing is violated (when someone gets away), they feel "robbed" of a kill, because in their world view, once a victim is in sight that player is rightfully his to kill and has no right to get away.
But of course the reality of things is that when someone tries to kill you, or you know you are going into a situation where people will be trying to kill you, you will try and take actions to prevent that. For example "pirates" and "PVPers" will fit resist mods and extenders/plates/rep mods and perhaps make use of logi ships for precisely that reason! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2589
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever.
Ahhhh, that's so sweet, Tippia has another virtual slave to follow her around like a puppy nipping at her heels. That tends to happen when tip spanks a poster long enough, they stop being able to argue and can do nothing more than mount a weak personal attack.
i mean, it's not like this forum has an ignore function that could magically make Tippia go away for anyone who doesn't like Tippia.....
|
Prince Kobol
874
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:So for those in FW, I'm sure you've noticed the farmers. Stabbed, cloaked ships that orbit buttons that add no content other than running at anything that shows up within 1AU on Dscan. Just as a regular example, here's what's wrong with the system as it is now : [IMG]Quadrouble Stabs FTW[/IMG]The variation is 3 stabs and a cloak on a T1 frigate, usually an atron due to the slot layout (guns and spare highslot for cloak with 3 lows for stabs) This play style adds no content to the game. They are avoiding PvP as well as PvE, as once the ONE rat in the plex is dead they literally sit and just run down their timer. For those of you who suck at this game, you'll probably try to say that this argument is due to "OMG HE JUST WANTS TO KILL EASY PLAYERS." To those, a cursory glance at my kill board shows I have developed a excellent system in killing these farmers. My objective here is irrelevant, other than the ending of this farming. Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking. Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now.
How about a system where when YOU land on grid all opposing player suffer a full system shut down so they are unable to do anything?
|
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2606
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
So by merely showing up on grid, you scare the guy away and win the plex.
Congratulations, you won the encounter without firing a shot AND stopped him from making his plex money.
How is this broken? You won, he lost.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
|
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 12:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? the problem is that it's the best way to make isk and grind systems (not that anyone cares about grinding systems) in FW, a system that's intended to encourage solo or small-scale pvp. because the best way for plexers to operate is to make unfun and discourage fights any way they can, the way the system is working right now is robbing both the plexers and any other potential participants of the actual intended gameplay.
yeah, i say robbing. while cloaky/stabby alts warping away is gameplay and is pvp, it's really, really ****** and boring the way it is right now. it's making for a pretty poor game. i believe the complex system is meant to facilitate actual fights between players and that's not something that generally happens. the system is not meeting the goals of the redesign. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2607
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? the problem is that it's the best way to make isk and grind systems (not that anyone cares about grinding systems) in FW, a system that's intended to encourage solo or small-scale pvp. because the best way for plexers to operate is to make unfun and discourage fights any way they can, the way the system is working right now is robbing both the plexers and any other potential participants of the actual intended gameplay. yeah, i say robbing. while cloaky/stabby alts warping away is gameplay and is pvp, it's really, really ****** and boring the way it is right now. it's making for a pretty poor game. i believe the complex system is meant to facilitate actual fights between players and that's not something that generally happens. the system is not meeting the goals of the redesign.
So really what CCP needs to do is make people sign a waiver saying that they intend to PVP with other pilots when they enter a FW plex, right?
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Adson Wessiri
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? the problem is that it's the best way to make isk and grind systems (not that anyone cares about grinding systems) in FW, a system that's intended to encourage solo or small-scale pvp. because the best way for plexers to operate is to make unfun and discourage fights any way they can, the way the system is working right now is robbing both the plexers and any other potential participants of the actual intended gameplay. yeah, i say robbing. while cloaky/stabby alts warping away is gameplay and is pvp, it's really, really ****** and boring the way it is right now. it's making for a pretty poor game. i believe the complex system is meant to facilitate actual fights between players and that's not something that generally happens. the system is not meeting the goals of the redesign.
FW isn't necessarily about you getting kills. Players are competing over an objective. In the scenario presented the player in the cloaked ship lost the encounter because they lost control over or failed to take the plex. It's no less legitimate than if the player had been killed. You can encourage fights all you want but that doesn't mean someone can't devise a strategy to get around it and that is a completely legitimate way to play.
In this case you need to earn that kill instead of crying for CCP to change the game mechanics. If the player gets away so be it. You may now take the plex so it's not like you didn't gain anything. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Adson Wessiri wrote: FW isn't necessarily about you getting kills. Players are competing over an objective. In the scenario presented the player in the cloaked ship lost the encounter because they lost control over or failed to take the plex. It's no less legitimate than if the player had been killed. You can encourage fights all you want but that doesn't mean someone can't devise a strategy to get around it and that is a completely legitimate way to play.
In this case you need to earn that kill instead of crying for CCP to change the game mechanics. If the player gets away so be it. You may now take the plex so it's not like you didn't gain anything.
one goal of the fw mechanic redesigns were to encourage fights over plexes and fw is failing at that. it needs another look at if it's to achieve its goal. |
Zeraen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yeah I don't see anything wrong here. The way I see it is that the plexes are objectives and subterfuge is a legitimate option to capture the objectives. The best thing about Eve is that there is no way to fit a ship so that you counter everything perfectly. You could fit a ship to counter these "spies" but then you would be gimped if you had to fight anything else. It's all about trade offs and decisions. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
you can look at the previous fw plexing redesigns which were centred around nerfing solo no-fight frigate lp farming. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kahetha wrote:Nonono, you see, this is working as intended; FW is/was intended as an easy access gateway to PVP for newer players, so teaching them that sometimes someone gets away, is just part of life!
in this case it's a pity that blockade runners don't have an additional high-slot, isn't it. Seems to be the predestined ship for this kind of FW.
|
Haramir Haleths
Nutella Bande
21
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
The art of pvp is to counter fit your opponent. And dont blame the mechanics if you are to stupid to fit your ship right. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
1046
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
so let me guess this straight:
you're complaining you're not getting a fight out of someone that fit a ship so that HE doesn't have to fight. so, working as intended? also he's getting tears out of all this mess.
holy **** it's BURN EDEN and their warpcore whaawhaaa all over again! fun times! [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1127
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:
This play style adds no content to the game.
He got you all riled up, so he's clearly adding content. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
|
embrel
BamBam Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Haramir Haleths wrote:The art of pvp is to counter fit your opponent. And dont blame the mechanics if you are to stupid to fit your ship right. This is a sandbox games. Adept or leave, morons.
guess it's fashionable to write something in the forums along the lines of HTFU, even if basic common sense suggests that something might not be working as intended.
I reserve the right to use your formulation in the next "nerf AFK-cloaking"-thread.
Also, I'd say that the FW-part is rather not the most sandbox part of eve. It seems quite obvious that these plexes aim at facilitating PvP and are not meant to be another PVE-ISK-faucet, which is after all the result of such a fitting.
CCP changed cloaking mechanics in plexes, which is another indicator that those plexes are not meant to be farmed without a realistic chance of a PvP-encounter.
In the past, occasionally, mechanics changed. So maybe in a few cases it's not the player that adapts, but the game. |
Seth Darkness
Friends of Honor C0VEN
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 14:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why don't you use a scripted HIC? That will prevent anything from warping away from you.
Use scrams instead of disruptors.
Cloak up in a spot and wait for the target to come to you. |
Lin Suizei
151
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Seth Darkness wrote:Why don't you use a scripted HIC? That will prevent anything from warping away from you.
Use scrams instead of disruptors.
Cloak up in a spot and wait for the target to come to you.
Plex mechanics so favor the farmer that someone who is at the keyboard and following a simple set of rules (i.e. behaving exactly like a well-programmed bot) is for all intents and purposes invulnerable. You can't tackle him if he sees you coming from 1AU away and cloaks as soon as you appear.
Pre-camping plexes can work, but at that stage you're just counting on the farmer's greed, warping to an existing plex instead of cracking open a new one. You'd have better luck chasing AFK farmers with a triple-scram merlin. Xeros S*** > are you really suprised? im not here to pvp so why the fuc not Xeros S**** > oh go cry somewhere else, im not in fw for the ****** pvp
Welcome to faction war. |
Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
So according to OP, ppl who sit and mine asteroids are adding nothing to the game either, and the rocks should also magically bubble the miners by switching targets every 20 seconds and....whatever, I didn't really read the lame solution proposal anyway. If a game mechanic exists in any form, then the players will adapt to profit by those game mechanics. Simply because ppl aren't lined up in their ships at these sites for the pies to swoop down on them, that is why OP is QQ-ing in the forum plain & simple. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1233
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Of course it's broken. Plex farming is totally risk averse and completely inconsistent with everything else in lowsec. Good solution to cloaking but doesn't fix the problem.
What is your system for killing them?
umm pretty sure every pve system in eve is made that way. be it low sec null or high.
even with low sec missions you are pretty safe if you keep that eye on d-scan
0.0 with local and comms will keep you perma safe from everything but awoxers.
missions in high sec will keep you safe from everyone but awokers
and so on. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1233
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lin Suizei wrote:
Plex mechanics so favor the farmer that someone who is at the keyboard and following a simple set of rules (i.e. behaving exactly like a well-programmed bot) is for all intents and purposes invulnerable. .
dude this is true for every form of PVE... if you are paying attention you have no reason to die. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2610
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights.
Facilitate =/= Require
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
32
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:
umm pretty sure every pve system in eve is made that way.
okay. a fundamental misunderstanding. I didn't get that FW is PVE-content. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. Facilitate =/= Require you didn't read my first post |
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Prince Kobol
875
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
embrel wrote:MeBiatch wrote:
umm pretty sure every pve system in eve is made that way.
okay. a fundamental misunderstanding. I didn't get that FW is PVE-content.
It isn't.. its player generated content like all of Eve, hence the OP Problems |
Eva Ichinumi
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:49:00 -
[42] - Quote
The plex farmers will not turn into PvP pilots if plex farming would be denied.
There would just be alot of unfarmable empty plexes around. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2610
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. Facilitate =/= Require you didn't read my first post
I did, and I even replied to it too.
Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1926
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
the solution are timer resets.
They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Prince Kobol
875
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:the solution are timer resets.
They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress.
You do know how plex's work right?
Once you leave the boundary (30km) the timer stops.
So if they run from every plex as soon as somebody warps in they gain nothing.
So by simply denying them the ability to stay in the plex means you win and the plex'er gets nothing. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. Facilitate =/= Require you didn't read my first post I did, and I even replied to it too. Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it. your reply had nothing to do with my post. and having people run from every complex doesn't achieve the system's goal nor does it make an entertaining game. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3304
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
Yet another "solution" in search of a problem, posted in GD.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Ms 'Tardy
Pulse Lasers Anonymous
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes |
Alt Alter
Alt Ops
0
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
1. Faction Warfare is a great system for getting fights, you dont want a ******** atron with stabs and cloak on your killboard anyways, I mean that would just be farming kills and might as well be noobships so stop worrying about catching them. OP you have been out of FW for some time now and are really just looking to use the plexes to farm kills. Any pvp'er will fight and there you have your fight.
2. FW is in the Business tab along side agent finder, wallet, and contracts. this might be a clue to what its for. It is not in the social tab with fleets, sovereignty and corporations. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Bienator II wrote:the solution are timer resets.
They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress. You do know how plex's work right? Once you leave the boundary (30km) the timer stops. So if they run from every plex as soon as somebody warps in they gain nothing. So by simply denying them the ability to stay in the plex means you win and the plex'er gets nothing. this system isn't making fights and is incredibly boring. also the plexer just moves on - they don't care about the solar system. nobody does, anymore. if they hang around for the LP, the game just turns into two guys not fighting each other, staring at each other in local, not doing anything until one leaves. |
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Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ms 'Tardy wrote:ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes
Your dainty little feelings don't bring about change, only ridicule and a few laughs (cheap ones). Actual solution proposals bring about change, and then you have to gain enough momentum to get the Dev's attention. |
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
266
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Tippia wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now. What is the problem, exactly, and what's broken with the system as it is right now? They farm plexes. So what? Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever. And here I thought I was the only one that could see this. |
Alt Alter
Alt Ops
0
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Lee Saisima wrote:Ms 'Tardy wrote:ITT: Farmers butthurt at the potential loss of isk from changes Your dainty little feelings don't bring about change, only ridicule and a few laughs (cheap ones). Actual solution proposals bring about change, and then you have to gain enough momentum to get the Dev's attention.
If it was truely OPs intention to get the proposal to the devs he would have posted in Features & Ideas Discussion. He did not so obviously he is just wanting to have a rant/discussion, this time he picked the FW plex mechanics. |
Adson Wessiri
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.08.19 16:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:War Kitten wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:mining isn't a system specifically designed to facilitate fights. Facilitate =/= Require you didn't read my first post I did, and I even replied to it too. Once you chase him out of the plex, his ship isn't optimal for capturing that plex anymore is it? You won that PVP engagement - you just don't get a killmail out of it.
^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.
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Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
724
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:So for those in FW, I'm sure you've noticed the farmers. Stabbed, cloaked ships that orbit buttons that add no content other than running at anything that shows up within 1AU on Dscan. Just as a regular example, here's what's wrong with the system as it is now : [IMG]Quadrouble Stabs FTW[/IMG]The variation is 3 stabs and a cloak on a T1 frigate, usually an atron due to the slot layout (guns and spare highslot for cloak with 3 lows for stabs) This play style adds no content to the game. They are avoiding PvP as well as PvE, as once the ONE rat in the plex is dead they literally sit and just run down their timer. For those of you who suck at this game, you'll probably try to say that this argument is due to "OMG HE JUST WANTS TO KILL EASY PLAYERS." To those, a cursory glance at my kill board shows I have developed a excellent system in killing these farmers. My objective here is irrelevant, other than the ending of this farming. Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking. Now this isn't a fully developed system or solution, but it is a problem that I'm bring ing more to light. I welcome alternatives from those who aren't obviously trying to preserve the broken system as it is now.
Posting in a stealth nerf noob alts thread?
I too am excited about trading playability for more lag and shiny pictures.....:( Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Adson Wessiri wrote:^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.
if the best way to win the system designed to create fights is to not fight and make fights as unfun as possible, it's a sign the system is failing. |
Adson Wessiri
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Adson Wessiri wrote:^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.
if the best way to win the system designed to create fights is to not fight and make fights as unfun as possible, it's a sign the system is failing.
If you're running away every time someone enters the plex you aren't winning the system. In fact the exact opposite. You are losing the system. |
Drax Concrilla
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
20
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
To those who say you've "won" by making a farmer run off I call shenanigans. If you're in the opposing militia you need to sit there and deplex it to truly "win" - but then guess what? You still haven't won because in that time the farmer just goes and farms a separate plex - you lose both the time, isk, and plex battle.
If you warp off and chase him, you still lose. He then warps back to the original plex and gains a few more seconds/minutes toward completion due to no timer resets.
The only way you "win" here is to catch and kill him.
Note: I am not saying this is impossible or whining about it, but to say that you "win" by driving a farmer off is factually incorrect.
I believe the suitable solution here is a timer reset every time someone from your militia isn't actively plexing after X minutes - preferably 5 or less. This would include cloaking.
Banning stabs or cloaks is dumb, you should never ban a module as they are a part of the game whether you like it or not. Contriving some system like in the OP isn't ideal either, as it will penalize legitimate PvP and plex activities. |
Azurae
South West Trading
103
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
if your cloaking warpcorestabbed farmers were actually afk you would have no problem killing them and wouldn't need any of those measures. if they are not afk (hint: most of them are at the keyboard thats why they warp out and lead to you complaining about it) then nothing of those measures would help you since they could just burn out of range as you said and then warp off.
bottom line: your "solution" to the non existent problem would not solve anything if there was a problem.... |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:47:00 -
[60] - Quote
no. the majority of people don't see plexing as taking solar systems, they see it primarily as a way of making money. the best way to win is to leave and discourage pursuit by making it as unentertaining as you can you can circle buttons by yourself.
the same tactic works for the purposes of taking solar systems - just come back later after everyone's bored. |
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Transmaritanus
Sinister Elite Black Legion.
72
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
Adson Wessiri wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Adson Wessiri wrote:^^Pretty much this. People need to stop jerking it to their killboards and realize that just because you didn't get a killmail doesn't mean it wasn't PvP. FW may be there to help facilitiate fights but it's still objective based PvP. The first priority should be claiming your objectives not whoring for killmails.
if the best way to win the system designed to create fights is to not fight and make fights as unfun as possible, it's a sign the system is failing. If you're running away every time someone enters the plex you aren't winning the system. In fact the exact opposite. You are losing the system.
So by your logic, you would have no problem with resetting the timer if the plexers warp out right? Because hey, the objective is to hold the plex, and if they run out they should "lose" the engagement right?
Resetting the timer seems to be the best NEW idea out of this topic, the rest are those with plex alts trying to not get their money nerfed and fail trolls who don't read previous posts. Resetting the timer means if they're chased out their time is wasted, thus essentially killing their farming efforts if they cloak or chased off. Maybe reset the timer if it isn't run down for 30 seconds or so? |
Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:52:00 -
[62] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:no. the majority of people don't see plexing as taking solar systems, they see it primarily as a way of making money.
This is what makes me laugh. The only reason you are wanting to take more solar systems in the first place is to get your faction tier up and therefore profit more from taking fewer plexes. The whole argument in this thread of "plexing isn't FW, taking systems is FW!" is B.S. It's a hypocritical standpoint because once you have enough systems under your belt you'll be out there too raking in the dough. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 17:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
i don't see anyone making that argument
do factions bother maintaining anything higher than tier two, can anyone tell me? i haven't seen them any higher
plexers generally don't care about faction anyway, they just move to a convenient system with a low capture rating |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1316
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 17:25:00 -
[64] - Quote
from what i remember maintaining higher than tier two is a waste of LP due to the alt stabbed frigate hordes continually sucking the LP out |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
1811
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 17:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
Personally I would like the following change:
You can't warp out of dead space. You have to take a gate. (yes, this would mean adding gates to all the >Large FW plex.)
Not right on the entry point. But a distance away. Preferably outside of the capture radius.
Not just for FW plex either. For all dead space. That'd make me a happy person. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 17:55:00 -
[66] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:That'd make me a happy person.
There's your issue there. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:11:00 -
[67] - Quote
If you are having problems finding fights in FW plexes you might want to look at the systems your are playing in. Try Black Rise. I do run plexes to impact warzone control (as well as for the iskies) and the stabbed cloakers are very effective at contesting systems in both offensive and defensive roles. Best way to deal with them is to form a small gang and run all the plexes, or bring in your own alt.
Timer Rollback would help reduce their impact a little depending on how it is implemented, and I don't think you will hear many in FW saying they don't want it implemented unless they are trolling or doing nothing but running plex farming alts. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2466
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
I am amused that so many people are arguing whether more changes are needed. Please refer to this dev blog:
CCP Affinity wrote:We felt the complexes had swayed too far towards a PvE activity and this is not what we wanted at all. We want to move towards a more PvP like environment while still ensuring the complexes cannot be quickly farmed.
That was the motivation behind the change to plex machanics in Retribution. Has the motivation been fulfilled? Hordes of LP farming alts say otherwise. So does the fact that conquering the warzone doesn't take superior strategy or combat, but just making lots of people get in disposable frigates and spend hours mind-numbingly orbiting buttons (as demonstrated by Fweddit before they left).
Conclusion? More changes are needed.
What those changes should be, though, is another matter.
Transmaritanus wrote: Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking.
This idea has cruiser AB setups, and all other propless setups, as collateral damage. It also over-buffs the defenders of a plex when they intend to fight, as they don't need a point anymore to be sure their attacker doesn't get away. They can instead use an extra web when sitting on the warp-in. So... no. Switching LP-farming for kill-farming is not a solution.
The problem with the plexes is not that it's too easy to run away, or that running is not (or should not be) a valid tactic. It's that there's no downside to running a super-cheap button-orbiting farming frigate. Whether you choose to run away or not, the most you ever risk is losing a few minutes of AFK play, or having to replace a frigate costing 1 million ISK. It also requires next to no skill points and little piloting skill, while making upwards of 100 mil ISK per hour (running novice plexes at tier 2 with 1 k ISK/LP payout).
A simple way to do it is to up the risk or challenge (or both) of complexes until earning the ridiculous LP of a plex requires effort, thought, involvement, and commitment.
With that in mind, some random ideas:
- LP loss (or other counter-farming penalty) for failing to follow through with capturing a plex
- Tackle-capable NPCs (points, scrams, webs)
- System-wide alert notification when a plex is falling to the enemy
- Increase plex capture time, along with adding a "siege"-like module which nearly roots you in place, while increasing capture speed.
Remove plex slide-in, or using an acceleration gate temporarily (3-4 seconds) disrupts your warp drive Never mind, same problem as with Trans' proposal - Timer rollback when nobody is in a plex
All other PvE has risk/effort involved in addition to "watch d-scan and warp away".
- Mining: slow, very vulnerable ships.
- Missioning: clear speed / vulnerability / price tradeoffs. (does not apply to FW missions; those need to be nerfed as well)
- Ratting/exploration: leaving can seriously screw up what you were doing
- Wormholes: no local, tougher versions of the stuff above
- Incursions: high level of organization required
Why are FW plexes exempt, especially when they pay out so well? Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1069
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
FW plexes are broken, period. They're a joke farming system that caters to hordes of low-SP farming alts. Given a tier 3 or higher warzone, you can take a couple two day old alts and hilariously out earn a year old level 4 mission grinder, and do it with less risk to your characters or your bottom line. This is the problem with the current FW system. To be competent at the highest earning PVE in the game, be it lvl4, Incursions, or lowsec/null ratting/exploration combat requires a decent skillset and a few million parked into a ship. To be competent at FW plexing requires a T1 frigate and enough skill training to fit stabs and a T1 cloak. And since these people always run if given the chance, it truly is nothing more than PVE content. They kill the rat, they cap the plex, they move on.
Timer resets after a short period are a fantastic option. You ***** out, you pay for it.
Elite faction NPCs would be a fantastic option, as well. Let the NPCs scram/web/ewar.
As to FW mechanics themselves, system upgrade level should mean more than just cheaper clones and more lolfarming LP. It should make your system harder to o-plex, through tougher and more numerous NPCs per level, an NPC respawn chance, a shift in capture percentages similar to DUST system effects, etc. Make it worthwhile for people to pay LP into their ihub and try to keep their warzone tier, instead of waiting for the whole thing to flip so they can pull out the opposite faction farming alts that they keep on the back burner. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:33:00 -
[70] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:...
As to FW mechanics themselves, system upgrade level should mean more than just cheaper clones and more lolfarming LP. It should make your system harder to o-plex, through tougher and more numerous NPCs per level, an NPC respawn chance, a shift in capture percentages similar to DUST system effects, etc. Make it worthwhile for people to pay LP into their ihub and try to keep their warzone tier, instead of waiting for the whole thing to flip so they can pull out the opposite faction farming alts that they keep on the back burner.
I love the idea of more rats based on the level of the system, don't think you really need to make them harder though. Trying to offensive plex in a 1mil isk frig with no SP vs 5 frig rats would be funny as hell to see. Doesn't help with people that farm defensively, but hey, no reason to stay with only 1 change. This is going onto my favorite list of changes I would like to see for FW sites.
1. Timer Rollback 2. More NPC rats per plex based on system upgrade level (farming the BC level tags might be worth it, but requires active engagement, and the price per tag would come down)
Question, Do the rats in the plexes shoot neutrals now? If not that is going as number 3 on my list. |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1069
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote: Question, Do the rats in the plexes shoot neutrals now? If not that is going as number 3 on my list.
Only if you have low standings to that faction. They follow standard rat aggression rules.
I agree that they should attack neutrals, however. In the technical sense, a neutral has no business in a FW plex, and should be KOS to the plex rats, regardless of faction standings.
ETA: They need to do something else with d-plexing. I have no idea what, but I can tell you that I don't for one second miss wasting hours to d-plex our home system at minimum payout, just to continue being able to dock up. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:43:00 -
[72] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:They're a joke farming system that caters to hordes of low-SP farming alts.
Define "low-SP"? How many months / years must a player sit and wait before they have enough SP that they are deemed "adequately involved" in the game to begin making decent ISK?
Domanique Altares wrote:Given a tier 3 or higher warzone, you can take a couple two day old alts and hilariously out earn a year old level 4 mission grinder
There will always be imbalances in the game. What is profitable one day may not be so the next, and players will naturally gravitate toward what is most profitable, and why not?
Domanique Altares wrote:To be competent at the highest earning PVE in the game, be it lvl4, Incursions, or lowsec/null ratting/exploration combat requires a decent skillset and a few million parked into a ship. To be competent at FW plexing requires a T1 frigate and enough skill training to fit stabs and a T1 cloak
And what were you doing before you had enough SP & ISK to run incursions / lvl 4's? Were you constantly docked in-station awaiting that magical 5 mil SP mark whilst playing on another alt, or did you undertake an ISK-making process that benefitted your low-SP requirements? Did other players begrudge you for doing this because they too saw it as easy ISK for a low-level player?
A large chunk of the high-SP playerbase constantly bemoaned the fact that new players & alts were hatching all the time and simply being logged into every once in a while for their skill queue to be updated, never undocking from their stations and contributing nothing to the game until a certain SP threshold was reached. Now the same playerbase bemoans the fact that new, low-SP characters are out in LOW-SEC undertaking ISK-making activities. The "broken system" card is always pulled out under these circumstances, just because ppl have no concept of game mechanics. |
Nikki Audier
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:54:00 -
[73] - Quote
Kahetha wrote:Nonono, you see, this is working as intended; FW is/was intended as an easy access gateway to PVP for newer players, so teaching them that sometimes someone gets away, is just part of life! "Pirates" and "PVPers" in EVE (and other games) are under the impression that is it their right to kill other players. Not because the victim was doing something in particular or because the victim was in a particular place, but because the victim exists. Therefore, when the "pirates" or "PVPers" 'right' to killing is violated (when someone gets away), they feel "robbed" of a kill, because in their world view, once a victim is in sight that player is rightfully his to kill and has no right to get away. But of course the reality of things is that when someone tries to kill you, or you know you are going into a situation where people will be trying to kill you, you will try and take actions to prevent that. For example "pirates" and "PVPers" will fit resist mods and extenders/plates/rep mods and perhaps make use of logi ships for precisely that reason!
I agree with the above and would like to add that if they deem it a right to kill once they have them in their crosshairs why don't they play a FPS?
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
The real driver for the need for change to plex mechanics isn't about SP, it is about farmers.
I don't think many are saying low SP chars need to be punished and not be able to make isk. A low SP station trader can make absolute bank if that is their thing. It requires effort/time/experience. One of the best things in my opinion about FW is that new players (and characters) can have an impact, that isn't to say I think they should have a larger impact then those that have more effort/time/experience. Changing the rats, timer rollback, and maybe one or two other changes wouldn't mean that low SP characters are worthless in FW, it just means that their impact on the warzone would be slightly reduced hopefully (and more in line with the impact low SP chars have in other parts of the game).
Either way, I don't think the major focus for people wanting change in plex mechanics is on how much SP the farmers have, it is in how PVE focused they are, and how much of an impact they have on the warzone. Warzone control is a seesaw that swings super quickly based on the alt farming hoards (not so much on the "newplayer" farmers). |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
1926
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:00:00 -
[75] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Bienator II wrote:the solution are timer resets.
They will run only so often before they realize this isn't pve, they are supposed to stay in the plex and defend their progress, not run away while making progress. You do know how plex's work right? yes eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1069
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:01:00 -
[76] - Quote
Lee Saisima wrote:
And what were you doing before you had enough SP & ISK to run incursions / lvl 4's? Were you constantly docked in-station awaiting that magical 5 mil SP mark whilst playing on another alt, or did you undertake an ISK-making process that benefitted your low-SP requirements? Did other players begrudge you for doing this because they too saw it as easy ISK for a low-level player?
A large chunk of the high-SP playerbase constantly bemoaned the fact that new players & alts were hatching all the time and simply being logged into every once in a while for their skill queue to be updated, never undocking from their stations and contributing nothing to the game until a certain SP threshold was reached. Now the same playerbase bemoans the fact that new, low-SP characters are out in LOW-SEC undertaking ISK-making activities. The "broken system" card is always pulled out under these circumstances, just because ppl have no concept of game mechanics.
I still can't run incursions or level 4s. I don't have standings and I don't spend enough time in hisec to bother. And I have no desire to do either, anyway. I scammed people and I ran missions up through level 3 and got tired of it. I joined Rifterlings, moved to low sec, and have been there ever since. When and if I make isk through PVE play, I do it in exploration combat plexes and WHs. Sometimes I even still scam people when I make a run to a trade hub.
I don't care how people make isk, or how much. It's the point that FW income is out of risk/reward and time sink balance with every other similar space-based isk faucet in the game. The people that truly farm it aren't training for higher SP. They train exactly enough to ensure mostly AFK viability through stabs and cloaks, and they stop. They grind the LP until it starts to peter out due to warzone control, and then they either log in opposite faction farming alts, or biomass the current ones and train a new set to farm the other side. Even at T1, the income from FW o-plexing is quite comparable to blitzing level 4s, and there is little actual risk involved. FW is an unexciting and unbalanced offering. The amount of isk isn't in question; it's the risk that's tied to earning it that's underwhelming. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1070
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Warzone control is a seesaw that swings super quickly based on the alt farming hoards (not so much on the "newplayer" farmers).
Exactly. And the farmers are rarely handled by new players, anyway. The majority are run by experienced players who know exactly how to game the system; they simply use low SP alts to do so. More power to them, but FW warzone control is supposed to hinge on war and player conflict, not how many throwaway farming alts one side can conscript versus the other at a given time. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2467
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:15:00 -
[78] - Quote
Lee Saisima wrote: There will always be imbalances in the game. What is profitable one day may not be so the next, and players will naturally gravitate toward what is most profitable, and why not?
There will always be injustice in the world, so why even have police or government?
People will always gravitate towards more/easier ISK, more powerful combat ships, more reliable intel mechanics, or more effective tactics, but that is not a valid argument for not enacting any sort of change. "People will do what's in their interest, so we will just be stagnant" sounds like a economic-political platform, not a game design strategy.
"Gun-mining" is abused? Nerf it! Nobody mines anymore? Buff mining! Battleships use nanos to be faster than interceptors? Fix it! More than half of T1 ships are never used? Rebalance them!
Creating a skill-less alt that orbits a button in a cloaky, warp-stabbed frigate is more profitable than most other income sources? Well, I'm sure you get the point. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:20:00 -
[79] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:They grind the LP until it starts to peter out due to warzone control, and then they either log in opposite faction farming alts, or biomass the current ones and train a new set to farm the other side
And what evidence for this? And even if this were true, they're alts, as you say.
Domanique Altares wrote:They train exactly enough to ensure mostly AFK viability through stabs and cloaks, and they stop
So these hypothetical alts aren't "new" players, as you point out, because a new player would want to train beyond FW plexing (else why make the ISK?). They are experienced players, like yourself or anyone else, exploiting a game mechanic.
So if there was a nerf for FW plexes tomorrow, what would happen? Said playerbase would simply re-invent these alts for ice mining, or gas sites, or combat sites, or whatever rakes in the most "ISK per hour" - and they'll figure it out, remember, because they've been playing EVE for months / years already, they're not newbies. So are FW plexes the culprit? No. Chaning their mechanics wouldn't change the situation. As you point out yourself, it's the ability to mass-spawn alts that is the root of this problem - not new players, or cloaks, or SP requirements; that's missing the point. It's the existing playerbase and the availability of multiple accounts and cheap alts.
But then comes the question of who are you to say "one toon per person"? You'll always be fighting this fight. Just be at peace with it. |
Adson Wessiri
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:28:00 -
[80] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I am amused that so many people are arguing whether more changes are needed. Please refer to this dev blog: CCP Affinity wrote:We felt the complexes had swayed too far towards a PvE activity and this is not what we wanted at all. We want to move towards a more PvP like environment while still ensuring the complexes cannot be quickly farmed. That was the motivation behind the change to plex machanics in Retribution. Has the motivation been fulfilled? Hordes of LP farming alts say otherwise. So does the fact that conquering the warzone doesn't take superior strategy or combat, but just making lots of people get in disposable frigates and spend hours mind-numbingly orbiting buttons (as demonstrated by Fweddit before they left). Conclusion? More changes are needed.What those changes should be, though, is another matter. Transmaritanus wrote: Obviously, we cannot ban warp core stabs or cloaks in fits, as that would adversely affect legitimate game play. To solve these problems, the button (the structure in the middle) could become a structure that can target any player running down the timer, which prevents a cloak. To nullify the stabs, either the equivalent of a interdiction bubble, or perhaps a focused warp disruption(that switches targets every 30 seconds, and has a range about 20km past the button range) would prevent no-risk timer running down. The target switching is there to not adversely affect legitimate pvp. A solo player should not be affected by this, as they can just burn out when on dscan. An afk plex alt will be affected, as by definition of AFK means they aren't looking.
This idea has cruiser AB setups, and all other propless setups, as collateral damage. It also over-buffs the defenders of a plex when they intend to fight, as they don't need a point anymore to be sure their attacker doesn't get away. They can instead use an extra web when sitting on the warp-in. So... no. Switching LP-farming for kill-farming is not a solution. The problem with the plexes is not that it's too easy to run away, or that running is not (or should not be) a valid tactic. It's that there's no downside to running a super-cheap button-orbiting farming frigate. Whether you choose to run away or not, the most you ever risk is losing a few minutes of AFK play, or having to replace a frigate costing 1 million ISK. It also requires next to no skill points and little piloting skill, while making upwards of 100 mil ISK per hour (running novice plexes at tier 2 with 1 k ISK/LP payout). A simple way to do it is to up the risk or challenge (or both) of complexes until earning the ridiculous LP of a plex requires effort, thought, involvement, and commitment. With that in mind, some random ideas:
- LP loss (or other counter-farming penalty) for failing to follow through with capturing a plex
- Tackle-capable NPCs (points, scrams, webs)
- System-wide alert notification when a plex is falling to the enemy
- Increase plex capture time, along with adding a "siege"-like module which nearly roots you in place, while increasing capture speed.
Remove plex slide-in, or using an acceleration gate temporarily (3-4 seconds) disrupts your warp drive Never mind, same problem as with Trans' proposal - Timer rollback when nobody is in a plex
All other PvE has risk/effort involved in addition to "watch d-scan and warp away".
- Mining: slow, very vulnerable ships.
- Missioning: clear speed / vulnerability / price tradeoffs. (does not apply to FW missions; those need to be nerfed as well)
- Ratting/exploration: leaving can seriously screw up what you were doing
- Wormholes: no local, tougher versions of the stuff above
- Incursions: high level of organization required
Why are FW plexes exempt, especially when they pay out so well?
I don't think anyone has said no changes are needed. In fact I agree that some changes are needed. The problem is that OP was complaining about people running away from him instead of fighting. This thread is full of people that just have a hard on for easy killmails. If someone gets away then move on to someone else or get a group and hunt him down. Or fit to counter the fits that you are complaining about.
The reset timer thing isn't a terrible idea in my opinion for countering this. People can still use these tactics and have the freedom to disengage if they so choose. Then they must weigh the consequences of fleeing the fight and losing the plex vs staying and potentially losing their ship. |
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:30:00 -
[81] - Quote
There is more then one issue with the current plex mechanics but lets just look at alts for a quick sec...
Yes Please. Move the alt hoards to mining = cheaper ships, lower impact on warzone control.
The problem isn't the alts, the problem is the amount of impact they have for the skills/time/effort/risk they have to take. I would love to see alts in orca's flying all over low sec mining (or at least trying to). |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2390
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:32:00 -
[82] - Quote
Moving this from General Discussion to Features and Ideas. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:36:00 -
[83] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: There will always be injustice in the world, so why even have police or government?
...
"People will do what's in their interest, so we will just be stagnant" sounds like a economic-political platform, not a game design strategy
Actually, (and that is a mis-quote of my original statement) the fact is that game mechanics can be exploited infinitely more systematically and successfully than government systems in RL. So comparing this argument to government is moot. If game Devs have to change the mechanics frequently to avoid exploitation, then they are clearly missing a *core* imbalance and simply attempting to resolve issues on the surface instead of the underlying ones. A game is a competitive environment, and my original statement simply meant that to avoid the most competitive edge for the sake of remaining a balanced player is a na+»ve suggestion. |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
151
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:37:00 -
[84] - Quote
Would very much like to see the plexing system changed.
Living in the warzone I can say that while plexes do promote pvp to some extent, most plexes end up being run by someone who 1) doesn't care about FW at all 2) is in a ship that can only run instead of defending itself in a fight
This just makes FW into a huge ISK grinding machine where pvp is very much secondary. Something that FW isn't supposed to be.
A friend of mine recently said: "I hate everything that FW has become" and that seems to be a pretty popular opinion among the people who have spent the majority of their EVE careers in FW.
"leave FW if you don't like it herpaderp" Yeah and you go **** youself. |
Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Moving this from General Discussion to Features and Ideas.
Ffs, move it back. There are no valid ideas here, nor is there such a discussion in the OP. Stop moving popular threads out of GD because you *think* it belongs here. This is a discussion thread and not a features & ideas thread. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1070
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:48:00 -
[86] - Quote
Lee Saisima wrote:If game Devs have to change the mechanics frequently to avoid exploitation, then they are clearly missing a *core* imbalance and simply attempting to resolve issues on the surface instead of the underlying ones.
You mean such as changing plexes so that the timer doesn't run down with NPCs present, so that you can no longer AFK a plex by speed tanking around the button in a turretless nano frig? That certainly seems to have slowed them down. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Lee Saisima
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:54:00 -
[87] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:You mean such as changing plexes so that the timer doesn't run down with NPCs present, so that you can no longer AFK a plex by speed tanking around the button in a turretless nano frig? That certainly seems to have slowed them down.
Lee Saisima wrote:As you point out yourself, it's the ability to mass-spawn alts that is the root of this problem
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1534
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:10:00 -
[88] - Quote
tl;dr CCP should implement timer rollback feature to help push plexing alts further into the dark corners of the FW map.
Shorter version: When is CCP going to implement a feature nearly every single player in FW wants implemented?
To the Point Version: @CCP. Please provide update on your plans to implement a timer rollback feature in FW that we've been asking for (for over a year now).
*sigh* |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
2467
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:14:00 -
[89] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:tl;dr CCP should implement timer rollback feature to help push plexing alts further into the dark corners of the FW map.
Shorter version: When is CCP going to implement a feature nearly every single player in FW wants implemented?
To the Point Version: @CCP. Please provide update on your plans to implement a timer rollback feature in FW that we've been asking for (for over a year now).
*sigh* Too wordy. Brevity is the soul of wit, man. Can we have a tl;dr? Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - lowsec pirate operation, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1534
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:32:00 -
[90] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:X Gallentius wrote:tl;dr CCP should implement timer rollback feature to help push plexing alts further into the dark corners of the FW map.
Shorter version: When is CCP going to implement a feature nearly every single player in FW wants implemented?
To the Point Version: @CCP. Please provide update on your plans to implement a timer rollback feature in FW that we've been asking for (for over a year now).
*sigh* Too wordy. Brevity is the soul of wit, man. Can we have a tl;dr? Sure: TIMER ROLLBACKS FTW. |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1070
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
Lee Saisima wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:You mean such as changing plexes so that the timer doesn't run down with NPCs present, so that you can no longer AFK a plex by speed tanking around the button in a turretless nano frig? That certainly seems to have slowed them down. Lee Saisima wrote:As you point out yourself, it's the ability to mass-spawn alts that is the root of this problem
It's not even mass spawning alts. It's that mass spawned alts can be used to do it, to the point of being more time and training efficient than using an actual skilled character. You never get any better or more efficient at orbiting a button than you are on day one out of the CC. I can sign up 30 accounts today; I cannot take them and go run an Incursion with ISBoxer. What I can do is enlist a third of them in FW and start my own agricultural co-op that churns out isk faster than pretty much anything else in the game. Even the startup for miners is more demanding. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Murk Paradox
Red Tsunami The Cursed Few
450
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 21:37:00 -
[92] - Quote
Buff isboxer? "But my favourite visual experience in Eve was a pipebombing run on a digital projector. Sure, the aliasing can never match the perfection of a 2160p image - but you can't beat a five metre space volcano on your wall." - Lord Maldoror(RnK)
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Chidori Ukyo
Huang Yinglong White-Lotus
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 00:47:00 -
[93] - Quote
Transmaritanus has brought up an issue for GD. In short, it is parasitism.
Eve is a complex dynamic system. Within such systems, we will always find various forms of Parasitism. It is to be expected. As such, it must be continually addressed.
There are two ways in which parasites can be handled. One is for the entities within the system to adapt and fight the parasites on their own. This can be compared to biological systems arms races. We have been doing this for quite some time. I have multiple stab + cloak kills on my board too.
However, the issue has reached a tipping point where we can go no longer handle the parasites in the form and numbers that they have reached on our own.
We therefore must resort to the second form of handling the parasites. We must have CCP make changes to the system's inherent flaws. Through the course of the discussion, we have pretty well established that they do exist and what they are.
Ideas have been brought forth, and apparently the thread was moved to F&ID.
So here they are, CCP: 1)Timer Rollback or Reset - This idea has been fairly well hashed out. The overwhelming consensus among the non-parasites is that this will work well, and is in theme with the entire concept of FW. Do it. You keep what you kill. --Chronicles of Riddick
2)The Cloaking Issue- Idea: Have the platform or beacon target the person attempting to capture the plex, give it a targetting range 2x the distance of the capture range. Perhaps another idea would be to increase the prereqs for cloak usage or adjust the mechanics in some creative way to keep them from cloaking within the capture range, or from cloaking if they have left the capture range within a certain amount of time. Perhaps something like a pos' force field?
I have to ask: Is cloaking really an issue at the core of the parasitism? I'm going to vacillate on this one. I hate that they are used in the way that they are. However, I must concede that many use them with Stealth Bombers. If we take cloaking away from people inside our FW Plexes, we must also take them away from Mission Running Stealth Bombers. You know who you are. Imho, this issue gets a pass. For now.
3)Warp Core Stabilizers- Ideas: make the plex dead space act much like a warp bubble, the only way out is a warp gate. Someone mentioned HICs. Seth Darkness, iirc. Perhaps you are not familiar with low sec. I will let the others bash you for your ignorance of our ways. That said, another idea would be to bring back warp bubbles and interdiction spheres to low sec! (yea, right. that's going to happen)
4)System Upgrades should affect the passive defenses of the plex in some fashion. We are throwing LP at the system core. it ought to be able to afford a few extra ships to help defend the plex and make it harder for poorly fit people to take them. Increase the risk.
5)Plexes are now more numerous. Limit the number of available plexes of a single size to one, that way they can not just pop another of the same size and run between them. Keeping the numbers up is a good thing, making all of them available at once is not. There have been time when it has gone beyond annoying. This will also help force more fights.
6)Concord Status: Neutrals and non-flashy Pirates. Idea: Activation of the entry warp gate requires safety set to yellow and automatically set suspect when activated. We should not be penalized for defending our territory! Reasoning: There are numerous groups within FW that are Anti-Pirate. The problem is that we must adjust our RoE while defending/attacking a plex.
7)D-Plexing Farmers: No ready solution has yet been presented that I am aware of. These would most likely harken back to the cloaking and stabbing issues and ideas presented earlier. This would mean that NOBODY should be able to cloak within the capture range of a plex + prohibition distance.
PS: I have to give props to the following people: Benny Ohu, Steve Ronuken, Domanique Altares, and even Transmaritus himself.
PSS: I would like to think that I speak for the majority of the non-parasitic FW community when I say that we enjoy our fights.
F the Farmers ..i..
sìâT¦ÑsŦS¦¼ |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 16:47:00 -
[94] - Quote
Please implement timer rollbacks asap. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 16:58:00 -
[95] - Quote
Bump. |
Irsam Samri
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 18:01:00 -
[96] - Quote
I did fw farming on 3 alts for a month or so. Its very boring and incredibly easy, you can capture a system based on the 30 seconds lead you have going into the new plex while the defender hunting you catches up. I've had people bounce around chasing me for over an hour and I still manage to capture 1-2 plexes without any risk and minimal effort. It boils down to a slow game of pong, I just have to move my token from a to b. I'm a pvp fan, but why not, if I can make 60 mil an hour with no risk, who wouldn't? The funny part is, newer players wouldn't control many alts at the same time, or have the dscan sense to make it risk free.
The adverse reaction to changing the mechanics honestly makes me suspect there is bot program that runs fw plexes and people have a lot to lose, since its easier to write a script for hitting than mining atm.
as someone with experience as a farmer.
My suggestion is simple and easy:
Defensive plexing works slightly faster than offensive plexing, not a complete reset, but allows the defender to actually defend a system if they choose to cat and mouse a farmer. And increase capture time based on the amount of people in the plex, for example 75% for each additional person other than the first with a 20% stacking penalty |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae
95
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 20:21:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:Typical Tippia response to absolutely everything. No, only to posts that purport to GǣsolveGǥ some kind of problem without explaining what the actual problem is or why it needs to be solved. Quote:Apparently the game mechanics were conceived of by a deity, are set in stone, perfect and nobody should change them at all, ever. If you say soGǪ But I don't think anyone who has actually played the game will agree with you.
Really? I love the isk you can make from plex farming like everyone else.....
But should orbitting around some stupid little with no risk structure should not be so profitable. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 14:37:00 -
[98] - Quote
Timer rollbacks are an easy step in the right direction. Farming will never go away, but that doesn't mean we can't make a dent in it. |
Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 13:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
I find this all quite comical. We have a few people here complaining about not being able to kill some guy running a plex, in Faction Warfare. It is quite clear from some of the replies, many of you have never run FW plexes, they are not always the easy income you suggest in a solo situation. You not only have to look out for enemy militia but are a target for anyone who enters the system. Because a FW member (generally solo in the plex) chooses to run from a gang trying to kill him who are actually not a part of FW but in fact only there for pvp (and like the op, looking for easy kills that might stand a chance of escaping). Yes FW is meant to generate pvp but when a FW player doing what he signed up for, Capturing and upgrading systems by capturing plex's, decides to run away from a gang of neuts trying to kill him , not as part of FW (they can't capture the plex or contribute to FW at all because they do not belong to a militia) but simply because he is there and they have the right to kill him.
Now if you want more FW pvp and not just ganking rights in FW space, join a militia.
There is a simple way to fix some of the problems with FW and increase plex pvp. Reduce LP payouts slightly. Make it so that only members of a militia can engage an enemy militia member in plexes. Change the mechanic so that once you enter a plex you can't warp out until it completes (or you lose your ship). If it is a novice plex only 1 enemy militia can enter to try and take it from the person trying to capture it. If it is a small, 2 enemy militia may enter to kill and capture the plex but both (if they survive) must remain in the plex to complete it. A medium would allow up to 3 to enter. A large is unlimited, that way those running large plexes also face the greatest risk. Have rollbacks for timers, if a person in a plex is engaged the timer actually counts backwards while the fight is going on, the winner of the fight picks up the remainder of the timer to complete the plex. EG; player A enters novice plex with 10 min timer, after 7 mins player B from opposing militia enters and engages player A for control of the plex, the fight last 2 mins 30 ses, leaving 4 min 30sec remaining on the timer, the winner of the fight then only has 5 min 30 sec to complete the capture. This might actually encourage more to join FW but probably not because many only want kills and FW is their chosen easy killzone.
The non militia pvper's are free to hunt and fight whoever they choose outside plexes, after all it is lowsec but plex's would be there there for militia members only. |
angelmaker79
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 14:48:00 -
[100] - Quote
how to fix broken plexing mechanics.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=275735&find=unread |
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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
134
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 15:02:00 -
[101] - Quote
WTF is this game coming to? Nonconsensual PVEers are carebearing in your system and your response is to whine about it on the forums? SHOOT THEM! If they don't die, shoot them again. Shoot them harder. Scan them down and kill them. Pod them without mercy and warp scramble their corpses.
They're not required to die any more than you are required to mine veldspar.
lulz |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1367
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 16:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:WTF is this game coming to? Nonconsensual PVEers are carebearing in your system and your response is to whine about it on the forums? SHOOT THEM! If they don't die, shoot them again. Shoot them harder. Scan them down and kill them. Pod them without mercy and warp scramble their corpses.
They're not required to die any more than you are required to mine veldspar.
lulz
Oh, hey. An ignorant who doesn't read. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1405
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 16:28:00 -
[103] - Quote
hot damn it's this thread, the one with me being right all over it
mayhaw morgan has never considered knowledge or experience on a topic prerequisites to commenting without looking like a tool |
HolidayDerp derf
Federation DC
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:08:00 -
[104] - Quote
qq
Step one:buy scorp with 4scrams 2 webs and 2 long points Step two:dont let whatever it is your shooting at run away Step three: dont cry its okay |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1405
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 17:12:00 -
[105] - Quote
ok thx brb yolo |
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