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Cyndrogen
Someone Else's Problem Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
467
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Posted - 2014.01.10 09:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why is the collision detection in eve so terrible?
I'm flying no where NEAR an asteroid and I hit it, now I don't mind losing ships, it's all good and fine, but WHY is the collision so poorly setup for large asteroid objects? Is there no way we can just turn on a bounding box visual cue or something to indicate when you are colliding with the asteroid?
Visually I was no where NEAR the damn asteroid yet my ship got stuck and I was unable to warp away. I wish we had SOME sort of proximity alert or some kind of bounding box so we can actually see when we are about to collide. |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2152
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 09:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote:Why is the collision detection in eve so terrible?
I'm flying no where NEAR an asteroid and I hit it, now I don't mind losing ships, it's all good and fine, but is the collision so poorly setup for large asteroid objects? Is there no way we can just turn on a bounding box visual cue or something to indicate when you are colliding with the asteroid?
Visually I was no where NEAR the damn asteroid yet my ship got stuck and I was unable to warp away. I wish we had SOME sort of proximity alert or some kind of bounding box so we can actually see when we are about to collide.
Dont fly withing 2000m of anything and you will be fine
Overview can help you with this
If you are a miner, using an ore scanner will make this a doddle without reducing your ability to spot other ships in the area.
EDIT: Though Im not sure how you are in GWCPS and not know any of this *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Cyndrogen
Someone Else's Problem Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
467
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Posted - 2014.01.10 09:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Cyndrogen wrote:Why is the collision detection in eve so terrible?
I'm flying no where NEAR an asteroid and I hit it, now I don't mind losing ships, it's all good and fine, but is the collision so poorly setup for large asteroid objects? Is there no way we can just turn on a bounding box visual cue or something to indicate when you are colliding with the asteroid?
Visually I was no where NEAR the damn asteroid yet my ship got stuck and I was unable to warp away. I wish we had SOME sort of proximity alert or some kind of bounding box so we can actually see when we are about to collide. Dont fly withing 2000m of anything and you will be fine Overview can help you with this If you are a miner, using an ore scanner will make this a doddle without reducing your ability to spot other ships in the area. EDIT: Though Im not sure how you are in GWCPS and not know any of this
I can't believe I didn't see it until it was too late. Purifier went pop from belt rats.... so embarrassing. |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2152
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 09:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote:
I can't believe I didn't see it until it was too late. Purifier went pop from belt rats.... so embarrassing.
That is quite embarrassing.
What was your tank? *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Lugalbandak
Anunnaku Warfare Corp.
403
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Posted - 2014.01.10 09:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote:Why is the collision detection in eve so terrible?
I'm flying no where NEAR an asteroid and I hit it, now I don't mind losing ships, it's all good and fine, but WHY is the collision so poorly setup for large asteroid objects? Is there no way we can just turn on a bounding box visual cue or something to indicate when you are colliding with the asteroid?
Visually I was no where NEAR the damn asteroid yet my ship got stuck and I was unable to warp away. I wish we had SOME sort of proximity alert or some kind of bounding box so we can actually see when we are about to collide.
if im right , eve calc. from center to center of object , thats wy you can hit something big while on your overview its shows up as distance The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2152
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 09:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lugalbandak wrote:
if im right , eve calc. from center to center of object , thats wy you can hit something big while on your overview its shows up as distance
Which is why stations are at 0km until you are 2,500km off the docking ring
Oh wait.... *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
1124
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Posted - 2014.01.10 10:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote:Why is the collision detection in eve so terrible?
Because, for simplicity's sake, Eve's physics model is based around speres. The distance between two objects, and the radius of their respected hitbox, ensure an easy way to determine collisions without taxing the server too much. Note that most objects in Eve Online are everything but round. That means their must have a hitbox either extending beyond their model, or a hotbox clipping their model (and potentially, others). Eve uses a combination of both leading to unpredictable results. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
126
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Posted - 2014.01.10 12:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Because serverside triangle to triangle collision detection is too expensive, it gets approximated by sphere to sphere detection, which is pretty fast to pull off. New player feeling neglected? You're important from day 1!!! Join the Epic Boo Bees! (female chars only, RP!)
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
828
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Posted - 2014.01.10 12:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote:Why is the collision detection in eve so terrible?
I'm flying no where NEAR an asteroid and I hit it, now I don't mind losing ships, it's all good and fine, but WHY is the collision so poorly setup for large asteroid objects? Is there no way we can just turn on a bounding box visual cue or something to indicate when you are colliding with the asteroid?
Visually I was no where NEAR the damn asteroid yet my ship got stuck and I was unable to warp away. I wish we had SOME sort of proximity alert or some kind of bounding box so we can actually see when we are about to collide.
Being able to see collision boxes would be cool. Hell, it can even be justified in the form of some minimum safe distance included by default into any ship protocol. G££ <= Me |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2155
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 12:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
THIS should play EXTREMELY loudly when you are within 2000m of any collidable.
It should repeat 5-11 times and CANNOT be turned off or the sound decreased
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyJjgXcVDjA *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
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Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
126
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Posted - 2014.01.10 12:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
I refuse to click that for my own safety, but the idea is HILARIOUS! XD
Imagine it!
WWWEEEEOOOOOWWEEEEEEOOOOOOWWEEEEEOOOOOOOWEEEEEOOOOO "BACK OFF! PLEASE! MAKE IT STOP!!" WWWEEEEEEOOOOOOWWWEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOWWWWEEEEOOOOO
That's a cheap 100 Million ISK for your sanity.
"NO! PLEASE I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY JUST GO AWAY!" WWWEEEEEEOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOWWWWEEEEEEE
LOL! New player feeling neglected? You're important from day 1!!! Join the Epic Boo Bees! (female chars only, RP!)
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
9071
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 16:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
I want to be able to bump an asteroid which will then bump a miner.
Don't blame me *******! The rocks are fighting back! Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Jamagh
Sci Adventures
141
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Posted - 2014.01.10 18:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ever warp into a belt and get stuck in a roid? I had to mine my way out. "Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."-á CCP Navigator. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1192
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Posted - 2014.01.10 18:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lugalbandak wrote:Cyndrogen wrote:Why is the collision detection in eve so terrible?
I'm flying no where NEAR an asteroid and I hit it, now I don't mind losing ships, it's all good and fine, but WHY is the collision so poorly setup for large asteroid objects? Is there no way we can just turn on a bounding box visual cue or something to indicate when you are colliding with the asteroid?
Visually I was no where NEAR the damn asteroid yet my ship got stuck and I was unable to warp away. I wish we had SOME sort of proximity alert or some kind of bounding box so we can actually see when we are about to collide. if im right , eve calc. from center to center of object , thats wy you can hit something big while on your overview its shows up as distance
This is not correct. Two ships can be 0m from a capital ship while being a decent distance from each other. Smartbombs when fitted on capitals affect a large area due to the large physicial size of a capital. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Cyndrogen
Someone Else's Problem Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
467
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 19:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Cyndrogen wrote:
I can't believe I didn't see it until it was too late. Purifier went pop from belt rats.... so embarrassing.
That is quite embarrassing. What was your tank?
semi passive mostly, medium shield extender and DCU. I started warping off around 30% shields, then realized I was completely stuck. By the time I was able to move away from the rock I went into structure. Attempted to align and hit the rock yet again. lolz. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1669
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 19:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote: I can't believe I didn't see it until it was too late. Purifier went pop from belt rats.... so embarrassing.
Biomass your character and unsubscribe your account. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3070
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 19:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote:Why is the collision detection in eve so terrible? Because it is based on spheres, not the ship models.
Actually, developers call them "balls" and they can only interact with other "balls" if they are within the same "bubble". |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
838
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 20:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
The asteroid collision detection is done with a variety of large "balls". For dead rocks in deadspace pockets, in many places the balls are way off size and way out of place, allowing you to move through some rocks while bouncing you off of empty space in other areas. In asteroid belts, the balls are usually quite a good bit larger than the actual asteroids (though centered on them correctly AFAIK), and so what can look like an easy passage could be a solid wall or a pinball machine entrance.
I don't know why this hasn't been addressed yet, but maybe it's something that can get fixed in the next expansion. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1363
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 20:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
+1 for Aura naughty talk when about to collide. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers SpaceMonkey's Alliance
429
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 00:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
collision detection is also a huge problem for a number of other objects especially in a lot of missions |
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Cyndrogen
Someone Else's Problem Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
470
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Posted - 2014.01.11 08:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:The asteroid collision detection is done with a variety of large "balls". For dead rocks in deadspace pockets, in many places the balls are way off size and way out of place, allowing you to move through some rocks while bouncing you off of empty space in other areas. In asteroid belts, the balls are usually quite a good bit larger than the actual asteroids (though centered on them correctly AFAIK), and so what can look like an easy passage could be a solid wall or a pinball machine entrance.
I don't know why this hasn't been addressed yet, but maybe it's something that can get fixed in the next expansion.
These balls their size is bigger then then the object they represent WAY bigger balls.
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Oberine Noriepa
1403
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Being able to see collision boxes would be cool. Hell, it can even be justified in the form of some minimum safe distance included by default into any ship protocol. I thought of something like this a couple days ago. It could be an option included in the tactical display when it receives its much needed update. |
Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2014.01.12 19:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
I just nearly got popped at a WH customs office because of this crap.
CCP, can't you just remove the collisions altogether for certain things? The whole system is messed up. There's no legitimate way to determine if you'll end up bumping an object if you're within 5 visual KM. I've had times where I end up warping into the collision sphere. I maneuver my ship in the reverse direction for 5 seconds, then hit warp which takes my ship far less than 5 seconds. Somehow, I've collided with the object again. How does that even make sense??
What on earth does bumping into the customs office or an asteroid add to the game anyways? Nothing. For ships I get it, but I don't see the motivation for these sorts of structures.
The only fix I can thing of is: Have it so our overview lights up red any celestials that are determined to not be warpable to (will result in a bump). This way we can at least see which celestials we can warp to instead of bumping off a bubble endlessly. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
521
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 20:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Like this? "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |
shimiku
Black VooDoo Asassins Cult of War
4
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Posted - 2014.01.13 07:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
try warp in to a drone hive and get stuck in it for an hour befor you are able to get out thats anoying a domi dont fly that fast so it take time to even find a way out because all the bumbing in to stuff that you cant see |
cyndrogen
Someone Else's Problem Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
471
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 07:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Why are they calculating balls anyway for collision detection?? Seems overkill when a bounding box would do the job just fine.
If the object it too large for a bounding box use an octree to solve a simple collision.
Don't make me program an octree! Give me a damn dev kit so I can fix this crap! |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
839
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 08:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Balls are the simplest way to do it. Rather than actually map out this sphere, the system merely detects your distance from its center. Since nothing in EVE is bump-mapped, this makes it very easy for the system to detect when you are inside of something. Bump-mapped environments have a hard edge which when you get past it, the rest of the object offers no resistance. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Cyndrogen
Someone Else's Problem Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
471
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 08:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Balls are the simplest way to do it. Rather than actually map out this sphere, the system merely detects your distance from its center. Since nothing in EVE is bump-mapped, this makes it very easy for the system to detect when you are inside of something. Bump-mapped environments have a hard edge which when you get past it, the rest of the object offers no resistance.
Maybe but they destroy immersion because they are so imprecise. Get rid of it or fix it. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
839
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 08:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
I think there are a lot of balls that should be fixed and a few places where more, smaller balls need to be added. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Julius Rigel
118
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Posted - 2014.01.13 08:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cyndrogen wrote:Maybe but they destroy immersion because they are so imprecise. How does that destroy immersion? Like so many other things, collision prevention is a feature of your autopilot that prevents you from getting within certain distances of certain objects. Like every feature of the autopilot, this system has its quirks.
Distances for "collision prevention" can be too large in many cases. The "approach" feature of the autopilot fails to use your velocity as a factor when calculating when to stop, resulting in extreme overshooting if you're going moderately fast, or slowing down too early and approaching very very slowly if you're going slow. The "keep at range" feature also has that same quirk, so you might end up stopping, turning, and flying away while trying to chase a target at a certain distance, or simply spinning in place if you try to "keep at range" a fast moving target.
But I don't feel like any of this breaks immersion, not anymore than the fact that we're flying through a highly viscous medium that causes enough drag that ships don't need to be built with reverse thrusters. It's just one of the presumptions you have to agree to in order to play, the same way "I'm magical cow that walks on its hind legs and rides a dragon" might be something you have to accept in order to play a fantasy game.
And aside from a select few things the autopilot prevents you from doing (you're not allowed to crash into things, you're not allowed to warp to arbitrary coordinates), you're free to pilot your ship manually if you so desire, and it's quite fun. Do YOU like to undock? |
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