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t0rfiFrans
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Posted - 2003.09.13 00:36:00 -
[1]
Nope it's not a post on what module combos are best or where the best mining grounds are. Just thought I'd mention two books I read during Christmas that adhere to the mindset of EVE and if you (role) play after their rules, you are sure to have fun and possibly come out as the king of the hill.
The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli
and
The Art of War by Sun Tzu
Both are very old texts ( 491 and and 2500 years old ). They are probably both available in full somewhere online, and there are many translations available. They both deal with the quest for power, war, and success at all costs.
The Art of War is more clear cut and concise wheras the Prince seems to be an excercise in writing far to many words to describe simple ideas. An interesting read nonetheless.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 00:43:00 -
[2]
Quote:
One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle.
Excellent read. Far more applicable outside warfare than most people give it credit
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
t0rfiFrans
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Posted - 2003.09.13 00:47:00 -
[3]
Absolutely. Can be used in almost any conflict. Even flame wars!
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:31:00 -
[4]
Read them both. Excellent reading.
Sarkos - Oracle
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:46:00 -
[5]
Another book I'd recommend, though few people know of it, is this one:
Tao of Jeet Kune Do
It's much less a training manual than people believe. And even fewer people know he authored a book.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Bashier Tarr
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:48:00 -
[6]
I read the prince, once for college work and again properly out of my own accord. It's a fantastic read, a real study on what makes men tick if you look at it right (the idea of the Necessitas is perfectly sublime, wish my country's president would do that).
I plan on reading the Art of War in full, but I've read small quotes and excrepts, and found that they apply to all competitive "games" (games in the Games Theory Sense), be them Military, Capitalist or even normal games like poker.
Good reccomendation
Gradient is hiring! Check our CoC here. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:50:00 -
[7]
I have never read any of this Sun Tzu, I'm utterly clueless...
Convert Stations
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 01:53:00 -
[8]
Quote: I have never read any of this Sun Tzu, I'm utterly clueless...
Online Translation of The Art of War
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 13/09/2003 02:04:32
I very much rate "The Prince" as a primer for political pragmatism, but would suggest Carl von Clausewitz "On War" in preference to the perenially popular "Art of the War", because it is more applicable to industrial-era conflict and covers a lot of good ground on the issues of defeat-in-detail, logistical structures and strategical attack.
Beyond these works though, I strongly advise anybody who hasn't already, read Frank Herbert's "Dune" series. The man is a great writer and a great thinker, and clearly knew more than most of us will ever know about the politics of spin and public relations in temperal and spiritual application.
Just think about this quote for a moment;
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true or false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.
The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica, Children of Dune 244
JF Public Forum |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: j0sephine on 13/09/2003 02:07:52
... And to round out the list of lectures which might enhance your EVE experience....
with apologies in advance :s
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Pistolio
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:07:00 -
[11]
And its always good to have a good book to read while mining... ____________________________________________
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:08:00 -
[12]
Quote: Edited by: j0sephine on 13/09/2003 02:07:52
... And to round out the list of lectures which might enhance your EVE experience....
with apologies in advance :s
May you be flogged for making me visit that link without warning
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
t0rfiFrans
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:09:00 -
[13]
Ah and of course:
Pax Ammaria.
I hear it will be available on the market soon...
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Temerlyn
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:22:00 -
[14]
he he i had posted sun tzu on my webpages along time ago as a means to fight our political batles in eve.
But the others look to be an interesting read
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:25:00 -
[15]
"May you be flogged for making me visit that link without warning "
Oh come, now; i apologized and i never do that without a really good reason.... wasn't that enough of a warning? :s~
... am willing to atone for my sin though *sniffs* except i think Mr.Snamn is already utilizing his whipping slaves... o.o;
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Lecavalier
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:27:00 -
[16]
Great topic t0rfiFrans. EVE is so well suited to all the political machinations, since we all live in the same game world.
Haven't read The Art of War yet, but I can heartily recommend The Prince, and second Jade's suggestion of Dune. The Prince is a virtual "how-to" guide, amazing that it has stood the test of time.
Dune is (IMHO) a masterwork, but am probably preaching to the converted, as I suspect a goodly chunk of the EVE population has already read it. We all like good sci-fi around here right?
And t0rfiFrans is that soon? or soon (TM)? Sorry couldn't resist.
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Karif
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:43:00 -
[17]
Sonshi's translation of The Art of War is one of the better ones I've seen over the years. While there are more 'modern' versions that describe warfare in more modern terms, the methods do not stray very far from this rather dated work.
While The Prince does relate more to EVE in general, it is a real shame more don't read Machiavelli's Discourses. It really changes the meaning of being 'Machiavellian'.
Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit (or Mind, depending on the translation) is a good read if you have a few years to kill. Very heady stuff, but a very brilliant work that ended up being the launching pad for many other more modern thinkers. Amarr/Minmatar players might be interested in the section on the Lord/Bondsman relation.
John Stuart Mills' 'On Liberty' is one of those short little books everyone should take the day or two to read. Especially those who love the Scope and the other various 'Free Presses' that have sprung up in EVE.
For the capitalist in you, John Locke's 'Second Treatise of Government' is worth a read. Predates Rand by a few hundred years but holds a lot of the same principles.
For the not-so-capitalist in you, Rouseau's 'The Origins of Inequality' and 'The Social Contract' are time well spent. The style it is written in makes it worth reading (even in translation, which is odd).
All very old stuff, all available free online, and also available at Ye Olde Bookstore. Blame the philosopher in me for this post =============================== Deception + Information + Skill |
Mjr Tom
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Posted - 2003.09.13 02:44:00 -
[18]
'The Prince' and 'The Art of War' are two of my three favourite books.
The third being 'Statecraft' by Margret Thatcher does not really relate to Eve.
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Saladin
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Posted - 2003.09.13 03:46:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Saladin on 13/09/2003 03:47:59 Sadly I have read neither, but have long since been on my to do list. Will probably read them after I am done with The Republic
Edit: Is Atlas Shrugged required reading for members of TTI? --------------------------- (c) Copyright Saladin, 2005. Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
ChandraGupta
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Posted - 2003.09.13 06:25:00 -
[20]
Read the Mahabharata.... I am no fanatic of my religion ... but u can pick up great points in there... of sense ,duty ,karm wat not. Great Epic :)
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.13 07:30:00 -
[21]
Anyone in the UK been watching "Time Commando's"?
Sun Tzu is a very interesting read - I like how it can apply to all walks of life not just battles.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.13 08:16:00 -
[22]
I would also add to that "The Book Of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Mushashi. An excellent contemplation of the role of the samurai swordsmen in warfare, with some excellent edicts and meditations on the art of tactical warfare. It is a core text for all Naginata pilots. -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Li ShangYin
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Posted - 2003.09.13 09:57:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Li ShangYin on 13/09/2003 09:58:31 Atlas Shrugged isn't required reading for TTI employees, I don't think even a mayority have read it, it is afterall quite long and people do have more intresting things to do than read a book if they have EVE.
As for Sun, I recommend the denma groups translation, excellent read, Denma Translation from amazon.com I have it and 2 others next to my computer in the DStroy library close at hand at all times. 5Rings is also nice, but it's perhaps a little more hands on...
btw sonshi.com has several other classics in online form available incase you are bored and want to read something creative. As for Machiavelli, I'd rather not comment t0rfi, so far I've not seen many people use it in any efficient way in eve. Not that I don't like following their tries at it, but you know how things are....
Oh and if you want to mess up other people's corps, there's a new book out in paperback called Enron : an anatomy of greed or something, make a fake, join some corp and pull off some of that stuff if you're really bored, that's why those 2 other character slots really exist afterall...
___________________________________ A spring day at the edge of the world. On the edge of the world once more the day slants. The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree.
-- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D. |
Irnaii
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Posted - 2003.09.13 10:34:00 -
[24]
I read the TAO of Jeet Kune Do, very good book. I would also recommend the Hagakure, tho i forgot who wrote it... i am in a little hurry, so no time for links :)
Irnaii Personnel Manager NERD Inc.
.210879COM _ Design & Art |
Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.13 10:38:00 -
[25]
Quote: I read the TAO of Jeet Kune Do, very good book. I would also recommend the Hagakure, tho i forgot who wrote it... i am in a little hurry, so no time for links :)
Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do books are pants IMO. Just regurgitated, repackaged Toaism, with some of the Chinese classics thrown in for good measure.
As a kung fu instructor of many years standing, it always amazes me how many people actually thought Bruce Lee was some kind of philosphic genius.Jeet Kune Do is an imcomplete, nonsensical art at best, exploited to the hilt by his students in order for them to get rich of its creaters myth. Nevermind, one born every minute as they say.
Cult of personality is a powerful thing, as Mr Inosanto's accountant can no doubt confirm -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Irnaii
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Posted - 2003.09.13 10:43:00 -
[26]
dear miso, the jeet kune do is not bs, for real. surely its not as deep as the tao-te-king, and yes it is more a unfinished work - but still a good read imho.
Irnaii Personnel Manager NERD Inc.
.210879COM _ Design & Art |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.09.13 10:45:00 -
[27]
Taoism is Dr Phil, it is what it is, live with it.
It offers nothing to those of us who are not experiencing anerysms [sp] on a daily basis.
Convert Stations
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.13 11:01:00 -
[28]
Quote: dear miso, the jeet kune do is not bs, for real. surely its not as deep as the tao-te-king, and yes it is more a unfinished work - but still a good read imho.
Yes I agree entirely - a very good read for those not acquainted with the fighting arts.
If you are, however, it is bland and uninteresting fare.
I do recommend you read "The Book Of Five Rings" however. A 17th C Japanese classic. Love Miso x -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.13 11:04:00 -
[29]
Quote: Anyone in the UK been watching "Time Commando's"?
Josh - im uk and have not heard of this? what is it sweetie? -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.13 11:50:00 -
[30]
Time Commanders is an historical interactive show, a game of strategy where you can enter a computer generated virtual world and take on, in battle, the greatest generals from the past in an attempt to overturn history, in a 21st century battlefield command centre.
It's pretty interesting stuff.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
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Damaclease
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Posted - 2003.09.13 12:02:00 -
[31]
2 great books t0rfi But have you read any Iain M.Banks (notice th M to seperate this from his non-SciFi work) the idea of teh culture could very well fit into the Jove story line some of his best 1s Player of Games FeerSum Endjiin (not for the dyslexic surprisingly enough with the phonetic spelling he uses in sections ) Excession
Dama
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.09.13 13:16:00 -
[32]
I would of thought the Marquis de Sade and his friends would have far more relevence to EVE... I didn't know "Sun Tzu" (mmisspelled or not) knew anything about lagging people out with drones to win fights...then again the Dalai Lama plays Sim-City... learn a new thing everyday.
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Azure Skyclad
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Posted - 2003.09.13 13:45:00 -
[33]
Quote: Time Commanders is an historical interactive show, a game of strategy where you can enter a computer generated virtual world and take on, in battle, the greatest generals from the past in an attempt to overturn history, in a 21st century battlefield command centre.
It's pretty interesting stuff.
Watched this the other night. Roman Empire, under Paulinus *i think* (The players) crushing the Celtic Tribal Rebellion under Boudica.
Players messed up baaaaaad and basically reversed the historical outcome. Romans got their skirts handed to them.
Well worth watching for anyone in the UK. Very entertaining La Maison de tous Les Plaisirs Star Fraction http://www.voodoorockers.co.uk/ |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.09.13 13:58:00 -
[34]
Quote: I would also add to that "The Book Of Five Rings" by Miyamoto Mushashi. An excellent contemplation of the role of the samurai swordsmen in warfare, with some excellent edicts and meditations on the art of tactical warfare. It is a core text for all Naginata pilots.
Is that the one with Frodo in? -------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode <Stavros> was a honda gold wing <Ak-Gara> hah <Stavros> |
SpawnOfEvil
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Posted - 2003.09.13 15:53:00 -
[35]
You have to read some of Douglas Adams works. Great stuff.
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Erick Thakrar
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Posted - 2003.09.13 16:02:00 -
[36]
Carl Von Clausewitz, while being an excellent tactician of his time suffered from the same problems that most Western leaders suffer from. It is a good text, but Sun Tzu offer a significantly more flexible approach. This has been proven time and time again. The reason Germany lost in WWI was mainly because of their adherence to the Prussian style of warfare. The Allied forces also relied on traditional western warfare, a war of attrition, for far too long which is one of the main reasons that so many lives were lost. When Allied commanders started employing principles advocated in Sun Tzu's texts the tide of battle turned fairly quickly. I can recommend The Art of Modern Warfare by Mark Mcneilly. It contains the full text of the Art of War and a large amount of examples of historical conflicts where the principles in The Art of War had a strong part in winning the battle. Comparisons range from pre-roman era battles to Desert Storm. A good read.
Miso, pray tell. What kind of Kung Fu do you teach? Ya Hya Chouhada!!! |
Erick Thakrar
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Posted - 2003.09.13 16:04:00 -
[37]
Oops, forgot to mention. Book of Five Rings is a highly recommended read. Excellent stuff. And I can also recommend the Dune series. A more twisted web of political machinations and deeply hidden motivations is hard to find. Also has a heavy message about the importance of ecology. Ya Hya Chouhada!!! |
Karash Amerius
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Posted - 2003.09.13 16:48:00 -
[38]
"The first rule of jungle warfare is to obviously get rid of the jungle."
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Rath Amon
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Posted - 2003.09.14 08:12:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Rath Amon on 14/09/2003 08:13:47 Just wanted to add that the best translation of "The Art of War" in my opinion is by Samuel B. Griffith (ISBN 0-19-501476-6). Extremely detailed background and copious footnotes plus the most 'modern' translation I've seen.
I'll also add my support for Victor Harris' translation of "A Book of Five Rings (Go Rin No Sho)" (ISBN 0-517-41528-3). Along with Gia-Fu Feng's excellent translation of "Tao Te Ching" (ISBN 0-394-71833-X) these three books are a good introduction to Oriental philosophy.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.14 11:28:00 -
[40]
Quote: Miso, pray tell. What kind of Kung Fu do you teach?
Southern Praying Mantis my dear. Very unusual style, not many genuine practitioners out there. If you are in the UK, the UK rep is Sifu Paul Whitrod, Australia, Sifu Paul Brennan. End of plug! :)
-------------------------------------------- Dead
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Reverend Mother
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Posted - 2003.09.14 12:16:00 -
[41]
these people recommending "the best translation"
have you read the original to be able to judge a translation ? and if so, why bother with translations if you can
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Li ShangYin
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Posted - 2003.09.15 08:45:00 -
[42]
The best translation is perhaps the wrong description, it's more the one you like the most. There are sometimes significant differences in various versions, ranging from different words to whole parts translated with a completely different meaning and sentence structure. Often there isn't even a real original available(Sun Tzu), but indeed fragments and parts found in various archeological digs and tombs which can be dated to around the time when the actual text most likely first appeared. As those parts and fragments most likely aren't the actual text anyways but something that a witness or the son or grandson of someone who knew the real details wrote the question of what is the real Sun Tzu becomes intresting.
The Denma group basically assumes the Art Of War is not a pure book written by 1 person with the name of Sun Tzu, but a collective effort of some generals around 2500 years ago to collect their basic and common practices so they can be tought to new generals, Sun Tzu if he existed would then be the first of those generals who started with it, along with most likely his son and other people closeby. Also the idea of written text at that time is somewhat vague, most likely the first versions of the Sun Tzu were told and not written down anyways.
Anyhow that's where the differences in translations and versions spring into place. Different signs in later written versions can be read one way or the other, add to that the option of actually translating a 3rd or 4th modified and edited version of the original text. Different tranlators to the english will also use different approaches to the ambiguous words and parts, some trying to stick to the exact wording in those parts if possible, others trying to make it into what makes sense.
My favoritism of the Denma group's translation also comes from the way it was made. Not one guy translating but several different people, anyways they have their own website at http://www.victoryoverwar.com/ which goes into more detail on how they made it happen.
As for the Book of 5 Rings, it's alot more recent and as such it's also easier to translate, the question of which version one wants to read if you don't have good japanese skills thus is more a question of what else comes along with the book. I've seen some barebone versions which contain very little other information and then there are those 500 page mammuth epic type translations which deliver a full history and god knows what else along with the actual text.
___________________________________ A spring day at the edge of the world. On the edge of the world once more the day slants. The oriole cries, as though it were its own tears Which damp even the topmost blossoms on the tree.
-- Li Shang-yin, Exile, ninth century A.D. |
ChironV
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Posted - 2003.09.15 10:12:00 -
[43]
One good series the devs should read is Mutineers' Moon followed by Armaggedon Inheritance. Author David Weber. Now those ships in the series are what I would love to see in Eve.
________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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Tri HD
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Posted - 2003.09.15 13:15:00 -
[44]
[ego]I'd kick Sun Tzu's ass anytime[/ego]
What would that make me?
'telefonkiosk' - it just popped into my head again all the sudden... |
MSDborris
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Posted - 2003.09.15 13:33:00 -
[45]
Time Commanders is an historical interactive show, a game of strategy where you can enter a computer generated virtual world and take on, in battle, the greatest generals from the past in an attempt to overturn history, in a 21st century battlefield command centre.
It's pretty interesting stuff. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Watched this the other night. Roman Empire, under Paulinus *i think* (The players) crushing the Celtic Tribal Rebellion under Boudica.
Players messed up baaaaaad and basically reversed the historical outcome. Romans got their skirts handed to them.
Well worth watching for anyone in the UK. Very entertaining
Time commandos is on thursday night in the uk at 8pm on bbc2
***** " MSDborris, " Baka!, Hentia! "
***** |
Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.09.15 13:51:00 -
[46]
If you are interested in the religious aspects of war at least form a legitamacy point of view. I would suggest reading many of the Papal Bulls from the middle ages. Particularly applicable to the Amarr v Minmatar area.
Miso what do you think of kick boxing? I just started and so far I love it. The book of the five rings is magnificent btw.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.15 13:59:00 -
[47]
Quote: Miso what do you think of kick boxing? I just started and so far I love it. The book of the five rings is magnificent btw.
Kickboxing is a great form of exercise and a great sport, but no good for use in the street really. Will give you a bit of an edge in a street fight, but the problem with sport styles is you pad up and therefore practitioners are not used to taking blows - ie ur not conditioned. Also, you punch with a fist - inside of a glove that is fine, but do that on the street and you'll end up with a broken hand!
You could do some extra conditioning to work on your arms and hands so you get used to clashing skin on skin, so to speak. That would be very useful in a fight, beleive me -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.15 14:19:00 -
[48]
Quote: Carl Von Clausewitz, while being an excellent tactician of his time suffered from the same problems that most Western leaders suffer from. It is a good text, but Sun Tzu offer a significantly more flexible approach. This has been proven time and time again. The reason Germany lost in WWI was mainly because of their adherence to the Prussian style of warfare. The Allied forces also relied on traditional western warfare, a war of attrition, for far too long which is one of the main reasons that so many lives were lost. When Allied commanders started employing principles advocated in Sun Tzu's texts the tide of battle turned fairly quickly. I can recommend The Art of Modern Warfare by Mark Mcneilly. It contains the full text of the Art of War and a large amount of examples of historical conflicts where the principles in The Art of War had a strong part in winning the battle. Comparisons range from pre-roman era battles to Desert Storm. A good read.
Miso, pray tell. What kind of Kung Fu do you teach?
Whilst I haven't actually read Clausewitz so I can't comment on the specifics of that; The Art of War's a great book and well worth a read. However, I would take 'after the fact' applications of texts to winners and losers a bit like the books that do the same with Nostradmus etc. Interesting, but not suitable for saying that one set of writings is 'better' than another. You could equally apply Sun Tzu to the German war effort if you're selective in what you choose.
It would be hard to recommend a better pair of books than the original two listed though due to the ease with which they can be applied to numerous situations.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Beringe
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Posted - 2003.09.15 14:57:00 -
[49]
"The Prince" online
There are probably others, if you don't like the way they present the text here (with emphasis and such). ------------------------------------------- "My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.15 15:14:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Quote: Miso what do you think of kick boxing? I just started and so far I love it. The book of the five rings is magnificent btw.
Kickboxing is a great form of exercise and a great sport, but no good for use in the street really. Will give you a bit of an edge in a street fight, but the problem with sport styles is you pad up and therefore practitioners are not used to taking blows - ie ur not conditioned. Also, you punch with a fist - inside of a glove that is fine, but do that on the street and you'll end up with a broken hand!
You could do some extra conditioning to work on your arms and hands so you get used to clashing skin on skin, so to speak. That would be very useful in a fight, beleive me
So kicking trees and hitting boards should help non? Kill those nasty nerve endings... :)
Also: What martial art(s) do you practice?
About Post:
Il Principe is truly excellent, I need to get on top of the Lao Tzu book.
----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" ----------------------------------------------- |
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.15 15:15:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Daesdemona on 15/09/2003 15:15:37 Il Principe
----------------------------------------------- Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?" Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't" ----------------------------------------------- |
Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2003.09.15 15:27:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Jim Hawkins on 15/09/2003 15:28:33 Well, it's all about war and power isn't it. I would recommend that you people read something like 'The Little Book of Calm' and chill out for a bit.
If only we could all get along like good little boys and girls, the world would be a much better place.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.15 15:28:00 -
[53]
Kicking trees is not adviseable! No, best to hit a live human opponent for conditioning. Start of nice and soft, and then finish off hard... and the same for the conditioning too. -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Dominik
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Posted - 2003.09.15 18:56:00 -
[54]
I'm also a fan of Go Rin No Sho (Book of Five Rings) by Miyamoto Musashi.
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Sylvius
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Posted - 2003.09.15 19:48:00 -
[55]
Okay, for suggesting that ANYONE read Hegel, Karif is a bad, bad man. Hegel is easily one of the two hardest to understand of all western philosophers (the other being Heidegger).
For a solid philosophical grounding, I'd much rather everyone read On Certainty by Ludwig Wittgenstein, though like all German philosophers the English translations are a bit sloppy (given the differing levels of lingustic precision from topic to topic between the two languages)
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Hematic
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:23:00 -
[56]
Doesn't the base of what they say simply:
Know the variables you're dealing with?
In an online game I hate to say it but the variables are finite and easily grasped by about the second week.
Of course the game designers see that people have mastered their variables within short time, created manuals and references for others, then in an 'act of balancing' they skew the variables so they must be re-learned.
They repeat this vicious cycle until people are just sick of having the very physics of the game change each patch.
Of course that would assume there is actually competition in this game. There isn't.
Money? Well the single most expensive / money making endeavor is a miner II BP in the game. Hmmm and how were these distributed? Which chapter of your beloved common sense texts describes how to acquire them? Exactly none.
So one can listen to torifranz or illian about sun tzu this and that, but the reality is this:
If you know the vairables in which you work, you will find that work much easier to succeed at. Wow revelation.
On the flip side, success in this game is measured how? Oh right it isn't.
Fun in this game would be a little less BS GM interference by handing out things like miner II BPs and truly give everyone a chance at them by making them the rarest of drops from all different parts of the eve universe.
Face it torifranz, no one can "compete" in this game as long as people like you upset game balance by handing out overpowered items to a select few.
Sorry to be such an adam henry, but this game isn't about competition and you ought to know that. It now belongs to the other definition of game which is something amusing to pass the time.
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Sylvius
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:36:00 -
[57]
Actually, I would prefer that new technology like the Miner 2 be distributed through research - not drops. It seems unlikely that the pirates have a well-developed industrial infrastructure necessary to design cutting-edge tech.
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Georg Inekn
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:40:00 -
[58]
Here's another title that may be of interest to anyone who's recently been podded, as I know that can be a depressing event in a pilot's life.
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.09.15 20:47:00 -
[59]
I'm kinda into global politics:
The Prize:: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money & Power
The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Karif
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Posted - 2003.09.15 21:32:00 -
[60]
Okay, for suggesting that ANYONE read Hegel, Karif is a bad, bad man. Hegel is easily one of the two hardest to understand of all western philosophers
Yes, I inappropriately edited out the "If you have a few years to spend" part. It is certainly not a walk in the park, but the Lord/Bondsman section is relatively short and isn't that difficult to understand once you get past the idea of essentiality, and is certainly relevant to the whole Amarr/Minmatar political disagreement.
Not related to the topic, but since CCP is an Icelandic corp, I suppose a plug for things like Snorri's Edda, The Poetic Edda, and The Saga of the Volsungs would be in order =============================== Deception + Information + Skill |
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.09.15 21:33:00 -
[61]
Noam Chomsky is always a good read. "Manufacturering consent" is indispensible. -------------------------------------------- Dead
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Darksheer
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Posted - 2003.09.15 21:58:00 -
[62]
for those wanting a truthful honest account of the soldier in the german military in ww2 i strongly reccomend "the forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sager
one of the best books i heard read in my life
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Grankor
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Posted - 2003.09.15 22:12:00 -
[63]
Quote: Edited by: Jade Constantine on 13/09/2003 02:04:32
Beyond these works though, I strongly advise anybody who hasn't already, read Frank Herbert's "Dune" series. The man is a great writer and a great thinker, and clearly knew more than most of us will ever know about the politics of spin and public relations in temperal and spiritual application.
Just think about this quote for a moment;
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true or false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are often full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.
The Open-Ended Proof from The Panoplia Prophetica, Children of Dune 244
I agree with you to a point on that, jade, Herbert had several great ideas and ways of pointing out the obivious that made any avid and attentive read go "damn". What he talked about in his book was great in theory, similar to another goverment already implimented and shown not to work: Communism. Its almost a monarchy, but not quite in that it deals directly with the economy. One controlling power or faction has always failed in the past, and that simply due to the human factor....... gads....I went off topic with that one. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world |
Power
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Posted - 2003.09.15 23:53:00 -
[64]
Carz Von Clausewitz - On War.
A very intersting read, also deals with more 'Modern' aspects of warfare.
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