Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 36 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Chihiro Chugakusei
Traveler's accomodation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? |
Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
150
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
BECAUSE YOUR FACE!
I often wonder the same thing. It's probably a result of the HTFU attitude predominant in EVE. You spend so much time being hostile, preachy or distrustful in game that it carries over to the forums. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2647
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because people are in general, rabbits. They tend to like to cluster up into like minded groups.
A while ago, a particular group decided that they didn't want the playstyle of another group to exist anymore. So they began a forum campaign to effect change to have the offending playstyle nerfed.
And it happened. It keeps on happening. And people noticed that, they noticed that CCP caved to forum whining and set the precedent that they will do it again (and they recently have).
Hence the hostility. Because if you're making a "suggestion", it's damn near a guarantee that it's a nerf to someone else's playstyle. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
151
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Plus, let's not forget that people with negative opinions always tend to be much more vocal than others that prefer to just tacitly agree. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |
Chihiro Chugakusei
Traveler's accomodation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thats all true. Thanks for the information and sympathy. I will try and bear with it in the future.
|
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's called talking crap in real life is dangerous, while here people can hide behind their toon and be tough with out having the possibility of repercussions |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Because people are in general, rabbits.
Yeah. Rabbits are extremely hateful, negative and hostile creatures. |
Marsha Mallow
63
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? Same. But what can you expect in a cold, dark universe? Tbf other gaming forums are just as bad, and don't even get me started on shitbook - forums just represent the gobby minority. You have to look carefully past the attitude and judge the argument and tone more here, and is that really a bad thing?
I try to be nice on the forums but am a gleeful monster IRL and ingame btw. It's amusing how the reverse is true for the majority - |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19572
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
They forget the GÇ£GGÇ¥ part of MMORPG. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2649
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Because people are in general, rabbits. Yeah. Rabbits are extremely hateful, negative and hostile creatures.
My grandparents had a farm. They said they never had issues with their dog getting the chickens, but that if a chicken got into the rabbit pen on accident, the rabbits would kill it. Heck, they'd kill their own young sometimes, who the hell knew why.
Fluffy bunnies and cuddle-ness is a particular conceit of the mass marketing culture. Rabbits are some of the most xenophobic creatures on the planet. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
|
Chihiro Chugakusei
Traveler's accomodation
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? Same. But what can you expect in a cold, dark universe? Tbf other gaming forums are just as bad, and don't even get me started on shitbook - forums just represent the gobby minority. You have to look carefully past the attitude and judge the argument and tone more here, and is that really a bad thing? I try to be nice on the forums but am a gleeful monster IRL and ingame btw. It's amusing how the reverse is true for the majority
I'll try and do like you say. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1226
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
In GD, people start a lot of stupid threads about stupid crap. I personally feel obligated to advise them on just how stupid their crap is.
In the other forums, you won't see as much of this kind of response. Mostly, because people starting threads in other forums are posting more intelligently. While not every post in every other forum is a sparkling example of good posting, the ratio of good posts to bad is much greater elsewhere than it is here.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mixu Paatelainen
Brutal Deluxe.
81
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Squeaky wheel gets the grease. This forum's no worse than others. |
Marsha Mallow
63
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I'll try and do like you say. Don't take it personally, it's just a game.
Also mentally visualise whoever you are speaking to as an impotent naked "small person" furiously keyboard mashing and covering their monitor with saliva. Mental imagery ftw! - |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2649
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. In GD, people start a lot of stupid threads about stupid crap. I personally feel obligated to advise them on just how stupid their crap is. In the other forums, you won't see as much of this kind of response. Mostly, because people starting threads in other forums are posting more intelligently. While not every post in every other forum is a sparkling example of good posting, the ratio of good posts to bad is much greater elsewhere than it is here.
You need to add "except F&I". F&I is inarguably worse than here. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Ai Shun
1058
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 19:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
Amusingly, you revert to profanity in asking your question about why the forum is a hostile, negative place filled with insults. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1228
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. In GD, people start a lot of stupid threads about stupid crap. I personally feel obligated to advise them on just how stupid their crap is. In the other forums, you won't see as much of this kind of response. Mostly, because people starting threads in other forums are posting more intelligently. While not every post in every other forum is a sparkling example of good posting, the ratio of good posts to bad is much greater elsewhere than it is here. You need to add "except F&I". F&I is inarguably worse than here.
Fixed.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
169
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
F&I is awful, but that's largely because people spew out the same terribly bad, poorly thought out ideas on a regular basis, without even searching to see how many other threads filled with "Why this is bad and you are bad for not searching" there have been before.
And poor planning, poorly thought out ideas endlessly repeated are deserving of at least a moderate degree of caustic scorn.
For example, I just got done posting a reply to a F&I thread proposing a massive sov overhaul, posted by someone who was unaware that SOV requirements were no longer tied to POS's.
So if F&I seems like it's filled with angry people shooting down ideas left and right, remember that it's typically like that for good reasons. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:My grandparents had a farm. They said they never had issues with their dog getting the chickens, but that if a chicken got into the rabbit pen on accident, the rabbits would kill it. Heck, they'd kill their own young sometimes, who the hell knew why.
Fluffy bunnies and cuddle-ness is a particular conceit of the mass marketing culture. Rabbits are some of the most xenophobic creatures on the planet.
Well attacking the dog would be potentially suicidal. And Im sure a rabbit gets the same treatment if it errs into the hen house, and at the least a swift pecking from the rooster. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
3795
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Threads like this cause troll rage. If you feed the trolls, they just breed like rabbits and multiply.
Thanks a lot, OP. You've just continued the cycle.
I hope you're happy now. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
|
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tippia wrote:They forget the GÇ£GGÇ¥ part of MMORPG.
I don't think you believe that given the amount of time you waste proving otherwise. - MMORPJ
http://www.xkcd.com/386/ |
stoicfaux
4145
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 20:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
It's easier to hurt someone's feeling than it is to actually win, i.e. EVE players are a lazy bunch.
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
13937
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 21:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
Sometimes people here can be nice. But my experience is that negativity begets negativity.
1 Kings 12:11
|
AnotherUseless Alt
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 21:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
You can't have a game that appeals to the lowest types of humanity, and expect anything but what you normally get. "Self help is all in your head" |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16786
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 21:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:In GD, people start a lot of stupid threads about stupid crap. I personally feel obligated to advise them on just how stupid their crap is.
In the other forums, you won't see as much of this kind of response. Mostly, because people starting threads in other forums are posting more intelligently. While not every post in every other forum is a sparkling example of good posting, the ratio of good posts to bad is much greater elsewhere than it is here.
You need to add "except F&I". F&I is inarguably worse than here. Without a doubt. Posting the same old and tired idea, that was posted only a day or so ago. Week in, week out.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
3796
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 21:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
You could offer a billion isk to everyone to x up and you'd still be trolled.
X
Send me 1b, watch and see what happens, for science. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
djentropy Ovaert
Crazy Bird Inc.
151
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 21:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Your post sucks and I HATE YOU. |
Aiwha
Trans Secunda Nulli Secunda
713
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 22:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
None of us actually play EVE and we're jealous of those who still gather enjoyment from the game. We're winning the war if it says so on CAOD! -á
|
Bedwyr McNobbler
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 22:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Because being a douchebag is a valid playstyle in EvE and actively encouraged by CCP, the forums therefore represent the game quite effectively. I even came across a mission series highlighting the different douchebag (and the mission giver used that term) tactics.
Just remember that these forums allow idiots to act out their internet-hardman fantasies that if they tried in real life would land them in their local A+E in very short order. |
Silvara Nocturn
Nocturn Industries
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 23:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Everything constructive has already been said a thousand times, so your left with snark and trolling.
fresh and exciting topics are very rare. |
|
Felicity Love
Whore and Peace Forsaken Asylum
1535
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 23:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
This is EVE.
What part of that don't you get ?
OH... sorry.
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 00:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Because people are in general, rabbits. They tend to like to cluster up into like minded groups.
A while ago, a particular group decided that they didn't want the playstyle of another group to exist anymore. So they began a forum campaign to effect change to have the offending playstyle nerfed.
And it happened. It keeps on happening. And people noticed that, they noticed that CCP caved to forum whining and set the precedent that they will do it again (and they recently have).
Hence the hostility. Because if you're making a "suggestion", it's damn near a guarantee that it's a nerf to someone else's playstyle.
this
Most of the posters here are forum alts with an ulterior motive.
Despite claims that EVE is a sandbox, if anything CCP are actually MORE likely to interfere in the game to "balance" 0.0 wars or tournament play or in-game economic issues in response to player complaints than the devs in virtually any other game.
Sandbox simply means minimal PvE pre-created content, it does NOT exclude dev intervention in the game as a result of forum whining and complaints. |
Zander Kumamato
Madz Legion Madz Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 00:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
The thing that gets my rocks off is those that think the moral compass is separated when you're playing and when you're not for your actions against someone else. "It's just a game man, That allows me to be a jerk" |
Grainsalt
While in Empire Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
179
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 00:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Rabbits have long to be known as one of natures most deadliest of creatures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5wmw_Ro4pM |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1058
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 01:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Agondray wrote:It's called talking crap in real life is dangerous, while here people can hide behind their toon and be tough with out having the possibility of repercussions I actually try and be more polite on the forums than in real life.
I got into alot of fights as a kid.
like, enough that by high school people were telling kids who didnt know me to not start one because i'd take it too far.
I at least try and be helpful and point out sensible things on the forums though. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
1455
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 01:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
v0v
Never noticed it. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
171
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 01:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:v0v
Never noticed it.
That's because members of CVA kind of need to be have a thick skin considering all the **** CVA gets for their policies. Now if even you start feeling it's a negative and hostile place, things may have completely devolved into chaos and anarchy.
But hey, love you CVA guys.....maybe.. |
Jasmine Panzer
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 01:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Silvara Nocturn wrote:Everything constructive has already been said a thousand times, so your left with snark and trolling.
fresh and exciting topics are very rare.
^^ this, mostly. And btw OP, your topic isn't particularly fresh/exciting either. |
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
378
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 02:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think this image sums it up nicely. |
SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
170
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 02:19:00 -
[40] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
What did you post tho? Was it a grr goons post? Miners need protection post? I mean if you avoid the things most get upset about you won't get yelled at. Blue
|
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
32
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
32
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
well I meant to click edit and quoted myself |
Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
833
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:BECAUSE YOUR FACE!
I often wonder the same thing. It's probably a result of the HTFU attitude predominant in EVE. You spend so much time being hostile, preachy or distrustful in game that it carries over to the forums.
i agree. Sins there are games like MOBA aka LoL/dota 2/Smite and more the are ridicules offense communities in that kind f game some of them take it with them in other games.... like eve |
Sylveria Relden
Spartan Shipyards THE H0NEYBADGER
18
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
They weren't held enough as children? Who knows?
Haters are gonna hate- easier to destroy than it is to create. You must be THIS tall to use the "I WIN" button. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2536
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one.
You know, you come across as exactly the kind of person the OP is on about. Negative and hostile to the bone. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Chihiro Chugakusei
Traveler's accomodation
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. Amusingly, you revert to profanity in asking your question about why the forum is a hostile, negative place filled with insults.
I didn't direct my profanity at anyone in particular, or even at you. I have not been hostile, or hypocritical. I have to say that there is difference between expressing frustration, and belittling or slandering someone, or in my case, following me through all my posts and talking ****, as one person has done. |
Chihiro Chugakusei
Traveler's accomodation
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sylveria Relden wrote:They weren't held enough as children? Who knows?
Haters are gonna hate- easier to destroy than it is to create.
I agree. It seems like some of the 'offenders' have just perfected the art of shooting down other people's ideas. They offer nothing themselves though in terms of new topics or ideas.
Anyhow. Rather than QQ any more than I already have, I will just try to get with the program and ignore them, or try and take actual criticism if there is any to be had.
|
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
993
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:40:00 -
[48] - Quote
How many forums have you posted this on. Like every MMO forum? This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
|
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
174
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think a lot of the perceived hostility depends on how well you follow the expectations of the forum and it's subsections.
OP would probably consider me an angry, hostile person, on the basis of how I have responded to all of his Features & Ideas threads. I personally don't consider myself hostile, I am quite a friendly person in game, in person, and on coms.
But when you place an idea onto a public forum dedicated to discussion, peer review, and finding everything possible that is wrong with a proposed idea in order to refine it to a workable state, then repeatedly posting rant threads about how something needs to change because you don't like it, or because you think it's OP, you will get you nothing but the unending scorn and ridicule of the community.
Because that's how we weed the workable and potentially usable ideas from the awful, ranting, only my idea is the right one threads.
As for the rest of you who encounter hostility outside the F & I subsection, yeah, sorry, the eve playerbase are a wee bit assholish. |
Chihiro Chugakusei
Traveler's accomodation
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 03:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:How many forums have you posted this on. Like every MMO forum?
No... |
|
Ai Shun
1067
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 04:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I didn't direct my profanity at anyone in particular, or even at you. I have not been hostile, or hypocritical. I have to say that there is difference between expressing frustration, and belittling or slandering someone, or in my case, following someone through all their posts and talking ****, as one person has done today.
Sure, hence the amusement at it. I think if you're talking about a forum filled with happy thoughts and people engaging in civil conversation, dropping a small f-bomb in the middle of it probably doesn't contribute much to that land of ponies and unicorns and rainbows, but given what you say you've experience that is an understandable response. I'd have probably responded with a great deal more. Anyway, thanks for giving me the chance to smile at some of the random inanity on the internet today.
You can click where a players' name is underneath their portrait. That takes you to a drop down menu that allows you to hide posts. That way you can hide the posts of the person that was following you around and harassing you. Before doing that though, click the flag next to one of their posts and report the post if you believe it was OTT. (Keeping in mind that discourse here is ... a little more ... robust ... than in other forums) |
Chihiro Chugakusei
Traveler's accomodation
15
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 04:08:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I didn't direct my profanity at anyone in particular, or even at you. I have not been hostile, or hypocritical. I have to say that there is difference between expressing frustration, and belittling or slandering someone, or in my case, following someone through all their posts and talking ****, as one person has done today. Sure, hence the amusement at it. I think if you're talking about a forum filled with happy thoughts and people engaging in civil conversation, dropping a small f-bomb in the middle of it probably doesn't contribute much to that land of ponies and unicorns and rainbows, but given what you say you've experience that is an understandable response. I'd have probably responded with a great deal more. Anyway, thanks for giving me the chance to smile at some of the random inanity on the internet today. You can click where a players' name is underneath their portrait. That takes you to a drop down menu that allows you to hide posts. That way you can hide the posts of the person that was following you around and harassing you. Before doing that though, click the flag next to one of their posts and report the post if you believe it was OTT. (Keeping in mind that discourse here is ... a little more ... robust ... than in other forums)
Cool, thank you very much. I will do this. |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3085
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 05:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. Ok, gotta stop you there and turn on my red light, or so to speak.
What does your theory make of roleplayers then?
Or writers in general who can convey "monster" characters?
And take it a step further, what does it make of actors in the real world even?
I like a lot of your posts, despite disagreeing with most of them, as you've got a ton of passion and insight that will serve you really well when you eventually find your niche in EVE (I'm left feeling you're floundering looking for an outlet or purpose ingame?), but right now it's more like a dog on heat which has broken off it's chain.
Not that that's always a bad thing either though...
/Red light off Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
375
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 05:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
To the original post:
Sometimes it's more fun to be naughty than nice
If only I could convince my wife of that. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 07:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
Eve is a very good approximation of real life. Without the ability to actually buy anything nice you would buy in real life if you got rich. So people get bitter over the time.. In after the lock :P -á - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
176
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 07:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
The forum is also highly negative in response to negativity.
Yes the entire F&I forum (including myself heavily) jumped on the OP's ass and drowned his ideas in a storm of negativity and angry comments.
That being said, the exact same thing happens to each and every person who presents ideas without reasoning and with grand "Of course I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is bad" statements, refuses to listen to any feedback, insists on game changes without evidence or support, and insists that anyone with differing opinions is "Just making excuses" for things he thinks are overpowered. Not to mention starting rant threads on topics and then preemptively calling anyone who disagrees with him terrible in the original post.
What he got in community hate and flaming, he had coming. |
Garia666
CyberShield Inc Triumvirate.
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 07:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ever since the goons arrived EVE and the forums went to ****.. however its sattisfying to kill em, and that keeps me happy :) |
Grunanca
Doughboys Shadow Cartel
155
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 07:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
While I agree with you that its wierd people are so negative all the time, I disagree with it being bad in EVE compared to other games. What I saw back when playing Starwars Galaxies was 10 times worse than this. EVE is actually pretty good compared to the WOW and LOL forums. Glad im play neither of the games, because its amazing how many ways people there invent new sentences with the one goal of hating and flaming. |
Cassia Aetius
Antumbra Corporation
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 08:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Well, at least here you'll be trolled or ridiculed by someone smart enough to form a sentence.
In League of Legends it would look something like this, "omfg u fgt go **** uyo mom **** ass n***** get cancer!!!!!!!!!". |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2023
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 08:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. Sometimes people here can be nice. But my experience is that negativity begets negativity.
This is true for me.
I voted for Malcanis, little realizing that he would use his year on the CSM as a platform to spam the forms with negative, tough guy comments.
As a result, I wish him nothing but misfortune in the game.
At least I do on the odd occasion that I notice him in the forums nowadays. This is not a signature. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 08:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
Most people like to think of themselves as "good" people. Unfortunately, few of them actually are.
Prisons are full of people who still think they are "nice and good people".
Also, politeness=/=niceness. In no way shape or form.
The internet has gone a long way to show what true human nature is like. Probably most people reading this, think of themselves as "nice and good", as if it was some automatic granted thing, whereas actually they are probably harming and restricting people in their daily lives all the time.
People have wonderful ways of self-rationalising their destructive behavior towards others, and still maintaining the self-serving ego impression that "I'm a good person". |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2551
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:05:00 -
[62] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Probably most people reading this, think of themselves as "nice and good", as if it was some automatic granted thing, whereas actually they are probably harming and restricting people in their daily lives all the time.
Citation needed. Also, relevance to the topic. Because whether or not someone is a good person is irrelevant to their hostility or politeness on the internet. You said it yourself, politeness =/= niceness. What you left out is that the reverse applies also, hostility =/= badness.
I tend to find, though, that it is the cynics and pessimists, people who are essentially born haters, who expect everyone else to be bad people from the word go. This is natural human projection, of course, and it occurs all the time. Personally, I expect most people are good, based entirely on evolutionary imperative and considering that the human race still exists at all, such a thing requires members of that race to be good to one another for the majority. So your claim that most people are harmful to those around them doesn't stack up against the evidence to the contrary, and seems to me to be more an attitude of cynicism.
Hostility isn't bred of badness anymore than politeness is bred of goodness. That comes down entirely to attitude and respect. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1402
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:50:00 -
[63] - Quote
Because it's easy to be negative and non-constructive. Much easier to tear apart someone else's idea than defend your own. This isn't localized to these forums though. Look at the whole cable "news" thing. The quote in my signature sums it up pretty well. GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1735
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 10:51:00 -
[64] - Quote
We can't directly answer your question because we're not allowed to criticize the moderators.
What I can say is its something to do with the following:
I made a thread regarding how much money you can make in null doing combat sites. I was personally attacked, belittled, insulted, you name it. Nothing at all was done about that.
After 30 or so pages of being personally attacked and the like I then started to report each and every attack - one of the posts was "I don't care if this is a personal attack or not - you're a ******* idiot". That was 3 or 4 months ago and I still have not been contacted by the mod team regarding my reports, and I reported a lot of them. Not even a single personal attack was dealt with.
Nothing, nada. People will do what they can do if they can get away with it. Since they can get away with it without any punitive action being taken against them they will do so.
Ironically while "I don't care if this is a personal attack or not - you're a ******* idiot" was ignored, its likely this post I am typing will be moderated and removed... enjoy your forums :)
Infinity Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1248
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 11:05:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:In GD, people start a lot of stupid threads about stupid crap. I personally feel obligated to advise them on just how stupid their crap is.
In the other forums, you won't see as much of this kind of response. Mostly, because people starting threads in other forums are posting more intelligently. While not every post in every other forum is a sparkling example of good posting, the ratio of good posts to bad is much greater elsewhere than it is here.
You need to add "except F&I". F&I is inarguably worse than here. Without a doubt. Posting the same old and tired idea, that was posted only a day or so ago. Week in, week out.
Kaarous, Mag's,
You two couldn't be more right. I spent my evening and the morning before work looking through the threads over there and holy ****. To be absolutely fair, I feel sorry for people with good ideas. There is now no good place to post a thread on a good idea because their good idea just gets buried in a deluge of stupid, poorly conceived, and repetitious nonsense. It's like a parade of morons over there, one more idiotic than the last.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1737
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 11:14:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Mag's wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:In GD, people start a lot of stupid threads about stupid crap. I personally feel obligated to advise them on just how stupid their crap is.
In the other forums, you won't see as much of this kind of response. Mostly, because people starting threads in other forums are posting more intelligently. While not every post in every other forum is a sparkling example of good posting, the ratio of good posts to bad is much greater elsewhere than it is here.
You need to add "except F&I". F&I is inarguably worse than here. Without a doubt. Posting the same old and tired idea, that was posted only a day or so ago. Week in, week out. Kaarous, Mag's, You two couldn't be more right. I spent my evening and the morning before work looking through the threads over there and holy ****. To be absolutely fair, I feel sorry for people with good ideas. There is now no good place to post a thread on a good idea because their good idea just gets buried in a deluge of stupid, poorly conceived, and repetitious nonsense. It's like a parade of morons over there, one more idiotic than the last. It's interesting that some people feel they are entitled to abuse, insult and belittle other people because they feel they are the litmus test for "good ideas".
Its also interesting they're so arrogant and self important that they feel they have the right to belittle, insult and post offensively in breach of the terms and conditions of use of the forums.
Its also interesting they lack sufficient emotional self control to the extent they fail to post constructive criticism rather than be offensive, abusive and offensive.
Personally I'd love to go all full ****** like Kalrus and his friends but I have sufficient self control over my emotions to 1) not take anything personally even though its often very personal (like the guy inferring it'd be great if I died in real life) 2) realise going full ****** over a computer game is 100% stupid. Want to make billions a week solo running combat sites in null sec? -á Read my Exploratation Guide here -> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=309467 |
Harland White
The Konvergent League Sev3rance
170
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 11:31:00 -
[67] - Quote
(I posted this in another thread, this is a good place to post it too)
troll troll troll
irrelevant, obnoxious post
unmerited, sarcastic insult
i'm better than you
i know more than you
i think i'm witty and edgy
**** YOU for asking a question or creating a thread on these forums, **** YOU
i'm a miserable, pathetic, powerless kid in real life, i use this game and these forums to pretend like i'm cool somehow
/eveforums By their fruit you will recognize them. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
1780
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 12:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
Lack of empathy. Complete and utter absence of real, meaningful consequences. Psychological projection.
Take your pick. It's easy to be a jerk. It's even easier to be a jerk online.
The funny thing is it's infinitely easier not to be a jerk. You literally don't have to do anything. That's it. Yet, people still decide to put in that little bit of work to be jerks. Humans are a weird ass species... |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 12:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: I tend to find, though, that it is the cynics and pessimists, people who are essentially born haters, who expect everyone else to be bad people from the word go.
vs
Remiel Pollard wrote:I expect most people are good, based entirely on evolutionary imperative and considering that the human race still exists at all, such a thing requires members of that race to be good to one another for the majority.
Nice contradiction. So you make the claim that cynics and pessimists are "born haters", ergo: biologically predisposed to this (Citation needed), and in the next sentence that actually most people are good, from a biological and genetic basis from evolutionary imperative (Citation needed).
Furthermore, cynicism and pessimism are not "bad" behavior traits, nor reprehensible in any way shape or form, though you make the inane false implication that they would be. As if gullibility and optimism where somehow of superior moral quality.
No. Humans are the apex of the food chain on this planet, and have achieved that position through remorseless control of their environment and each other. And those families and individuals which have risen to positions of financial and social prominence, have done so through efficient exploitation and control of other humans around them. Situations of crisis demonstrate time and time again the essential predatory and opportunistic nature of humans. When faced with adversity, mankind turns on each other in a heartbeat. Everywhere, there is competition, for everything. The moral and legal guidelines of our society exist only to make it possible for us to co-exist in a stable society without having to constantly be wary of impending and imminent danger from every single individual or group around us. They have no intrinsic "natural" value whatsoever. The more severe the threat of danger, the further back the facade of social norms is repealed from most people, all the way down until only your family and ultimately yourself are all that matter. In disasters people trample children and each other underfoot.
Furthermore, there is no evidence that whether an individual is good or bad (which are subjective moral values anyways) is genetic.
You are a prime example of what I was talking about, btw. A person who holds it as automatic and "granted" that they are good, by default. Its exactly these kinds of people who do untold harm to others without ever actually introspecting on the nature of their own bias and how unkind, unjust and cruel they actually are towards others. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
194
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:09:00 -
[70] - Quote
Based on the last 20-30 posts you've made, it looks like you've been suggesting changes to core game mechanics that many players don't see as a necessity. Then you argue with them. You also tend to argue from an emotional perspective and for some of your ideas (like the Rokh change) it doesn't look like you did a lot of research (CCPs long term development plan).
So, two reasons the forum has been hostile to you: 1. Eve is full of elitists that expect you to have a significant amount of research and data to back up what you are saying. They also expect it to be documented. You'll see that in posts where Dev Blogs are referenced and you are disagreeing with a game direction choice - people are willing to argue the point without getting nasty (generally). 2. Some of the gents you've been arguing with view disagreement as a personal attack, and then you also respond with a personal attack. This generally serves to devolve the argument into baseless name calling and stick to the status quo.
Hope that helps. |
|
Batelle
HOMELE55
1878
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 14:16:00 -
[71] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
Stop posting terrible ideas in F&I then. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Your Dad Naked
State War Academy Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:04:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. In GD*, people start a lot of stupid threads about stupid crap. I personally feel obligated to advise them on just how stupid their crap is. In the other forums*, you won't see as much of this kind of response. Mostly, because people starting threads in other forums are posting more intelligently. While not every post in every other forum is a sparkling example of good posting, the ratio of good posts to bad is much greater elsewhere than it is here. *ED: Also F&I because Kaarous said so. Stop lying Kimmi, you're nice enough, even when responding to autistically motivated ideas.
But yeah... OP... maybe one day they'll clean this place up a bit. It seems they've started, at least. I haven't seen "Unsuccesful at Everything" post in a very long time, for instance. While that makes me a bit sad (he was hilarious), he pretty much disobeyed every forum rule besides personal insults. So maybe they are indeed cleaning house finally. |
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
232
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
The majority of the negativity is from 5 posters. Once you ignore them, the forums are way more positive and helpful.
The issue is that those same 5 posters spew their negative and confrontational garbage into every thread. They tear apart every post (especially new posters) into little segments so they can troll, bash and respond out of context repeatedly in efforts to shut down any decent dialogue.
Just ignore those 5 posters. Once you do, the forums become a decent place to discuss the game. |
Altessa Post
Midnight special super sexy
84
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
Really? Everybody is always super nice with me. It must be you then...
On the internet, you can be whatever you want to be. It is amazing that so many people chose to be stupid. |
Miichael Epic
The Neutral Zone
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
Its SMALL D!CK SYNDROME.
Period. That's what it is...people are so devoid of any common decency online because they can be billy badasses and hide behind their computer screen and you can't do anything about it. They know that. They embrace that. Its vital to who they are.
It doesn't matter if you're a decorated war veteran, a highly respected police officer, a buddhist monk, a nun or even a member of the peacecorp.
It doesn't even matter if you're a nice respectable person who tries his very best in life. The insecurity of these people will override any of that. They are insecure, whiny and tiny d!ck syndrome bearing losers.
They are also cowardly. I promise you that they would not be that way to your face. They would especially not be that way to your face with a carry permit and a firearm strapped to your side. That's the way they think.
Me? I'm a nice guy. I'll help you any way I can even if we've never talked before. If you were broke down on the side of the road, I'd stop and help you. If you were hungry and had no money for food, I'd buy you something to eat.
So I'm not going to be mean, rude, hateful or nasty to you on the forum. I don't suffer from small d!ck syndrome. So don't let these people get to you man...this is all they have. They get to be billy badasses online and that's how they grind through their grueling, meager miserable and pathetic lives.
(watch...someone will quote this post and attempt to refute it because their teeny, tiny, smidgeon of glory pressed up against their jeans will command them to do so screaming AVENGE ME! AVEEEEEENGEEEE MEEEEEE!) |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3101
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
Miichael Epic wrote:Iwatch...someone will quote this post and attempt to refute it because their teeny, tiny, smidgeon of glory pressed up against their jeans will command them to do so screaming AVENGE ME! AVEEEEEENGEEEE MEEEEEE!)
Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2023
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
Because they want to, and because they can. This is not a signature. |
RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
221
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:43:00 -
[78] - Quote
Absolute power, corrupts absolutley. |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3101
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:53:00 -
[79] - Quote
Quote:Why are many people on these forums so negative, and so hostile? Well after a bit of goofiness I thought I'd write a ... uhmm, serious reply.
This reply will be difficult to navigate considering rules against discussing moderation. But I guess even by saying that it gives you an idea where I'm headed ...
On forums people will behave however they're permitted to behave. Quite simple really in my belief. Infinity Ziona pretty much hit the nail on the head in a subtle way with her posts.
Is there an unusually high amount of hostile-exchanges across the EVE forums as compared to many other such MMOs? Yes, I believe there is, and it's one of the things I noticed very soon after beginning to play. Does that mean there are different kinds of people here than in other games? No, not necessarily at all. What about the ruleset, are there less rules here than in the communities of other such MMOs? No, the rules are pretty much standard.
So what is different? Quite simply it's the interpretation and application of those forum rules.
Now comes the part where it's hard to discuss that further without going into deleted-post territory, but I will say it's obvious that EVE is a much harsher, unforgiving game than others when we experience it in-game. This is part of it's charm and allure. I believe this is an atmosphere that CCP would likely hope extends to all parts of it's community, including the forum. I wouldn't be surprised at all if guidelines exist for those who moderate these forums instructing them to let "people sort each other out" instead of have a constant or pro-active moderator presence. And so in essence the sandbox extends to the forums too, for better or worse. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16790
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:55:00 -
[80] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. Indeed. When I play Hungry Hippo, it only goes to solidify the fact that I am fat and eat too much. When I play Operation, it shows my inclination towards cutting people open and playing with their insides. You simply do not want to know me when I play snakes and ladders, it's not pretty.
All in all, with each and every game I play, it only goes to show the dark side of my true personality.
Next week I R be mostly playing Risk and I shall rule the world. Muhahahaha
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
|
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
2810
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 17:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Most people like to think of themselves as "good" people. Unfortunately, few of them actually are.
Prisons are full of people who still think they are "nice and good people".
Also, politeness=/=niceness. In no way shape or form.
The internet has gone a long way to show what true human nature is like. Probably most people reading this, think of themselves as "nice and good", as if it was some automatic granted thing, whereas actually they are probably harming and restricting people in their daily lives all the time.
People have wonderful ways of self-rationalising their destructive behavior towards others, and still maintaining the self-serving ego impression that "I'm a good person". The paradox is that internet people will also donate huge amounts of time and skill to developing things like Firefox, GIMP, Wikipedia, etc. On the one had you have people being completely fearless arsehats on the internet, and on the other people being generous and altruistic. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1265
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 17:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
Miichael Epic wrote:Its SMALL D!CK SYNDROME.
Period. That's what it is...people are so devoid of any common decency online because they can be billy badasses and hide behind their computer screen and you can't do anything about it. They know that. They embrace that. Its vital to who they are.
It doesn't matter if you're a decorated war veteran, a highly respected police officer, a buddhist monk, a nun or even a member of the peacecorp.
It doesn't even matter if you're a nice respectable person who tries his very best in life. The insecurity of these people will override any of that. They are insecure, whiny and tiny d!ck syndrome bearing losers.
They are also cowardly. I promise you that they would not be that way to your face. They would especially not be that way to your face with a carry permit and a firearm strapped to your side. That's the way they think.
Me? I'm a nice guy. I'll help you any way I can even if we've never talked before. If you were broke down on the side of the road, I'd stop and help you. If you were hungry and had no money for food, I'd buy you something to eat.
So I'm not going to be mean, rude, hateful or nasty to you on the forum. I don't suffer from small d!ck syndrome. So don't let these people get to you man...this is all they have. They get to be billy badasses online and that's how they grind through their grueling, meager miserable and pathetic lives.
(watch...someone will quote this post and attempt to refute it because their teeny, tiny, smidgeon of glory pressed up against their jeans will command them to do so screaming AVENGE ME! AVEEEEEENGEEEE MEEEEEE!)
I have to refute this just out of spite.
Also my small manhood demands it!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 18:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its also interesting they're so arrogant and self important that they feel they have the right to belittle, insult and post offensively in breach of the terms and conditions of use of the forums.
It is also interesting how much free time Eve gives these people, that they have nothing better to do than scour the forums in search for suggestions to belittle.
RAIN Arthie wrote:Absolute power, corrupts absolutley.
Except these people have zero power, but they act as if they had some. In after the lock :P -á - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4367
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 20:35:00 -
[84] - Quote
aspergers Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1892
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 20:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
RAIN Arthie wrote:Absolute power, corrupts absolutley. As someone who regularly shoots down terrible threads on F&I I can confirm that it has granted me no special powers, thus my soul remains as pure as the driven snow. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Pew Terror
Green Associates
92
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 20:57:00 -
[86] - Quote
This is why. |
Winchester Steele
338
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:30:00 -
[87] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:Thats all true. Thanks for the information and sympathy. I will try and bear with it in the future.
I honestly don't find this community to be hostile at all. Sure shitposting is often nuked from orbit, just to be sure, but legitimate threads are often debated with mutual respect (well...mostly).
The problem with Eve-o is that people keep posting the same stupid crap over and over. If people just observed the following rules of eve-o, they might find that we forum folks aren't such a bad lot:
1. Grr goons is so 2012. Just stop. Yes they own New Eden, we know. Instead of making the 400,000th post about how much you hate goons, just use the search function and add your tears to the collective.
2. No. Ganking is not too easy. No it doesn't follow that the ganker is a psychopath in real. And no, not a single person here gives 2 sh*ts that you lost your 7th untanked hulk this week.
3. Drones are fine. HTFU.
4. WIS is dead. It doesn't matter what you think. It isn't happening.
I may have missed a rule or 2, but basically, by following these simple steps you will find that our community becomes a lot less negative and hostile. Enjoy! ... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2680
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:33:00 -
[88] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: I made a thread regarding how much money you can make in null doing combat sites. I was personally attacked, belittled, insulted, you name it. Nothing at all was done about that.
You were belittled because you lied through your crooked teeth on every sentence.
You were deliberately trying to mislead new players, which if it's not reportable, it certainly should be. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2684
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:37:00 -
[89] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Its also interesting they lack sufficient emotional self control to the extent they're unable to post constructive criticism and would rather be offensive and abusive.
Personally I'd love to go all full ****** like Kalrus.
Now that is hilarious. Especially since you used a word that breaks the forum rules, and is thus censored.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever encountered. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1287
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:38:00 -
[90] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:Thats all true. Thanks for the information and sympathy. I will try and bear with it in the future. I honestly don't find this community to be hostile at all. Sure shitposting is often nuked from orbit, just to be sure, but legitimate threads are often debated with mutual respect (well...mostly). The problem with Eve-o is that people keep posting the same stupid crap over and over. If people just observed the following rules of eve-o, they might find that we forum folks aren't such a bad lot: 1. Grr goons is so 2012. Just stop. Yes they own New Eden, we know. Instead of making the 400,000th post about how much you hate goons, just use the search function and add your tears to the collective. 2. No. Ganking is not too easy. No it doesn't follow that the ganker is a psychopath in real. And no, not a single person here gives 2 sh*ts that you lost your 7th untanked hulk this week. 3. Drones are fine. HTFU. 4. WIS is dead. It doesn't matter what you think. It isn't happening. I may have missed a rule or 2, but basically, by following these simple steps you will find that our community becomes a lot less negative and hostile. Enjoy!
I will give a big nod to this. +1 sir.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1287
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Its also interesting they lack sufficient emotional self control to the extent they're unable to post constructive criticism and would rather be offensive and abusive.
Personally I'd love to go all full ****** like Kalrus.
Now that is hilarious. Especially since you used a word that breaks the forum rules, and is thus censored. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever encountered.
Psychopath!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Winchester Steele
340
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:38:00 -
[92] - Quote
Miichael Epic wrote:Its SMALL D!CK SYNDROME.
Period. That's what it is...people are so devoid of any common decency online because they can be billy badasses and hide behind their computer screen and you can't do anything about it. They know that. They embrace that. Its vital to who they are.
It doesn't matter if you're a decorated war veteran, a highly respected police officer, a buddhist monk, a nun or even a member of the peacecorp.
It doesn't even matter if you're a nice respectable person who tries his very best in life. The insecurity of these people will override any of that. They are insecure, whiny and tiny d!ck syndrome bearing losers.
They are also cowardly. I promise you that they would not be that way to your face. They would especially not be that way to your face with a carry permit and a firearm strapped to your side. That's the way they think.
Me? I'm a nice guy. I'll help you any way I can even if we've never talked before. If you were broke down on the side of the road, I'd stop and help you. If you were hungry and had no money for food, I'd buy you something to eat.
So I'm not going to be mean, rude, hateful or nasty to you on the forum. I don't suffer from small d!ck syndrome. So don't let these people get to you man...this is all they have. They get to be billy badasses online and that's how they grind through their grueling, meager miserable and pathetic lives.
(watch...someone will quote this post and attempt to refute it because their teeny, tiny, smidgeon of glory pressed up against their jeans will command them to do so screaming AVENGE ME! AVEEEEEENGEEEE MEEEEEE!)
Are you a high-sec miner? Just curious.
(Protip: if you're posting a diatribe about people being d-bags on the forum, it usually helps your case to NOT be the biggest D-bag in the entire thread.) ... |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1287
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:43:00 -
[93] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Miichael Epic wrote:Its SMALL D!CK SYNDROME.
Period. That's what it is...people are so devoid of any common decency online because they can be billy badasses and hide behind their computer screen and you can't do anything about it. They know that. They embrace that. Its vital to who they are.
It doesn't matter if you're a decorated war veteran, a highly respected police officer, a buddhist monk, a nun or even a member of the peacecorp.
It doesn't even matter if you're a nice respectable person who tries his very best in life. The insecurity of these people will override any of that. They are insecure, whiny and tiny d!ck syndrome bearing losers.
They are also cowardly. I promise you that they would not be that way to your face. They would especially not be that way to your face with a carry permit and a firearm strapped to your side. That's the way they think.
Me? I'm a nice guy. I'll help you any way I can even if we've never talked before. If you were broke down on the side of the road, I'd stop and help you. If you were hungry and had no money for food, I'd buy you something to eat.
So I'm not going to be mean, rude, hateful or nasty to you on the forum. I don't suffer from small d!ck syndrome. So don't let these people get to you man...this is all they have. They get to be billy badasses online and that's how they grind through their grueling, meager miserable and pathetic lives.
(watch...someone will quote this post and attempt to refute it because their teeny, tiny, smidgeon of glory pressed up against their jeans will command them to do so screaming AVENGE ME! AVEEEEEENGEEEE MEEEEEE!) Are you a high-sec miner? Just curious. (Protip: if you're posting a diatribe about people being d-bags on the forum, it usually helps your case to NOT be the biggest D-bag in the entire thread.)
I am the biggest D-bag in this thread. Michael Epic said so. And my little manhood SCREAMS FOR VENGEANCE!!!!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:53:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. Indeed. When I play Hungry Hippo, it only goes to solidify the fact that I am fat and eat too much. When I play Operation, it shows my inclination towards cutting people open and playing with their insides. You simply do not want to know me when I play snakes and ladders, it's not pretty. All in all, with each and every game I play, it only goes to show the dark side of my true personality. Next week I R be mostly playing Risk and I shall rule the world. Muhahahaha
In hungry hungry hippos, the only objective is to eat marbles. You're following the only path the game presents, eat marbles.
People who choose to play with you, are people who join the game understanding that the goal of all players involved is to eat the marbles.
Hungry Hungry hippos is a poor example, and here's why.
Eve is a sandbox. What you want to do, falls upon choice. You don't have to choose to kill an innocent miner. You don't have to choose to try and scam someone for 1 billion isk. There are ways to play this game where you will never inflict any amount of dps against another player. There are ways to play this game where you can PvP without killing people who's goal is to not pvp.
It comes down to the choices you make, and if you're willing to attempt to try and inflict losses on other people who are not looking to competitively wager their resources against yours, then you are also capable of trying to inflict losses on people offline as well.
You're imposing your choices on people who have different goals/objectives and ultimately different choices than your own.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
Thief in game, thief out as well. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1289
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:58:00 -
[95] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Thief in game, thief out as well.
Confirming that Mag's made off with my VCR and vast amounts of collectible tea cozys.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Winchester Steele
340
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 21:59:00 -
[96] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one.
What scares me about folks like you is that you arent trolling. You actually believe this kind of gibberish. ... |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:04:00 -
[97] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. What scares me about folks like you is that you arent trolling. You actually believe this kind of gibberish.
Who is it? Other than you that makes the choice to treat other human beings like dirt and garbage?
If you're capable of mistreating other people on the internet, how are you not capable of doing so in person as well? |
Ai Shun
1092
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:And my little manhood SCREAMS FOR VENGEANCE!!!!
Sounds like something a short,funny Lannister would say. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2686
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:08:00 -
[99] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. What scares me about folks like you is that you arent trolling. You actually believe this kind of gibberish. Who is it? Other than you that makes the choice to treat other human beings like dirt and garbage? If you're capable of mistreating other people on the internet, how are you not capable of doing so in person as well?
They're not people.
They're other players. There is a difference. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Ai Shun
1092
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:14:00 -
[100] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They're not people.
They're other players. There is a difference.
Come off it. You know the meanie level 60 that ganked Divine Entervention in Stranglethorn Vale for ten hours straight when he was just a lowly level 30 Holy Priest is not just playing a video game. Once that ganker has logged off he changes into his camo pants, lurks in foggy alleyways with an assault rifle and waits for little old ladies to walk their pet kittens past so he can stomp the kittens and shoot at the old ladies with an assault rifle.
And you know what's the worst thing about it? He's laughing while he does it. And eating raw meat. While scratching his ass.
He's a psychopath in real life man with no respect for oral/anal hygiene. |
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1292
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. What scares me about folks like you is that you arent trolling. You actually believe this kind of gibberish. Who is it? Other than you that makes the choice to treat other human beings like dirt and garbage? If you're capable of mistreating other people on the internet, how are you not capable of doing so in person as well?
Says the guy who calls everyone autistic.
First, I do not suffer from Autism. I do suffer from misanthropy but honestly, I don't think I suffer from it. I rather enjoy it.
Second, Autism is a very real problem in many countries and your constant and belligerent mistreatment of these people is truly appalling. You should seriously do some research before comparing everyone who does not agree with you or that challenges your false assumptions to autistic individuals. It really is deplorable,
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:22:00 -
[102] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They're not people.
They're other players. There is a difference. Oh wow. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NBrio plugging holes
259
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:27:00 -
[103] - Quote
For better or worse, Eve players take some pride in our HTFU attitude. I've actually found that the vast majority of players are nice people if you show respect and some effort in understanding their point of view. I took the liberty of going through a few of your recent posts to see what you have encountered that leads you to the conclusion that most eve forum goers are hostile.
Most of your recent posts have been in F&I calling for changes to ABC's for a variety of reasons. While it looks like you did some research into the subject and has some statistics backing you up, you showed a lack of understanding of the ships' actual roles, and proceeded to ask for changes without that understanding. There is no quicker way to get people mad on these forums. (Well except for maybe uncovering a new scandal or mentioning the new order). For the most part we like this game the way it is, and lash out at attempts to change it that are not thoroughly reasoned. I personally stay out of F&I because I don't like reading thread after thread of people asking for changes that benefit their play style and mess things up for other people. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
809
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:36:00 -
[104] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:IWhy are many people on these forums so negative, and so hostile?
It is actually simple, really, but to understand this, you have to understand that the Universe, all of Existance, is really in balance (ever so slightly tipped towards Entrophy but let-¦s ignore that for now). Now, Balance means there are equal parts of good and evil, hostility and friendship, joy and hate, genius and stupidity and so on. That also means that to be happy, someone else must be sad or made sad, to experience joy you must hate someone or make someone hateful, to feel good someone else must feel bad, creation begets destruction begets creation, to live forever you have to die.
The conclusion is that Eve players are really a nice bunch but Karma, Kismet, the Universe itself, whatever you call it, will enforce the Balance and thus negativity and hostility... or rather, the negativity and hostility you experience prove that Eve players are really quite a nice bunch. Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
Mangala Solaris for CSM 9
|
Winchester Steele
343
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:40:00 -
[105] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. What scares me about folks like you is that you arent trolling. You actually believe this kind of gibberish. Who is it? Other than you that makes the choice to treat other human beings like dirt and garbage? If you're capable of mistreating other people on the internet, how are you not capable of doing so in person as well?
Calm down son. It's a video game.
You need perspective. Just because you are unable to separate fantasy from reality doesnt mean that everyone thinks like that.. When I awox the everloving sh*t out of your crappy mining corp and steal everything not nailed down I approach it in much the same way as I would a checkmate in chess. I win the game, you lose the game. It's folks like you that attach this real world significance to a silly game. Barfing up stupid comments like "if you can pretend to be a monster, you are one." Give me a break.
You want to say that my playstyle makes me a thief or monster IRL. Go right ahead. The REAL truth of it though, is that I've already forgotten about your crappy little make believe corp and my make believe heisted spacebux by the time I tuck my daughter in for the night.
... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2688
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:42:00 -
[106] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They're not people.
They're other players. There is a difference. Oh wow.
Since you can't read between the lines, I shall explain.
D.E. can't just say "Well you hurt people in EVE so you must hurt people irl!". Because "people" implies innocent bystander. They're not just "people", they're people who are choosing to play this game by the rules of the game.
And when you're playing this game, the rules allow other players to hurt you if they so choose, and are able to do so.
I can't charge usurious rent prices in real life without being punished for it. I can in Monopoly, because that's literally the point of the game. But I can only do this to people who choose to play Monopoly with me.
They're other players, and that changes the rules of interaction. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:42:00 -
[107] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. What scares me about folks like you is that you arent trolling. You actually believe this kind of gibberish. Who is it? Other than you that makes the choice to treat other human beings like dirt and garbage? If you're capable of mistreating other people on the internet, how are you not capable of doing so in person as well? They're not people. They're other players. There is a difference.
"They're not people"
That answers that. I think it's pretty obvious the type of person you are. One not worth interacting with. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2688
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:44:00 -
[108] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: "They're not people"
That answers that. I think it's pretty obvious the type of person you are. One not worth interacting with.
Look one post above yours.
Today I learned that reading is hard. Too hard for some. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:50:00 -
[109] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. What scares me about folks like you is that you arent trolling. You actually believe this kind of gibberish. Who is it? Other than you that makes the choice to treat other human beings like dirt and garbage? If you're capable of mistreating other people on the internet, how are you not capable of doing so in person as well? Calm down son. It's a video game. You need perspective. Just because you are unable to separate fantasy from reality doesnt mean that everyone thinks like that.. When I awox the everloving sh*t out of your crappy mining corp and steal everything not nailed down I approach it in much the same way as I would a checkmate in chess. I win the game, you lose the game. It's folks like you that attach this real world significance to a silly game. Barfing up stupid comments like "if you can pretend to be a monster, you are one." Give me a break. You want to say that my playstyle makes me a thief or monster IRL. Go right ahead. The REAL truth of it though, is that I've already forgotten about your crappy little make believe corp and my make believe heisted spacebux by the time I tuck my daughter in for the night.
How would your daughter feel, If she knew a goal of her father is to cause misery in others? How would you feel if someone stole from your daughter?
I believe it's you who has the skewed perspective. . . . unable to realize that all of our interaction with each other is indeed a reality. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2129
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:50:00 -
[110] - Quote
It's a video game forum. Video game forums are by far where you will see the worst people in the community represented the most.
To be fair though, the EVE forum isn't as bad as some of the other's out there. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2690
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:52:00 -
[111] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
How would your daughter feel, If she knew a goal of her father is to cause misery in others? How would you feel if someone stole from your daughter?
I believe it's you who has the skewed perspective. . . . unable to realize that all of our interaction with each other is indeed a reality.
My daughter laughed her little ass off when she sat on my lap for my last suicide gank of a miner.
"He blew up! Do it again Daddy!" Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:52:00 -
[112] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They're not people.
They're other players. There is a difference. Oh wow. Since you can't read between the lines, I shall explain. D.E. can't just say "Well you hurt people in EVE so you must hurt people irl!". Because "people" implies innocent bystander. They're not just "people", they're people who are choosing to play this game by the rules of the game. And when you're playing this game, the rules allow other players to hurt you if they so choose, and are able to do so. I can't charge usurious rent prices in real life without being punished for it. I can in Monopoly, because that's literally the point of the game. But I can only do this to people who choose to play Monopoly with me. They're other players, and that changes the rules of interaction.
Eve is a sandbox. It offers choices. You don't have to choose to want to pvp. When you choose to force unwanted pvp on someone, that's what defines you as negative, lesser person.
You're not engaging in combat with equally skilled competitors who are also seeking a challenge. When you engage someone who chooses not to live the same life you do, when you enforce your needs and wants on others at the expense of their selves, is when you define yourself as a person who isn't worthy of respect.
Your choices aren't mine. Mine hurt no one, yours hurt others. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NBrio plugging holes
260
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:53:00 -
[113] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Eve is a sandbox. What you want to do, falls upon choice. You don't have to choose to kill an innocent miner. You don't have to choose to try and scam someone for 1 billion isk. There are ways to play this game where you will never inflict any amount of dps against another player. There are ways to play this game where you can PvP without killing people who's goal is to not pvp.
It comes down to the choices you make, and if you're willing to attempt to try and inflict losses on other people who are not looking to competitively wager their resources against yours, then you are also capable of trying to inflict losses on people offline as well.
You're imposing your choices on people who have different goals/objectives and ultimately different choices than your own. The game also enables us to interfere with other player's activities, and reap rewards from doing so. Players need to adapt strategies to defend themselves whether or not they want to participate in "fair" pve. Believe it or not even though I am a ganker, I take part in pve activities. I have a deadspace fit t3 that I move through highsec. I have lost expensive ships to gankers. I took losing an expensive ship as a learning experience, and now make sure I use a mwd and cloak when traveling in any ship that I care about. When I gank people, I expect them to take similar steps to protect themselves. If they do not, I profit. It is as simple as that.
New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2690
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:54:00 -
[114] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're not engaging in combat with equally skilled competitors who are also seeking a challenge.
Oh, dear. How ever will I forgive myself? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
How would your daughter feel, If she knew a goal of her father is to cause misery in others? How would you feel if someone stole from your daughter?
I believe it's you who has the skewed perspective. . . . unable to realize that all of our interaction with each other is indeed a reality.
If I go out and play paintball, my shooting someone does not translate into me wanting to kill them. The same is doubly true for a video game. We are here to play a game. The rules allow a LOT of underhanded tactics. That is all there is to it. It's not a matter of good/evil, it's a game. |
Winchester Steele
346
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 22:59:00 -
[116] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Winchester Steele wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:]People like to pretend that when they sit on a computer the actions they perform aren't them performing those actions. Like some magical wall forms seperating themselves from the things they do.
It's a delusional thought process, to cause actions and believe you're not affected by the reaction.
It's wrong, but whatever, they don't care about right and wrong, they only care about immediate self gratification.
If you can pretend to be a monster, you are one. What scares me about folks like you is that you arent trolling. You actually believe this kind of gibberish. Who is it? Other than you that makes the choice to treat other human beings like dirt and garbage? If you're capable of mistreating other people on the internet, how are you not capable of doing so in person as well? Calm down son. It's a video game. You need perspective. Just because you are unable to separate fantasy from reality doesnt mean that everyone thinks like that.. When I awox the everloving sh*t out of your crappy mining corp and steal everything not nailed down I approach it in much the same way as I would a checkmate in chess. I win the game, you lose the game. It's folks like you that attach this real world significance to a silly game. Barfing up stupid comments like "if you can pretend to be a monster, you are one." Give me a break. You want to say that my playstyle makes me a thief or monster IRL. Go right ahead. The REAL truth of it though, is that I've already forgotten about your crappy little make believe corp and my make believe heisted spacebux by the time I tuck my daughter in for the night. How would your daughter feel, If she knew a goal of her father is to cause misery in others? How would you feel if someone stole from your daughter? I believe it's you who has the skewed perspective. . . . unable to realize that all of our interaction with each other is indeed a reality.
If someone stole from my daughter? In game I assume? Or are you still conflating fantasy and reality? Cuz in this predatory game of backstabbing, thievery and aggrssion I would tell her to HTFU and learn to protect her assets.
As to the other, my daughter has helped me gank many a miner. She squeals with delight when I let her point the pod. It's f*cking adorable. ... |
Ai Shun
1095
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:00:00 -
[117] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Eve is a sandbox. It offers choices. You don't have to choose to want to pvp. When you choose to force unwanted pvp on someone, that's what defines you as negative, lesser person.
You're not engaging in combat with equally skilled competitors who are also seeking a challenge. When you engage someone who chooses not to live the same life you do, when you enforce your needs and wants on others at the expense of their selves, is when you define yourself as a person who isn't worthy of respect.
Your choices aren't mine. Mine hurt no one, yours hurt others.
One could argue that your shiptoasting has a harmful effect on others and given the volume of it ...
The problem with your spurious argument is that EVE is a PvP oriented game. All aspects of it involve PvP in some form. Did you participate in the market? Were you mining or even trying to sell a product? Congratulations, you have participated in PvP and you've force that unwanted PvP on someone else.
Fortunately, the people who stick with EVE come here because it is a PvP oriented game where they can build and destroy empires and walk amongst the stars like the glorious bastards they are. So most of them aren't bothered by the likes of your PvP. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1297
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:01:00 -
[118] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Eve is a sandbox. It offers choices. You don't have to choose to want to pvp. When you choose to force unwanted pvp on someone, that's what defines you as negative, lesser person.
You're not engaging in combat with equally skilled competitors who are also seeking a challenge. When you engage someone who chooses not to live the same life you do, when you enforce your needs and wants on others at the expense of their selves, is when you define yourself as a person who isn't worthy of respect.
Your choices aren't mine. Mine hurt no one, yours hurt others.
You don't understand the nature of the sandbox.
The spirit of the sandbox is that CCP gives us mechanics. Spreadsheet and database queries with RNG thrown in for fun. They make it visually striking and then dump it all on one of the most power server infrastructures in the gaming world and say, "Go have fun minions!!"
And we play with the toys! We press all the buttons! We overheat all the things!
Some of us use the toys to shoot at rocks. Some of us use the toys to shoot at each other.
That is what the sandbox is. This other crap you are talking about is only your misinformed opinion. I don't give a damn what your choices are any more than you care about mine. But that doesn't mean that my choices and your choices are in any way mutually exclusive. What it does mean is that one day you may press all your buttons to shoot at me and I might press all my buttons to shoot at you. Or I might just press all my buttons to shoot at you and then you'll come here and talk about how I'm autistic, a psychopath. You'll cry about how the game is broken, that you're going to quit, that CCP is at fault for stuff.
Welcome to the sandbox. Individual results may vary. Consult a physician before applying to open skin. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
393
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:01:00 -
[119] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Your choices aren't mine. Mine hurt no one, yours hurt others. no one hurts anyone, it's a game.
Every character is fictional and it doesn't represent you, it is just an avatar used to interact through under the rules.
All actions are against fictional characters in a fictional galaxy filled with water millennia into the future.
There is no real hurt of anyone, no real loss or gain and no real consequences outside of EvE.
As a result judgements about people in real life don't need to be made as they aren't valid. That you continue to is frustrating and if it's possible for one player to make a request I would just ask that you stop as it only drags threads off topic. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:04:00 -
[120] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
How would your daughter feel, If she knew a goal of her father is to cause misery in others? How would you feel if someone stole from your daughter?
I believe it's you who has the skewed perspective. . . . unable to realize that all of our interaction with each other is indeed a reality.
If I go out and play paintball, my shooting someone does not translate into me wanting to kill them. The same is doubly true for a video game. We are here to play a game. The rules allow a LOT of underhanded tactics. That is all there is to it. It's not a matter of good/evil, it's a game.
You're playing paintball with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, at the paintball park or wherever it is you were playing, if you chose to take your paint ball gun and shoot the guy who is selling hot dogs and drinks, who's only goal while being there is to make some money selling his wares, then that is where the line between right and wrong comes into existence. Shooting a guy who is there, without the intention of actually participating in your competition, would be wrong.
Just like the miner choosing to play in his .6 sec space in his NPC corporation getting ganked in his orca by 5 people wishing to profit off of his suffering. |
|
Ai Shun
1096
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:06:00 -
[121] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You're playing paintball with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, at the paintball park or wherever it is you were playing, if you chose to take your paint ball gun and shoot the guy who is selling hot dogs and drinks, who's only goal while being there is to make some money selling his wares, then that is where the line between right and wrong comes into existence. Shooting a guy who is there, without the intention of actually participating in your competition, would be wrong.
Just like the miner choosing to play in his .6 sec space in his NPC corporation getting ganked in his orca by 5 people wishing to profit off of his suffering.
You're playing EVE with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, in EVE, if you choose to take your ship and shoot the guy who is not logged in and not playing EVE ...
Oh wait. You can't do that. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:07:00 -
[122] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Your choices aren't mine. Mine hurt no one, yours hurt others. no one hurts anyone, it's a game. Every character is fictional and it doesn't represent you, it is just an avatar used to interact through under the rules. All actions are against fictional characters in a fictional galaxy filled with water millennia into the future. There is no real hurt of anyone, no real loss or gain and no real consequences outside of EvE.
Potentially this statement works both ways. It might not affect you or I, but maybe someone is hurt by the poor representation of human interaction.
Maybe seeing on those who can choose to prey upon those who choose to not, reenforces a belief that people are despicable, making life less enjoyable.
There's no need to kill those who do not wish to be killed. Doing so for your own enjoyment at their expense is an example of how self-serving and egotistical a portion of this game's community, and thus, our society fails to comprehend reactions to their actions.
Despite your belief that the characters are fictional, they're still controlled by real people. Real people who might not believe in the validity of your actions. |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:07:00 -
[123] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're playing paintball with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, at the paintball park or wherever it is you were playing, if you chose to take your paint ball gun and shoot the guy who is selling hot dogs and drinks, who's only goal while being there is to make some money selling his wares, then that is where the line between right and wrong comes into existence. Shooting a guy who is there, without the intention of actually participating in your competition, would be wrong.
Just like the miner choosing to play in his .6 sec space in his NPC corporation getting ganked in his orca by 5 people wishing to profit off of his suffering.
If that nut is selling hotdogs in the middle of a paintball arena while people are paintballing, he does so with the understanding that he may get shot with a paintball, or two, to three hundred.
Which is the exact same thing you do when you log into a game billed as a game where backstabbing, scamming, lying, and killing other people are the prime selling points. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:07:00 -
[124] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're playing paintball with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, at the paintball park or wherever it is you were playing, if you chose to take your paint ball gun and shoot the guy who is selling hot dogs and drinks, who's only goal while being there is to make some money selling his wares, then that is where the line between right and wrong comes into existence. Shooting a guy who is there, without the intention of actually participating in your competition, would be wrong.
Just like the miner choosing to play in his .6 sec space in his NPC corporation getting ganked in his orca by 5 people wishing to profit off of his suffering.
No, not quite. The miner is still in the game. He's not outside of it. My weapons in EVE are built out of what he mines. He has an effect on my play every minute that he is playing. It may be indirect, but it's there. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:10:00 -
[125] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You're playing paintball with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, at the paintball park or wherever it is you were playing, if you chose to take your paint ball gun and shoot the guy who is selling hot dogs and drinks, who's only goal while being there is to make some money selling his wares, then that is where the line between right and wrong comes into existence. Shooting a guy who is there, without the intention of actually participating in your competition, would be wrong.
Just like the miner choosing to play in his .6 sec space in his NPC corporation getting ganked in his orca by 5 people wishing to profit off of his suffering. You're playing EVE with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose. Using your analogy, in EVE, if you choose to take your ship and shoot the guy who is not logged in and not playing EVE ... Oh wait. You can't do that.
Yet eve is a sandbox. The game comes with choices. Just like out of game, in game you get to choose how you wish to experience it.
I know full well that if I go to an ATM to withdraw $200 and I get mugged, that it was a POSSIBILITY. Just because it was a possibility, it happening does not make it "right".
Also, being a sandbox, I do not wish to remove your ability to continue assaulting people. If you wish to portray yourself as a low, self serving, despicable person, by all means, knock yourself out. What ever floats your boat, blows your hair back, bananas, whatever.
But you also have to respect my right, in this game of choices, to choose to believe that your desire to be mean to others, based on you making those choices in a game that is all about choices, is a perfectly valid platform for me to make an assumption on your character as a person. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:12:00 -
[126] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You're playing paintball with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, at the paintball park or wherever it is you were playing, if you chose to take your paint ball gun and shoot the guy who is selling hot dogs and drinks, who's only goal while being there is to make some money selling his wares, then that is where the line between right and wrong comes into existence. Shooting a guy who is there, without the intention of actually participating in your competition, would be wrong.
Just like the miner choosing to play in his .6 sec space in his NPC corporation getting ganked in his orca by 5 people wishing to profit off of his suffering.
No, not quite. The miner is still in the game. He's not outside of it. My weapons in EVE are built out of what he mines. He has an effect on my play every minute that he is playing. It may be indirect, but it's there.
But you don't have to choose to kill him. The objective of EVE isn't necessarily kill everyone and everything you see. You make the choice of what your objectives are, based upon those choices, it outlines who you are as a person. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1297
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:12:00 -
[127] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You're playing paintball with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, at the paintball park or wherever it is you were playing, if you chose to take your paint ball gun and shoot the guy who is selling hot dogs and drinks, who's only goal while being there is to make some money selling his wares, then that is where the line between right and wrong comes into existence. Shooting a guy who is there, without the intention of actually participating in your competition, would be wrong.
Just like the miner choosing to play in his .6 sec space in his NPC corporation getting ganked in his orca by 5 people wishing to profit off of his suffering. You're playing EVE with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose. Using your analogy, in EVE, if you choose to take your ship and shoot the guy who is not logged in and not playing EVE ... Oh wait. You can't do that. Yet eve is a sandbox. The game comes with choices. Just like out of game, in game you get to choose how you wish to experience it. I know full well that if I go to an ATM to withdraw $200 and I get mugged, that it was a POSSIBILITY. Just because it was a possibility, it happening does not make it "right". Also, being a sandbox, I do not wish to remove your ability to continue assaulting people. If you wish to portray yourself as a low, self serving, despicable person, by all means, knock yourself out. What ever floats your boat, blows your hair back, bananas, whatever. But you also have to respect my right, in this game of choices, to choose to believe that your desire to be mean to others, based on you making those choices in a game that is all about choices, is a perfectly valid platform for me to make an assumption on your character as a person.
No it doesn't.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1297
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:12:00 -
[128] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You're playing paintball with other people who have chosen then and there to risk themselves in a competition. Some win, some lose.
Using your analogy, at the paintball park or wherever it is you were playing, if you chose to take your paint ball gun and shoot the guy who is selling hot dogs and drinks, who's only goal while being there is to make some money selling his wares, then that is where the line between right and wrong comes into existence. Shooting a guy who is there, without the intention of actually participating in your competition, would be wrong.
Just like the miner choosing to play in his .6 sec space in his NPC corporation getting ganked in his orca by 5 people wishing to profit off of his suffering.
No, not quite. The miner is still in the game. He's not outside of it. My weapons in EVE are built out of what he mines. He has an effect on my play every minute that he is playing. It may be indirect, but it's there. But you don't have to choose to kill him. The objective of EVE isn't necessarily kill everyone and everything you see. You make the choice of what your objectives are, based upon those choices, it outlines who you are as a person.
No it doesn't.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Ai Shun
1096
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:13:00 -
[129] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Despite your belief that the characters are fictional, they're still controlled by real people. Real people who might not believe in the validity of your actions.
Then they are real people who have wrongly chosen to play a game with a set of rules that they do not agree with.
Almost all of the EVE related marketing from butterfly effect through to Dust has some reference to the dark and dastardly nature of the game. The media coverage of it invariable touches on the great scams, the epic destructive battles and events of that nature. The impact of one player on the universe - it's in almost all the material. CCP themselves (Permaband) have made a music video to illustrate this. There are well known slogans like "HTFU" and "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" that reinforce this.
If, to follow on your foolish earlier examples, somebody wanders onto a paintball field with a gun, a mask and tries to play cricket (Baseball for you Americans) you can't hold the other people who came there to play paintball liable for that persons' folly.
If you willfully ignore everything telling you what this game is about - PvP and player driven content on all levels with risk inherent in any activity you partake in - you can't reasonably complain when that happens. All you're doing is showing how foolish you are. |
Ai Shun
1096
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:16:00 -
[130] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Yet eve is a sandbox. The game comes with choices. Just like out of game, in game you get to choose how you wish to experience it.
I know full well that if I go to an ATM to withdraw $200 and I get mugged, that it was a POSSIBILITY. Just because it was a possibility, it happening does not make it "right".
Also, being a sandbox, I do not wish to remove your ability to continue assaulting people. If you wish to portray yourself as a low, self serving, despicable person, by all means, knock yourself out. What ever floats your boat, blows your hair back, bananas, whatever.
But you also have to respect my right, in this game of choices, to choose to believe that your desire to be mean to others, based on you making those choices in a game that is all about choices, is a perfectly valid platform for me to make an assumption on your character as a person.
It is still a video game. You really should separate a video game with its own set of rules of engagement from reality, which has a different set of rules.
How do I explain this to you.
See that rectangular box in front of you where these words are? That's a screen. Generally the things that happen inside that magic box is not real. They're imaginary. When you stand up and walk through that other rectangular device with a knob and feel sunshine on your face, that is real. That's different. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:16:00 -
[131] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Despite your belief that the characters are fictional, they're still controlled by real people. Real people who might not believe in the validity of your actions. Then they are real people who have wrongly chosen to play a game with a set of rules that they do not agree with. Almost all of the EVE related marketing from butterfly effect through to Dust has some reference to the dark and dastardly nature of the game. The media coverage of it invariable touches on the great scams, the epic destructive battles and events of that nature. The impact of one player on the universe - it's in almost all the material. CCP themselves (Permaband) have made a music video to illustrate this. There are well known slogans like "HTFU" and "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" that reinforce this. If, to follow on your foolish earlier examples, somebody wanders onto a paintball field with a gun, a mask and tries to play cricket (Baseball for you Americans) you can't hold the other people who came there to play paintball liable for that persons' folly. If you willfully ignore everything telling you what this game is about - PvP and player driven content on all levels with risk inherent in any activity you partake in - you can't reasonably complain when that happens. All you're doing is showing how foolish you are.
Which is why I, while standing in the middle of the pile of garbage that is the personas you wish to project, will consider myself above you for choosing to partake in the actions of the petty.
Does it bother you? Why? You don't care what people think when you steal from them. Why should you care what we think when we judge and condemn you for it? |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
194
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:18:00 -
[132] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:
No it doesn't.
Well he can believe whatever he wants to.
It won't have any influence on anything else, but he can sit in a corner and huff about how mean everyone is.
But if he started saying that "This is not how the game should be played" or "The game should be changed to fit this view" then we also have the right to say what we think of such beliefs.
Your opinions are your own until you share them, then they are a free for all.
I would think you have less reasoning capabilities than my 6 year old nephew for believing anyone who plays the game in a way you don't like is a despicable person IRL, but I'm also 99.99% sure that my thought is completely wrong and you understand why you need to eat your veggies with dinner.
See that? It's the understanding of separation. The understanding that there is a difference between a persons actions in a video game and how they act in real life. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:21:00 -
[133] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:
No it doesn't.
Well he can believe whatever he wants to. It won't have any influence on anything else, but he can sit in a corner and huff about how mean everyone is. But if he started saying that "This is not how the game should be played" or "The game should be changed to fit this view" then we also have the right to say what we think of such beliefs. Your opinions are your own until you share them, then they are a free for all. I would think you have less reasoning capabilities than my 6 year old nephew for believing anyone who plays the game in a way you don't like is a despicable person IRL, but I'm also 99.99% sure that my thought is completely wrong and you understand why you need to eat your veggies with dinner. See that? It's the understanding of separation. The understanding that there is a difference between a persons actions in a video game and how they act in real life.
If all you show someone is your ass, then that is how the person will perceive you.
You are the representation of your actions. No one is going to get scammed by someone and be like, well it's OK because at least he pays his taxes and doesn't beat his wife, and I think sometimes maybe he might give dollars to occasional homeless people.
People only see what you show them, and if you continuously show others what mean spirited, evil actions you're capable of, then you'll eventually be regarded as such.
|
Ai Shun
1097
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:22:00 -
[134] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Which is why I, while standing in the middle of the pile of garbage that is the personas you wish to project, will consider myself above you for choosing to partake in the actions of the petty.
Does it bother you? Why? You don't care what people think when you steal from them. Why should you care what we think when we judge and condemn you for it?
I don't. Because you see, I don't assume things and I am not turning this into a personal battle about my out of game morality. Like Jonah and other people arguing against you, I'm not a combat pilot (My killboard is laughable) and my skills are focussed on refining, mining and industrial applications. I'm primarily a hauler.
So no, I don't steal from others any-more than you do when you sell your Veldspar for less than they do. Or when I undercut somebody by .01 ISK, just like you.
But, I also support the play-style of EVE Online and when there are people who can create content in a game like Burn Jita, Hulkageddon or similar that forces me to think, adapt and play smartly I can love that and enjoy it without needing to try and paint some kind of picture of them as sociapaths because of my inability to comprehend that this is a video game. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:24:00 -
[135] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
But you don't have to choose to kill him. The objective of EVE isn't necessarily kill everyone and everything you see. You make the choice of what your objectives are, based upon those choices, it outlines who you are as a person.
Of course you do not have to kill him. However, there are a lot of actual reasons that people would want to. In the case of your miner, other miners may actually want his ship destroyed, as AFK mining affects their profits. The manufacturers of mining vessels want him to die, so that they can sell more mining vessels. Endless wealth piling up in high-sec without going anywhere is not a good thing.
It is a competition, a game. Your choices outline who you are as a character, not a person. I have a character who missions in high sec who is pretty much a carebear & has helped new players out when they need it. I also have characters who kill anything which moves in their roaming grounds.
It's a game. Don't be silly. Your choices in the game have nothing to do with your choices in life. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2694
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:24:00 -
[136] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Which is why I, while standing in the middle of the pile of garbage that is the personas you wish to project, will consider myself above you for choosing to partake in the actions of the petty.
Does it bother you? Why? You don't care what people think when you steal from them. Why should you care what we think when we judge and condemn you for it?
You're the one crying out for attention here. Literally shouting it from the rooftops. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
753
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:26:00 -
[137] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Since you can't read between the lines, I shall explain.
D.E. can't just say "Well you hurt people in EVE so you must hurt people irl!". Because "people" implies innocent bystander. They're not just "people", they're people who are choosing to play this game by the rules of the game.
And when you're playing this game, the rules allow other players to hurt you if they so choose, and are able to do so.
I can't charge usurious rent prices in real life without being punished for it. I can in Monopoly, because that's literally the point of the game. But I can only do this to people who choose to play Monopoly with me.
They're other players, and that changes the rules of interaction. Here's the thing. This game allows you to play the pirate, scammer, ganker, and whatever fills joy in your heart. And this I can understand pretty well. It's part of the game, in fact, it's necessary to keep the economy going. This game also, to an extent, allows you to cause real life grief* and suffering* to players. But here's where we differ in ideology. You've admitted in another thread that you enjoy inflicting grief to other players. To me you are no longer simply role-playing a bad guy. Your enjoyment of others' misery is very real, and not in-game. Sure, you can argue that "well, those people shouldn't feel that level of discomfort over a game". And I agree with you to an extent. But it doesn't dismiss the fact that you, in a very real manner, enjoy the real pain you are causing a real human being. It isn't "in-game" or "fake" joy. It's real joy.
Are you allowed to enjoy your game this way? By CCP's standards, sure you are. Do you have to? Absolutely not. You don't have to be a **** to play Eve. That you choose to is your own choice. And again, I'm not talking about making the choice to role-play as a pirate. That's fine. But when you go the extra mile to take it out of game and make someone angry for your amusement, that's real ******. I'm strictly talking about making the choice to be a ****, be it in the game or the forums. You have made that choice out of your own accord.
I actually have a little more respect for someone that admits they have made that choice than someone looking to excuse his behavior by focusing blame or irrelevant nonsense onto others, such as "everybody does it" or "it's their fault for allowing it to happen", which are typical bully poster-child responses.
*I am not using CCP's "grief" definition, but rather the contextual definition. For example, breaking into someone's mission with the sole intent of getting the player angry to "collect tears". |
Ai Shun
1098
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:26:00 -
[138] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:It's a game. Don't be silly. Your choices in the game have nothing to do with your choices in life.
Correct. No more-so than playing a Tauren makes me lust after a patch of meadow fresh grass.
|
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
194
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:30:00 -
[139] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: ~Stuff~
Out of curiosity, let's move this discussion away from EVE for a moment.
Let's say .... Mario Kart.
Person A is playing Mario Kart.
Person B comes along, and chooses to joins player A, racing separately (this is not Double Dash).
Person A then hits Person B with a red shell, and Person B loses the race.
Person B whines that he was ahead, and that Person A is a evil puppy kicking madman, and that person A should respect his wishes not to use offensive items against him because that's how B wants to play the game despite:
1: Person B playing the game knowing full well how the game was played.
2: Person B voluntarily joining the game under no duress to play it.
How is Person A suddenly an evil person for throwing the red shell? |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1299
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:32:00 -
[140] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Which is why I, while standing in the middle of the pile of garbage that is the personas you wish to project, will consider myself above you for choosing to partake in the actions of the petty.
Does it bother you? Why? You don't care what people think when you steal from them. Why should you care what we think when we judge and condemn you for it? I don't. Because you see, I don't assume things and I am not turning this into a personal battle about my out of game morality. Like Jonah and other people arguing against you, I'm not a combat pilot (My killboard is laughable) and my skills are focussed on refining, mining and industrial applications. I'm primarily a hauler. So no, I don't steal from others any-more than you do when you sell your Veldspar for less than they do. Or when I undercut somebody by .01 ISK, just like you. But, I also support the play-style of EVE Online and when there are people who can create content in a game like Burn Jita, Hulkageddon or similar that forces me to think, adapt and play smartly I can love that and enjoy it without needing to try and paint some kind of picture of them as sociapaths because of my inability to comprehend that this is a video game.
Ai, you are my favourite Kiwi (I added that U in there just for you). I am exactly the same. I run missions and am beginning to dabble a bit in the Industry part of the game. The funny thing is that people like Jonah and Kaarous and I don't always agree. There are times our discussions reach a fever pitch because we are all passionate about the game.
But I have no doubt that Jonah, Kaarous, Jenn, Baltec, hell even Dinsdale and IZ are fully functional, well adjusted people outside the game.
Except Mag's. That ****** nicked my tea cozys!!!!!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
278
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:47:00 -
[141] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: ~Stuff~
Out of curiosity, let's move this discussion away from EVE for a moment. Let's say .... Mario Kart. Person A is playing Mario Kart. Person B comes along, and chooses to joins player A, racing separately (this is not Double Dash). Person A then hits Person B with a red shell, and Person B loses the race. Person B whines that he was ahead, and that Person A is a evil puppy kicking madman, and that person A should respect his wishes not to use offensive items against him because that's how B wants to play the game despite: 1: Person B playing the game knowing full well how the game was played. 2: Person B voluntarily joining the game under no duress to play it.
How is Person A suddenly an evil person for throwing the red shell?
This is a valid analogy, but no doubt our narcissistic carebear friend will argue that he does not play to compete. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:53:00 -
[142] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: ~Stuff~
Out of curiosity, let's move this discussion away from EVE for a moment. Let's say .... Mario Kart. Person A is playing Mario Kart. Person B comes along, and chooses to joins player A, racing separately (this is not Double Dash). Person A then hits Person B with a red shell, and Person B loses the race. Person B whines that he was ahead, and that Person A is a evil puppy kicking madman, and that person A should respect his wishes not to use offensive items against him because that's how B wants to play the game despite: 1: Person B playing the game knowing full well how the game was played. 2: Person B voluntarily joining the game under no duress to play it.
How is Person A suddenly an evil person for throwing the red shell?
Well I'd suppose it's because both people playing mario kart are actively trying to play a game that requires both of them to race against one another, using shells and banana peels to try and impede the progress of others. Like if driver A and B both have the same objective of winning the race, then it's fair play between the two of them to do whatever the game entails and provides for them to accomplish that goal.
EvE isn't mario kart though. While you may choose to fit an interceptor with the intention of flying the fastest to make a video of you getting from dodixie to jita faster than anyone else ever has, well you're allowed to make that choice.
Because this game is about the choices. I don't have to care about your goals and objectives in this game, just like you don't have to care about mine. The game is a bed of opportunity and you can place your pillow on either end, and sleep at any angle.
Now if I'm choosing to sleep on the edge, so as not to impede you from your own goal of sleeping, and you choose to sleep diagonally and kick me off the bed, I'm allowed to think of you as an *******. Because you don't have to choose to sleep that way, but you do so with no regard to the negative impact on my ability to get some rest.
Because you're selfish, when you don't have to be. You are the product of your choices. You don't have to be mean spirited. You don't have to kill everyone you meet. Choosing to do so is a representation of you, because it's you making the choice to do so.
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
278
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:00:00 -
[143] - Quote
Teehee.. what did I win?
|
Ai Shun
1104
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:01:00 -
[144] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Now if I'm choosing to sleep on the edge, so as not to impede you from your own goal of sleeping, and you choose to sleep diagonally and kick me off the bed, I'm allowed to think of you as an *******. Because you don't have to choose to sleep that way, but you do so with no regard to the negative impact on my ability to get some rest.
On the positive side, you've indicated that you are bored and there is nothing for you to do. So, if you're station spinning you're sleeping on the edge.
However, because this is a MMO ... as soon as you do something OTHER than nothing in a station you've made an impact. You've shifted off that edge and you become everything you deplore.
Have you traded? Have you sold anything? What about those minerals you mined? Have you flown into lowsec to capture a complex? For that matter, have you undocked?
Congratulations, you've in some way impeded or affected another player. You are what you dislike.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:02:00 -
[145] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Teehee.. what did I win?
It wasn't a valid analogy. Considering you're easily impressed, find something in your belly button and consider it your prize. I'm sure that'll keep you busy, chances are you'll even have the choice to eat it.
Because you know, eve is all about choices. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1897
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:03:00 -
[146] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Because this game is about the choices. I don't have to care about your goals and objectives in this game, just like you don't have to care about mine. The game is a bed of opportunity and you can place your pillow on either end, and sleep at any angle.
Forget Mario Kart. There are a number of boardgames with the same kind of moral ambiguity. How about a classic like Diplomacy? You can work together to win, or you can backstab your allies. Like Eve, morally ambiguous behavior is explicitly stated to be a part of the game. Does backstabbing your friend in Diplomacy make you a bad person just because it wasn't an imperative? There's a dozen other boardgames that work on the same principle of such behavior being allowed but not mandated. Or even playing D&D as chaotic evil. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:05:00 -
[147] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Now if I'm choosing to sleep on the edge, so as not to impede you from your own goal of sleeping, and you choose to sleep diagonally and kick me off the bed, I'm allowed to think of you as an *******. Because you don't have to choose to sleep that way, but you do so with no regard to the negative impact on my ability to get some rest. On the positive side, you've indicated that you are bored and there is nothing for you to do. So, if you're station spinning you're sleeping on the edge. However, because this is a MMO ... as soon as you do something OTHER than nothing in a station you've made an impact. You've shifted off that edge and you become everything you deplore. Have you traded? Have you sold anything? What about those minerals you mined? Have you flown into lowsec to capture a complex? For that matter, have you undocked? Congratulations, you've in some way impeded or affected another player. You are what you dislike.
Yes Yes Sold them Yes Yes
I've only interacted with people in ways that have taken nothing from others who didn't wish to have something of theirs taken. I've never imposed my desires and wants on someone who wasn't looking to receive them directly.
Your analysis is poor, you aren't a worthy opponent.
Bring me someone else. |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
196
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:06:00 -
[148] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Anhenka wrote:
How is Person A suddenly an evil person for throwing the red shell?
Well I'd suppose it's because both people playing mario kart are actively trying to play a game that requires both of them to race against one another, using shells and banana peels to try and impede the progress of others. Like if driver A and B both have the same objective of winning the race, then it's fair play between the two of them to do whatever the game entails and provides for them to accomplish that goal.
But A and B did not play against each other, and did not have the same objective of winning.
A played to win the game, to get to the end the fastest and first with all the tools at his disposal.
B played to get to the end without being disturbed. B wanted a time trial game, but joined a VS game anyway. He was playing against the clock not player A, and his objections to A using a red shell were not based in game mechanics, game purpose, or what most people consider reasonable actions for Mario Kart.
But B still considers A an ******* for playing within the bounds and purpose of the game to achieve his goals.
Just because you consider the people ganking you, scamming you, or wardeccing you in game or on the forums does not mean that any of those actions are not explicitly layed out as acceptable by the terms of the game, by the creators of the game, by the advertising for the game, and by the expectations and understandings of the gaming community.
A ganker is no more a bad person for ganking a hauler carrying 10 bil in an itty than player A is for firing a red shell at player B, because they are both actions understood by all to be a part of the game and a consequence of a certain playstyle, action, or simply deciding to log on or grab a controller. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1308
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:07:00 -
[149] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Because you're selfish, when you don't have to be. You are the product of your choices. You don't have to be mean spirited. You don't have to kill everyone you meet. Choosing to do so is a representation of you, because it's you making the choice to do so.
Let's talk about choices and people being selfish.
You have chosen to come to the forums of a game that has been around, without your presence, for over 10 years.
You have chosen to ask for changes in the game mechanics to suit you and **** everyone else. After all, we're all assholes for kicking you out of a bed (seriously, WTF bullshit analogy is that?) - Tell me how this choice that you've made is not selfish?
You have chosen to call everyone who disagrees with you or challenges your false assumptions autistic, psychopathic, etc.
Clearly, everything you have chosen to type today is a very clear representation of exactly what kind of person you are. After all:
Divine Entervention wrote:You are the product of your choices. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:11:00 -
[150] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Because this game is about the choices. I don't have to care about your goals and objectives in this game, just like you don't have to care about mine. The game is a bed of opportunity and you can place your pillow on either end, and sleep at any angle.
Forget Mario Kart. There are a number of boardgames with the same kind of moral ambiguity. How about a classic like Diplomacy? You can work together to win, or you can backstab your allies. Like Eve, morally ambiguous behavior is explicitly stated to be a part of the game. Does backstabbing your friend in Diplomacy make you a bad person just because it wasn't an imperative? There's a dozen other boardgames that work on the same principle of such behavior being allowed but not mandated. Or even playing D&D as chaotic evil.
Diplomacy, great choice. I love games like it where it comes down to out thinking and manipulating your opponents. Which is exactly the only real way to play the game. Everyone enters the game with the same objective, to win, which is explicitly described in the game's rule book.
In board games, there is a definitive "win". So everyone entering the game knows full well the objective and agrees to make an influence upon the outcome.
EvE has no definitive "win". Winning is based on personal goals and objectives. One person's sense of winning could be mining 10 billion veldspar. Another persons sense of winning could be blowing up 1000 miners.
Both are valid options in the EVE sandbox, a game based on personal choice.
Now the miner, his goal has no direct impact on anyone other than maybe forcing other competing miners to move to other belts faster. It doesn't detract anything other than a bit more attention and a miniscule, neglible amount of time.
The ganker, his goal has a direct impact on others, drastically impeding their progress for an indirect proportion of reward vs the other person's loss.
Because of the option to choose and define personal wins, the conflict arises when one person's intersects with another's, causing him to be unable to reach his goal because of unwanted interaction. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:16:00 -
[151] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Anhenka wrote: How is Person A suddenly an evil person for throwing the red shell?
Well I'd suppose it's because both people playing mario kart are actively trying to play a game that requires both of them to race against one another, using shells and banana peels to try and impede the progress of others. Like if driver A and B both have the same objective of winning the race, then it's fair play between the two of them to do whatever the game entails and provides for them to accomplish that goal. But A and B did not play against each other, and did not have the same objective of winning. A played to win the game, to get to the end the fastest and first with all the tools at his disposal. B played to get to the end without being disturbed. B wanted a time trial game, but joined a VS game anyway. He was playing against the clock not player A, and his objections to A using a red shell were not based in game mechanics, game purpose, or what most people consider reasonable actions for Mario Kart. But B still considers A an ******* for playing within the bounds and purpose of the game to achieve his goals. Just because you consider the people ganking you, scamming you, or wardeccing you in game or on the forums does not mean that any of those actions are not explicitly layed out as acceptable by the terms of the game, by the creators of the game, by the advertising for the game, and by the expectations and understandings of the gaming community. A ganker is no more a bad person for ganking a hauler carrying 10 bil in an itty than player A is for firing a red shell at player B, because they are both actions understood by all to be a part of the game and a consequence of a certain playstyle, action, or simply deciding to log on or grab a controller.
Change your mario kart game to another sandbox. No offense to you, maybe you hooked into the word banana I used earlier and decided to run with it, but comparing mario kart and eve is ignorant.
Your analogy is ignorant. |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
196
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:19:00 -
[152] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Change your mario kart game to another sandbox. No offense to you, maybe you hooked into the word banana I used earlier and decided to run with it, but comparing mario kart and eve is ignorant.
Your analogy is ignorant.
Bro, I started the Mario Kart analogy in this thread.
And calling it ignorant changes nothing.
Why do other people playing a game within the boundaries, purpose, and guidelines of an intentionally dark and bitter game make them a terrible person for inflicting dark and bitter actions upon your person while you do your best to avoid it? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:22:00 -
[153] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Change your mario kart game to another sandbox. No offense to you, maybe you hooked into the word banana I used earlier and decided to run with it, but comparing mario kart and eve is ignorant.
Your analogy is ignorant.
Bro, I started the Mario Kart analogy in this thread. And calling it ignorant changes nothing. Why do other people playing a game within the boundaries, purpose, and guidelines of an intentionally dark and bitter game make them a terrible person for inflicting dark and bitter actions upon your person while you do your best to avoid it?
Because the dark and bitter game play aspect is only a choice. You don't have to subject others to it. I'm not even saying the choice should be removed, the choice makes your "dark and bitter" game choices make mine look that much better. It makes you a terrible person because you don't have to do it. You're choosing to make it happen.
You are making the choice.
You say you started the "mario kart analogy" in this thread.
Yes you did, I would not because it's a poor analogy. My statement was that since I mentioned the word bananas, it influenced your choosing mario kart, a game with banana peels, to be the object of your design. |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
279
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:26:00 -
[154] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Moneta Curran wrote:Teehee.. what did I win?
It wasn't a valid analogy. Considering you're easily impressed, find something in your belly button and consider it your prize. I'm sure that'll keep you busy, chances are you'll even have the choice to eat it. Because you know, eve is all about choices.
You seem to have missed the part where I predicted your next self-righteous excuse for losing.
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1309
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:27:00 -
[155] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Because the dark and bitter game play aspect is only a choice. You don't have to subject others to it. I'm not even saying the choice should be removed, the choice makes your "dark and bitter" game choices make mine look that much better. It makes you a terrible person because you don't have to do it. You're choosing to make it happen.
You are making the choice.
Choosing not to, for some people, makes the game dull and boring. Like playing MarioKart and never sabotaging your competition. It just amounts to driving around.
More importantly, you've gotten off the topic of the OP which asked about behavior on the forums and not in game. But we'll all wait for you to finish your little temper tantrum before we move on, you precious little thing.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
197
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:29:00 -
[156] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Because the dark and bitter game play aspect is only a choice. You don't have to subject others to it. I'm not even saying the choice should be removed, the choice makes your "dark and bitter" game choices make mine look that much better. It makes you a terrible person because you don't have to do it. You're choosing to make it happen.
You are making the choice.
Can't convince a zealot I guess.
Ok, for now I'm done trying to convince someone that coloring inside the lines in a game based on cutthroat competition does not makes you an evil puppy kicking madman.
I'm off to go kick puppies, use sacks of kittens as boat anchors, and perhaps beat small children so I can take away their candy.
Or maybe I'm off to go paint the the white moldings I installed a few days ago white. Again. It will be more productive. |
Ai Shun
1108
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:33:00 -
[157] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I've only interacted with people in ways that have taken nothing from others who didn't wish to have something of theirs taken. I've never imposed my desires and wants on someone who wasn't looking to receive them directly.
Incorrect. You've undercut and stolen another players' profits. You've sold minerals at a price that prevented another player from trying to profit where they wanted to. They weren't asking you to do that, by your reasoning.
Does that make you a cold, heartless bastard in real life that steals from orphanages, cheats on his taxes and robs from a church collection bowl? |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:33:00 -
[158] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Both are valid options in the EVE sandbox, a game based on personal choice.
Now the miner, his goal has no direct impact on anyone other than maybe forcing other competing miners to move to other belts faster. It doesn't detract anything other than a bit more attention and a miniscule, neglible amount of time.
The ganker, his goal has a direct impact on others, drastically impeding their progress for an indirect proportion of reward vs the other person's loss.
The miner has direct impact. The amount mined vs the demand for what is mined determines the value and price of all goods in the game. Even the amount I make from reprocessing loot is affected by their actions.
If there was absolutely no effort to making people make choices in their mining, you could see the price of trit as low as 2. It's been there before. That would cut the profits of miners who actually pay attention to what they are doing in half, doubling what they would have to do to achieve the same result.
When you are redeeming LP from your stabbed plexing, you are cutting into the amount that my high sec character makes when running level 4 missions for the Caldari. It's supply and demand. Every action you take has an effect on everyone else.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:40:00 -
[159] - Quote
You can label me with whatever traits you wish me to have.
Ultimately, I do not care what it is you think of me. If I did, I would be parroting your statements hoping to gain your favor.
My statement still stands though, regardless of the amount of excrement you've attempted throw on it.
That if you're a person who's objective is to inflict misery and suffering on others for your personal gain, you are lesser human being, an animal unworthy of this gift of consciousness and human intelligence.
You're the ones who can't handle judgement. |
Vran DalEsra
Vran DalEsra Corporation
31
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:44:00 -
[160] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You can label me with whatever traits you wish me to have.
Ultimately, I do not care what it is you think of me. If I did, I would be parroting your statements hoping to gain your favor.
My statement still stands though, regardless of the amount of excrement you've attempted throw on it.
That if you're a person who's objective is to inflict misery and suffering on others for your personal gain, you are lesser human being, an animal unworthy of this gift of consciousness and human intelligence.
You're the ones who can't handle judgement.
You care enough to argue repeatedly and in circles, that's for sure. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:57:00 -
[161] - Quote
Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You can label me with whatever traits you wish me to have.
Ultimately, I do not care what it is you think of me. If I did, I would be parroting your statements hoping to gain your favor.
My statement still stands though, regardless of the amount of excrement you've attempted throw on it.
That if you're a person who's objective is to inflict misery and suffering on others for your personal gain, you are lesser human being, an animal unworthy of this gift of consciousness and human intelligence.
You're the ones who can't handle judgement. You care enough to argue repeatedly and in circles, that's for sure.
I care about the message I'm stating. Your opinion of me as a person? Not so much.
Would you like to talk about how people on the forums are super negative? Or would you rather talk about me as a person?
You know, because you can't adequately argue a point regarding morality, and you choose to show your lack there of by attacking the people spreading the message? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2698
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 00:59:00 -
[162] - Quote
To a prey animal, a predator must be evil. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Ai Shun
1109
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:00:00 -
[163] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:That if you're a person who's objective is to inflict misery and suffering on others for your personal gain, you are lesser human being, an animal unworthy of this gift of consciousness and human intelligence.
You should stop trading and mining then unless you want to be tarred by the same brush.
Sounds ridiculous?
So does the assertion that enjoying the space combat aspect of EVE PvP makes somebody ... how do you phrase it ... "a lesser human being, an animal worthy of this blah blah". In the context of EVE the two are no different - PvP in a PvP oriented game where there are wins and losses all across the game universe in all areas of play. Winning at something they choose to partake in does not make somebody a lesser human being.
You lost a ship. Get over it. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:00:00 -
[164] - Quote
Well, good luck on whatever you do. Just remember to have fun. That's kind of the point of playing a game.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:01:00 -
[165] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:To a prey animal, a predator must be evil.
Is this a statement comparing in game to out of game?
According to you, you're not allowed to do that. Just like I can't say that you're a despicable person unworthy of respect because you choose to steal from people who do not wish to be stolen from, you can't argue anything related to out of game. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1313
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:01:00 -
[166] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:To a prey animal, a predator must be evil.
I disagree. Bears are predators. I don't think salmon see them as evil. In fact, the only thing salmon think is, "Holy ****! I'm a fish!!!"
Bears are awesome!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Ai Shun
1109
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:03:00 -
[167] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:I disagree. Bears are predators. I don't think salmon see them as evil. In fact, the only thing salmon think is, "Holy ****! I'm a fish!!!"
Until they get batted out of the water and then they're like "Holy ****! I'm a flying fish!!!"
Or as we say here in NZ ... "fush".
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:03:00 -
[168] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:That if you're a person who's objective is to inflict misery and suffering on others for your personal gain, you are lesser human being, an animal unworthy of this gift of consciousness and human intelligence. You should stop trading and mining then unless you want to be tarred by the same brush. Sounds ridiculous? So does the assertion that enjoying the space combat aspect of EVE PvP makes somebody ... how do you phrase it ... " a lesser human being, an animal worthy of this blah blah". You lost a ship. Get over it.
I disagree with you.
Also I'm not upset at all for losing any ships. If you would like, you can find me and blow me up at any time to see if I become upset, personally. I'd welcome the opportunity to provide content for you.
Though I may judge you as pathetically broken to wish to attempt to upset me, because I've definitely rattled your sense of self into motivating you to take action. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2698
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:05:00 -
[169] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:To a prey animal, a predator must be evil. Is this a statement comparing in game to out of game? According to you, you're not allowed to do that. Just like I can't say that you're a despicable person unworthy of respect because you choose to steal from people who do not wish to be stolen from, you can't argue anything related to out of game.
No.
It's a statement qualifying you as a prey animal. In order for you to justify your own cowering existence, you have to believe that the predator is "evil". Because if the predator is in fact not evil, then it puts the lie to who you are and how you live. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1313
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:07:00 -
[170] - Quote
Ai, Kaarous, et al.
You're wasting your time. He doesn't get it. He never will.
Let his sub expire since he will never amount to anything more than another whiner in a sea of whiners.
This is not the game for him despite your efforts to educate him.
Also, bears are awesome. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:08:00 -
[171] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:To a prey animal, a predator must be evil. Is this a statement comparing in game to out of game? According to you, you're not allowed to do that. Just like I can't say that you're a despicable person unworthy of respect because you choose to steal from people who do not wish to be stolen from, you can't argue anything related to out of game. No. It's a statement qualifying you as a prey animal. In order for you to justify your own cowering existence, you have to believe that the predator is "evil". Because if the predator is in fact not evil, then it puts the lie to who you are and how you live.
You may concern yourself with whatever animal classifications inspire you.
I'm beyond that.
Enjoy your time amongst the beasts. I'll concern myself with those who've proven to be good, worthy, respectable people.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2698
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:09:00 -
[172] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:
You're wasting your time. He doesn't get it. He never will.
I am aware of this. At present it pleases me to confront him with his personal failings. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
393
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:10:00 -
[173] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:... to wish to attempt to upset me, because I've definitely rattled your sense of self into motivating you to take action. I don't think anyone has a wish to upset you, it's more likely that Remiel has provided way more motivation to kill and pod you than anything you've done.
Actually I'm surprised that with your complaints of poor ISK/hr for new players, that you haven't seen the obvious cash cow staring you right in the face.
With a 500 million ISK offer for your corpse, surely the fastest way to generate the ISK you so desire would be through an alt; and then you can just join the ranks of the despicable, low-life, morally corrupt people that you claim everyone else is. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Ai Shun
1109
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:15:00 -
[174] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Though I may judge you as pathetically broken to wish to attempt to upset me, because I've definitely rattled your sense of self into motivating you to take action.
And that's another thing you're missing.
If I were to come after (I'll bump you with my Badger ... let's see how that goes for me ... ) it wouldn't be to upset you.
It would be because, in the context of a game filled with pirates and bounty hunters causing somebody to lose ISK, no matter how negligible it makes sense. To fill the void of space with the vented gasses of a pod, to know that you can claim a kill of another loud mouthed braggart that swaggered through Jita, broadcasting his superiority over all and knowing that you brought the arrogant prick low.
Having his frozen corpse in your hangar is just a bonus. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:15:00 -
[175] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:... to wish to attempt to upset me, because I've definitely rattled your sense of self into motivating you to take action. I don't think anyone has a wish to upset you, it's more likely that Remiel has provided way more motivation to kill and pod you than anything you've done. Actually I'm surprised that with your complaints of poor ISK/hr for new players, that you haven't seen the obvious cash cow staring you right in the face. With a 500 million ISK offer for your corpse, surely the fastest way to generate the ISK you so desire would be through an alt; and then you can just join the ranks of the despicable, low-life, morally corrupt people that you claim everyone else is.
I did think about it. I considered it.
But I do not wish to take advantage of someone who is emotionally afflicted.
Ultimately I would feel like less of a person for preying upon someone's vulnerabilities, when we're suppose to be helping each other have as much enjoyment as possible.
You know, as long as that enjoyment doesn't come at the expense of others. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:16:00 -
[176] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Though I may judge you as pathetically broken to wish to attempt to upset me, because I've definitely rattled your sense of self into motivating you to take action. And that's another thing you're missing. If I were to come after (I'll bump you with my Badger ... let's see how that goes for me ... ) it wouldn't be to upset you. It would be because, in the context of a game filled with pirates and bounty hunters causing somebody to lose ISK, no matter how negligible it makes sense. To fill the void of space with the vented gasses of a pod, to know that you can claim a kill of another loud mouthed braggart that swaggered through Jita, broadcasting his superiority over all and knowing that you brought the arrogant prick low. Having his frozen corpse in your hangar is just a bonus.
So because someone claims to be better than you, it upsets you?
Are you so insecure? |
Vran DalEsra
Vran DalEsra Corporation
33
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:18:00 -
[177] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:[ But I do not wish to take advantage of someone who is emotionally afflicted.
Ultimately I would feel like less of a person for preying upon someone's vulnerabilities, when we're suppose to be helping each other have as much enjoyment as possible.
You know, as long as that enjoyment doesn't come at the expense of others.
It's a game. Stop taking all of this so seriously. If you can't handle some pixels illustrating spaceships shooting you and others in a fantasy environment, please do step away from the computer. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:19:00 -
[178] - Quote
Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:[ But I do not wish to take advantage of someone who is emotionally afflicted.
Ultimately I would feel like less of a person for preying upon someone's vulnerabilities, when we're suppose to be helping each other have as much enjoyment as possible.
You know, as long as that enjoyment doesn't come at the expense of others. It's a game. Stop taking all of this so seriously. If you can't handle some pixels illustrating spaceships shooting you and others in a fantasy environment, please do step away from the computer.
I can handle ships exploding. I can handle imaginary isk evaporating.
None of it is real anyways.
The only thing real about EVE is you and I. so, considering the only aspect of EVE that is real, why would the reality of human interaction be the facet you choose to ignore most? |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1315
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:20:00 -
[179] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:
You're wasting your time. He doesn't get it. He never will.
I am aware of this. At present it pleases me to confront him with his personal failings.
You want to inflict misery on him on the forums?
Psychopath!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Vran DalEsra
Vran DalEsra Corporation
33
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:23:00 -
[180] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
I can handle ships exploding. I can handle imaginary isk evaporating.
None of it is real anyways.
The only thing real about EVE is you and I. so, considering the only aspect of EVE that is real, why would the reality of human interaction be the facet you choose to ignore most?
Who says I'm ignoring it?
I enjoy the game with friends, don't take it too seriously and certainly don't whine about it all.
It's not so much what you are saying, it's how you're saying it. |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2702
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:24:00 -
[181] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:
You're wasting your time. He doesn't get it. He never will.
I am aware of this. At present it pleases me to confront him with his personal failings. You want to inflict misery on him on the forums? Psychopath!
I firmly believe in this quote.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
395
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:24:00 -
[182] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You know, as long as that enjoyment doesn't come at the expense of others.
But you seem to be having enjoyment at the expense of others all the time right here on the forum with your derogatory and personal attacks.
Lot's of people have posted with what has been a clear desire to help you and they have been either ignored or shot down time after time to the point of enough frustration to show their anger in posts and/or place a nice bounty on your corpse.
Clearly you can see that the way you have responded to many posts over the last couple of days has been at the expense of others that took time and effort to try to be helpful.
So why is it ok for you to generate enjoyment at the expense of others here, but it's not ok for people to pvp in game unless both parties consent to it?
I don't see any distinction at all between you and what you claim others to be. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:24:00 -
[183] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:To a prey animal, a predator must be evil.
I've always found that wolves (well coyotes, anyway) are quite fond of sheep, on the other hand. |
Ai Shun
1112
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:26:00 -
[184] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Ai Shun wrote:And that's another thing you're missing.
If I were to come after (I'll bump you with my Badger ... let's see how that goes for me ... ) it wouldn't be to upset you.
It would be because, in the context of a game filled with pirates and bounty hunters causing somebody to lose ISK, no matter how negligible it makes sense. To fill the void of space with the vented gasses of a pod, to know that you can claim a kill of another loud mouthed braggart that swaggered through Jita, broadcasting his superiority over all and knowing that you brought the arrogant prick low.
Having his frozen corpse in your hangar is just a bonus So because someone claims to be better than you, it upsets you? Are you so insecure? If you'll claim that none of this really matters since it's all game LOL LETS KILL PEOPLE FOR FUN, then why will you let anything that happens online stir you into an affected state? Why would you let yourself be so easily manipulated?
Oh dearie me, you struggle with context and comprehension.
Ask yourself. What would Jack Sparrow do if another pirate claimed he was the greatest pirate in the Caribbean? What about Gredo and Boba Fett? How would they have reacted if another claimed to be better than them?
Right-eo. Now you have a bit of motiviation for a character of a pirate and a bounty hunter played in a video game. Maybe that character feels insecure, I don't know. It would be a bit odd for a player to project that type of feeling onto a character (Most roleplayers I know can't handle that kind of character depth although there are a few good ones)
Why do you assume that my real world self is any way affected by the motivations and actions of characters in a video game? Is the separation of the pretend world and reality something you struggle with normally?
Edit: You realise we're not really in Jita right now, do you? |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:26:00 -
[185] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
"It is not with anger that I slay, but with laughter. Come, let us slay the spirit of gravity."
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2702
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:27:00 -
[186] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:To a prey animal, a predator must be evil. I've always found that wolves (well coyotes, anyway) are quite fond of sheep, on the other hand.
Personally I prefer lamb, but then I was introduced to Greek food at a young age. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:28:00 -
[187] - Quote
Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
I can handle ships exploding. I can handle imaginary isk evaporating.
None of it is real anyways.
The only thing real about EVE is you and I. so, considering the only aspect of EVE that is real, why would the reality of human interaction be the facet you choose to ignore most?
Who says I'm ignoring it? I enjoy the game with friends, don't take it too seriously and certainly don't whine about it all. It's not so much what you are saying, it's how you're saying it.
Sorry you're offended by my moral and spiritual authority. I would hope you would be secure enough in yourself to not let the actions of someone online influence your emotional state, but hope doesn't really matter when it comes to the perceptions and inner workings of individuals.
I'm sorry my words upset you. Hopefully you can find it within yourself to get over it.
Lets pretend I'm an eve veteran trying to score points:
HTFU |
Vran DalEsra
Vran DalEsra Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:28:00 -
[188] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:]
Why do you assume that my real world self is any way affected by the motivations and actions of characters in a video game? Is the separation of the pretend world and reality something you struggle with normally?
Edit: You realise we're not really in Jita right now, do you?
Nail meet head. Spot on. |
Vran DalEsra
Vran DalEsra Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:30:00 -
[189] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Sorry you're offended by my moral and spiritual authority. I would hope you would be secure enough in yourself to not let the actions of someone online influence your emotional state, but hope doesn't really matter when it comes to the perceptions and inner workings of individuals.
I'm sorry my words upset you. Hopefully you can find it within yourself to get over it.
Lets pretend I'm an eve veteran trying to score points:
HTFU
1/10
This thread tells us a lot more about you than it does about the EVE player community. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1317
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:30:00 -
[190] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:
You're wasting your time. He doesn't get it. He never will.
I am aware of this. At present it pleases me to confront him with his personal failings. You want to inflict misery on him on the forums? Psychopath! I firmly believe in this quote. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Bears have claws. Bears are awesome!
Also, Jeff is awesome! "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2702
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:31:00 -
[191] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Sorry you're offended by my moral and spiritual authority.
It is, by definition, impossible to be offended by something that does not exist.
Self righteousness and true righteousness are mutually exclusive. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:34:00 -
[192] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Ai Shun wrote:And that's another thing you're missing.
If I were to come after (I'll bump you with my Badger ... let's see how that goes for me ... ) it wouldn't be to upset you.
It would be because, in the context of a game filled with pirates and bounty hunters causing somebody to lose ISK, no matter how negligible it makes sense. To fill the void of space with the vented gasses of a pod, to know that you can claim a kill of another loud mouthed braggart that swaggered through Jita, broadcasting his superiority over all and knowing that you brought the arrogant prick low.
Having his frozen corpse in your hangar is just a bonus So because someone claims to be better than you, it upsets you? Are you so insecure? If you'll claim that none of this really matters since it's all game LOL LETS KILL PEOPLE FOR FUN, then why will you let anything that happens online stir you into an affected state? Why would you let yourself be so easily manipulated? Oh dearie me, you struggle with context and comprehension. Ask yourself. What would Jack Sparrow do if another pirate claimed he was the greatest pirate in the Caribbean? What about Gredo and Boba Fett? How would they have reacted if another claimed to be better than them? Right-eo. Now you have a bit of motiviation for a character of a pirate and a bounty hunter played in a video game. Maybe that character feels insecure, I don't know. It would be a bit odd for a player to project that type of feeling onto a character (Most roleplayers I know can't handle that kind of character depth although there are a few good ones) Why do you assume that my real world self is any way affected by the motivations and actions of characters in a video game? Is the separation of the pretend world and reality something you struggle with normally? Edit: You realise we're not really in Jita right now, do you?
Because you obviously care enough to try and prove me wrong. I've influenced you.
Simply by stating the obvious:
People who do bad things are bad people.
You've felt it necessary to challenge me. Why? Well I don't know what you tell yourself, but my perception is because you can't handle someone making judgements.
Like you feel that your mentality is so strong, correct, and righteous that anyone doing something out of the realm of what you feel should be the norm needs to be corrected by you.
Now I can understand that there's a potential similarity in what it is I'm doing. But here's my defense:
I'm not trying to correct the actions being done that leads me to believe they are bad people. I'm simply stating my interpretation of what I observe.
I don't even think I initially made a statement towards anyone in particular. I made over arching statements addressed to whomever wished to see, and people chose to respond to me directly, which imo, justified my responding to their directly addressing me.
Did I start any sentences or quote you first at all saying: Vran DalEsra! I am requesting an audience!
No, in fact it was the other way around. I made a statement, and you all came to me.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2702
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:35:00 -
[193] - Quote
Quote:You've felt it necessary to challenge me. Why?
I would ask you why you feel it necessary to come on here and trumpet your self assumed moral superiority?
If you actually have nothing to prove, why try so very, very hard to prove it? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:36:00 -
[194] - Quote
Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Sorry you're offended by my moral and spiritual authority. I would hope you would be secure enough in yourself to not let the actions of someone online influence your emotional state, but hope doesn't really matter when it comes to the perceptions and inner workings of individuals.
I'm sorry my words upset you. Hopefully you can find it within yourself to get over it.
Lets pretend I'm an eve veteran trying to score points:
HTFU 1/10 This thread tells us a lot more about you than it does about the EVE player community.
Whatever you wish to take away from it!
I'm sure there are some who can look at this thread and think to themselves:
Wow look at all of these people insisting on arguing for their right to be bad people, while not having to be judged for their actions!
it's all open to interpretation. Only difference is, I'm not the one trying to control you. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:37:00 -
[195] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:You've felt it necessary to challenge me. Why? I would ask you why you feel it necessary to come on here and trumpet your self assumed moral superiority? If you actually have nothing to prove, why try so very, very hard to prove it?
You're one asking questions of me. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1319
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:37:00 -
[196] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Ai Shun wrote:And that's another thing you're missing.
If I were to come after (I'll bump you with my Badger ... let's see how that goes for me ... ) it wouldn't be to upset you.
It would be because, in the context of a game filled with pirates and bounty hunters causing somebody to lose ISK, no matter how negligible it makes sense. To fill the void of space with the vented gasses of a pod, to know that you can claim a kill of another loud mouthed braggart that swaggered through Jita, broadcasting his superiority over all and knowing that you brought the arrogant prick low.
Having his frozen corpse in your hangar is just a bonus So because someone claims to be better than you, it upsets you? Are you so insecure? If you'll claim that none of this really matters since it's all game LOL LETS KILL PEOPLE FOR FUN, then why will you let anything that happens online stir you into an affected state? Why would you let yourself be so easily manipulated? Oh dearie me, you struggle with context and comprehension. Ask yourself. What would Jack Sparrow do if another pirate claimed he was the greatest pirate in the Caribbean? What about Gredo and Boba Fett? How would they have reacted if another claimed to be better than them? Right-eo. Now you have a bit of motiviation for a character of a pirate and a bounty hunter played in a video game. Maybe that character feels insecure, I don't know. It would be a bit odd for a player to project that type of feeling onto a character (Most roleplayers I know can't handle that kind of character depth although there are a few good ones) Why do you assume that my real world self is any way affected by the motivations and actions of characters in a video game? Is the separation of the pretend world and reality something you struggle with normally? Edit: You realise we're not really in Jita right now, do you? Because you obviously care enough to try and prove me wrong. I've influenced you. Simply by stating the obvious: People who do bad things are bad people. You've felt it necessary to challenge me. Why? Well I don't know what you tell yourself, but my perception is because you can't handle someone making judgements. Like you feel that your mentality is so strong, correct, and righteous that anyone doing something out of the realm of what you feel should be the norm needs to be corrected by you. Now I can understand that there's a potential similarity in what it is I'm doing. But here's my defense: I'm not trying to correct the actions being done that leads me to believe they are bad people. I'm simply stating my interpretation of what I observe. I don't even think I initially made a statement towards anyone in particular. I made over arching statements addressed to whomever wished to see, and people chose to respond to me directly, which imo, justified my responding to their directly addressing me. Did I start any sentences or quote you first at all saying: Vran DalEsra! I am requesting an audience! No, in fact it was the other way around. I made a statement, and you all came to me.
LOL - Nothing that you have said does anything to change the fact that you're lost. You get into that Blackbird yet noob? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Vran DalEsra
Vran DalEsra Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:39:00 -
[197] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Did I start any sentences or quote you first at all saying: Vran DalEsra! I am requesting an audience!
No, in fact it was the other way around. I made a statement, and you all came to me.
I came in here with semi-noble intentions of possibly addressing a valid point made by a new member of EVE, instead I find myself dealing with immature, narcissistic rantings and circular reasoning.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2703
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:39:00 -
[198] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:You've felt it necessary to challenge me. Why? I would ask you why you feel it necessary to come on here and trumpet your self assumed moral superiority? If you actually have nothing to prove, why try so very, very hard to prove it? You're one asking questions of me.
I am, yes. You decline to participate in the discussion? Because if you want an echo chamber, there are certainly better venues. I suggest a street corner. Bonus points if you get a cardboard sign. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Vran DalEsra
Vran DalEsra Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:41:00 -
[199] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Whatever you wish to take away from it!
I'm sure there are some who can look at this thread and think to themselves:
Wow look at all of these people insisting on arguing for their right to be bad people, while not having to be judged for their actions!
it's all open to interpretation. Only difference is, I'm not the one trying to control you.
I'm not arguing about any sort of 'right to be bad'
I'm not trying to control anyone.
If anything, I'm pointing out how hostile and negative you are being which is plainly obvious. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:41:00 -
[200] - Quote
Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Did I start any sentences or quote you first at all saying: Vran DalEsra! I am requesting an audience!
No, in fact it was the other way around. I made a statement, and you all came to me.
I came in here with semi-noble intentions of possibly addressing a valid point made by a new member of EVE, instead I find myself dealing with immature, narcissistic rantings and circular reasoning.
The ol' I was going to be nice but not anymore routine.
If you don't want to talk to me, then stop talking to me. What is it about that you don't understand? And now you're insulting me? How broken are you? |
|
Ai Shun
1113
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:41:00 -
[201] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Did I start any sentences or quote you first at all saying: Vran DalEsra! I am requesting an audience!
Even if you did it would have no impact. I'm not Vran DalEsra. Are you blending people in your mind without really listening to them or trying to understand them? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:42:00 -
[202] - Quote
Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Whatever you wish to take away from it!
I'm sure there are some who can look at this thread and think to themselves:
Wow look at all of these people insisting on arguing for their right to be bad people, while not having to be judged for their actions!
it's all open to interpretation. Only difference is, I'm not the one trying to control you.
I'm not arguing about any sort of 'right to be bad' I'm not trying to control anyone. If anything, I'm pointing out how hostile and negative you are being which is plainly obvious.
You speak of negativity and hostility when just a post earlier you insult me.
You lose. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:54:00 -
[203] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Did I start any sentences or quote you first at all saying: Vran DalEsra! I am requesting an audience!
Even if you did it would have no impact. I'm not Vran DalEsra. Are you blending people in your mind without really listening to them or trying to understand them?
eh, whatever. I quoted your post and looked for your name in the post itself. The one I saw was the one I used. Regardless of what name was used, I did not summon you. |
Vran DalEsra
Vran DalEsra Corporation
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 01:55:00 -
[204] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
You speak of negativity and hostility when just a post earlier you insult me.
You lose.
I'm well aware of my insult to you, it was purposeful and done without any sort of hypocrisy.
I was pointing out yours. This thread isn't about me at all. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:01:00 -
[205] - Quote
Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You speak of negativity and hostility when just a post earlier you insult me.
You lose.
I'm well aware of my insult to you, it was purposeful and done without any sort of hypocrisy. I was pointing out yours. This thread isn't about me at all.
Well thanks for proving my point I guess, my point being the agreement that the people on these forums are so negative, and so hostile by being so yourself.
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:07:00 -
[206] - Quote
They are, bit by bit, pulling you down to their low level.
Dont fall for it. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2703
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:09:00 -
[207] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:They are, bit by bit, pulling you down to their low level.
Dont fall for it.
He already has. He subscribed. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1321
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:10:00 -
[208] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:They are, bit by bit, pulling you down to their low level.
Dont fall for it. He already has. He subscribed.
I think Riot Girl said it best when she said, "Oh God."
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Ai Shun
1113
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:14:00 -
[209] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:They are, bit by bit, pulling you down to their low level.
Dont fall for it.
This is why, every morning when I wake up, I put on my "Chaotic Evil" ring from Neverwinter Nights. To get into the mood, so to speak, for pulling innocent virgins into my pool of depravity. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2560
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:17:00 -
[210] - Quote
Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You speak of negativity and hostility when just a post earlier you insult me.
You lose.
I'm well aware of my insult to you, it was purposeful and done without any sort of hypocrisy. I was pointing out yours. This thread isn't about me at all.
Don't worry, we've well and truly established DE's nature on the forums. You did nothing wrong other than engaging him at all. This one is best ignored. Unless you see him in-game, then it's shoot-on-site. Repeatedly. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:36:00 -
[211] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You speak of negativity and hostility when just a post earlier you insult me.
You lose.
I'm well aware of my insult to you, it was purposeful and done without any sort of hypocrisy. I was pointing out yours. This thread isn't about me at all. Don't worry, we've well and truly established DE's nature on the forums. You did nothing wrong other than engaging him at all. This one is best ignored. Unless you see him in-game, then it's shoot-on-sight. Repeatedly.
You can establish my nature to yourself all you want.
At the end of the day, I'm not the one I'm perceiving to be pathetic because they feel it necessary to impose involuntary pvp on those looking to play a game based on choice via other avenues.
I mean, it's pretty simple. . . . there's more to the game than PvP, but your choice of imposing it on those who wish to avoid it are applauded? lol, that's funny.
People who do bad things are bad people. Internet doesn't make you another person. You are still you. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1324
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:41:00 -
[212] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You speak of negativity and hostility when just a post earlier you insult me.
You lose.
I'm well aware of my insult to you, it was purposeful and done without any sort of hypocrisy. I was pointing out yours. This thread isn't about me at all. Don't worry, we've well and truly established DE's nature on the forums. You did nothing wrong other than engaging him at all. This one is best ignored. Unless you see him in-game, then it's shoot-on-sight. Repeatedly. You can establish my nature to yourself all you want. At the end of the day, I'm not the one I'm perceiving to be pathetic because they feel it necessary to impose involuntary pvp on those looking to play a game based on choice via other avenues. I mean, it's pretty simple. . . . there's more to the game than PvP, but your choice of imposing it on those who wish to avoid it are applauded? lol, that's funny.People who do bad things are bad people. Internet doesn't make you another person. You are still you.
Confirming i beat my sister at chess. She didn't want to play but I talked her into it. Felt so guilty I went to confession and the monseigneur told me to GTFO.*
It is funny. What isn't funny is that you don't get it. What's really funny is that you're subscribed to a game you don't want to play because "People are bad". LOL.
*Story is not true. Poster is an non-theist.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2561
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:45:00 -
[213] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You speak of negativity and hostility when just a post earlier you insult me.
You lose.
I'm well aware of my insult to you, it was purposeful and done without any sort of hypocrisy. I was pointing out yours. This thread isn't about me at all. Don't worry, we've well and truly established DE's nature on the forums. You did nothing wrong other than engaging him at all. This one is best ignored. Unless you see him in-game, then it's shoot-on-sight. Repeatedly. I mean, it's pretty simple. . . . there's more to the game than PvP, but your choice of imposing it on those who wish to avoid it are applauded? lol, that's funny.
You say this as if you believe you should be able to avoid PVP, and I think as a result, you're misunderstanding. I'm not being applauded for imposing non-consensual PVP, because in this game, you consent to PVP the moment you undock, whether you're looking for it or not.
No, I'm not being applauded for that at all. You're merely being told how EVE works, and has for over ten years, and then ridiculed, deservingly, when you ignore everything that's explained to you. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:49:00 -
[214] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Vran DalEsra wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You speak of negativity and hostility when just a post earlier you insult me.
You lose.
I'm well aware of my insult to you, it was purposeful and done without any sort of hypocrisy. I was pointing out yours. This thread isn't about me at all. Don't worry, we've well and truly established DE's nature on the forums. You did nothing wrong other than engaging him at all. This one is best ignored. Unless you see him in-game, then it's shoot-on-sight. Repeatedly. I mean, it's pretty simple. . . . there's more to the game than PvP, but your choice of imposing it on those who wish to avoid it are applauded? lol, that's funny. You say this as if you believe you should be able to avoid PVP, and I think as a result, you're misunderstanding. I'm not being applauded for imposing non-consensual PVP, because in this game, you consent to PVP the moment you undock, whether you're looking for it or not. No, I'm not being applauded for that at all. You're merely being told how EVE works, and has for over ten years, and then ridiculed, deservingly, when you ignore everything that's explained to you.
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's consensual. A woman doesn't go to a bar to drink with her friends, get roofied and abused, only to understand it as her fault and no consequence should come to the perpetrator.
Just because the possibility to be assaulted by someone online exists doesn't mean that when it happens it should be non-consequential.
I'm not stating a real consequence even needs to be placed other than those perpetrators accepting that their actions are considered despicable by those with morals.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2703
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:54:00 -
[215] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's consensual. A woman doesn't go to a bar to drink with her friends, get roofied and abused, only to understand it as her fault and no consequence should come to the perpetrator.
Just because the possibility to be assaulted by someone online exists doesn't mean that when it happens it should be non-consequential.
I'm not stating a real consequence even needs to be placed other than those perpetrators accepting that their actions are considered despicable by those with morals.
The fact that you equate being ganked in a game with being date-raped is very telling of precisely what's wrong with you. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:57:00 -
[216] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's consensual. A woman doesn't go to a bar to drink with her friends, get roofied and abused, only to understand it as her fault and no consequence should come to the perpetrator.
Just because the possibility to be assaulted by someone online exists doesn't mean that when it happens it should be non-consequential.
I'm not stating a real consequence even needs to be placed other than those perpetrators accepting that their actions are considered despicable by those with morals.
The fact that you equate being ganked in a game with being date-raped is very telling of precisely what's wrong with you.
Assault is assault.
Demanding a 1.2 billion isk ransom is similar to a guy pulling a gun and demanding all $30 in someone's wallet. |
Ai Shun
1118
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:58:00 -
[217] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:You say this as if you believe you should be able to avoid PVP, and I think as a result, you're misunderstanding. I'm not being applauded for imposing non-consensual PVP, because in this game, you consent to PVP the moment you undock, whether you're looking for it or not.
Not undock, but login.
All of EVE is PVP and station trading and mining have the same impact as ship to ship combat. They all explore the concept of risk and reward, winning and losing where simply by participating in EVE players expose themselves to it. You can't escape it - if you play any aspect of the game you are in competition with other players who may or may not be aware of that competition.
Yes, some delusional people will call you names for that and suggest that you're an inhuman animal with no morality. It's an opinion - a wrong one - but still an opinion. Probably about as hateful as what the OP was talking about and a good example of forum based negativity, but what can you do apart from reporting the posts directly insulting people and calling them names?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2705
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:01:00 -
[218] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Assault is assault.
Unless it's not. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
mr ed thehouseofed
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
460
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:01:00 -
[219] - Quote
everyone needs to calm down and have some cake real gamers only need one toon-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:02:00 -
[220] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:You say this as if you believe you should be able to avoid PVP, and I think as a result, you're misunderstanding. I'm not being applauded for imposing non-consensual PVP, because in this game, you consent to PVP the moment you undock, whether you're looking for it or not. Not undock, but login. All of EVE is PVP and station trading and mining have the same impact as ship to ship combat. They all explore the concept of risk and reward, winning and losing where simply by participating in EVE players expose themselves to it. You can't escape it - if you play any aspect of the game you are in competition with other players who may or may not be aware of that competition. Yes, some delusional people will call you names for that and suggest that you're an inhuman animal with no morality. It's an opinion - a wrong one - but still an opinion. Probably about as hateful as what the OP was talking about and a good example of forum based negativity, but what can you do apart from reporting the posts directly insulting people and calling them names?
Someone mining a rock isn't griefing.
Someone killing a guy mining a rock is. |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2706
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:03:00 -
[221] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Someone mining a rock isn't griefing.
Hell yeah it is. Those poor asteroids... *sniffle* Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:05:00 -
[222] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Someone mining a rock isn't griefing.
Hell yeah it is. Those poor asteroids... *sniffle*
haha, that's humorous. Applying human qualities on rocks. As if something that does not live is capable of feeling. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2706
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:08:00 -
[223] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Someone mining a rock isn't griefing.
Hell yeah it is. Those poor asteroids... *sniffle* haha, that's humorous. Applying human qualities on rocks. As if something that does not live is capable of feeling.
If you refine me, do I not break down into my component elements? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1326
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:09:00 -
[224] - Quote
mr ed thehouseofed wrote:everyone needs to calm down and have some cake
If I take the cake I'm a bad person for real!
Doesn't that just take the cake.
INB4 the guy who likes cake comes to like all the cake.
...and Battleships.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2562
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:10:00 -
[225] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's consensual. A woman doesn't go to a bar to drink with her friends, get roofied and abused, only to understand it as her fault and no consequence should come to the perpetrator.
Just because the possibility to be assaulted by someone online exists doesn't mean that when it happens it should be non-consequential.
I'm not stating a real consequence even needs to be placed other than those perpetrators accepting that their actions are considered despicable by those with morals.
The fact that you equate being ganked in a game with being date-raped is very telling of precisely what's wrong with you. Assault is assault. Demanding a 1.2 billion isk ransom is similar to a guy pulling a gun and demanding all $30 in someone's wallet.
No, no it's not. Assault in the real world is assault. You're talking about coming under attack in a video game. Again, there's that problem you're having with separating fantasy from reality, ethereal pixels from tangible flesh. You aren't losing a damn thing when your pixels explode, not a damn thing. Playing this game and doing well at it is not a requirement for your survival and irrelevant to your rights as a human being, so when you equate it with **** or any other form of assault, what you're actually saying is that the victims of those crimes are no worse off than a gamer who loses a fake Hulk. How incredibly insensitive of you. I mean, what a jerk.
When I say the moment you undock, you consent to PVP, what I'm referring to is that in this game, you should be prepared to come under attack every time you undock. What you think of the people attacking you is irrelevant, as are most of your opinions by the looks of it. What actually happens, and what could happen, on the other hand, is what really matters here. If you're not prepared for what could happen, then you'll fail at EVE, and it will be nobody's fault but your own. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2562
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:11:00 -
[226] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:mr ed thehouseofed wrote:everyone needs to calm down and have some cake If I take the cake I'm a bad person for real! Doesn't that just take the cake. INB4 the guy who likes cake comes to like all the cake. ...and Battleships.
The cake is a lie. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Yvonnelein
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:15:00 -
[227] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Someone mining a rock isn't griefing. I went looking for some veldspar to mine for my career agent only to find the entire rookie system had been swept clean by a bunch of griefers in retrievers! And the next one too. I had to mine 2 systems away. Damn psychos with their strip miners!! |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:16:00 -
[228] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's consensual. A woman doesn't go to a bar to drink with her friends, get roofied and abused, only to understand it as her fault and no consequence should come to the perpetrator.
Just because the possibility to be assaulted by someone online exists doesn't mean that when it happens it should be non-consequential.
I'm not stating a real consequence even needs to be placed other than those perpetrators accepting that their actions are considered despicable by those with morals.
The fact that you equate being ganked in a game with being date-raped is very telling of precisely what's wrong with you. Assault is assault. Demanding a 1.2 billion isk ransom is similar to a guy pulling a gun and demanding all $30 in someone's wallet. No, no it's not. Assault in the real world is assault. You're talking about coming under attack in a video game. Again, there's that problem you're having with separating fantasy from reality, ethereal pixels from tangible flesh. You aren't losing a damn thing when your pixels explode, not a damn thing. Playing this game and doing well at it is not a requirement for your survival and irrelevant to your rights as a human being, so when you equate it with **** or any other form of assault, what you're actually saying is that the victims of those crimes are no worse off than a gamer who loses a fake Hulk. How incredibly insensitive of you. I mean, what a jerk. When I say the moment you undock, you consent to PVP, what I'm referring to is that in this game, you should be prepared to come under attack every time you undock. What you think of the people attacking you is irrelevant, as are most of your opinions by the looks of it. What actually happens, and what could happen, on the other hand, is what really matters here. If you're not prepared for what could happen, then you'll fail at EVE, and it will be nobody's fault but your own.
Separating fantasy from reality.
Lets have an example.
I'm mining in my procurer in .6 space. You're flying a, really awesome ship capable of blowing up a procurer.
You see me, blow me up. I lose about 40 million worth of ship and parts. You gain 10 million isk.
You chose to blow me up for your personal enjoyment. To know that you're hurting my progress. You had no motivation other than your belief that I'm being hurt by you.
Now, that's you and I. Your choices to inflict pain on me when I'm operating in a fashion that demonstrates no desire to inflict pain on you.
What's fantasy about you choosing to try and hurt someone?
lets say I send a virus to your computer and cause your EVE files to corrupt. Now you have to spend like, Lets just say another 4 hours of your time to redownload and reinstall. I just wasted 4 hours of your time. I didn't have to, but I did.
How is my choice different than yours? If you didn't want me to send you a virus, you wouldn't have connected to the internet.
|
Ai Shun
1119
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:17:00 -
[229] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Someone mining a rock isn't griefing.
Hell yeah it is. Those poor asteroids... *sniffle*
Not quite what I meant, Kaarous
A miner selling his minerals (Or the product of those minerals) is in competition with other miners and has a direct confrontational relationship with the Industrial consumers of those minerals. They have opposing outcomes from the transaction in the same way that an attacking pilot and a defending pilot has in the pew-pew.
From the miners perspective, he'd want the optimal price for his minerals and the buyer wants to get the lowest possible price (Free if possible, looted from a burning hulk if not to keep with our evil theme). The miner and the industrialist makes this decision to enter a universe of competition and strife at the time they login, the same as the combat pilots do.
You can't escape an impact on other players and in some cases that impact may be undesirable, but it's part of the game. It doesn't make a miner an inhuman psychopath or an animal. He or she is just another gamer enjoying their favourite video game |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1328
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:18:00 -
[230] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's consensual. A woman doesn't go to a bar to drink with her friends, get roofied and abused, only to understand it as her fault and no consequence should come to the perpetrator.
Just because the possibility to be assaulted by someone online exists doesn't mean that when it happens it should be non-consequential.
I'm not stating a real consequence even needs to be placed other than those perpetrators accepting that their actions are considered despicable by those with morals.
The fact that you equate being ganked in a game with being date-raped is very telling of precisely what's wrong with you. Assault is assault. Demanding a 1.2 billion isk ransom is similar to a guy pulling a gun and demanding all $30 in someone's wallet. No, no it's not. Assault in the real world is assault. You're talking about coming under attack in a video game. Again, there's that problem you're having with separating fantasy from reality, ethereal pixels from tangible flesh. You aren't losing a damn thing when your pixels explode, not a damn thing. Playing this game and doing well at it is not a requirement for your survival and irrelevant to your rights as a human being, so when you equate it with **** or any other form of assault, what you're actually saying is that the victims of those crimes are no worse off than a gamer who loses a fake Hulk. How incredibly insensitive of you. I mean, what a jerk. When I say the moment you undock, you consent to PVP, what I'm referring to is that in this game, you should be prepared to come under attack every time you undock. What you think of the people attacking you is irrelevant, as are most of your opinions by the looks of it. What actually happens, and what could happen, on the other hand, is what really matters here. If you're not prepared for what could happen, then you'll fail at EVE, and it will be nobody's fault but your own. Separating fantasy from reality. Lets have an example. I'm mining in my procurer in .6 space. You're flying a, really awesome ship capable of blowing up a procurer. You see me, blow me up. I lose about 40 million worth of ship and parts. You gain 10 million isk. You chose to blow me up for your personal enjoyment. To know that you're hurting my progress. You had no motivation other than your belief that I'm being hurt by you. Now, that's you and I. Your choices to inflict pain on me when I'm operating in a fashion that demonstrates no desire to inflict pain on you. What's fantasy about you choosing to try and hurt someone? lets say I send a virus to your computer and cause your EVE files to corrupt. Now you have to spend like, Lets just say another 4 hours of your time to redownload and reinstall. I just wasted 4 hours of your time. I didn't have to, but I did. How is my choice different than yours? If you didn't want me to send you a virus, you wouldn't have connected to the internet.
Because your choice is illegal. His choice is in game you halfwit. LOL
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1013
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:21:00 -
[231] - Quote
Divine Intervention wrote:Assault is assault.
How is 'assault' defined in a PVP video game? If I'm walking down the street I wouldn't expect someone to come up to me, throw me to the ground, and start pounding me either, but if I stepped into an MMA octagon I certainly would.
Divine Intervention wrote:Demanding a 1.2 billion isk ransom is similar to a guy pulling a gun and demanding all $30 in someone's wallet.
This is why I really hate the "real world equivalent dollars!" simile that get bandied about whenever EVE gets any press: Until you can show me a completely legit way in which you can convert 1.2 billion ISK into $30, you're just wrong.
You can spend $30 to get about 1.2 billion ISK, true, but you can also get it looting PVP wrecks, running incursions, exploring, etc. If you earn 1.2 billion ISK in game, it's worth... 1.2 billion ISK. The PLEX buys game time, whether for you or for someone else. The side effect that you can use that game time as a quick way to make some ISK does not establish an equivalence between EVE ISK and real-world currency. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:23:00 -
[232] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Someone mining a rock isn't griefing.
Hell yeah it is. Those poor asteroids... *sniffle* Not quite what I meant, Kaarous A miner selling his minerals (Or the product of those minerals) is in competition with other miners and has a direct confrontational relationship with the Industrial consumers of those minerals. They have opposing outcomes from the transaction in the same way that an attacking pilot and a defending pilot has in the pew-pew. From the miners perspective, he'd want the optimal price for his minerals and the buyer wants to get the lowest possible price (Free if possible, looted from a burning hulk if not to keep with our evil theme). The miner and the industrialist makes this decision to enter a universe of competition and strife at the time they login, the same as the combat pilots do. You can't escape an impact on other players and in some cases that impact may be undesirable, but it's part of the game. It doesn't make a miner an inhuman psychopath or an animal. He or she is just another gamer enjoying their favourite video game
There's an impact, and a detrimental impact.
Which do you think agitates a miner less? Another miner mining next to him?
Or a cruiser blowing his ship up? Severity. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:24:00 -
[233] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Divine Intervention wrote:Assault is assault. How is 'assault' defined in a PVP video game? If I'm walking down the street I wouldn't expect someone to come up to me, throw me to the ground, and start pounding me either, but if I stepped into an MMA octagon I certainly would. Divine Intervention wrote:Demanding a 1.2 billion isk ransom is similar to a guy pulling a gun and demanding all $30 in someone's wallet. This is why I really hate the "real world equivalent dollars!" simile that get bandied about whenever EVE gets any press: Until you can show me a completely legit way in which you can convert 1.2 billion ISK into $30, you're just wrong. You can spend $30 to get about 1.2 billion ISK, true, but you can also get it looting PVP wrecks, running incursions, exploring, etc. If you earn 1.2 billion ISK in game, it's worth... 1.2 billion ISK. The PLEX buys game time, whether for you or for someone else. The side effect that you can use that game time as a quick way to make some ISK does not establish an equivalence between EVE ISK and real-world currency.
Stealing is stealing.
Value is value. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:26:00 -
[234] - Quote
You guys seem to have super short memories so I'm going to say this again, since I feel I have to because alot of you keep approaching this like I'm trying to take away your shiny toy.
You should be allowed to be an ******* to people in EVE. I'm not asking CCP to establish a system, or change anything to prevent you from being whoever you want to be.
I'm only stating that you have to accept that I and anyone else who wants to, is allowed to think less of you for your choices.
I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wish you weren't the type of person who became upset easily over others opinions. I wish you were more secure in yourself. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1330
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:28:00 -
[235] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Divine Intervention wrote:Assault is assault. How is 'assault' defined in a PVP video game? If I'm walking down the street I wouldn't expect someone to come up to me, throw me to the ground, and start pounding me either, but if I stepped into an MMA octagon I certainly would. Divine Intervention wrote:Demanding a 1.2 billion isk ransom is similar to a guy pulling a gun and demanding all $30 in someone's wallet. This is why I really hate the "real world equivalent dollars!" simile that get bandied about whenever EVE gets any press: Until you can show me a completely legit way in which you can convert 1.2 billion ISK into $30, you're just wrong. You can spend $30 to get about 1.2 billion ISK, true, but you can also get it looting PVP wrecks, running incursions, exploring, etc. If you earn 1.2 billion ISK in game, it's worth... 1.2 billion ISK. The PLEX buys game time, whether for you or for someone else. The side effect that you can use that game time as a quick way to make some ISK does not establish an equivalence between EVE ISK and real-world currency. Stealing is stealing Value is value.
Stealing in a game is not stealing in the real world. If it were there would be laws against it.
Value in game is not value in the real world. If it were you could buy hookers and blow with PLEX.
Are you sure you don't have some disassociation issues...? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:30:00 -
[236] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:[quote=Dersen Lowery]
Stealing is stealing.
Value is value.
1st. Wow, this is still going?
2nd. It's a game. The best comparison would be playing something like multiplayer Civ back in the day. (Master of Orion might be closer.) Just because you choose to play a peaceful builder, doesn't mean that your neighbor needs to be nice to you.
3rd. I can see your real fun is on the forums, not in the game, apparently. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:30:00 -
[237] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Separating fantasy from reality.
Lets have an example.
I'm mining in my procurer in .6 space. You're flying a, really awesome ship capable of blowing up a procurer.
You see me, blow me up. I lose about 40 million worth of ship and parts. You gain 10 million isk.
No, you lost nothing. That money, it isn't real. Fantasy money =/= real money. Are you getting it yet?
Quote:You chose to blow me up for your personal enjoyment. To know that you're hurting my progress. You had no motivation other than your belief that I'm being hurt by you.
Now, that's you and I. Your choices to inflict pain on me when I'm operating in a fashion that demonstrates no desire to inflict pain on you.
What's fantasy about you choosing to try and hurt someone?
And here you assume two things: 1. that your grief is a prerequisite for my enjoyment, without considering that the explosion of a mining barge is actually sufficient, and 2. that I'm actually hurting you in some way. Remember The Matrix? There is no spoon. I can't hurt what isn't really there.
Quote:lets say I send a virus to your computer and cause your EVE files to corrupt. Now you have to spend like, Lets just say another 4 hours of your time to redownload and reinstall. I just wasted 4 hours of your time. I didn't have to, but I did.
Ah, now see, that would be damage to actual real-world property. Not that you could get a virus onto my computer, but there is a difference between causing actual harm to actual property or people and firing pixelated lasers at pixelated spaceships. If you can't understand that difference, then you'll never get EVE, you'll never do well at it, because it's designed around the permaloss of 'stuff' that you can accumulate. That is, if you can't handle losing 'stuff' in EVE, regardless of the circumstances of its loss (unless it's an actual server fault or bug in the game), then you can't handle EVE. That's the bottom line.
Quote:How is my choice different than yours? If you didn't want me to send you a virus, you wouldn't have connected to the internet.
The difference is still between fantasy and reality. You have actually defined it well, but clearly can't tell the difference. Let me clarify, one last time: putting a virus on a computer causes real harm to real property; blowing up internet spaceships, which aren't real, is doing no harm at all to anyone or anything, because pixelated stuff isn't real stuff. Do you understand yet or are you going to ignore this completely too?
I'm actually going to bank on total ignorance, since that's all you've been able to demonstrate so far as this gets explained to you time and again, over and over. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1330
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:30:00 -
[238] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You guys seem to have super short memories so I'm going to say this again, since I feel I have to because alot of you keep approaching this like I'm trying to take away your shiny toy.
You should be allowed to be an ******* to people in EVE. I'm not asking CCP to establish a system, or change anything to prevent you from being whoever you want to be.
I'm only stating that you have to accept that I and anyone else who wants to, is allowed to think less of you for your choices.
I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wish you weren't the type of person who became upset easily over others opinions. I wish you were more secure in yourself.
If you want to spend pages of the forums telling us how little you think of us and not expect us to tell you what we think of you, then you've got about as much sense as a bag of hammers.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:34:00 -
[239] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You guys seem to have super short memories so I'm going to say this again, since I feel I have to because alot of you keep approaching this like I'm trying to take away your shiny toy.
You should be allowed to be an ******* to people in EVE. I'm not asking CCP to establish a system, or change anything to prevent you from being whoever you want to be.
I'm only stating that you have to accept that I and anyone else who wants to, is allowed to think less of you for your choices.
I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wish you weren't the type of person who became upset easily over others opinions. I wish you were more secure in yourself.
You can think whatever you want to think. I'm only stating that you have to accept that I and anyone else who wants to is allowed to think less of you for thinking stupid stuff out loud. I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wish you were more secure in yourself. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1331
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:36:00 -
[240] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You guys seem to have super short memories so I'm going to say this again, since I feel I have to because alot of you keep approaching this like I'm trying to take away your shiny toy.
You should be allowed to be an ******* to people in EVE. I'm not asking CCP to establish a system, or change anything to prevent you from being whoever you want to be.
I'm only stating that you have to accept that I and anyone else who wants to, is allowed to think less of you for your choices.
I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wish you weren't the type of person who became upset easily over others opinions. I wish you were more secure in yourself. You can think whatever you want to think. I'm only stating that you have to accept that I and anyone else who wants to is allowed to think less of you for thinking stupid stuff out loud. I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wish you were more secure in yourself.
I wish his FW corp would give him a little more direction. His lack of any apparent knowledge is quite troubling. What kind of FW Corp tells their pilots to get into a Kitsune before getting into a Blackbird...?
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2709
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:39:00 -
[241] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You guys seem to have super short memories so I'm going to say this again, since I feel I have to because alot of you keep approaching this like I'm trying to take away your shiny toy.
You should be allowed to be an ******* to people in EVE. I'm not asking CCP to establish a system, or change anything to prevent you from being whoever you want to be.
I'm only stating that you have to accept that I and anyone else who wants to, is allowed to think less of you for your choices.
I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wish you weren't the type of person who became upset easily over others opinions. I wish you were more secure in yourself. You can think whatever you want to think. I'm only stating that you have to accept that I and anyone else who wants to is allowed to think less of you for thinking stupid stuff out loud. I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wish you were more secure in yourself. I wish his FW corp would give him a little more direction. His lack of any apparent knowledge is quite troubling. What kind of FW Corp tells their pilots to get into a Kitsune before getting into a Blackbird...?
It highlights the fact that there remains a genuine need to be able to attack your own corp members. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:40:00 -
[242] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Separating fantasy from reality.
Lets have an example.
I'm mining in my procurer in .6 space. You're flying a, really awesome ship capable of blowing up a procurer.
You see me, blow me up. I lose about 40 million worth of ship and parts. You gain 10 million isk.
No, you lost nothing. That money, it isn't real. Fantasy money =/= real money. Are you getting it yet? Quote:You chose to blow me up for your personal enjoyment. To know that you're hurting my progress. You had no motivation other than your belief that I'm being hurt by you.
Now, that's you and I. Your choices to inflict pain on me when I'm operating in a fashion that demonstrates no desire to inflict pain on you.
What's fantasy about you choosing to try and hurt someone? And here you assume two things: 1. that your grief is a prerequisite for my enjoyment, without considering that the explosion of a mining barge is actually sufficient, and 2. that I'm actually hurting you in some way. Remember The Matrix? There is no spoon. I can't hurt what isn't really there. Quote:lets say I send a virus to your computer and cause your EVE files to corrupt. Now you have to spend like, Lets just say another 4 hours of your time to redownload and reinstall. I just wasted 4 hours of your time. I didn't have to, but I did. Ah, now see, that would be damage to actual real-world property. Not that you could get a virus onto my computer, but there is a difference between causing actual harm to actual property or people and firing pixelated lasers at pixelated spaceships. If you can't understand that difference, then you'll never get EVE, you'll never do well at it, because it's designed around the permaloss of 'stuff' that you can accumulate. That is, if you can't handle losing 'stuff' in EVE, regardless of the circumstances of its loss (unless it's an actual server fault or bug in the game), then you can't handle EVE. That's the bottom line. Quote:How is my choice different than yours? If you didn't want me to send you a virus, you wouldn't have connected to the internet.
The difference is still between fantasy and reality. You have actually defined it well, but clearly can't tell the difference. Let me clarify, one last time: putting a virus on a computer causes real harm to real property; blowing up internet spaceships, which aren't real, is doing no harm at all to anyone or anything, because pixelated stuff isn't real stuff. Do you understand yet or are you going to ignore this completely too? I'm actually going to bank on total ignorance, since that's all you've been able to demonstrate so far as this gets explained to you time and again, over and over.
It didn't start becoming illegal to send a virus to someone until after around 2000. The internet existed before that.
You claim that a virus would be damage to real world property? Not this hypothetical virus. It's not damaging anything. It's removing your eve installation. Your EvE installation doesn't actually exist. It's merely the combination of zeros and ones that combine into what your computer perceives and operates as an eve installation. It's also not harming anything, only removing it. There fore, no damage is caused, only an action required by you to over come in : redownload/reinstall.
It's still internet/pixel based reasoning.
You say since you're motivation to destroy the mining barge isn't griefing the person, but the action itself IS griefing the person. Just because you don't care, doesn't mean it's not being perceived as such on the other end. What you've said basically is you don't care about anyone other than yourself. You only care about how you feel, everyone else is irrelevant.
Did I not spend 4 hours farming up the ISK to afford to buy and use the procurer? How would your having to spend 4 hours to redownload the game be any different than my loss of time?
Time is a resource. It's a limited commodity.
People's who's objective is to make other's time less enjoyable, time being the most precious thing we have in existence, are despicable people who would make the world better if they did not exist. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2709
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:43:00 -
[243] - Quote
When you have to reach that far to justify a point, everyone else can already see that you've lost the argument. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:45:00 -
[244] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Time is a resource. It's a limited commodity.
People's who's objective is to make other's time less enjoyable, time being the most precious thing we have in existence, are despicable people who would make the world better if they did not exist.
This is true. Consider your posting.... |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4848
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:47:00 -
[245] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
People's who's objective is to make other's time less enjoyable, time being the most precious thing we have in existence, are despicable people who would make the world better if they did not exist.
Ah man, I must suck, because a few years ago i was in Raiden and we help the russians destroy the Northern Coalition. We actually "took" space from them. I did not know I was committing a crime against humanity. I will now commit in-game seppuku...by flying into Rancer in an unarmed thorax......
But serioulsy, you are a piece of work. You seem to have this need to feel superior to others because of actions in a video game. Funny thing is that while you're trying to say those in game actions mean something about bad about the real life players, your posts say the exact same thing about you. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:49:00 -
[246] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Time is a resource. It's a limited commodity.
People's who's objective is to make other's time less enjoyable, time being the most precious thing we have in existence, are despicable people who would make the world better if they did not exist.
This is true. Consider your posting....
Yea not much else to do as a new player in eve! The only real isk generation a new player can perform is all AFK. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:51:00 -
[247] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
People's who's objective is to make other's time less enjoyable, time being the most precious thing we have in existence, are despicable people who would make the world better if they did not exist.
Ah man, I must suck, because a few years ago i was in Raiden and we help the russians destroy the Northern Coalition. We actually "took" space from them. I did not know I was committing a crime against humanity. I will now commit in-game seppuku...by flying into Rancer in an unarmed thorax...... But serioulsy, you are a piece of work. You seem to have this need to feel superior to others because of actions in a video game. Funny thing is that while you're trying to say those in game actions mean something about bad about the real life players, your posts say the exact same thing about you.
No, because they set up shop in null sec. They understood that because of where they chose to live, that there was a potential for someone to take it from them
Good job, it sounds like you had alot of fun. You're not a worse person for it, you were playing the eve null-sec game how it is suppose to be played.
My concerns and comments are more directed towards crimes against humanity in high security systems. People are there for safety. Choosing to remove it and disrupt their desired playstyle is a disrespectful move on the instigating party.
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:53:00 -
[248] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Did I not spend 4 hours farming up the ISK to afford to buy and use the procurer? How would your having to spend 4 hours to redownload the game be any different than my loss of time?
Time is a resource. It's a limited commodity.
Well if it's a harmless virus that just removes my EVE installation, I remove the virus and reinstall EVE. No harm no foul. And if it's harmless, then it's irrelevant to making a harm comparison between fantasy and reality, so you fail again.
And just as it is for anyone, time spent playing video games is not time spent productively, it is time wasted. You spent 4 hours farming virtual resources? No matter how useful those resources are to you in game, that is the limit to their usefulness. You chose to spend that time gathering those resources in a game that you should know from the very beginning that if you cannot defend them from other players, in a single-shard environment, then they were never yours to begin with.
I choose to waste my time playing this game knowing full well that nothing will ever come of it that will affect reality for me. No matter how much stuff I have in this game, it has no bearing on my life, and serves no purpose other than being a bit of fun on the side. When I lose stuff, and I've lost a lot more stuff than you I can guarantee it, it causes me no harm in real life because it had no purpose in my real life to begin with.
Once again, fantasy vs. reality. Harming something or someone in real life =/= exploding internet pixels.
No, you didn't spend 4 hours farming up the ISK to afford to buy and use a Procurer, because the ISK and the Procurer don't exist. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:56:00 -
[249] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
People's who's objective is to make other's time less enjoyable, time being the most precious thing we have in existence, are despicable people who would make the world better if they did not exist.
Ah man, I must suck, because a few years ago i was in Raiden and we help the russians destroy the Northern Coalition. We actually "took" space from them. I did not know I was committing a crime against humanity. I will now commit in-game seppuku...by flying into Rancer in an unarmed thorax...... But serioulsy, you are a piece of work. You seem to have this need to feel superior to others because of actions in a video game. Funny thing is that while you're trying to say those in game actions mean something about bad about the real life players, your posts say the exact same thing about you. No, because they set up shop in null sec. They understood that because of where they chose to live, that there was a potential for someone to take it from them Good job, it sounds like you had alot of fun. You're not a worse person for it, you were playing the eve null-sec game how it is suppose to be played. My concerns and comments are more directed towards crimes against humanity in high security systems. People are there for safety. Choosing to remove it and disrupt their desired playstyle is a disrespectful move on the instigating party.
You are a victim to the illusion that there is no PVP in highsec, that highsec is safe, that highsec is cushy pandaland and nothing can or should be exploded there.
If you learn that this is simply not the case, you'll be able to enjoy the game more. In fact, I tend to find nul and lowsec are much safer than highsec for the simple reason that it's so easy to forget that each and every neutral around you is another player that could well be plotting against you. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1332
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:58:00 -
[250] - Quote
He was cute and fun earlier. Now he's just boring.
You guys go ahead and talk in circles some more with him. He'll be gone in less than 3 months because he clearly has no idea what he's doing and his corp is not helping him in assimilating the game. He's just a numbnuts noob who thinks he knows everything but proves otherwise with every word from his drool drenched keyboard. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:00:00 -
[251] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
People's who's objective is to make other's time less enjoyable, time being the most precious thing we have in existence, are despicable people who would make the world better if they did not exist.
Ah man, I must suck, because a few years ago i was in Raiden and we help the russians destroy the Northern Coalition. We actually "took" space from them. I did not know I was committing a crime against humanity. I will now commit in-game seppuku...by flying into Rancer in an unarmed thorax...... But serioulsy, you are a piece of work. You seem to have this need to feel superior to others because of actions in a video game. Funny thing is that while you're trying to say those in game actions mean something about bad about the real life players, your posts say the exact same thing about you. No, because they set up shop in null sec. They understood that because of where they chose to live, that there was a potential for someone to take it from them Good job, it sounds like you had alot of fun. You're not a worse person for it, you were playing the eve null-sec game how it is suppose to be played. My concerns and comments are more directed towards crimes against humanity in high security systems. People are there for safety. Choosing to remove it and disrupt their desired playstyle is a disrespectful move on the instigating party. You are a victim to the illusion that there is no PVP in highsec, that highsec is safe, that highsec is cushy pandaland and nothing can or should be exploded there. If you learn that this is simply not the case, you'll be able to enjoy the game more. In fact, I tend to find nul and lowsec are much safer than highsec for the simple reason that it's so easy to forget that each and every neutral around you is another player that could well be plotting against you.
Why would someone go to high security space? Why does high security space even exist?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2711
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:02:00 -
[252] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Why would someone go to high security space? Why does high security space even exist?
It exists to give people like you a false sense of security. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:04:00 -
[253] - Quote
Now I have to clarify again because I know you keep thinking I want it removed.
I don't. I don't mind you having the option to be a ****. You can fly around podding miners screaming enthusiastically at the pretty explosions all day long.
But you have to expect that your disregard for people you play the game with leaves you liable to draw their ire. I'm not going to get blown up in high sec by a guy screaming "U MAD" in local chat and not walk away from it thinking he's a douche bag.
Walks like a douchebag, talks like a douchebag, smells sounds like one, then chances are it's a douchebag. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:06:00 -
[254] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Why would someone go to high security space? Why does high security space even exist?
Out of necessity. You can use the rules of high sec to make yourself safer, so this is where the trading takes place, and this is where new players start, with specific protections until they leave their starter systems. But you can never be truly safe. This much is demonstrated every day. High sec is not safe, but you can mitigate the risk yourself by taking advantage of the rules of highsec and preparing yourself for what you should already know can possibly happen there. Like it or not, the moment you undock, if someone outside station in a Tornado decides that for ***** & giggles, they're going to pop you, they can. They will be concorded of course if it's an illegal engagement, but you will lose your ****. If you're not prepared for that, even in highsec, then that's entirely your own failing. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:23:00 -
[255] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Why would someone go to high security space? Why does high security space even exist?
Out of necessity. You can use the rules of high sec to make yourself safer, so this is where the trading takes place, and this is where new players start, with specific protections until they leave their starter systems. But you can never be truly safe. This much is demonstrated every day. High sec is not safe, but you can mitigate the risk yourself by taking advantage of the rules of highsec and preparing yourself for what you should already know can possibly happen there. Like it or not, the moment you undock, if someone outside station in a Tornado decides that for ***** & giggles, they're going to pop you, they can. They will be concorded of course if it's an illegal engagement, but you will lose your ****. If you're not prepared for that, even in highsec, then that's entirely your own failing.
So if someone goes to high security because you think they want to be safer, why is your choosing to make it unsafe for that person not wrong?
The person obviously wants to be safer. He doesn't want you harvesting his tears.
If you're the type of person who wishes to gain enjoyment at diminishing the happiness of someone else, you are a bad person.
We're all people here. If I want to be safe, I don't want to be unsafe. You making me unsafe isn't a requirement. You don't have to. High sec is there for a reason, you choosing to go out of your way to ruin my game play makes you the type of person who goes out of his way to ruin others game play.
If you choose to ruin someone's enjoyment, then you are the type of person who chooses to ruin someone elses enjoyment. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:42:00 -
[256] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Why would someone go to high security space? Why does high security space even exist?
Out of necessity. You can use the rules of high sec to make yourself safer, so this is where the trading takes place, and this is where new players start, with specific protections until they leave their starter systems. But you can never be truly safe. This much is demonstrated every day. High sec is not safe, but you can mitigate the risk yourself by taking advantage of the rules of highsec and preparing yourself for what you should already know can possibly happen there. Like it or not, the moment you undock, if someone outside station in a Tornado decides that for ***** & giggles, they're going to pop you, they can. They will be concorded of course if it's an illegal engagement, but you will lose your ****. If you're not prepared for that, even in highsec, then that's entirely your own failing. So if someone goes to high security because you think they want to be safer, why is your choosing to make it unsafe for that person not wrong? The person obviously wants to be safer. He doesn't want you harvesting his tears. If you're the type of person who wishes to gain enjoyment at diminishing the happiness of someone else, you are a bad person. We're all people here. If I want to be safe, I don't want to be unsafe. You making me unsafe isn't a requirement. You don't have to. High sec is there for a reason, you choosing to go out of your way to ruin my game play makes you the type of person who goes out of his way to ruin others game play. If you choose to ruin someone's enjoyment, then you are the type of person who chooses to ruin someone elses enjoyment.
How am I supposed to know what someone wants going to highsec? No, it's not obvious that they're in highsec because they want to be safer. I'm there because I'm working with rookies. Sometimes I'm there to buy stuff. Simple fact is, if you want to be safe, don't undock. That's pretty much your only option.
And no, I'm not the type of person who enjoys ruining the enjoyment of other players. But then again, I can't ruin the enjoyment of another player, because whether or not they're enjoying the game is entirely up to them. Once again, you fail to grasp this concept. I cannot be a highsec terrorist if everyone I try to terrorise has appropriately mitigated the risk they have chosen to take by undocking.
You also have it on zero authority exactly what I get up to in this game. You have no idea how many new players I've helped, trained, introduced to lowsec and PVP, wh, roamed with, etc.
I think the bottom line is that you just haven't been playing EVE for long enough to understand any of this, when people try to explain it, you ignore them as if you know better, which you simply don't, and you don't have the attitude to learn enough to ever do well. Frankly, this game is better off without players like you, so as far as I'm concerned, whoever griefs you out of it is doing this game, and its community, a solid service.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:51:00 -
[257] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Why would someone go to high security space? Why does high security space even exist?
Out of necessity. You can use the rules of high sec to make yourself safer, so this is where the trading takes place, and this is where new players start, with specific protections until they leave their starter systems. But you can never be truly safe. This much is demonstrated every day. High sec is not safe, but you can mitigate the risk yourself by taking advantage of the rules of highsec and preparing yourself for what you should already know can possibly happen there. Like it or not, the moment you undock, if someone outside station in a Tornado decides that for ***** & giggles, they're going to pop you, they can. They will be concorded of course if it's an illegal engagement, but you will lose your ****. If you're not prepared for that, even in highsec, then that's entirely your own failing. So if someone goes to high security because you think they want to be safer, why is your choosing to make it unsafe for that person not wrong? The person obviously wants to be safer. He doesn't want you harvesting his tears. If you're the type of person who wishes to gain enjoyment at diminishing the happiness of someone else, you are a bad person. We're all people here. If I want to be safe, I don't want to be unsafe. You making me unsafe isn't a requirement. You don't have to. High sec is there for a reason, you choosing to go out of your way to ruin my game play makes you the type of person who goes out of his way to ruin others game play. If you choose to ruin someone's enjoyment, then you are the type of person who chooses to ruin someone elses enjoyment. How am I supposed to know what someone wants going to highsec? No, it's not obvious that they're in highsec because they want to be safer. I'm there because I'm working with rookies. Sometimes I'm there to buy stuff. Simple fact is, if you want to be safe, don't undock. That's pretty much your only option. And no, I'm not the type of person who enjoys ruining the enjoyment of other players. But then again, I can't ruin the enjoyment of another player, because whether or not they're enjoying the game is entirely up to them. Once again, you fail to grasp this concept. I cannot be a highsec terrorist if everyone I try to terrorise has appropriately mitigated the risk they have chosen to take by undocking. You also have it on zero authority exactly what I get up to in this game. You have no idea how many new players I've helped, trained, introduced to lowsec and PVP, wh, roamed with, etc. I think the bottom line is that you just haven't been playing EVE for long enough to understand any of this, when people try to explain it, you ignore them as if you know better, which you simply don't, and you don't have the attitude to learn enough to ever do well. Frankly, this game is better off without players like you, so as far as I'm concerned, whoever griefs you out of it is doing this game, and its community, a solid service.
Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
O yea, it's FFA too. Player holdings, territory, housing, sieges for ownership of holdings. A game where everyone was a potential threat. The entire game was like EVE's nullsec except for only 5% of the game's entire land mass that was split into 6 very small zones of "potential" safety, less safe than eve's high sec and drastically smaller.
Griefing online, was one of it's nicknames. A haven for psychopaths.
I understand this carebare nonsense you guys scream about being hardcore.
And it isn't.
In this game you can click on anyone in local and see their employment history. You can see the day they started playing the game. And for people in this game, just like the last one, people who see that the person they wish to harvest for their enjoyment are just as despicable.
haven't been playing EvE long enough? It's not about EvE, it's about treating other people like people.
A new player in high sec mining veldspar in a retriever isn't looking to PVP. You arguing other wise is proof that your brain is broken and doesn't work properly. Someone choosing to exploit that person in game, is also capable of choosing to exploit people out of game.
You are defined by your actions. No one other than you is sitting behind your keyboard right now.
if you choose to do an action with zero regard to the potential harm it may cause someone, then that is the type of person you are. Self absorbed, self centered, ego centric.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2711
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:54:00 -
[258] - Quote
Quote:So if someone goes to high security because you think they want to be safer, why is your choosing to make it unsafe for that person not wrong?
The person obviously wants to be safer. He doesn't want you harvesting his tears.
Why on earth should I care? I neither require their desire for a fight, nor find it relevant.
The rules of the game permit my actions. That's it. "Checkmate", "Sorry!", "Bingo!" "Jenga!", whatever. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:56:00 -
[259] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Gotta stop you there. Firstly, never heard of it, and you haven't named it, so I'm calling bullshit straight up. Secondly, EVE isn't any other MMO. It isn't any other RPG. It isn't any other game, full stop. It is unique. Do you know what makes it unique? Two words: single-shard. None of this pansy instancing that protects you while you're on a mission, no, everyone exists on the same server at the same time, all the time. That is what makes it 100% PVP, because at any moment, someone could decide to scan down your mission and make a nuisance of themselves.
If you like this other MMO so much, then why aren't you playing that? If it's so much better than EVE, then bugger off back to where you came from. EVE is gonna chew you up and spit you out with your attitude, and it doesn't really want you anyway.
Also, griefing isn't psycopathic. Please indicate in any relevant DSM where griefing on a video game is considered symptomatic of a psychopath and/or sociopath. You can't, because there is no such relevance in any DSM. You are doing nothing but judging, putting a label on people that you don't like. How are you any different any other degenerate arseclown that puts labels on people just because they do things differently to you, or live a different lifestyle, or have a different sexual orientation, or skin colour?? How are you any different from anyone else that stereotypes based on things they don't understand instead of trying to understand them? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:57:00 -
[260] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:So if someone goes to high security because you think they want to be safer, why is your choosing to make it unsafe for that person not wrong?
The person obviously wants to be safer. He doesn't want you harvesting his tears.
Why on earth should I care? I neither require their desire for a fight, nor find it relevant. The rules of the game permit my actions. That's it. "Checkmate", "Sorry!", "Bingo!" "Jenga!", whatever.
Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right.
That's where morality comes into question.
You choosing to do what you can at the expense of others is what defines you as a lesser person. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:58:00 -
[261] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Gotta stop you there. Firstly, never heard of it, and you haven't named it, so I'm calling bullshit straight up. Secondly, EVE isn't any other MMO. It isn't any other RPG. It isn't any other game, full stop. It is unique. Do you know what makes it unique? Two words: single-shard. None of this pansy instancing that protects you while you're on a mission, no, everyone exists on the same server at the same time, all the time. That is what makes it 100% PVP, because at any moment, someone could decide to scan down your mission and make a nuisance of themselves. If you like this other MMO so much, then why aren't you playing that? If it's so much better than EVE, then bugger off back to where you came from. EVE is gonna chew you up and spit you out with your attitude, and it doesn't really want you anyway.
I don't want to mention the name because I don't t hink it's fair to advertise the name of it on EVE's forums. But I'll pm you the name of the game and you can look it up/verify it on your own. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2712
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:59:00 -
[262] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right.
In a videogame, it literally does.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 04:59:00 -
[263] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right.
In a videogame, it literally does.
I disagree |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2712
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:00:00 -
[264] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right.
In a videogame, it literally does. I disagree
Much like with your "they want to be safe", it doesn't matter whether you do or not. That's how the game works. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:01:00 -
[265] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:So if someone goes to high security because you think they want to be safer, why is your choosing to make it unsafe for that person not wrong?
The person obviously wants to be safer. He doesn't want you harvesting his tears.
Why on earth should I care? I neither require their desire for a fight, nor find it relevant. The rules of the game permit my actions. That's it. "Checkmate", "Sorry!", "Bingo!" "Jenga!", whatever. Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right. That's where morality comes into question. You choosing to do what you can at the expense of others is what defines you as a lesser person.
Nope. Don't try to apply your subjective ideas of morality to a video game. There is nothing about the activities of players in a video that defines them as any kind of person. Ever. At all. Nada. No evidence for it. Grow up. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:02:00 -
[266] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Gotta stop you there. Firstly, never heard of it, and you haven't named it, so I'm calling bullshit straight up. Secondly, EVE isn't any other MMO. It isn't any other RPG. It isn't any other game, full stop. It is unique. Do you know what makes it unique? Two words: single-shard. None of this pansy instancing that protects you while you're on a mission, no, everyone exists on the same server at the same time, all the time. That is what makes it 100% PVP, because at any moment, someone could decide to scan down your mission and make a nuisance of themselves. If you like this other MMO so much, then why aren't you playing that? If it's so much better than EVE, then bugger off back to where you came from. EVE is gonna chew you up and spit you out with your attitude, and it doesn't really want you anyway. I don't want to mention the name because I don't t hink it's fair to advertise the name of it on EVE's forums. But I'll pm you the name of the game and you can look it up/verify it on your own.
What? People mention Star Citizen all the time. Now you're just outright bullshitting, not even trying to hide it anymore. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:02:00 -
[267] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:So if someone goes to high security because you think they want to be safer, why is your choosing to make it unsafe for that person not wrong?
The person obviously wants to be safer. He doesn't want you harvesting his tears.
Why on earth should I care? I neither require their desire for a fight, nor find it relevant. The rules of the game permit my actions. That's it. "Checkmate", "Sorry!", "Bingo!" "Jenga!", whatever. Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right. That's where morality comes into question. You choosing to do what you can at the expense of others is what defines you as a lesser person. Nope. Don't try to apply your subjective ideas of morality to a video game. There is nothing about the activities of players in a video that defines them as any kind of person. Ever. At all. Nada. No evidence for it. Grow up.
Why am I not allowed to apply my ideas of morality onto a video game?
Why does my opinion threaten you to the point where you feel I should not be allowed to speak my mind?
Nothing I'm saying is calling for anything you wish to do to be limited. I'm not trying to impact your game play at all. I'm stating my belief, yet you want me to stop doing something that you disagree with when it should be meaningless to you? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2712
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:05:00 -
[268] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Why am I not allowed to apply my ideas of morality onto a video game?
You're allowed to, you're just wrong.
Quote:Why does my opinion threaten you to the point where you feel I should not be allowed to speak my mind?
It doesn't. You keep falling back on that tired old line, and it was a lie when you started it. You don't threaten me, or anyone else here.
So stop flattering yourself that your cute little opinion does anything but make you look the fool.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:07:00 -
[269] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Gotta stop you there. Firstly, never heard of it, and you haven't named it, so I'm calling bullshit straight up. Secondly, EVE isn't any other MMO. It isn't any other RPG. It isn't any other game, full stop. It is unique. Do you know what makes it unique? Two words: single-shard. None of this pansy instancing that protects you while you're on a mission, no, everyone exists on the same server at the same time, all the time. That is what makes it 100% PVP, because at any moment, someone could decide to scan down your mission and make a nuisance of themselves. If you like this other MMO so much, then why aren't you playing that? If it's so much better than EVE, then bugger off back to where you came from. EVE is gonna chew you up and spit you out with your attitude, and it doesn't really want you anyway. I don't want to mention the name because I don't t hink it's fair to advertise the name of it on EVE's forums. But I'll pm you the name of the game and you can look it up/verify it on your own. What? People mention Star Citizen all the time. Now you're just outright bullshitting, not even trying to hide it anymore.
Just because other people do things I consider disrespectful, does not mean I'm going to use their actions as justification to do those things myself.
I'm better than that. I hold myself to a higher standard. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:09:00 -
[270] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Why am I not allowed to apply my ideas of morality onto a video game?
You're allowed to, you're just wrong. Quote:Why does my opinion threaten you to the point where you feel I should not be allowed to speak my mind? It doesn't. You keep falling back on that tired old line, and it was a lie when you started it. You don't threaten me, or anyone else here. So stop flattering yourself that your cute little opinion does anything but make you look the fool.
I wasn't speaking to you.
Is there something in particular you wish to talk with me about?
Or are you going to be a bitter ex girlfriend and continuously prove to me you were never worthy of my time? |
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:10:00 -
[271] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:So if someone goes to high security because you think they want to be safer, why is your choosing to make it unsafe for that person not wrong?
The person obviously wants to be safer. He doesn't want you harvesting his tears.
Why on earth should I care? I neither require their desire for a fight, nor find it relevant. The rules of the game permit my actions. That's it. "Checkmate", "Sorry!", "Bingo!" "Jenga!", whatever. Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right. That's where morality comes into question. You choosing to do what you can at the expense of others is what defines you as a lesser person. Nope. Don't try to apply your subjective ideas of morality to a video game. There is nothing about the activities of players in a video that defines them as any kind of person. Ever. At all. Nada. No evidence for it. Grow up. Why am I not allowed to apply my ideas of morality onto a video game? Why does my opinion threaten you to the point where you feel I should not be allowed to speak my mind? Nothing I'm saying is calling for anything you wish to do to be limited. I'm not trying to impact your game play at all. I'm stating my belief, yet you want me to stop doing something that you disagree with when it should be meaningless to you? Who are you? To tell me what to do . . . .
By accusing us of being immoral, you may be expressing your opinion, which you're rightfully allowed to do, but you're also making an unsubstantiated and insulting personal attack, which is against the forum rules. Additionally, if you have the freedom of expression to make such attacks, and express such opinions, then why does no one else have that same freedom to criticise those opinions?
Why does no one have that same freedom to attack you back? I'm starting to think that calling you a total moron is less of an attack and more of an objective truth based on your own demonstration of being one via observation of your idiotic shitposting. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:11:00 -
[272] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Gotta stop you there. Firstly, never heard of it, and you haven't named it, so I'm calling bullshit straight up. Secondly, EVE isn't any other MMO. It isn't any other RPG. It isn't any other game, full stop. It is unique. Do you know what makes it unique? Two words: single-shard. None of this pansy instancing that protects you while you're on a mission, no, everyone exists on the same server at the same time, all the time. That is what makes it 100% PVP, because at any moment, someone could decide to scan down your mission and make a nuisance of themselves. If you like this other MMO so much, then why aren't you playing that? If it's so much better than EVE, then bugger off back to where you came from. EVE is gonna chew you up and spit you out with your attitude, and it doesn't really want you anyway. I don't want to mention the name because I don't t hink it's fair to advertise the name of it on EVE's forums. But I'll pm you the name of the game and you can look it up/verify it on your own. What? People mention Star Citizen all the time. Now you're just outright bullshitting, not even trying to hide it anymore. Just because other people do things I consider disrespectful, does not mean I'm going to use their actions as justification to do those things myself. I'm better than that. I hold myself to a higher standard.
You aren't though. You're being pretentious. There's no rule against mentioning other games on the forums. None whatsoever. And once again, considering yourself better than others is a surefire way of making yourself less precious than the scum between the toes of those you think you're better than. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
397
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:14:00 -
[273] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Just because other people do things I consider disrespectful, does not mean I'm going to use their actions as justification to do those things myself.. How do you think you are ever going to get into pvp?
Are you going to just offer people a duel and see if they accept? Or convo them in local or privately?
It seems that if you are never going to shoot someone unless you know that they want to be involved in a fight, you are really going to struggle even once you do start because waiting for someone to attack you first before you take any action is a way to a very fast loss.
Also, with the 1 kill you have, did you ask him if it was ok first. You clearly fired missiles at him, so I hope he agreed that you could? eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2712
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:16:00 -
[274] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
I wasn't speaking to you.
And? You posted in a public forum. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:20:00 -
[275] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Just because other people do things I consider disrespectful, does not mean I'm going to use their actions as justification to do those things myself.. How do you think you are ever going to get into pvp? Are you going to just offer people a duel and see if they accept? Or convo them in local or privately? It seems that if you are never going to shoot someone unless you know that they want to be involved in a fight, you are really going to struggle even once you do start because waiting for someone to attack you first before you take any action is a way to a very fast loss. Also, with the 1 kill you have, did you ask him if it was ok first. You clearly fired missiles at him, so I hope he agreed that you could?
Well being in faction warfare with other people who've signed up for it, I'm going to search for war targets. Every person in FW has chosen to involve themselves in a war. It's agreed upon.
That makes sense, right? |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:24:00 -
[276] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I joined a fail FW alliance as a newb and they don't really teach me anything because they're pretty terrible themselves, I'm not learning anything from them, I keep losing ships in lowsec and I know that it happens, but it's getting rather annoying and I'd like some help. What can I do?
There, was that so hard? See, when you're not being a pretentious prick, when you're reaching out and being humble, admitting you don't know enough to get by and you need to learn more, people will be more inclined to help. So just this one time, I'm going to write the post that you were too busy saving face and trying to defend your idiotic viewpoints of morality in videogames to write.
Okay, first thing to do is, get the hell out of that terrible alliance ASAP, and get out of FW as well until you've learned more about the game. It's not really for rookies unless you join a group that can actually take you somewhere. You haven't joined such a group, you've joined an alliance that is, quite literally, a failure.
Once you've left them, and FW, you can gather your sanity a little and check out EVE University. They will actually help you learn. You will still lose ships, we all do, even players with 100mil SP (especially them since more often than not, they are victims of their own hubris.... in fact, it's a trap that with your pretentious nature, you're likely to fall into yourself once you start getting kills, so be careful of that). You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
398
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:24:00 -
[277] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Well being in faction warfare with other people who've signed up for it, I'm going to search for war targets. Every person in FW has chosen to involve themselves in a war. It's agreed upon.
That makes sense, right?
But as you are already signed up for faction warfare, but not taking part in pvp yourself, how will you know a potential opponent is not in the same position?
They may be plexing with no intention of fighting, so attacking them will be reprehensible right?
After all, that's the way many people in FW play as FW is not only about pvp, but about system control through plexing, which can be a very peaceful activity.
Did you ask the guy your fleet ganked in highsec whether it was ok for you to attack him? eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Ai Shun
1119
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:26:00 -
[278] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Gotta stop you there. Firstly, never heard of it, and you haven't named it, so I'm calling bullshit straight up.
Probably Darkfall.
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4849
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:27:00 -
[279] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Just because other people do things I consider disrespectful, does not mean I'm going to use their actions as justification to do those things myself.. How do you think you are ever going to get into pvp? Are you going to just offer people a duel and see if they accept? Or convo them in local or privately? It seems that if you are never going to shoot someone unless you know that they want to be involved in a fight, you are really going to struggle even once you do start because waiting for someone to attack you first before you take any action is a way to a very fast loss. Also, with the 1 kill you have, did you ask him if it was ok first. You clearly fired missiles at him, so I hope he agreed that you could? Well being in faction warfare with other people who've signed up for it, I'm going to search for war targets. Every person in FW has chosen to involve themselves in a war. It's agreed upon. That makes sense, right?
Sure, in the same way that everyone signed up for EVE (a game centered on non-consensual pvp).
Just like the guy who signs up for FW in EVE with th intention of running missions and plexes and not pvping is still subject to pvp, the person who signs up for EVE itself is agreeing to all of it, not just the parts they like. Your perspective seems much to narrow to understand this. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2135
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:29:00 -
[280] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Why are you lying?
Star Citizen has only been in production since 2011 and up to now it's not a game, it's a virtual spaceship gallery. In other words, it's essentially spinning your ship in EVE.
At the moment there is no combat, no loot, no multiplayer, nothing. So I ask you again, why are you lying? Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2713
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:30:00 -
[281] - Quote
Remiel, before he does any of that, he'd have to reroll a new character. I don't think even E-Uni would let him in with the kind of shitposting he has. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2565
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:31:00 -
[282] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Remiel, before he does any of that, he'd have to reroll a new character. I don't think even E-Uni would let him in with the kind of shitposting he has.
I suppose Brave are outta the question for him too then.... You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:33:00 -
[283] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Why are you lying? Star Citizen has only been in production since 2011 and up to now it's not a game, it's a virtual spaceship gallery. In other words, it's essentially spinning your ship in EVE. At the moment there is no combat, no loot, no multiplayer, nothing. So I ask you again, why are you lying?
I didn't say star citizen, remedial did. I'll pm you the game name too. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:34:00 -
[284] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Just because other people do things I consider disrespectful, does not mean I'm going to use their actions as justification to do those things myself.. How do you think you are ever going to get into pvp? Are you going to just offer people a duel and see if they accept? Or convo them in local or privately? It seems that if you are never going to shoot someone unless you know that they want to be involved in a fight, you are really going to struggle even once you do start because waiting for someone to attack you first before you take any action is a way to a very fast loss. Also, with the 1 kill you have, did you ask him if it was ok first. You clearly fired missiles at him, so I hope he agreed that you could? Well being in faction warfare with other people who've signed up for it, I'm going to search for war targets. Every person in FW has chosen to involve themselves in a war. It's agreed upon. That makes sense, right? Sure, in the same way that everyone signed up for EVE (a game centered on non-consensual pvp). Just like the guy who signs up for FW in EVE with th intention of running missions and plexes and not pvping is still subject to pvp, the person who signs up for EVE itself is agreeing to all of it, not just the parts they like. Your perspective seems much to narrow to understand this.
Yea, but because you can play eve with no intention to voluntarily participate in PvP, you can also think poorly of those who impose it on you. |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
2135
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:35:00 -
[285] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Why are you lying? Star Citizen has only been in production since 2011 and up to now it's not a game, it's a virtual spaceship gallery. In other words, it's essentially spinning your ship in EVE. At the moment there is no combat, no loot, no multiplayer, nothing. So I ask you again, why are you lying? I didn't say star citizen, remedial did. I'll pm you the game name too.
I'm sorry, my sincere apologies good sir.
Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2565
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:36:00 -
[286] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Fredfredbug4 wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Since 2009 I've been playing an MMOFPSRPG with full loot. Not this partial loot nonsense you guys trumpet as being rewarding. You kill a guy, you take absolutely everything that guy had on him at the time.
Why are you lying? Star Citizen has only been in production since 2011 and up to now it's not a game, it's a virtual spaceship gallery. In other words, it's essentially spinning your ship in EVE. At the moment there is no combat, no loot, no multiplayer, nothing. So I ask you again, why are you lying? I didn't say star citizen, remedial did. I'll pm you the game name too.
You know, a sure sign of someone's intellect and/or butthurt is their inability to spell names correctly when they are right in from of them, and/or their persistence in using an alternative of that name that they think will cause insult. I'll consider this attempt at insult a measure of prescritptive retaliation as a result of butthurt, but you're definitely a bit stupid as well. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4850
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:36:00 -
[287] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right.
In a videogame, it literally does. I disagree Much like with your "they want to be safe", it doesn't matter whether you do or not. That's how the game works.
And this is the truth.
This is why the makers of CCP did not create a game mechanic that automatically turns of weapons in high sec. if CCP wanted high sec to be 100% safe, there would be 100% no way to kill anyone. The only difference between high sec and the rest of EVE eve space is that CONCORD punishes (but does not prevent) non-consensual/non-wardec ship to ship pvp.
The fact that you can still do it within the rules of the game makes it legitimate. It doesn't matter if he can't accept this truth.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:39:00 -
[288] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Just because it's permitted doesn't mean it's right.
In a videogame, it literally does. I disagree Much like with your "they want to be safe", it doesn't matter whether you do or not. That's how the game works. And this is the truth. This is why the makers of CCP did not create a game mechanic that automatically turns of weapons in high sec. if CCP wanted high sec to be 100% safe, there would be 100% no way to kill anyone. The only difference between high sec and the rest of EVE eve space is that CONCORD punishes (but does not prevent) non-consensual/non-wardec ship to ship pvp. The fact that you can still do it within the rules of the game makes it legitimate. It doesn't matter if he can't accept this truth.
Just as someone is allowed to think "wow that guy is awesome! he just tricked a guy into giving him 1 billion isk!"
I'm allowed to think, "wow that guy just stole 1 billion isk from that guy? what an *******"
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2713
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:41:00 -
[289] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Just as someone is allowed to think "wow that guy is awesome! he just tricked a guy into giving him 1 billion isk!"
I'm allowed to think, "wow that guy just stole 1 billion isk from that guy? what an *******"
Sure you are.
What we're all wondering is why you seem to have made it your sole purpose to trumpet this across the forums. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4850
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:41:00 -
[290] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Yea, but because you can play eve with no intention to voluntarily participate in PvP, you can also think poorly of those who impose it on you.
Again, I'm not saying it should be removed. But you cannot become upset that I choose to think people who steal from others are not lesser people unworthy of respect.
No one is upset about it, simply telling you that your way of thinking is wholly incorrect and irresponsible. So much so that it makes you the exactly the kind of person you are talking about: one unworthy of the respect of other adult game players.
Who is more wrong here, the person who plays a game (any game) within the rules of the game, or another person who disrespects people who are playing a game within the rules? Rhetorical question, the answer is obvious (ie, you).
|
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
399
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:46:00 -
[291] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Just as someone is allowed to think "wow that guy is awesome! he just tricked a guy into giving him 1 billion isk!"
I'm allowed to think, "wow that guy just stole 1 billion isk from that guy? what an *******"
So coming back to the gank your fleet completed in highsec. Did you think to yourself that it might be unfair to the guy and did you ask him if it was ok for you to fire missiles at him?
And after he died, did your fleet loot the wreck and take what was available?
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:46:00 -
[292] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Yea, but because you can play eve with no intention to voluntarily participate in PvP, you can also think poorly of those who impose it on you.
Again, I'm not saying it should be removed. But you cannot become upset that I choose to think people who steal from others are not lesser people unworthy of respect.
No one is upset about it, simply telling you that your way of thinking is wholly incorrect and irresponsible. So much so that it makes you the exactly the kind of person you are talking about: one unworthy of the respect of other adult game players. Who is more wrong here, the person who plays a game (any game) within the rules of the game, or another person who disrespects people who are playing a game within the rules? Rhetorical question, the answer is obvious (ie, you).
The great thing about my posistion is it's backed up by solid reasoning. People who steal are thiefs. You're entire premise is based on some imaginary disconnect between you and your actions.
You feel that for some strange reason, when you choose to ruin someone's day, that it's OK. That being an ******* is fine. yea, whatever, you think it. You feel I'm wrong, you're right all day every day.
But it doesn't matter what you think, because according to me, you're a lesser person. You can create reasons why what you do is fine all you want. But to those of us who have a firm understanding of human decency, everything you're saying is just you justifying to yourself your actions to avoid having to feel bad about your desire to spread negativity.
Who is more wrong? You, because you're having a direct, negative impact on people stifling their growth and limiting their enjoyment.
Me? Well I'm just saying a bunch of words on an internet forum that isn't even in game, it's out of game. You don't even have to read it. You can click on my name and select "hide all posts". You're choosing to interact with me.
You? Well if you come gank me in my asteroid belt for your "lolz", well I can't right click your name and select "ignore" and prevent you from doing any further harm to my potential game enjoyment. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2714
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:47:00 -
[293] - Quote
Quote:People who steal are thiefs.
Thieves, you Philistine. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4852
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:48:00 -
[294] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Just as someone is allowed to think "wow that guy is awesome! he just tricked a guy into giving him 1 billion isk!"
I'm allowed to think, "wow that guy just stole 1 billion isk from that guy? what an *******"
Right.
And one of those responses is more legitimate than the other, because the game EVE Online allows (and encourages) things like the theft of 1 billion isk.
If you don't like core aspects of a game yet continue to choose to play that game (while choosing to look down your nose at others who are merely playing the game within it's rules), it points to a very serious personality flaw. You demonstrate that flaw with every post.
I imagine that you would find the pimp slapping of Hoes to be morally wrong even if you were playing Grand Theft Auto.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:50:00 -
[295] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Just as someone is allowed to think "wow that guy is awesome! he just tricked a guy into giving him 1 billion isk!"
I'm allowed to think, "wow that guy just stole 1 billion isk from that guy? what an *******"
So coming back to the gank your fleet completed in highsec. Did you think to yourself that it might be unfair to the guy and did you ask him if it was ok for you to fire missiles at him? After he died, did your fleet loot the wreck and take his possessions?
I've never killed and looted a guy in high sec. Where are you even getting that from? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:54:00 -
[296] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Just as someone is allowed to think "wow that guy is awesome! he just tricked a guy into giving him 1 billion isk!"
I'm allowed to think, "wow that guy just stole 1 billion isk from that guy? what an *******"
Right. And one of those responses is more legitimate than the other, because the game EVE Online allows (and encourages) things like the theft of 1 billion isk. If you don't like core aspects of a game yet continue to choose to play that game (while choosing to look down your nose at others who are merely playing the game within it's rules), it points to a very serious personality flaw. You demonstrate that flaw with every post. I imagine that you would find the pimp slapping of Hoes to be morally wrong even if you were playing Grand Theft Auto.
Just because it's an option doesn't mean it needs to be exercised whenever possible.
You are the reflection of your actions. To us, you are no different than the things you do. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
399
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:55:00 -
[297] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I've never killed and looted a guy in high sec. Where are you even getting that from?
So you never fired Mjolnir Missiles from a Griffin as part of an 8 person fleet that attacked a character names Festus on 16 February in Uuhalanen, a highsec system?
Because the evidence would suggest otherwise and you did, as part of a fleet of your Corp, gank a Prophecy which dropped a bit over 9 million ISK worth of loot.
So you're saying that didn't happen?
Was his wreck looted and his possessions taken? eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2715
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:56:00 -
[298] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because it's an option doesn't mean it needs to be exercised whenever possible.
You are the reflection of your actions. To us, you are no different than the things you do.
"us".
Notice how he assumes a posture of being part of a group, or herd, to bolster his opinion.
Prey animal. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4852
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 05:58:00 -
[299] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
The great thing about my posistion is it's backed up by solid reasoning. People who steal are thiefs. You're entire premise is based on some imaginary disconnect between you and your actions.
Yes, that imaginary disconnect is called EVE ONLINE lol. Real world morality has no place here. I choose to not partake in "tear collecting", not because it's "wrong", but because I don't generally find it fun (i prefer combat PVE activities, missions, incursions, exploration). But it's allowed by the rules of the game so it's legitimate.
Quote: You feel that for some strange reason, when you choose to ruin someone's day, that it's OK. That being an ******* is fine. yea, whatever, you think it. You feel I'm wrong, you're right all day every day.
Not all day every day, just today. And I'm right on the issue because this is a video game created by Icelandic PVPrs with some very specific core features, the most imortant of which is universal non-consensual pvp.
Quote: But it doesn't matter what you think, because according to me, you're a lesser person. You can create reasons why what you do is fine all you want. But to those of us who have a firm understanding of human decency, everything you're saying is just you justifying to yourself your actions to avoid having to feel bad about your desire to spread negativity.
Who is more wrong? You, because you're having a direct, negative impact on people stifling their growth and limiting their enjoyment.
Of course you are wrong again. Unless that person is Serpentis, Sansha or the like, i do nothing to them in this game as I rarely pvp anymore. I simply support those who do without arrogant prejudgement because what they do is allowed in the game.
IRL I risk my life to protect people like you, when most of the time people like you could not be bothered to lift a single finger in your own defense let alone others. If my stance on the legitimacy of people playing a game within it's rules makes me lesser than you, your unwillingness to risk your real skin for others makes you (be your own defninition) a lesser human being than me.
Congrats, you just devalued yourself.
Quote: Me? Well I'm just saying a bunch of words on an internet forum that isn't even in game, it's out of game. You don't even have to read it. You can click on my name and select "hide all posts". You're choosing to interact with me.
You? Well if you come gank me in my asteroid belt for your "lolz", well I can't right click your name and select "ignore" and prevent you from doing any further harm to my potential game enjoyment.
Were I an internet coward, i'd do as you suggest. But I won't, because people need to know the truth about you and your type. you are free to feel how you liek about others, as I am free to join the the chorus of actual adults pointing at you and laughing and your ignorance. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4852
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:00:00 -
[300] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because it's an option doesn't mean it needs to be exercised whenever possible.
You are the reflection of your actions. To us, you are no different than the things you do.
"us". Notice how he assumes a posture of being part of a group, or herd, to bolster his opinion. Prey animal.
Smacks of false consensus effect. People like that always seem to need to think others support them rather than being able to stand up (alone if needed) for what they think. |
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4852
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:05:00 -
[301] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because it's an option doesn't mean it needs to be exercised whenever possible.
The last person who said that to me was someone I was discussing a freedom of speech issue with lol. How someone else excercses a freedom (such as the freedom to play a game as you want so long as you stay within it's rules set) is no concern of yours, yet you are concerned. Seems like you have too much time on your hands
Quote: You are the reflection of your actions. To us, you are no different than the things you do.
Exactly, such as posting disrespectfully (against people playing a video game within it's rules) on an internet forum which (according to you) indicates a person who is disrespectful and immature in real life. Right? |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2715
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:05:00 -
[302] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because it's an option doesn't mean it needs to be exercised whenever possible.
You are the reflection of your actions. To us, you are no different than the things you do.
"us". Notice how he assumes a posture of being part of a group, or herd, to bolster his opinion. Prey animal. Smacks of false consensus effect. People like that always seem to need to think others support them rather than being able to stand up (alone if needed) for what they think.
They can't. They're literally unable.
The fact that others can is something that the prey animals consider to be threatening, as it's the trait of a "not rabbit". Which makes them a predator.
Thing is, to a prey animal, being cast out of the herd is basically death. Being by yourself, standing alone, is comparable to being executed for them. Which is why their only tactic is to try and apply social pressure to shame or shun someone. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:06:00 -
[303] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:I've never killed and looted a guy in high sec. Where are you even getting that from? So you never fired Mjolnir Missiles from a Griffin as part of an 8 person fleet that attacked a character names Festus on 16 February in Uuhalanen, a highsec system? Because the evidence would suggest otherwise and you did, as part of a fleet of your Corp, gank a Prophecy which dropped a bit over 9 million ISK worth of loot and a total loss to that player of more than 67 million ISK. So you're saying that didn't happen? Was his wreck looted and his possessions taken? Where did I get it from - killmails generated automatically by the game are easy to look up and the relevant killmail is api verified, not manually entered.
That was a war target. His corporation declared war on us. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
400
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:09:00 -
[304] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:That was a war target. His corporation declared war on us.
Sorry since you are holding people up to such high standards, was it him personally that declared war against your Corp?
If you don't know that, did you ask him and did you seek his permission to gank him, a fellow Caldari faction warfare pilot, flying about his business in highsec?
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:10:00 -
[305] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Just because it's an option doesn't mean it needs to be exercised whenever possible.
The last person who said that to me was someone I was discussing a freedom of speech issue with lol. How someone else excercses a freedom (such as the freedom to play a game as you want so long as you stay within it's rules set) is no concern of yours, yet you are concerned. Seems like you have too much time on your hands Quote: You are the reflection of your actions. To us, you are no different than the things you do.
Exactly, such as posting disrespectfully (against people playing a video game within it's rules) on an internet forum which (according to you) indicates a person who is disrespectful and immature in real life. Right?
Whatever makes you feel better. Why you're so caught up in my definition of right and wrong is beyond me, but apparently you have a need to control other's opinions.
Sorry, but I'll not let you control mine.
Everyone I've spoken to has directly addressed me first, including you. I said nothing negative to you.
I stated my belief that someone who does bad things online is also a bad person offline. For some reason, I dont know maybe you felt guilty because you do bad things, or you felt angry someone had the audacity to judge you in a fashion other than how you see yourself, you felt it necessary to engage in a conversation with me about my beliefs on right and wrong.
Disrespect? Maybe. Was i disrespected first? Most definitely.
You reap what you sow. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2715
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:13:00 -
[306] - Quote
Quote:You reap what you sow.
And what you've sown is a 500 mil bounty for your corpse, redeemable from the esteemed Remiel Pollard.
Just wanted to remind everyone. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:13:00 -
[307] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:That was a war target. His corporation declared war on us. Sorry since you are holding people up to such high standards, was it him personally that declared war against your Corp? If you don't know that, did you ask him and did you seek his permission to gank him, a fellow Caldari faction warfare pilot, flying about his business in highsec?
I don't know if he was directly responsible for the declaration against our corporation. But I do remember that he was involved in the destruction of one of pilot's ships very shortly before we found and destroyed his ship in response.
Also, please hurry up between making your connection how a corporation choosing to declare war on another is the same as a miner in an NPC corp innocently mining veldspar in high security.
Or how a corporation declaring war on another is the same as one player scamming another out of 1 billion isk.
I'm interested to see what outlandish explanation you come up with to tie them together. |
Saint Dongsmith
Dongsmith Investments and Acquisitions
2
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:17:00 -
[308] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Just because other people do things I consider disrespectful, does not mean I'm going to use their actions as justification to do those things myself.. How do you think you are ever going to get into pvp? Are you going to just offer people a duel and see if they accept? Or convo them in local or privately? It seems that if you are never going to shoot someone unless you know that they want to be involved in a fight, you are really going to struggle even once you do start because waiting for someone to attack you first before you take any action is a way to a very fast loss. Also, with the 1 kill you have, did you ask him if it was ok first. You clearly fired missiles at him, so I hope he agreed that you could? Well being in faction warfare with other people who've signed up for it, I'm going to search for war targets. Every person in FW has chosen to involve themselves in a war. It's agreed upon. That makes sense, right? Sure, in the same way that everyone signed up for EVE (a game centered on non-consensual pvp). Just like the guy who signs up for FW in EVE with th intention of running missions and plexes and not pvping is still subject to pvp, the person who signs up for EVE itself is agreeing to all of it, not just the parts they like. Your perspective seems much to narrow to understand this. Yea, but because you can play eve with no intention to voluntarily participate in PvP, you can also think poorly of those who impose it on you. Again, I'm not saying it should be removed. But you cannot become upset that I choose to think people who steal from others are not lesser people unworthy of respect. what
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
400
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:22:00 -
[309] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Also, please hurry up between making your connection how a corporation choosing to declare war on another is the same as a miner in an NPC corp innocently mining veldspar in high security.
Or how a corporation declaring war on another is the same as one player scamming another out of 1 billion isk.
Firstly, it was a mututal war, so your Corp declared war on them too.
Secondly however, no connection to 1 billion ISK scam is necessary.
You've claimed many times that killing someone in non-consensual pvp makes that person a lesser individuals, unworthy of respect (and a host of other terms) and that our actions in game are tied to who we are out of game.
Your gank is exactly the same thing.
Did your fleet loot his wreck and 'steal' his possessions (to use your standards on this)? eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:25:00 -
[310] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Also, please hurry up between making your connection how a corporation choosing to declare war on another is the same as a miner in an NPC corp innocently mining veldspar in high security.
Or how a corporation declaring war on another is the same as one player scamming another out of 1 billion isk. Firstly, it was a mututal war, so you declared war on them too. Secondly however, no connection to 1 billion ISK scam is necessary. You've claimed many times that some killing someone in non-consensual pvp makes that person a lesser individual (and a host of other tersms) and that our actions in game are tied to who we are out of game. Your gank is exactly the same thing. Did your fleet loot his wreck and 'steal' his possessions (to use your standards on this)?
No, there's no connection between two corporations agreeing to go to war with each other, and a guy solo mining veldspar in an ncp corporation.
Your reaching too much. Your comparison is too thin and cannot support your argument.
Two corporations mutally declaring war is the equivalent of 2 school kids agreeing to meet at the park to fight after school.
A guy mining veldspar and getting ganked is the equivalent of a senior citizen having her purse stolen along with her groceries on her way home from the store. |
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
401
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:27:00 -
[311] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:No, there's no connection between two corporations agreeing to go to war with each other, and a guy solo mining veldspar in an ncp corporation.
Your reaching too much. Your comparison is too thin and cannot support your argument.
Sorry, but you've claimed that people killing you in FW plexes qualifies for the same treatment, that the only qualifying factor is non-consensual pvp. That is exactly comparable.
Did your fleet steal his possessions after ganking him? eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:31:00 -
[312] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:No, there's no connection between two corporations agreeing to go to war with each other, and a guy solo mining veldspar in an ncp corporation.
Your reaching too much. Your comparison is too thin and cannot support your argument. Sorry, but you've claimed that people killing you in FW plexes qualifies for the same treatment, that the only qualifying factor is non-consensual pvp. That is exactly comparable. Did your fleet steal his possessions after ganking him?
I don't remember complaining about being killed in FW.
Can you link me the post?
I don't see why I would complain about dying in FW. I might've mentioned it's happened, but not as an excuse to condemn for their actions. Probably to show that I have put myself in situations to experience different aspects of the game.
I wouldn't compare killing FW targets to killing an innocent. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2525
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:32:00 -
[313] - Quote
a lot of people in fw don't want pvp |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2525
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:33:00 -
[314] - Quote
if you ask 'why did they join fw if they don't want pvp'
i say 'why did they undock if they didn't want to be ganked' |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2718
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:35:00 -
[315] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:if you ask 'why did they join fw if they don't want pvp'
i say 'why did they undock if they didn't want to be ganked'
More like "why are they afk in space with no tank mods on if they don't want to be ganked". Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
401
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:37:00 -
[316] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Can you link me the post?
This will take a while to find the best 5 quotes, so I'll keep updating as the quotes build and improve (and only 5 can be included).
No 1:
Divine Entervention wrote: If you would like, you can find me and blow me up at any time to see if I become upset, personally.
Though I may judge you as pathetically broken to wish to attempt to upset me, because I've definitely rattled your sense of self into motivating you to take action.
No 2:
Divine Entervention wrote:It comes down to the choices you make, and if you're willing to attempt to try and inflict losses on other people who are not looking to competitively wager their resources against yours, then you are also capable of trying to inflict losses on people offline as well.
You're imposing your choices on people who have different goals/objectives and ultimately different choices than your own. This guy was flying around in highsec in a bling ship, which is a good sign he wasn't looking to lose it, but you inflicted loss on him anyway.
No 3: [quote=Divine Entervention}You're not engaging in combat with equally skilled competitors who are also seeking a challenge. When you engage someone who chooses not to live the same life you do, when you enforce your needs and wants on others at the expense of their selves, is when you define yourself as a person who isn't worthy of respect.
Your choices aren't mine. Mine hurt no one, yours hurt others.[/quote] How is a solo pilot in highsec possibly supposed to engage in combat with equally skilled competitors when they are in a fleet of 8 pilots v 1 lone pilot?
More to come. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2525
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:38:00 -
[317] - Quote
all miners in high-security space, of course, have already agreed to follow a certain set of rules
these rules, or Code, stipulate that miners have agreed that they might be pvped at any time and that they have given permission for their ship to be destroyed without warning
if they didn't want to be ganked, they'd leave highsec |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:38:00 -
[318] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:if you ask 'why did they join fw if they don't want pvp'
i say 'why did they undock if they didn't want to be ganked'
There's a difference between signing up to play EVE and signing up for faction warfare.
You know this. If there were no difference, FW wouldn't exist. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:39:00 -
[319] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:all miners in high-security space, of course, have already agreed to follow a certain set of rules
these rules, or Code, stipulate that miners have agreed that they might be pvped at any time and that they have given permission for their ship to be destroyed without warning
if they didn't want to be ganked, they'd leave highsec
Yet just because they understand it could happen, doesn't mean they have to be happy when it does.
You can't control how others feel. Thinking you can throw a few sentences around and have it ease the pain of loss is naive.
I have the right to believe people who choose to PvP miners in high sec are despicable people. Due to this right, I'll judge people who do as inferior and treat them as such. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:42:00 -
[320] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Can you link me the post? This will take a while to find the best 5 quotes, so I'll keep updating as the quotes build and improve (and only 5 can be included). No 1: Divine Entervention wrote: If you would like, you can find me and blow me up at any time to see if I become upset, personally.
Though I may judge you as pathetically broken to wish to attempt to upset me, because I've definitely rattled your sense of self into motivating you to take action. More to come.
This one was in direct response to that person in particular. Not by being blown up by any FW target. I've been blown up by alot of FW targets the past few days and I bare them no ill will. But if that person chose to spend 45 minutes flying to the other part of the galaxy to find me and blow up my unfitted merlin, i would question why he's so upset that he feels it necessary to spend to much time in an attempt to upset me.
|
|
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2526
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:43:00 -
[321] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:if you ask 'why did they join fw if they don't want pvp'
i say 'why did they undock if they didn't want to be ganked' There's a difference between signing up to play EVE and signing up for faction warfare. You know this. If there were no difference, FW wouldn't exist. of course there's a difference. by joining fw you change the conditions of most pvp situations
you've still intentionally put yourself in a pvp zone in both cases |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2526
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:45:00 -
[322] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:all miners in high-security space, of course, have already agreed to follow a certain set of rules
these rules, or Code, stipulate that miners have agreed that they might be pvped at any time and that they have given permission for their ship to be destroyed without warning
if they didn't want to be ganked, they'd leave highsec Yet just because they understand it could happen, doesn't mean they have to be happy when it does. incorrect. all miners are contractually bound to enjoy pvp encounters with gankers and to offer a GF in local chat |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:45:00 -
[323] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:if you ask 'why did they join fw if they don't want pvp'
i say 'why did they undock if they didn't want to be ganked' There's a difference between signing up to play EVE and signing up for faction warfare. You know this. If there were no difference, FW wouldn't exist. of course there's a difference. by joining fw you change the conditions of most pvp situations you've still intentionally put yourself in a pvp zone in both cases
High sec mining isn't as gauranteed/predictable as FW low sec plexing. You can encounter 2000 people in high sec before you encounter 1 ganker.
Due to this fact, it's justifiable to conclude that the one person who chose to gank you is of lesser moral character than the other 1999 you came across. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2526
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:47:00 -
[324] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:High sec mining isn't gauranteed. You can encounter 2000 people in high sec before you encounter 1 ganker.
Due to this fact, it's justifiable to conclude that the one person who chose to gank you is of lesser moral character than the other 1999 you came across. no. we can, however, conclude that out of two thousand people encountered, at least one was a ganker. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:48:00 -
[325] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:all miners in high-security space, of course, have already agreed to follow a certain set of rules
these rules, or Code, stipulate that miners have agreed that they might be pvped at any time and that they have given permission for their ship to be destroyed without warning
if they didn't want to be ganked, they'd leave highsec Yet just because they understand it could happen, doesn't mean they have to be happy when it does. incorrect. all miners are contractually bound to enjoy pvp encounters with gankers and to offer a GF in local chat
I signed no contract stating that. Show me where it says that, verbatim, in the EULA. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:48:00 -
[326] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:High sec mining isn't gauranteed. You can encounter 2000 people in high sec before you encounter 1 ganker.
Due to this fact, it's justifiable to conclude that the one person who chose to gank you is of lesser moral character than the other 1999 you came across. no. we can, however, conclude that out of two thousand people encountered, at least one was a ganker.
And you are allowed to believe that the person is more inferior than the other 1999.
1999 people know how to treat others with respect. That one? Well he's got problems. . . . . |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2526
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:49:00 -
[327] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: incorrect. all miners are contractually bound to enjoy pvp encounters with gankers and to offer a GF in local chat
I signed no contract stating that. Show me where it says that, verbatim, in the EULA. by entering high security space, a pilot is deemed to have accepted the conditions of the Code |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2526
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:50:00 -
[328] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:High sec mining isn't gauranteed. You can encounter 2000 people in high sec before you encounter 1 ganker.
Due to this fact, it's justifiable to conclude that the one person who chose to gank you is of lesser moral character than the other 1999 you came across. no. we can, however, conclude that out of two thousand people encountered, at least one was a ganker. And you are allowed to believe that the person is more inferior than the other 1999. 1999 people know how to treat others with respect. That one? Well he's got problems. . . . . the only reasonable conclusion is that one person out of two thousand, for some reason, interacted with you differently than the others |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:52:00 -
[329] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:High sec mining isn't gauranteed. You can encounter 2000 people in high sec before you encounter 1 ganker.
Due to this fact, it's justifiable to conclude that the one person who chose to gank you is of lesser moral character than the other 1999 you came across. no. we can, however, conclude that out of two thousand people encountered, at least one was a ganker. And you are allowed to believe that the person is more inferior than the other 1999. 1999 people know how to treat others with respect. That one? Well he's got problems. . . . . the only reasonable conclusion is that one person out of two thousand, for some reason, interacted with you differently than the others
They chose to set aside my personal feelings to accomplish their own personal goals. They view other people as objects of their enjoyment, and not as people who should be treated with respect.
I'll label them as such. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2526
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:55:00 -
[330] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:They chose to set aside one's personal feelings to accomplish their own personal goals. They view other people as objects of their enjoyment, and not as people who should be treated with respect.
I'll label them as such. incorrect. the game is to be enjoyed, and the game, like any other, plays by a set of rules. the rules in this game include being able to affect another person's spaceship. there is nothing immoral about playing a game by the rules |
|
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2527
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:57:00 -
[331] - Quote
if you want to know more about the Code, please contact your local Agent for an information package |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:59:00 -
[332] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:if you want to know more about the Code, please contact your local Agent for an information package
Yea, I don't really care about whatever code you speak.
I'll stick to the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
You do you, I'll do me.
In the mean time,
People who go out of their way to inflict suffering upon people looking to experience non-pvp related aspects of EVE for their own personal enjoyment are despicable people and should never be treated with respect. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
403
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:01:00 -
[333] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I'll stick to the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
You do you, I'll do me.
In the mean time,
People who go out of their way to inflict suffering upon people looking to experience non-pvp related aspects of EVE for their own personal enjoyment are despicable people and should never be treated with respect.
An 8 v 1 gank and theft of possessions in high sec is as good a qualifying action as any in this. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2527
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:02:00 -
[334] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I'll stick to the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" i play the game by the rules and expect others to do the same
Quote:People who go out of their way to inflict suffering upon people looking to experience non-pvp related aspects of EVE for their own personal enjoyment are despicable people and should never be treated with respect. or is the person who demands - contrary to the rules - that other players do not interact with them the immoral player? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:02:00 -
[335] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:I'll stick to the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
You do you, I'll do me.
In the mean time,
People who go out of their way to inflict suffering upon people looking to experience non-pvp related aspects of EVE for their own personal enjoyment are despicable people and should never be treated with respect. An 8 v 1 gank and theft of possessions in high sec is as good a qualifying action as any in this.
War |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2527
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:03:00 -
[336] - Quote
i'll bet you throw a tantrum when you land on someone's hotel in monopoly, too |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:04:00 -
[337] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:I'll stick to the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" i play the game by the rules and expect others to do the same Quote:People who go out of their way to inflict suffering upon people looking to experience non-pvp related aspects of EVE for their own personal enjoyment are despicable people and should never be treated with respect. or is the person who demands - contrary to the rules - that other players do not interact with them the immoral player?
No, the one looking to be left alone has no direct negative impact on others.
The person looking to take an innocent miner's belongings to pad his isk at the expense of an innocent is the immoral player. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2527
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:04:00 -
[338] - Quote
"i'm just trying to enjoy non-financial aspects of this game, such as touring the boardwalk, but this immoral player demands i hand over monopoly money whenever i try to do so" |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:06:00 -
[339] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:"i'm just trying to enjoy non-financial aspects of this game, such as touring the boardwalk, but this immoral player demands i hand over monopoly money whenever i try to do so"
You can do what you want.
Just try not to become too bothered when I decide to label and treat you as a person unworthy of respect due to the actions you chose to make.
I'll also not become upset when you choose to do the same to me.
To each their own.
I think you're pathetic,
and in return
you're jealous I'm a better person than you so you try to bring me down to your level to feel better about yourself.
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
405
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:07:00 -
[340] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:War That's just shifting the goalposts.
That wasn't part of your criteria earlier and you already admitted to not knowing whether Festus was himself involved in declaring the war or was doing anything other than flying around highsec.
It's an almost certain bet though that he wasn't looking to be ganked by an 8 person fleet in a highsec system. Your actions just show that you are exactly the same type of person you have been complaining about. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
|
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2528
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:11:00 -
[341] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:"i'm just trying to enjoy non-financial aspects of this game, such as touring the boardwalk, but this immoral player demands i hand over monopoly money whenever i try to do so" You can do what you want. Just try not to become too bothered when I decide to label and treat you as a person unworthy of respect due to the actions you chose to make. I'll also not become upset when you choose to do the same to me. To each their own. I think you're pathetic, and in return you're jealous I'm a better person than you so you try to bring me down to your level to feel better about yourself. you admit your prejudice, then
- preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
- dislike, hostility, or unjust behaviour deriving from preconceived and unfounded opinions. "accusations of racial prejudice" synonyms:bigotry, bias, partisanship, partiality, intolerance, discrimination, a jaundiced eye, preference, one-sidedness, unfairness, inequality, inequity
sounds like immorality to me |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:17:00 -
[342] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:"i'm just trying to enjoy non-financial aspects of this game, such as touring the boardwalk, but this immoral player demands i hand over monopoly money whenever i try to do so" You can do what you want. Just try not to become too bothered when I decide to label and treat you as a person unworthy of respect due to the actions you chose to make. I'll also not become upset when you choose to do the same to me. To each their own. I think you're pathetic, and in return you're jealous I'm a better person than you so you try to bring me down to your level to feel better about yourself. you admit your prejudice, then - preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
- dislike, hostility, or unjust behaviour deriving from preconceived and unfounded opinions. "accusations of racial prejudice" synonyms:bigotry, bias, partisanship, partiality, intolerance, discrimination, a jaundiced eye, preference, one-sidedness, unfairness, inequality, inequitysounds like immorality to me
Did I ever say I was perfect?
Do my imperfections directly influence your attempts at having fun or enjoying yourself?
My vices cause no conflict with you that you do not wish to experience.
I never said I was perfect. No one is.
I've simply stated that I'm better than people who's goal it is to cause misery in others for their own enjoyment. If that statement includes you, well I'm sorry you're that kind of person.
I hope you get better. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2528
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:21:00 -
[343] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I've simply stated that I'm better than people who's goal it is to cause misery in others for their own enjoyment. except, of course, that it is entirely impossible to 'cause misery in others' in this computer game, as players know the rules of the computer game when they choose whether or not to play, and playing is entirely optional. if players, due to the allowances of the rules, did not enjoy the game, they would not be playing |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2528
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:23:00 -
[344] - Quote
us unprejudiced, moral people are capable of tolerating legitimate playstyles such as ganking, you see |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2755
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:29:00 -
[345] - Quote
Quote:Did I ever say I was perfect?
You've trumpeted what a superior being you think you are since you first started posting. You might as well be using the word Ubermensch by now. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:29:00 -
[346] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:I've simply stated that I'm better than people who's goal it is to cause misery in others for their own enjoyment. except, of course, that it is entirely impossible to 'cause misery in others' in this computer game, as players know the rules of the computer game when they choose whether or not to play, and playing is entirely optional. if players, due to the allowances of the rules, did not enjoy the game, they would not be playing
I disagree.
Though you and I may not be inclined to become emotionally agitated at the prospect loss, some may.
You may feel that thought is wrong. Me? Well it's not my place to tell someone how they can and cannot think.
Who are we to judge what someone places their values on?
If you want to place your values on someone's ability to steal from others, well that's your deal.
If I want to place my value's on someone's ability to be honest and trust worthy, that's mine. In this sandbox, game of choices, both are possibilities.
Just as you'll judge me as whatever you see fit, it would be hypocritical of you to become agitated at my making judgments of you. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:30:00 -
[347] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:us unprejudiced, moral people are capable of tolerating legitimate playstyles such as ganking, you see
I'll tolerate it. I'm not asking for it to be removed.
gank all you want.
Just don't be surprised when I tell you you're an ******* for doing so. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
409
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:34:00 -
[348] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:gank all you want.
Just don't be surprised when I tell you you're an ******* for doing so.
Sure, as long as you apply the same standard and therefore the same judgement to yourself.
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3102
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:38:00 -
[349] - Quote
Still at it? Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:45:00 -
[350] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:gank all you want.
Just don't be surprised when I tell you you're an ******* for doing so. Sure, as long as you apply the same standard and therefore the same judgement to yourself.
Yes, if I ever attempt to swindle a new player out of everything he owns, or if I attempt to scam someone for their isk, or attack an innocent miner who's not involved in a war declaration with me either faction warfare related or corp vs corp,
I'll then have become what I've continuously stated I despise.
Until then?
Well right now I'm still golden. |
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16795
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:49:00 -
[351] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: I'll tolerate it. I'm not asking for it to be removed.
gank all you want.
Just don't be surprised when I tell you you're an ******* for doing so.
As you compared a game mechanic with r*pe, we already know you are.
Reported.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
417
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:51:00 -
[352] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Yes, if I ever attempt to swindle a new player out of everything he owns, or if I attempt to scam someone for their isk, or attack an innocent miner who's not involved in a war declaration with me either faction warfare related or corp vs corp,
I'll then have become what I've continuously stated I despise.
Until then?
Well right now I'm still golden.
More goal post shifting.
A highsec gank in an unfair fight followed by the theft of possessions and inflicting loss without permission or consideration of the effect of your actions on the other party is exactly what you have complained about in the actions of others.
Golden is not what it used to be. Seems to be brown, somewhat solid, but a little liquid and sticky too. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:52:00 -
[353] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Yes, if I ever attempt to swindle a new player out of everything he owns, or if I attempt to scam someone for their isk, or attack an innocent miner who's not involved in a war declaration with me either faction warfare related or corp vs corp,
I'll then have become what I've continuously stated I despise.
Until then?
Well right now I'm still golden. More goal post shifting. A highsec gank in an unfair fight followed by the theft of possessions and inflicting loss without permission or consideration of the effect of your actions on the other party is exactly what you have complained about in the actions of others. Golden is not what it used to be. Seems to be brown, somewhat solid, but a little liquid and sticky too.
you seem really affected.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2760
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:52:00 -
[354] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Yes, if I ever attempt to swindle a new player out of everything he owns, or if I attempt to scam someone for their isk, or attack an innocent miner who's not involved in a war declaration with me either faction warfare related or corp vs corp,
I'll then have become what I've continuously stated I despise.
Until then?
Well right now I'm still golden. More goal post shifting. A highsec gank in an unfair fight followed by the theft of possessions and inflicting loss without permission or consideration of the effect of your actions on the other party is exactly what you have complained about in the actions of others. Golden is not what it used to be. Seems to be brown, somewhat solid, but a little liquid and sticky too.
The bits of corn could certainly be described as golden, though. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3103
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:53:00 -
[355] - Quote
We need to find you an ingame hobby, Mr Entervention.
Ever considered wormholes? Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
417
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:59:00 -
[356] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:you seem really affected.
Sure, why not?
I have a number of RL friends that play this game that by association with your judgments, must be arseholes, scum, lower beings deserving of no respect, etc.
I'll call that out no problem, because each of them is (as previously said in the other thread I think), well educated, adjusted and successful individual who I am more than happy to both associate with and call my friend.
None of them represent the type of person you judge them or others to be, so the broader conclusion from the evidence available to most of us is that your judgement is flawed and I would suspect that if I knew most of the EvE community, I would be more than happy to call a very large number of them friends in real life.
Your argument then being flawed, deserves to be questioned and called out for what it really is, which is anything other than fair or realistic. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:59:00 -
[357] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:We need to find you an ingame hobby, Mr Entervention.
Ever considered wormholes?
Yea I went and mined a bunch of gas in wormholes.
I then flew my merlin around checking out plexes and was instagibbed by a couple of sleepers.
That was fun.
I've learned I can't do worm holes! along with the other 99% of the game I can't do yet because I'm too new. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
417
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:01:00 -
[358] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I've learned I can't do worm holes! along with the other 99% of the game I can't do yet because I'm too new.
Nothing to do with age, only with attitude. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2584
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:01:00 -
[359] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Did I ever say I was perfect?
You did, at one stage, claim to be a better person than more than 80% of EVE's population. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:03:00 -
[360] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:you seem really affected. Sure, why not? I have a number of RL friends that play this game that by association with your judgments, must be arseholes, scum, lower beings deserving of no respect, etc. I'll call that out no problem, because each of them is (as previously said in the other thread I think), well educated, adjusted and successful individual who I am more than happy to both associate with and call my friend. None of them represent the type of person you judge them or others to be, so the broader conclusion from the evidence available to most of us is that you judgement is flawed and I would suspect that if I knew most of the EvE community, I would be more than happy to call a very large number of them friends in real life. Your argument then being flawed, deserves to be questioned and called out for what it really is, which is anything other than fair or realistic.
So you'll continuously harass me, then state you hang out with people who do things I find to be morally wrong, then you'll say you enjoy those people and think they're good people.
Yea. . . . OK. Well you enjoy your friends! You all seem like you're a great fit! Birds of the feather, 2 in the bush. You know the saying!
I'm going to choose to NOT assosciate with them. If you act like you, and they act as you describe, well . . . . .
I'm dead on. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:04:00 -
[361] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Did I ever say I was perfect?
You did, at one stage, claim to be a better person than more than 80% of EVE's population.
Yes. Because I am.
Perfect? No one is perfect. I would never claim to be so, saying it would be ignorance. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
417
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:05:00 -
[362] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:So you'll continuously harass me, then state you hang out with people who do things I find to be morally wrong, then you'll say you enjoy those people and think they're good people.
Discussion and questions regarding holes in your arguments on a forum is not harassment.
But if you feel it is, the report button is at the top of each post. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3103
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:08:00 -
[363] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:We need to find you an ingame hobby, Mr Entervention.
Ever considered wormholes? Yea I went and mined a bunch of gas in wormholes. I then flew my merlin around checking out plexes and was instagibbed by a couple of sleepers. That was fun. I've learned I can't do worm holes! along with the other 99% of the game I can't do yet because I'm too new. Teamwork, Mr Entervention, Teamwork. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:10:00 -
[364] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:So you'll continuously harass me, then state you hang out with people who do things I find to be morally wrong, then you'll say you enjoy those people and think they're good people. Discussion and questions regarding holes in your arguments on a forum is not harassment. But if you feel it is, the report button is at the top of each post.
I'm not going to report you. You're not affecting me to the point where I feel you need to be punished for your actions.
I'll just use your actions to reinforce the conclusion I've reached regarding you as a person.
Please tell me again how killing a corp. vs corp. war target is the same as 5 people attacking an NPC corporation miner in high sec.
I enjoy you're inability to formulate real arguments. It makes me laugh. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
417
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:14:00 -
[365] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I'm not going to report you.]
Ok whatever, I did anyway. Let's see if there is an official judgment that my posts in the forum amount to harassment.
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:16:00 -
[366] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:I'm not going to report you.] Ok whatever, I did anyway. Let's see if there is an official judgment that my posts in the forum amount to harassment.
I'd like to state in this thread, right here that I do not wish for Scipio to be infracted for his actions.
He's still learning, and I'd like for him to figure it out for himself.
With my help.
I'm the only intervention he needs.
Divine. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:16:00 -
[367] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
Almost 20 pages...
Confirming this game needs a new word - EVEtard
This new word need a definition and nomination for prime candidates.
But first, 20 pages MUST be reached... prove OP wrong EVEtards, you know you can!
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:22:00 -
[368] - Quote
So I asked in the Help channel and was answered by an ISD guy.
I was like, hey, is it OK to be nice to people? Or does everyone have to be always trying to steal and hurt others?
i was told that it's perfectly acceptable to choose how you wish to play the game, nice, miner, trader, industrialist.
So the choice is there.
We have the right to choose between being good and evil.
There's no contract we sign that states upon entering New Eden that you check your morality at the door.
If you feel compelled to mis treat people in game for your own amusement, well that's you making the choice.
That means you're the type of person who will choose to mis treat others for your own amusement.
That person who chooses to make that choice on the computer is the same person who gets up and walks outside the doors of his house. |
Joan Greywind
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
340
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:22:00 -
[369] - Quote
I am not a very experienced forum poster, but from my limited knowledge (yea milk that humbleness), I think that the EVE forums are generally very conductive, even with all the hating and trolling.
Yes there is a lot of **** posting, but afterall this is the internet, and where anonymity bring the worst in people, but still I believe in general the forums have improved the game and the community.
I mean just like democracy give votes to idiots, it is still the best system out there, simply because the benefits outweigh the costs. There is many discussions in these forum that directly and indirectly made the game better.
And if you still haven't conducted a decent discussions on the forums, then maybe it is your fault and not the "forum's" fault.
Just my 2 cents |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2584
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:47:00 -
[370] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: We have the right to choose between being good and evil.
Good and evil, of course, being a false dichotomy, in this game especially, since they are not the only choices available.
And for the last time, no one is mistreating anyone in this game just by playing it within the confines of the rules. It's a game. Unless you are telling people in chat to go kill themselves, or otherwise directly bullying those people, which is against the rules, you aren't mistreating anyone. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1176
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:52:00 -
[371] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:So I asked in the Help channel and was answered by an ISD guy.
I was like, hey, is it OK to be nice to people? Or does everyone have to be always trying to steal and hurt others?
i was told that it's perfectly acceptable to choose how you wish to play the game, nice, miner, trader, industrialist.
So the choice is there.
We have the right to choose between being good and evil.
There's no contract we sign that states upon entering New Eden that you check your morality at the door.
If you feel compelled to mis treat people in game for your own amusement, well that's you making the choice.
That means you're the type of person who will choose to mis treat others for your own amusement.
That person who chooses to make that choice on the computer is the same person who gets up and walks outside the doors of his house.
Declarations of morality, good, evil, and whatnot are all subjective judgements based on your own social circle and upbringing, and are utterly inapplicable to anyone aside from yourself.
Millions of people have died across the span of human history, simply due to the declaration of morality. I consider forcing your perspective of right and wrong on someone else to be the worse crime, overall.
Simple example: you come across a group of people who, during war, tortures and kills POWs. You declare these people to be utterly evil and unworthy. Turns out, in this group's culture, being caught as a POW is considered an ultimate shame, and it's considered a great honor to give said person a chance to redeem their shame, by showing how brave they are during torture. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 08:57:00 -
[372] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:So I asked in the Help channel and was answered by an ISD guy.
I was like, hey, is it OK to be nice to people? Or does everyone have to be always trying to steal and hurt others?
i was told that it's perfectly acceptable to choose how you wish to play the game, nice, miner, trader, industrialist.
So the choice is there.
We have the right to choose between being good and evil.
There's no contract we sign that states upon entering New Eden that you check your morality at the door.
If you feel compelled to mis treat people in game for your own amusement, well that's you making the choice.
That means you're the type of person who will choose to mis treat others for your own amusement.
That person who chooses to make that choice on the computer is the same person who gets up and walks outside the doors of his house. Declarations of morality, good, evil, and whatnot are all subjective judgements based on your own social circle and upbringing, and are utterly inapplicable to anyone aside from yourself. Millions of people have died across the span of human history, simply due to the declaration of morality. I consider forcing your perspective of right and wrong on someone else to be the worse crime, overall. Simple example: you come across a group of people who, during war, tortures and kills POWs. You declare these people to be utterly evil and unworthy. Turns out, in this group's culture, being caught as a POW is considered an ultimate shame, and it's considered a great honor to give said person a chance to redeem their shame, by showing how brave they are during torture.
I'm allowed to have whatever morality I feel most aligned with. With it, I'm also allowed to consider the opposite of my beliefs as inferior.
Strangely enough, my belief better coincides with our societies. Both of us live in realms where it's not acceptable to take advantage of others for our personal gain at their expense.
You're the one trying to make a case that since you choose to live the opposite of our societal standards online, that it's acceptable. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:03:00 -
[373] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: And for the last time, no one is mistreating anyone in this game just by playing it within the confines of the rules. It's a game..
Life is a game, with its own rules and confines too.
He's right. As a moral entity, a personal is responsible for their actions whether ingame or out of it.
That the game does not punish, or even encourages the harming of others, does not change the ethical culpability of the person doing so (for whichever reason).
|
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2584
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:05:00 -
[374] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:So I asked in the Help channel and was answered by an ISD guy.
I was like, hey, is it OK to be nice to people? Or does everyone have to be always trying to steal and hurt others?
i was told that it's perfectly acceptable to choose how you wish to play the game, nice, miner, trader, industrialist.
So the choice is there.
We have the right to choose between being good and evil.
There's no contract we sign that states upon entering New Eden that you check your morality at the door.
If you feel compelled to mis treat people in game for your own amusement, well that's you making the choice.
That means you're the type of person who will choose to mis treat others for your own amusement.
That person who chooses to make that choice on the computer is the same person who gets up and walks outside the doors of his house. Declarations of morality, good, evil, and whatnot are all subjective judgements based on your own social circle and upbringing, and are utterly inapplicable to anyone aside from yourself. Millions of people have died across the span of human history, simply due to the declaration of morality. I consider forcing your perspective of right and wrong on someone else to be the worse crime, overall. Simple example: you come across a group of people who, during war, tortures and kills POWs. You declare these people to be utterly evil and unworthy. Turns out, in this group's culture, being caught as a POW is considered an ultimate shame, and it's considered a great honor to give said person a chance to redeem their shame, by showing how brave they are during torture. I'm allowed to have whatever morality I feel most aligned with. With it, I'm also allowed to consider the opposite of my beliefs as inferior. Strangely enough, my belief better coincides with our societies. Both of us live in realms where it's not acceptable to take advantage of others for our personal gain at their expense. You're the one trying to make a case that since you choose to live the opposite of our societal standards online, that it's acceptable.
There have been a few other societies that thought the way you do in the past. One springs to mind almost immediately: Germany, 1939. They loved using words like "inferior" when addressing the free expression of other people, instead of "different".
I know, I know, to all those aware, I know I just technically sprung Godwin's Law, but it appears to me to apply. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2760
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:07:00 -
[375] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Strangely enough, my belief better coincides with our societies.
There's that appeal to the higher authority of "consensus" again.
Prey animal. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2586
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:09:00 -
[376] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: And for the last time, no one is mistreating anyone in this game just by playing it within the confines of the rules. It's a game..
Life is a game, with its own rules and confines too. He's right. As a moral entity, a personal is responsible for their actions whether ingame or out of it. That the game does not punish, or even encourages the harming of others, does not change the ethical culpability of the person doing so (for whichever reason).
No, this is incorrect. Ethics or morals only apply to a video game insomuch as how we treat the actual person behind the game, not how we play the game within the confines of the rules. Blowing up a mining barge is neither ethical nor unethical, moral nor immoral. It is gameplay. The miner then telling the person who blew him up to go kill himself after the fact, that's when you can start to apply ethical/moral standards. This is not a fuzzy line, there are no grey areas here, it is very black and white. Gameplay does not conform to ethical or moral standards, otherwise everyone that played GTA would be in prison. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:10:00 -
[377] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:So I asked in the Help channel and was answered by an ISD guy.
I was like, hey, is it OK to be nice to people? Or does everyone have to be always trying to steal and hurt others?
i was told that it's perfectly acceptable to choose how you wish to play the game, nice, miner, trader, industrialist.
So the choice is there.
We have the right to choose between being good and evil.
There's no contract we sign that states upon entering New Eden that you check your morality at the door.
If you feel compelled to mis treat people in game for your own amusement, well that's you making the choice.
That means you're the type of person who will choose to mis treat others for your own amusement.
That person who chooses to make that choice on the computer is the same person who gets up and walks outside the doors of his house. Declarations of morality, good, evil, and whatnot are all subjective judgements based on your own social circle and upbringing, and are utterly inapplicable to anyone aside from yourself. Millions of people have died across the span of human history, simply due to the declaration of morality. I consider forcing your perspective of right and wrong on someone else to be the worse crime, overall. Simple example: you come across a group of people who, during war, tortures and kills POWs. You declare these people to be utterly evil and unworthy. Turns out, in this group's culture, being caught as a POW is considered an ultimate shame, and it's considered a great honor to give said person a chance to redeem their shame, by showing how brave they are during torture. I'm allowed to have whatever morality I feel most aligned with. With it, I'm also allowed to consider the opposite of my beliefs as inferior. Strangely enough, my belief better coincides with our societies. Both of us live in realms where it's not acceptable to take advantage of others for our personal gain at their expense. You're the one trying to make a case that since you choose to live the opposite of our societal standards online, that it's acceptable. There have been a few other societies that thought the way you do in the past. One springs to mind almost immediately: Germany, 1939. They loved using words like "inferior" when addressing the free expression of other people, instead of "different". I know, I know, to all those aware, I know I just technically sprung Godwin's Law, but it appears to me to apply.
Well if I ever suggest that CCP ban the accounts, report them to local authorities so they may be put in concentration camps and become victims of genocide, I guess you can report me.
Until then, you'll just have to live with my non-intrusive judgement of you as a person I do not feel as worthy of being trusted. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:11:00 -
[378] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I know, I know, to all those aware, I know I just technically sprung Godwin's Law, but it appears to me to apply.
What strikes me most about your posts, is a notable double standard and repetetive hypocrisy.
I find most of the moral critique you level at others, wouls actually be, in many cases, far more suitably levelled at yourself.
Its called projection. Where you start externalising, attributing and perceiving fault of something in others, rather than realising it is, infact, yourself you are talking about.
Its quite funny to read. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2586
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:16:00 -
[379] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Well if I ever suggest that CCP ban the accounts, report them to local authorities so they may be put in concentration camps and become victims of genocide, I guess you can report me.
Until then, you'll just have to live with my non-intrusive judgement of you as a person I do not feel as worthy of being trusted.
I don't know what's going on in your head, and frankly I don't want to. You are about as important to me as dogshit I might scrape off my boots, so whether you trust me or not is so beyond my scope of caring, it never really registered. What you think of me is also irrelevant, but if you're going to openly insult me by making open assumptions about my character and addressing me as "immoral", then what makes you think I don't have the right to address that?
What gives you free hand to make those assumptions without criticism? What the actual **** makes you superior to me in any way? Nothing, that's what. By proclaiming yourself superior, you become exactly what you first accused me of being: elitist. You also quickly make yourself a lesser person. It's like I said, no one can make themselves better than anyone else, and no one can make someone else lesser, but you can most definitely lower yourself as a person, especially when you try to do one of the first two.
Your judgement may be non-intrusive, but it's offensive. It's a personal attack, and nothing but. You want to rise above others? You're only ever going to accomplish that by not being a complete ****. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2586
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:18:00 -
[380] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:
I know, I know, to all those aware, I know I just technically sprung Godwin's Law, but it appears to me to apply.
What strikes me most about your posts, is a notable double standard and repetetive hypocrisy. I find most of the moral critique you level at others, wouls actually be, in many cases, far more suitably levelled at yourself. Its called projection. Where you start externalising, attributing and perceiving fault of something in others, rather than realising it is, infact, yourself you are talking about.
Provide examples or **** off. Show me one post where I haven't made a judgement based on observation of judgements levelled at me. Provide one example of where I've made a call without having the evidence there, in writing, to base it off. Or you're no better than DE. In fact, I'm just gonna assume you are DE trying to save himself with an alt by making himself look more popular. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2761
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:24:00 -
[381] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:In fact, I'm just gonna assume you are DE trying to save himself with an alt by making himself look more popular.
Yeah, my first thought when I saw this new guy was "Look, he figured out how to make an alt to agree with himself." Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:26:00 -
[382] - Quote
Look at me. I've traveled through about 20 combined pages of people attacking me, insulting me, and how to I react?
As i did at the beginning. Sticking to my belief, and no melt downs.
You get a fraction of the criticism I've received and you lose your mind.
You've lost your mind.
What does this mean? It means you're a person who is incredibly insecure. You NEED me to respect you, because without mine, you can't respect yourself.
Why? I don't know. If you wish to send me a PM, we can talk off the record. I'm a good guy, I'll help you.
You need to HTFU. Look at me. I'm so secure, I can pick a fight with hundreds of random strangers, fight for hours on end completely outnumbered, and still be looking for more!
You just need to find your confidence. Be proud of you.
Dont care what I say! You will never control everyone, you will never be liked by everyone. Love yourself, and you won't need to base your self worth on what you perceive as others perception of you.
The mind is tricky. Together we can make you stronger. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2586
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:32:00 -
[383] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Look at me. I've traveled through about 20 combined pages of people attacking me, insulting me, and how to I react?
Yeah, you've held up pretty well considering the attacks on everyone else that you made, which resulted in their retaliation. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:39:00 -
[384] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Look at me. I've traveled through about 20 combined pages of people attacking me, insulting me, and how to I react? Yeah, you've held up pretty well considering the attacks on everyone else that you made, which resulted in their retaliation. I just cracked my second beer for the evening myself, after stealing the majority of a mission runner's loot. Bottom line is, it was you and your unfounded judgements of the character of people you don't know anything about that are the reason that you might well be one of the most hunted people in New Eden, soon to be one of the most blown up. Not that your KB was ever any good to begin with, considering you're new and all, but if I were you, I'd just disappear instead of digging yourself deeper. and deeper and deeper with every post.
#dosomethingaboutit
Prove to me how easy it is to manipulate you.
So far today, while being undocked for like 12 hours, no one attacked me. you know why? because everyone realizes I'm #thebest and they're all afraid of me.
Everyone is afraid of me.
I'm thebest at everything. I'm even the best at modesty. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:52:00 -
[385] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:No, this is incorrect. Ethics or morals only apply to a video game insomuch as how we treat the actual person behind the game, not how we play the game within the confines of the rules. Blowing up a mining barge is neither ethical nor unethical, moral nor immoral. It is gameplay. The miner then telling the person who blew him up to go kill himself after the fact, that's when you can start to apply ethical/moral standards. This is not a fuzzy line, there are no grey areas here, it is very black and white. Gameplay does not conform to ethical or moral standards, otherwise everyone that played GTA would be in prison.
No lol.
First of all, in GTA, you are not perpetrating acts against other humans. You cannot commit a criminal or morally reprehensible act against a piece of coding, anymore than you can a grain of sand.
The act of stealing, for example, from another person, is morally reprehensible. If you, as an autonomous moral entity who is responsible for their own choices as well as of sound mine, chooses to steal from another autonomous entity, whether that be in the virtual microcosm of EVE, or from your next door neighbour, both are still stealing. Both are still a choice to take from another something that is not rightfull yours.
The only way that EVE and IRL differ in this regard, is that because the act happens within the virrtualcontext of the game, and as that context does not have rules against such conduct, there are also few to no punitive measures taken against your for doing so. Whereas IRL there are laws which are enforced upon someone stealing, in EVE there are not rules which are enforced upon someine stealing (though actually there are, namely in the flagging system). Thisnindicates that even within the microcosm of EVE, stealing is a morally reprehensible act, aviolation of the autonomy and property of another individual, and hence, the flagging system exists. If there was absolutely zero moral repudiation of stealing in EVE, tyere would be no flagging system, and you could steal with impunity.
The games internal system of rules, does not govern what morality is for the individuals playing it, nor for morality overall. It is still stealing, in act and intent. Even the same word is used to describe it both ingame, and out of game. It is not somehow turned into something other than stealing simply because it happens in a game. Caveat: None of us own any of the ingame representaions of items. Everything in the game belongs to CCP.
Which brings another ethical evel to this discussiin, which is consent. All players consent to a set of rules as a term of entry. We agree to abide by the subsystem of rules that the specific service of the game embodies. Inter/national laws still overarch them, but in most cases, what happens in the game, is governed primarily by its internal and consentual framework.
But that doesnt change the fact that we are all morally responsible individuals playing it. Stealing is, in moral terms, just as rephrehensible an act in EVE, as it is outside of EVE. The only difference is the subset of rukes we have all consented to, in EVE does not legally punish that act.
Laws and rules do not govern or dictate what is right or wrong, or what is good and bad. They merely dictate and define what is punished and what is not. People define what is right or wrong, or good and bad, and are subjective immaterial abstract values.
You can perform all the self-justification and ego acrobatics you want, in terms of trying to defend an act of theft you perform in EVE. That is between you and your own moral conscience and determination. But that doesnt change one whit, that it is still, infact, stealing from another individual. If you are unable to discern that, then its you who has become distanced from the penultimate reality that it is HUMANS playing EVE, and from whom you are stealing. Real people with real lives sitting at their computers, just like you. Not some morally devoid bits and code.
That can be a tough realisation for many online. Its all too easy to dehumanise the experience, and think of everyone else who is infact a real person out there, as a meaningless abstraction. Just pixels or words on a screen. Its easier that way, and convenient for the ego. Understandable, but in and of itself, amoral, and unbecoming behavior of a moral human being.
Its fine to steal in EVE. It is not overtly punished, national laws do not recognise it as stealing according to their legalisms. It is even encouraged for various reasons, and I support it as that.
But sont trick yourself into thinking it isnt still stealing. Atleast do the person you are stealing from, the small consideration of realising they are a real person that you are taking from. Stealing from them is fine, reducing them to an abstraction and dehumanising them by disregarding that they exist as an autonomous entity at their screen, just like you, is not.
Your are stealing from another person. If you dont atleast recog ise that, and the moral implication to yourself, and to the other person, then I think you may need to get out more. |
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:55:00 -
[386] - Quote
What are you talking about, these forums have a lot of nice people.
Sure, there are some negative and hostile ones, but many of them are just stupid. Master trole 2014. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2588
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:01:00 -
[387] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:No, this is incorrect. Ethics or morals only apply to a video game insomuch as how we treat the actual person behind the game, not how we play the game within the confines of the rules. Blowing up a mining barge is neither ethical nor unethical, moral nor immoral. It is gameplay. The miner then telling the person who blew him up to go kill himself after the fact, that's when you can start to apply ethical/moral standards. This is not a fuzzy line, there are no grey areas here, it is very black and white. Gameplay does not conform to ethical or moral standards, otherwise everyone that played GTA would be in prison. No lol. First of all, in GTA, you are not perpetrating acts against other humans. You cannot commit a criminal or morally reprehensible act against a piece of coding, anymore than you can a grain of sand.
After this, your wall of text became irrelevant. What makes you think EVE, a piece of coding, is anything different in this regard?
You know GTA's Online mode? If you play that, say a matchmaking session, where you perpetrate acts of murder against other players, is it then criminal or morally reprehensible just because you're doing it to another player's code instead of the AI? No, it's not. So why is it different in EVE?
And you really do sound exactly like DE. I guess I was right, you are one and the same. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Brendan Anneto
Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans
20
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:05:00 -
[388] - Quote
Because people like you post that ****!!! Proverbs 1:26-27 |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:06:00 -
[389] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Great Post
Thanks for taking the time to write that. There's alot of really negative people here. It's nice knowing you exist.
I'd understand if you don't wish to reply to me. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2593
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:08:00 -
[390] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Great Post Thanks for taking the time to write that. There's alot of really negative people here. It's nice knowing you exist. I'd understand if you don't wish to reply to me.
How cute, he's talking to himself. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16795
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:11:00 -
[391] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Great Post Thanks for taking the time to write that. There's alot of really negative people here. It's nice knowing you exist. I'd understand if you don't wish to reply to me. We won't think any less of you for talking to yourself.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2763
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:12:00 -
[392] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Great Post Thanks for taking the time to write that. There's alot of really negative people here. It's nice knowing you exist. I'd understand if you don't wish to reply to me. We won't think any less of you for talking to yourself.
Speak for yourself. That goes waaaay beyond the normal talking to oneself. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16795
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:15:00 -
[393] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Great Post Thanks for taking the time to write that. There's alot of really negative people here. It's nice knowing you exist. I'd understand if you don't wish to reply to me. We won't think any less of you for talking to yourself. Speak for yourself. That goes waaaay beyond the normal talking to oneself. True. But I guessed we'd all reached the point that it's not possible to think any less of him.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2766
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:18:00 -
[394] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Great Post Thanks for taking the time to write that. There's alot of really negative people here. It's nice knowing you exist. I'd understand if you don't wish to reply to me. We won't think any less of you for talking to yourself. Speak for yourself. That goes waaaay beyond the normal talking to oneself. True. But I guessed we'd all reached the point that it's not possible to think any less of him.
This guy doesn't know the meaning of "rock bottom". He's got more shovels than Home Depot. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:19:00 -
[395] - Quote
It's not me.
At least I believe it's not me. I noticed some similarities.
Like what if I've been multiple people this entire time, and I cannot see that I am him?
CCP can you check our IPs? and let us know if we match. Consider it a charity work, checking to see if I have multiple personalities I'm unaware of.
Everyone report this post so CCP will compare our IPs.
For the record I'd like to state if he is me, I didn't know I was afflicted until this moment. Until it's verified we're still the same person, I'm going to believe I'm only this singular individual I know of as myself.
I mean, I do kind of believe that since pre big-bang, since all matter was condensed, connected with itself, and due to quantum entanglement, that essentially all of us are connected. We're all in a sense, energetically entangled with each other, especially considering how similar our DNA is with each other.
Carl Sagan once said, "We are the universe contemplating itself" |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:36:00 -
[396] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: After this, your wall of text became irrelevant. What makes you think EVE, a piece of coding, is anything different in this regard?
No lol. But thanks for proving my point Stealing in EVE, is no different than stealing IRL interms of an act and intent of taking from another what is not yours without their consent. Whether stealing happens in a bits/code environment, or in IRL, it is still stealing.
Remiel Pollard wrote:And you really do sound exactly like DE. I guess I was right, you are one and the same. I am not the same person. So no, you are wrong, again, as you are generally on just about everything. Furthermore, I think you need to step away from the keyboard because online psychosis is beginning to show. Again, dehumanising other humans online, because you are becoming distanced from the reality that the internet is infact filled with real humans, eho are just as real and complex as you yourself are. Seriously, understand how ridiculous you are at thismmoment, when I am infact not the same person as DE, but a completely separate autonomous individual who hasnt even seen or read of the guy until this thread.
Do you understand how laughable that makes you? What it evidences about you?
I understand where DE comes from. Why? Because I am interested in ethics as well as having a legal background. More importantly, what he is actually talking about, as I perceive it, and as the underlying thrust of his position here, is the moral hypocrisy of many peoples behavior online. They act in ways which are morally reprehensible, yet their ego shields them through any number of self-justifying acrobatics, that somehow they are still a "moral, nice, good and kind" person.
An absolutely moral, good and kind persondoes not steal from others. Whether ingame, or out of it. Having said that, it is fine to steal in EVE, but that doesnt change that you are infact stealing. Steal all you want, but dont kid yourself that you are, infact, stealing from another person.
Remiel Pollard wrote:Did you know, there is such a thing as objective morality? It is defined by the consequences of actions. Stealing from someone is morally wrong because the consequences are harmful; however, what if there are no consequences? What if, say in a video game, the consequences themselves are restricted to the video game, and harm no one in real life? Oh sure, you can go on about how much time you spent earning that ISK, but my response to that would be, #firstworldproblems.
Completely false. Stealing is not morally wrong because there are "consequences", ie: the laws dictate punishment as handed out by the judiciary and enacted by the police. Stealing is morally wrong because it is the willfull violation of another individuals autinomy and nominal right to their property. It is theirs, not yours.
As to there being no consequences to the person being stolen from, as you claim... What? So if I steal every single item and last cent of ISK that you possess in this game, that has no consequence to you as an autonomous individual playing, as well as to the online entity that is character from which I stole?
I dont even know how to respond to someone who makes such an inane and ludicruous statement except by stating that it reinforces and proves correct my observation of you as a double standarded and hypocritical individual who does not think or introspect before they speak.
Please, tell me again how if I steal evertyhing your character possesses, that thatbhas no consequences for you? |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1304
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:42:00 -
[397] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
Contrary to other games. Eve has its forums as part of the game. A lot of politics and warfare happens in the forums. Eve is a harsh game.. be in space be in its forums. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2767
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:44:00 -
[398] - Quote
So... I see we're back to the "If you win at Monopoly you must be evil!" thing again.
Because by your metric, DE, (and yes, you are both DE) that can be nothing but stealing. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
282
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:47:00 -
[399] - Quote
Quote: Symptoms of this disorder, as defined by the DSM-IV-TR include:
Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others Envies others and believes others envy him/her Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic
|
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1180
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:50:00 -
[400] - Quote
It's really ultimately very silly, to judge the worth of a person solely based around the numbers in a game database, said numbers having been generated by the arbitrary rules of the devs.
Tomorrow, CCP could say "OK, ganking no longer calls concord, consider all space to be lowsec!" They could also say "Failure to finish a mission causes sec status loss." They can change any portion of the rules some of you people use to judge a person's character, and there's jack-all you can do about it.
To go along with that, rather than make your own decision on a person's "worth", you give CCP the power to do that for you. "Low sec status ganker, must be a scumbag!"
Thirdly, it's a trivial move to change oneself in this game. I can go log on my +5 sec status mission runner, and unless I say otherwise, I'll be treated as a fine upstanding member of the community etc etc.
I'll posit this for the EVE=Real people. Lets say you're playing a multiplayer FPS shooter. You kill a guy, and he throws a raging fit at you about how you've screwed his K:D ratio up. He's a professional gamer, and that K:D ratio is his bread and butter. You've caused him an actual loss. Do you, as fine upstanding moral and good people, stop killing the guy, coz you're impacting him for real? The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:52:00 -
[401] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So... I see we're back to the "If you win at Monopoly you must be evil!" thing again.
Because by your metric, DE, (and yes, you are both DE) that can be nothing but stealing.
Coming from the guy who has in his sig specifically the information that he is "not posting on his main" ie: as his primary ingame persona, and celebrating freedom of speach, I got a hearty laugh out of that.
What wondeful double standards, What fabulous hypocrisy. What utter lack of introspection.
And what makes it even funnier, is that I truly am not DE.
As to Monopoly and stealing. If you reach over into another players monehs, or grab a stack of 500s from the bank, the guess what, that again, is infact stealing. No more, and no less.
And yes, usually the Monopoly winner is the "evil" guy. As infact is true of most wealthy and successful people. Nobody gets rich on a 9-5 "honest" job. Nothing wrong with that.
Consider, who is the more moral individual: -The person who does not steal ingame or out of it. -The person who steals ingame but not out of it. -The person who steals ingame and out of it. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2601
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 10:56:00 -
[402] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Stuff that's been debunked time and again throughout the history of gaming.
No, morality is defined by consequences, law is something else entirely. Law is not defined by morality.
And no, there are no consequences that matter if you steal my stuff on EVE, because in the real world, you've taken nothing that actually matters. If your gamestuff actually matters to you, at least on the same level as your real world stuff, then I suggest you lack perspective. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2775
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:00:00 -
[403] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
As to Monopoly and stealing. If you reach over into another players monehs, or grab a stack of 500s from the bank, the guess what, that again, is infact stealing. No more, and no less.
And yes, usually the Monopoly winner is the "evil" guy. As infact is true of most weslthy and successful people. Nobody gets rich on a 9-5 "honest" job.
The difference between your examples are that my stealing from/ransoming/looting the flaming wreckage of another player are all perfectly permissible acts within the rules of the game.
Whereas the only "evil" act you can trump up for Monopoly is, in fact, a violation of the rules of the game.
Quod Erat Demonstratum. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:04:00 -
[404] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:And no, there are no consequences that matter if you steal my stuff on EVE, because in the real world, you've taken nothing that actually matters. If your gamestuff actually matters to you, at least on the same level as your real world stuff, then I suggest you lack perspective.
HAH. Yeah, you say that now, but Id love to see your face if everything you have in this game is taken from you.
Again, double standards, hypocrisy, and a general disregard for integrity and honesty in discourse.
If your ingame assets mean nothing to you, then why do you retain them. Just give them away then. Oh, you won't? Well, it would seem they mean something to you afterall. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2601
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:04:00 -
[405] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Consider, who is the more moral individual: -The person who does not steal ingame or out of it. -The person who steals ingame but not out of it. -The person who steals ingame and out of it.
Last I checked, you're the only person competing for moral superiority here, so this is only relevant in your own tiny mind. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2601
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:06:00 -
[406] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:And no, there are no consequences that matter if you steal my stuff on EVE, because in the real world, you've taken nothing that actually matters. If your gamestuff actually matters to you, at least on the same level as your real world stuff, then I suggest you lack perspective. HAH. Yeah, you say that now, but Id love to see your face if everything you have in this game is taken from you.
Wait, what? You say you would revel in what you perceive as someone else's misery? That reminds me how hypocritical Christians are: "God is love, but I wish I could see you burn in hell for not believing as I do." You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:08:00 -
[407] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Consider, who is the more moral individual: -The person who does not steal ingame or out of it. -The person who steals ingame but not out of it. -The person who steals ingame and out of it. Last I checked, you're the only person competing for moral superiority here, so this is only relevant in your own tiny mind.
Im not competing for moral superiority, though I can see how your narrow and self-justifying perspective would interpret it that way. You see this as a personal issue, not as a discussion on morality overall.
Im arguing that all individuals are moral and responsible entities, whether online or off. Stealing is stealing, whether it happens ingame or out of it, and a person who makes the choice to do so, is morally responsible for choosing that act. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:09:00 -
[408] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Wait, what? You say you would revel in what you perceive as someone else's misery? That reminds me how hypocritical Christians are: "God is love, but I wish I could see you burn in hell for not believing as I do."
I would revel in the vindication of my perspective of you, and that your lies and hypocrisy would finally be put to the test, and shown to be the dishonest lies that they actually are.
Yes, your rage and crying at losing everything would be very valuable and enjoyable to me. ESPECIALLY, because you actually have the outrageous audacity, to blatantly claim that it would mean nothing. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2601
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:10:00 -
[409] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Consider, who is the more moral individual: -The person who does not steal ingame or out of it. -The person who steals ingame but not out of it. -The person who steals ingame and out of it. Last I checked, you're the only person competing for moral superiority here, so this is only relevant in your own tiny mind. Im not competing for moral superiority, though I can see how your narrow and self-justifying perspective would interpret it that way. You see this as a personal issue, not as a discussion on morality overall. Im arguing that all individuals are moral and responsible entities, whether online or off. Stealing is stealing, whether it happens ingame or out of it, and a person who makes the choice to do so, is morally responsible for choosing that act.
That's where you're wrong. You're only morally responsible for the consequences of that act. If there are no consequences, then there is no question of morality. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
135
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:29:00 -
[410] - Quote
Because somehow throwing a large number of objects in a game makes stupid people feel smart. So they all gather here. To bad it's just an illusion. |
|
Doireen Kaundur
Riftmage
39
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 11:41:00 -
[411] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
sexual frustration? |
Qweasdy
Justified Chaos
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 13:07:00 -
[412] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:And no, there are no consequences that matter if you steal my stuff on EVE, because in the real world, you've taken nothing that actually matters. If your gamestuff actually matters to you, at least on the same level as your real world stuff, then I suggest you lack perspective. HAH. Yeah, you say that now, but Id love to see your face if everything you have in this game is taken from you. Id furthermore pay real money to see your face when the people who take it laugh and mock you. That would be truly beer/popcorn. Again, double standards, hypocrisy, and a general disregard for integrity and honesty in discourse. If your ingame assets mean nothing to you, then why do you retain them. Just give them away then. Oh, you won't? Well, it would seem they mean something to you afterall.
I know exactly what would happen;
Either he would suck it up and continue on and work his way back or he would stop playing entirely. That's important, the fact that he can choose to stop playing at any point, he can "opt out". THAT's why there are no consequences that matter. And as Remiel said above if there are no consequences that matter to an action how can it possibly be morally reprehensible? This is a terrible thread. As such, it's locked. - CCP Falcon
|
Luwc
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
46
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 13:09:00 -
[413] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
you are beautiful and your shirt really matches your shoes and beautiful eyes today. You are also a wonderful person and your hair smells like roses (because sniff it when you sleep)
also ... HTFU |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
135
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 13:21:00 -
[414] - Quote
Luwc wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. you are beautiful and your shirt really matches your shoes and beautiful eyes today. You are also a wonderful person and your hair smells like roses (because I sniff it when you sleep) also ... HTFU
And as you can see the intelligence is overwhelming. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4868
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 13:27:00 -
[415] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Whatever makes you feel better. Why you're so caught up in my definition of right and wrong is beyond me, but apparently you have a need to control other's opinions.
Sorry, but I'll not let you control mine.
This what you just said is the spiritual cousin of "you just want me to play the game your way", ie the standard fall back defensive BS people resort to when people like me reveal the vileness and and unworthiness of how they think about things.
No one is trying to control you (no one cares that you exist in the 1st place). I'm simply here, in a public online discussion forum informing you that everything about what you think is wrong. You can take my revealing this uncomfortable truth about you to you as some attempt at control, but it is not, it an (successful) attempt at point out your outrageous personality flaws to our peers.
Quote: Everyone I've spoken to has directly addressed me first, including you. I said nothing negative to you.
You disparaged our fellow gamers based on a warped sense of real world morality, which is wrong given that we are all playing a video game that is separate from reality. I don't need for you to insult me personally to feel insulted for others.
Quote: I stated my belief that someone who does bad things online is also a bad person offline. For some reason, I dont know maybe you felt guilty because you do bad things, or you felt angry someone had the audacity to judge you in a fashion other than how you see yourself, you felt it necessary to engage in a conversation with me about my beliefs on right and wrong.
I engage you on conversation on the scant hope that you will see the error of you ways. Judging people negatively inside a situation (such as a video game) by outside (reality) standards ironically demonstrates that it's you who are the bad person IRL.
Quote: Disrespect? Maybe. Was i disrespected first? Most definitely.
You reap what you sow.
Which is why you are reaping this whirlwind of uncomfortable truth about yourself, and why your posts are increasingly whiny and defensive. You are getting now only what you deserve: the same lack of respect YOU 1st displayed to others. It's not surprising that you seem unable to take responsibility for your postings, in the same way you seem to be unable to take responsibility for your choice to play a game where "evil" is encouraged.
|
Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
232
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 13:38:00 -
[416] - Quote
This thread is disturbing.
Also, it stinks of improper use of the word "literally". |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4868
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:00:00 -
[417] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Consider, who is the more moral individual: -The person who does not steal ingame or out of it. -The person who steals ingame but not out of it. -The person who steals ingame and out of it. Last I checked, you're the only person competing for moral superiority here, so this is only relevant in your own tiny mind. Im not competing for moral superiority, though I can see how your narrow and self-justifying perspective would interpret it that way. You see this as a personal issue, not as a discussion on morality overall. Im arguing that all individuals are moral and responsible entities, whether online or off. Stealing is stealing, whether it happens ingame or out of it, and a person who makes the choice to do so, is morally responsible for choosing that act.
Even when playing a game called Thief online, which might as well be the name of EVE.
The part you are missing is that EVE is a game, nothing in it is real. You can steal things that don't really exist lol. CCP could shut down EVE and wipe every drive they own and it wouldn't matter one bit anywhere except in the minds of EVE players.
This all is an example of people taking a virtual world to seriously. A few weeks ago I fell for a scam in Rens. I was in a hurry and didn't configure my market window correctly and ended up paying several hundred million isk for a T1 hauler in one of the Sister's of EVE stations.
I was irked, not at the brilliant game player playing within the rules who set up that sell order in a place where he figured people would be in a hurry and not paying attention, but at myself because I stupidly let myself get into a hurry in a video game that allows people to punish stupidity and haste.
The above reaction is the adult reaction, the reaction one should have in a video game based on the concept of conflict (which EVE is).. Those of you who would react to that event as if the other player was some how "wrong" are in my opinion the folks most likely to be "morally reprehensible" people in real life.
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1364
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:10:00 -
[418] - Quote
That's the problem Jenn.
There are people who can't seem to separate a person's action out of game from one's actions out of game.
For example, a person who shoots at other people or steals their stuff, or who advocates and crusades for another's choice to engage in said activities, could never be a member of the law enforcement community.
They are incapable of disassociating between an in game persona and an out of game personality.
Because they're stupid. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16803
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:19:00 -
[419] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So... I see we're back to the "If you win at Monopoly you must be evil!" thing again.
Because by your metric, DE, (and yes, you are both DE) that can be nothing but stealing. Coming from the guy who has in his sig specifically the information that he is "not posting on his main" ie: as his primary ingame persona, and celebrating freedom of speach, I got a hearty laugh out of that. What wondeful double standards, What fabulous hypocrisy. What utter lack of introspection. And what makes it even funnier, is that I truly am not DE. As to Monopoly and stealing. If you reach over into another players monehs, or grab a stack of 500s from the bank, the guess what, that again, is infact stealing. No more, and no less. And yes, usually the Monopoly winner is the "evil" guy. As infact is true of most wealthy and successful people. Nobody gets rich on a 9-5 "honest" job. Nothing wrong with that. Consider, who is the more moral individual: -The person who does not steal ingame or out of it. -The person who steals ingame but not out of it. -The person who steals ingame and out of it. Just a quick question on your stance here. Would you say that for it to qualify as stealing, you would need to show ownership of said item first?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1185
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:19:00 -
[420] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:That's the problem Jenn.
There are people who can't seem to separate a person's action in game from one's actions out of game.
For example, a person who shoots at other people or steals their stuff, or who advocates and crusades for another's choice to engage in said activities, could never be a member of the law enforcement community.
They are incapable of disassociating between an in game persona and an out of game personality.
Because they're stupid.
I had people straight tell me there's no way I could be a combat veteran and a nurse in real life, because "Veterans have morals and would never gank and scam in EVE."
Those same people always seem very interested in telling my employer what I do in EVE, for some reason. The real life/video game disconnect is quite weak in many people. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4874
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:19:00 -
[421] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:That's the problem Jenn.
There are people who can't seem to separate a person's action in game from one's actions out of game.
For example, a person who shoots at other people or steals their stuff, or who advocates and crusades for another's choice to engage in said activities, could never be a member of the law enforcement community.
They are incapable of disassociating between an in game persona and an out of game personality.
Because they're stupid.
Personally, I do hate the fact that the game is seperate from real life. I would LOVE to just be able to wake up in the morning, get dressed, have breakfast, the go to the hood and "rat" some bloods (or crips....) and every 20 minutes the Government puts money in my account. EVE should be real damn it. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4874
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:27:00 -
[422] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:That's the problem Jenn.
There are people who can't seem to separate a person's action in game from one's actions out of game.
For example, a person who shoots at other people or steals their stuff, or who advocates and crusades for another's choice to engage in said activities, could never be a member of the law enforcement community.
They are incapable of disassociating between an in game persona and an out of game personality.
Because they're stupid. I had people straight tell me there's no way I could be a combat veteran and a nurse in real life, because "Veterans have morals and would never gank and scam in EVE." Those same people always seem very interested in telling my employer what I do in EVE, for some reason. The real life/video game disconnect is quite weak in many people.
Mental illness, plain and simple. There is no other explanation for how someone can play a video game, suck at that game (as evidenced by the fact that they fell for you scam or gank ) blame someone else (you) for that sucking and lash out at you OUT OF GAME.
|
Mythrandier
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
338
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:30:00 -
[423] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: I was irked, not at the brilliant game player playing within the rules who set up that sell order in a place where he figured people would be in a hurry and not paying attention, but at myself because I stupidly let myself get into a hurry in a video game that allows people to punish stupidity and haste.
The above reaction is the adult reaction, the reaction one should have in a video game based on the concept of conflict (which EVE is).. Those of you who would react to that event as if the other player was some how "wrong" are in my opinion the folks most likely to be "morally reprehensible" people in real life.
Agreed Jenn, Its like the bile and vitriol that gets spat out in local when ever a miner is ganked. These people (who by some folks standards are the moral ones, because they donGÇÖt GÇ£killGÇ¥ other players) will spew RL death threats, curse your family and wish horrendous diseases on you simply because they died to their own stupidity.
You blow up a pvpGÇÖers space pixels and 99% of the time all you get in local is GÇ£gfGÇ¥ and maybe a bit of friendly banter regarding fits/tactics. Hardly the same situation, is it?
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --á D. Adams. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16804
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:39:00 -
[424] - Quote
Mythrandier wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: I was irked, not at the brilliant game player playing within the rules who set up that sell order in a place where he figured people would be in a hurry and not paying attention, but at myself because I stupidly let myself get into a hurry in a video game that allows people to punish stupidity and haste.
The above reaction is the adult reaction, the reaction one should have in a video game based on the concept of conflict (which EVE is).. Those of you who would react to that event as if the other player was some how "wrong" are in my opinion the folks most likely to be "morally reprehensible" people in real life.
Agreed Jenn, Its like the bile and vitriol that gets spat out in local when ever a miner is ganked. These people (who by some folks standards are the moral ones, because they donGÇÖt GÇ£killGÇ¥ other players) will spew RL death threats, curse your family and wish horrendous diseases on you simply because they died to their own stupidity. You blow up a pvpGÇÖers space pixels and 99% of the time all you get in local is GÇ£gfGÇ¥ and maybe a bit of friendly banter regarding fits/tactics. Hardly the same situation, is it? Some of our worst and at the same time most humorous mails, are from these moral types. DE fits that bill nicely. I say humorous, because the reaction in of itself, is what garners the laughter and notion of tears. Not the actual gank.
I have in fact given people ISK who I have just ganked, because they asked questions on how it was done and wanted to learn all aspects of the game. I would take their attitude each and every day, over the moral high ground crowd.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
115
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 14:58:00 -
[425] - Quote
EVE is a harsh and cold world, a game played by tough men. Only the strongest surive GROARRRRR.
Excuse me, i just wanted to join the circle jerk |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1185
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:05:00 -
[426] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Some of our worst and at the same time most humorous mails, are from these moral types. DE fits that bill nicely. I say humorous, because the reaction in of itself, is what garners the laughter and notion of tears. Not the actual gank.
I have in fact given people ISK who I have just ganked, because they asked questions on how it was done and wanted to learn all aspects of the game. I would take their attitude each and every day, over the moral high ground crowd.
I'm reminded of an incident I had about a year ago. I was rabidly anti-gank, super carebear. Ended up in the hospital for surgery. Soon as I got free and came back to EVE, I was lamblasted by my highsec no pirates good-guy corp for my absence. "OMG we needed Orca support! You trying to say you didn't have internet in the hospital?! You missed 3 mining ops that''s a 50mil ISK fine."
So, needless to say, I decided to screw them over, and ducked over to The New Order. Not even 5 minutes in channel, everyone was friendly, happy, and made me feel extremely welcome. Nobody there even knew me, but they acted like we'd been pals for years.
Since then, I've always felt that the most toxic element of EVE is the "good guy" morality squad. The gankers, pirates, and "lowlife scum" always seem to be the nicest people ever, once you take a step away from EVE. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Luwc
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:05:00 -
[427] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Luwc wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. you are beautiful and your shirt really matches your shoes and beautiful eyes today. You are also a wonderful person and your hair smells like roses (because I sniff it when you sleep) also ... HTFU And as you can see the intelligence is overwhelming.
Thank you :)
<3
|
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
912
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:18:00 -
[428] - Quote
As hostile and negative as this community is I like the threads here more than on other MMOs
"WHAT IS YOUR FAVOURITE COLOUR? [POLL]" "OMG X CLASS IS OP I QUIT!" "LOLZ WOW WAS RELEASED WITH EVERYTHING PERFECT AND NEVER NEEDED PATCHING THIS GAME SUX!" "I HAD TO DO EFFORT AND NOW I QUIT! BECAUSE I WANTED TO JUST LOG IN AND RECEIVE PWN GEAR!" "SOMEONE SAID BOOBS IN THE PUBLIC CHAT I AM OFFENDED BAN THEM!" "I GAVE SOMEONE ACCESS TO MY GUILD BANK AND HE STOLE EVERYTHING, GMS BAN HIM AND GIVE ME MY STUFF!"
Okay I feel better again now. Lieutenant Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
I post on my main... shocking I know! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4875
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:23:00 -
[429] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:Mag's wrote:Some of our worst and at the same time most humorous mails, are from these moral types. DE fits that bill nicely. I say humorous, because the reaction in of itself, is what garners the laughter and notion of tears. Not the actual gank.
I have in fact given people ISK who I have just ganked, because they asked questions on how it was done and wanted to learn all aspects of the game. I would take their attitude each and every day, over the moral high ground crowd. I'm reminded of an incident I had about a year ago. I was rabidly anti-gank, super carebear. Ended up in the hospital for surgery. Soon as I got free and came back to EVE, I was lamblasted by my highsec no pirates good-guy corp for my absence. "OMG we needed Orca support! You trying to say you didn't have internet in the hospital?! You missed 3 mining ops that''s a 50mil ISK fine." So, needless to say, I decided to screw them over, and ducked over to The New Order. Not even 5 minutes in channel, everyone was friendly, happy, and made me feel extremely welcome. Nobody there even knew me, but they acted like we'd been pals for years. Since then, I've always felt that the most toxic element of EVE is the "good guy" morality squad. The gankers, pirates, and "lowlife scum" always seem to be the nicest people ever, once you take a step away from EVE.
That sounds very much like my experience with Goons lol. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2557
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:24:00 -
[430] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:You missed 3 mining ops that''s a 50mil ISK fine." seriously? |
|
Mythrandier
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
340
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:26:00 -
[431] - Quote
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Since then, I've always felt that the most toxic element of EVE is the "good guy" morality squad. The gankers, pirates, and "lowlife scum" always seem to be the nicest people ever, once you take a step away from EVE.
Indeed, I honestly think it comes down to an inability to separate reality from the game. To us GÇ£lowlifesGÇ¥ its just a game, we play for fun and relaxation (in my case I have a VERY stressy job so it helps) but to the GÇ£moral high groundGÇ¥ types we are all psychos and loons because we violence pixels in an MMORPG based around doing violence to pixelsGǪ "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --á D. Adams. |
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
115
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:27:00 -
[432] - Quote
Turelus wrote: "SOMEONE SAID BOOBS IN THE PUBLIC CHAT I AM OFFENDED BAN THEM!"
This happens in EVE too. A friend of mine got insta banned a few days for posting stuff in local. I understand that the others guys (test alliance in this case) reported him because they wanted him banned, but the gms should respond to those reports with a big middlefinger to the "offended guy".
|
Miichael Epic
The Neutral Zone
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 15:52:00 -
[433] - Quote
Winchester Steele wrote:Are you a high-sec miner? Just curious.
(Protip: if you're posting a diatribe about people being d-bags on the forum, it usually helps your case to NOT be the biggest D-bag in the entire thread.)
Sometimes the replies I see floor me. It makes me curious just how far away from actual acumen people get. Your reply kind of struck me as odd.
Diatribe? Not even close. I'm wasn't even the slightest bit angry or getting close to tirade, I was just answering the OP's question. I wasn't posting about people being douchebags either...I was posting about their behind the curtain inadequacies that often inspire and generate the negativity and hostility the OP was asking about.
You, however have decided to step into this thread and single me out so you could call me the "biggest d-bag in the entire thread" because....well you know what? I have no idea why.
So not only did you try to "big word" me with diatribe, which didn't apply at all but you also implied a point I didn't even reference or discuss that wasn't even relevant in order to call me a d-bag to satisfy your shortcomings.
You know that feeling you got in your stomach when you read my original post? You know that feeling you have in your stomach right now? The one that motivates you to try to one up me in the logic realm and call me a d-bag? Yeah...that's not in your tummy boss, that's in your special spot :)
Teeeeeny tiny, manhoodin' man, come to ac-cept, your short-come-ings! It'll help to seek out a friend, preferably not female because #youdon'thavethewin
Toodles 'champ. |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
603
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:00:00 -
[434] - Quote
I'm neither negative, nor hostile. I'm rather...passively...aggressive...but, in a nice way. Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Miichael Epic
The Neutral Zone
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:01:00 -
[435] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:I'm neither negative, nor hostile. I'm rather...passively... aggressive...but, in a nice way.
#likeaboss lol... |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
207
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:49:00 -
[436] - Quote
Good Posting wrote:Turelus wrote: "SOMEONE SAID BOOBS IN THE PUBLIC CHAT I AM OFFENDED BAN THEM!"
This happens in EVE too. A friend of mine got insta banned a few days for posting stuff in local. I understand that the others guys (test alliance in this case) reported him because they wanted him banned, but the gms should respond to those reports with a big middlefinger to the "offended guy".
There is a wee bit of a difference between saying BOOBS in a public chat and some the the mind breaking soul scarring stuff I have seen posted in local chat. I personally am fine with 99% of the stuff that gets dropped in local, but some....ugh..
That being said, there is still some section of the EULA regarding posting disturbing pictures in public chat. It's rarely enforced but if it gets reported the GM's do have an good reason to smack someone for it. |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
913
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 16:54:00 -
[437] - Quote
Good Posting wrote:Turelus wrote: "SOMEONE SAID BOOBS IN THE PUBLIC CHAT I AM OFFENDED BAN THEM!"
This happens in EVE too. A friend of mine got insta banned a few days for posting stuff in local. I understand that the others guys (test alliance in this case) reported him because they wanted him banned, but the gms should respond to those reports with a big middlefinger to the "offended guy". Well saying boobs is not going to get you banned, linking pictures of them is. I am in full support of GM's enforcing rules on ****/racism/harassment. There are places where linking or saying material is appropriate and that's when you know your intended audience, I will share pictures of boobs with my friends but I keep it out of my corp/alliance/fleet/local chat because I don't know (or in some cases do) my audience.
I always use it as the example that you wouldn't go into a library or work place shouting racist words or showing off ****, EVE public areas should be treated no different just because they're on the internet.
Edit* Apparently the common word for adult material is filtered on these forums. Lieutenant Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
I post on my main... shocking I know! |
Good Posting
Posting with my Mind
115
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:10:00 -
[438] - Quote
Well it was a picture of a naked woman. Nothing weird or disgusting. I understand that one shouldn't post stuff like that but damn the ban was so quick. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NBrio plugging holes
263
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:22:00 -
[439] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Well I'd suppose it's because both people playing mario kart are actively trying to play a game that requires both of them to race against one another... Blatantly false. Nothing in Mario kart forces the players to compete if they are happy with just beating the computer.
New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á |
Doireen Kaundur
Riftmage
46
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:27:00 -
[440] - Quote
I think a psychological profile of the eve playerbase would bring up some answers to the OP's questions.
Hostile environments are made by hostile people. |
|
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
208
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 17:37:00 -
[441] - Quote
Doireen Kaundur wrote:I think a psychological profile of the eve playerbase would bring up some answers to the OP's questions.
Hostile environments are made by hostile people.
I think a psych profile of EVE's persistent victims would be more interesting.
The people playing the game for PvP are likely all sorts of stable and unstable, covering a wide spectrum from "Ganks miners to provokes tears" to "Ganks nullsec carebears to fulfill a harassment merc contract" Too damn wide to try and make any sort of applicable profile.
The people who continually get ganked and do nothing but whine and cry about it would present a much more narrow, interesting and applicable profile of the professional victim. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16809
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:02:00 -
[442] - Quote
Doireen Kaundur wrote:I think a psychological profile of the eve playerbase would bring up some answers to the OP's questions.
Hostile environments are made by hostile people. So the creators of Eve are hostile?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1397
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:04:00 -
[443] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Doireen Kaundur wrote:I think a psychological profile of the eve playerbase would bring up some answers to the OP's questions.
Hostile environments are made by hostile people. So the creators of Eve are hostile?
GIVE ME BACK MY TEA COZYS MAG'S!!!!!!!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16810
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:09:00 -
[444] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Mag's wrote:Doireen Kaundur wrote:I think a psychological profile of the eve playerbase would bring up some answers to the OP's questions.
Hostile environments are made by hostile people. So the creators of Eve are hostile? GIVE ME BACK MY TEA COZYS MAG'S!!!!!!! I Ebayed the VCR, but fell in love with your collection of Tea Cosies.
YOU'RE NOT HAVIN UM BACK EVAAAAA!!!
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1404
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:14:00 -
[445] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Mag's wrote:Doireen Kaundur wrote:I think a psychological profile of the eve playerbase would bring up some answers to the OP's questions.
Hostile environments are made by hostile people. So the creators of Eve are hostile? GIVE ME BACK MY TEA COZYS MAG'S!!!!!!! I Ebayed the VCR, but fell in love with your collection of Tea Cosies. YOU'RE NOT HAVIN UM BACK EVAAAAA!!!
I am ******* unsubbing my account!!! You're a mean MEAN person. I don't have to take this!!!! It's no wonder everyone in this game is an *******!!! Nothing but psychopaths and sociopaths and evil ne'er-do-wells. I'll bet you kill puppies too don't you? DON'T YOUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!? I'm going to play a game with a nurturing, kind, benevolent community. Not this dog's breakfast suckfest!!!!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16810
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:15:00 -
[446] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Mag's wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Mag's wrote:Doireen Kaundur wrote:I think a psychological profile of the eve playerbase would bring up some answers to the OP's questions.
Hostile environments are made by hostile people. So the creators of Eve are hostile? GIVE ME BACK MY TEA COZYS MAG'S!!!!!!! I Ebayed the VCR, but fell in love with your collection of Tea Cosies. YOU'RE NOT HAVIN UM BACK EVAAAAA!!! I am ******* unsubbing my account!!! You're a mean MEAN person. I don't have to take this!!!! It's no wonder everyone in this game is an *******!!! Nothing but psychopaths and sociopaths and evil ne'er-do-wells. I'll bet you kill puppies too don't you? DON'T YOUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!? I'm going to play a game with a nurturing, kind, benevolent community. Not this dog's breakfast suckfest!!!! I like the one with the blue flowers best. Just thought I'd let you know.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:27:00 -
[447] - Quote
You guys are really negative.
Apparently people aren't allowed to have and voice opinions if they're different than yours. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
1022
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:29:00 -
[448] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums.
they all suck at the game and this is the place to unleash their anger... check out my YouTube channel-áand Tumblr blog |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
209
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:32:00 -
[449] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You guys are really negative.
Apparently people aren't allowed to have and voice opinions if they're different than yours.
A bunch of terribly mean, negative people are sitting around joking about Ebay and tea cozies without flaming or being assholes. Sooo negative.
Then in walks a wannabe moral Templar who uninvited, accuses everyone of being negative cause his own opinions are at odds from everyone else and he keeps calling everyone else scum on that basis.
Sure...w/e. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1407
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:36:00 -
[450] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Mag's wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:GIVE ME BACK MY TEA COZYS MAG'S!!!!!!!
I Ebayed the VCR, but fell in love with your collection of Tea Cosies. YOU'RE NOT HAVIN UM BACK EVAAAAA!!! I am ******* unsubbing my account!!! You're a mean MEAN person. I don't have to take this!!!! It's no wonder everyone in this game is an *******!!! Nothing but psychopaths and sociopaths and evil ne'er-do-wells. I'll bet you kill puppies too don't you? DON'T YOUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!? I'm going to play a game with a nurturing, kind, benevolent community. Not this dog's breakfast suckfest!!!! I like the one with the blue flowers best. Just thought I'd let you know.
TEARS MAG'S? Is that all this is to you?! You psychopath!!!!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Pix Severus
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
388
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 18:50:00 -
[451] - Quote
This forum doesn't seem any worse than most of the other forums I go to. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:10:00 -
[452] - Quote
Qweasdy wrote:.I know exactly what would happen;
"Edit malfunction would suck it up and continue on and work his way back or he would stop playing entirely. That's important, the fact that he can choose to stop playing at any point, he can "opt out". THAT's why there are no consequences that matter. And as Remiel said above if there are no consequences that matter to an action how can it possibly be morally reprehensible?
I disagree. I think he would rant, rave and cry. Nor would I blame him for doing so, except for the fact that he balantly claims that losing everything he has ingame to theft, would not affect him in the least. Thats just a lie. So the hypocrisy of it would be amusing to me.
Its a perfectly human emotional response to loss. For the overwhelming majority of people, the reaction will follow the Kubler-Ross model of denial, anger, bargaining, depression and-áacceptance (not necessarily in that order.)
Its inane to claim that losing everything you have ingame, has no consequences. Ofc it has the obvious and immediate consequence that now you no longer have everything you have played to accumalate.
On the issue of moral reprehension, stealing is stealing. Up to every individual and their own conscience how they react and think of that. Generally speaking, however is frowned upon. Personally, I agree completely that stealing is fine in EVE, but that doesnt change that it is morally reprehensible overall on a human level.
Mag's wrote:Just a quick question on your stance here. Would you say that for it to qualify as stealing, you would need to show ownership of said item first? Technically, none of us own anything in EVE. CCP does. Furthermore in terms of IRL legality, the status of virtual assets is yet unclear and undecided. Again, to be technical, no, proof of ownership is not required to report a theft, or for a theft to occur. Its not relevant who the property belongs to, as long as it isn taken by someone to whom it does NOT belong to. See the distinction? This vaguery is generally reconciled in law as "finders keepers", after some arbitrary time has elapsed during which nobody has claimed and proven ownership of it. Its far more complicated than that, but that is the general premise and precedent.
Jenn aSide wrote:The above reaction is the adult reaction, the reaction one should have in a video game based on the concept of conflict (which EVE is).. Those of you who would react to that event as if the other player was some how "wrong" are in my opinion the folks most likely to be "morally reprehensible" people in real life.
That would be, and is, my reaction as well. I agree its also the "adult" way to deal with it, though generally I frown pretty severly on the "maturity" card being played, as it indicates a bias and preconception that ones own conduct is "adult", though every adult is infact legally, biologically and to most extents psychologically to act as they wish, as an "adult" and are held accountanle as such, rather than as a child (whom is not physically, psychologically or socially able to fulfill those criteria.)
I agree its "adult", in the sense that the individuak recognises and axknowledges that throwing a temper tantrum over it will gain them nothing. Why? Because its their own fault and responsibility. A child is not yet capable of grasping that, nor is held accountable for their actions fully, for obvious reasons.
NOW that that is all out of the way, two important assumptions to clear up: -First of all, all morality is subjective. Thereby, a player or person who is consistently what is termed as "evil" (colloquially, and however any one individual interprets that) is infact moral. Just as much as player or person who is consistently "good" (previous disclaimer). What is important, is the consistency of behavior with that individuals internal morality. An amoral player/person, is one who does not stick to a consistent observance and enactment of the values they personally hold as "moral". This is a fine distinction, lateral, but it is an important one. -I dont know about DE, but I am not arguing that a person who behaves ingame in ways considered "bad" by some other players, is de facto or automatically as "bad" IRL. I know that for reasons I will demonstrate personally shortly. I do however argue that there is an interesting (and extremely important) schism and (in loose terms) scitzophrenic approach bwtween peoples behavior IRL, face to face, and behavior through this new medium that is the internet.
--> |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:12:00 -
[453] - Quote
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. Almost 20 pages... Confirming this game needs a new word - EVEtard This new word need a definition and nomination for prime candidates. But first, 20 pages MUST be reached... prove OP wrong EVEtards, you know you can!
Just wanted to thank GD for reaching the 20 page milestone - keep up the good work, 30 pages isn't far away!
Not empty posting at all... |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:22:00 -
[454] - Quote
There's no reason to get mad when you die, unless it's mad at yourself (for whatever reason).
After dying, without getting mad, you can still take solace that even though you just lost a bit of your time invested, maybe due to your own mistakes or for taking an unnecessary risk, that you're still not the type of person who needs to get his own enjoyment at the expense of others, like that person just did to you.
That's the benefit of being a good person. You get to think you're better than people who choose to be evil. With just cause.
You wouldn't want to hang out with a guy who breaks all of your **** every time he comes to your house. So since that person chooses to break your stuff in game, you're allowed to make the decision to not want to choose to be his friend/interact with him/ trust him.
You saying I shouldn't be allowed to think less of you for treating others like garbage is basically you saying you don't wish to be held accountable for your actions.
Which is a very immature mentality to possess. |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:36:00 -
[455] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I'll try and do like you say. Don't take it personally, it's just a game. Also mentally visualise whoever you are speaking to as an impotent naked "small person" furiously keyboard mashing and covering their monitor with saliva. Mental imagery ftw! OH NO, now I have a stiffy...
|
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2805
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:39:00 -
[456] - Quote
I'm only negative when people say really stupid things like this;
Zander Kumamato wrote:The thing that gets my rocks off is those that think the moral compass is separated when you're playing and when you're not for your actions against someone else. "It's just a game man, That allows me to be a jerk"
Oh god. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4879
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 19:41:00 -
[457] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:There's no reason to get mad when you die, unless it's mad at yourself (for whatever reason).
After dying, without getting mad, you can still take solace that even though you just lost a bit of your time invested, maybe due to your own mistakes or for taking an unnecessary risk, that you're still not the type of person who needs to get his own enjoyment at the expense of others, like that person just did to you.
That's the benefit of being a good person. You get to think you're better than people who choose to be evil. With just cause.
You're demonstrating a psychological need to view yourself as a good person by judging yourself superior to others....in a video game. You don't seem to understand that other (and i have to say this: more rational) people don't really need this like you do, and the fact that you do need this demonstrates some personal problems that go far beyond the scope of any video game.
It's kind of like the PVPing kill mail ***** who thinks their killboard full of solo kills means something about them in real life, when in reality all it means that "wow, yo , you click buttons gooder than a mofo in this here spaceship game" and nothing else.
How good or bad you are depends on what you do in real life, not in EVE.
Quote: You wouldn't want to hang out with a guy who breaks all of your **** every time he comes to your house. So since that person chooses to break your stuff in game, you're allowed to make the decision to not want to choose to be his friend/interact with him/ trust him.
1st thing. The underlined parts are what you seem to be missing. If your house has a sign on the front saying "please come in and break all my ****", you can't complain about him doing it.
EVE ONLINE is ancient Icelandic for "please come on line so we can blob you and break all your ****" .
2nd thing. No one is asking you to be friends with anyone or trust anyone. You are entitled to your opinion about anything. You are simply wrong in equating in game actions (in a game MADE for skullduggery) with out of game personal qualities.
(read this next part carefully)
Every year CCP has fanfest for fans of one of the most low down dirty rotten games in existence. Hundreds of them converge on a convention center and talk to each other, listen to presentations and wish that some of the attendees would train "personal hygiene" to at least 3, preferably 4 before attending lol.
Iceland doesn't see any increase in crime rates because of EVE Fanfest. If EVE players (notorious in the gaming world for being asshats) were the kind of people you say their actions indicate, the Icelandic government would have banned fanfest and exiled CCP years ago after Reykjav+¡k got burned down during the 1st Fanfest.
What you believe about people is simply wrong, and Fanfest is actual proof.
Quote: You saying I shouldn't be allowed to think less of you for treating others like garbage is basically you saying you don't wish to be held accountable for your actions.
Which is a very immature mentality to possess.
No one is telling you how to think. We're telling you what you think is wrong and demonstrates you are actually a deeply flawed and probably bad person, because only a bad person would believe that their video game actions make them superior to anyone else.
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1423
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:24:00 -
[458] - Quote
Did everyone just miss the part where I said I was unsubbing?
Why does no one want my stuff? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16814
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:24:00 -
[459] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Mag's wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Mag's wrote:I Ebayed the VCR, but fell in love with your collection of Tea Cosies. YOU'RE NOT HAVIN UM BACK EVAAAAA!!! I am ******* unsubbing my account!!! You're a mean MEAN person. I don't have to take this!!!! It's no wonder everyone in this game is an *******!!! Nothing but psychopaths and sociopaths and evil ne'er-do-wells. I'll bet you kill puppies too don't you? DON'T YOUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!? I'm going to play a game with a nurturing, kind, benevolent community. Not this dog's breakfast suckfest!!!! I like the one with the blue flowers best. Just thought I'd let you know. TEARS MAG'S? Is that all this is to you?! You psychopath!!!! I wear the Puppy one, whilst shiptoasting and the Kitten one whilst.... Did I tell you I love them?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16814
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:25:00 -
[460] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Did everyone just miss the part where I said I was unsubbing? Why does no one want my stuff? I have your stuff, but will gladly take moar.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19621
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:27:00 -
[461] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Did everyone just miss the part where I said I was unsubbing? Why does no one want my stuff? Already stole it, like the psycho I am. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16814
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:28:00 -
[462] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Did everyone just miss the part where I said I was unsubbing? Why does no one want my stuff? Already stole it, like the psycho I am. Ahh, but you missed out on the wonderful Tea cosy set.
Did I tell you it's a collection?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Ralen Zateki
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
61
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:31:00 -
[463] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Did everyone just miss the part where I said I was unsubbing? Why does no one want my stuff?
Uhhhh... can I haz all your stuff?
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
58
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:35:00 -
[464] - Quote
Ralen Zateki wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Did everyone just miss the part where I said I was unsubbing? Why does no one want my stuff? Uhhhh... can I haz all your stuff?
You actually believed that...
Can I interest you in some lunar property? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:35:00 -
[465] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:There's no reason to get mad when you die, unless it's mad at yourself (for whatever reason).
After dying, without getting mad, you can still take solace that even though you just lost a bit of your time invested, maybe due to your own mistakes or for taking an unnecessary risk, that you're still not the type of person who needs to get his own enjoyment at the expense of others, like that person just did to you.
That's the benefit of being a good person. You get to think you're better than people who choose to be evil. With just cause.
You're demonstrating a psychological need to view yourself as a good person by judging yourself superior to others....in a video game. You don't seem to understand that other (and i have to say this: more rational) people don't really need this like you do, and the fact that you do need this demonstrates some personal problems that go far beyond the scope of any video game. It's kind of like the PVPing kill mail ***** who thinks their killboard full of solo kills means something about them in real life, when in reality all it means that "wow, yo , you click buttons gooder than a mofo in this here spaceship game" and nothing else. How good or bad you are depends on what you do in real life, not in EVE. Quote: You wouldn't want to hang out with a guy who breaks all of your **** every time he comes to your house. So since that person chooses to break your stuff in game, you're allowed to make the decision to not want to choose to be his friend/interact with him/ trust him.
1st thing. The underlined parts are what you seem to be missing. If your house has a sign on the front saying "please come in and break all my ****", you can't complain about him doing it. EVE ONLINE is ancient Icelandic for "please come on line so we can blob you and break all your ****" . 2nd thing. No one is asking you to be friends with anyone or trust anyone. You are entitled to your opinion about anything. You are simply wrong in equating in game actions (in a game MADE for skullduggery) with out of game personal qualities. (read this next part carefully) Every year CCP has fanfest for fans of one of the most low down dirty rotten games in existence. Hundreds of them converge on a convention center and talk to each other, listen to presentations and wish that some of the attendees would train "personal hygiene" to at least 3, preferably 4 before attending lol. Iceland doesn't see any increase in crime rates because of EVE Fanfest. If EVE players (notorious in the gaming world for being asshats) were the kind of people you say their actions indicate, the Icelandic government would have banned fanfest and exiled CCP years ago after Reykjav+¡k got burned down during the 1st Fanfest. What you believe about people is simply wrong, and Fanfest is actual proof. Quote: You saying I shouldn't be allowed to think less of you for treating others like garbage is basically you saying you don't wish to be held accountable for your actions.
Which is a very immature mentality to possess.
No one is telling you how to think. We're telling you what you think is wrong and demonstrates you are actually a deeply flawed and probably bad person, because only a bad person would believe that their video game actions make them superior to anyone else.
Well, I am a better person, superior to others in respects to morality. You and people like you wish to cause suffering in others for your personal enjoyment. I find the act of choosing to make someone unhappy abhorrent. I'm telling you that your view on life is wrong because it saddens me to see you so disconnected from reality. You'll literally try and find any excuse you can think of to mask the fact that you, yourself, are choosing to hurt other people. To you, wanting to upset others and make them sad is nothing other than a game to you.
Being "good" at pvping in EvE is less important than being a good person. I'd say an incredibly small percentage, less than .01% of our society, cares whether or not someone is good at blowing up pretend spaceships. But on the other hand, I would bet my life that more people in our society value being a good, nice person as a desireable trait to have in those they wish to associate. Way more than people who care about one's ability to make others mad, which is an immature quality.
When you kill someone in EVE in high security space, you are even flagged as a criminal. That means even though the game imposes no real punishment, it's still being defined by the game as a morally reprehensible act. Even the game is telling you and everyone around you that you are a criminal, someone who should not be trusted.
Now, you demonstrate already by being a criminal, taking things from others and trying to ruin their day, that you are capable of being a criminal. That sometimes, you think it's OK to hurt others. That there are scenarios in your life where you will choose to perform actions that could have direct, harmful effects on other human beings pscyhological frame of mind. That's you choosing, within a game or not within a game, that you are capable of choosing to justify your actions of hurting others.
Do you and people like you act this way all the time? No, but I will continue to never trust you fully, knowing that at any moment you could create some justification in your mind that I am someone worthy of being made unhappy by you, for your personal enjoyment.
You can spit on me all you want. All it does is reinforce my belief that you're unstable and petty. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:37:00 -
[466] - Quote
It's OK.
I understand.
You're immature. You'll probably realize your mistakes when you get older.
Just like I have to wait for my skills to train in EVE, you have to wait for your maturity to train in real life.
Good luck! |
Ralen Zateki
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:39:00 -
[467] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ralen Zateki wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Did everyone just miss the part where I said I was unsubbing? Why does no one want my stuff? Uhhhh... can I haz all your stuff? You actually believed that... Can I interest you in some lunar property?
Can I haz ur stuff too? |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:40:00 -
[468] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Stuff
You take all this very seriously, don't you? Chill. EVE = Game |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16816
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:40:00 -
[469] - Quote
DE is really going for it guys, we should all react and post vile things and stuff. I even have my tea cosy on, but that does mean spitting is out.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:49:00 -
[470] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Stuff
You take all this very seriously, don't you? Chill. EVE = Game
I'm just enjoying the opportunity to discuss opinions. |
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4884
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:53:00 -
[471] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:There's no reason to get mad when you die, unless it's mad at yourself (for whatever reason).
After dying, without getting mad, you can still take solace that even though you just lost a bit of your time invested, maybe due to your own mistakes or for taking an unnecessary risk, that you're still not the type of person who needs to get his own enjoyment at the expense of others, like that person just did to you.
That's the benefit of being a good person. You get to think you're better than people who choose to be evil. With just cause.
You're demonstrating a psychological need to view yourself as a good person by judging yourself superior to others....in a video game. You don't seem to understand that other (and i have to say this: more rational) people don't really need this like you do, and the fact that you do need this demonstrates some personal problems that go far beyond the scope of any video game. It's kind of like the PVPing kill mail ***** who thinks their killboard full of solo kills means something about them in real life, when in reality all it means that "wow, yo , you click buttons gooder than a mofo in this here spaceship game" and nothing else. How good or bad you are depends on what you do in real life, not in EVE. Quote: You wouldn't want to hang out with a guy who breaks all of your **** every time he comes to your house. So since that person chooses to break your stuff in game, you're allowed to make the decision to not want to choose to be his friend/interact with him/ trust him.
1st thing. The underlined parts are what you seem to be missing. If your house has a sign on the front saying "please come in and break all my ****", you can't complain about him doing it. EVE ONLINE is ancient Icelandic for "please come on line so we can blob you and break all your ****" . 2nd thing. No one is asking you to be friends with anyone or trust anyone. You are entitled to your opinion about anything. You are simply wrong in equating in game actions (in a game MADE for skullduggery) with out of game personal qualities. (read this next part carefully) Every year CCP has fanfest for fans of one of the most low down dirty rotten games in existence. Hundreds of them converge on a convention center and talk to each other, listen to presentations and wish that some of the attendees would train "personal hygiene" to at least 3, preferably 4 before attending lol. Iceland doesn't see any increase in crime rates because of EVE Fanfest. If EVE players (notorious in the gaming world for being asshats) were the kind of people you say their actions indicate, the Icelandic government would have banned fanfest and exiled CCP years ago after Reykjav+¡k got burned down during the 1st Fanfest. What you believe about people is simply wrong, and Fanfest is actual proof. Quote: You saying I shouldn't be allowed to think less of you for treating others like garbage is basically you saying you don't wish to be held accountable for your actions.
Which is a very immature mentality to possess.
No one is telling you how to think. We're telling you what you think is wrong and demonstrates you are actually a deeply flawed and probably bad person, because only a bad person would believe that their video game actions make them superior to anyone else. Well, I am a better person, superior to others in respects to morality. You and people like you wish to cause suffering in others for your personal enjoyment. I find the act of choosing to make someone unhappy abhorrent. I'm telling you that your view on life is wrong because it saddens me to see you so disconnected from reality. You'll literally try and find any excuse you can think of to mask the fact that you, yourself, are choosing to hurt other people. To you, wanting to upset others and make them sad is nothing other than a game to you. Being "good" at pvping in EvE is less important than being a good person. I'd say an incredibly small percentage, less than .01% of our society, cares whether or not someone is good at blowing up pretend spaceships. But on the other hand, I would bet my life that more people in our society value being a good, nice person as a desireable trait to have in those they wish to associate. Way more than people who care about one's ability to make others mad, which is an immature quality. When you kill someone in EVE in high security space, you are even flagged as a criminal. That means even though the game imposes no real punishment, it's still being defined by the game as a morally reprehensible act. Even the game is telling you and everyone around you that you are a criminal, someone who should not be trusted. Now, you demonstrate already by being a criminal, taking things from others and trying to ruin their day, that you are capable of being a criminal. That sometimes, you think it's OK to hurt others. That there are scenarios in your life where you will choose to perform actions that could have direct, harmful effects on other human beings pscyhological frame of mind. That's you choosing, within a game or not within a game, that you are capable of choosing to justify your actions of hurting others. Do you and people like you act this way all the time? No, but I will continue to never trust you fully, knowing that at any moment you could create some justification in your mind that I am someone worthy of being made unhappy by you, for your personal enjoyment. You can spit on me all you want. All it does is reinforce my belief that you're unstable and petty.
You need help dude.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
36
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 20:59:00 -
[472] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: You need help dude.
I cannot know you. I can only know you as the person you represent yourself to be.
What you've shown me:
You will create scenarios in your mind where it's OK to attempt to cause misery in others, or where you'll not take others feelings into consideration when you're attempting to gain enjoyment for yourself.
Because of that, everything you say could be you potentially "role playing", meaning that at any point, demonstrated already by you, you could be attempting to do so right now.
With that, nothing you say, can I ever believe as being legitimate.
So your illegitimate opinion means nothing to me.
My opinion? You need help. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
58
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:10:00 -
[473] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:You need help dude.
Divine Entervention wrote:You need help.
I need help.
Send me ISK please so I can get the help that I need, since both of you are so concerned with the needings of helpings. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4884
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 22:50:00 -
[474] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: You need help dude.
I cannot know you. I can only know you as the person you represent yourself to be. What you've shown me: You will create scenarios in your mind where it's OK to attempt to cause misery in others, or where you'll not take others feelings into consideration when you're attempting to gain enjoyment for yourself. Because of that, everything you say could be you potentially "role playing", meaning that at any point, demonstrated already by you, you could be attempting to do so right now. With that, nothing you say, can I ever believe as being legitimate. So your illegitimate opinion means nothing to me. My opinion? You need help.
What always amazes me is that people like you (and they are some) talk out of one side of you mouths about mkorality and lie out of the other.
Or is lying magically not lying when you do it?
I've explained to you that I am a pve player. I run missions, incursions, anomalies and do exploration for my fun in EVE. Most of my"pvp" now adays is avoiding people who would kill me while I pve. I've never ganked or scammed (not that there is anything wrong with those activities, this is EVE). The only misery I cause is to alliance mates who come into a system where I'm plexing just to be told by me "yo, I already found the 8/10 in here, but you can have the Blood Raider Base I'm not doing" lol.
And yet you ignore that and post lies. How can you claim moral superiority over anyone if you can't even tell the truth on a video game forum?
I reiterate, you need some help, and I mean that. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1437
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 23:01:00 -
[475] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: You need help dude.
I cannot know you. I can only know you as the person you represent yourself to be. What you've shown me: You will create scenarios in your mind where it's OK to attempt to cause misery in others, or where you'll not take others feelings into consideration when you're attempting to gain enjoyment for yourself.
We're not creating scenarios in our minds. We're creating scenarios in a video game. You really are having a hard time separating these two.
Divine Entervention wrote:Because of that, everything you say could be you potentially "role playing", meaning that at any point, demonstrated already by you, you could be attempting to do so right now.
Here you are again comparing role playing in game to role playing out of game. Honestly, you can't make this **** up.
Divine Entervention wrote:With that, nothing you say, can I ever believe as being legitimate.
So your illegitimate opinion means nothing to me.
My opinion? You need help.
You believe that Game = Real life. That is how you legitimize everything. An opinion is not illegitimate. The only thing that you are making more and more legitimate is the possibility that you are having issues separating reality from make believe. That being the case, then yes, you're going to want to seek treatment for that.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
915
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 23:12:00 -
[476] - Quote
Thread temporarily closed so the cleaning crew has some room to work. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16821
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 16:41:00 -
[477] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:Due to unforeseen circumstances cleaning this thread took longer then expected. For that I apologise. I told you Ezwal, you're not getting my Cosies.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
920
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 17:17:00 -
[478] - Quote
Mag's wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:Due to unforeseen circumstances cleaning this thread took longer then expected. For that I apologise. I told you Ezwal, you're not getting my Cosies. Aaahw......
Now I must hide my negativity and not post about it in a hostile *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal. *Snip* Please refrain from spreading baseless rumors. ISD Ezwal. *Snip* Removed external link to inappropriate content. ISD Ezwal. . . Sigh.... . . *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal.
Oops.... ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1498
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 17:30:00 -
[479] - Quote
This is not me posting about forum moderation.
This is me marveling at the extent to which this thread was shredded. Rightfully so, obviously.
Well done Ezwal.
ED: They're not your cozies Mag's!!!!! Gimme mah cozies!!!! "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16826
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:19:00 -
[480] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:This is not me posting about forum moderation.
ED: They're not your cozies Mag's!!!!! Gimme mah cozies!!!! I'll tell you what, I'll take a pic of me wearing one and mail it you. At least you get to see one again.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
|
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
221
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:26:00 -
[481] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:This is not me posting about forum moderation.
This is me marveling at the extent to which this thread was shredded. Rightfully so, obviously.
Well done Ezwal.
Whoaaa, 18 pages, poof!
And my comparative study of EVE morality using Mario Kart as a medium, all gone :(
I guess it could have been viewed as off topic, \o/ w/e.
On a more on topic note: Free the Tea Cozy! |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1513
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:30:00 -
[482] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:This is not me posting about forum moderation.
This is me marveling at the extent to which this thread was shredded. Rightfully so, obviously.
Well done Ezwal.
Whoaaa, 18 pages, poof! And my comparative study of EVE morality using Mario Kart as a medium, all gone :( I guess it could have been viewed as off topic, \o/ w/e. On a more on topic note: Free the Tea Cozy!
Anhenka's Law: Everything regarding ethics and morality can be examined through the lens of Mario Kart. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1513
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:31:00 -
[483] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:This is not me posting about forum moderation.
ED: They're not your cozies Mag's!!!!! Gimme mah cozies!!!! I'll tell you what, I'll take a pic of me wearing one and mail it you. At least you get to see one again.
You should send that to Ero,
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:41:00 -
[484] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ingame, I will cheat, steal, lie, exploit, manipulate, kill and altogether take advantage of every opportunity I can to primarily earn ISK, and secondarily to cause loss to other players deliberately and intentionally (even of there is no profit in it, but mostly if there is). I understand, appreciate and practice loyalty as well as teamwork when it supports my own interests or is otherwise ofnmotivation to me.
Offline I am a 33yr old (bday today) nursing student with the history of a short military tenure, and dropping out of first legal studies and then psychology. Im glad to have found my "true calling" at last and its the best thing to ever have happened to me aside from my family. It would be, and is, completely unconscionable to me to ever act IRL as I do ingame. Both professionally as a nurse towards my patients and colleagues, as well as otherwise in my private life towards other people. I have a very strict and complex moral system that has taken me years to distinguish and for which I make sacrifices, because it is what I believe is right and its the person I want to be.I dont hold other people to, or expect them, to share my moral views. Those are their own business ans their own prerogative to define. And even if they are at odds with my own, I respect them for what they are, as they spring from the same source as my own do. From personal choice and autonomy. And most importantly, from responsibility
...
Upon introspection, the real reason why I do so, is a mix of sadism and showing that I am better than others.. The vicarious pleasure of extending my reach and negatively affecting another human players existence. Their tears are my joy and giddy pleasure. That is the cherry on the cake, after the original rush of competition and conflict where they try to protect what is theirs against my deliberate action to deprive them of it, or, in my own adrenaline rushed attempt to defend myself in from their attempt to do the same to me.
....
Summa summarum: These are my introspections on my personal moral dichotomy (and dilemma) between behavior as who I really, mundanely, am, in my day to day professional and private life (Im not kidding about any of that) and how I behave in this game. Before anyone starts shouting "SOCIOPATH" , I ask and recommend that you seriously, deeply, question yourself about your own behavior, why you do it, and how you reconcile that difference (if there is any) to your own honest self.
Well, to put it bluntly, it seems that you get high on people-¦s suffering, as demonstrated by your choices of walks of life. Law-related activities are a prime field to witness strangers in disarray, and possibly do them in. The military is pretty self-explanatory.
There are quite a few sadists in the health professions, especially amongst nurses who take care of the elderly. Maybe their sadism is a result of having to wash old people-¦s butts on a daily basis, but I-¦d say the seed of it was in them already.
I personally think people like you have no place in an online game, since games are made to play pretend, and suppose the pursuit of ingame goals, as opposed to RL ones.
There is a huge glaring problem when a certain category of players use an online game as a platform to reap Schadenfreude, and care more about the RL reaction of some absolutely unknown random Joe whom they have had no business of any kind with, than the ingame benefit they get from scamming/ganking/whatevering him. You say you do it for the ISK first, but after a few paragraphs of self-introspection, you write
Salvos Rhoska wrote:What I am REALLY looking for, is a reaction that shows I reached out and touched you
Schadenfreude-oriented gankers are a blight on online videogaming, since they will look for every little flaw or borderline exploit to get an advantage over other players, and this forces devs to plug holes that could have been left open for reasonable and fun-loving players to "exploit". In the same order of idea, CONCORD is there because of gankers. If those players were screened and banned, there would be no need for an all-powerful space police, players would police themselves and have fun doing, some play pretending pirates, some play pretending police, etc... The foundation for a sound gaming community is players who assess that the collection of pixels they interact with is controlled by other fellow gamers, and the common sense that springs from this: don-¦t be a jerk.
Ultima Online was trammelized because of camping gankers. This sharded the sandbox, and forced devs to impose hardcoded limits on PvP. I believe the age of anonymity on the internet will come to an end in the future, once too many schoolgirls have committed suicide because of anonymous trolls trolling them.
All the cop-outs stating that RL and internet activities are de-coupled are just, well, cop-outs. Ethics, in an open sandboxy environment (that is, not Counter-Strike or Battlefield) are context irrelevant.
And, "it-¦s a game". Well, start behaving like it-¦s one, instead of having a hard-on for ingame actions that will purposefully make other players rage IRL.
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1514
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:47:00 -
[485] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ingame, I will cheat, steal, lie, exploit, manipulate, kill and altogether take advantage of every opportunity I can to primarily earn ISK, and secondarily to cause loss to other players deliberately and intentionally (even of there is no profit in it, but mostly if there is). I understand, appreciate and practice loyalty as well as teamwork when it supports my own interests or is otherwise ofnmotivation to me.
Offline I am a 33yr old (bday today) nursing student with the history of a short military tenure, and dropping out of first legal studies and then psychology. Im glad to have found my "true calling" at last and its the best thing to ever have happened to me aside from my family. It would be, and is, completely unconscionable to me to ever act IRL as I do ingame. Both professionally as a nurse towards my patients and colleagues, as well as otherwise in my private life towards other people. I have a very strict and complex moral system that has taken me years to distinguish and for which I make sacrifices, because it is what I believe is right and its the person I want to be.I dont hold other people to, or expect them, to share my moral views. Those are their own business ans their own prerogative to define. And even if they are at odds with my own, I respect them for what they are, as they spring from the same source as my own do. From personal choice and autonomy. And most importantly, from responsibility
...
Upon introspection, the real reason why I do so, is a mix of sadism and showing that I am better than others.. The vicarious pleasure of extending my reach and negatively affecting another human players existence. Their tears are my joy and giddy pleasure. That is the cherry on the cake, after the original rush of competition and conflict where they try to protect what is theirs against my deliberate action to deprive them of it, or, in my own adrenaline rushed attempt to defend myself in from their attempt to do the same to me.
....
Summa summarum: These are my introspections on my personal moral dichotomy (and dilemma) between behavior as who I really, mundanely, am, in my day to day professional and private life (Im not kidding about any of that) and how I behave in this game. Before anyone starts shouting "SOCIOPATH" , I ask and recommend that you seriously, deeply, question yourself about your own behavior, why you do it, and how you reconcile that difference (if there is any) to your own honest self. Well, to put it bluntly, it seems that you get high on people-¦s suffering, as demonstrated by your choices of walks of life. Law-related activities are a prime field to witness strangers in disarray, and possibly do them in. The military is pretty self-explanatory. There are quite a few sadists in the health professions, especially amongst nurses who take care of the elderly. Maybe their sadism is a result of having to wash old people-¦s butts on a daily basis, but I-¦d say the seed of it was in them already. I personally think people like you have no place in an online game, since games are made to play pretend, and suppose the pursuit of ingame goals, as opposed to RL ones. There is a huge glaring problem when a certain category of players use an online game as a platform to reap Schadenfreude, and care more about the RL reaction of some absolutely unknown random Joe whom they have had no business of any kind with, than the ingame benefit they get from scamming/ganking/whatevering him. You say you do it for the ISK first, but after a few paragraphs of self-introspection, you write Salvos Rhoska wrote:What I am REALLY looking for, is a reaction that shows I reached out and touched you Schadenfreude-oriented gankers are a blight on online videogaming, since they will look for every little flaw or borderline exploit to get an advantage over other players, and this forces devs to plug holes that could have been left open for reasonable and fun-loving players to "exploit". In the same order of idea, CONCORD is there because of gankers. If those players were screened and banned, there would be no need for an all-powerful space police, players would police themselves and have fun doing, some play pretending pirates, some play pretending police, etc... The foundation for a sound gaming community is players who assess that the collection of pixels they interact with is controlled by other fellow gamers, and the common sense that springs from this: don-¦t be a jerk. Ultima Online was trammelized because of camping gankers. This sharded the sandbox, and forced devs to impose hardcoded limits on PvP. I believe the age of anonymity on the internet will come to an end in the future, once too many schoolgirls have committed suicide because of anonymous trolls trolling them. All the cop-outs stating that RL and internet activities are de-coupled are just, well, cop-outs. Ethics, in an open sandboxy environment (that is, not Counter-Strike or Battlefield) are context irrelevant. And, "it-¦s a game". Well, start behaving like it-¦s one, instead of having a hard-on for ingame actions that will purposefully make other players rage IRL.
Cue Anhenka's Law. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:50:00 -
[486] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote: Cue Anhenka's Law.
Let me quote myself: Ethics, in an open sandboxy environment (that is, not Counter-Strike or Battlefield) are context irrelevant.
and rephrase: Ethics, in an open sandboxy environment (that is, not Counter-Strike or Battlefield nor Mario Kart) are context irrelevant.
Sorry for being so vague. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1514
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:54:00 -
[487] - Quote
I guess we should consider ourselves lucky to have an expert on ethics and morality to explain this to us.
Can you please tell Mag's why he should give me back my wonderful collection of tea cozies? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16827
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:56:00 -
[488] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:I guess we should consider ourselves lucky to have an expert on ethics and morality to explain this to us.
Can you please tell Mag's why he should give me back my wonderful collection of tea cozies? But as I'm a psychopath, would it make any difference?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
63
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 18:58:00 -
[489] - Quote
@Mandarine: That would mostly depend on you posting a similar and as honest analysis of your own behavior and motivations ingame and out.
Care to do that for comparisons sake and to inform the discussion?
And some corrections to your observations. I enjoy my work as a nurse because I find personal life gratification in helping other people in need of it. This is the case for most health professionals as nurses, since its hardly the pay or the hours or other associated perks (of which there are none really in nursing). Second correction, perhaps due to my dommunicating it poorly, or your misreading, is that ISK is the primary overt motivatiin for many of my actions in EVE. However, ISK is earned doing just about anything, and though having ISK enables various activities, the accumalation of ISK is not my primary reason for playing or my actiins, merely a constant consideratiin as to whether some action is worth doing, as it is I think for just about everyone to one exntent or another.
So, hoping you will take time and introspect a bit a post of your own whixhnis similar to mine. Id be very interested in comparing it to my own. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
1023
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:15:00 -
[490] - Quote
bla bla bla... check out my YouTube channel-áand Tumblr blog |
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:22:00 -
[491] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:bla bla bla... Amusingly ironic sentiment from a guy with a Tumblr blog. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4893
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:24:00 -
[492] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
Well, to put it bluntly, it seems that you get high on people-¦s suffering, as demonstrated by your choices of walks of life. Law-related activities are a prime field to witness strangers in disarray, and possibly do them in. The military is pretty self-explanatory.
There are quite a few sadists in the health professions, especially amongst nurses who take care of the elderly. Maybe their sadism is a result of having to wash old people-¦s butts on a daily basis, but I-¦d say the seed of it was in them already.
I personally think people like you have no place in an online game, since games are made to play pretend, and suppose the pursuit of ingame goals, as opposed to RL ones.
There is a huge glaring problem when a certain category of players use an online game as a platform to reap Schadenfreude, and care more about the RL reaction of some absolutely unknown random Joe whom they have had no business of any kind with, than the ingame benefit they get from scamming/ganking/whatevering him. You say you do it for the ISK first, but after a few paragraphs of self-introspection, you write
The op asks "why are many people on these forums so negative". The above quoted outrageous BS is the best answer antyone could give. It not only shows it's author egotistically claiming superiority of others involved in the same gaming activity he is, it actually disparages millions of real life Law, Law Enforcement, Military and Healthcare worker, almost all of whom most likely contribute way more to the actual well being humanity way more than the author ever could.
It's may well be an example of bad people not being able to see themselves as bad but rather imagining that it's others who are the problem. You simply have to be a real, honest to God bad person to write something like the above quoted BS.
Seems to me to be a massive case of projection ie the best psychological defense a truly rotten person has is to ima other people rotten.
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:27:00 -
[493] - Quote
My career in EvE-O has been terrible. I-¦ve been playing since 2003 (this is an alt, of course), and always wanted to be a space vigilante. Surprise surprise, it-¦s the only profession in EvE that is absolutely pointless: The "lawful" or rather, play-pretending pirates are very rare, and they are not the ones being jerks in New Eden. Gankers and scammers cannot be curbed, because of multiple accounts: you can-¦t hurt their wallet.
Also, being a lone vigilante doesn-¦t work in a non-twitch based multiplayer game where connections are everything. Gankers praise themselves on their great community, which is actually quite tight-knit. There is hardly a vigilante one, since you don-¦t make ISK with the T2 fitted wrecks of gatecampers, assuming you catch them, thanks to their scouting alts in the nearby systems.
I usually contract back the stuff I find on wrecks, if the pilot is not part of some awesome grrrmdark shoot everything flashy is cool corp/alliance. I try to be nice to people who are playing a game to have a good time, and who play a game to play with other gamers, instead of playing against them.
I-¦d do more idiotic goody two-shoes stuff in New Eden, but everyone is paranoid, and rightly so. I never understood why Lofty29 wasn-¦t IP permabanned when he pulled his oh-so-hilarious let-¦s team for a mission ganks. This is meta of the dirtiest kind, taking advantage of the unsuspecting nature of some gamers, who still believed that online games were made to have fun together, instead of at one another-¦s expense, in some kind of ******** zero-sum game in which Joe can only have fun if Jack has negative one, i.e. is raging IRL.
IRL, amongst other stuff, I go out of my way to help people, like carrying stuff in stairs or through doors, I give money to beggars (even if it -¦s kinda pointless) , I try to nurture kind thoughts to strangers and dissolve feelings of animosity.
I-¦m very bitter about Schadenfreude in online gaming, because online games are a haven for people who want some form of escape from the often violent and aggressive RL interactions. It is no place to enact what you wish you could IRL, but don-¦t , because of the law.
Also, online gamers are mild autists, somehow. Online games should be a way to learn how to be sensible and kind to your fellow human, and not revel in his disarray.
Which doesn-¦t mean that all sandboxy online games should be like Animal Crossing. There-¦s a cristal-clear difference between a roleplaying pirate who will create excellent fun for its victims, wanting to share shared enjoyment with them through creating ingame situations, and the scammer/ganker that treasures its hate mail as the sole strong huamn interaction he-¦s able to experience.
I don-¦t think I-¦m misreading when I quote you : "What I am REALLY looking for, is a reaction that shows I reaxhed out and touched you." And it makes sense, since many gankers/scammers are really after Schadenfreude, they say it themselves. The ISK is just a prextext,
However, the pursuit of ISK (which is a valid ingame goal), might be as appealing to you as the reaction you want to witness in your ingame victims.
I hope your calling as a nurse stems from a will of helping others, and not secretly rejoicing in their pain. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1523
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:31:00 -
[494] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Mandarine wrote:
Well, to put it bluntly, it seems that you get high on people-¦s suffering, as demonstrated by your choices of walks of life. Law-related activities are a prime field to witness strangers in disarray, and possibly do them in. The military is pretty self-explanatory.
There are quite a few sadists in the health professions, especially amongst nurses who take care of the elderly. Maybe their sadism is a result of having to wash old people-¦s butts on a daily basis, but I-¦d say the seed of it was in them already.
I personally think people like you have no place in an online game, since games are made to play pretend, and suppose the pursuit of ingame goals, as opposed to RL ones.
There is a huge glaring problem when a certain category of players use an online game as a platform to reap Schadenfreude, and care more about the RL reaction of some absolutely unknown random Joe whom they have had no business of any kind with, than the ingame benefit they get from scamming/ganking/whatevering him. You say you do it for the ISK first, but after a few paragraphs of self-introspection, you write
The op asks "why are many people on these forums so negative". The above quoted outrageous BS is the best answer antyone could give. It not only shows it's author egotistically claiming superiority of others involved in the same gaming activity he is, it actually disparages millions of real life Law, Law Enforcement, Military and Healthcare worker, almost all of whom most likely contribute way more to the actual well being humanity way more than the author ever could. It's may well be an example of bad people not being able to see themselves as bad but rather imagining that it's others who are the problem. You simply have to be a real, honest to God bad person to write something like the above quoted BS. Seems to me to be a massive case of projection ie the best psychological defense a truly rotten person has is to ima other people rotten.
To be fair, bad people don't see themselves as bad. I doubt ****** (censorship is bad - Chancellor of Germany in the 30s and 40s) ever stopped and thought, "Would it be bad if I really kill all these people?"
Dahmer likely didn't spend a lot of time considering the ethics of his actions.
Maybe we're all bad people. We just defend out badness in the same way as the author you are quoting. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:36:00 -
[495] - Quote
@Mandarine: Well, Im somewhat disappointed by your reply.
I don't see much introspection or cutting honesty there, nor analysis of your own moral conduct as compared to in and out of game.. Mostly its a rant about how EVE doesn't work the way you want it to, or doesn't more directly support the kind of play you want, as you perceive the sandbox.
But thanks for taking the time anyways.
One more question though, what do you do professionally? |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:42:00 -
[496] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: It's may well be an example of bad people not being able to see themselves as bad but rather imagining that it's others who are the problem. You simply have to be a real, honest to God bad person to write something like the above quoted BS.
Seems to me to be a massive case of projection ie the best psychological defense a truly rotten person has is to ima other people rotten.
What can I say Mrs Genocide, it-¦s so cool, it-¦s so good to be bad!
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4894
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:43:00 -
[497] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:My career in EvE-O has been terrible. I-¦ve been playing since 2003 (this is an alt, of course), and always wanted to be a space vigilante. Surprise surprise, it-¦s the only profession in EvE that is absolutely pointless: The "lawful" or rather, play-pretending pirates are very rare, and they are not the ones being jerks in New Eden. Gankers and scammers cannot be curbed, because of multiple accounts: you can-¦t hurt their wallet.
Also, being a lone vigilante doesn-¦t work in a non-twitch based multiplayer game where connections are everything. Gankers praise themselves on their great community, which is actually quite tight-knit. There is hardly a vigilante one, since you don-¦t make ISK with the T2 fitted wrecks of gatecampers, assuming you catch them, thanks to their scouting alts in the nearby systems.
I usually contract back the stuff I find on wrecks, if the pilot is not part of some awesome grrrmdark shoot everything flashy is cool corp/alliance. I try to be nice to people who are playing a game to have a good time, and who play a game to play with other gamers, instead of playing against them.
I-¦d do more idiotic goody two-shoes stuff in New Eden, but everyone is paranoid, and rightly so. I never understood why Lofty29 wasn-¦t IP permabanned when he pulled his oh-so-hilarious let-¦s team for a mission ganks. This is meta of the dirtiest kind, taking advantage of the unsuspecting nature of some gamers, who still believed that online games were made to have fun together, instead of at one another-¦s expense, in some kind of ******** zero-sum game in which Joe can only have fun if Jack has negative one, i.e. is raging IRL.
IRL, amongst other stuff, I go out of my way to help people, like carrying stuff in stairs or through doors, I give money to beggars (even if it -¦s kinda pointless) , I try to nurture kind thoughts to strangers and dissolve feelings of animosity.
I-¦m very bitter about Schadenfreude in online gaming, because online games are a haven for people who want some form of escape from the often violent and aggressive RL interactions. It is no place to enact what you wish you could IRL, but don-¦t , because of the law.
Also, online gamers are mild autists, somehow. Online games should be a way to learn how to be sensible and kind to your fellow human, and not revel in his disarray.
Which doesn-¦t mean that all sandboxy online games should be like Animal Crossing. There-¦s a cristal-clear difference between a roleplaying pirate who will create excellent fun for its victims, wanting to share shared enjoyment with them through creating ingame situations, and the scammer/ganker that treasures its hate mail as the sole strong huamn interaction he-¦s able to experience.
I don-¦t think I-¦m misreading when I quote you : "What I am REALLY looking for, is a reaction that shows I reaxhed out and touched you." And it makes sense, since many gankers/scammers are really after Schadenfreude, they say it themselves. The ISK is just a prextext,
However, the pursuit of ISK (which is a valid ingame goal), might be as appealing to you as the reaction you want to witness in your ingame victims.
I hope your calling as a nurse stems from a will of helping others, and not secretly rejoicing in their pain.
And this post is what happens when you have a personality to lends itself to judging others based on one's own narrow moral ideas. The mission ganker story is a prime example: that kind of game play is an excellent example of one player outsmarting another, which is what GAMES (especially games that do not in any way restrain competition, such as EVE) are generally all about.
It leads folks like this to believe the "they are doing that in game because they can't get away with it in real life" fallacy that is unsupported by any sound reasoning.
To me what it boils down to is players like the above quoted author (who seem to have an over-developed "cooperation" style mind set) try to find ways to reconcile their beliefs with the realities of a competitive gaming experience. EVE is a sandbox so yea you can (and many people do) cooperate, but the competition aspect overshadows cooperation, in game as it does in real life, so your choice to rail against the people who choose competition over cooperation demonstrates a flaw in your choice to play this game.
In plainer English, you're playing the wrong video game and would be happier (I'd guess) in a (themepark styled) game that controls competition and aggression and encourages cooperation more.....such as almost every MMO on the market that isn't EVE.
|
Gyromite
Stronghold of the Condemned The Bloc
24
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:43:00 -
[498] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ingame, I will cheat, steal, lie, exploit, manipulate, kill and altogether take advantage of every opportunity I can to primarily earn ISK, and secondarily to cause loss to other players deliberately and intentionally (even of there is no profit in it, but mostly if there is). I understand, appreciate and practice loyalty as well as teamwork when it supports my own interests or is otherwise ofnmotivation to me.
Offline I am a 33yr old (bday today) nursing student with the history of a short military tenure, and dropping out of first legal studies and then psychology. Im glad to have found my "true calling" at last and its the best thing to ever have happened to me aside from my family. It would be, and is, completely unconscionable to me to ever act IRL as I do ingame. Both professionally as a nurse towards my patients and colleagues, as well as otherwise in my private life towards other people. I have a very strict and complex moral system that has taken me years to distinguish and for which I make sacrifices, because it is what I believe is right and its the person I want to be.I dont hold other people to, or expect them, to share my moral views. Those are their own business ans their own prerogative to define. And even if they are at odds with my own, I respect them for what they are, as they spring from the same source as my own do. From personal choice and autonomy. And most importantly, from responsibility
...
Upon introspection, the real reason why I do so, is a mix of sadism and showing that I am better than others.. The vicarious pleasure of extending my reach and negatively affecting another human players existence. Their tears are my joy and giddy pleasure. That is the cherry on the cake, after the original rush of competition and conflict where they try to protect what is theirs against my deliberate action to deprive them of it, or, in my own adrenaline rushed attempt to defend myself in from their attempt to do the same to me.
....
Summa summarum: These are my introspections on my personal moral dichotomy (and dilemma) between behavior as who I really, mundanely, am, in my day to day professional and private life (Im not kidding about any of that) and how I behave in this game. Before anyone starts shouting "SOCIOPATH" , I ask and recommend that you seriously, deeply, question yourself about your own behavior, why you do it, and how you reconcile that difference (if there is any) to your own honest self. Well, to put it bluntly, it seems that you get high on people-¦s suffering, as demonstrated by your choices of walks of life. Law-related activities are a prime field to witness strangers in disarray, and possibly do them in. The military is pretty self-explanatory. There are quite a few sadists in the health professions, especially amongst nurses who take care of the elderly. Maybe their sadism is a result of having to wash old people-¦s butts on a daily basis, but I-¦d say the seed of it was in them already. I personally think people like you have no place in an online game, since games are made to play pretend, and suppose the pursuit of ingame goals, as opposed to RL ones. There is a huge glaring problem when a certain category of players use an online game as a platform to reap Schadenfreude, and care more about the RL reaction of some absolutely unknown random Joe whom they have had no business of any kind with, than the ingame benefit they get from scamming/ganking/whatevering him. You say you do it for the ISK first, but after a few paragraphs of self-introspection, you write Salvos Rhoska wrote:What I am REALLY looking for, is a reaction that shows I reached out and touched you Schadenfreude-oriented gankers are a blight on online videogaming, since they will look for every little flaw or borderline exploit to get an advantage over other players, and this forces devs to plug holes that could have been left open for reasonable and fun-loving players to "exploit". In the same order of idea, CONCORD is there because of gankers. If those players were screened and banned, there would be no need for an all-powerful space police, players would police themselves and have fun doing, some play pretending pirates, some play pretending police, etc... The foundation for a sound gaming community is players who assess that the collection of pixels they interact with is controlled by other fellow gamers, and the common sense that springs from this: don-¦t be a jerk. Ultima Online was trammelized because of camping gankers. This sharded the sandbox, and forced devs to impose hardcoded limits on PvP. I believe the age of anonymity on the internet will come to an end in the future, once too many schoolgirls have committed suicide because of anonymous trolls trolling them. All the cop-outs stating that RL and internet activities are de-coupled are just, well, cop-outs. Ethics, in an open sandboxy environment (that is, not Counter-Strike or Battlefield) are context irrelevant. And, "it-¦s a game". Well, start behaving like it-¦s one, instead of having a hard-on for ingame actions that will purposefully make other players rage IRL. Wow way to over analyze, instead of telling other people not to take the game so seriously maybe you should take your own advice and play pretend on Animal Crossing. People like you are fun to scam/gank/grief. You should tell me your mains' name. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1075
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:45:00 -
[499] - Quote
Just as a genuinely stupid person will lack the cognitive ability to understand the scope of how truly stupid they really are, equally so, a person with a below average moral fiber will have no way to gauge his own crapulence.
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1075
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:47:00 -
[500] - Quote
Gyromite wrote: People like you are fun to scam/gank/grief. You should tell me your mains' name.
This is my main. It always has been and it always will be. So what now tough guy?
|
|
Oblivion King
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:48:00 -
[501] - Quote
Mandarine wrote: I never understood why Lofty29 wasn-¦t IP permaba...
googled expecting some inhumane prank devoid of morality found a guy using his wits to gank others
seriously |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1524
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:51:00 -
[502] - Quote
I have actually stood in queue at the bank and thought to myself, "I could break this guy in front of me's neck before he even knew what the hell was going on..."
I don't of course because that would be bad and truthfully, I don't think that it has anything to do with legality. I also don't not do it because of any thoughts about "maybe this yutz has a family that will miss him" or "he doesn't deserve it". I don't know, I just think about it and then dismiss the thought as quickly as it entered my mind.
Am I a bad person?
Man, I hope I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone actually wants to be a bad person. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16774
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 19:55:00 -
[503] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:And, "it-¦s a game". Well, start behaving like it-¦s one Take your own advice, start behaving like it's a game, one that involves your stuff exploding.
Quote:instead of having a hard-on for ingame actions that will purposefully make other players rage IRL. If person A rages in real life because person B deprived them of their imaginary spaceship I'd say that person A is the one with the problem.
Don't get mad, get even. It's what Eve is all about.
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
65
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:00:00 -
[504] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Man, I hope I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone actually wants to be a bad person.
I think there is a lot of important stuff in this simple sentiment.
My perspective is that we are all "bad people", but we aspire to be "better" than that. All of us could do absolutely unthinkable destruction to everything around us, completely sporadically and without warning. But we don't. Why? Because we choose not to. Why? Because there are qualities we value and wish to uphold in ourselves. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1526
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:04:00 -
[505] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mandarine wrote:And, "it-¦s a game". Well, start behaving like it-¦s one Take your own advice. Quote:instead of having a hard-on for ingame actions that will purposefully make other players rage IRL. If person A rages in real life because person B deprived them of their imaginary spaceship I'd say that person A is the one with the problem. Don't get mad, get even. It's what Eve is all about.
I agree. I think this discussion is one of causality.
Gankers were around before tears is my bet.
In the way back days, gankers acted to pad their killboads, make a profit, that kind of thing.
Then one day, one guy that got ganked sent a very emotional response to a ganker that had just made his ship explode, filled with vitriol, real life threats, profanity, and all manner of other things one could define as bad.
In short, Tears very, very rarely cause ganking. Ganking can but does not have to cause tears.
How one responds to getting exploded is up to the person being exploded and not to the person that is doing the exploding.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Qalix
Long Jump.
130
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:06:00 -
[506] - Quote
Why is OP so negative about negativity? Why is he so hostile to hostility? |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:10:00 -
[507] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:@Mandarine: Well, Im somewhat disappointed by your reply.
I don't see much introspection or cutting honesty there, nor analysis of your own moral conduct as compared to in and out of game.. Mostly its a rant about how EVE doesn't work the way you want it to, or doesn't more directly support the kind of play you want, as you perceive the sandbox.
But thanks for taking the time anyways.
One more question though, what do you do professionally?
My moral conduct IRL and ingame is very similar, sorry about that, there-¦s not much more to tell about it.
Coming from a quite well-off family, I am grateful to be able to live without working, which gives me ample time to do stuff I love and reflect on things. I could be earning figures by having followed in their footsteps, simply by using their network, but it made absolutely no sense to me. I do not benefit from any kind of welfare and do not need to, anyway.
Jenn aSide wrote: And this post is what happens when you have a personality to lends itself to judging others based on one's own narrow moral ideas. The mission ganker story is a prime example: that kind of game play is an excellent example of one player outsmarting another, which is what GAMES (especially games that do not in any way restrain competition, such as EVE) are generally all about.
It leads folks like this to believe the "they are doing that in game because they can't get away with it in real life" fallacy that is unsupported by any sound reasoning.
To me what it boils down to is players like the above quoted author (who seem to have an over-developed "cooperation" style mind set) try to find ways to reconcile their beliefs with the realities of a competitive gaming experience. EVE is a sandbox so yea you can (and many people do) cooperate, but the competition aspect overshadows cooperation, in game as it does in real life, so your choice to rail against the people who choose competition over cooperation demonstrates a flaw in your choice to play this game.
In plainer English, you're playing the wrong video game and would be happier (I'd guess) in a (themepark styled) game that controls competition and aggression and encourages cooperation more.....such as almost every MMO on the market that isn't EVE.
Competitive video gaming is an oxymoron. albeit a successful one, in an age where people-¦s image is a product like another. I can, to a degree, understand competition in an even-playfield game like LoL, but in a mostly rule-less sandbox, it makes absolutely no sense, since the playfield is absolutely not even.
If you want to be competitive, go play sports. And even there, there are grey areas. Will you call Pele, the soccer legend, a scrub and an overly cooperative type, also a high-horse moral judge of character moreover, because he was disgusted by the behavior of his opponents in a world cup, when they kept on tackling him in the hope of hurting him, thereby preventing him from playing? Tackling is somewhat authorized, isn-¦t it? I guess Pele is a scrub, then. Why didn-¦t he HTFU?
Oblivion King wrote:Mandarine wrote: I never understood why Lofty29 wasn-¦t IP permaba... googled expecting some inhumane prank devoid of morality found a guy using his wits to gank others seriously
Taking advantage of some unknown dude-¦s belief that a random gamer will not blatantly lie when saying he will help him, or worse, taking advantage of some random dude-¦s enjoyment for cooperation and helping others (since Lofty asked for help missioning, iirc), this is not outwitting. This is being a disgusting liar, and it only works on malice-less people, who think that others are devoid of ill intent as well.
Kimmi Chan wrote: How one responds to getting exploded is up to the person being exploded and not to the person that is doing the exploding.
That much is true, but gankers make sure that the explosion occurs when the probabilities of extolling tears from the explodee are the highest, since that-¦s what they-¦re after.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19638
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:14:00 -
[508] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Competitive video gaming is an oxymoron. How so?
Quote:Taking advantage of some unknown dude-¦s belief that a random gamer will not blatantly lie when saying he will help him, or worse, taking advantage of some random dude-¦s enjoyment for cooperation and helping others (since Lofty asked for help missioning, iirc), this is not outwitting. This is being a disgusting liar GǪalso known as GÇ£outwittingGÇ¥.
Quote:That much is true, but gankers make sure that the explosion occurs when the probabilities of extolling tears from the explodee are the highest, since that-¦s what they-¦re after. What's your basis for this?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
131
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:21:00 -
[509] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Coming from a quite well-off family, I am grateful to be able to live without working, which gives me ample time to do stuff I love and reflect on things. I could be earning figures by having followed in their footsteps, simply by using their network, but it made absolutely no sense to me. I do not benefit from any kind of welfare and do not need to, anyway. That is some beautifully subtle trolling! 10/10 |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:21:00 -
[510] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:My moral conduct IRL and ingame is very similar, sorry about that, there-¦s not much more to tell about it.
No, I don't believe that. Though you actually may believe that of yourself. And though your conduct may infact be the same ingame as it is IRL, I think you are just haven't introspected sufficiently sincerely and honestly upon your own motivations and behavior to understand why you do the things you do, and how it is possible that you do the things you do. (or don't do)
This also correlates with your description of your life situation, as living without direction on the funds of your family. Basically, a person who does not know who they are, or where they are going in life, is not really likely to be very conscience of their own behavior and motivations, are they.
I hope you find a personal direction and motivation in your life, at some point. And that perhaps you willl someday have the courage and integrity to as objectively and sincerely as possible assess your own behavioral and motivational nature (which, I think you have not done, and hence, a directionless life). |
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4894
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:22:00 -
[511] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
My moral conduct IRL and ingame is very similar, sorry about that, there-¦s not much more to tell about it.
Coming from a quite well-off family, I am grateful to be able to live without working, which gives me ample time to do stuff I love and reflect on things. I could be earning figures by having followed in their footsteps, simply by using their network, but it made absolutely no sense to me. I do not benefit from any kind of welfare and do not need to, anyway.
The above kind of clues me in on why you opinions seem (excuse these terms, but nothing else fits) alien and over-indulged to me. It's very easy to have a cooperative styled mind set when you never ever had to compete for anything.
Quote: Competitive video gaming is an oxymoron. albeit a successful one, in an age where people-¦s image is a product like another. I can, to a degree, understand competition in an even-playfield game like LoL, but in a mostly rule-less sandbox, it makes absolutely no sense, since the playfield is absolutely not even.
Evenness of a playing field is not a prerequisite for a competatvie game. in fact, some of the best games feature uneven playing fields because overcoming challenges is fun for some people.
Quote: If you want to be competitive, go play sports.
Or EVE. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
37
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:25:00 -
[512] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Man, I hope I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone actually wants to be a bad person. I think there is a lot of important stuff in this simple sentiment. My perspective is that we are all "bad people", but we aspire to be "better" than that. All of us could do absolutely unthinkable destruction to everything around us, completely sporadically and without warning. But we don't. Why? Because we choose not to. Why? Because there are qualities we value and wish to uphold in ourselves.
I agree. I could at any point in time try to concoct a scheme where I outsmart a fellow human being and rob him of his hopes, faith in humanity, isk, and time invested. Any one could, potentially. Try to outsmart someone at their expense for my personal amusement, so I can feel smarter than them.
But why? I don't feel I need to. I'm already secure enough in myself that I don't feel I need to act in a way that could very well contribute to one's outlook on the harshness of humanity. There are already enough bad people trying to turn this swimming pool brown. I'd rather contribute towards making it clear again.
Just as I could easily scam a guy in eve for isk, I could just as easily lift an old man's wallet and take everything he owns. Are they exactly the same? No. Are they similar? Yes. Similar in the regard that they're both actions aimed at benefiting one at the expense of the other.
I wish to be a better person. I understand any and all of us are capable of choosing to do bad things at any time. Because I know this choice exists, I choose to be good. I choose to be nice to others and try not to impede them as much as possible, within a reasonable scope.
I value good in myself and in others. I despise bad in myself and want to make myself better, and I despise people who do bad with no desire to better themselves. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:29:00 -
[513] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:My moral conduct IRL and ingame is very similar, sorry about that, there-¦s not much more to tell about it.
Mandarine wrote:I-¦ve been playing since 2003 (this is an alt, of course), and always wanted to be a space vigilante. Surprise surprise, it-¦s the only profession in EvE that is absolutely pointless: The "lawful" or rather, play-pretending pirates are very rare, and they are not the ones being jerks in New Eden. Gankers and scammers cannot be curbed, because of multiple accounts: you can-¦t hurt their wallet.
Would you describe your IRL morality and behavior as being consistent with that of an IRL vigilante?
If not, you may find you need to introspect and analyse yourself in regards to the first quote. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4894
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:32:00 -
[514] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Man, I hope I'm not a bad person. I don't think anyone actually wants to be a bad person. I think there is a lot of important stuff in this simple sentiment. My perspective is that we are all "bad people", but we aspire to be "better" than that. All of us could do absolutely unthinkable destruction to everything around us, completely sporadically and without warning. But we don't. Why? Because we choose not to. Why? Because there are qualities we value and wish to uphold in ourselves. I agree. I could at any point in time try to concoct a scheme where I outsmart a fellow human being and rob him of his hopes, faith in humanity, isk, and time invested. Any one could, potentially. Try to outsmart someone at their expense for my personal amusement, so I can feel smarter than them. But why? I don't feel I need to. I'm already secure enough in myself that I don't feel I need to act in a way that could very well contribute to one's outlook on the harshness of humanity. There are already enough bad people trying to turn this swimming pool brown. I'd rather contribute towards making it clear again. Just as I could easily scam a guy in eve for isk, I could just as easily lift an old man's wallet and take everything he owns. Are they exactly the same? No. Are they similar? Yes. Similar in the regard that they're both actions aimed at benefiting one at the expense of the other. I wish to be a better person. I understand any and all of us are capable of choosing to do bad things at any time. Because I know this choice exists, I choose to be good. I choose to be nice to others and try not to impede them as much as possible, within a reasonable scope. I value good in myself and in others. I despise bad in myself and want to make myself better, and I despise people who do bad with no desire to better themselves.
And what we've been telling you is that none of that has anything to do with EVE. If you scam someone (an activity that is legal in EVE Online) and that leads them to take a dimmer view of humanity, they should not have been playing EVE in the 1st place. You are not responsible for their poor choice of game to play.
It's the same as if you played poker with someone, beat them with a Queen High Straight Flush and that person now takes a dim view of women because most Queens are female........
You need to learn how to separate in game from out of game. NOTHING you do in game marks you as a better person than anyone else. It's what you do in real life that matters.
|
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
222
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:37:00 -
[515] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Grandiose highfalutin speech on his moral superiority to the inferior subhuman that surround him.
C'est moi, c'est moi, tis I.
Honestly, you fit the role perfectly. It's amazing. I'm even reading your posts in his voice the resemblance is so strong.
Which is probably far more of a vocal complement than you deserve, cause Rober Goulet absolutely pinned that role.
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:38:00 -
[516] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Don't get mad, get even. It's what Eve is all about.
That is absolutely impossible when ganking characters are absolutely unrelated to ISK-making characters used by the player.
Gankers aren-¦t dumb, they know how to harvest tears, and therefore, how to not be in a position to provide them.
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Would you describe your IRL morality and behavior as being consistent with that of an IRL vigilante?
If not, you may find you need to introspect and analyse yourself in regards to the first quote.
I-¦m not a vigilante ingame. This profession is impossible to pursue, as you can-¦t curb gankers, since you cannot hit their wallets, which are on other characters.
IRL, I don-¦t accept when people fling **** at each other for no reason and I do step in.
Jenn aSide wrote: It's very easy to have a cooperative styled mind set when you never ever had to compete for anything.
Evenness of a playing field is not a prerequisite for a competitive game. in fact, some of the best games feature uneven playing fields because overcoming challenges is fun for some people.
And that-¦s why the rich are much more cooperative and helpful than the poor, as exemplified by Wall Street and southern countries, where families do not share anything and eat their own.
That-¦s also why all competitive video games have uneven playfields and not the same number of participants on each team, for example.
My, Mrs Genocide, it-¦s a good thing you-¦re here on those forums to shed some light!
Tippia wrote:Tippia being Tippia
I don-¦t have time, nor will to entertain your hobby, Tippia. Your only means of communication are cherry-picking quotes, pretending not to understand stuff that-¦s been explained a thousand times, faulty logic gates and faux-rhetoric 101. You also have the nasty habit to ask precisions about common-sense stuff. If someone you have a mind to troll says, "yellow is yellow", you will answer "as luck would have it, some yellow is brownish", or "... which disproves your previous post", or "how so?". I enjoy honest human personalities. Bots, much less.
But don-¦t feel neglected because of that, look at all your likes! |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:42:00 -
[517] - Quote
Oh dear, they're doing it again...
What is even worse is they don't even realise and/or can't control themselves.
Back on topic:
I find these forums are negative and hostile because posters simply want to attack each other rather than deal with the topic at hand. Not that we've had any examples of this recently so I'm presenting a pure theory with no substance at all...
Not that this last statement in any way reflects any of the posts since the cleanup.
To the person who has genuinely fresh, new and relevant ideas - I pity you |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19640
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:45:00 -
[518] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:I don-¦t have time, nor will to entertain your hobby, Tippia. If you can't answer simple questions, don't go onto the forums. If you don't have anything to support your claims, don't make them. If you can't make an argument and have to rely on fallacies to cover for the fact that you can't support anything you said, just stay quiet. It's really that simple.
So, again: how is competitive gaming an oxymoron? Why does successfully lying to someone not qualify as outwitting them? What's your basis for claiming that gankers are after tears and that they try to maximise the probabilities of extracting them? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16778
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:48:00 -
[519] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Don't get mad, get even. It's what Eve is all about.
That is absolutely impossible when ganking characters are absolutely unrelated to ISK-making characters used by the player. Gankers aren-¦t dumb, they know how to harvest tears, and therefore, how to not be in a position to provide them. You're wrong, to get even requires effort, and sometimes deceit. Infiltrate the ganking corps, shoot at their stuff while in their corp. You may not get any tears, but you will certainly be able to inflict damage upon them.
Oh wait you won't do any of those things, because it offends your real life morality, despite the fact that you're playing a game that is immoral by nature.
Quote: And that-¦s why the rich are much more cooperative and helpful than the poor, as exemplified by Wall Street and southern countries, where families do not share anything and eat their own.
Not sure if serious or troll, assuming serious, with notable exceptions the rich are all about helping themselves, to be blunt 95% of rich people couldn't give two craps about the poor unless it makes for good press.
|
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
223
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:50:00 -
[520] - Quote
Tesco Ergo Sum wrote:To the person who has genuinely fresh, new and relevant ideas - I pity you
They actually get treated fairly well.
Anyone who
A: makes sure to do a search to make sure the topic has not been brought up 10,000x before. And B: Phrases their suggestion in a way that does not say that anyone who disagrees is bad and feedback is forbidden.
Actually gets treated to a fairly civil discussion about their topic unless they start being super belligerent about "No it's perfect, no alterations or compromise accepted"
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=305675&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325297&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=324369&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=325273&find=unread
Are all civil discussion about proposed ideas, even if people are ambivalent or against them. And that's just a quick 10 second scoop of threads on the first page.
It's fairly simple. Understand that peer review is not peer confirmation, and everyone gets along perfectly fine. |
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4896
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:56:00 -
[521] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: It's very easy to have a cooperative styled mind set when you never ever had to compete for anything.
Evenness of a playing field is not a prerequisite for a competitive game. in fact, some of the best games feature uneven playing fields because overcoming challenges is fun for some people.
And that-¦s why the rich are much more cooperative and helpful than the poor, as exemplified by Wall Street and southern countries, where families do not share anything and eat their own.
What a prejudiced and Hierarchical way of thinking. You sound like one of those rich people who hate rich people lol. Those types seem to not understand how good they have it and (even worse) their affluence tends to skew the way they see reality. it's not a stretch to see someone like that playing a video game they fundamentally dislike while complaining about some of the core features of the game (features and ploicies I should say, that make things like scamming and ganking legal and accepted gameplay)..
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1532
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:56:00 -
[522] - Quote
So wait, Bruce Wayne plays Eve? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 20:59:00 -
[523] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:So wait, Bruce Wayne plays Eve? You picked up on that too, eh? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
38
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:02:00 -
[524] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
And what we've been telling you is that none of that has anything to do with EVE. If you scam someone (an activity that is legal in EVE Online) and that leads them to take a dimmer view of humanity, they should not have been playing EVE in the 1st place. You are not responsible for their poor choice of game to play.
It's the same as if you played poker with someone, beat them with a Queen High Straight Flush and that person now takes a dim view of women because most Queens are female........
You need to learn how to separate in game from out of game. NOTHING you do in game marks you as a better person than anyone else. It's what you do in real life that matters.
Regardless of what you think you're telling me, your action of justifying your choice to derive enjoyment at the expense of others tells me way more about your personality than the reason of, "it's allowed in EVE".
Yes, I get it. It's "allowed". Though the game itself even flags you as a "criminal", so even the game is operating with an understanding of wrong and right. And you're choosing to be a "criminal". You, sitting at your computer, is choosing to steal from people within a game, with the game itself telling you and everyone around you that you're a "criminal".
Eve is the same as Poker? You heard it here folks. Whenever we log into EVE, CCP deals us 5 cards randomly out of a 52 card deck and then we wager who does and doesn't have the better hand.
Eve is 100% exactly the same as POKER.
I need to learn how to separate in game from out of game? Well, on the contrary; you need to learn to understand that the person making the choice to be mean to others on the computer is the same person who gets up out of your computer chair to check the fridge for snacks. |
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
3401
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:05:00 -
[525] - Quote
QFT |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
226
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:07:00 -
[526] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The soul of a knight should be a thing remarkable, His heart and his mind as pure as morning dew. With a will and a self-restraint That's the envy of ev'ry saint He could easily work a miracle or two. To love and desire he ought to be unsparkable, The ways of the flesh should offer no allure. But where in the world Is there in the world A man so untouched and pure? (C'est moi!)
C'est moi! C'est moi, I blush to disclose. I'm far too noble to lie. That man in whom These qualities bloom, C'est moi, c'est moi, 'tis I. I've never strayed From all I believe; I'm blessed with an iron will. Had I been made The partner of Eve, We'd be in Eden still. C'est moi! C'est moi! The angels have chose To fight their battles below, And here I stand, as pure as a pray'r, Incredibly clean, with virtue to spare, The godliest man I know! C'est moi!
Teach us more, Sir Lancelot!
Honestly, I think that if anyone actually goes and listens to the 98' Version of Camelot, it will be by far the most productive thing to come out of this thread. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19642
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:08:00 -
[527] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Eve is the same as Poker? Yes. Both have legal and illegal moves, and among the legal ones are stuff that make you derive enjoyment at the expense of others and which, outside of the game, would be considered complete **** moves or even be outright illegal depending on the context.
The person who makes the choice on what of these legal moves to make is the same person who gets up and then acts according from a completely different rule set GÇö where those same moves would get him in a world of trouble GÇö in the real world. His being able to separate the two is pretty important or he'd go around shivving people he lost to in the game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Qalix
Long Jump.
133
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:09:00 -
[528] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Grandiose highfalutin speech on his moral superiority to the inferior subhuman that surround him. C'est moi, c'est moi, tis I. Honestly, you fit the role perfectly. It's amazing. I'm even reading your posts in his voice the resemblance is so strong. Which is probably far more of a vocal complement than you deserve, cause Rober Goulet absolutely pinned that role. A Camelot reference! Kudos, sir! Kudos!
|
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:13:00 -
[529] - Quote
All this feels somehow familiar... Did I travel back in time?
EVE = game
Action in game does not equal action in real life.
Best of luck to all in this discussion!
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
39
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:21:00 -
[530] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Eve is the same as Poker? Yes. Both have legal and illegal moves, and among the legal ones are stuff that make you derive enjoyment at the expense of others and which, outside of the game, would be considered complete **** moves or even be outright illegal depending on the context. The person who makes the choice on what of these legal moves to make is the same person who gets up and then acts according from a completely different rule set GÇö where those same moves would get him in a world of trouble GÇö in the real world. His being able to separate the two is pretty important or he'd go around shivving people he lost to in the game.
Your desperate attempts to defeat my argument has lowered you to a point where you're willing to use poker as justification for stealing from people.
In poker, the rules are: If you win, you take the money. To play, you must wager money of your own. Therefore, a personal investment constitutes a barrier that "should" motivate a player to aspire to "win", which is have the higher cards given to them through chance.
In EVE, the rules are: Do what you want. Fly ships into the sun. Shoot lasers at rocks. Pack your minivan as full of drugs as possible and fly around the universe. You get to choose what motivates you into playing, you get to choose how to define your own "win".
Poker, look at 5 cards and wonder what 5 cards the guy staring at you has.
You're stating because since they have "rules" they're the same? They're the same? Seriously, poker and eve are the same? No, they're similar in the regard that you wager things and that they have 'rules'.
Come on now. Using your logic, EVE is exactly the same as flipping a coin. EvE is exactly the same as doing your taxes. EvE is exactly the same as walking across the street.
Maybe sharing some similarities.
But the same? Give me a break . . . . . |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:23:00 -
[531] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:All this feels somehow familiar... Did I travel back in time?
EVE = game
Action in game does not equal action in real life.
Best of luck to all in this discussion!
The action in real life creates the action in the game.
Real life is real life, sitting at a computer or jogging around the block. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:26:00 -
[532] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Oh wait you won't do any of those things, because it offends your real life morality, despite the fact that you're playing a game that is immoral by nature.
the rich are all about helping themselves, to be blunt 95% of rich people couldn't give two craps about the poor unless it makes for good press.
But I thought Mrs Genocide said that being well-off makes you cooperative by nature, i.e., with everybody?
EvE isn-¦t immoral, but sandboxy by nature, you can do whatever you want. However, and to take the Lofty example again, pretending to need help from another player, and exploiting his good nature, is clearly meta, since it relies on the history of MMO interactions, where players help each other to complete quests.
And ganker corps are just ganker corps. Destabilize it, destroy their T1 hulls and T2 mods, they won-¦t care, their money-making mains are in another.
Victoria Thorne wrote:All this feels somehow familiar... Did I travel back in time?
EVE = game
Action in game does not equal action in real life.
Best of luck to all in this discussion!
Ethics are not bound by context.
You-¦re welcome! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19643
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:30:00 -
[533] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Your desperate attempts to defeat my argument has lowered you to a point where you're willing to use poker as justification for stealing from people. Nope.
Quote:In poker, the rules are: If you win, you take the money. To play, you must wager money of your own. Therefore, a personal investment constitutes a barrier that "should" motivate a player to aspire to "win", which is have the higher cards given to them through chance. There are plenty more rules than that, involving how much you can bet and when, how to get hold of various hands and how much your they are worth, how you are allowed to turn that hand into a win. These rules allow for some truly dickish behaviour towards your fellow players that still let you derive enjoyment at their expense without disqualifying you from the game. What you're allowed to do in the game is very different from what you're allowed to do outside it. Bringing the in-game state out of the game (or vice versa) is generally not seen as healthy.
Quote:In EVE, the rules are GǪmuch the same. There are rules involving how much you can bet and when, how you're allowed to get your hands on stuff much it's worth, and how you're you are allowed to turn it all into a win. These rules allow for some truly dickish behaviour towards your fellow players that still let you derive enjoyment at their expense without disqualifying you from the game. What you're allowed to do in the game is very different from what you're allowed to do outside it. Bringing the in-game state out of the game (or vice versa) is generally not seen as healthy.
Quote:You're stating because since they have "rules" they're the same? No, I'm stating that because they're both games, they have the same kind of magic circle. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1534
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:32:00 -
[534] - Quote
Tippia wrote:the same kind of magic circle.
Donuts are magic circles.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2828
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:34:00 -
[535] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Tippia wrote:the same kind of magic circle. Donuts are magic circles.
Hopefully it's not the kind of blue magic that requires you to get kicked in the nuts. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:36:00 -
[536] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:All this feels somehow familiar... Did I travel back in time?
EVE = game
Action in game does not equal action in real life.
Best of luck to all in this discussion!
The action in real life creates the action in the game. Real life is real life, sitting at a computer or jogging around the block.
You're silly! You are making me smile!
It's your choice to play, if you disapprove of the rules of the game, then don't play. Simple as that, really. If you don't approve of morally questionable behavior, then don't play games which involve it.
It's like getting mad at someone for assassinating someone in Crusader Kings 2... Your moral objection is completely irrelevant in a game which revolves around it as a core principle of gameplay. If you feel that strongly about it, either do something about it in game, or don't play. Forum warrioring certainly won't achieve your goal. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:40:00 -
[537] - Quote
Poker is the same as EvE, because in Poker some people genuinely enjoy making their adversaries mad, they don-¦t care about the money.
Also, to this end, they fund cyborgs, who impersonate other opponents at the table. But really, for one real player, there are three alts, and the unsuspecting "gankee" doesn-¦t know this.
In EvE, everybody is dealt a "hand" with an equal number of ships.
The similarities do not stop there. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16781
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:41:00 -
[538] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:But I thought Mrs Genocide said that being well-off makes you cooperative by nature, i.e., with everybody? I think that you're reading things that aren't there, Jenn Aside said that if you've never had to compete for something it's easy to develop a cooperative mindset. That is not the same as saying that the rich are much more cooperative and helpful than the poor.
The poor on the whole tend to be more charitable than the rich, probably because they know how difficult it is to survive with nothing, the rich on the other hand tend to be charitable only when it suits their interests, or gives a tax break.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19643
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:42:00 -
[539] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Poker is the same as EvE, because in Poker some people genuinely enjoy making their adversaries mad, they don-¦t care about the money. Do you have anything to support this claim? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:44:00 -
[540] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
Ethics are not bound by context.
You-¦re welcome!
Actually, ethics are completely bound by context. What is considered an ethical action during a war, would not be outside of it. There are many situations where behavior is ethically sanctioned that would not be otherwise.
|
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:44:00 -
[541] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Your desperate attempts to defeat my argument has lowered you to a point where you're willing to use poker as justification for stealing from people. Nope. Quote:In poker, the rules are: If you win, you take the money. To play, you must wager money of your own. Therefore, a personal investment constitutes a barrier that "should" motivate a player to aspire to "win", which is have the higher cards given to them through chance. There are plenty more rules than that, involving how much you can bet and when, how to get hold of various hands and how much your they are worth, how you are allowed to turn that hand into a win. These rules allow for some truly dickish behaviour towards your fellow players that still let you derive enjoyment at their expense without disqualifying you from the game. What you're allowed to do in the game is very different from what you're allowed to do outside it. Bringing the in-game state out of the game (or vice versa) is generally not seen as healthy. Quote:In EVE, the rules are GǪmuch the same. There are rules involving how much you can bet and when, how you're allowed to get your hands on stuff much it's worth, and how you're you are allowed to turn it all into a win. These rules allow for some truly dickish behaviour towards your fellow players that still let you derive enjoyment at their expense without disqualifying you from the game. What you're allowed to do in the game is very different from what you're allowed to do outside it. Bringing the in-game state out of the game (or vice versa) is generally not seen as healthy. Quote:You're stating because since they have "rules" they're the same? No, I'm stating that because they're both games, they have the same kind of magic circle.
I choose not to play poker.
I'm choosing to play EVE. EvE lets me choose how I want to win. I can play EVE in a way that does not require "dickish" behavior. Because EVE lets me play this way, it gives me the opportunity to apply good and bad reasoning on people who do and do not subscribe to the same belief as me.
Poker it is understood that you're playing right then and there, by everyone involved, to win themselves or have someone they like win, at the expense of everyone else involved. Technically, you could choose to play poker however you wish, but that's not typically how the game is suppose to be played. Technically, I can join a poker game and tape the cards into a crown, put it on my head and stand on the table screaming I'm the poker king until security knocks me to the floor and escorts me out of the building. But that's not how it's "suppose" to be played.
EvE is a game where you can choose to play without wanting to hurt anyone.
EVE offers an incredibly higher amount of choices one can take, with them setting their own win scenarios.
Your poker-eve comparison is weak. Your desire to push such a weak comparison leads me to believe that you're incapable of formulating real arguments, there fore you should ultimately stop trying. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2830
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:46:00 -
[542] - Quote
Quote:EvE is a game where you can choose to play without wanting to hurt anyone.
You can choose to fold every hand in poker as well, that doesn't make you a "good" poker player. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:53:00 -
[543] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Mandarine wrote:
Ethics are not bound by context.
You-¦re welcome!
Actually, ethics are completely bound by context. What is considered an ethical action during a war, would not be outside of it. There are many situations where behavior is ethically sanctioned that would not be otherwise.
Child sacrifice is ethical in a child sacrifice ceremony
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:EvE is a game where you can choose to play without wanting to hurt anyone.
You can choose to fold every hand in poker as well, that doesn't make you a "good" poker player.
But the goal of poker is to earn IRL money, and there-¦s a very strict set of rules, you can-¦t do anything you want.
In EvE, it-¦s a mostly rule-less sandbox, you can do anything you want, and there are no goals but those you make up.
In New Eden, you-¦re only bound by your own idiosyncrasies. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19643
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:53:00 -
[544] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I choose not to play poker.
I'm choosing to play EVE. EvE lets me choose how I want to win. I can play EVE in a way that does not require "dickish" behavior. Because EVE lets me play this way, it gives me the opportunity to apply good and bad reasoning on people who do and do not subscribe to the same belief as me. GǪand applying bad reasoning (by, for instance, presuming that in-game and out-of-game behaviour is somehow connected) is a form of prejudice.
Quote:Poker it is understood that you're playing right then and there, by everyone involved, to win themselves or have someone they like win, at the expense of everyone else involved. Just like EVE. There are many ways to win and you get to choose your way. However, the rules for what is and what isn't allowed are (or should be) understood by all. Some might not be fully aware of what's allowed, but that's their error and not a reflection on the game or on the other players.
Quote:EvE is a game where you can choose to play without wanting to hurt anyone. GǪand that's nice and all but doesn't have any impact on the morality, ethics, or personality of how others choose to play. If you break the magic circle and try to connect the relationship between your and their in-game decisions, and your and their out-of-game decisions, then the problem is not with them but with you and your inability to separate the two.
The EVE-poker comparison is pretty much rock-solid because we're talking about the exact same units of analysis: a game and its players. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 21:57:00 -
[545] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:All this feels somehow familiar... Did I travel back in time?
EVE = game
Action in game does not equal action in real life.
Best of luck to all in this discussion!
The action in real life creates the action in the game. Real life is real life, sitting at a computer or jogging around the block. You're silly! You are making me smile! It's your choice to play, if you disapprove of the rules of the game, then don't play. Simple as that, really. If you don't approve of morally questionable behavior, then don't play games which involve it. It's like getting mad at someone for assassinating someone in Crusader Kings 2... Your moral objection is completely irrelevant in a game which revolves around it as a core principle of gameplay. If you feel that strongly about it, either do something about it in game, or don't play. Forum warrioring certainly won't achieve your goal.
There's no personal investment. Crusader Kings 2, a great game btw, has a definitive beginning and ending. I don't know if you mean multiplayer, if you do kudos to you for getting it to work, but I would assume since being continuously assassinated by 1 guy causing you to lose the game, well whatever. I didn't have to work for anything. Seeing as that game is over, I'll go start another one. CK2 games start and end constantly. EVE carries on indefinitely. Winning in one game and losing in another, ultimately is the same because win or lose the game is over and if you desire to keep playing, another one must be started.
The only real thing I feel strongly about so far on these forums is my opportunity to discuss opinions with others. If someone wishes to steal/rob/gank/extort someone within the confines of EVE, by all means, have at it! Knock yourself out! Go hard in the paint!
But I'm not going to do it. And while some people will applaud one's ability to "outsmart" others and ruin their game play, well, I'll condemn it for them choosing to ruin someone elses game. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:00:00 -
[546] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand applying bad reasoning (by, for instance, presuming that in-game and out-of-game behaviour is somehow connected) is a form of prejudice.
It's not a prejudice if you're acting like the person I'm accusing you of being.
Prejudice would be me looking at the avatar of your character, taking no action of yours into consideration, and pre judging(what prejudice means) the type of person you are. An example: You choose to have a woman's character so I make an assumption that you enjoy unicorns and butterfles. Or maybe that you're artistic or have beautiful handwriting. Those would be an example of prejudice.
In this situation, I'm seeing a person choose to act in a manner that represents he is capable of being a bad person. A person who personally makes the choice to upset others.
That's not prejudice. That's judgement. Nothing pre about it, just straight up, after the fact, judice. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2830
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:02:00 -
[547] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
But I'm not going to do it. And while some people will applaud one's ability to "outsmart" others and ruin their game play, well, I'll condemn it for them choosing to ruin someone elses game.
Do you know what an "awox" is? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19644
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:04:00 -
[548] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if you're acting like the person I'm accusing you of being. It is prejudice if you're accusing them of being a bad (or good) person just by looking at how they act in a game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:05:00 -
[549] - Quote
The magic circle analogy is quite amusing, considering many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform.
Oppose this to the reveries of many gamers imagining their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game, and all under personas.
Anybody can see which musings are within the magic circle, and which are not. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19648
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:06:00 -
[550] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:The magic circle analogy is quite amusing, considering many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. Do you have anything to support this claim?
Divine Entervention wrote:How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Iow, you have nothing. So rendering any judgment on their character is straight up prejudice GÇö you're applying unproven assumptions about spurious connections between two separate contexts.
The only thing they've chosen to do is play a game. Same as you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1538
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:09:00 -
[551] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if you're acting like the person I'm accusing you of being. It is prejudice if you're accusing them of being a bad (or good) person just by looking at how they act in a game.
But Tippia -
Real life IS the game! The game IS real
Eve is real!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:09:00 -
[552] - Quote
It's not against the law of society, just as ganking a miner in eve isn't against the rules.
But if I go stand outside and pick my nose constantly, then people are allowed to look at me and come to the conclusion that I am some one who stands outside in public and picks his nose.
What you're arguing is that if you want to stand outside and pick your nose, that it's wrong for me to look at you picking your nose, and conclude you're the type of person who enjoys nose picking in public. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1538
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:11:00 -
[553] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if you're acting like the person I'm accusing you of being. It is prejudice if you're accusing them of being a bad (or good) person just by looking at how they act in a game. How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Them choosing to do bad things leads me to believe they are people who choose to do bad things. It's not prejudice, it's cause and effect.
Actions taken in a game are not indicative of actions taken out of game.
If you think otherwise it's prejudice.
The only real fact you truly know about anyone playing Eve is - they play Eve.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2831
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:11:00 -
[554] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:The magic circle analogy is quite amusing, considering many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform.
Oppose this to the reveries of many gamers imagining their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game, and all under personas.
Anybody can see which musings are within the magic circle, and which are not.
I think you're a bit off base.
As a sandbox game, one can set whatever goals one wishes. If I want to collect a thousand of that little guy they gave us for Christmas, I can try to do that.
My personal goal is to inflict losses on people. I am a PvP player. Highsec is broken, and doesn't let you do that to the degree that it should. This causes people to think that losses shouldn't happen. When I demonstrate otherwise to them, they give forth an outpouring of tears.
I enjoy "winning" (by inflicting loss), every bit as much as I do "tears". But one is the specific product of someone having the wrong attitude, and it's not me. It's the people who think they can act like this is a single player game, and become unreasonably upset at having the truth pointed out to them. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Gyromite
Stronghold of the Condemned The Bloc
27
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:11:00 -
[555] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if you're acting like the person I'm accusing you of being. It is prejudice if you're accusing them of being a bad (or good) person just by looking at how they act in a game. How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Them choosing to do bad things leads me to believe they are people who choose to do bad things. It's not prejudice, it's cause and effect.
I enjoy pirating in lo-sec immensely and putting up outrageous sell orders hoping for easy money, and I'm also a minister of 12 years in real life who (when I'm not playing eve) loves to feed the local homeless. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19648
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:11:00 -
[556] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:What you're arguing is that if you want to stand outside and pick your nose, that it's wrong for me to look at you picking your nose, and conclude you're the type of person who enjoys nose picking in public. No. What I'm arguing is that you have not seen anyone pick their nose. All you've done is play a nose-picking simulator. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1538
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:13:00 -
[557] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It's not against the law of society, just as ganking a miner in eve isn't against the rules.
But if I go stand outside and pick my nose constantly, then people are allowed to look at me and come to the conclusion that I am some one who stands outside in public and picks his nose.
What you're arguing is that if you want to stand outside and pick your nose, that it's wrong for me to look at you picking your nose, and conclude you're the type of person who enjoys nose picking in public.
If you pick your nose in public in real life - then you are someone who picks your nose in real life. If you shoot someone in a game that is not real life... --->Insert crazy bullshit here<---
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
67
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:14:00 -
[558] - Quote
Tippia wrote:All you've done is play a nose-picking simulator. This has potential. |
Dani Dusette
Sky Fighters
527
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:15:00 -
[559] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Them choosing to do bad things leads me to believe they are people who choose to do bad things.
It's not prejudice, it's cause and effect. That is like saying you know what kind of person an author is because you've read one of his stories. Mizhir:-á "Dani Dusette, Best Dusette" Ensign (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia-á The Wormhole Sisters of EVE
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2831
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:15:00 -
[560] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Tippia wrote:All you've done is play a nose-picking simulator. This has potential.
There is a goat simulator. Supposedly it sells surprisingly well on Steam. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1538
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:15:00 -
[561] - Quote
Gyromite wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:It's not a prejudice if you're acting like the person I'm accusing you of being. It is prejudice if you're accusing them of being a bad (or good) person just by looking at how they act in a game. How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Them choosing to do bad things leads me to believe they are people who choose to do bad things. It's not prejudice, it's cause and effect. I enjoy pirating in lo-sec immensely and putting up outrageous sell orders hoping for easy money, and I'm also a minister of 12 years in real life who (when I'm not playing eve) loves to feed the local homeless.
Hey there padre! "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:18:00 -
[562] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:What you're arguing is that if you want to stand outside and pick your nose, that it's wrong for me to look at you picking your nose, and conclude you're the type of person who enjoys nose picking in public. No. What I'm arguing is that you have not seen anyone pick their nose. All you've done is play a nose-picking simulator.
No, because I see you (not even you necessarily just whomever this scenario applies to) choosing between choices.
One: Be nice Two: Be mean.
I am seeing it. I can go look on crime and punishment and probably see an instance where a guy has been scammed or has scammed someone.
You and I posting on these forums right now, do you view this as imaginary? That we're not really having this conversation?
EVE is public. Anyone can join. Doing actions in the public of EVE is public, noticeable and observable.
Judgements can be made on that which you've observed.
I'm judging you as a person, right now, based on how I'm seeing you communicate to me. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1540
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:19:00 -
[563] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:What you're arguing is that if you want to stand outside and pick your nose, that it's wrong for me to look at you picking your nose, and conclude you're the type of person who enjoys nose picking in public. No. What I'm arguing is that you have not seen anyone pick their nose. All you've done is play a nose-picking simulator. No, because I see you (not even you necessarily just whomever this scenario applies to) choosing between choices. One: Be nice Two: Be mean. I am seeing it. I can go look on crime and punishment and probably see an instance where a guy has been scammed or has scammed someone. You and I posting on these forums right now, do you view this as imaginary? That we're not really having this conversation? EVE is public. Anyone can join. Doing actions in the public of EVE is public, noticeable and observable. Judgements can be made on that which you've observed. I'm judging you as a person, right now, based on how I'm seeing you communicate to me.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16783
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:20:00 -
[564] - Quote
Gyromite wrote:I enjoy pirating in lo-sec immensely and putting up outrageous sell orders hoping for easy money, and I'm also a minister of 12 years in real life who (when I'm not playing eve) loves to feed the local homeless. This man gets the difference between fantasy and reality. IRL he helps the homeless, in Eve he's a dastardly miscreant who enjoys watching things explode.
His Eve persona is separate from his IRL persona, and rightly so.
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:20:00 -
[565] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mandarine wrote:The magic circle analogy is quite amusing, considering many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform.
Oppose this to the reveries of many gamers imagining their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game, and all under personas.
Anybody can see which musings are within the magic circle, and which are not. I think you're a bit off base. As a sandbox game, one can set whatever goals one wishes. If I want to collect a thousand of that little guy they gave us for Christmas, I can try to do that. My personal goal is to inflict losses on people. I am a PvP player. Highsec is broken, and doesn't let you do that to the degree that it should. This causes people to think that losses shouldn't happen. When I demonstrate otherwise to them, they give forth an outpouring of tears. I enjoy "winning" (by inflicting loss), every bit as much as I do "tears". But one is the specific product of someone having the wrong attitude, and it's not me. It's the people who think they can act like this is a single player game, and become unreasonably upset at having the truth pointed out to them.
Which definitely proves you enjoy yourself (i.e., not your character) causing some unknown dude accross the internet to rage, because you (not your character) think that their way of playing is antisocial.
Obviously, this is not in the magic circle.
There are ways to camouflage this, such as bad RP (Asteroid Surveillance Service, MIneral Liberation Force, etc), but it does not really fool anyone and is just created for the enjoyment of gankers, who revel in their circle-jerk. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:20:00 -
[566] - Quote
Dani Dusette wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Them choosing to do bad things leads me to believe they are people who choose to do bad things.
It's not prejudice, it's cause and effect. That is like saying you know what kind of person an author is because you've read one of his stories.
The book is fiction. All characters are fake. Unless it's a biography of some sort.
The universe of EVE is fiction, but the people involved playing the game are real, making them non-fiction. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2832
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:21:00 -
[567] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Gyromite wrote:I enjoy pirating in lo-sec immensely and putting up outrageous sell orders hoping for easy money, and I'm also a minister of 12 years in real life who (when I'm not playing eve) loves to feed the local homeless. This man gets the difference between fantasy and reality. IRL he helps the homeless, in Eve he's a dastardly miscreant who enjoys watching things explode. His Eve persona is separate from his IRL persona, and rightly so.
Well, according to DE, he feeds the homeless burgers with powdered glass in the meat, or chopped up bits of used bandaids. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19650
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:22:00 -
[568] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:No, because I see you (not even you necessarily just whomever this scenario applies to) choosing between choices. GǪin a game. You then pass this observation through some assumed, unproven, unexplained, completely made-up causal chan that straddles the magic circle and somehow connects in-game with out-of-game.
You have seen nothing about the actual, real-life person. You are only applying your prejudices. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2832
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:23:00 -
[569] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mandarine wrote:The magic circle analogy is quite amusing, considering many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform.
Oppose this to the reveries of many gamers imagining their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game, and all under personas.
Anybody can see which musings are within the magic circle, and which are not. I think you're a bit off base. As a sandbox game, one can set whatever goals one wishes. If I want to collect a thousand of that little guy they gave us for Christmas, I can try to do that. My personal goal is to inflict losses on people. I am a PvP player. Highsec is broken, and doesn't let you do that to the degree that it should. This causes people to think that losses shouldn't happen. When I demonstrate otherwise to them, they give forth an outpouring of tears. I enjoy "winning" (by inflicting loss), every bit as much as I do "tears". But one is the specific product of someone having the wrong attitude, and it's not me. It's the people who think they can act like this is a single player game, and become unreasonably upset at having the truth pointed out to them. Which definitely proves you enjoy yourself (i.e., not your character) causing some unknown dude accross the internet to rage, because you (not your character) think that their way of playing is antisocial. Obviously, this is not in the magic circle. There are ways to camouflage this, such as bad RP (Asteroid Surveillance Service, MIneral Liberation Force, etc), but it does not really fool anyone and is just created for the enjoyment of gankers, who revel in their circle-jerk.
No, I said that when they go into an overblown emotional reaction to having their pixels destroyed because they didn't bother to defend themselves...
that I laugh.
Yes, it's funny. It's funny to see an adult lose their freaking mind over a video game. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:25:00 -
[570] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:No, because I see you (not even you necessarily just whomever this scenario applies to) choosing between choices. GǪin a game. You then pass this observation through some assumed, unproven, unexplained, completely made-up causal chan that straddles the magic circle and somehow connects in-game with out-of-game. You have seen nothing about the actual, real-life person. You are only applying your prejudices. Quote:The book is fiction. All characters are fake. Unless it's a biography of some sort. The universe of EVE is fiction, but the people involved playing the game are real, making them non-fiction. The people are, but those people are not in the game. The characters and actions and all the in-game content is as make-believe and fake as anything you'll find in a book.
But the real life person is the one choosing to make those actions within the game. He didn't have to make the choice to extort someone, he chose to.
That real life person is the one who controlled himself. The game didn't make him do it, he made the game do it.
O god now you're going to try and say we're all characters in a book? Please think about these things. I read game of thrones awhile back. I didn't get to tell Rhaegar to steal Robert Baratheon's woman, lyanna stark. |
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:28:00 -
[571] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, I said that when they go into an overblown emotional reaction to having their pixels destroyed because they didn't bother to defend themselves...
that I laugh.
Yes, it's funny. It's funny to see an adult lose their freaking mind over a video game.
And this was exactly the reaction you were expecting: " My personal goal is to inflict losses on people. I am a PvP player. Highsec is broken, and doesn't let you do that to the degree that it should. This causes people to think that losses shouldn't happen. When I demonstrate otherwise to them, they give forth an outpouring of tears."
You develop glee by witnessing your own self (i:e. not your character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which you have created by using a video game as a platform.
Clearly, this is not within the magic circle. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19650
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:29:00 -
[572] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:But the real life person is the one choosing to make those actions within the game. He didn't have to make the choice to extort someone, he chose to. GǪand all he's doing is playing the game according to its rules. It tells us nothing about his character other than there is some slight likelihood that he likes to play games.
Trying to translate those in-game actions into a judgement on real-life character requires the application of some assumed link between in-game and out-of-game. So all you end up doing is expressing an assumption-based prejudice. If you want to make it anything other than prejudice, you have to replace that assumption with something infinitely more solid and coherent. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:30:00 -
[573] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Dani Dusette wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Them choosing to do bad things leads me to believe they are people who choose to do bad things.
It's not prejudice, it's cause and effect. That is like saying you know what kind of person an author is because you've read one of his stories. The book is fiction. All characters are fake. Unless it's a biography of some sort. The universe of EVE is fiction, but the people involved playing the game are real, making them non-fiction.
The author is real and is creating the story & characters, therefore, all authors, in order be ethical and moral people, should only be writing ethical and moral stories. Stories would get rather boring, if the authors wrote characters who acted responsibly, and had no conflict in their lives.
I think I'd quit reading the book around the 4th day of - "He went to work and brought donuts to his co-workers, who, being similarly responsible & upstanding people, had brought in coffee. They then proceeded to do their jobs in acceptable and friendly fashion until the designated end of the working period."
The point of all this is : If no one did interesting things in EVE, EVE would not be as interesting. Interesting is good.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16786
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:31:00 -
[574] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:No, because I see you (not even you necessarily just whomever this scenario applies to) choosing between choices. GǪin a game. You then pass this observation through some assumed, unproven, unexplained, completely made-up causal chain that straddles the magic circle and somehow connects in-game with out-of-game. You have seen nothing about the actual, real-life person. You are only applying your prejudices. Quote:The book is fiction. All characters are fake. Unless it's a biography of some sort. The universe of EVE is fiction, but the people involved playing the game are real, making them non-fiction. The people are, but those people are not in the game. The characters and actions and all the in-game content is as make-believe and fake as anything you'll find in a book. He seems to fail to understand that Eve is an RPG, and thus any persona projected via that medium is roleplaying, much as an actor who plays the bad guy in a film is roleplaying. By his standards the role that is being played is a reflection of their real life self. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4897
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:32:00 -
[575] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Regardless of what you think you're telling me, your action of justifying your choice to derive enjoyment at the expense of others tells me way more about your personality than the reason of, "it's allowed in EVE".
I have explained to you that I do not derive enjoyment at the expense of others. ignoring this fact that i've revealed to you makes you as a liar. Lying is a moral failing, so while you are spending time complaining about imagined moral failings of of others, you are hypocritically committing a far worse failing.
Quote: Yes, I get it. It's "allowed". Though the game itself even flags you as a "criminal", so even the game is operating with an understanding of wrong and right. And you're choosing to be a "criminal". You, sitting at your computer, is choosing to steal from people within a game, with the game itself telling you and everyone around you that you're a "criminal".
Scamming does not flag anyone as a criminal, only Ganking does. So by your definition, scamming is fine, but ganking is not.
As I've said, you are delusional because you can't seperate in game from out. An EVE criminal is....nothing.
Quote: Eve is the same as Poker? You heard it here folks. Whenever we log into EVE, CCP deals us 5 cards randomly out of a 52 card deck and then we wager who does and doesn't have the better hand.
Eve is 100% exactly the same as POKER.
I need to learn how to separate in game from out of game? Well, on the contrary; you need to learn to understand that the person making the choice to be mean to others on the computer is the same person who gets up out of your computer chair to check the fridge for snacks.
People have tried to be "mean" to me in game. I laughed, because at any time I can shut down my computer. I don't, because I know it;s just a game. I pride myself on avoiding ganks and scams though.
I feel sorry for you, because if your ego is so shallow that you have to believe in game actions make you 'better' than others out of game, as I said before, that's so wrong and says terrible things about anyone who could possibly think that. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
755
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:32:00 -
[576] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mandarine wrote:The magic circle analogy is quite amusing, considering many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. Do you have anything to support this claim? On many (many) occasions it has been stated by some in this community that they do what they do for "tears" or getting people to rage.
Now you can definitely ask me to show you this evidence (and I most certainly can and will), but you and I both know it's just a short distracting chase you'd be sending me after.
So I have to ask; besides trolling, why on earth would you ask for evidence of this? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19650
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:34:00 -
[577] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:You develop glee by witnessing your own self (i:e. not your character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which you have created by using a video game as a platform. Says who? He certainly didn't. He just said that he finds emotional overreactions over virtual and ultimately meaningless losses funny, and that some people tend to have that very reaction to what he does. You're injecting your own causation there.
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:On many (many) occasions it has been stated by some in this community that they do what they do for "tears" or getting people to rage.
Now you can definitely ask me to show you this evidence (and I most certainly can and will) Good. Please do. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2834
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:38:00 -
[578] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, I said that when they go into an overblown emotional reaction to having their pixels destroyed because they didn't bother to defend themselves...
that I laugh.
Yes, it's funny. It's funny to see an adult lose their freaking mind over a video game.
And this was exactly the reaction you were expecting: " My personal goal is to inflict losses on people. I am a PvP player. Highsec is broken, and doesn't let you do that to the degree that it should. This causes people to think that losses shouldn't happen. When I demonstrate otherwise to them, they give forth an outpouring of tears." You develop glee by witnessing your own self (i:e. not your character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which you have created by using a video game as a platform. Clearly, this is not within the magic circle.
Repeating yourself doesn't make it true.
Much like if I saw someone scream and howl at their television when Mario falls down the bottomless pit, I laugh when people get unreasonably upset when ships explode in a ship exploding game. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Dani Dusette
Sky Fighters
528
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:38:00 -
[579] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Dani Dusette wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Them choosing to do bad things leads me to believe they are people who choose to do bad things.
It's not prejudice, it's cause and effect. That is like saying you know what kind of person an author is because you've read one of his stories. The book is fiction. All characters are fake. Unless it's a biography of some sort. The universe of EVE is fiction, but the people involved playing the game are real, making them non-fiction. Ah but you see the author could have written a happy story, maybe a scary one, a sad one or even a disturbing one.
They chose one kind of story, one they enjoyed writing, and put it out in the public domain.
Now you claim that because you read stories and buy books that you somehow are in a position where you need to equate the relationship between the author and the kind of story he's written. You'll claim the genre, tone and characters all reveal what kind of person that author is. Then you'll refuse to buy the story because of the author, and will instead purchase the happy book in the next aisle because you've reasoned it's written by a "better person".
All the while though you'll keep glancing at that other, "lesser" author's work - wishing you could read it because it actually appeals to you more (you came looking for a scary book) but you just can't bring yourself to buy it because of your character-judgement of it's author.
Now that was just a creative way of explaining what you seem to be going through here in EVE.
Much like a work of fiction EVE is just a game. We do and express silly, scary or stupid things in games, just as we do in books. Why? Because it's just a game, the end result is not reality. It's a safe environment to play out our creativity. Thats what they're made for and it's what most people use them for. Sometimes though when people begin to replace parts of their lives with a game or 'story' then you find friction and hurt feelings.
Now if the end result of that book/game for someone IS reality, and they find that story or that game too unsettling then the problem is ultimately theirs. There's nothing inherently wrong with the book or it's author, the game or it's players, it's just not your taste.
So don't keep trying to force something down your own throat that makes you sick then blame the person who wrote it, or played it with you. Mizhir:-á "Dani Dusette, Best Dusette" Ensign (Ret.) Caldari Naval Militia-á The Wormhole Sisters of EVE
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4898
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:39:00 -
[580] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Dani Dusette wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:How they act towards me in the game is the only basis of comparison I have to make regarding their character. Them choosing to do bad things leads me to believe they are people who choose to do bad things.
It's not prejudice, it's cause and effect. That is like saying you know what kind of person an author is because you've read one of his stories. The book is fiction. All characters are fake. Unless it's a biography of some sort. The universe of EVE is fiction, but the people involved playing the game are real, making them non-fiction. The author is real and is creating the story & characters, therefore, all authors, in order be ethical and moral people, should only be writing ethical and moral stories. Stories would get rather boring, if the authors wrote characters who acted responsibly, and had no conflict in their lives. I think I'd quit reading the book around the 4th day of - "He went to work and brought donuts to his co-workers, who, being similarly responsible & upstanding people, had brought in coffee. They then proceeded to do their jobs in acceptable and friendly fashion until the designated end of the working period." The point of all this is : If no one did interesting things in EVE, EVE would not be as interesting. Interesting is good.
This is something the very worst "nice guy persona" types don't understand. Intellectually they think a totally peaceful, utopian world where everything is fair and no one is unpleaseant is desirable. They don't understand that if that ever happened in real life people would start jumping off bridges out of shear boredom lol. Stupid hippies lol
Even more so than real life, a game NEEDS action and drama and competiton and conflict. What is Grand Theft Auto without hoe stompin? What is CoD without firearms and peole made enough to war against each other. What is EVE without ganks and scams and goons and deceit and spying ect ect.
I find it odd that these 'good guys' are so adamantly opposed to the people who make EVE interesting. I don't do any of the stuff they complain about, but I get that EVE and every one game would suck if all we could do is join avatar-hands and sing kuumayyaa and crap. |
|
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
755
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:42:00 -
[581] - Quote
Tippia wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:On many (many) occasions it has been stated by some in this community that they do what they do for "tears" or getting people to rage.
Now you can definitely ask me to show you this evidence (and I most certainly can and will) Good. Please do. You are nothing but a troll. But nonetheless, as promised, here you go:
Remiel Pollard wrote:This is how it is. Griefers will grief because griefing is funny. If you tried it as well, instead of just complaining about being griefed, you would find it funny too. You would laugh, and it's a fact. I know, because I've been right where you are now.
From here. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:43:00 -
[582] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:But the real life person is the one choosing to make those actions within the game. He didn't have to make the choice to extort someone, he chose to. GǪand all he's doing is playing the game according to its rules. It tells us nothing about his character other than there is some slight likelihood that he likes to play games. Trying to translate those in-game actions into a judgement on real-life character requires the application of some assumed link between in-game and out-of-game. So all you end up doing is expressing an assumption-based prejudice. If you want to make it anything other than prejudice, you have to replace that assumption with something infinitely more solid and coherent.
Yes, he's playing the game in one of the many ways the game allows.
But he gets to choose if he wants to be a nice guy, or a bad guy.
Because he makes the choice to play as a bad guy in a realm where we get to choose who we want to be:
I'm allowed to make the connection that he is a person who enjoys making the choice to be a bad guy. He demonstrates to me that he enjoys being bad, so I'm allowed to conclude that he is a person that enjoys being bad.
The objective of this game isn't 100% necessarily "blow up everyone you see and be the best". The objective of the game is, well, whatever you want it to be.
Because of the ability to choose, we are allowed to form opinions on the choices we all choose to make. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19650
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:45:00 -
[583] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Yes, he's playing the game in one of the many ways the game allows. But he gets to choose if he wants to be a nice guy, or a bad guy. GǪwhich tells us absolutely nothing about the person.
Quote:I'm allowed to make the connection that he is a person who enjoys making the choice to be a bad guy. You're allowed to, but it is based on nothing but assumptions. This makes it a prejudice. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4898
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:48:00 -
[584] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:But the real life person is the one choosing to make those actions within the game. He didn't have to make the choice to extort someone, he chose to. GǪand all he's doing is playing the game according to its rules. It tells us nothing about his character other than there is some slight likelihood that he likes to play games. Trying to translate those in-game actions into a judgement on real-life character requires the application of some assumed link between in-game and out-of-game. So all you end up doing is expressing an assumption-based prejudice. If you want to make it anything other than prejudice, you have to replace that assumption with something infinitely more solid and coherent. Yes, he's playing the game in one of the many ways the game allows. But he gets to choose if he wants to be a nice guy, or a bad guy. Because he makes the choice to play as a bad guy in a realm where we get to choose who we want to be: I'm allowed to make the connection that he is a person who enjoys making the choice to be a bad guy. He demonstrates to me that he enjoys being bad, so I'm allowed to conclude that he is a person that enjoys being bad. The objective of this game isn't 100% necessarily "blow up everyone you see and be the best". The objective of the game is, well, whatever you want it to be. Because of the ability to choose, we are allowed to form opinions on the choices we all choose to make.
Yes you are, and you are allowed to be wrong. TIn game choices tell you nothing about a person. Forum posting on the other hand...... |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1543
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:49:00 -
[585] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:This is how it is. Griefers will grief because griefing is funny. If you tried it as well, instead of just complaining about being griefed, you would find it funny too. You would laugh, and it's a fact. I know, because I've been right where you are now. From here.
Love you Matrix but out of context is out of context.
Remiel Pollard wrote:My point is, no misery is being caused. It's not shifting the goal posts, it's a fact. If you're getting miserable over a video game, then it's you with the problem, not the person you blame for 'causing' it.
ED: Adding this as well.
The awesome person you see on the left wrote:I agree. I think this discussion is one of causality.
Gankers were around before tears is my bet.
In the way back days, gankers acted to pad their killboads, make a profit, that kind of thing.
Then one day, one guy that got ganked sent a very emotional response to a ganker that had just made his ship explode, filled with vitriol, real life threats, profanity, and all manner of other things one could define as bad.
In short, Tears very, very rarely cause ganking. Ganking can but does not have to cause tears.
How one responds to getting exploded is up to the person being exploded and not to the person that is doing the exploding. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:49:00 -
[586] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Much like if I saw someone scream and howl at their television when Mario falls down the bottomless pit, I laugh when people get unreasonably upset when ships explode in a ship exploding game.
I don-¦t find gamer rage entertaining, except when it-¦s fake, like Angry German Kid or Billyplaysgames. Do you enjoy seeing people rage IRL? why so?
Also, you base your highsec actions on the fact that you know that the players (i.e. not their characters) choosing to play in highsec are mostly unsuspecting, and will rage when ganked. This is why you gank them.
This makes no sense from an ingame point of view, since your pod pilot you are supposed to be impersonating will gain nothing from this, and mostly lose. However, it-¦s completely understandable from a RL point of view, since you enjoy the thought of some RL dude raging because of you (not your character).
You also enjoy giving a lesson on how not to play the sandbox without the PvP component.
This is all clearly outside the magic circle. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19651
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:54:00 -
[587] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:I don-¦t find gamer rage entertaining, except when it-¦s fake, like Angry German Kid or Billyplaysgames. Do you enjoy seeing people rage IRL? why so? It's a fairly standard comedic device: the juxtaposition and completely disproportionate disconnect between a minute cause and hugely inflated effect (or vice versa as the occasional subversion of a common trope).
Quote:Also, you base your highsec actions on the fact that you know that the players (i.e. not their characters) choosing to play in highsec are mostly unsuspecting, and will rage when ganked. This is why you gank them. What makes you say that? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2835
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 22:56:00 -
[588] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
Also, you base your highsec actions on the fact that you know that the players (i.e. not their characters) choosing to play in highsec are mostly unsuspecting, and will rage when ganked. This is why you gank them.
You're inferring something that isn't there. And you're doing it because your point falls apart without it. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1546
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:00:00 -
[589] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Also, you base your highsec actions on the fact that you know that the players (i.e. not their characters) choosing to play in highsec are mostly unsuspecting, and will rage when ganked. This is why you gank them.
You don't launch a sneak attack on someone expecting it.
If players were a little more "suspecting", they would find themselves ganked less often.
I know I can attest to that and I'll bet Jenn aSide can attest to it as well. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19654
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:03:00 -
[590] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:If players were a little more "suspecting", they would find themselves ganked less often.
I know I can attest to that and I'll bet Jenn aSide can attest to it as well. I'll attest to it too. 6+ years of suspecting pretty much everyone, and a total of 0 losses to ganks. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:05:00 -
[591] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Mandarine wrote:Also, you base your highsec actions on the fact that you know that the players (i.e. not their characters) choosing to play in highsec are mostly unsuspecting, and will rage when ganked. This is why you gank them. You don't launch a sneak attack on someone expecting it. If players were a little more "suspecting", they would find themselves ganked less often. I know I can attest to that and I'll bet Jenn aSide can attest to it as well.
People expect others to behave as they do. In a video game, people who want to have clean fun unconsciously expect everyone else also does. My, what a bunch of idiots!
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mandarine wrote:
Also, you base your highsec actions on the fact that you know that the players (i.e. not their characters) choosing to play in highsec are mostly unsuspecting, and will rage when ganked. This is why you gank them.
You're inferring something that isn't there. And you're doing it because your point falls apart without it.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:My personal goal is to inflict losses on people. I am a PvP player. Highsec is broken, and doesn't let you do that to the degree that it should. This causes people to think that losses shouldn't happen. When I demonstrate otherwise to them, they give forth an outpouring of tears.
I enjoy "winning" (by inflicting loss), every bit as much as I do "tears". But one is the specific product of someone having the wrong attitude, and it's not me. It's the people who think they can act like this is a single player game, and become unreasonably upset at having the truth pointed out to them. "
All those carebear reeducation endeavors clearly provide your RL self with glee at the thought of RL players raging, have nothing to do with reveries of your pod pilot doing stuff in New Eden, and clearly fall outside the magic circle.
You may say I-¦m saying the same stuff over and over: I am. This is called pedagogy. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1548
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:08:00 -
[592] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mandarine wrote:
Also, you base your highsec actions on the fact that you know that the players (i.e. not their characters) choosing to play in highsec are mostly unsuspecting, and will rage when ganked. This is why you gank them.
You're inferring something that isn't there. And you're doing it because your point falls apart without it. Kaarous Aldurald wrote:My personal goal is to inflict losses on people. I am a PvP player. Highsec is broken, and doesn't let you do that to the degree that it should. This causes people to think that losses shouldn't happen. When I demonstrate otherwise to them, they give forth an outpouring of tears.
I enjoy "winning" (by inflicting loss), every bit as much as I do "tears". But one is the specific product of someone having the wrong attitude, and it's not me. It's the people who think they can act like this is a single player game, and become unreasonably upset at having the truth pointed out to them. " All those carebear reeducation endeavors clearly provide your RL self with glee at the thought of RL players raging, have nothing to do with reveries of your pod pilot doing stuff in New Eden, and clearly fall outside the magic circle. You may say I-¦m saying the same stuff over and over: I am. This is called pedagogy.
I'm starting to think that you fell out of the magic circle.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19654
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:10:00 -
[593] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:All those carebear reeducation endeavors clearly provide your RL self with glee at the thought of RL players raging, have nothing to do with reveries of your pod pilot doing stuff in New Eden, and clearly fall outside the magic circle. More to the point, they are not his motivation for ganking them. That's just something you've injected because you wish it to be true so you can justify your accusations to yourself.
Quote:You may say I-¦m saying the same stuff over and over: I am. This is called pedagogy. It's not really pedagogy if it's all made up since you're not explaining reality to anyone. It's more like propaganda at that point. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:12:00 -
[594] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Divine Entervention]Yes, he's playing the game in one of the many ways the game allows. But he gets to choose if he wants to be a nice guy, or a bad guy. GǪwhich tells us absolutely nothing about the person.
[quote]
"Tippia responds to Divine Entervention."
You have chosen, in a realm where you get to make choices, that you will respond to me on these forums.
These forums are on the internet. EVE is also on the internet.
Now, because you have chosen to respond to me, I am allowed to classify you as someone who "responds to Divine Entervention".
It's proven. You have made a choice, and because of that choice I'm able to come to a conclusion: You respond to me.
Based on your logic, I'm not allowed to classify you as someone who chooses to respond to me. Because this is the internet, it's not real.
Though, you the person, are making the choice to respond to my person.
One realm, you'll allow conclusions based on choice, in another you will not.
You sir, have something inside of your mind that allows you to construct seperations between your actions and your self.
Everything you choose to do, even respond to me, even blow up a miner in high sec, is you making that choice. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16787
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:13:00 -
[595] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:You don't launch a sneak attack on someone expecting it. If players were a little more "suspecting", they would find themselves ganked less often. I know I can attest to that and I'll bet Jenn aSide can attest to it as well. By rights you, me and Jenn should be amongst the people complaining about gankers and wardecs in Eve, we are what is colloquially known as Carebears because of our non PvP playstyle. But we're not, because we actually play Eve fully expecting them, and are prepared for them.
Eve is a PvP game, I learnt that within my 1st month. I find it amusing that people are shocked and outraged when PvP happens to them, in a PvP game.
As for the forums being hostile, the forums are part of the metagame, which is as important and as much part of the game as flying a spaceship or trading your way to billions. The forums are a PvP environment, although here it's a battle of words and wits, and some people are woefully equipped with both.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19655
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:16:00 -
[596] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Based on your logic, I'm not allowed to classify you as someone who chooses to respond to me. Because this is the internet, it's not real. GǪexcept, of course, that that's not my logic, but rather something you just made up.
Quote:One realm, you'll allow conclusions based on choice, in another you will not. You're allowed to do it in both. You're just not allowed to transpose one into the other without a clear and proven pattern of how such transpositions are made. The problem is that you have no such pattern GÇö only assumptions. All you're doing is making prejudiced judgements based on assumptions. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1550
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:17:00 -
[597] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:People expect others to behave as they do. In a video game, people who want to have clean fun unconsciously expect everyone else also does. My, what a bunch of idiots!
Well there is the problem. You don't want to have to be "suspecting". You want good clean fun.
I have good clean fun in the game or I wouldn't be playing it.
If you're not having good clean fun in the game, don't play it.
Why in the name of all that is good and pure in the universe would you play a game that isn't fun?
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1550
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:24:00 -
[598] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:You don't launch a sneak attack on someone expecting it. If players were a little more "suspecting", they would find themselves ganked less often. I know I can attest to that and I'll bet Jenn aSide can attest to it as well. By rights you, me and Jenn should be amongst the people complaining about gankers and wardecs in Eve, we are what is colloquially known as Carebears because of our non PvP playstyle. But we're not, because we actually play Eve fully expecting them, and are prepared for them.
Gankers be ganking. I don't think any less of them as people. I've seen the Eve Mails these people send to the gankers. It is abhorrent. My play style is no better or worse than someone else's. If someone wants to AFK in a belt and fit for max yield in high sec, good for them. But don't come crying here it someone lights your ass up because you thought you were safe.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:As for the forums being hostile, the forums are part of the metagame, which is as important and as much part of the game as flying a spaceship or trading your way to billions. The forums are a PvP environment, although here it's a battle of words and wits, and some people are woefully equipped with either.
It's like having a conversation with a 9 year old sometimes and their lack of intellect and critical thinking gives rise to a deluge of stupidity. It's like a parade of halfwits some days.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:25:00 -
[599] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Mandarine wrote:People expect others to behave as they do. In a video game, people who want to have clean fun unconsciously expect everyone else also does. My, what a bunch of idiots! Well there is the problem. You don't want to have to be "suspecting". You want good clean fun. I have good clean fun in the game or I wouldn't be playing it. If you're not having good clean fun in the game, don't play it. Why in the name of all that is good and pure in the universe would you play a game that isn't fun?
Personally, I'd find a game with no risk, no danger of losing, no conflict & no goals to be very boring.
There are games out there that do not have conflict, or a danger of losing, but they normally have some sort of goal to achieve, or they have some sort of other open ended purpose (Minecraft, outside of survival mode, for instance).
EVE, not having a goal or end game, depends on player interaction to create conflict & interesting circumstances. I don't consider that to be a bad thing. This game needs villians & heroes. And which are which depend completely on your in-game perspective. It doesn't make the people taking those roles good or bad, it just makes them players of EVE. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:29:00 -
[600] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Based on your logic, I'm not allowed to classify you as someone who chooses to respond to me. Because this is the internet, it's not real. GǪexcept, of course, that that's not my logic, but rather something you just made up. Quote:One realm, you'll allow conclusions based on choice, in another you will not. You're allowed to do it in both. You're just not allowed to transpose one into the other without a clear and proven pattern of how such transpositions are made. The problem is that you have no such pattern GÇö only assumptions. All you're doing is making prejudiced judgements based on assumptions.
A friend is waiting to pick me up right now. He is outside waiting, I just got his text. I can sit here and continue to speak with you about how you are not the one who chooses to make your choices.
But that would be inconsiderate of me, to put my desire to correct you above that of someone outside spending his time waiting for me.
I will make a choice, a choice that ultimately is better for everyone. To stop highlighting the flaws in your mental process, and to go oblige my friend who is going out of his way to be friendly with me.
Enjoy your night. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19657
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:31:00 -
[601] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:To stop highlighting the flaws in your mental process You have to start before you can stop. Since you have to rely on abuse rather than actual argumentation, starting is slipping ever farther away. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3136
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:36:00 -
[602] - Quote
Tippia's posts give me butterflies. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
284
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:45:00 -
[603] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
You are expecting a level of empathy with those who get caught off-guard and suffer a temporary setback in this game that is plain ridiculous.
The emotional repercussions such a setback has are a product of your character and your personal attachment to and identification with your internet space possessions. They can, have and will be dismissed as laughable if they are perceived to be disproportional.
Self-righteously proclaiming yourself morally superior for choosing not to play this game is merely pretentious.
Your claims to moral authority will not be respected within the context of this game nor outside of it. You do not have a better grasp on some fictional universal truth in these matters than anyone else here.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16789
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:50:00 -
[604] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: You are expecting a level of empathy with those who get caught off-guard and suffer a temporary setback in this game that is plain ridiculous. The emotional repercussions such a setback has are a product of your character and your personal attachment to and identification with your internet space possessions. They can, have and will be dismissed as laughable if they are perceived to be disproportional. Self-righteously proclaiming yourself morally superior for choosing not to play this game is merely pretentious. Your claims to moral authority will not be respected within the context of this game nor outside of it. You do not have a better grasp on some fictional universal truth in these matters than anyone else here. Of course he does, he's The Great I Am
The forum seriously needs a sarcasm tag |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
63
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:56:00 -
[605] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
A friend is waiting to pick me up right now. He is outside waiting, I just got his text. I can sit here and continue to speak with you about how you are not the one who chooses to make your choices.
But that would be inconsiderate of me, to put my desire to correct you above that of someone outside spending his time waiting for me.
I will make a choice, a choice that ultimately is better for everyone. To stop highlighting the flaws in your mental process, and to go oblige my friend who is going out of his way to be friendly with me.
Enjoy your night.
Have a wonderful evening!
You have inspired me... I shall create a novel, which will have no character conflict, no disagreements, and no events out of what are expected of any sort happen in it at all. The characters & society it is set in will all be ethically outstanding, completely moral & content with their lives. I'm sure it will be a riveting read.
(Sarcasm, though it would be a challenge to write such a thing & make it at all interesting... Hmmm.) |
Ivan Krividus
Straightedge and Compass Industrial The Crimson Tower
151
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 23:59:00 -
[606] - Quote
If you leave GD you will find lots of nice people |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
229
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 00:46:00 -
[607] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: But he gets to choose if he wants to be a good guy, or a bad guy.
Fie on goodness
I think the next time an ISD steps in, this thread is not getting up again. |
Mourn LeBlade
Jupiter Roughriders
121
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 00:51:00 -
[608] - Quote
I think a lot of the negative forum ***** are players (always alts too) that have a definite prejudiced narrative of what they feel Eve should be. They want everyone to think and act as they do, and if you do not align with their fascist viewpoint, they will be the first to flame your post in an effort to derail anything constructive.
Also, the rules for "trolling" are extremely subjective, along the lines of....if the post mainly just "hurts feelings" then it must be trolling. So what these ***** do is report any post they don't like to their favorite Moderator with the same viewpoint, and they deem the thread a "troll" and lock it. That way they can suppress ideas they don't like. These forums definitely do not represent a free press, for that you'll have to look elsewhere. LTCOL LeBlade 177 Division Live Free or Die |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
229
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:04:00 -
[609] - Quote
Mourn LeBlade wrote:I think a lot of the negative forum ***** are players (always alts too) that have a definite prejudiced narrative of what they feel Eve should be. They want everyone to think and act as they do, and if you do not align with their fascist viewpoint, they will be the first to flame your post in an effort to derail anything constructive.
Also, the rules for "trolling" are extremely subjective, along the lines of....if the post mainly just "hurts feelings" then it must be trolling. So what these ***** do is report any post they don't like to their favorite Moderator with the same viewpoint, and they deem the thread a "troll" and lock it. That way they can suppress ideas they don't like. These forums definitely do not represent a free press, for that you'll have to look elsewhere. Ugh... so much terrible logic.
If a post is "hurting feelings" and gets reported, it's 95% or better chance it's the person who submitted a terrible idea and is now offended that is doing the reporting on a post that's negative to his idea. The people ripping the idea don't need to report a bad idea. Cause it's bad and will never be implemented anyway typically, and we can generally wreck a bad idea with a series of explanations based on actual gameplay.
Second, ISDs are a nutty bunch prone to random spasms of locking, and reporting posts you don't like just cause you don't like them is like trying to use carpet bombing to burn a slash pile. You want them nowhere near any thread you are active in 99% of the time.
Your assumption that everyone is an alt is wonky as hell too. See that Native Freshfood tag? That noobtag which you assume means alt? It means not a damn thing, except that the corp with whom I have an app in with lets new applications stew for days/weeks while they pick apart everything about them from their killboard to which direction they hang.
I'm not an alt, and you really should not assume everyone is on the basis that you think people have a need to hide their opinions behind alts. This is my main, and if I have a problem with your idea, I'll tell it to you with my main.
P.S: Free press, don't be silly. A truly free press would have no ISD's. You would be capable of posting whatever you wanted without interference, and I would be free to truly rip into your ideas without even the common courtesy I still extend to people who can't understand how to use a search function. |
Mourn LeBlade
Jupiter Roughriders
121
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:13:00 -
[610] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Mourn LeBlade wrote:I think a lot of the negative forum ***** are players (always alts too) that have a definite prejudiced narrative of what they feel Eve should be. They want everyone to think and act as they do, and if you do not align with their fascist viewpoint, they will be the first to flame your post in an effort to derail anything constructive.
Also, the rules for "trolling" are extremely subjective, along the lines of....if the post mainly just "hurts feelings" then it must be trolling. So what these ***** do is report any post they don't like to their favorite Moderator with the same viewpoint, and they deem the thread a "troll" and lock it. That way they can suppress ideas they don't like. These forums definitely do not represent a free press, for that you'll have to look elsewhere. Ugh... so much terrible logic. If a post is "hurting feelings" and gets reported, it's 95% or better chance it's the person who submitted a terrible idea and is now offended that is doing the reporting on a post that's negative to his idea. The people ripping the idea don't need to report a bad idea. Cause it's bad and will never be implemented anyway typically, and we can generally wreck a bad idea with a series of explanations based on actual gameplay. Second, ISDs are a nutty bunch prone to random spasms of locking, and reporting posts you don't like just cause you don't like them is like trying to use carpet bombing to burn a slash pile. You want them nowhere near any thread you are active in 99% of the time. Your assumption that everyone is an alt is wonky as hell too. See that Native Freshfood tag? That noobtag which you assume means alt? It means not a damn thing, except that the corp with whom I have an app in with lets new applications stew for days/weeks while they pick apart everything about them from their killboard to which direction they hang. I'm not an alt, and you really should not assume everyone is on the basis that you think people have a need to hide their opinions behind alts. This is my main, and if I have a problem with your idea, I'll tell it to you with my main. P.S: Free press, don't be silly. A truly free press would have no ISD's. You would be capable of posting whatever you wanted without interference, and I would be free to truly rip into your ideas without even the common courtesy I still extend to people who can't understand how to use a search function.
To the OP - as you can see I reliably got the accused archetype to reply negatively to my post, literally within minutes. Now we wait for the lock...
LTCOL LeBlade 177 Division Live Free or Die |
|
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
230
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:18:00 -
[611] - Quote
Mourn LeBlade wrote:
To the OP - as you can see I reliably got the accused archetype to reply negatively to my post, literally within minutes. Now we wait for the lock...
Call me a fascist *****, I respond without saying anything negative about you personally, and I'm the troll.
Go figure. \o/ w/e |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1559
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:19:00 -
[612] - Quote
Mourn LeBlade wrote:Anhenka wrote:Mourn LeBlade wrote:I think a lot of the negative forum ***** are players (always alts too) that have a definite prejudiced narrative of what they feel Eve should be. They want everyone to think and act as they do, and if you do not align with their fascist viewpoint, they will be the first to flame your post in an effort to derail anything constructive.
Also, the rules for "trolling" are extremely subjective, along the lines of....if the post mainly just "hurts feelings" then it must be trolling. So what these ***** do is report any post they don't like to their favorite Moderator with the same viewpoint, and they deem the thread a "troll" and lock it. That way they can suppress ideas they don't like. These forums definitely do not represent a free press, for that you'll have to look elsewhere. Ugh... so much terrible logic. If a post is "hurting feelings" and gets reported, it's 95% or better chance it's the person who submitted a terrible idea and is now offended that is doing the reporting on a post that's negative to his idea. The people ripping the idea don't need to report a bad idea. Cause it's bad and will never be implemented anyway typically, and we can generally wreck a bad idea with a series of explanations based on actual gameplay. Second, ISDs are a nutty bunch prone to random spasms of locking, and reporting posts you don't like just cause you don't like them is like trying to use carpet bombing to burn a slash pile. You want them nowhere near any thread you are active in 99% of the time. Your assumption that everyone is an alt is wonky as hell too. See that Native Freshfood tag? That noobtag which you assume means alt? It means not a damn thing, except that the corp with whom I have an app in with lets new applications stew for days/weeks while they pick apart everything about them from their killboard to which direction they hang. I'm not an alt, and you really should not assume everyone is on the basis that you think people have a need to hide their opinions behind alts. This is my main, and if I have a problem with your idea, I'll tell it to you with my main. P.S: Free press, don't be silly. A truly free press would have no ISD's. You would be capable of posting whatever you wanted without interference, and I would be free to truly rip into your ideas without even the common courtesy I still extend to people who can't understand how to use a search function. To the OP - as you can see I reliably got the accused archetype to reply negatively to my post, literally within minutes. Now we wait for the lock...
People are going to reply negatively to a load of crap. Not because they're negative but because it's a load of crap.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
64
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:23:00 -
[613] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:
People are going to reply negatively to a load of crap. Not because they're negative but because it's a load of crap.
Well, I don't think it's as bad as it was last time... If this repeats again, than it might be positively civil. |
Mourn LeBlade
Jupiter Roughriders
121
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:29:00 -
[614] - Quote
It's both sad and funny that there is so much anger, arrogance, and hostility in a thread concerned about the same.
Perhaps there is no hope for the OP's concerns. LTCOL LeBlade 177 Division Live Free or Die |
Mourn LeBlade
Jupiter Roughriders
121
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:42:00 -
[615] - Quote
Also @ the OP, if you go to the thread Collisions, you'll see many great examples of angry and arrogant posters tearing up a thread that is a legitimate idea. You can see that anyone that agrees with the OP is hammered immediately, even by people tearing apart grammar. This is how the few try to control the many. These people you take issue with are actually worse than trolls, because they successfully set the agenda for these forums by suppressing any and all new ideas. They justify their bias and hatred by simply dismissing all they disagree with as "stupid." I doubt it would be appropriate for me to suggest other forums, but in my opinion the "official" forums attract the worst behavior, perhaps because that's where the sociopaths attempt to control the Devs and thereby enforce their game narrative. You are correct that a new player has virtually no chance in constructive feedback on these forums. LTCOL LeBlade 177 Division Live Free or Die |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19665
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:55:00 -
[616] - Quote
Mourn LeBlade wrote:Also @ the OP, if you go to the thread Collisions, you'll see many great examples of angry and arrogant posters tearing up a thread that is GǪso old, tired, pointless and redundant that it has been answered many many many times (including in the forum where it should have been posted to begin with). The thread is being torn up because of the OP's failure to search, failure to post in the right section, and failure to bring anything remotely new to the table.
It gets no constructive feedback because it was never a constructive thread to begin with GÇö it just pointlessly clogs up the place. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4899
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:56:00 -
[617] - Quote
Mourn LeBlade wrote:I think a lot of the negative forum ***** are players (always alts too) that have a definite prejudiced narrative of what they feel Eve should be. They want everyone to think and act as they do, and if you do not align with their fascist viewpoint, they will be the first to flame your post in an effort to derail anything constructive.
Also, the rules for "trolling" are extremely subjective, along the lines of....if the post mainly just "hurts feelings" then it must be trolling. So what these ***** do is report any post they don't like to their favorite Moderator with the same viewpoint, and they deem the thread a "troll" and lock it. That way they can suppress ideas they don't like. These forums definitely do not represent a free press, for that you'll have to look elsewhere.
Beautiful. This guy is the poster child for why the internet and this forum is the way it is. Mortal insult ("fascist") ,general incvil tone and tinfoil hattery, then icing the cake by admitting he's been banned (unlike the people he's claiming are 'trolls') and blaming it on some deep moderator/troll conspiracy instead of taking responsibility for his own actions.
This is what I and people like me end up replying to, because it's so horrible that it would be a SIN to not challenge these....very special people who label US trolls while they troll us. |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
231
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:56:00 -
[618] - Quote
Mourn LeBlade wrote:It's both sad and funny that there is so much anger, arrogance, and hostility in a thread concerned about the same.
Perhaps there is no hope for the OP's concerns.
Mourn, when the OP is a voice of reason, we will treat him with respect and with a reasonable discussion. Many of the threads he posted were treated without hostility, like his suggestion to give Rohk 8 unbonused missile slots. Although that one was treated with much bafflement, there was no hostility.
Keep in mind though that this current thread was started after he arbitrarily posted rants threads demanding buffs/nerfs to ship without backing them up, while including gems like the following. Needless to say, statements like the following are about tailor designed to annoy every single F&I poster. Unsurprisingly, he caught **** for them, then got mad at peoples "negativity"
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:Anyone who opposes the talos being nerfed, with out some serious counter point, is just angry because they like how broken it is.
I'd I'll also say nerf the talos, because wtf (has most cargo capacity, most drones, no penalties and the best cruiser bonuses - seriously who the fk designed it and how did they get away with it?
I don't agree. You're just making excuses. That there is a long winded way around doesn't mean that this thread is any less valid.
TLDR: The people getting negative comments are not saints by default, not or the people being negative automatically devils. There is plenty of blame to go around for all parties involved. Being courteous will get politeness in return. Not doing so and you end up like the OP. Welcome to the EVE forums. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1564
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 01:58:00 -
[619] - Quote
Mourn LeBlade wrote:Also @ the OP, if you go to the thread Collisions, you'll see many great examples of angry and arrogant posters tearing up a thread that is a legitimate idea. You can see that anyone that agrees with the OP is hammered immediately, even by people tearing apart grammar. This is how the few try to control the many. These people you take issue with are actually worse than trolls, because they successfully set the agenda for these forums by suppressing any and all new ideas. They justify their bias and hatred by simply dismissing all they disagree with as "stupid." I doubt it would be appropriate for me to suggest other forums, but in my opinion the "official" forums attract the worst behavior, perhaps because that's where the sociopaths attempt to control the Devs and thereby enforce their game narrative. You are correct that a new player has virtually no chance in constructive feedback on these forums.
Here's a post from a new player that was received very warmly overall by this community.
Here is the proper forum for post such as this.
Just like this one, this one, and and various posts in other threads.
And yet people keep throwing this idea out like they just thought of it. Even if they did, should they be encouraged to start a new thread rather than contributing to one of the already existing ones?
Furthermore,
Quote:16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.
Source
Obviously, I can't speak for everyone in the community, but this is why I generally get negative and hostile. Follow the rules and if you're going to post a new idea that has not already been posted you'd better make it good. If it's a stupid idea, the community is going to let you know it's stupid. That's what we're here for.
Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are negative and hostile. They very well may be negative and hostile for the same reason I am negative and hostile. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
440
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:03:00 -
[620] - Quote
Mourn LeBlade wrote:Also @ the OP, if you go to the thread Collisions, you'll see many great examples of angry and arrogant posters tearing up a thread that is a legitimate idea. Perhaps, but it's also possible that the strong language used in forums arises because most of what we take for granted in communication is lost in the instant written reply.
Tone, inflection, expression and body language which can make even a single word have different meaning or emphasis are all absent here.
As a result, the strength purely of the words written has to convey so much more.
While it seems that writers are rude and negative, I often put it down to them trying to get across a view that in other forms of communication they would be able to convey more simply and in a manner that we all use every day.
It's easy to interpret these replies as anger and negativity because as the reader, the interpretation is totally up to us without any other visual or auditory clues about the actual tone intended.
The reality from the writers perspective could be totally different, which I think we all need to recognize when we read posts in the forum.
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1564
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:06:00 -
[621] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Mourn LeBlade wrote:Also @ the OP, if you go to the thread Collisions, you'll see many great examples of angry and arrogant posters tearing up a thread that is a legitimate idea. Perhaps, but it's also possible that the strong language used in forums arises because most of what we take for granted in communication is lost in the instant written reply. Tone, inflection, expression and body language which can make even a single word have different meaning or emphasis are all absent here. As a result, the strength purely of the words written has to convey so much more. While it seems that writers are rude and negative, I often put it down to them trying to get across a view that in other forms of communication they would be able to convey more simply and in a manner that we all use every day. It's easy to interpret these replies as anger and negativity because as the reader, the interpretation is totally up to us without any other visual or auditory clues about the actual tone intended. The reality from the writers perspective could be totally different, which I think we all need to recognize when we read posts in the forum.
Man you should see what I can do with a big whiteboard.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4698
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:12:00 -
[622] - Quote
Agondray wrote:It's called talking crap in real life is dangerous
lmao, not really.
This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
440
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:16:00 -
[623] - Quote
Separate to my previous reply, sometimes it's simply a matter that:
1. The same thing is posted over and over and over without first using the search function and posting in an already existing thread
2. CCP has already published an official response to an issue but because the search function isn't used a new topic is started
In those cases, the negativity isn't really in the replies, but it starts from the failure of an OP to take even a short period of time to ensure that "New Topic" really does need to be pressed. In most cases it only serves to disjoint and rehash on arguments.
So then, gtfo (in the stronest and most negative possible way). eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:31:00 -
[624] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:To stop highlighting the flaws in your mental process You have to start before you can stop. Since you have to rely on abuse rather than actual argumentation, starting is slipping ever farther away.
Incorrect. I've successfully demonstrated through analogies that you are you, despite you pretending to be someone else.
if you sit at your computer and role-play a criminal, that is you choosing to role-play a criminal.
Should you not be allowed to role-play a criminal, since the game allows you to? Of course you should be able to do it, you can do whatever you.
But, since you're making the choice, I get to label you as someone who chooses to be a criminal. Because you choose to do it. |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
231
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:35:00 -
[625] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: ~attempt to restart pointless argument from hours ago ~
Lancelot, let's stick to the current discussion and not get this thread bogged down in another round of you insisting everyone is scum and us futilely trying to explain anything to you that you won't listen to.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:42:00 -
[626] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: ~attempt to restart pointless argument from hours ago ~ Lancelot, let's stick to the current discussion and not get this thread bogged down in another round of you insisting everyone is scum and us futilely trying to explain anything to you that you won't listen to.
I'm stating how I feel about a subject that was directed towards me specifically.
If you wish to argue it or not is your choice. You can choose to not participate if you so desire. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
442
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:45:00 -
[627] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Lancelot, let's stick to the current discussion and not get this thread bogged down in another round of you insisting everyone is scum and us futilely trying to explain anything to you that you won't listen to.
Best approach is to probably just ignore the attempts to rehash the same irrelevant thing over again. If we just let them slide, there'll be no more food. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 02:47:00 -
[628] - Quote
Also, along the same lines of choosing to be a criminal in game being an association of potential regarding choices to be a criminal out of game:
As a male, if you choose to play a female character, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a woman. Do you pretend you're a woman offline? I don't know. I can't know. But I do not that some times, at least while on your computer, you pretend to be a woman. Meaning potentially, since I cannot know if you do so offline as well, that at least from what you've demonstrated online, you pretend you're a girl. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2623
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:07:00 -
[629] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Also, along the same lines of choosing to be a criminal in game being an association of potential regarding choices to be a criminal out of game:
As a male, if you choose to play a female character, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a woman. Do you pretend you're a woman offline? I don't know. I can't know. But I do not that some times, at least while on your computer, you pretend to be a woman. Meaning potentially, since I cannot know if you do so offline as well, that at least from what you've demonstrated online, you pretend you're a girl.
You say that like it's a bad thing. Transphobic much? You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:32:00 -
[630] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Also, along the same lines of choosing to be a criminal in game being an association of potential regarding choices to be a criminal out of game:
As a male, if you choose to play a female character, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a woman. Do you pretend you're a woman offline? I don't know. I can't know. But I do not that some times, at least while on your computer, you pretend to be a woman. Meaning potentially, since I cannot know if you do so offline as well, that at least from what you've demonstrated online, you pretend you're a girl. You say that like it's a bad thing. Transphobic much?
Show me where on these forums I've ever said a man pretending to be a woman was a bad thing. I don't understand what your issue with me is but I hope you get over it. I've seen you post in different forums on different topics and I'm not following you around insulting you. |
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
443
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:38:00 -
[631] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:As a male, if you choose to play a female character, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a woman.
Oh I don't know, it's no more realistic than assuming if you choose to be a forum hardcase, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a man.
I don't think either is realistic really. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:39:00 -
[632] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:As a male, if you choose to play a female character, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a woman. Oh I don't know, it's no more realistic than assuming if you choose to be a forum hardcase, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a man. I don't think either is realistic really.
So we're in agreement that we're allowed to make judgements based on our observations.
to you, I pretend I'm a man.
To me, you support people stealing and lying to each other. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:41:00 -
[633] - Quote
I like to pretend that people don't argue for the sake of arguing. Make believe is fun! |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2623
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:42:00 -
[634] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:As a male, if you choose to play a female character, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a woman. Oh I don't know, it's no more realistic than assuming if you choose to be a forum hardcase, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a man. I don't think either is realistic really. So we're in agreement that we're allowed to make judgements based on our observations. to you, I pretend I'm a man. To me, you support people stealing and lying to each other.
Of course I agree with that, however, you make up most of your observations, so your conclusions are flawed. See, you don't observe the behaviour of anyone in real life, you just make circumstantial correlations. That's not observation. I, on the other hand, actually observed you make a transphobic comment. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
443
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:43:00 -
[635] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:So we're in agreement that we're allowed to make judgements based on our observations.
to you, I pretend I'm a man.
To me, you support people stealing and lying to each other.
That was just a relevant quote. Whether you feel the comparison to being a forum hardcase applies to you or not is for you to judge.
I didn't make any specific judgment.
Yeah sure to the rest. Whatever knocks your socks off. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:51:00 -
[636] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:As a male, if you choose to play a female character, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a woman. Oh I don't know, it's no more realistic than assuming if you choose to be a forum hardcase, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a man. I don't think either is realistic really. So we're in agreement that we're allowed to make judgements based on our observations. to you, I pretend I'm a man. To me, you support people stealing and lying to each other. Of course I agree with that, however, you make up most of your observations, so your conclusions are flawed. See, you don't observe the behaviour of anyone in real life, you just make circumstantial correlations. That's not observation. I, on the other hand, actually observed you make a transphobic comment.
If I see someone attack and kill a miner, or if I see someone join a corporation, lie to the director saying he wishes to help and asks for and is given roles, and then he takes over the corporation by removing every one else's roles and calling a CEO vote, and attempting to extort isk from the people he's stolen from, that is not me making up an observation.
That is a real observation. Now based off of witnessing an action like that, I am allowed to conclude that the person who chose to lie and steal is a person who chooses to lie and steal. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
443
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:53:00 -
[637] - Quote
Seems we are off topic again. My bad.
Sorry everyone. No more food from me. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:54:00 -
[638] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:So we're in agreement that we're allowed to make judgements based on our observations.
to you, I pretend I'm a man.
To me, you support people stealing and lying to each other. That was just a relevant quote. Whether you feel the comparison to being a forum hardcase applies to you or not is for you to judge. I didn't make any specific judgment. Yeah sure to the rest. Whatever knocks your socks off.
Cool thanks man, glad we're on the same page. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2623
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 03:59:00 -
[639] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:As a male, if you choose to play a female character, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a woman. Oh I don't know, it's no more realistic than assuming if you choose to be a forum hardcase, that is justifiable proof that at some times, you like to pretend you are a man. I don't think either is realistic really. So we're in agreement that we're allowed to make judgements based on our observations. to you, I pretend I'm a man. To me, you support people stealing and lying to each other. Of course I agree with that, however, you make up most of your observations, so your conclusions are flawed. See, you don't observe the behaviour of anyone in real life, you just make circumstantial correlations. That's not observation. I, on the other hand, actually observed you make a transphobic comment. If I see someone join a corporation, lie to the director saying he wishes to help and asks for and is given roles, and then he takes over the corporation by removing every one else's roles and calling a CEO vote, and attempting to extort isk from the people he's stolen from, that is not me making up an observation. That is a real observation. Now based off of witnessing an action like that, I am allowed to conclude that the person who chose to lie and steal is a person who chooses to lie and steal.
But you didn't observe them doing this in reality, hence you are basing your conclusions of their character in reality on circumstantial correlations. I said that. I said that in very plain language. So plain that the only way for you to miss it was to ignore it. Based on that observation, I would say you're a pretty ignorant person.
You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 04:12:00 -
[640] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
But you didn't observe them doing this in reality, hence you are basing your conclusions of their character in reality on circumstantial correlations. I said that. I said that in very plain language. So plain that the only way for you to miss it was to ignore it. Based on that observation, I would say you're a pretty ignorant person.
In reality, that guy sat on his computer and stole from people.
He did steal.
The only point of contention is if anything he stole was of real value. But he did lie and steal. Which lets me believe that judging since he chooses to lie and steal from other people, that he is a person capable of choosing to lie and steal from other people.
CCP just locked this thread and deleted alot of posts because people were insulting other people, which is against the forum rules. I do not wish for this thread to be locked because people choose to ignore the rules and insult each other. Once was bad enough, lets not let it happen again.
Please stop insulting me.
Thanks. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 04:14:00 -
[641] - Quote
Is what he stole real? No.
Is his act of stealing it real? Yes it is.
Also, we get to choose what we attribute value to. I may not care if I lose a merlin, but I may care when I lose a griffin. I get to pick and choose where my values lie, just like you. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
447
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 04:17:00 -
[642] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:But you didn't observe them doing this in reality, hence you are basing your conclusions of their character in reality on circumstantial correlations. I said that. I said that in very plain language. So plain that the only way for you to miss it was to ignore it. Based on that observation, I would say you're a pretty ignorant person.
Wrong topic Remiel. It's just going to stay off topic while any of us respond.
Maybe it should just be contained in it's own thread. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Gyromite
Stronghold of the Condemned The Bloc
28
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 06:47:00 -
[643] - Quote
@ Divine Entervention: Hi, I'm a typical RPG thief class character, are my values in real life morally reprehensible?
My absolute love on Ultima Online was to be a thief, stealing was the bees knees back in the old days...
However to my utmost core I despise stealing in real life. Am I doomed as a person in real life to go to hell because I've stolen someones' pixel crack? |
Ai Shun
1144
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 06:53:00 -
[644] - Quote
Gyromite wrote:@ Divine Entervention: Hi, I'm a typical RPG thief class character, are my values in real life morally reprehensible?
Mate, please. We've had three good threads ruined by that discussion. All that will happen is he'll fill the thread with insults and arguments and go on and on without a real point. Don't go there again, please. If you really want to see what he has to say, use eve-search and read it there. Please.
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16830
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 06:55:00 -
[645] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Is what he stole real? No.
Is his act of stealing it real? Yes it is. For it to be stealing, wouldn't the owners need to be asked first if it actually was?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3054
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 06:59:00 -
[646] - Quote
I am spaceship.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
41
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 07:14:00 -
[647] - Quote
Gyromite wrote:@ Divine Entervention: Hi, I'm a typical RPG thief class character, are my values in real life morally reprehensible?
My absolute love on Ultima Online was to be a thief, stealing was the bees knees back in the old days...
However to my utmost core I despise stealing in real life. Am I doomed as a person in real life to go to hell because I've stolen someones' pixel crack?
Do you lie to people to gain their trust, then use their trust to stab them in the back then steal?
if so, then yes, you're a bad person. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
448
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 07:38:00 -
[648] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Mate, please. We've had three good threads ruined by that discussion. All that will happen is he'll fill the thread with insults and arguments and go on and on without a real point. Don't go there again, please. If you really want to see what he has to say, use eve-search and read it there. Please.
That one is one to encourage. He's a priest in real life.
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 07:58:00 -
[649] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote: Well there is the problem. You don't want to have to be "suspecting". You want good clean fun.
I have good clean fun in the game or I wouldn't be playing it.
If you're not having good clean fun in the game, don't play it.
Why in the name of all that is good and pure in the universe would you play a game that isn't fun?
I find EvE to be fun, because I have fun play pretending being a space pilot, as should be, in a MMORPG involving space pilots.
This is when it-¦s good clean fun, when players impersonate the character they created. This is within the magic circle, to use to the bone this analogy.
In the course of this impersonating, they can do whatever they want, but it has to make sense in, and be related to, the context of the play-pretend universe, otherwise it-¦s immersion-breaking, and the fun is reduced for everybody. Of course, this doesn-¦t apply to people considering that EvE is made of chatrooms called systems.
Now, let-¦s adress gankers, scammers, etc
Victoria Thorne wrote:
Personally, I'd find a game with no risk, no danger of losing, no conflict & no goals to be very boring.
There are games out there that do not have conflict, or a danger of losing, but they normally have some sort of goal to achieve, or they have some sort of other open ended purpose (Minecraft, outside of survival mode, for instance).
EVE, not having a goal or end game, depends on player interaction to create conflict & interesting circumstances. I don't consider that to be a bad thing. This game needs villians & heroes. And which are which depend completely on your in-game perspective. It doesn't make the people taking those roles good or bad, it just makes them players of EVE.
A MMORPG in which there is virtual violence absolutely needs villains for it to have a narrative, nobody is saying that it should not.
Now,. where there is a point of disagreement, is on what constitutes a narrative, and what doesn-¦t. It is self-evident that gankers and many scammers are not out to create a narrative developing within the magic circle, even though some of their deeds are relayed by press and fora as part of the EvE story. But what those deeds really are, are players using an online game as a platform to revel in the joy of having humiliated someone accross the internet. They say it themselves, they like to harvest tears. They, being their out of game self, tears, being the out of game rage of others gamers (magic circle again, how does it work?)
They develop glee by witnessing their own RL selves (i:e. not their ingame character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe. Oppose this to the reveries of many gamers imagining their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game, and all under personas.
There is a category of player who enjoy the narrative, the ingame happenings, the play pretending, the imagining their character interacting in whatever way they choose in this sandbox universe. Those players know that EvE is a game, and they know that games are more fun when everybody is having fun, much like parties or sexual intercourse. This is basic human communication.
The other category of players does not care one bit about the narrative, nor the play pretending. What they most enjoy is being empowered by having made someone mad across the internet, and the characters involved or ingame circumstances are quite irrelevant. They get their kick by cherishing the picture of their own RL self causing distress to the RL self of somebody else.
This clearly does not fit any New Eden narrative I know of.
And concerning the negativity on this forum, it-¦s hardly surprising that this second category of players also use this forum as an online tool to lash at people in an attempt to get high on their subsequent rage. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 08:25:00 -
[650] - Quote
I am new here, so you may disregard my opinion, but I have to agree that it's outside the scope of gaming when people have the explicit goal of causing other, real people, pain.
But I do not think the majority of people, even those who talk about "harvesting tears" as you express it, are like that.
From the few weeks I've read these forums before deciding to sign up, I've come to the following conclusion: I think it is entirely within the "rules", within the "expected" of this game that people seek the destruction of other people's ships. For income, or fun, for example. According to the forums the victims of such actions occasionally feel mistreated, as real person, and complain a lot. I think all the "harvesting tears" talk is just a coping mechanism. The ship-destroying person, while experiencing such complaints the first time, probably was shocked at how a harmless action within the normal gameplay of this game caused such accusations. Even if people think (edit: or know) they are in the right, such accusations can get to them, I know that to be true for me at least. So the attitude of the pirates may just be to reassure themselves and their likes that what they are doing is not wrong.
From a possibly small start it probably escalated over time to the situation we see now.
Ok, that was pretty long for "I doubt most of them are that bad, they're just big-mouthed".
I've just realized this was off-topic, haha XD On-topic I can only say I've seen worse on other forums, though in the end it's always the same. People disagreeing with each other, repeating the same arguments over and over. It's not even really escalating much here, from what I've seen so far. |
|
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3140
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 08:38:00 -
[651] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:I am new here, so you may disregard my opinion, but I have to agree that it's outside the scope of gaming when people have the explicit goal of causing other, real people, pain. I think that cuts both ways really. If someone allows a mere game to become a conduit that results in them experiencing real-world pain or heartache easily then I'd argue that person is actually the one with the bigger issue.
Also, welcome to EVE. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Riyria Twinpeaks
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 09:01:00 -
[652] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:I am new here, so you may disregard my opinion, but I have to agree that it's outside the scope of gaming when people have the explicit goal of causing other, real people, pain. I think that cuts both ways really. If someone allows a mere game to become a conduit that results in them experiencing real-world pain or heartache easily then I'd argue that person is actually the one with the bigger issue. Also, welcome to EVE.
Thank you :)
Also, what I meant was really what you are saying, too, I think: You cannot, and should not have to, expect that people are affected this much by things in a mere game. And if you do not expect it, then it can't really be your goal either, right? |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 09:11:00 -
[653] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Of course I agree with that, however, you make up most of your observations, so your conclusions are flawed. See, you don't observe the behaviour of anyone in real life, you just make circumstantial correlations. That's not observation. I, on the other hand, actually observed you make a transphobic comment.
It wasnt a transphobic comment, because it was directed at people "pretending" to be a something they are not. Whereas trans individuals are not pretending about their internal gender identity.
So your own observation, was infact, the transphobically skewed one, as you associated it with "pretending" (which trans individuals are not), whereas his comment was directed at people who pretend to be something they are not (which again, trans individuals are not pretending at) and did infact not include or even imply that.
Your observation was flawed, and subsequently, your conclusion. This because your observation was actually skewed by your own internal frame of reference which you superimposed on his comment, and led you to interpet it in a fashion that was not representative of the actual comment.
Again, this is something Ive noticed to be quite typical in your comments. You have an enormous penchant for projection. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
42
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 09:11:00 -
[654] - Quote
It's not neccessarily becoming upset that you've lost a space ship or pixels.
It's the realization that there are people who's goal it is to extract happiness by treating you poorly.
I haven't encountered any EVE griefing yet, but having come from a pretty hardcore game it'll be ridiculously hard for someone to make an impact on me. When I do encounter someone trying to upset me, I wont necessarily be "mad" that he's doing bad things to me. More like, I'll be "sad" that there are people like him who exist going through life trying to make others "mad". |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3142
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 09:19:00 -
[655] - Quote
You are a worry lol
I'm not even going to get involved with your outlet, subtly disguised as a debate. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Ai Shun
1147
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 09:33:00 -
[656] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:I think that cuts both ways really. If someone allows a mere game to become a conduit that results in them experiencing real-world pain or heartache easily then I'd argue that person is actually the one with the bigger issue.
I must say, I love the work you've put into that avatar. It looks incredibly well posed. I was going to suggest entering EVE-Portraits, but I've been gone too long ... it is no more.
As to what you say, I remember the incident a year or two ago between a maniacal miner and the leader of a massive alliance. One that ended with the burning of Jita and a veritable firestorm across the forums. It was an interesting cross-over. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
450
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 09:36:00 -
[657] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:I must say, I love the work you've put into that avatar. It looks incredibly well posed. I was going to suggest entering EVE-Portraits, but I've been gone too long ... it is no more.. Now you want New Eden Faces eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
69
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 09:41:00 -
[658] - Quote
I think there is one further element to EVE, that though we all know it and accept it, but perhaos have taken so for granted that we forget just how much it delineates this game from other MMORPGs, and how central it is to some of the issues raised here.
That is that in EVE there is still the inestimably valuable quality, that stuff actually can and does get perma-destroyed. Whether it does, is a result of the interbalance of your own ingame behavior vs that ot others. It quadrstically deepens the nature of player interaction in the game on a fundamental level that simply does not exist in other games.
While its easy to simply write that off glibly, especially from abstracted "carebear"perception as an annoyance and an element of the game some would rather simply have removed, it is axtually central to what makes EVE so engaging and vicarious.
If there was no such potential for other players to utterly grief, rob and kill the hell out of your characters, we wouldnt be having this disxussion at all, and infact many of us probably wouldnt even be here playing this game anymore.
Consider if everyone conducted themselves ingame by the exact same moral behavior they apply to themselves outside of game. Its a sobering thought, and what drives to the core of this discussion. Hoe many of us really ARE that moral, absolutely, even out ofthe game? And again, how is it that we reconcile that difference?
My argument on that, is we all apply a degree of dehumanisation to each other. We dont really perceive each other as "real", nor really attribute each other the same consideration, dignity and respect we would if, for example all of us where REALLY capsuleers if this virtual universe was somehow to become real. We regard each other as abstractions, caricatures of people, reduced to stereotypes. And guess what else, we also do that to ourselves in terms of regarding our own ingame behavior. |
Remiel Pollard
Stirling Iron Society
2624
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:04:00 -
[659] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:that he is a person capable of choosing to lie and steal from other people.
Well, that would be the entire human race. Capability is one thing, the execution and its consequences are something entirely different. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:08:00 -
[660] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:that he is a person capable of choosing to lie and steal from other people. Well, that would be the entire human race. Capability is one thing, the execution and its consequences are something entirely different.
Yes, we're all capable. I agree. The Execution is demonstrated by executing the choice you made to lie and steal from other people in eve.
The execution is the same, in game and out of game.
I sit at my computer and decide to lie and steal from someone is exactly the same as standing in the middle of a shopping complex and deciding I want to lie and steal from someone.
Where you are when you choose to lie and steal doesn't matter, it's the choice that does. |
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16832
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:18:00 -
[661] - Quote
DE. You've still not shown the owners of the 'stolen' property accept your idea that it's stolen, let alone deserving a moral stance.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1577
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:18:00 -
[662] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The execution is the same, in game and out of game.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
907
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:20:00 -
[663] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Is what he stole real? No.
Is his act of stealing it real? Yes it is.
Also, we get to choose what we attribute value to. I may not care if I lose a merlin, but I may care when I lose a griffin. I get to pick and choose where my values lie, just like you.
You mean, you played the game with your pieces and he played the game with his pieces, and he captured your piece under the game rules on allowable ways to capture your opponent's pieces?
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:27:00 -
[664] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Is what he stole real? No.
Is his act of stealing it real? Yes it is.
Also, we get to choose what we attribute value to. I may not care if I lose a merlin, but I may care when I lose a griffin. I get to pick and choose where my values lie, just like you. You mean, you played the game with your pieces and he played the game with his pieces, and he captured your piece under the game rules on allowable ways to capture your opponent's pieces?
Yea, but the objective of the game isn't neccessarily to capture others pieces. It's an option, but no where is it stated that doing so is a requirement. In fact, in this game of pieces, you can choose to never try to capture another person's piece. Playing the game in that fashion makes you a good person in the fact that at least youdon't try to ruin others games by capturing their pieces. Choosing to capture others pieces, since it is not a requirement of the game, means that you're the type of person who make the choice to capture others pieces. |
Douglas Nolm
Useless Incorporated QUIET TIME.
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:27:00 -
[665] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:that he is a person capable of choosing to lie and steal from other people. Well, that would be the entire human race. Capability is one thing, the execution and its consequences are something entirely different. Yes, we're all capable. I agree. The Execution is demonstrated by executing the choice you made to lie and steal from other people in eve. The execution is the same, in game and out of game. I sit at my computer and decide to lie and steal from someone is exactly the same as standing in the middle of a shopping complex and deciding I want to lie and steal from someone. Where you are when you choose to lie and steal doesn't matter, it's the choice that does.
What total and utter bollocks! If you kill someone in eve, it's just a bunch of pixels, generated for the express purpose of being destroyed. If you scam or steal isk in eve again, it's scamming and stealing something that isn't real, and was created for that express purpose To apply real world morality to a game is idiocy in the extreme. No FPS is like really fighting in a war, especially the multiplayer ones, does that make the players mass murderers? What about the mafia or gta series? Criminals? Or hitman? Highly successful, obviously it was only bought by psychopathic murderer wanbabees right?
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:29:00 -
[666] - Quote
Mag's wrote:DE. You've still not shown the owners of the 'stolen' property accept your idea that it's stolen, let alone deserving a moral stance.
I don't wish to accidentally assume something you did not mean to imply.
May you elaborate? |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:29:00 -
[667] - Quote
The person playing that other character, however, is as real as you are.
As you have pointed out, none of the ingame assets are "real". Ergo, what you do to unreal objects is immaterial, and infact the only element of consequence that is real, is what you are doing, via the game, to another real person.
THAT is real. Because it occurs between two real people, even though the context in which it occurs, is unreal.
Do you understand what I am saying? |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1577
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:39:00 -
[668] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The person playing that other character, however, is as real as you are. As you have pointed out, none of the ingame assets are "real". Ergo, what you do to unreal objects is immaterial, and infact the only element of consequence that is real, is what you are doing, via the game, to another real person. THAT is real. Because it occurs between two real people, even though the context in which it occurs, is unreal. Do you understand what I am saying?
Yes but how is the person blowing up the pixels supposed to know what effect their actions in game will have on that person out of game?
The game is about shooting pixels.
Victory is often decided by surprise. A ganker can't exactly ask, "Hey if I blow your **** up are you going to get horribly upset in real life?"
No one wants their **** blown up but it is part of the game. Even the highsec ganker gets their **** blown up. But assuming that everyone should ask before blowing **** up in a game about blowing **** up is silly. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16832
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:43:00 -
[669] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Mag's wrote:DE. You've still not shown the owners of the 'stolen' property accept your idea that it's stolen, let alone deserving a moral stance. I don't wish to accidentally assume something you did not mean to imply. May you elaborate? You keep claiming that the items are stolen and this in turn hands it a moral stance. But the owners do not share you view, but do show what could be seen as a moral stance against other forms of theft. In other words your view isn't one shared by the owners, but they do show a moral dislike for actual theft and will and do act upon it.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:44:00 -
[670] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Yes but how is the person blowing up the pixels supposed to know what effect their actions in game will have on that person out of game?
They don't know. They don't know for certain how people in IRL will react either. I'm not sure why you bring this up though. Can you specify what point you are raising with this?
Kimmi Chan wrote: But assuming that everyone should ask before blowing **** up in a game about blowing **** up is silly. I agree, but again, I'm not sure why you raise this point, or what your point really is.
Who is assuming you should ask people if they mind you blowing up their **** before doing so?
Mag's wrote:You keep claiming that the items are stolen and this in turn hands it a moral stance. But the owners do not share you view, but do show what could be seen as a moral stance against other forms of theft. In other words your view isn't one shared by the owners, but they do show a moral dislike for actual theft and will and do act upon it.
Just my 2 cents, but stealing is the act of willfully taking from another person their property which does not rightfully (in whichever form) belong to you. I think you are mixing terms here. Are you trying to argue that it is not stealing if the person from whom you take it does not think of you as a thief for taking it from them? Cos if so, that makes no sense. That would just mean they dont care if you steal from them. Doesn't make it any less of theft, though. |
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1577
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:53:00 -
[671] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Yes but how is the person blowing up the pixels supposed to know what effect their actions in game will have on that person out of game? They don't know. They don't know for certain how people in IRL will react either. I'm not sure why you bring this up though. Can you specify what point you are raising with this? Kimmi Chan wrote: But assuming that everyone should ask before blowing **** up in a game about blowing **** up is silly. I agree, but again, I'm not sure why you raise this point, or what your point really is. Who is assuming you should ask people if they mind you blowing up their **** before doing so? Mag's wrote:You keep claiming that the items are stolen and this in turn hands it a moral stance. But the owners do not share you view, but do show what could be seen as a moral stance against other forms of theft. In other words your view isn't one shared by the owners, but they do show a moral dislike for actual theft and will and do act upon it. Just my 2 cents, but stealing is the act of willfully taking from another person their property which does not rightfully (in whichever form) belong to you. I think you are mixing terms here. Are you trying to argue that it is not stealing if the person from whom you take it does not think of you as a thief for taking it from them? Cos if so, that makes no sense. That would just mean they dont care if you steal from them. Doesn't make it any less of theft, though.
If a ganker can not be clairvoyant to the point of knowing how their victim will react, how can they be faulted by how their action of blowing **** up in a game about blowing **** up affects the person whose **** they are blowing up?
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16832
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 10:54:00 -
[672] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mag's wrote:You keep claiming that the items are stolen and this in turn hands it a moral stance. But the owners do not share you view, but do show what could be seen as a moral stance against other forms of theft. In other words your view isn't one shared by the owners, but they do show a moral dislike for actual theft and will and do act upon it. Just my 2 cents, but stealing is the act of willfully taking from another person their property which does not rightfully (in whichever form) belong to you. I think you are mixing terms here. Are you trying to argue that it is not stealing if the person from whom you take it does not think of you as a thief for taking it from them? Cos if so, that makes no sense. That would just mean they dont care if you steal from them. Doesn't make it any less of theft, though. I'm asking if he can show that the owners think it's stealing with a moral take on it.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
907
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:01:00 -
[673] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Just my 2 cents, but stealing is the act of willfully taking from another person their property which does not rightfully (in whichever form) belong to you
Then, since everything in the game is property of CCP, and remains property of CCP when transferred between characters, there has been no theft. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:01:00 -
[674] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mag's wrote:You keep claiming that the items are stolen and this in turn hands it a moral stance. But the owners do not share you view, but do show what could be seen as a moral stance against other forms of theft. In other words your view isn't one shared by the owners, but they do show a moral dislike for actual theft and will and do act upon it. Just my 2 cents, but stealing is the act of willfully taking from another person their property which does not rightfully (in whichever form) belong to you. I think you are mixing terms here. Are you trying to argue that it is not stealing if the person from whom you take it does not think of you as a thief for taking it from them? Cos if so, that makes no sense. That would just mean they dont care if you steal from them. Doesn't make it any less of theft, though. I'm asking if he can show that the owners think it's stealing with a moral take on it.
I'm pretty certain I have you figured out. You keep using the word owners.
You want me to say, well why would the person you're stealing from enjoy being stolen from!
and then you'll come in all high and mighty and be like,
"AH HA!!! BUT ACCORDING TO THE EULA CCP MAINTAINS OWNERSHIP OF ALL ITEMS WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE EVE ONLINE UNIVERSE"
Nice try.
But I get it. Here's the deal, yo. While CCP technically owns everything in the game, we're still allowed to possess them.
These items are our possessions. Now I being a person allowed to possess items in EVE, if someone were to steal it from me, the POSSESSOR, I would think that person is a bad person for making the choice to want to steal the things CCP granted I may possess. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
453
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:11:00 -
[675] - Quote
I must be a little slow because this whole stealing thing is beyond me.
What possessions are stolen exactly, and from whom?
I've always been under the impression that all in game items belong to CCP not to the players. The players don't own possession of them at all. There can't be any theft when the items remain in exactly the place they are meant to be. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16832
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:12:00 -
[676] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:[quote=Mag's] I'm pretty certain I have you figured out. You keep using the word owners.
You want me to say, well why would the person you're stealing from enjoy being stolen from!
and then you'll come in all high and mighty and be like,
"AH HA!!! BUT ACCORDING TO THE EULA CCP MAINTAINS OWNERSHIP OF ALL ITEMS WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE EVE ONLINE UNIVERSE"
Nice try.
But I get it. Here's the deal, yo. While CCP technically owns everything in the game, we're still allowed to possess them.
These items are our possessions. Now I being a person allowed to possess items in EVE, if someone were to steal it from me, the POSSESSOR, I would think that person is a bad person for making the choice to want to steal the things CCP granted I may possess. No actually you have use of them and access to the server. But rules regarding their use are defined by the owner. You may not like them, but morals don't come into it. Unless they decide.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3148
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:12:00 -
[677] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:I must say, I love the work you've put into that avatar. It looks incredibly well posed. I was going to suggest entering EVE-Portraits, but I've been gone too long ... it is no more. Thanks! More butterflies
Erica's sister Dani has the same style, and even their baby sister Shelby did her own spin on the theme for a lil bit.
Anyway I must say I find yours rather attractive also, maybe we should do lunch sometime?
And yeah, don't get me started on New Eden Faces I don't give the site much credence, although I am quite proud of Erica for making #1 Caldari, Female and overall avatar in Sept last year. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:19:00 -
[678] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:If a ganker can not be clairvoyant to the point of knowing how their victim will react, how can they be faulted for how their action of blowing **** up in a game about blowing **** up affects the person whose **** they are blowing up?
The nature of responsibility is the following. Ideally, an individual is only responsible for matters which are under their direct control to affect. One cannot, ideally, be held responsible for something that you have no means of control over. For example: I am not responsible for how right now somewhere in a rural town in China, a small girl is crying because her brother stole her candy. Nor am I responsible for how someone in-game just now had their stuff blown up by another player seconds before down-time.
So in relation to your question, the person who blows up another persons ship, is responsible for that act, but not for how the other person reacts to that. That is beyond their capacity to control and is instead in the area of responsibility and control of the person who's stuff gets blown up.
However, with the way our society and social interaction is structured (ie: how we humans behave as social animals), people are held responsible for the (admittedly) uncontrollable but reasonably expectable human consequences of their actions. If someone steals from another person IRL, there is often recourse to sue also for emotional damages. (Though the person enacting the theft cannot be held responsible for how the victim reacts, it is reasonably expected that the emotional damage is resultant from the act.) Thats also why mentally unsound individuals are tried differently, because it is seen as "unfair" to try them as having been reasonably capable of anticipating that their theft would not only cause the physical loss of property to the other person, but also "humanly" cause them suffering in a way that is considered against societal standards and which is sanctioned against.
Its a quandary, and there is no clear cut answer. Human social interaction, and how we structure our society and its rules, are full of contradictions and inconsistencies like this.
TLDR: No, the perpetrator can only be held responsible for their own act, not for how the victim reacts. This because the perpetrator only has control over the former but not the latter. The perpetrator can however, reasonably, (if of sound mental state) be held to have been aware that his act is likely to cause suffering on the part of the victim. This is considered implicit as part of his choice to commit that act. That they are aware that as a result of their act, another will suffer, and knowing that, they choose that act regardless.
Mag's wrote:Im asking if he can show that the owners think it's stealing with a moral take on it.
Isn't it their choice whether it's bad or good? You mean like Robin Hood? That because he stole from Nottingham and gave to the poor, his moral prerogative made it less of a theft and more of a virtue? It was still theft. And Nottingham would certainly have thought so.
Its the victims choice how they respond to someone taking their property without their consent. It is still, however, theft. They are ofc free to react as "Yeah, he stole from me, but I dont care", but it is, still, by definition, theft.
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Just my 2 cents, but stealing is the act of willfully taking from another person their property which does not rightfully (in whichever form) belong to you Then, since everything in the game is property of CCP, and remains property of CCP when transferred between characters, there has been no theft. Read the thread. I've already addressed this. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:19:00 -
[679] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:[quote=Mag's] I'm pretty certain I have you figured out. You keep using the word owners.
You want me to say, well why would the person you're stealing from enjoy being stolen from!
and then you'll come in all high and mighty and be like,
"AH HA!!! BUT ACCORDING TO THE EULA CCP MAINTAINS OWNERSHIP OF ALL ITEMS WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE EVE ONLINE UNIVERSE"
Nice try.
But I get it. Here's the deal, yo. While CCP technically owns everything in the game, we're still allowed to possess them.
These items are our possessions. Now I being a person allowed to possess items in EVE, if someone were to steal it from me, the POSSESSOR, I would think that person is a bad person for making the choice to want to steal the things CCP granted I may possess. No actually you have use of them and access to the server. But rules regarding their use are defined by the owner. You may not like them, but morals don't come into it. Unless they decide.
I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole:
CCP OWNS IT ALL
angle?
Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.
So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.
and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance.
Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1578
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:24:00 -
[680] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:[quote=Mag's] I'm pretty certain I have you figured out. You keep using the word owners.
You want me to say, well why would the person you're stealing from enjoy being stolen from!
and then you'll come in all high and mighty and be like,
"AH HA!!! BUT ACCORDING TO THE EULA CCP MAINTAINS OWNERSHIP OF ALL ITEMS WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE EVE ONLINE UNIVERSE"
Nice try.
But I get it. Here's the deal, yo. While CCP technically owns everything in the game, we're still allowed to possess them.
These items are our possessions. Now I being a person allowed to possess items in EVE, if someone were to steal it from me, the POSSESSOR, I would think that person is a bad person for making the choice to want to steal the things CCP granted I may possess. No actually you have use of them and access to the server. But rules regarding their use are defined by the owner. You may not like them, but morals don't come into it. Unless they decide. I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole: CCP OWNS IT ALL angle? Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE. So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out. and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance. Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you.
You're wrong again. Mag's is actually trying to get you to say that the collection of tea cozies is the property of CCP and therefore he didn't actually steal them from me.
**** son, try and keep up.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:29:00 -
[681] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Thats also why mentally unsound individuals are tried differently, because it is seen as "unfair" to try them as having been reasonably capable of anticipating that their theft would not only cause the physical loss of property to the other person, but also "humanly" cause them suffering in a way that is considered against societal standards and which is sanctioned against.
haha! I love this. Essentially what this means, is if they choose to lie and steal from someone to take their possessions and are ignorant to the fact that their actions could potentially cause the person you're stealing from emotional harm, that they are mentally unsound.
That's perfect. They cannot comprehend how their actions are bad, because they are mentally unsound.
If eve had a court system and they were tried for their crimes against humanity, they would be put in a mental hospital because they are mentally unsound.
Beautiful.
It's so perfect. What's even funnier, is because their brains don't work correctly, they're not going to be able to accept it and will melt down around it, trying to justify to themselves why it's not the case.
Lovely. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1579
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:31:00 -
[682] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a ganker can not be clairvoyant to the point of knowing how their victim will react, how can they be faulted for how their action of blowing **** up in a game about blowing **** up affects the person whose **** they are blowing up? The nature of responsibility is the following. Ideally, an individual is only responsible for matters which are under their direct control to affect. One cannot, ideally, be held responsible for something that you have no means of control over. For example: I am not responsible for how right now somewhere in a rural town in China, a small girl is crying because her brother stole her candy. Nor am I responsible for how someone in-game just now had their stuff blown up by another player seconds before down-time. So in relation to your question, the person who blows up another persons ship, is responsible for that act, but not for how the other person reacts to that. That is beyond their capacity to control and is instead in the area of responsibility and control of the person who's stuff gets blown up. However, with the way our society and social interaction is structured (ie: how we humans behave as social animals), people are held responsible for the (admittedly) uncontrollable but reasonably expectable human consequences of their actions. If someone steals from another person IRL, there is often recourse to sue also for emotional damages. (Though the person enacting the theft cannot be held responsible for how the victim reacts, it is reasonably expected that the emotional damage is resultant from the act.) Thats also why mentally unsound individuals are tried differently, because it is seen as "unfair" to try them as having been reasonably capable of anticipating that their theft would not only cause the physical loss of property to the other person, but also "humanly" cause them suffering in a way that is considered against societal standards and which is sanctioned against. Its a quandary, and there is no clear cut answer. Human social interaction, and how we structure our society and its rules, are full of contradictions and inconsistencies like this. TLDR: No, the perpetrator can only be held responsible for their own act, not for how the victim reacts. This because the perpetrator only has control over the former but not the latter. The perpetrator can however, reasonably, (if of sound mental state) be held to have been aware that his act is likely to cause suffering on the part of the victim. This is considered implicit as part of his choice to commit that act. That they are aware that as a result of their act, another will suffer, and knowing that, they choose that act regardless.
Why is it acceptable to hold someone responsible for the (admittedly) uncontrollable but reasonably expected human consequence IF the action is part of the game being played?
The perpetrator is expected to have an understanding how their actions in this game may adversely affect the recipient of their Antimatter charges despite having no knowledge or previous indicator of any emotional reaction.
I submit that the victim is expected to have an understanding that they are playing a game about **** getting blown up. If they play this game either ignorant of the fact that their **** might get blown up or are negligent in the face of this expectation, then they are no victim at all, emotional duress or not.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:33:00 -
[683] - Quote
This technicality has already been addressed and disregarded, though it is amusing that some people seem to be either incapable of grasping the deeper issues being talked about here, and have been trying for no less than 4-5 pages repeatedly (without contributing anything else or even understanding what else is going on) "nail" the discussion on the known and understood fact that CCP owns everything in EVE.
CCP owns the game and everything in it, but for example:
You and others are at a friends house. The house owner pulls out the dreaded Monopoly game (which he also owns). You and your friends sit down to a game of Monopoly (which he owns) in his house (which he also owns). Everyone is dealt out their share of monehs at start, as are the rules of teh game. Then, at some point, one of the guys takes from your stacks of monehs a few 100s without your (or the game/house owners) permission. That is theft from you, though it is the game owners property and his house in which the game and the property is held. This because in the context of the game, that moneh was yours to use for the purposes of playing the game. You have an internal contextual right to possession of it, though ofc actual ownership of it is still vested in the game/house owner. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:36:00 -
[684] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:This technicality has already been addressed and disregarded, though it is amusing that some people seem to be either incapable of grasping the deeper issues being talked about here, and have been trying for no less than 4-5 pages repeatedly (without contributing anything else or even understanding what else is going on) "nail" the discussion on the known and understood fact that CCP owns everything in EVE. Reminds me of little kiddies trying to participate in adult conversation, but who don't really understand at all what is going on.
CCP owns the game and everything in it, but for example:
You and others are at a friends house. The house owner pulls out the dreaded Monopoly game (which he also owns). You and your friends sit down to a game of Monopoly (which he owns) in his house (which he also owns). Everyone is dealt out their share of monehs at start, as are the rules of teh game. Then, at some point, one of the guys takes from your stacks of monehs a few 100s without your (or the game/house owners) permission. That is theft from you, though it is the game owners property and his house in which the game and the property is held. Even if you play his game of Monopoly, in his house, with his special house rules which ALLOW stealing, it is still theft by definition. This because in the context of the game, that moneh was yours to use for the purposes of playing the game. You have an internal contextual right to possession of it, though ofc actual ownership of it is still vested in the game/house owner. Please edit your previous post directed towards Mags. You implied that the player owns the items. Technically, CCP owns them. We're simply allowed to hold them in our character's possession. They are our possessions. If you do not change it, since he has no real argument, he's going to focus solely on the "ownership" aspect. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
908
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:37:00 -
[685] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.
So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.
You can apply your morals if you want, wherever you want. Some people believe eating certain kinds of meat is morally evil.
Whether other people have any reason to take your morals seriously due to being derived from totally batshit logic, is another matter. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:37:00 -
[686] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:I submit that the victim is expected to have an understanding that they are playing a game about **** getting blown up. If they play this game either ignorant of the fact that their **** might get blown up or are negligent in the face of this expectation, then they are no victim at all, emotional duress or not.
I agree entirely. That would indeed be a far truer, more consistent and morally "fair" attitude towards responsibility.
Unfortunately, people on both sides of the issue, both perpetrator and victim, ingame and out of it, LOVE to shirk personal responsibility whenever and however they can. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:38:00 -
[687] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Please edit your previous post directed towards Mags. You implied that the player owns the items. Technically, CCP owns them. We're simply allowed to hold them in our character's possession. They are our possessions. If you do not change it, since he has no real argument, he's going to focus solely on the "ownership" aspect.
To come to that conclusion you have either misread or misunderstood my post.
That distinction is already included as you delineate it, and it is one I am in agreement with. He's going to focus on some superficial and irrelevant minutiae anyways, no matter how we specify. That is his only purpose here. Trying to jam his small plastic toy screwdriver into the workings of this discussion though he actually has no idea what is going on. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1580
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:42:00 -
[688] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:I submit that the victim is expected to have an understanding that they are playing a game about **** getting blown up. If they play this game either ignorant of the fact that their **** might get blown up or are negligent in the face of this expectation, then they are no victim at all, emotional duress or not.
I agree entirely. That would indeed be a far truer, more consistent and morally "fair" attitude towards responsibility. Unfortunately, people on both sides of the issue, both perpetrator and victim, ingame and out of it, LOVE to shirk personal responsibility whenever and however they can.
Good discussion Salvos. I've enjoyed this.
One last thing:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:If someone steals from another person IRL, there is often recourse to sue also for emotional damages.
Emotional damages are not awarded in Criminal hearings. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:42:00 -
[689] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Its the victims choice how they respond to someone taking their property without their consent. It is still, however, theft. They are ofc free to react as "Yeah, he stole from me, but I dont care", but it is, still, by definition, theft.
I meant that specific quote right there. He's going to zero in on it because he has no other leg to stand on. Though you perfectly explained it in the subsequent post, well, we cant control how people react to the answers staring them directly in the face.
I'm simply suggesting you make it easy.
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:45:00 -
[690] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Emotional damages are not awarded in Criminal hearings. Yes, but again, owing to the interesting inconsistencies and paradoxes of human society and interaction (which are to an extent necessary to give people more of a feeling of personal autonomy in what is essentially anyways a very controlling and restrictive environment) they can be awarded in a separate civil case.
I enjoyed the discussion very much as well. My thanks to you. |
|
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
908
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:52:00 -
[691] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The person playing that other character, however, is as real as you are. As you have pointed out, none of the ingame assets are "real". Ergo, what you do to unreal objects is immaterial, and infact the only element of consequence that is real, is what you are doing, via the game, to another real person. THAT is real. Because it occurs between two real people, even though the context in which it occurs, is unreal. Do you understand what I am saying?
Yes, the emotional "damage" can be real.
Just like in the boxing ring the physical damage will be real.
The question is, if someone didn't like to be physically harmed, why did they climb into the boxing ring, wearing boxing outfit, and announce "yes, here I am, I understand I can be boxed, you may box me when ready".
And then afterwards try and claim the person who KO'd them is morally equivalent to someone who goes around the street beating of old ladies.
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:54:00 -
[692] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:The question is, if someone didn't like to be physically harmed, why did they climb into the boxing ring, wearing boxing outfit, and announce "yes, here I am, I understand I can be boxed, you may box me when ready".
I suppose by the same logic I could ask you why you crawled out of your mothers womb.
Is this going somewhere? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:54:00 -
[693] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote: Yes, the emotional "damage" can be real.
Just like in the boxing ring the physical damage will be real.
The question is, if someone didn't like to be physically harmed, why did they climb into the boxing ring, wearing boxing outfit, and announce "yes, here I am, I understand I can be boxed, you may box me when ready".
And then afterwards try and claim the person who KO'd them is morally equivalent to someone who goes around the street beating of old ladies.
Choice |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
908
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:55:00 -
[694] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:The question is, if someone didn't like to be physically harmed, why did they climb into the boxing ring, wearing boxing outfit, and announce "yes, here I am, I understand I can be boxed, you may box me when ready". I suppose by the same logic I could ask you why you crawled out of your mothers womb. Is this going somewhere?
When you log into a game, you risk the emotional damage. If you don't like it, don't come into the ring. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:56:00 -
[695] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:The question is, if someone didn't like to be physically harmed, why did they climb into the boxing ring, wearing boxing outfit, and announce "yes, here I am, I understand I can be boxed, you may box me when ready". I suppose by the same logic I could ask you why you crawled out of your mothers womb. Is this going somewhere? When you log into a game, you risk the emotional damage. If you don't like it, don't come into the ring.
When I go outside to smoke I risk someone running up and mugging me.
Just because something is possible, is someone choosing to make it happen right?
They may be different because one is online and one is offline.
But they're similar in regards that it's one person choosing to gain for himself at another's expense. Someone who didn't wish for it to take place. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
909
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 11:59:00 -
[696] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:The question is, if someone didn't like to be physically harmed, why did they climb into the boxing ring, wearing boxing outfit, and announce "yes, here I am, I understand I can be boxed, you may box me when ready". I suppose by the same logic I could ask you why you crawled out of your mothers womb. Is this going somewhere? When you log into a game, you risk the emotional damage. If you don't like it, don't come into the ring. When I go outside to smoke I risk someone running up and mugging me. Just because something is possible, is someone choosing to make it happen right?
The difference between the real world is that you must live in. In the EVE world, you choose to be in it. The risk from any harm done to you in EVE can be totally 100% removed from your life, forever, by leaving the game.
Since you have a choice to be here it's implied that you accept the risks, and that you consent the way a boxer or rugby player consents to bodily harm in the games they choose to play, and therefore the harm done is no longer morally wrong. |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1195
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:02:00 -
[697] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:The question is, if someone didn't like to be physically harmed, why did they climb into the boxing ring, wearing boxing outfit, and announce "yes, here I am, I understand I can be boxed, you may box me when ready". I suppose by the same logic I could ask you why you crawled out of your mothers womb. Is this going somewhere? When you log into a game, you risk the emotional damage. If you don't like it, don't come into the ring.
I can't like this enough, it's just that correct.
When I'm not in a good headspace to play EVE, and deal with the possible consequences...I don't play. If I do log in, I stay docked and just chat with friends.
It's almost like watching someone get in the boxing ring when they have a migraine, then complain about how their headache is worse....only then to ***** about why headshots are legal. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:03:00 -
[698] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Seven Koskanaiken wrote:The question is, if someone didn't like to be physically harmed, why did they climb into the boxing ring, wearing boxing outfit, and announce "yes, here I am, I understand I can be boxed, you may box me when ready". I suppose by the same logic I could ask you why you crawled out of your mothers womb. Is this going somewhere? When you log into a game, you risk the emotional damage. If you don't like it, don't come into the ring. When I go outside to smoke I risk someone running up and mugging me. Just because something is possible, is someone choosing to make it happen right? The difference between the real world is that you must live in. In the EVE world, you choose to be in it. The risk from any harm done to you in EVE can be totally 100% removed from your life, forever, by leaving the game.
Isn't EVE within the real world? |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
74
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:03:00 -
[699] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:The difference between the real world is that you must live in. In the EVE world, you choose to be in it. The risk from any harm done to you in EVE can be totally 100% removed from your life, forever, by leaving the game.
Yes, you can forever leave life too if you so choose.
Where is any of this going? You are making arguments as if anyone had claimed anything contrary to them.
What is your exact and specific point, please? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:06:00 -
[700] - Quote
The "harshness" of eve doesn't have to exist. It can exist, and I'm glad it does. It makes things interesting.
It provides entertainment. If it didn't exist, I wouldn't have this super fun opportunity to speak with you about opinions on the subject.
But it's also based on choices. While you choose to lie to someone to gain his trust, then use that trust to steal 500m isk out of his possession, that is you choosing to be a person who lies to steal. You may be lying and stealing from people online within a game, but you're still lying and stealing FROM PEOPLE.
And the game doesn't even REQUIRE you to steal from people. You don't have to. There is no where in the EULA that says you MUST lie and steal from people. CCP has never said that everyone has to be bad. You choosing to be bad means this:
That you will choose to be bad.
There are times in your life where you will choose to lie and steal from people.
Because you prove to me that you are someone who will make the choice to steal from someone, I'm going to label you as someone who will make the choice to steal from someone and regard you as such. I will never fully trust you in any scenario, because you've already proven to me that there are times where you will choose to lie and steal from people when you do not have to. |
|
Riyria Twinpeaks
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:23:00 -
[701] - Quote
So when I'd play poker and do everything I can to make you believe my hand is so good that you have to fold, and I manage to make you fold. And then I take your money, while my hand was crap. Then I am a person you cannot trust, too? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:28:00 -
[702] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:So when I'd play poker and do everything I can to make you believe my hand is so good that you have to fold, and I manage to make you fold. And then I take your money, while my hand was crap. Then I am a person you cannot trust, too?
Poker is not a sandbox.
EvE is a game based on choices. Poker is a game based on being dealt cards.
Seriously, we've had the poker discussion in this thread already. I'm not going to have it again. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19666
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:44:00 -
[703] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Incorrect. I've successfully demonstrated through analogies that you are you, despite you pretending to be someone else. Nope. You've successfully demonstrated that you can observe in context what you can observe in context, that is all. You have yet to demonstrate that there is any way to transpose observations between contexts, and yet you keep trying to make judgements across those lines. So all you've demonstrated is that your claims about other people are prejudiced.
Quote:But, since you're making the choice, I get to label you as someone who chooses to be a criminal. Because you choose to do it. GǪwhich tells you absolutely nothing about the character of the person.
Quote:If I see someone join a corporation, lie to the director saying he wishes to help and asks for and is given roles, and then he takes over the corporation by removing every one else's roles and calling a CEO vote, and attempting to extort isk from the people he's stolen from, that is not me making up an observation. GǪbut you making claims about the person and his motivations and morality is. Because you have no observations to base those claims on GÇö only prejudice.
Quote:Poker is not a sandbox. Irrelevant. It is still a game with players and rules that they abide by and with a magic circle that separates in-game from out-of game. Like EVE, poker is a game of choice. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19666
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:46:00 -
[704] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:It is self-evident that gankers and many scammers are not out to create a narrative developing within the magic circle, even though some of their deeds are relayed by press and fora as part of the EvE story. But what those deeds really are, are players using an online game as a platform to revel in the joy of having humiliated someone accross the internet. Do you have anything to support this claim? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 12:47:00 -
[705] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:So when I'd play poker and do everything I can to make you believe my hand is so good that you have to fold, and I manage to make you fold. And then I take your money, while my hand was crap. Then I am a person you cannot trust, too? Poker is not a sandbox. EvE is a game based on choices. Poker is a game based on being dealt cards. Seriously, we've had the poker discussion in this thread already. I'm not going to have it again.
I guess I missed that part.
I read a bit back into the thread again and also noticed the "gaining trust, then steal" part. That's indeed something I wouldn't be comfortable doing myself, and I'd probably be angry if someone did it to me. Someone I consider a friend stealing from me, of course I'd feel betrayed.
Somehow I was writing under the assumption the talk was about regular scammers.
Edit: But the case of someone telling some Corporation director, or whatever they're called here, two days after joining: "Hey, give me access to your hangar I need to borrow a ship" .. and that director does this and has his stuff stolen.. I'm on the fence here. I wouldn't do that myself, but there wasn't really any personal relation and trust to be betrayed, "just" some naivety. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:04:00 -
[706] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Incorrect. I've successfully demonstrated through analogies that you are you, despite you pretending to be someone else. Nope. You've successfully demonstrated that you can observe in context what you can observe in context, that is all. You have yet to demonstrate that there is any way to transpose observations between contexts, and yet you keep trying to make judgements across those lines. So all you've demonstrated is that your claims about other people are prejudiced. Quote:But, since you're making the choice, I get to label you as someone who chooses to be a criminal. Because you choose to do it. GǪwhich tells you absolutely nothing about the character of the person. Quote:If I see someone join a corporation, lie to the director saying he wishes to help and asks for and is given roles, and then he takes over the corporation by removing every one else's roles and calling a CEO vote, and attempting to extort isk from the people he's stolen from, that is not me making up an observation. GǪbut you making claims about the person and his motivations and morality is. Because you have no observations to base those claims on GÇö only prejudice. Quote:Poker is not a sandbox. Irrelevant. It is still a game with players and rules that they abide by and with a magic circle that separates in-game from out-of game. Like EVE, poker is a game of choice.
Prejudiced. You keep saying that word but I think you do not know what it means.
By definition, prejudice is preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
Hypothetically:
The experience, You lying to me saying you want to borrow 500m for 1 month and you promise you'll pay me back 530m. You chose to keep the isk and never repay me.
Reason, because you chose to lie and steal from me, I reason that you are the type of person who will pick and choose to lie and steal from other people in an environment where it's not required for you to do so.
Tells me nothing about the character? Wrong, it tells me that the person makes the choice to be a criminal.
The observation is the action that took place. The person is enacting the action.
I'm not playing Poker, I'm playing EVE. It can be argued that an appealing aspect of EVE is the more life-like qualities of the game, besides the fantastical science fiction of being in a future thousands of years away flying through space in a ships. It's similarites are: The ability to interact with hundreds of thousands of other REAL people. Persistence when the individual is not logged in. When you're offline, the game keeps going! Learning/skill progression. Items of value. A thriving economy all encompassing economy. And most importantly, the ability to play it any way we see fit. Choose to be a criminal! Choose to be a miner! Choose to be a trader! Choose to be a pirate! Have an impact on the game play of others, either positive or negative.
What other game on the market has a stronger connection to reality? Even CCP ran an ad campaign with a slogan of "EVE Is Real!" Is it really real? Well . . . it does exist. If EVE didn't exist, then I wouldn't be here talking about it. You might, I dunno. You seem capable of wanting to sit around and think about things that don't exist (like saying Poker and EVE are identical games, poker is essentially CARDS IN SPACE).
Is what's happening a reality? Because of these ships flying on our screens, does it mean there's one really flying in space? No, of course not. It's not really real, it's just kind of real. It's pretty similar to being real.
Now considering how real eve almost is, what is the one element of the game that is 100% genuinely real? The other people you're playing with. The most important part of EVE, it's people. You can not argue that the people playing EVE are not real. There may be bots, but I swear if you try to argue that I am not real. That my friends are not real, I will insult you. Screw the rules, if you want to argue that we as people, are not real people. You will be deserving of all the negativity I will say about you.
But back to the point. The people are real. The only real aspect of the game.
You are a real person. You tell me lies saying you want to borrow from me. I believe you. You lied. You stole. From me. A real person. That really happened. The platform for which you chose to stole from me might not be, but the action you perform is what creates the reality. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19666
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:15:00 -
[707] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Prejudiced. You keep saying that word but I think you do not know what it means. It means you're making judgment about people based on nothing but assumptions.
Quote:Tells me nothing about the character? Wrong, it tells me that the person makes the choice to be a criminal. The observation is the action that took place. The person is enacting the action. GǪwhich still tells you nothing about the character of the person, only about the fact that the action took place in a game. You have a sharp disconnect between the two that you can only bridge by making assumptions. Any claim you make about the character is therefore pure prejudice.
Quote:I'm not playing Poker, I'm playing EVE. Then you should probably stop trying to make any definitive claims about pokerGǪ hmm?
Quote:You are a real person. You tell me lies saying you want to borrow from me. I believe you. You lied. You stole. From me. A real person. That really happened. The platform for which you chose to stole from me might not be, but the action you perform is what creates the reality. GǪwhich all happened within the confines of the magic circle where such things are part of the game. Thus, they only tell you about the game GÇö not about the character of the person out of game (unless, of course, you want to apply some assumed causal chain between the two and rely on nothing prejudice to make spurious claims about the morality and ethics of other players).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4901
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:21:00 -
[708] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Gyromite wrote:@ Divine Entervention: Hi, I'm a typical RPG thief class character, are my values in real life morally reprehensible? Mate, please. We've had three good threads ruined by that discussion. All that will happen is he'll fill the thread with insults and arguments and go on and on without a real point. Don't go there again, please. If you really want to see what he has to say, use eve-search and read it there. Please.
That's why I've pretty much stopped, I've learned time and again in life that punching at a brick wall only leaves your hands bloody and broken lol. Let people think what they want, it's enough to know that they are wrong, we don't need them to (and will never get them to) realize it or admit it.
This is what I think of these self proclaimed "pillars of morality" . |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2558
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:28:00 -
[709] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:That's why I've pretty much stopped, I've learned time and again in life that punching at a brick wall only leaves your hands bloody and broken lol. Let people think what they want, it's enough to know that they are wrong, we don't need them to (and will never get them to) realize it or admit it. This is what I think of these self proclaimed "pillars of morality" . new topic: is mocking such people reflective of our personal character |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:33:00 -
[710] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Prejudiced. You keep saying that word but I think you do not know what it means. It means you're making judgment about people based on nothing but assumptions. Quote:Tells me nothing about the character? Wrong, it tells me that the person makes the choice to be a criminal. The observation is the action that took place. The person is enacting the action. GǪwhich still tells you nothing about the character of the person, only about the fact that the action took place in a game. You have a sharp disconnect between the two that you can only bridge by making assumptions. Any claim you make about the character is therefore pure prejudice. Quote:I'm not playing Poker, I'm playing EVE. Then you should probably stop trying to make any definitive claims about pokerGǪ hmm? Quote:You are a real person. You tell me lies saying you want to borrow from me. I believe you. You lied. You stole. From me. A real person. That really happened. The platform for which you chose to stole from me might not be, but the action you perform is what creates the reality. GǪwhich all happened within the confines of the magic circle where such things are part of the game. Thus, they only tell you about the game and your relationships and actions within it GÇö not about the character of the person out of game (unless, of course, you want to apply some assumed causal chain between the two and rely on nothing prejudice to make spurious claims about the morality and ethics of other players).
regarding prejudice, I gave you the exact definition and correlated how my statements are not prejudiced. Which you have proven in other posts, you define your statements differently based on who you're speaking with.
I've made no claims against any specific individuals without evidence.
I want specific evidence from you showing I make claims without evidence.
Since you've proven multiple times already you have a hard time with definitions, let me define evidence for you, consider it a . . . . Define Entervention Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
Also keep in mind people stating that they choose to steal from others counts as information |
|
Riyria Twinpeaks
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:36:00 -
[711] - Quote
I think Tippia's point is that the information is "people stating that they choose to steal from others in a game". You don't seem to assign any importance to the "in a game" part, but I don't think that's quite right. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:41:00 -
[712] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:I think Tippia's point is that the information is "people stating that they choose to steal from others in a game". You don't seem to assign any importance to the "in a game" part, but I don't think that's quite right.
The only real aspect of eve is how we treat each other. Despite the action taking place "in game" the person making that choice is "out of game". None of us can truly be in the game. It's online. inside computers. I can't fit in my modem.
The reality of the situation is that we're all real people making real choices. The consequences might take place in an imaginary made up land, but the reality is, those actions are happening because people choose to make them happen, and their taking place is inside the internet, but the intention is to effect and potentially affect the other person the chosen actions are being made against. |
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2076
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:44:00 -
[713] - Quote
To answer the OP it is quite simple , the average age of eve players is rather high.
As such most have a job , a wife , kids , basically anything that screws up your life and then to top it off a lot of us are around the 'midlife crises age' .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1076
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:47:00 -
[714] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mandarine wrote:It is self-evident that gankers and many scammers are not out to create a narrative developing within the magic circle, even though some of their deeds are relayed by press and fora as part of the EvE story. But what those deeds really are, are players using an online game as a platform to revel in the joy of having humiliated someone accross the internet. Do you have anything to support this claim?
Tippa REALLY likes to play play this game. And since I do to, I will give Mandarine some help here.
Link to one example (there are many such examples to support Mandarine's hypothesis) The Sociopaths of social media
Tippa likes to ask questions that require long, dreary and in depth answers that no one really wants to read in order to "support your claim". If you play this game and try and answer, she/he will find a dozen nuances in your wall of text (that no one really read in the first place) and do to your answer the same thing all over again. You will then be defending multiple ideas, each one requiring it's own lengthy and in depth definition. In short order you are so far off topic that your original point is out the door all together. Then Tippa has you. You idea is derailed.
And all she has to do is ask for "what do you have to suppost this claim" Or "Why?" Or any number of her commonly seen catch phrases.
It's called "playing debate team champion". You have to work hard and she has to exert almost no energy. You will thus always be predestine to lose if you do not understand the nature of the debate game.
Truth be told there are countless examples of Mandarine's claim all over the Internet, should one bother to take the time to even look they are so prevalent that they can't be missed. Whether you agree with them or not is a different subject all together, but they are clearly there. Tippa obviously has to be aware of their existence, as are most of us here. So when she asks you "what do you have to support this claim" she is just goading you and trying to screw you in a debate. She knows they are there, we all do.
So it should be on here to provide evidence that contradicts statements like these, instead of asking others to quote walls of text like the one I just made. Ultimately she is practicing the same behavior as described in the quotes (from the link) below. As are so many others trying so hard to tear apart this thread.
Quote:A self-described sociopath from Brazil writes, GÇ£The Internet is powerful because it forces us to a much more subtle and interesting game over people. ItGÇÖs the game of words, no facial expressions, no voice altering, no changing the way you carry yourself, just pure words creating havoc among our friends.GÇ¥
Quote:Sociopaths are adept at projecting their flaws on others while manipulating the people around them through selective flattery and distortions of the truth. They will commit libel, slander and defamation; they will engage in criminal threats and legally actionable falsehoods without a second thought;
Quote:Internet sociopaths are so experienced in online manipulation that what they do is akin to extortion. The sociopath will hector, harass and harangue a victim until that victim grows weary of the conflict.
5 quote limit so here is one more (Tippa is that you?) "This is precisely what the sociopath wants. Once he has beaten you down and convinced you to be his GÇ£friend,GÇ¥ he will continue to sow havoc because he enjoys the reflected heat and light of flame wars. He basks in the glow of negative attention, perhaps even preferring it to the false positive attention his victims offer by way of appeasement."
Signed, Anti-troll extraordinary (returned from the dead) Eternum Praetorian
|
Riyria Twinpeaks
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:50:00 -
[715] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:I think Tippia's point is that the information is "people stating that they choose to steal from others in a game". You don't seem to assign any importance to the "in a game" part, but I don't think that's quite right. The only real aspect of eve is how we treat each other. Despite the action taking place "in game" the person making that choice is "out of game". None of us can truly be in the game. It's online. inside computers. I can't fit in my modem. The reality of the situation is that we're all real people making real choices. The consequences might take place in an imaginary made up land, but the reality is, those actions are happening because people choose to make them happen, and their taking place is inside the internet, but the intention is to effect and potentially affect the other person the chosen actions are being made against.
But if the consequences of an action differ based on whether the action happens in a game or not, then the decision-making which led to the action may be different as well.
So, let's make an extreme example: - The consequence of losing your property in a game is that you need to do some more quests/missions to regain the property, but you are having fun doing missions anyway. - The consequence of losing your property outside the game is that you fall in debts, need an additional job and suffer a considerable loss of your quality of life for a long time.
Then stealing from you in a game can be considered a trivial offense compared to stealing from you outside of the game.
Now while the example was extreme, there is still a difference, so imo you can't necessarily reason that people choosing to do the first, would also do the latter. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:54:00 -
[716] - Quote
oops.. sorry. wrng button :x |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19669
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:55:00 -
[717] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:regarding prejudice, I gave you the exact definition and correlated how my statements are not prejudiced. You only showed that the first step of your statements are not prejudiced. You conveniently skipped over the part where you turn these contextual observations into a judgement of the real-world character and moral of the person.
Quote:I've made no claims against any specific individuals without evidence. Aside fromGǪ GÇ£ if you're willing to attempt to try and inflict losses on other people who are not looking to competitively wager their resources against yours, then you are also capable of trying to inflict losses on people offline as well.GÇ¥ GÇ£Thief in game, thief out as well.GÇ¥ GÇ£I think it's pretty obvious the type of person you are. One not worth interacting with.GÇ¥ GÇ£When you choose to force unwanted pvp on someone, that's what defines you as negative, lesser person.GÇ¥ GÇ£[-¦] believe that your desire to be mean to others, based on you making those choices in a game that is all about choices, is a perfectly valid platform for me to make an assumption on your character as a person.GÇ¥ GÇ£I, while standing in the middle of the pile of garbage that is the personas you wish to project, will consider myself above you for choosing to partake in the actions of the petty.GÇ¥ GÇ£You are the representation of your actions.GÇ¥ GÇ£It makes you a terrible person because you don't have to do it.GÇ¥ GÇ£if you're a person who's objective is to inflict misery and suffering on others for your personal gain, you are lesser human being, an animal unworthy of this gift of consciousness and human intelligence.GÇ¥ GÇ£I'll concern myself with those who've proven to be good, worthy, respectable people.GÇ¥ GÇ£People who do bad things are bad people.GÇ¥
GǪand I'm not even a quarter through the list. All of these are made without evidence. All of them are just you spouting your deeply ignorant and unproven assumptions in the form of judgement over people's character. All of it is prejudice.
Quote:Also keep in mind people stating that they choose to steal from others counts as information GǪabout what they do in game. It tells you nothing about the character of the person unless you can provide a plausible and solid causal chain that connect the two. You can't. You just assume. You pre-judge based on something irrelevant.
Quote:The reality of the situation is that we're all real people making real choices. GǪabout their actions in a game. Those actions have no bearing on their character outside of the game. If you want to claim something about their character based on their in-game behaviour, you have to establish a connection between the two, which you can't. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4902
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:55:00 -
[718] - Quote
Dude, did you really just link something from WnD ( a seriously crackpot right wing site that makes all of us of that particular political orientation look like raving lunatics) as proof of something?
That's like trying to prove something by linking a National Enquirer or Onion article. Hell, the Onion would be a more credible source.
To everyone else, do people like this know they're batshit crazy or is it just us? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19669
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 13:59:00 -
[719] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:5 quote limit so here is one more That's a nice list of quotes about sociopaths. Do you have anything that relates to gankers and scammers GÇö you know, the claim he was making?
Do you have anything that discusses the topic rather than my person?
Quote:Signed, Anti-troll extraordinary No, excessive use of ad hominems is not GÇ£anti-trollGÇ¥. Quite the opposite, in fact. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:01:00 -
[720] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:I think Tippia's point is that the information is "people stating that they choose to steal from others in a game". You don't seem to assign any importance to the "in a game" part, but I don't think that's quite right. The only real aspect of eve is how we treat each other. Despite the action taking place "in game" the person making that choice is "out of game". None of us can truly be in the game. It's online. inside computers. I can't fit in my modem. The reality of the situation is that we're all real people making real choices. The consequences might take place in an imaginary made up land, but the reality is, those actions are happening because people choose to make them happen, and their taking place is inside the internet, but the intention is to effect and potentially affect the other person the chosen actions are being made against. But if the consequences of an action differ based on whether the action happens in a game or not, then the decision-making which led to the action may be different as well. So, let's make an extreme example: - The consequence of losing your property in a game is that you need to do some more quests/missions to regain the property, but you are having fun doing missions - The consequence of losing your property outside the game is that you fall in debts, need an additional job and suffer a considerable loss of your quality of life for a long time Then stealing from you in a game can be considered a trivial offense compared to stealing from you outside of the game. Now while the example was extreme, there is still a difference, so imo you can't necessarily reason that people choosing to do the first, would also do the latter.
You are correct. I cannot state that someone who has stolen from me in game will steal from me out of game.
I cannot possibly predict the future. I cannot possibly know absolutely everything someone is capable of.
What I can do though, is say that based off of all the interactions I've had with a certain person, that at a specific point of time, they chose to exploit me for their personal enjoyment or benefit. At my expense. Now, as we've established, I cannot "know" that they will do this to me in person.
What I can know is this:
That this person is the type who makes the choice to exploit me. How far does it stretch? Is it a gaurantee he'll do it out of game as well? No, of course not. But so far, he's evidenced to me once already that he's capable of dehumanizing me in one context. Knowing I can't know everything, how can I say for certain that he will not do it "again" out of game as well?
It's playing it safe. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... well sorry, there will be no twice, you've proven you're not worthy of an opportunity for a "shame on me" ever under any circumstance. We're done. In and Out. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:05:00 -
[721] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:regarding prejudice, I gave you the exact definition and correlated how my statements are not prejudiced. You only showed that the first step of your statements are not prejudiced. You conveniently skipped over the part where you turn these contextual observations into a judgement of the real-world character and moral of the person. Quote:I've made no claims against any specific individuals without evidence. Aside fromGǪ GÇ£ if you're willing to attempt to try and inflict losses on other people who are not looking to competitively wager their resources against yours, then you are also capable of trying to inflict losses on people offline as well.GÇ¥ GÇ£Thief in game, thief out as well.GÇ¥ GÇ£I think it's pretty obvious the type of person you are. One not worth interacting with.GÇ¥ GÇ£When you choose to force unwanted pvp on someone, that's what defines you as negative, lesser person.GÇ¥ GÇ£[-¦] believe that your desire to be mean to others, based on you making those choices in a game that is all about choices, is a perfectly valid platform for me to make an assumption on your character as a person.GÇ¥ GÇ£I, while standing in the middle of the pile of garbage that is the personas you wish to project, will consider myself above you for choosing to partake in the actions of the petty.GÇ¥ GÇ£You are the representation of your actions.GÇ¥ GÇ£It makes you a terrible person because you don't have to do it.GÇ¥ GÇ£if you're a person who's objective is to inflict misery and suffering on others for your personal gain, you are lesser human being, an animal unworthy of this gift of consciousness and human intelligence.GÇ¥ GÇ£I'll concern myself with those who've proven to be good, worthy, respectable people.GÇ¥ GÇ£People who do bad things are bad people.GÇ¥ GǪand I'm not even a quarter through the list. All of these are made without evidence. All of them are just you spouting your deeply ignorant and unproven assumptions in the form of judgement over people's character. All of it is prejudice. Quote:Also keep in mind people stating that they choose to steal from others counts as information GǪabout what they do in game. It tells you nothing about the character of the person unless you can provide a plausible and solid causal chain that connect the two. You can't. You just assume. You pre-judge based on something irrelevant. Quote:The reality of the situation is that we're all real people making real choices. GǪabout their actions in a game. Those actions have no bearing on their character outside of the game. If you want to claim something about their character based on their in-game behaviour, you have to establish a connection between the two, which you can't.
Potentially, every one of those statements could be correct. I explain the reasoning in my last post. You may, no you've probably already read it.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19669
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:07:00 -
[722] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:What I can do though, is say that based off of all the interactions I've had with a certain person, that at a specific point of time, they chose to exploit me for their personal enjoyment or benefit. At my expense. Now, as we've established, I cannot "know" that they will do this to me in person.
What I can know is this:
That this person is the type who makes the choice to exploit me. GǪin the game, all in accordance with the established rules of that game, which provides you with no basis for rendering any kind of judgement about the morals or character of the person.
His choice to do exploit you in this game is no different from his choice to bluff you in poker, and tells you exactly as much about his out-of-game character: squat.
Quote:Potentially, every one of those statements could be correct. GÇ£Could beGÇ¥ isn't good enough to render any kind of judgement. You just flat-out assume that they are with no basis for it. This makes your conclusions and your claims prejudiced. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1076
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:07:00 -
[723] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:5 quote limit so here is one more That's a nice list of quotes about sociopaths. Do you have anything that relates to gankers and scammers GÇö you know, the claim he was making? Do you have anything that discusses the topic rather than my person? Quote:Signed, Anti-troll extraordinary No, excessive use of ad hominems is not GÇ£anti-trollGÇ¥. Quite the opposite, in fact.
If you do not see the potential connection between sociopaths, forum trolls, gankers and scammer then you are pretending to be an idiot on an Internet spaceship's forum.
Don't get angry Tippa...
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19669
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:11:00 -
[724] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:If you do not see the potential connection GǣPotentialGǥGǪ riiiiight. That's a particularly weak prosecutor's fallacy you have there. How much of that potential is realised? Are the scammers and gankers sociopaths or is it only the case that they potentially could be?
SoGǪ do you have anything that actually relates to gankers and scammers? Do you have any kind of argument that isn't an attack on my person? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
48
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:13:00 -
[725] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It tells you nothing about the character of the person unless you can provide a plausible and solid causal chain that connect the two. You can't. You just assume. You pre-judge based on something irrelevant. If you steal from me, it proves that at one point in time you made the choice to act on your desire to steal from me for your personal benefit. That's not an assumption, that's a fact. If you steal from me, you stole from me.
Quote: about their actions in a game. Those actions have no bearing on their character outside of the game. If you want to claim something about their character based on their in-game behaviour, you have to establish a connection between the two, which you can't.
This is where you are wrong again. Those actions have no bearing on their character outside of the game?
Not necessarily. Someone who chooses to steal from people in EVE could very well be a thief out of game as well. There is no 100% way to prove that the person is not also a thief out of game as well. Now considering when I make my choices as to who i do and do not wish to associate with, because you've stolen from me, you've already given me proof that you will make the choice to steal. I cannot say that since you stole from me in game, you will not steal from me out of game. You can't say that either.
if I stole from you, who is to say I wouldn't steal from you out of game as well?
Because of this uncertainty, all I have to make my decisions are how you've presented yourself to me. Well, you've already demonstrated on occassion that you will take my things and laugh at me, calling me stupid for trusting you. Should I really take the chance to trust you in person as well? What if it's still all just a game to you? I cannot know it. It's impossible to know, so to make the decisions which will best protect me from possible grief, I have to not trust you. To do so would be, imo, really stupid.
|
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2559
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:16:00 -
[726] - Quote
grr tippia, asking for people to substantiate their statements, and giving them every opportunity to do so |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19669
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:21:00 -
[727] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:If you steal from me, it proves that at one point in time you made the choice to act on your desire to steal from me for your personal benefit. That's not an assumption, that's a fact. If you steal from me, you stole from me. GǪand no matter how much you try to dodge the fact, you still can't render any judgment on the character of the person based on this in-game event.
Quote:This is where you are wrong again. Those actions have no bearing on their character outside of the game? Not unless you can establish a solid connection between the two, which you can't.
Quote:Not necessarily. Someone who chooses to steal from people in EVE could very well be a thief out of game as well. GǪand that would be a neat coincidence. Coincidence and Gǣnot necessarilyGǥ are not a solid foundation for making generalised claims about people across the magic circle. You have to establish that there is an actual connection and that it holds true for everything but the most exceptional and exceedingly rare cases.
Quote:if I stole from you, who is to say I wouldn't steal from you out of game as well? Since there is no reason to suspect that you're not a moral and upstanding person with a sense of right and wrong, I'd say that you wouldn't for much the same reason I don't go around assuming that random people would steal from me.
Quote:Well, you've already demonstrated on occassion that you will take my things and laugh at me, calling me stupid for trusting you. No. You've only demonstrated that you beat me in a game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:22:00 -
[728] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:(...)
You are correct. I cannot state that someone who has stolen from me in game will steal from me out of game.
I cannot possibly predict the future. I cannot possibly know absolutely everything someone is capable of.
What I can do though, is say that based off of all the interactions I've had with a certain person, that at a specific point of time, they chose to exploit me for their personal enjoyment or benefit. At my expense. Now, as we've established, I cannot "know" that they will do this to me in person.
What I can know is this:
That this person is the type who makes the choice to exploit me. How far does it stretch? Is it a gaurantee he'll do it out of game as well? No, of course not. But so far, he's evidenced to me once already that he's capable of dehumanizing me in one context. Knowing I can't know everything, how can I say for certain that he will not do it "again" out of game as well?
It's playing it safe. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... well sorry, there will be no twice, you've proven you're not worthy of an opportunity for a "shame on me" ever under any circumstance. We're done. In and Out.
That's fair enough, I guess. As long as you're not going around accusing them of being "people who steal" without context or stuff like that. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19669
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:24:00 -
[729] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I am not coming up with the connection, others have. Excellent. Then you can link this connection that they've made between in-game ganking and scamming and real-world GÇ£sociopathyGÇ¥ (which, by the way, doesn't really exist any more).
Quote:The medium you participate in is an essential element in the sociopaths expression. Is it a causal element? Is it a defining characteristic?
Quote:As for attacking your person, I have not. GǪaside from the ad hominem you previously engaged in and your insinuation that I may be an idiot.
SoGǪ do you have anything that actually relates to gankers and scammers? Do you have any kind of argument that isn't an attack on my person? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1078
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:28:00 -
[730] - Quote
I cannot be goaded into linking an even larger wall of text than I already have. There is far to much content on the interwebs to do so.
Anyone who has even a passing interest can read all about sociopaths and their interactions on the Internet. You can find it here on the Internet or at your local library. Pretending that it does not exist does not make it not exist. The information is there. If you have a differing opinion than I suggest you state your reasons why instead of trying to makes others think that the reference material is non-existent.
|
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:32:00 -
[731] - Quote
You can say what you want. You can view my choices as incorrect. So far you've established yourself, to me, as someone who's opinion not to take into consideration when making the choices of how I live my life.
I get to judge based off of my observations. If I observe you steal from me, I may come to whatever conclusion I see fit. I'll tell you right now ahead of time, that conclusion will be "Never trust this person under any circumstance, in game or out".
I have established a potential solid connection. Considering that it is impossible for us to fully know everything about anyone, all we can act on is the portion of information people wish to present to us.
I do not have to establish a solid connection, because it's all based on speculation. Using your logic, a wall street trader should never invest in a stock because he cannot know with 100% certainty if his expected outcome will materialize. Based on your logic, no one can speculate. What's the weather going to be tomorrow? I don't know, its february and we're in canada. My guess is really really hot? Well since we don't know for certain lets bring swim shorts and winter jackets!
using your logic, you would trust me out of game even after stealing from you in game? Well then, on an unrelated note may I borrow $200? You can pay pal it to me, I'll give you the address in a PM if you say yes.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19669
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:36:00 -
[732] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I cannot be goaded into linking an even larger wall of text than I already have. So I take it you don't actually want to prove your claim, then.
The original assertion was that gankers and scammers only do it to humiliate other players. You offered a treatise (of dubious origins) about GÇ£sociopathyGÇ¥ on the internet. You then insinuated without proof that the two are connected, and now you're trying to shirk the responsibility to establish that one actually exists.
Quote:Anyone who has even a passing interest can read all about sociopaths and their interactions on the Internet. You can find it here on the Internet or at your local library. Pretending that it does not exist does not make it not exist. The information is there. Good. Then you should have absolutely no problems providing it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1079
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:38:00 -
[733] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:As for attacking your person, I have not. GǪaside from the ad hominem you previously engaged in and your insinuation that I may be an idiot.
Quoting out of context? That is so unlike you (add sarcasm)
I insinuated that you were pretending to be one on an Internet spaceship's forum for the benefit of your argument. I never said that you were an idiot in truth. I in fact suggested that you were very good at what you do. Stupid people are not as good as you are at the game of debate team champion, fact manipulation and pulling the rugs out from under people.
Don't get angry... Anger makes you look bad in a debate, amiright?
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1079
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:39:00 -
[734] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I cannot be goaded into linking an even larger wall of text than I already have. So I take it you don't actually want to prove your claim, then. The original assertion was that gankers and scammers only do it to humiliate other players. You offered a treatise (of dubious origins) about GÇ£sociopathyGÇ¥ on the internet. You then insinuated without proof that the two are connected, and now you're trying to shirk the responsibility to establish that one actually exists. Quote:Anyone who has even a passing interest can read all about sociopaths and their interactions on the Internet. You can find it here on the Internet or at your local library. Pretending that it does not exist does not make it not exist. The information is there. Good. Then you should have absolutely no problems providing it.
Sorry, I am not about to quote the content of 44,000 results in .22 seconds an the eve forums. But I do invite you to read a book anytime you like
You never know what you may learn
Bai now, I'll be back to play with you further after work. Kiss <3
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:41:00 -
[735] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I cannot be goaded into linking an even larger wall of text than I already have. So I take it you don't actually want to prove your claim, then. The original assertion was that gankers and scammers only do it to humiliate other players. You offered a treatise (of dubious origins) about GÇ£sociopathyGÇ¥ on the internet. You then insinuated without proof that the two are connected, and now you're trying to shirk the responsibility to establish that one actually exists. Quote:Anyone who has even a passing interest can read all about sociopaths and their interactions on the Internet. You can find it here on the Internet or at your local library. Pretending that it does not exist does not make it not exist. The information is there. Good. Then you should have absolutely no problems providing it. Sorry, I am not about to quote the content of 44,000 results in .22 seconds an the eve forums. But I do invite you to read a book anytime you like You never know what you may learn
Is that what he does? Sit around and pretend he's oblivious? I see his name all over the forums. He would have to have something wrong with him if he doesn't see what is staring him in the face.
Is this for real? |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:45:00 -
[736] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You can say what you want. You can view my choices as incorrect. So far you've established yourself, to me, as someone who's opinion not to take into consideration when making the choices of how I live my life.
I get to judge based off of my observations. If I observe you steal from me, I may come to whatever conclusion I see fit. I'll tell you right now ahead of time, that conclusion will be "Never trust this person under any circumstance, in game or out".
I have established a potential solid connection. Considering that it is impossible for us to fully know everything about anyone, all we can act on is the portion of information people wish to present to us.
I do not have to establish a solid connection, because it's all based on speculation. Using your logic, a wall street trader should never invest in a stock because he cannot know with 100% certainty if his expected outcome will materialize. Based on your logic, no one can speculate. What's the weather going to be tomorrow? I don't know, its february and we're in canada. My guess is really really hot? Well since we don't know for certain lets bring swim shorts and winter jackets!
using your logic, you would trust me out of game even after stealing from you in game? Well then, on an unrelated note may I borrow $200? You can pay pal it to me, I'll give you the address in a PM if you say yes.
Hmmm.. I can observe that the word Divine means "of, from, or like a God". Quetzalcoatl is a God. Quetzalcoatl demanded human sacrifice. I have now established a potential solid connection that you demand human sacrifice & are a feathered serpent, therefore I should run away screaming in terror.
I shall now run away screaming in terror. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19669
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:46:00 -
[737] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I get to judge based off of my observations. GǪand no-one has claimed otherwise. What I'm saying is that if you take your observations on some specific characteristic and transpose those into a judgement of something completely unrelated, that judgement is prejudiced. It is based on nothing but your assumptions about the transposition itself.
If you want to make it something more than prejudice, you have to demonstrate that the transposition is actually accurate.
Quote:I have established a potential solid connection. No, you really haven't. You've hypothesised that there might be just that: a potential for a connection. That is about as weak as it gets.
Quote:I do not have to establish a solid connection, because it's all based on speculation. Yes you have to, or you will have to accept the fact that it's baseless; that you're only making assumptions; that it is pure prejudice.
Quote:Using your logic, a wall street trader should never invest in a stock because he cannot know with 100% certainty if his expected outcome will materialize. Based on your logic, no one can speculate. What's the weather going to be tomorrow? GǪexcept, of course, that that's not my logic. That's just some strawman you just erected. The Wall Street trader can invest because he has established a pattern. The meteorologist can predict the weather because he's done the same. But more importantly: both are aware of their model and express it in terms of likelihoods.
They do not render judgement GÇö they predict with a degree of certainty.
Quote:using your logic, you would trust me out of game even after stealing from you in game? Why wouldn't I? It was a game, after all, and I can trust my friends just fine even though they do that on a weekly basis. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19670
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:49:00 -
[738] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Sorry, I am not about to quote the content of 44,000 results in .22 seconds an the eve forums. But I do invite you to read a book anytime you like Good news: I didn't ask you for 44k results. I just asked you to provide one. If it's that common, you really shouldn't have any problems doing so. So I take it you don't actually want to prove your claim, then, since you still don't (or is that GÇ£can'tGÇ¥?). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Lawson Finch
Sharke and Finch LLP
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 14:49:00 -
[739] - Quote
@Divine Entervention
In this thread you make racist remarks about the Gallente. I will judge from this observation that you are also a racist out of game.
That's how it works, right?
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:01:00 -
[740] - Quote
Thanks Eternum, I saved your description of Tippia-¦s debate behavior for future use, the cap fits, let him wear it!
And let-¦s have a few quotes from an enlightening interview...
"Well, a griefer is somebody who basically enjoys having fun at other peoples expense. So, a highsec griefer is exactly that: Somebody who griefs in high sec. This means all sorts of things. The array of activities that you could consider high sec griefing is quite expansive. Everything from can flipping, (Which still works to a degree), to safaris (Corp killing), and even newer emergent forms like duel spamming"
"People in this game want to ruin your experience, and you need to be careful."
"And, when people are not polite to us, there are always the tears. I don't know why, but something about getting told to get cancer and die just makes my day."
http://touringneweden.blogspot.fi/2013/06/an-interview-with-highsec-griefer.html
And to keep to the point of this thread: forum wars being the continuation of what happens ingame, it-¦s no surprise that the kind of people who relish the emotional disarray of others through certain actions in internet spaceships, will demonstrate the same kind of unhealthy behavior on the related forum. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:02:00 -
[741] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
except, of course, that that's not my logic. That's just some strawman you just erected. The Wall Street trader can invest because he has established a pattern. The meteorologist can predict the weather because he's done the same. But more importantly: both are aware of their model and express it in terms of likelihoods.
They do not render judgement GÇö they predict with a degree of certainty.
So based on the wall street traders observations, he's created what he's established as a pattern.
Based on the meteorologists observations, he's created what he's established as a pattern.
These patterns cannot 100% be always accurate.
Yet that's what you're demanding of me. 100% accuracy regarding the likely hood of direct, defacto correlation of in game and out of game crime.
That's not possible under any circumstance. If you wish for me to provide 100% proof that someone will steal from me if he's stolen from me in game, then on the other hand you have to prove how it's 100% proof that he will not steal from me.
I can't 100% predict anything regarding another person's potential, to do so would be clairvoyance. You're demanding super natural acts.
Now, because no one is capable of absolute certainty, that doesn't mean we can't suppose based on the information provided us.
The thief has given me information, evidence, his stealing from me. He took my property, but he gave me the knowledge that he is a person who chooses to do immoral acts. I know nothing of him other than how he portrays himself to me. How has he portrayed himself to me? That some times he views me as someone it's OK to deceive and steal from. Because of this, I cannot know for absolute certainty that he will not do so out of game as well. He's given me evidence that I cannot trust him under at least some circumstances, which means since there is one instance, there could be a pattern in development, that instance could extrapolate.
IMO, someone who establishes himself as a person who will prey upon you in game should not be trusted, because he's already proven within the confines of a game, he'll steal from you, but can you know with absolute certainty where the game ends with him regarding human interaction? Better to play it safe. You don't need that thief anyways. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:04:00 -
[742] - Quote
Lawson Finch wrote:@Divine Entervention In this thread you make racist remarks about the Gallente. I will judge from this observation that you are also a racist out of game. That's how it works, right?
You are correct. Out of game, I absolutely despise every gallente I meet.
I would punch a gallente in the face and laugh at him for smelling bad and being inferior. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2559
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:04:00 -
[743] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Sorry, I am not about to quote the content of 44,000 results in .22 seconds an the eve forums. But I do invite you to read a book anytime you like You never know what you may learn the only book i've read is clifford the big red dog and it's a better source than anything you've provided |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2559
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:06:00 -
[744] - Quote
if anyone is wondering if i am a big red dog irl due to my choice of literature the answer is no btw |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
107879
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:10:00 -
[745] - Quote
Survey: Online trolls are 'everyday sadists'
Slate: Internet Trolls Really Are Horrible People: Narcissistic, Machiavellian, psychopathic, and sadistic
Research suggests sadism spurs internet trolls
"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1959
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:11:00 -
[746] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Lawson Finch wrote:@Divine Entervention In this thread you make racist remarks about the Gallente. I will judge from this observation that you are also a racist out of game. That's how it works, right? You are correct. Out of game, I absolutely despise every gallente I meet. I would punch a gallente in the face and laugh at him for smelling bad and being inferior.
yes, and out of game I would totally steal from an Eve character, but not in real life. See how that works?
If Eve players were so horrible there'd be a lot more theft and murder at fanfest, but its actually a place where people who hate and kill each other in game share a beer and have fun together over a common interest. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Oblivion King
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:13:00 -
[747] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I cannot be goaded into linking an even larger wall of text than I already have. So I take it you don't actually want to prove your claim, then. The original assertion was that gankers and scammers only do it to humiliate other players. You offered a treatise (of dubious origins) about GÇ£sociopathyGÇ¥ on the internet. You then insinuated without proof that the two are connected, and now you're trying to shirk the responsibility to establish that one actually exists. Quote:Anyone who has even a passing interest can read all about sociopaths and their interactions on the Internet. You can find it here on the Internet or at your local library. Pretending that it does not exist does not make it not exist. The information is there. Good. Then you should have absolutely no problems providing it. Sorry, I am not about to quote the content of 44,000 results in .22 seconds an the eve forums. But I do invite you to read a book anytime you like You never know what you may learn Bai now, I'll be back to play with you further after work. Kiss <3
so you don't even say what this books name is, nor link to where we might find it, or linke to page of this wall of text, because you know a 44k wall of text (omg 44k words how can I ever read that ) you just say that "I have evidence but i'm not gonna show it" good old interwebs. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Backseat Promises
1209
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:14:00 -
[748] - Quote
Chihiro Chugakusei wrote:I've posted on these forums a few times over the years, and I've never encountered anything but hostility, negativity, insults, etc. What the fk is up with this? I've been vocal in many gaming communities, but have never have I felt so hated as I do on these forums. You are right - it-¦s adoreable - isn-¦t it old chap? Now GTFO.
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
|
Lawson Finch
Sharke and Finch LLP
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:14:00 -
[749] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Lawson Finch wrote:@Divine Entervention In this thread you make racist remarks about the Gallente. I will judge from this observation that you are also a racist out of game. That's how it works, right? You are correct. Out of game, I absolutely despise every gallente I meet. I would punch a gallente in the face and laugh at him for smelling bad and being inferior.
Not only a racist but one who follows his bigotry up with violence. I'm glad I don't know you in RL.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:14:00 -
[750] - Quote
Wow so this means all the people trolling me because I'm trying to debate a topic that is important to me are most likely characterized by personality traits that fall in the so-called Dark Tetrad: Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others), narcissism (egotism and self-obsession), psychopathy (the lack of remorse and empathy), and sadism (pleasure in the suffering of others).
I see now why you're all trying so hard to troll me, because your brains are broken. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:15:00 -
[751] - Quote
Lawson Finch wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Lawson Finch wrote:@Divine Entervention In this thread you make racist remarks about the Gallente. I will judge from this observation that you are also a racist out of game. That's how it works, right? You are correct. Out of game, I absolutely despise every gallente I meet. I would punch a gallente in the face and laugh at him for smelling bad and being inferior. Not only a racist but one who follows his bigotry up with violence. I'm glad I don't know you in RL.
Are you gallente? If you are, you should be glad you don't know me RL. You being gallente, and me a superior caldari, I would have to dominate and subjugate you, considering it's the natural way of our peoples. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19670
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:17:00 -
[752] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:So based on the wall street traders observations, he's created what he's established as a pattern. Based on the meteorologists observations, he's created what he's established as a pattern. These patterns cannot 100% be always accurate.
Yet that's what you're demanding of me. Nope. I'm demanding of you any pattern that connects the two. You keep skipping that part and instead jump directly from one observation to an unrelated conclusion.
Quote:The thief has given me information, evidence, his stealing from me. GǪin a game, which tells you nothing about his morals or character outside of the game. You can make all kinds of assumptions, but that just makes your conclusion prejudice.
Quote:IMO, someone who establishes himself as a person who will prey upon you in game should not be trusted, because he's already proven within the confines of a game, he'll steal from you, but can you know with absolute certainty where the game ends with him regarding human interaction? So basically, you're just being a misanthrope. Assume the worst of everyone because why not.
Mandarine wrote:http://touringneweden.blogspot.fi/2013/06/an-interview-with-highsec-griefer.html
And to keep to the point of this thread: forum wars being the continuation of what happens ingame, it-¦s no surprise that the kind of people who relish the emotional disarray of others through certain actions in internet spaceships, will demonstrate the same kind of unhealthy behavior on the related forum. GǪand that's a nice, if subjective, view of griefing. But what about the scammers and gankers? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2559
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:20:00 -
[753] - Quote
kudos to you but did you have to save the git incapable of making his own argument |
Lawson Finch
Sharke and Finch LLP
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:20:00 -
[754] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Are you gallente? If you are, you should be glad you don't know me RL. You being gallente, and me a superior caldari, I would have to dominate and subjugate you, considering it's the natural way of our peoples.
So your racism is confined to just being in the game? The fact that you could hate a fictional race has no correlation to your capacity to hate a race in RL?
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:22:00 -
[755] - Quote
Tippia, if it is not you choosing to make a choice, who is it? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
49
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:24:00 -
[756] - Quote
Lawson Finch wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Are you gallente? If you are, you should be glad you don't know me RL. You being gallente, and me a superior caldari, I would have to dominate and subjugate you, considering it's the natural way of our peoples. So your racism is confined to just being in the game? The fact that you could hate a fictional race has no correlation to your capacity to hate a race in RL?
No, I will absolutely decimate a gallente IRL.
Put a gallente in front of me and see what happens.
What about this isn't computing with you? |
Oblivion King
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:25:00 -
[757] - Quote
this whole argument is ******* ********, next thing you're gonna say people who played counter strike and picked terrorists have a passion for bombing others.
And you think people who play an online GAME are sociopaths/psychopaths you realize how stupid that sounds? do you even know what those words mean, or that they would even waste their time on a game like EvE to fulfill their "desires" what they can do much easier and much harmful in a myriad of other ways.
And I agree trolls are actually the most harmful (i'm not talking about the funny trolls but the subtle ones who go out of their way to make people fight and hate each other, and not just online..) |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1959
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:25:00 -
[758] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Wow so this means all the people trolling me because I'm trying to debate a topic that is important to me are most likely characterized by personality traits that fall in the so-called Dark Tetrad: Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others), narcissism (egotism and self-obsession), psychopathy (the lack of remorse and empathy), and sadism (pleasure in the suffering of others). I see now why you're all trying so hard to troll me, because your brains are broken.
When one guy is arguing a point well known to be controversial and getting lots of responses, then if anyone's a troll, its gonna be that guy, so 10/10, kudos, ect, you heartless bastard. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19670
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:27:00 -
[759] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia, if it is not you choosing to make a choice, who is it? Doesn't matter. What matters is that you have no way of transposing my in-game choices into real-world morals and character. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2561
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:28:00 -
[760] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:kudos to you but did you have to save the git incapable of making his own argument I'll add that there's no logical link between these and the claim of 'a person who plays as a pirate in EVE is an antisocial person in real life'. Until an actual argument is provided, the reasonable assumption is that any identified group or playstyle in EVE Online will have the same percentage of antisocial people or people with strong antisocial traits as the general real-world population, and that these people are equally distributed in EVE Online vOv
The people in this thread making contrary claims have basically been stomping their feet and crying "BUT I SAY" so far |
|
Oblivion King
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:28:00 -
[761] - Quote
this thread like all the others has reached past it's due age, again this should have been locked since page 1, we all knew where it was going.. cmon ISDs.. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:29:00 -
[762] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Wow so this means all the people trolling me because I'm trying to debate a topic that is important to me are most likely characterized by personality traits that fall in the so-called Dark Tetrad: Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others), narcissism (egotism and self-obsession), psychopathy (the lack of remorse and empathy), and sadism (pleasure in the suffering of others). I see now why you're all trying so hard to troll me, because your brains are broken. When one guy is arguing a point well known to be controversial and getting lots of responses, then if anyone's a troll, its gonna be that guy, so 10/10, kudos, ect, you heartless bastard.
That's an absurd statement considering that what I am arguing for is for people to stop trying to grief each other. That's the exact opposite of someone who is psychotic/sociopath/sadistic. You trying to paint me as one when there's way more evidence that I'm debating a topic I enjoy, is you trying to troll me. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:31:00 -
[763] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Tippia, if it is not you choosing to make a choice, who is it? Doesn't matter. What matters is that you have no way of transposing my in-game choices into real-world morals and character.
I do not wish to talk to you in large multi-paragraph, entire page quote fests anymore so we're only doing short statements now.
Answer the question or you lose. You do not wish to answer it because you know once we establish what we both know that ultimately we are the ones choosing to make those choices, that I'll have a direct path to answering your question, which you absolutely do not want to happen. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19670
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:33:00 -
[764] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:That's an absurd statement considering that what I am arguing for is for people to treat everyone nicely. You're arguing that people who don't play the way you like are subhuman and immoral GÇö a point that is well known to be controversial and get lots of responses.
Quote:You trying to paint me as one when there's GǪvery little to suggest otherwise.
Divine Entervention wrote:Answer the question or you lose. I answered your question by rejecting its relevance and premise: you're setting up a false dichotomy. So I guess I won already. If you have a direct path to answering my question, just answer it. No need to dance around. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Lawson Finch
Sharke and Finch LLP
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:36:00 -
[765] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:No, I will absolutely decimate a gallente IRL.
Put a gallente in front of me and see what happens.
What about this isn't computing with you?
It computes just fine with me.
If you're capable of being violently racist towards a fictional race, then you're potentially violently racist to RL races.
It's your logic I'm using here, so it should make sense to you.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:36:00 -
[766] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:That's an absurd statement considering that what I am arguing for is for people to treat everyone nicely. You're arguing that people who don't play the way you like are subhuman and immoral GÇö a point that is well known to be controversial and get lots of responses. Quote:You trying to paint me as one when there's GǪvery little to suggest otherwise.
People who wish to upset others for their own enjoyment are miserable people I would wish to have no direct interaction with. If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19670
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:38:00 -
[767] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:People who wish to upset others for their own enjoyment are miserable people I would wish to have no direct interaction with. If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid. That's nice and all. You're still being prejudiced against people based on in-game behaviour, and you're being very abusive towards them based on these prejudices.
Do you honestly think that accusing people of being subhuman and immoral would not be controversial? Did you really expect that it wouldn't generate a response? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2561
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:39:00 -
[768] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid. hope you never giggled watching a 'funniest home videos' tv show |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:39:00 -
[769] - Quote
Lawson Finch wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:No, I will absolutely decimate a gallente IRL.
Put a gallente in front of me and see what happens.
What about this isn't computing with you? It computes just fine with me. If you're capable of being violently racist towards a fictional race, then you're potentially violently racist to RL races. It's your logic I'm using here, so it should make sense to you.
I could potentially be anything.
Are you saying that based on the evidence that since I am likely to be racist towards a make believe race, that I am capable of being racist to real life races as well? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:40:00 -
[770] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid. hope you never giggled watching a 'funniest home videos' tv show I've yet to see an AFV where anyone involved was suffering.
Link me an AFV clip that distinctly has the AFV logo that can be cross referenced with the AFV library of any video of someone suffering.
suffering. |
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1588
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:43:00 -
[771] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dude, did you really just link something from WnD ( a seriously crackpot right wing site that makes all of us of that particular political orientation look like raving lunatics) as proof of something?
That's like trying to prove something by linking a National Enquirer or Onion article. Hell, the Onion would be a more credible source.
To everyone else, do people like this know they're batshit crazy or is it just us?
Confirming that he does not know he's batshit crazy. batshit stupid.
No one that is thinks they are. As such there is no point in any discussion with him (but I do hope he keeps posting). "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Lawson Finch
Sharke and Finch LLP
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:46:00 -
[772] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Lawson Finch wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:No, I will absolutely decimate a gallente IRL.
Put a gallente in front of me and see what happens.
What about this isn't computing with you? It computes just fine with me. If you're capable of being violently racist towards a fictional race, then you're potentially violently racist to RL races. It's your logic I'm using here, so it should make sense to you. I could potentially be anything. Are you saying that based on the evidence that since I am likely to be racist towards a make believe race, that I am capable of being racist to real life races as well?
Yes. Very much like one would take the evidence of one stealing make-believe assets and transposing that to them being likely to steal in RL too.
|
Archibald Thistlewaite III
448
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:46:00 -
[773] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
People who wish to upset others for their own enjoyment are miserable people I would wish to have no direct interaction with. If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid.
You must be great fun when you play Monopoly. Do you fall out with your family when they make you give them all your property for a fraction of its value. Or treat them like criminals when they get sent to jail.
Eve is a game, the in game rules allow stealing and other nefarious activities. Whats wrong with people enjoying playing a game? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:47:00 -
[774] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:People who wish to upset others for their own enjoyment are miserable people I would wish to have no direct interaction with. If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid. That's nice and all. You're still being prejudiced against people based on in-game behaviour, and you're being very abusive towards them based on these prejudices. Do you honestly think that accusing people of being subhuman and immoral would not be controversial? Did you really expect that it wouldn't generate a response? Who is it, if not us, who makes our choices.
Who makes your choices tippia? |
Oblivion King
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:47:00 -
[775] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid. hope you never giggled watching a 'funniest home videos' tv show I've yet to see an AFV where anyone involved was suffering. Link me an AFV clip that distinctly has the AFV logo that can be cross referenced with the AFV library of any video of someone suffering. suffering.
I guess you've never got hit in the balls or don't have any..
if that's not suffering I don't know what is..
fact: I'd rather lose 10 billion isk to a scam than get hit once in the balls |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:49:00 -
[776] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
People who wish to upset others for their own enjoyment are miserable people I would wish to have no direct interaction with. If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid.
You must be great fun when you play Monopoly. Do you fall out with your family when they make you give them all your property for a fraction of its value. Or treat them like criminals when they get sent to jail. Eve is a game, the in game rules allow stealing and other nefarious activities. Whats wrong with people enjoying playing a game?
They can enjoy it, but I don't have to. That's the obvious conflict about this issue. Is the difference of opinions.
I can not enjoy their desire to ruin others experience in life so much that I can choose to not voluntarily interact/associate with them.
Eve is about choices. Aren't choices awesome? |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2561
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:49:00 -
[777] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: I've yet to see an AFV where anyone involved was suffering.
Link me an AFV clip that distinctly has the AFV logo that can be cross referenced with the AFV library of any video of someone suffering.
suffering.
i'm suffering. right now. from your posting |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:51:00 -
[778] - Quote
Oblivion King wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid. hope you never giggled watching a 'funniest home videos' tv show I've yet to see an AFV where anyone involved was suffering. Link me an AFV clip that distinctly has the AFV logo that can be cross referenced with the AFV library of any video of someone suffering. suffering. I guess you've never got hit in the balls or don't have any.. if that's not suffering I don't know what is.. fact: I'd rather lose 10 billion isk to a scam than get hit once in the balls
yea man I got hit by a baseball by once. It hurt,but I wouldn't put it as suffering. Suffering is subjective. You can think it is, I'll choose not to though. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:53:00 -
[779] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: I'll add that there's no logical link between these and the claim of 'a person who plays as a pirate in EVE is an antisocial person in real life'. Until an actual argument is provided, the reasonable assumption is that any identified group or playstyle in EVE Online will have the same percentage of antisocial people or people with strong antisocial traits as the general real-world population, and that these people are equally distributed in EVE Online vOv
The people in this thread making contrary claims have basically been stomping their feet and crying "BUT I SAY" so far
Most of the gankers/scammers are clearly sociopathic, and revel in other-¦s distress: This is their RL, using EvE as a platform to experience Schadenfreude.
Pirates are another matter altogether, since quite a few pirates play pretend being pirates, and like to impersonate their character, not use it to collect tears. Their behavior is within the magic circle.
Also, evidence of said gankers-¦enjoyment has been provided already.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:54:00 -
[780] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: I've yet to see an AFV where anyone involved was suffering.
Link me an AFV clip that distinctly has the AFV logo that can be cross referenced with the AFV library of any video of someone suffering.
suffering.
i'm suffering. right now. from your posting
You could put me on ignore. Your choice. Your fault. What is it about your ability to think that prevents you from understanding the ignore feature on these forums?
Do you just not know it exists? Or are you not capable of making the connection between your suffering and making an effort to remove the stimuli?
Ignore me if I bother you. You have the option. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19671
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:54:00 -
[781] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Who is it, if not us, who makes our choices. Who makes your choices tippia? Doesn't matter. It could be you for all you know, and it would make no difference. What matters is that you have no way of transposing my in-game choices into real-world morals and character. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
448
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:55:00 -
[782] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
People who wish to upset others for their own enjoyment are miserable people I would wish to have no direct interaction with. If I see someone demonstrate a capability to enjoy the suffering of others, that is a person I would wish to avoid.
You must be great fun when you play Monopoly. Do you fall out with your family when they make you give them all your property for a fraction of its value. Or treat them like criminals when they get sent to jail. Eve is a game, the in game rules allow stealing and other nefarious activities. Whats wrong with people enjoying playing a game? They can enjoy it, but I don't have to. That's the obvious conflict about this issue. Is the difference of opinions. I can not enjoy their desire to ruin others experience in life so much that I can choose to not voluntarily interact/associate with them. Eve is about choices. Aren't choices awesome?
Its a game. How is playing a game going to ruin anyone's experience in life? |
Oblivion King
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 15:59:00 -
[783] - Quote
emm in your link provided the so called "sociopath" is actually offering advice and being friendly about it and how to avoid griefers, and he says he does it for the challenge, or did just read his first reply about the definition of a griefer and assume he does it to make others suffer.
I'm guessing that. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:03:00 -
[784] - Quote
Oblivion King wrote:emm in your link provided the so called "sociopath" is actually offering advice and being friendly about it and how to avoid griefers, and he says he does it for the challenge, or did just read his first reply about the definition of a griefer and assume he does it to make others suffer.
I'm guessing that. if the griefer is doing it soley for the challenge, it's still considered immoral because he's not taking the targets feelings into account. It's a demonstration of lack of empathy. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19674
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:05:00 -
[785] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:if the griefer is doing it soley for the challenge, it's still considered immoral because he's not taking the targets feelings into account. It's a demonstration of lack of empathy. When you win a hand in poker, are you taking the opponents' feelings into account? Is it immoral to take their money? Does it demonstrate a lack of empathy to win a challenging game? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1960
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:06:00 -
[786] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
bahahahahahahhahaah what a ******* joke. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2563
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:09:00 -
[787] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:if the griefer is doing it soley for the challenge, it's still considered immoral because he's not taking the targets feelings into account. It's a demonstration of lack of empathy. When you win a hand in poker, are you taking the opponents' feelings into account? Is it immoral to take their money? Does it demonstrate a lack of empathy to win a challenging game? i took into account my opponent's desire to play a competitive computer game and took action to compete with them |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:10:00 -
[788] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:if the griefer is doing it soley for the challenge, it's still considered immoral because he's not taking the targets feelings into account. It's a demonstration of lack of empathy. When you win a hand in poker, are you taking the opponents' feelings into account? Is it immoral to take their money? Does it demonstrate a lack of empathy to win a challenging game?
I do not gamble because I do not like contributing to a competition that revolves around taking things from others.
I do not play poker. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:11:00 -
[789] - Quote
Also, poker is not the same as eve. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19677
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:12:00 -
[790] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:i took into account my opponent's desire to play a competitive computer game and took action to compete with them How inconsiderate of you.
Divine Entervention wrote:I do not gamble because I do not like contributing to a competition that revolves around taking things from others. I do not play poker. So what do you play? And if you don't like that, why are you playing EVE?
Quote:Also, poker is not the same as eve. it is in all they ways that matter for the topic at hand. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:13:00 -
[791] - Quote
What are the different objectives you can pursue in poker? Whats like, the ultimate goal? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19677
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:16:00 -
[792] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:What are the different objectives you can pursue in poker? Whats like, the ultimate goal? Depends on what you want to get out of it.
So, what do you play? And why do you play EVE? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:17:00 -
[793] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: not an argument
Let me quote myself
Many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform.
Oppose this to the reveries of many gamers imagining their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game, and all under personas.
Anybody can see which musings are within the magic circle, and which are not. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4904
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:19:00 -
[794] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:if the griefer is doing it soley for the challenge, it's still considered immoral because he's not taking the targets feelings into account. It's a demonstration of lack of empathy. When you win a hand in poker, are you taking the opponents' feelings into account? Is it immoral to take their money? Does it demonstrate a lack of empathy to win a challenging game? i took into account my opponent's desire to play a competitive computer game and took action to compete with them
Now truthfully, the disconnect comes because the 'victim' players don't understand that they are playing a competitive game. They think "i'm just minding my own business mining/missioning/hauling stuff".
While i don't partake, I LIKE that there exists people in the game that will "keep everyone honest". Last week I was running a mission in Barkrik (death to big assed solar systems like Barkrik with the new battleship warp speed changes btw) when a dude in a Cheetah came in. He putted around a bit trying to get me to agress but I had MJD'd off the warp in point and was ready for whatever else could happen. He left and i never had another problem out of him.
If i thought like these 'victims' i'd have run to the forums and demanded CCP stop people from being able to come into my mission. I didn't because while annoying and potentially dangerous, I'm playing a spaceship game, we need 'spice of life' activities like people trying to blow you up to make it worth playing.
The victims misunderstanding of the game they are choosing to play (yet still choosing to play it) is IMO at the root of everything here.. Griefers couldn't exist in an environment of ungreifable , responsible, sane, adult players. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:19:00 -
[795] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform. Do you have anything to support this claim?
Quote:Let me quote myself It would be better if you could quote something that provided evidence for your claim. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2563
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:22:00 -
[796] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: not an argument
Let me quote myself Many gankers declare they enjoy the RL rage of their victims much more than anything. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform. Oppose this to the reveries of many gamers imagining their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game, and all under personas. Anybody can see which musings are within the magic circle, and which are not. not an argument
and wouldn't support the claim 'a ganker (for example) is an antisocial person irl' or the claim 'a ganker is more likely to be antisocial or display stong antisocial traits than the average' anyway |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:23:00 -
[797] - Quote
Oblivion King wrote:emm in your link provided the so called "sociopath" is actually offering advice and being friendly about it and how to avoid griefers, and he says he does it for the challenge, or did just read his first reply about the definition of a griefer and assume he does it to make others suffer.
I'm guessing that.
In his own words:
"A griefer is somebody who basically enjoys having fun at other peoples expense" (do note he defines himself as a griefer, while he only acts in the limits of the game rules. Outside of the magic circle, however: this is the problem)
"People in this game want to ruin your experience"
"I don't know why, but something about getting told to get cancer and die just makes my day."
You can also read the linked articles about trolls, or any ganker-¦s blog, hulkageddon or whatever. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:24:00 -
[798] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:What are the different objectives you can pursue in poker? Whats like, the ultimate goal? Depends on what you want to get out of it. So, what do you play? And why do you play EVE?
I don't want to mention the name of other games I play on this forum. I'll PM you the last major MMO I played.
I know i "could" say it's name, but considering this is an EVE forum, I personally feel its direspectful to talk of other games.
I play EVE so I can meet other interesting, good people and go on space adventures. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4904
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:26:00 -
[799] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:What are the different objectives you can pursue in poker? Whats like, the ultimate goal?
You are basically asking what can you get out of a poker game.
Same things you can get out of eve in a more virtual setting.
Making money. Displaying skill. Camaraderie Enjoyment that comes from watching an overconfident douche who should have known it was a trap deflate when you beat his Straight Flush with a Royal flush.
And I'm sure there are more.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:31:00 -
[800] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:What are the different objectives you can pursue in poker? Whats like, the ultimate goal? You are basically asking what can you get out of a poker game. Same things you can get out of eve in a more virtual setting. Making money. Displaying skill. Camaraderie Enjoyment that comes from watching an overconfident douche who should have known it was a trap deflate when you beat his Straight Flush with a Royal Flush. And I'm sure there are more. OK so they share some similar qualities.
They're still really different. I've never seen a poker game in space. Maybe the astronauts are doing it on the ISS, maybe they have already. I dunno.
EvE and Poker are different. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:31:00 -
[801] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:In his own words:
"A griefer is somebody who basically enjoys having fun at other peoples expense" "People in this game want to ruin your experience" "I don't know why, but something about getting told to get cancer and die just makes my day." GǪbut if you look at the reason why they're doing it, it's Gǣbecause its good money, obviously. It's also less time consuming than some forms of pvp. Low risk, high reward. It's a lot of fun in that it's also somewhat of a 'hunt' I guess. [GǪ] It's all about the hunt, finding out how people tick.Gǥ
So even by your own GÇ£evidenceGÇ¥ it's not all about causing people distress.
Quote:Indeed. Gankers are already antisocial IRL, they use an online video game as a tool to cause distress in people they don-¦t even know, in the hope, often fulfilled, that the gankees will pour abuse on them. This is their autistic way to reach out and touch someone. Do you have anything to support this claim?
Divine Entervention wrote:EvE and Poker are different. Not in any way that matters for the discussion at hand. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4904
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:35:00 -
[802] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
EvE and Poker are different.
EVE is different from every other game if you parse it fine enough, yet you do compare it to other games.
At some point though, a game is a game is a game.
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:38:00 -
[803] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote: first quote is fully within the accepted rules of eve online. 'your expense' simply means that one person suffers a loss. which is part of the computer game. fully advertised.
second quote is part of his 'advice for others' part and can be taken as opinion.
third quote is him describing the mails he's recieved from others. rather antisocial mails. indicates nothing other than some people want him to get cancer.
"Your expense" means the emotional response of the gankees. But let-¦s agree to disagree, since you know full well you pretend it-¦s not. I don-¦t have time nor will to argue with blatant dishonesty.
Second quote is describing how he and others behave
Third quote indicates that he loves getting hate mail, just as all gankers do. This is clearly an out-of-game goal, i.e., enjoying the RL rage of other gamers.
The support for the fact that gankers enjoy the disarray of gamers, and care little about ingame narratives, have been stated by the gankers themselves, and posted times and times again. You choose to be oblivious and dishonest about that. What can I say? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:41:00 -
[804] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Third quote indicates that he loves getting hate mail, just as all gankers do. Do you have anything to support this general claim?
Quote:The support for the fact that gankers enjoy the disarray of gamers, and care little about ingame narratives, have been stated by the gankers themselves, and posted times and times again. No. It has been stated by some people who gank. You have yet to demonstrate any generalisability to their motivations (or indeed offer any of them stating it outright) and that this is somehow something that sets them apart from the general population.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
50
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:41:00 -
[805] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mandarine wrote:In his own words:
"A griefer is somebody who basically enjoys having fun at other peoples expense" "People in this game want to ruin your experience" "I don't know why, but something about getting told to get cancer and die just makes my day." GǪbut if you look at the reason why they're doing it, it's GÇ£because its good money, obviously. It's also less time consuming than some forms of pvp. Low risk, high reward. It's a lot of fun in that it's also somewhat of a 'hunt' I guess. [GǪ] It's all about the hunt, finding out how people tick.GÇ¥ So even by your own GÇ£evidenceGÇ¥ it's not all about causing people distress. Quote:Indeed. Gankers are already antisocial IRL, they use an online video game as a tool to cause distress in people they don-¦t even know, in the hope, often fulfilled, that the gankees will pour abuse on them. This is their autistic way to reach out and touch someone. Do you have anything to support this claim? Divine Entervention wrote:EvE and Poker are different. Not in any way that matters for the discussion at hand.
As much as I hate to come to this conclusion, but you're not worth my time. You don't even strike me as a real person. The way you conduct yourself screams a disconnection between yourself and your actions.
I've said all I need to say to you regarding anything you've asked me. The answers are there, but you don't want them. You just want to keep presenting the same questions over and over hoping I'll eventually trip myself up so you can say you bested me.
But I've already bested you. You refuse to acknowledge the connections I've stated on a multitude of different occassions.
Also when you speak to other people, you literally do parrot your own catch phrases incessantly.
It was fun while it lasted, but alas I've figured you out. Ultimately it didn't take long considering the only medium of interaction we had was on an internet forum.
I'm sure you'll disagree with me, but you've already proven to me that you're not someone who's opinion I should invest value in. I mean, you stated that the guy who lies to someone and then steals from him is "winning". To me, that's enough proof that you are a broken person. I'm writing you off as lost and putting you on ignore. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2563
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:42:00 -
[806] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:"Your expense" means the emotional response of the gankees. But let-¦s agree to disagree, since you know full well you pretend it-¦s not. I don-¦t have time nor will to argue with blatant dishonesty.
Second quote is describing how he and others behave
Third quote indicates that he loves getting hate mail, just as all gankers do. This is clearly an out-of-game goal, i.e., enjoying the RL rage of other gamers.
The support for the fact that gankers enjoy the disarray of gamers, and care little about ingame narratives, have been stated by the gankers themselves, and posted times and times again. You choose to be oblivious and dishonest about that. What can I say? and even if all of this was true (it's not), it doesn't support the claims you make
i have only pointed out the logical faults in what scraps of argument you've provided. there's no dishonesty in that. if you are unable to provide a logical backing to your claims, it doesn't reflect on me. your attacks on me personally are unwarranted and do nothing to support what you're trying to say. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1591
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:47:00 -
[807] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
EvE and Poker are different.
EVE is different from every other game if you parse it fine enough, yet you do compare it to other games. At some point though, a game is a game is a game.
... is Mario Kart because:
Anhenka's Law: Everything regarding ethics and morality can be examined through the lens of Mario Kart. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:50:00 -
[808] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:But I've already bested you. You refuse to acknowledge the connections I've stated on a multitude of different occassions. That's just it: you have never made any connections. You've only ever stated that you can take the observation of one thing and transpose it into a conclusion about something unrelated.
You have not once demonstrated that such a transposition can be made. You have not once demonstrated that the two characteristics are related. You have not once shown that your conclusions about the character and moral people are based on anything but your own prejudices.
Quote:Also when you speak to other people, you literally do parrot your own catch phrases incessantly. I use the same verbiage because it is the most precise I can find to point out what you're doing wrong. If you keep skipping over the same crucial step over and over again, I'm going to keep mentioning that step over and over again, using the same words to describe it.
Quote:I mean, you stated that the guy who lies to someone and then steals from him is "winning". What else would you call it when someone achieves a win-condition?
Quote:To me, that's enough proof that you are a broken person. GǪand that is why I keep saying that your claims are prejudiced: because you keep jumping to these nonsensical conclusions based on completely unrelated and irrelevant observations. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:51:00 -
[809] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mandarine wrote:"Your expense" means the emotional response of the gankees. But let-¦s agree to disagree, since you know full well you pretend it-¦s not. I don-¦t have time nor will to argue with blatant dishonesty.
Second quote is describing how he and others behave
Third quote indicates that he loves getting hate mail, just as all gankers do. This is clearly an out-of-game goal, i.e., enjoying the RL rage of other gamers.
The support for the fact that gankers enjoy the disarray of gamers, and care little about ingame narratives, have been stated by the gankers themselves, and posted times and times again. You choose to be oblivious and dishonest about that. What can I say? and even if all of this was true (it's not), it doesn't support the claims you makei have only pointed out the logical faults in what scraps of argument you've provided. there's no dishonesty in that. if you are unable to provide a logical backing to your claims, it doesn't reflect on me. your attacks on me personally are unwarranted and do nothing to support what you're trying to say.
The logical backing is as follows: Gankers state time and time again that they-¦re in it for the tears, (or the lulz) Those tears are the emotional response of gankees, and the gankers know the best ways to harvest them Those tears are a word for the RL rage of the gankees The gankers find this rage delicious, and they see their own, RL, self, as the cause of it The characters they use to harvest those tears are absolutely irrelevant, and often biomassed so as to render the sec status penalties null and void. They create new ones.
Since they take their delight in picturing their own, RL, self, as having caused RL disarray in some other gamer, through an online video game, this is clearly outside the magic circle, and does not qualify as good video gaming sport. They do not care one bit about the ingame narrative. All they enjoy is out-of-game rage they have caused in other gamers.
Is that clear enough or do you want me to copy paste this over the course of a dozen pages? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
107903
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:53:00 -
[810] - Quote
What if every 6 year old gave up and dropped out on the 1st grade because there is "too much catch up" ?
Why are Idiots expecting a long-term game to be any different from most real life processes ???? "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:56:00 -
[811] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Gankers state time and time again that they-¦re in it for the tears, (or the lulz) How do you generalise from the statements of a small sample, and how do you reconcile that generalisation with the statements from other gankers that they're doing it for any number of other reasons?
Quote:The characters they use to harvest those tears are absolutely irrelevant, and often biomassed so as to render the sec status penalties null and void Do you have any evidence to support this supposed mass-exploitation?
Quote:Is that clear enough or do you want me to copy paste this over the course of a dozen pages? It still doesn't support the claim that gankers and scammers GÇö as a group GÇö are only out to hurt people, and it doesn't even begin to address the question of whether or not this somehow distinguishes them from any other arbitrary group in the game.
e: Also, wrong thread Krixtal. I know it's many of the same people, but I'm guessing you're looking for the GÇ£afraid of EVEGÇ¥ thread. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2563
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 16:57:00 -
[812] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:The logical backing is as follows: Gankers state time and time again that they-¦re in it for the tears, (or the lulz) some people say that. you've provided... one. this is not indicative that a greater than otherwise-average number of gankers pursue their game soley for that reason. nor that it is unusual. so i'll stop you there.
Benny Ohu wrote: I'll add that there's no logical link between these and the claim of 'a person who plays as a pirate in EVE is an antisocial person in real life'. Until an actual argument is provided, the reasonable assumption is that any identified group or playstyle in EVE Online will have the same percentage of antisocial people or people with strong antisocial traits as the general real-world population, and that these people are equally distributed in EVE Online vOv
The people in this thread making contrary claims have basically been stomping their feet and crying "BUT I SAY" so far
[/quote]
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
52
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:08:00 -
[813] - Quote
I will state that I feel people who become upset upon losing pixels who respond with an irrational vitriol of hate and insults are placing an over emphasis on the importance of the items that were stolen from them. They should not let the loss of possessions upset them.
Regaring the interpretation of the griefers attempt to illicit anger/rage/tears from someone is in my opinion a valid excuse to label that person as someone you should not trust, in game and out. Why? because that person has demonstrated on at least one occasion where he is willing to pretend you are not a real person worthy of respect. Because of that, there is an aire of uncertainty regarding where the game of griefing ends for him.
Being a griefer does not necessarily mean he will choose to grief you outside of the game as well. He could very well be the nicest person. But considering the choices he's shown you he is willing to make to you, trying to negatively impact your game play and sense of happiness, you may question his motives and the extent to which he is willing to go with his desire to make you, and others, unhappy. Maybe it doesn't end online. Maybe he does it offline? It's impossible to know. All you do know is what he's shown you, and it is not good.
So do not concern yourself with a griefer trying to justify his choices. He could very well only be trying to regain your trust so he can con you again, proving once again how he is "superior" for being willing to debase his self by falling to the temptation of easy, cheap enjoyment at your expense.
It is obvious that there are alot of people in this game who will go the extra mile to make an attempt to establish dominance over you. The proof is in this thread, and littered throughout the entirety of these forums. But just as there is alot of evidence of people doing bad things, the good ones are still out there. We're still here. Not all of us are as determined as I am to speak our minds and condemn the actions we agree upon being wrong.
You don't have to accept their actions as sufficient examples of how people should be allowed to act. You apply your own morality onto determining right and wrong.
Now, despite my opinions on the persons who's goal is to inflict suffering. I do not wish for it to be removed.
Knowing these bad people exist make you good ones that much more special and enjoyable by comparison. They'll despise you. Think down upon you for having an opinion that is not their own, they have to for their ego's rationalization of their actions to maintain their sense of self.
Is it right what they do? No. Should their ability to act that way be removed? No.
But their actions ultimately only reflect poorly on themselves. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:09:00 -
[814] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mandarine wrote:The logical backing is as follows: Gankers state time and time again that they-¦re in it for the tears, (or the lulz) some people say that. you've provided... one. this is not indicative that a greater than otherwise-average number of gankers pursue their game soley for that reason. nor that it is unusual. so i'll stop you there.
https://www.google.com/search?q=eve+delicious+tears
Benny Ohu wrote: I'll add that there's no logical link between these and the claim of 'a person who plays as a pirate in EVE is an antisocial person in real life'. Until an actual argument is provided, the reasonable assumption is that any identified group or playstyle in EVE Online will have the same percentage of antisocial people or people with strong antisocial traits as the general real-world population, and that these people are equally distributed in EVE Online vOv
The people in this thread making contrary claims have basically been stomping their feet and crying "BUT I SAY" so far
Indeed. Gankers are already antisocial IRL, they use an online video game as a tool to cause distress in people they don-¦t even know, in the hope, often fulfilled, that the gankees will pour abuse on them. This is their autistic way to reach out and touch someone.
Or to rephrase, they don-¦t play a video game by play pretending being a pod pilot, they just use it in a way to cause emotional harm to people, because they see that it works. Which is quite problematic, since it does not fall within the magic circle. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
107905
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:13:00 -
[815] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Is it right what they do? No. Should their ability to act that way be removed? No.
But their actions ultimately only reflect poorly on themselves.
Yes, and that's exactly how I feel as a gay man of 48 years about what just went down in Arizona. It's just the way life is. Everyone deserves to have whatever their beliefs and ideals are. The public as a whole will judge though, by reputation and observation.
It's always astounded me, this seemingly magical power I have to terrify those people straight out of their rational minds....down to pursuing political legislation of their beliefs. Now, that's a Super-Power, and most indeed "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2563
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:15:00 -
[816] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: I'll add that there's no logical link between these and the claim of 'a person who plays as a pirate in EVE is an antisocial person in real life'. Until an actual argument is provided, the reasonable assumption is that any identified group or playstyle in EVE Online will have the same percentage of antisocial people or people with strong antisocial traits as the general real-world population, and that these people are equally distributed in EVE Online vOv
The people in this thread making contrary claims have basically been stomping their feet and crying "BUT I SAY" so far
BUT I SAY you don't know what an argument is do you |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:22:00 -
[817] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mandarine wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: I'll add that there's no logical link between these and the claim of 'a person who plays as a pirate in EVE is an antisocial person in real life'. Until an actual argument is provided, the reasonable assumption is that any identified group or playstyle in EVE Online will have the same percentage of antisocial people or people with strong antisocial traits as the general real-world population, and that these people are equally distributed in EVE Online vOv
The people in this thread making contrary claims have basically been stomping their feet and crying "BUT I SAY" so far
BUT I SAY you don't know what an argument is do you
https://www.google.com/search?q=eve+delicious+tears
And that will be my last answer to you, since you are clearly of Tippia-¦s breed, that is, incapable of discussing anything without being frontally, blatantly dishonest, pretending not knowing what is common knowledge on this forum and in the videogaming community.
Makes a lot of sense though that you people defend gankers, since you act like them: your online actions aim at causing discomfort in other internet users. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4905
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:23:00 -
[818] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:What if every 6 year old gave up and dropped out on the 1st grade because there is "too much catch up" ?
Why are Idiots expecting a long-term game to be any different from most real life processes ????
There goes Krixtal Icefluxor answering his own questions again
When I came into the game in June of 2007, It never ever crossed my mind that I could never 'catch up to the people who started playing in 2003-6. I think most people who do that have the "solo player/gladiator" mindset that prevails in other MMOs and especially MOBAs like LoL.
That mind set (while supported) doesn't really fit into EVE the same way it fits into other games. I played WoW for a few months in 2008 and one of the things I noticed was how it really worked to keep people "on their level" via game mechanics that didn't let you go above your capabilities , there was a lot of stuff I couldn't access because of my low level. It would be like EVE not letting you into a 10/10 because you only have 7 million skill points or something lol.
It may be that some people can't deal with an "open world" type game like EVE, they need the structure and direction other games offer, and need to feel like they can be on a level playing field with others.
I think people more mentally suited to EVE's way of life don't give a solid flip about even playing fields, their too busy figuring out how they can use the uneven playing field to make isk, influence and maybe tears.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
52
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:26:00 -
[819] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Mandarine wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: I'll add that there's no logical link between these and the claim of 'a person who plays as a pirate in EVE is an antisocial person in real life'. Until an actual argument is provided, the reasonable assumption is that any identified group or playstyle in EVE Online will have the same percentage of antisocial people or people with strong antisocial traits as the general real-world population, and that these people are equally distributed in EVE Online vOv
The people in this thread making contrary claims have basically been stomping their feet and crying "BUT I SAY" so far
BUT I SAY you don't know what an argument is do you https://www.google.com/search?q=eve+delicious+tearsAnd that will be my last answer to you, since you are clearly of Tippia-¦s breed, that is, incapable of discussing anything without being frontally, blatantly dishonest, pretending not knowing what is common knowledge on this forum and in the videogaming community. Makes a lot of sense though that you people defend gankers, since you act like them: your online actions aim at causing discomfort in other internet users.
You are attempting to argue with people who refuse to make the connection between their choice to perform an action and themselves.
I know, trust me I've been arguing with them for awhile now and they all have that disconnect. I hope they're just trolling. If not, well then I feel bad the state has to give them disability money.
Either way, they're not worth your time. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
79
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:28:00 -
[820] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:And that will be my last answer to you, since you are clearly of Tippia-¦s breed, that is, incapable of discussing anything without being frontally, blatantly dishonest, pretending not knowing what is common knowledge on this forum and in the videogaming community.
Makes a lot of sense though that you people defend gankers, since you act like them: your online actions aim at causing discomfort in other internet users.
Funny. Your description above, in my observation, fits you almost perfectly. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:29:00 -
[821] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:https://www.google.com/search?q=eve+delicious+tears
And that will be my last answer to you So you can't actually support your claim. You have no way of evaluating your sample. You have no way of generalising from your sample. You have no way of reconciling your claim with evidence that seems to utterly falsify it. And you have no indication whatsoever about how this distinguishes gankers and scammers from the population at large.
Quote:incapable of discussing anything without being frontally, blatantly dishonest Asking you to prove your assertion is not dishonest. GÇ£Common knowledgeGÇ¥ is not the same as fact GÇö it's actually often the exact opposite GÇö and if it truly was that common, you wouldn't have such insurmountable problems providing the supporting evidence you need.
Quote:Makes a lot of sense though that you people defend gankers It sure does. I defend almost all legitimate gameplay, especially when the arguments against them are completely nonsensical and utterly disconnected from reality.
Divine Entervention wrote:You are attempting to argue with people who refuse to make the connection between their choice to perform an action and themselves. GǪwhich no-one has actually refused to do. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4905
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:30:00 -
[822] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Mandarine wrote:Benny Ohu wrote: I'll add that there's no logical link between these and the claim of 'a person who plays as a pirate in EVE is an antisocial person in real life'. Until an actual argument is provided, the reasonable assumption is that any identified group or playstyle in EVE Online will have the same percentage of antisocial people or people with strong antisocial traits as the general real-world population, and that these people are equally distributed in EVE Online vOv
The people in this thread making contrary claims have basically been stomping their feet and crying "BUT I SAY" so far
BUT I SAY you don't know what an argument is do you https://www.google.com/search?q=eve+delicious+tearsAnd that will be my last answer to you, since you are clearly of Tippia-¦s breed, that is, incapable of discussing anything without being frontally, blatantly dishonest, pretending not knowing what is common knowledge on this forum and in the videogaming community. Makes a lot of sense though that you people defend gankers, since you act like them: your online actions aim at causing discomfort in other internet users.
Do you know who talks about tears a lot?
CCP devs. The guys that make the game. You can go to youtube and find dev interviews where extracting tears is much talked about.
If you have a problem with people who like to extract tears, why are you choosing to play a game made by tear extractors, for tear extractors? I mean, it obviously bothers you.
That's a big difference between me and a lot of the complainers. I don't like to extract tears, but I don't give anyone tears either. I PVE and dodge PVPrs (my evading pvp is a kind of pvp). I know EVE is a pvp tear extraction game and that my personal preferences kind of go counter to the spirit and theme of the game. It's that understanding of the way of things (and that those things are ok as long as it's within the ToS and EULA) that makes me an EVE player, not just the fact that I have EVE accounts. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:31:00 -
[823] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Mandarine wrote:And that will be my last answer to you, since you are clearly of Tippia-¦s breed, that is, incapable of discussing anything without being frontally, blatantly dishonest, pretending not knowing what is common knowledge on this forum and in the videogaming community.
Makes a lot of sense though that you people defend gankers, since you act like them: your online actions aim at causing discomfort in other internet users. Funny. Your description above, in my observation, fits you almost perfectly.
How does it? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
453
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:33:00 -
[824] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I will state that I feel people who become upset upon losing pixels who respond with an irrational vitriol of hate and insults are placing an over emphasis on the importance of the items that were stolen from them. They should not let the loss of possessions upset them.
(a whole lot of other stuff about in game choices and play) None of which in any of that was on topic to this thread. Once again it's been dragged off topic.
However to bring it back to topic, which is about anger and negativity in the forum, I'll add a further relevant reason:
Because some people on the forum are unable to stay on topic, so all topics descend into personal agendas. As a result, threads that run more than a couple of pages become effectively the same topic, despite the original question.
I think there is probably a general principle about Internet forums that can be drawn from that. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
79
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:36:00 -
[825] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:How does it?
Is that a rhetorical question?
In that you yourself demonstrate the behavior and traits you are projecting onto someone else in that specific description of them.
I find your description of them, is actually more accurately a description of yourself, than it is of them. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:38:00 -
[826] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:I will state that I feel people who become upset upon losing pixels who respond with an irrational vitriol of hate and insults are placing an over emphasis on the importance of the items that were stolen from them. They should not let the loss of possessions upset them.
(a whole lot of other stuff about in game choices and play) None of which in any of that was on topic to this thread. Once again it's been dragged off topic. However to bring it back to topic, which is about anger and negativity in the forum, I'll add a further relevant reason: Because some people on the forum are unable to stay on topic, so all topics descend into personal agendas. As a result, threads that run more than a couple of pages become effectively the same topic, despite the original question. I think there is probably a general principle about Internet forums that can be drawn from that.
if people want to talk about it, they'll talk about it. As long as it's done respectfully and within the parameters of established rules, well then why do you care?
You want to know why people on the forums are negative?
Because they're incapable of being positive. They exist in an emotional state where their predominant feelings are sadness, anger, and jealousy. People who are angry are typically highly motivated by that anger. So they look for a platform to spread their anger, and it results in forum posts where people are insulting others trying to make them feel upset as they do themselves, transference.
And that's the rational people. Being a victim of your own anger is sad, yes, but it's somewhat natural.
What's unnatural is the fact that some of these people aren't mad about anything. They're just genuinely bad people who gain the satisfaction at the feeling that their actions have caused a negative emotional impact on someone else. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16832
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:39:00 -
[827] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole:
CCP OWNS IT ALL
angle?
Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.
So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.
and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance.
Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you.
You can believe what you like. But unless you can prove a connection, then others can dismiss your stance. So just as you can believe you blew my attempt, you have again failed to prove it and thus I will dismiss your stance.
But thanks for playing.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:40:00 -
[828] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole:
CCP OWNS IT ALL
angle?
Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.
So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.
and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance.
Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you.
You can believe what you like. But unless you can prove a connection, then others can dismiss your stance. So just as you can believe you blew my attempt, you have again failed to prove it and thus I will dismiss your stance. But thanks for playing.
The connection is the person sitting at the keyboard making the choice. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16832
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:41:00 -
[829] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:This technicality has already been addressed and disregarded, though it is amusing that some people seem to be either incapable of grasping the deeper issues being talked about here, and have been trying for no less than 4-5 pages repeatedly (without contributing anything else or even understanding what else is going on) "nail" the discussion on the known and understood fact that CCP owns everything in EVE. Reminds me of little kiddies trying to participate in adult conversation, but who don't really understand at all what is going on.
CCP owns the game and everything in it, but for example:
You and others are at a friends house. The house owner pulls out the dreaded Monopoly game (which he also owns). You and your friends sit down to a game of Monopoly (which he owns) in his house (which he also owns). Everyone is dealt out their share of monehs at start, as are the rules of teh game. Then, at some point, one of the guys takes from your stacks of monehs a few 100s without your (or the game/house owners) permission. That is theft from you, though it is the game owners property and his house in which the game and the property is held. Even if you play his game of Monopoly, in his house, with his special house rules which ALLOW stealing, it is still theft by definition. This because in the context of the game, that moneh was yours to use for the purposes of playing the game. You have an internal contextual right to possession of it, though ofc actual ownership of it is still vested in the game/house owner. This is meant as humour I hope.
I wouldn't like to make a judgement about your argument before finding that out first.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16832
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:43:00 -
[830] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole:
CCP OWNS IT ALL
angle?
Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.
So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.
and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance.
Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you.
You can believe what you like. But unless you can prove a connection, then others can dismiss your stance. So just as you can believe you blew my attempt, you have again failed to prove it and thus I will dismiss your stance. But thanks for playing. The connection is the person sitting at the keyboard making the choice. But you've again failed to show a connection. You've only stated that because a person does A in game, it means he will do A in RL. But have yet to show the connection between the two.
Thanks again for playing.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
454
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:45:00 -
[831] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:[quote=Scipio Artelius]Because they're incapable of being positive. They exist in an emotional state where their predominant feelings are sadness, anger, and jealousy. People who are angry are typically highly motivated by that anger. So they look for a platform to spread their anger, and it results in forum posts where people are insulting others trying to make them feel upset as they do themselves, transference.
And that's the rational people. Being a victim of your own anger is sad, yes, but it's somewhat natural.
What's unnatural is the fact that some of these people aren't mad about anything. They're just genuinely bad people who gain the satisfaction at the feeling that their actions have caused a negative emotional impact on someone else. Good on topic post with relevance to this thread.
In relation to the quoted bit, while I personally think you are being a bit hard on yourself, because no one is incapable of being positive, realising your issue is a good start. Hopefully from this point forward you can change and everyone can discuss things rationally together.
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:45:00 -
[832] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The connection is the person sitting at the keyboard making the choice. Nope. The person at the keyboard is the black box you're trying to make predictions about. The connection is the method and mechanisms that let you make those predictions GÇö a connection you have decided to completely replace with baseless assumptions.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:50:00 -
[833] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole:
CCP OWNS IT ALL
angle?
Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.
So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.
and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance.
Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you.
You can believe what you like. But unless you can prove a connection, then others can dismiss your stance. So just as you can believe you blew my attempt, you have again failed to prove it and thus I will dismiss your stance. But thanks for playing. The connection is the person sitting at the keyboard making the choice. But you've again failed to show a connection. You've only stated that because a person does A in game, it means he will do A in RL. But have yet to show the connection between the two. Thanks again for playing.
it means that he's established a precedent. He's demonstrated a capability to think of you as a person worth extorting at least once.
It's impossible to definitively say he will extort you again, in person, because of the uncertainty principle that exists with all human interaction.
Because it's impossible to truly know what someone will do since that would require clairvoyance or super natural powers, you have to make a decision regarding the the information that's been provided to you by that individual's previous interactions with you. Where does the game end with him? Potentially, it could never end. He may very well extend this in game facet of his existence into the real world. We cannot know for certainty that he does not, so it's best to play it safe and choose to never trust him again, never giving him that opportunity based on his previous decision to show you he makes the choice to be a criminal.
|
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:52:00 -
[834] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:you are clearly of Tippia-¦s breed, that is, incapable of discussing anything without being frontally, blatantly dishonest, pretending not knowing what is common knowledge on this forum and in the videogaming community.
Makes a lot of sense though that you people defend gankers, since you act like them: your online actions aim at causing discomfort in other internet users. let me make this clear to you
you are making general claims about people who are playing a videogame in a manner the videogame is intended to be played that are actually pretty insulting
when adults have a discussion we verbalise the reasoning behind statements we make. we base our claims on facts, we link the claim to the facts, we provide evidence. you have not. until you do, everything you say can be refuted with 'lol no'.
for the record, 'everyone knows' is a fallacy. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:53:00 -
[835] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad. Ok. That still doesn't explain why you've chosen to play a game that is purposefully designed around what bothers you.
Quote:I-¦m saying that Tippia and Benny Ohu are blatantly dishonest, when they pretend being oblivious to what has been stated for years, by gankers themselves: that the tears are the supreme prize, and when they pretend not to understand that those gankers are outside the magic circle Just one problem: we're not pretending that at all. We're simply asking you to provide evidence and arguments to support your claim. In particular, we have problems with the unreliable sample you use, unproven generalisations you make, and with the equally unproven distinctions you rely on, without which any generalisations you make become meaningless anyway.
Quote:But their only line of defence is saying "that-¦s not true" GǪwhich, of course, none of us has ever used.
Quote:How exactly am I being dishonest there? You're lying about what I and Benny are saying; you're lying about what our arguments are; and you're lying about what our complaints with your lack of argumentation are.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16806
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:54:00 -
[836] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Mandarine wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Do you know who talks about tears a lot?
CCP devs. The guys that make the game. You can go to youtube and find dev interviews where extracting tears is much talked about.
If you have a problem with people who like to extract tears, why are you choosing to play a game made by tear extractors, for tear extractors? I mean, it obviously bothers you.
Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad. Thankfully, it doesn't matter what you think. I do think better when wearing a cosy, that's for sure. The thinking cosy
Is it the puppies or the kittens cosy? Enquiring minds want to know which is more suited to thinking. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:55:00 -
[837] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:I would discuss arguments they-¦d present to me, should they present any. But their only line of defence is saying "that-¦s not true", which is the being oblivious I-¦m describing above. no, it's on you to make your own argument to support the claims you make. there is no need for a 'defence' (what are we defending?) until you do. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:55:00 -
[838] - Quote
You've demonstrated multiple times now that you do not believe you are the person making your choices.
You use petty distinctions to justify a mentally projected wall between your choice to perform actions, and your being that person who ultimately chose to make those choices.
You are disconnected.
You are broken. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:57:00 -
[839] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:it means that he's established a precedent. He's demonstrated a capability to think of you as a person worth extorting at least once. Nope. He has only demonstrated the ability to think of you as someone who's playing the same game he is. You have no idea what he thinks about you as a person. Once again, you're making unsupported assumptions about the relationship between his in-game behaviour and his out-of-game behaviour, and you're passing judgment about that out-of-game person based on nothing but those assumptions.
Quote:It's impossible to definitively say he will extort you again, in person, because of the uncertainty principle that exists with all human interaction. And that has nothing to do with in-game or out-of-game behaviour GÇö much less any supposed relationship between the two.
Quote:You've demonstrated multiple times now that you do not believe you are the person making your choices. Not once, actually. That's just you making prejudiced claims and using your own assumptions as a justification for being hostile and abusive towards other people. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16834
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 17:57:00 -
[840] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mag's wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:
Thankfully, it doesn't matter what you think.
I do think better when wearing a cosy, that's for sure. The thinking cosy Is it the puppies or the kittens cosy? Enquiring minds want to know which is more suited to thinking. I've found the Rabbit cosy to be better suited for the task. It may be the ears.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16810
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:03:00 -
[841] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:I also think that the sandbox environment is the best, but you have to remove from it the kids who enjoy nothing more than to be out-of-narrative disturbances and seeing other kids mad.
CCP-¦s business plan, for now, focuses on selling multiple accounts to a small portion of the gamer community, the one which is made of sadists and masochists (who all need alts). When the servers capabilities will be able to accommodate players in the million order, you-¦ll probably see quite a change in the policy, to bring in the regular type of gamer. It's a good job that CCP aren't trying to attract millions of gamers, they're not trying to be EA or Blizzard.
All evidence to date points to CCP being quite happy to continue with the current formula of Eve, and remain as an independent developer producing a highly successful, long lived and brutal MMORPG in the vein of Ultima Online, from which many of the original devs hail.
Many devs have found, to their chagrin, that trying to be WoW 2.0 is a surefire path to failure. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16834
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:03:00 -
[842] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Mag's wrote:But you've again failed to show a connection. You've only stated that because a person does A in game, it means he will do A in RL. But have yet to show the connection between the two. Thanks again for playing. it means that he's established a precedent. He's demonstrated a capability to think of you as a person worth extorting at least once. It's impossible to definitively say he will extort you again, in person, because of the uncertainty principle that exists with all human interaction. Because it's impossible to truly know what someone will do since that would require clairvoyance or super natural powers, you have to make a decision regarding the the information that's been provided to you by that individual's previous interactions with you. Where does the game end with him? Potentially, it could never end. He may very well extend this in game facet of his existence into the real world. We cannot know for certainty that he does not, so it's best to play it safe and choose to never trust him again, never giving him that opportunity based on his previous decision to show you he makes the choice to be a criminal. All of which are assumptions on your part, without showing the connection.
I had high hopes for you and could see the game you were playing quite early on. But with your latest attempts, it's all looking like weak sauce.
Then of course, we can see you totally failed against Tippia and threw in the towel. What a shame.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4908
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:05:00 -
[843] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Do you know who talks about tears a lot?
CCP devs. The guys that make the game. You can go to youtube and find dev interviews where extracting tears is much talked about.
If you have a problem with people who like to extract tears, why are you choosing to play a game made by tear extractors, for tear extractors? I mean, it obviously bothers you.
Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad.
In think thats a rather authoritarian view. What does it matter to you what some company does with it RPG?
If you don't like it, you could always by CCP and ban everyone you don't like from EVE. Alternately you could ignore the fact that games like EVE exist and be happy playing games that moderate behaviors much more.
People like you have always perplexed me. I'm not like a lot of EVE players (I actually like PVE, even that mission with the idiotic Damsel who keeps getting herself kidnapped). Yet it's easy to tolerate the different players who play EVE because without them EVE would suck.
Quote: I also think that the sandbox environment is the best, but you have to remove from it the kids who enjoy nothing more than to be out-of-narrative disturbances and seeing other kids mad.
CCP-¦s business plan, for now, focuses on selling multiple accounts to a small portion of the gamer community, the one which is made of sadists and masochists (who all need alts). When the servers capabilities will be able to accommodate players in the million order, you-¦ll probably see quite a change in the policy, to bring in the regular type of gamer.
Until then, I-¦m having fun stating the obvious, and seeing the Griefer Defence Force peddling their trade.
There it is. There is the smoking gun.
You think people like you are 'regular'. Hell, you might even be right because most MMOs coddle people in a warm blanket of safety and false hero-hood.
Why in hell would anyone want to be 'regular' or surrounded by 'regular' people who can't figure out how to do anything extraordinary in a game or in real life? Do you like boredom?
We see this thinking all the time here, the "EVE would get more subs if {insert anti-EVE feature here}" idea. Why not play a game that isn't made by psycho pvp players instead and let the "griefers" (and their allies, such as me) have their own space. Must everything be some bland "equality" type thing.
I think these ideas (of yours) are the true cancer. not content to control the bulk of the MMO world, you types must also have the EVEs of the world to. No niche or difference is allowed.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:11:00 -
[844] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Mag's wrote:But you've again failed to show a connection. You've only stated that because a person does A in game, it means he will do A in RL. But have yet to show the connection between the two. Thanks again for playing. it means that he's established a precedent. He's demonstrated a capability to think of you as a person worth extorting at least once. It's impossible to definitively say he will extort you again, in person, because of the uncertainty principle that exists with all human interaction. Because it's impossible to truly know what someone will do since that would require clairvoyance or super natural powers, you have to make a decision regarding the the information that's been provided to you by that individual's previous interactions with you. Where does the game end with him? Potentially, it could never end. He may very well extend this in game facet of his existence into the real world. We cannot know for certainty that he does not, so it's best to play it safe and choose to never trust him again, never giving him that opportunity based on his previous decision to show you he makes the choice to be a criminal. All of which are assumptions on your part, without showing the connection. I had high hopes for you and could see the game you were playing quite early on. But with your latest attempts, it's all looking like weak sauce. Then of course, we can see you totally failed against Tippia and threw in the towel. What a shame.
tippia doesn't have the ability to consider points of view other than his own. It's useless arguing with him because despite what is a very clear connection, he refuses to acknowledge.
Much like you, he does not understand the human connection between all of us playing the game. You view us like your play things, toys to be abused for your amusement.
you're not suppose to light us on fire and blow us up with firecrackers just to see us get mad that you wish to prove you're a bad person. You're suppose to want to play with us, respectfully.
But you don't see that, all you see us as is tools to make yourself feel better. But I'm not your tool, I'm a human being and I have feelings, which you obviously do not.
Which is why you are broken.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19678
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:14:00 -
[845] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:tippia doesn't have the ability to consider points of view other than his own. Sure I do. You just have to use something other than blatant fallacies and unsupported assertions as a foundation. Actually, you don't have to do that either, but at that point, I'll reserve the right to call your view fallacious and unsupported.
Quote:Much like you, he does not understand the human connection between all of us playing the game. You view us like your play things, toys to be abused for your amusement. No. Those are your prejudices talking. Do you even know what I do in the game?
Quote:I'm a human being and I have feelings, which you obviously do not. Which is why you are broken. Again with the hostility and abuse. And then you wonder why people question your world-view and claim to moral superiority? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1461
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:16:00 -
[846] - Quote
Exploding you cute little ventures at lowsec belts is my way of playing with you. Last time I checked that was not against any rule. Did I miss something? Maybe you missed that point saying: cold, harsh universe where YOU shape your destiny? I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16834
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:18:00 -
[847] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
tippia doesn't have the ability to consider points of view other than his own. It's useless arguing with him because despite what is a very clear connection, he refuses to acknowledge.
Much like you, he does not understand the human connection between all of us playing the game. You view us like your play things, toys to be abused for your amusement.
you're not suppose to light us on fire and blow us up with firecrackers just to see us get mad that you wish to prove you're a bad person. You're suppose to want to play with us, respectfully.
But you don't see that, all you see us as is tools to make yourself feel better. But I'm not your tool, I'm a human being and I have feelings, which you obviously do not.
Which is why you are broken.
Like I said, only assumptions from you now. But don't get upset just because you failed to prove any of it. Even though it now looks weak, it was fun to watch.
Thanks for playing.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:18:00 -
[848] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Exploding your cute little ventures at lowsec belts is my way of playing with you. Last time I checked that was not against any rule. Did I miss something? Maybe you missed that point saying: cold, harsh universe where YOU shape your destiny?
You can come blow up my venture if you want. Just don't be upset when I label you as someone I can't trust and treat you as such. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:21:00 -
[849] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
tippia doesn't have the ability to consider points of view other than his own. It's useless arguing with him because despite what is a very clear connection, he refuses to acknowledge.
Much like you, he does not understand the human connection between all of us playing the game. You view us like your play things, toys to be abused for your amusement.
you're not suppose to light us on fire and blow us up with firecrackers just to see us get mad that you wish to prove you're a bad person. You're suppose to want to play with us, respectfully.
But you don't see that, all you see us as is tools to make yourself feel better. But I'm not your tool, I'm a human being and I have feelings, which you obviously do not.
Which is why you are broken.
Like I said, only assumptions from you now. But don't get upset just because you failed to prove any of it. Even though it now looks weak, it was fun to watch. Thanks for playing.
Whatever guy you pick what you want to believe. Difference is mine is fastened in reality while yours is the product of your ego justifying your actions to prevent you from analyzing yourself to avoid admitting your imperfect. This isn't my first rodeo. Your subtle attempts at manipulation are so aol it's embarrassing.
But don't be mad when I come to the conclusion that based off of your actions, you're someone I can't trust and should warn others not to trust as well. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1461
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:21:00 -
[850] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Exploding your cute little ventures at lowsec belts is my way of playing with you. Last time I checked that was not against any rule. Did I miss something? Maybe you missed that point saying: cold, harsh universe where YOU shape your destiny? You can come blow up my venture if you want. Just don't be upset when I label you as someone I can't trust and treat you as such.
Why would I get upset about what you think about my in-game character? She is a pirate and flashy red and she acts accordingly. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16810
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:22:00 -
[851] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: tippia doesn't have the ability to consider points of view other than his own
Pot, meet kettle.
Quote:It's useless arguing with him because despite what is a very clear connection, he refuses to acknowledge. A connection you have repeatedly failed to prove.
Quote:Much like you, he does not understand the human connection between all of us playing the game. You view us like your play things, toys to be abused for your amusement. Nope, in Eve you are a target, if you're not my friend, you're my enemy. In short the only difference between another player and an NPC is that NPCs don't act like infants when they die.
Quote:you're not suppose to light us on fire and blow us up with firecrackers just to see us get mad that you wish to prove you're a bad person. You're suppose to want to play with us, respectfully. What game are you playing? It's certainly not Eve.
Quote:But you don't see that, all you see us as is tools to make yourself feel better. But I'm not your tool, I'm a human being and I have feelings, which you obviously do not.
Which is why you are broken.
It's a role playing game, as such it is a fantasy, fantasy is an escape.
Now if people acted in real life as they do in game you might have a point, they don't so your so called point is invalid.
Fanfest and OOG meetups prove that people who will quite happily murder and steal from each other in game are also quite happy to buy each other beers and chat amicably in a real life setting, because they can separate their fantasy life from their real life, something you seem to be incapable of. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:24:00 -
[852] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mandarine wrote: It's a good job that CCP aren't trying to attract millions of gamers, they're not trying to be EA or Blizzard.
All evidence to date points to CCP being quite happy to continue with the current formula of Eve, and remain as an independent developer producing a highly successful, long lived and brutal MMORPG in the vein of Ultima Online, from which many of the original devs hail.
Many game devs have found, to their chagrin, that trying to be WoW 2.0 is a surefire path to failure.
I don-¦t see that WoWish rpgs are sandboxes. And remember why UO was trammelized, imposing hardcoded limitations on pvp.
When the technology allows for a million concurrent players, do you think CCP will still be content with 70-80k?
Jenn aSide wrote:
You think people like you are 'regular'. Hell, you might even be right because most MMOs coddle people in a warm blanket of safety and false hero-hood.
Why in hell would anyone want to be 'regular' or surrounded by 'regular' people who can't figure out how to do anything extraordinary in a game or in real life? Do you like boredom?
We see this thinking all the time here, the "EVE would get more subs if {insert anti-EVE feature here}" idea. Why not play a game that isn't made by psycho pvp players instead and let the "griefers" (and their allies, such as me) have their own space. Must everything be some bland "equality" type thing.
I think these ideas (of yours) are the true cancer. not content to control the bulk of the MMO world, you types must also have the EVEs of the world to. No niche or difference is allowed.
I think that "regular" gamers image their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game. They are playing a game, and having fantasies that take place within the game.
In a sandbox environment, this allows for all kinds of heroic and dastardly actions, mind you.
You think that MMOs are bland and railroad experiences because of "regular" players. But, as I wrote above, remember why UO was trammelized. The griefers-¦ playstyle imposed this.
The problem lies not with the "regular" gamer, who wants to play pretend and actually enjoys open environments. It lies with the griefer type, who does not see the ingame narrative as an end it itself, but merely uses the game as a platform to experience Schadenfreude. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using the game as a platform.
And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:26:00 -
[853] - Quote
Schmata Bastanold wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Schmata Bastanold wrote:Exploding your cute little ventures at lowsec belts is my way of playing with you. Last time I checked that was not against any rule. Did I miss something? Maybe you missed that point saying: cold, harsh universe where YOU shape your destiny? You can come blow up my venture if you want. Just don't be upset when I label you as someone I can't trust and treat you as such. Why would I get upset about what you think about my in-game character? She is a pirate and flashy red and she acts accordingly.
OK, you told me you're a pirate. Got it. Mission accomplished. I now know not to ever trust you. Thanks for telling me before hand so I don't have to find out another way that could be damaging to myself.
Thanks. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16835
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:28:00 -
[854] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Whatever guy you pick what you want to believe. Difference is mine is fastened in reality while yours is the product of your ego justifying your actions to prevent you from analyzing yourself to avoid admitting your imperfect. This isn't my first rodeo. Your subtle attempts at manipulation are so aol it's embarrassing.
But don't be mad when I come to the conclusion that based off of your actions, you're someone I can't trust and should warn others not to trust as well.
In the grand scheme of this thread, what statement do you think could have more potential impacton each others game play:
Don't trust Divine Intervention he thinks he's morally superior!
or
Don't trust Mags. He spends hours talking about how it's morally acceptable to lie and steal from people.
Whatever I could've possibly exposed myself for is no where near in comparison to the damage you've done to yourselves continuously trying to justify you're treating other people like garbage.
Irony as well as assumptions now. Man you are scraping the barrel.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4914
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:29:00 -
[855] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: You're suppose to want to play with us, respectfully.
I think this is another example of the narrow perspective I mentioned. They are 'supposed' to play with 'us' anyway they choose within the ToS and EULA. Being a douche is not illegal. You are of course free to dislike them, |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:30:00 -
[856] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Whatever guy you pick what you want to believe. Difference is mine is fastened in reality while yours is the product of your ego justifying your actions to prevent you from analyzing yourself to avoid admitting your imperfect. This isn't my first rodeo. Your subtle attempts at manipulation are so aol it's embarrassing.
But don't be mad when I come to the conclusion that based off of your actions, you're someone I can't trust and should warn others not to trust as well.
In the grand scheme of this thread, what statement do you think could have more potential impacton each others game play:
Don't trust Divine Intervention he thinks he's morally superior!
or
Don't trust Mags. He spends hours talking about how it's morally acceptable to lie and steal from people.
Whatever I could've possibly exposed myself for is no where near in comparison to the damage you've done to yourselves continuously trying to justify you're treating other people like garbage.
Irony as well as assumptions now. Man you are scraping the barrel.
You say what you want. I'm still right, you're still wrong.
It's demonstrated by our play styles. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4914
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:31:00 -
[857] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Don't trust Divine Intervention he thinks he's morally superior!
or
Don't trust Mags. He spends hours talking about how it's morally acceptable to lie and steal from people.
Mags wins, on the grounds that he, unlike you, are able to keep a video game in context. I'd trust Mags with my space-life..just not my space-isk... |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
1463
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:31:00 -
[858] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:OK, you told me you're a pirate. Got it. Mission accomplished. I now know not to ever trust you. Thanks for telling me before hand so I don't have to find out another way that could be damaging to myself.
Thanks.
Nope, Schmata is a pirate. Other character is near perfect trader and currently training for freighters. Another one just sits in Jita and tell my trader about prices. Another one flies around newbie systems and helps newbies in missions. Yet another is six days from sitting in command ship and will continue toward maxed out links and then finish probing skills.
I am 35 yo software developer, married, no kids. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:31:00 -
[859] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: You're suppose to want to play with us, respectfully.
I think this is another example of the narrow perspective I mentioned. They are 'supposed' to play with 'us' anyway they choose within the ToS and EULA. Being a douche is not illegal. You are of course free to dislike them,
No where in the EULA or TOS does it say you have to be a douche.
You make that choice. Because you choose to be a douche, since the game isn't making you a douche, I get to think of you as one. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16835
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:31:00 -
[860] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
You say what you want. I'm still right, you're still wrong.
It's demonstrated by our play styles.
But without proof and based on your assumptions. Yea, we know already.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4914
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:31:00 -
[861] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
You say what you want. I'm still right, you're still wrong.
It's demonstrated by our play styles.
You forgot to say "naa naa nee boo boo, stick your head in doo do" at the end of your post.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:32:00 -
[862] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You say what you want. I'm still right, you're still wrong.
It's demonstrated by our play styles.
You forgot to say "naa naa nee boo boo, stick your head in doo do" at the end of your post.
Are you accusing me of acting childish?
That's pretty funny coming from a guy who's objective is to make others miserable.
Hypocrite |
Frank Millar
465
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:34:00 -
[863] - Quote
This is getting pretty tiresome, Divine Whatever. Biomass yourself already. |
Marsha Mallow
95
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:35:00 -
[864] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You can come blow up my venture if you want. Just don't be upset when I label you as someone I can't trust and treat you as such. Exploding your ship really isn't all that personal from some points of view. It's just another target. Fair enough some people are obnoxious about it, but assuming PVP is synoymous with griefing or that the player has psychological issues is pretty wierd. What on earth do people come to a PVP sandbox and expect? We just want to play with you (violently)!
Mandarine wrote:And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one. If people scream when their pixels explode, it's really hard to keep a straight face. Go blow a few people up, get into the spirit of the game rather than judging everyone else for doing so, and that moral superiority/victim mentality might shift a few degrees. The fact that a lot of devs pvp should be indicative of the philosophy of the game. You don't see them posting claiming to roleplay victims of griefers eh. - |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:36:00 -
[865] - Quote
Frank Millar wrote:This is getting pretty tiresome, Divine Whatever. Biomass yourself already.
Hey man I'm new to eve, can you explain what bio mass implies? |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:36:00 -
[866] - Quote
But Jenn is hot. You look gay... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19679
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:37:00 -
[867] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You say what you want. I'm still right, you're still wrong.
It's demonstrated by our play styles. You don't even know what my play style is. So no, you're still using nothing but assumptions and prejudice to guide you. You are inherently wrong.
Quote:That's pretty funny coming from a guy who's objective is to make others miserable. What makes you claim that? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:38:00 -
[868] - Quote
So... page # 27. Divine, I suspect that you are the sort of person who insists on the last word... Amusing! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4915
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:38:00 -
[869] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
You say what you want. I'm still right, you're still wrong.
It's demonstrated by our play styles.
You forgot to say "naa naa nee boo boo, stick your head in doo do" at the end of your post. Are you accusing me of acting childish? That's pretty funny coming from a guy who's objective is to make others miserable. Hypocrite
What? Where did I say my objective is to make others miserable.
Are you that childish? How old are you?
|
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
460
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:38:00 -
[870] - Quote
Before this thread receives it's final inevitable lock, hopefully this is a summary of the reasons listed to the original question of why people on the forum appear to be negative:
- Strong HTFU attitude predominant in EvE where hostility in game carries over to the forum
- In general people are rabbits that cluster around common ideas and attack anything else
- People with negative opinions are more vocal (vocal minority)
- Anonymity of the Internet
- They forget the "G" in MMORPG and fail to separate real life from fiction
- A lot of threads contain nerfs to someone else's play, so are attacked to preserve current state
- Reposting the same thing over and over and over is very tiring
- Crap ideas deserve to be criticised
- Threads are posted in the wrong forums, particularly in relation to GD
- Trolls and feeding
- Easier to attack a person than their ideas
- Threads can begin negatively, so attract negative responses and it spirals
- EvE appeals to aggressive people, who carry that over to the forum
- The forum is an extension of the game and being the villain is valid
- Everything constructive was covered long ago, so there are no fresh, exciting topics
- It's easier to tear an idea down than to help improve it
- Posters develop perceptions of other posters and base responses on the perception rather than the post
- Moderation doesn't support people, so they have to be negative to defend themselves
- Lack of empathy and no real consequences
- Small **** syndrome
- Because some people want to be negative and the forum allows them to be
- Arrogance and self importance
- Some threads start with false facts (even deliberately) in order to produce negativity
- Lack of ability to use the search function before New Topic
- People lack personal control
- Shotposting deserve a **** response
- Something about hungry hippos (just added for some lightness to the list)
- Game is actually balanced between good and bad, but good tends to stay in game, so bad on the forum is the balance
- All video game forums are where negative people congregate
- Because bitter vets
- The game is based on competing aims between players which carries over to the forum
- There's no cake (see above earlier comment)
- Other real life frustration is released here (sexual was the example used)
- Because perception of negativity doesn't always match the posters reality
- People who suck at the game release their frustration here
- To generate tears
Anymore I missed?
It was only a quick gleen through the thread, so I may have missed some.
Anymore to add?
Many of those could probably be combined into single ideas and the list shortened, but I'll just leave it as is.
Now we need the "I enjoy all the positivity of the foums, why are people so positive" balancing thread (it will be short). eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:40:00 -
[871] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:You can come blow up my venture if you want. Just don't be upset when I label you as someone I can't trust and treat you as such. Exploding your ship really isn't all that personal from some points of view. It's just another target. Fair enough some people are obnoxious about it, but assuming PVP is synoymous with griefing or that the player has psychological issues is pretty wierd. What on earth do people come to a PVP sandbox and expect? We just want to play with you (violently)! Mandarine wrote:And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one. If people scream when their pixels explode, it's really hard to keep a straight face. Go blow a few people up, get into the spirit of the game rather than judging everyone else for doing so, and that moral superiority/victim mentality might shift a few degrees. The fact that a lot of devs pvp should be indicative of the philosophy of the game. You don't see them posting claiming to roleplay victims of griefers eh.
if I'm in high sec mining and a guy chooses to want to blow up my venture, well I get to think he's loathsome for imposing his desire to kill me when I obviously wanted safety upon me. If he wanted to PvP he would find someone in low sec or null who is also looking for pvp. Instead, he made the choice to prey upon the weak and defenseless. he didn't have to, he made that choice.
Because he made that choice, I'm allowed to classify him as someone who makes that choice. He chooses to be a despicable person. He imposes his desires onto others, in this instance on me in particular for his own benefit with no regard to my feelings. That's a disrespectful act and it defines the person.
Now I don't want that option removed from the game. I enjoy the potential. But on the other side of the coin, I'm still going to label him as a person who is untrustworthy. Because he's shown me he is capable of putting his own feelings ahead of everyone elses regardless of the expense inflicted upon them. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
107952
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:45:00 -
[872] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Are you accusing me of acting childish?
It's hardly an accusation. It's a statement of truth.
You've been sh**ing up other Forums and threads today as well.
Lot's of alcohol is bad, m'kay ? Now, that is an accusation. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
107957
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:47:00 -
[873] - Quote
BrundleMeth wrote:But Jenn is hot. You look gay...
What does gay look like ?
I'm a 48 year old gay male who lived in San Fran for 17 years and I was more wrong than right in both directions guessing who is what.
Can I hear from your "expert" self about this ???? "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19680
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:47:00 -
[874] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:if I'm in high sec mining and a guy chooses to want to blow up my venture, well I get to think he's loathsome for imposing his desire to kill me when I obviously wanted safety upon me. Of course you get to think that. It's just that you have pretty much nothing to support any assumption about what kind of person he is outside of the game. You also get to hear that you have fundamentally misunderstood how EVE works since you think that just because you want safety, you get safety.
You actually have to impose your desire for safety on him in much the same way as he imposes his desires onto you. It's just part and parcel of a full-PvP sandbox game.
Quote:Because he made that choice, I'm allowed to classify him as someone who makes that choice. GǪbut you're not really allowed to classify him as any kind of person because you have nothing to connect his in-game behaviour with his out-of-game personality or morality or character. If you do, you have some very serious problems separating game from reality, and that's something you probably need to have fixed.
Quote:That's a disrespectful act and it defines the person. It's no more disrespectful than your desire for safety, and it is far less disrespectful than the prejudice you exhibit towards the player behind that character. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4920
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:48:00 -
[875] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Are you accusing me of acting childish?
It's hardly an accusation. It's a statement of truth. You've been sh**ing up other Forums and threads today as well. Lot's of alcohol is bad, m'kay ? Now, that is an accusation.
Well I hate false accusations and I've been the victim of those a lot (apparently telling raw truth is now "trolling").
But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16836
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:49:00 -
[876] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Well I hate false accusations and I've been the victim of those a lot (apparently telling raw truth is now "trolling").
But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?
I thought that early on and tested the waters, so to speak. It's quite obvious now.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:50:00 -
[877] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Mandarine wrote:And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one. If people scream when their pixels explode, it's really hard to keep a straight face. Go blow a few people up, get into the spirit of the game rather than judging everyone else for doing so, and that moral superiority/victim mentality might shift a few degrees. The fact that a lot of devs pvp should be indicative of the philosophy of the game. You don't see them posting claiming to roleplay victims of griefers eh.
There is a huge gaping difference between what the common gaming sense describes as PvP (somewhat consensual, somewhat balanced engagements), and ganks/griefs, where all manners of imbalances and non-consensuality are sought, for the express purpose of making the gankees mad and read/hear them rage.
That quite a few pvpers despise gankers and griefers should also hint at the fact that the actions of the latter do not fall within the magic circle, since they develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform, not as means in itself, which would entail trying to create a narrative that would be fun for all.
Because, once again, games are more fun when everybody has at least some fun, just like parties or sexual intercourse. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:51:00 -
[878] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Are you accusing me of acting childish?
It's hardly an accusation. It's a statement of truth. You've been sh**ing up other Forums and threads today as well. Lot's of alcohol is bad, m'kay ? Now, that is an accusation. Well I hate false accusations and I've been the victim of those a lot (apparently telling raw truth is now "trolling"). But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?
I don't think it's stealthy at all.
Alternatively, it might be someone trying to set some sort of strange (bad) posting record. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
460
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:56:00 -
[879] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:I don't think it's stealthy at all.
Alternatively, it might be someone trying to set some sort of strange (bad) posting record.
+1 to this. It's not stealthy at all. He's getting his personal enjoyment out of this. No more, no less.
Troll has become a hackneyed term now, but IMHO, we actually have one here at the moment. Feeding is bad, but sometimes it just has to be done.
eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16811
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:57:00 -
[880] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
I don-¦t see that WoWish rpgs are sandboxes. And remember why UO was trammelized, imposing hardcoded limitations on pvp.
When the technology allows for a million concurrent players, do you think CCP will still be content with 70-80k?
As you say UO was trammelised which imposed hardcoded restrictions on PvP, did that make UO more successful? In the short term yes, in the long term it effectively killed the game. We don't want that to happen to Eve, neither do the devs. As I said earlier early CCP devs came from UO, a pre-trammel UO.
As for CCP being happy with 70-80K online at any one time? I'm sure they'd be happy with that, it's nearly double current figures.
The server that CCP are using is already one of the most powerful gaming servers out there, IIRC some of the kit is so cutting edge that CCP are the only group using it. A million concurrent users is a pipe dream, no other game manages it without sharding, and Eve is very much a single shard game, which is part of its appeal.
Quote:I think that "regular" gamers image their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game. They are playing a game, and having fantasies that take place within the game.
In a sandbox environment, this allows for all kinds of heroic and dastardly actions, mind you.
You think that MMOs are bland and railroad experiences because of "regular" players. But, as I wrote above, remember why UO was trammelized. The griefers-¦ playstyle imposed this. Nope the devs made the mistake of listening to the people that failed to understand that UO was originally an open PvP world, that'd be people like you
Quote:The problem lies not with the "regular" gamer, who wants to play pretend and actually enjoys open environments. It lies with the griefer type, who does not see the ingame narrative as an end it itself, but merely uses the game as a platform to experience Schadenfreude. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using the game as a platform. Bollocks, you're now talking out of your arse, the problem is with people that come to a game and refuse to adapt to its environment. I don't go to HKO and ask for open world PvP to be implemented, because HKO isn't that type of game, why do people come to Eve and ask CCP to water it down into something that it is not?
Quote:And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one. The terms griefer and ganker are subjective, what you see as griefing, others see as legitimate gameplay, including the only people whose opinion, CCP.
Eve is not a mainstream game, CCP know it, most of us know it. It's a niche game offering an open world PvP sandbox, which is why many of us play it, even if some of us decide not to avail ourselves of all the possibilities it offers. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:59:00 -
[881] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Are you accusing me of acting childish?
It's hardly an accusation. It's a statement of truth. You've been sh**ing up other Forums and threads today as well. Lot's of alcohol is bad, m'kay ? Now, that is an accusation.
I don't drink. I agree lots of alcohol is bad. I use to drink like 7 years ago, not alot, but still enough to realize I don't enjoy it.
Maybe it's your truth, but you being a person who condones and supports people acting like dicks to each other is proof that your goal is to upset others, removing validity from your statements and classifying you as a person unworthy of having their opinion respected. |
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3151
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 18:59:00 -
[882] - Quote
Quote:But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?
There's absolutely no doubt that all the majority of his posts equal is trolling, quite heavily.
Although after going over the same posts you mention, and having a couple private convos with him, I'm not sure he actually realises he's being the very same kind of troll he preaches against.
But then again he does advertise his self-proclaimed forum-awesomeness a little overtly, which then makes me second guess whether he means to troll or not.
Who knows. All I know is that he's not debating things to reach a consensus or conclusion - he's simply arguing for arguments sake, either to troll others or as an outlet for his own issues somehow. Hence I won't waste too much of my own time riding his self-indulgent ferris wheel. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:01:00 -
[883] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mandarine wrote:
I don-¦t see that WoWish rpgs are sandboxes. And remember why UO was trammelized, imposing hardcoded limitations on pvp.
When the technology allows for a million concurrent players, do you think CCP will still be content with 70-80k?
As you say UO was trammelised which imposed hardcoded restrictions on PvP, did that make UO more successful? In the short term yes, in the long term it effectively killed the game. We don't want that to happen to Eve, neither do the devs. As I said earlier early CCP devs came from UO, a pre-trammel UO. As for CCP being happy with 70-80K online at any one time? I'm sure they'd be happy with that, it's nearly double current figures. The server that CCP are using is already one of the most powerful gaming servers out there, IIRC some of the kit is so cutting edge that CCP are the only civilian group using it. A million concurrent users is a pipe dream, no other game manages it without sharding, and Eve is very much a single shard game, which is part of its appeal. Quote:I think that "regular" gamers image their favorite character, whom they impersonate, waging battles, solving puzzles, interacting in some form or another with other player-controlled characters, all in the environment of the game. They are playing a game, and having fantasies that take place within the game.
In a sandbox environment, this allows for all kinds of heroic and dastardly actions, mind you.
You think that MMOs are bland and railroad experiences because of "regular" players. But, as I wrote above, remember why UO was trammelized. The griefers-¦ playstyle imposed this. Nope the devs made the mistake of listening to the people that failed to understand that UO was originally an open PvP world, that'd be people like you Quote:The problem lies not with the "regular" gamer, who wants to play pretend and actually enjoys open environments. It lies with the griefer type, who does not see the ingame narrative as an end it itself, but merely uses the game as a platform to experience Schadenfreude. They develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using the game as a platform. Bollocks, you're now talking out of your arse, the problem is with people that come to a game and refuse to adapt to its environment. I don't go to HKO and ask for open world PvP to be implemented, because HKO isn't that type of game, why do people come to Eve and ask CCP to water it down into something that it is not? Quote:And to clarify, there are in New Eden a lot of pirates and pvpers who do not fall at all into the griefer/ganker category. Actually, those are a minority, albeit a vocal one. The terms griefer and ganker are subjective, what you see as griefing, others see as legitimate gameplay, including the only people whose opinion, CCP. Eve is not a mainstream game, CCP know it, most of us know it. It's a niche game offering an open world PvP sandbox, which is why many of us play it, even if some of us decide not to avail ourselves of all the possibilities it offers.
Griefing may be allowed, but so too is the right to label griefers as people not worth associating with.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:03:00 -
[884] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:Quote:But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?
There's absolutely no doubt that all the majority of his posts equal is trolling, quite heavily. Although after going over the same posts you mention, and having a couple private convos with him, I'm not sure he actually realises he's being the very same kind of troll he preaches against. But then again he does advertise his self-proclaimed forum-awesomeness a little overtly, which then makes me second guess whether he means to troll or not. Who knows. All I know is that he's not debating things to reach a consensus or conclusion - he's simply arguing for arguments sake, either to troll others or as an outlet for his own issues somehow. Hence I won't waste too much of my own time riding his self-indulgent ferris wheel.
You think I didn't know you were trying to play me? High opinion of yourself much I see. |
Marsha Mallow
99
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:03:00 -
[885] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:if I'm in high sec mining and a guy chooses to want to blow up my venture, well I get to think he's loathsome for imposing his desire to kill me when I obviously wanted safety upon me. If he wanted to PvP he would find someone in low sec or null who is also looking for pvp. Instead, he made the choice to prey upon the weak and defenseless. he didn't have to, he made that choice.
Because he made that choice, I'm allowed to classify him as someone who makes that choice. He chooses to be a despicable person. He imposes his desires onto others, in this instance on me in particular for his own benefit with no regard to my feelings. That's a disrespectful act and it defines the person.
Now I don't want that option removed from the game. I enjoy the potential. But on the other side of the coin, I'm still going to label him as a person who is untrustworthy. Because he's shown me he is capable of putting his own feelings ahead of everyone elses regardless of the expense inflicted upon them.
Mandarine wrote: There is a huge gaping difference between what the common gaming sense describes as PvP (somewhat consensual, somewhat balanced engagements), and ganks/griefs, where all manners of imbalances and non-consensuality are sought, for the express purpose of making the gankees mad and read/hear them rage.
That quite a few pvpers despise gankers and griefers should also hint at the fact that the actions of the latter do not fall within the magic circle, since they develop glee by witnessing their own selves (i:e. not their character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which they have created by using a video game as a platform, not as means in itself, which would entail trying to create a narrative that would be fun for all.
Because, once again, games are more fun when everybody has at least some fun, just like parties or sexual intercourse.
It's not a single player game. There is no "minding my own business" mode. There are no non-combat ships (battlebadger ftw) - even Jump Freighters can be used as bait. There aren't defencelss players, usually just ignorant ones. You are willingly engaging in economic PVP when you mine. We are willingly engaged with PVP in all forms, everywhere. The defence against gankers and griefing is typically to engage brain and play in specific ways with other people. If you can't and won't, welcome to the forums where you can flail about impotently demanding sympathy from the very people likely to shoot you in the face.
ps. speak for yourself re sex Mandarine. Some of us are more than happy to be the only one having fun. - |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:04:00 -
[886] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:I don't think it's stealthy at all.
Alternatively, it might be someone trying to set some sort of strange (bad) posting record. +1 to this. It's not stealthy at all. He's getting his personal enjoyment out of this. No more, no less. Troll has become a hackneyed term now, but IMHO, we actually have one here at the moment. Feeding is bad, but sometimes it just has to be done.
My vote is to let Tippia deal with it.
I've always suspected that she is either an advanced AI created specifically to troll trolling attempts, or that she sprung, like Athena, fully formed from the forehead of the God of Cynicism & Patience. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4922
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:06:00 -
[887] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote:
Although after going over the same posts you mention, and having a couple private convos with him, I'm not sure he actually realises he's being the very same kind of troll he preaches against.
Not going to derail too much on the guy (lol, like this thread isn't derailed), but i get the same feeling. There is an wiff of being divorced from reality in his posts. And others things I can't quite put my finger on lol. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
463
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:07:00 -
[888] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:My vote is to let Tippia deal with it.
I've always suspected that she is either an advanced AI created specifically to troll trolling attempts, or that she sprung, like Athena, fully formed from the forehead of the God of Cynicism & Patience.
good suggestion.
It would be great if a DEV or GM dealt with it once and for all. eve-bazaar - I'm not associated with them, but support it as a worthwhile service |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19681
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:11:00 -
[889] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Griefing may be allowed, but so too is the right to label griefers as people not worth associating with. It's not allowed. You know that, right?
Victoria Thorne wrote:My vote is to let Tippia deal with it. You are a horrible person. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:12:00 -
[890] - Quote
It's totally hilarious that the people arguing their actions are not a representation of themselves are the ones talking about a disconnect from reality.
You're completely backwards |
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16838
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:13:00 -
[891] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:My vote is to let Tippia deal with it. You are a horrible person. You've already beaten him, but it was fun to watch all the same.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16811
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:15:00 -
[892] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I don't drink. I agree lots of alcohol is bad. I use to drink like 7 years ago, not alot, but still enough to realize I don't enjoy it.
Maybe it's your truth, but you being a person who condones and supports people acting like dicks to each other is proof that your goal is to upset others, removing validity from your statements and classifying you as a person unworthy of having their opinion respected. While I disagree with Krixtal on a number of things, I can safely say that he's overall a pretty nice guy, he accepts Eve for what it is, and plays despite that.
Quote:Griefing may be allowed, but so too is the right to label griefers as people not worth associating with.
As is our right to call you a fool for doing so, and believing that people who blow you up and steal your stuff, in a game about blowing people up and stealing their stuff, would do the same in real life.
You're suffering from a reality disconnect, Eve is not reality, and reality is not Eve.
Quote:You think I didn't know you were trying to play me? High opinion of yourself much I see. Once again, pot meet kettle.
Hypocrite much?
|
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3155
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:16:00 -
[893] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Erica Dusette wrote:Quote:But I'm gonna say this anyways: Seeing these posts and posts in other forum sections, anyone else think this is some kind of massive stealthy troll?
There's absolutely no doubt that all the majority of his posts equal is trolling, quite heavily. Although after going over the same posts you mention, and having a couple private convos with him, I'm not sure he actually realises he's being the very same kind of troll he preaches against. But then again he does advertise his self-proclaimed forum-awesomeness a little overtly, which then makes me second guess whether he means to troll or not. Who knows. All I know is that he's not debating things to reach a consensus or conclusion - he's simply arguing for arguments sake, either to troll others or as an outlet for his own issues somehow. Hence I won't waste too much of my own time riding his self-indulgent ferris wheel. You think I didn't know you were trying to play me? High opinion of yourself much I see. How do you mean "play you"?
When I sent you a couple PMS earlier in the week it was to offer some very genuine, friendly insight into EVE's community. You were obviously very passionate about what you were posting, as skewed as I found your views, and I thought I could help out.
All I got in reply was arrogant claims of your own awesomeness, sent so quickly that it was obvious you hadn't even fully read the messages I took the time to write you.
Likewise when I convo'd you it was just to have a friendly chat, see where you were at in your EVE career and how things were going. It was a decent, but short conversation. I do admit though that the paranoia you displayed regarding my convo and asking you if your corp does organized Plex fleets left me a little gob-smacked lol
I'm guessing you find the environment here rather intimidating and you're still trying to find your place and your feet. This whole forum-trolling episode of yours is either your way of dealing with that, asserting yourself, or simply for pure ***** and giggles. I couldn't say which, only you'd know for sure.
Sorry if you feel somehow cheated. But maybe if you cut back on the ****-posting a little and open yourself up to enjoying the game and people in it you'll find there's some genuinely nice folks like me who try to share it with you. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Ai Shun
1158
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:17:00 -
[894] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:It would be great if a DEV or GM dealt with it once and for all.
Or, you know, put him on Ignore. That way you don't see his posts (unless others quote him) and once people stop talking to him he'll be alone in his echo chamber, just as he wants to be. Be humane. Give him what he wants.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19684
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:18:00 -
[895] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:It's totally hilarious that the people arguing their actions are not a representation of themselves are the ones talking about a disconnect from reality. Since the actions are in-game and since there is no way to transpose those actions into any kind of remotely reliable information about the person, it's pretty healthy to be able to make that distinction. The inability to do so is very regarded as some kind of pathological cognitive disconnect.
Quote:You're completely backwards No. Just aware of the fact that it's a game and that it and reality are separate contexts. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:19:00 -
[896] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Tippia wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:My vote is to let Tippia deal with it. You are a horrible person. You've already beaten him, but it was fun to watch all the same.
There's no point talking to him. He wont acknowledge the basic idea that it's the people at their keyboards making the choices. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4923
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:19:00 -
[897] - Quote
Erica Dusette wrote: How do you mean "play you"?
When I sent you a couple PMS earlier in the week it was to offer some very genuine, friendly insight into EVE's community. You were obviously very passionate about what you were posting, as skewed as I found your views, and I thought I could help out.
All I got in reply was arrogant claims of your own awesomeness, sent so quickly that it was obvious you hadn't even fully read the messages I took the time to write you.
Likewise when I convo'd you it was just to have a friendly chat, see where you were at in your EVE career and how things were going. It was a decent, but short conversation. I do admit though that the paranoia you displayed regarding my convo and asking you if your corp does organized Plex fleets left me a little gob-smacked lol
I'm guessing you find the environment here rather intimidating and you're still trying to find your place and your feet. This whole forum-trolling episode of yours is either your way of dealing with that, asserting yourself, or simply for pure ***** and giggles. I couldn't say which, only you'd know for sure.
Sorry if you feel somehow cheated. But maybe if you cut back on the ****-posting a little and open yourself up to enjoying the game and people in it you'll find there's some genuinely nice folks like me who try to share it with you.
Click here, scroll down to the list, read 1., 3, and 5.
Then do like i did and start shivering..... |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16813
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:19:00 -
[898] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:It would be great if a DEV or GM dealt with it once and for all. Or, you know, put him on Ignore. That way you don't see his posts (unless others quote him) and once people stop talking to him he'll be alone in his echo chamber, just as he wants to be. Be humane. Give him what he wants. Eve Offline is probably more to his taste than Eve Online.
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:20:00 -
[899] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:]As you say UO was trammelised which imposed hardcoded restrictions on PvP, did that make UO more successful? In the short term yes, in the long term it effectively killed the game. We don't want that to happen to Eve, neither do the devs. As I said earlier early CCP devs came from UO, a pre-trammel UO.
As for CCP being happy with 70-80K online at any one time? I'm sure they'd be happy with that, it's nearly double current figures.
The server that CCP are using is already one of the most powerful gaming servers out there, IIRC some of the kit is so cutting edge that CCP are the only group using it. A million concurrent users is a pipe dream, no other game manages it without sharding, and Eve is very much a single shard game, which is part of its appeal.
The devs made the mistake of listening to the people that failed to understand that UO was originally an open PvP world, that'd be people like you
Bollocks, you're now talking out of your arse, the problem is with people that come to a game and refuse to adapt to its environment. I don't go to HKO and ask for open world PvP to be implemented, because HKO isn't that type of game, why do people come to Eve and ask CCP to water it down into something that it is not?
The terms griefer and ganker are subjective, what you see as griefing, others see as legitimate gameplay, including the only people whose opinion, CCP.
Eve is not a mainstream game, CCP know it, most of us know it. It's a niche game offering an open world PvP sandbox, which is why many of us play it, even if some of us decide not to avail ourselves of all the possibilities it offers.
Do you know why the vast majority of MMOs are not sandboxes? Because MMO devs saw what happened with UO. This attracts the griefer type, and they-¦d rather hardcode limitations from the start rather than have to deal with balancing griefing.
So, quite bluntly, we now have crappy non-sandboxy MMOs because a minority of gamers enjoy being jerks online. Do you find it amusing? I don-¦t.
I don-¦t think sandox games have to be watered-down, I think that the type of gamer who develops glee by witnessing his own self (i:e. not his character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which he has created by using a video game as a platform, has no place in an online game. Three strikes and he should be IP banned, so the sandbox can accommodate "regular" gamers who enjoy having fun with each other instead of at each other-¦s expense.
And having fun with each other does not mean there-¦s no PvP, quite the contrary. But PvP that is seen as an ingame action and goal, rather as a means to make some dude mad.
Griefers can use legitimate gameplay to experience Schadenfreude, but what matters is what they are after: ingame fantasies, or the feeling of impure joy because their RL self has made somebody rage IRL?
Marsha Mallow wrote: It's not a single player game. There is no "minding my own business" mode. There are no non-combat ships (battlebadger ftw) - even Jump Freighters can be used as bait. There aren't defencelss players, usually just ignorant ones. You are willingly engaging in economic PVP when you mine. We are willingly engaged with PVP in all forms, everywhere. The defence against gankers and griefing is typically to engage brain and play in specific ways with other people. If you can't and won't, welcome to the forums where you can flail about impotently demanding sympathy from the very people likely to shoot you in the face.
ps. speak for yourself re sex Mandarine. Some of us are more than happy to be the only one having fun.
PvP is awesome when players want to play pretend. Ganking is an abomination, as it falls outside the magic circle and is just online sadism.
Regarding sex, if you can-¦t make it good for your partner, you have no place in a relationship. Much like you have no place in a game environment if you don-¦t want others to have fun.
It-¦s like I-¦m debating with randroids. Are you people capable of empathy? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:20:00 -
[900] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:It would be great if a DEV or GM dealt with it once and for all. Or, you know, put him on Ignore. That way you don't see his posts (unless others quote him) and once people stop talking to him he'll be alone in his echo chamber, just as he wants to be. Be humane. Give him what he wants. This is definitely an option. I've put multiple people in this thread on ignore. You have the same option just as I do. Another choice. |
|
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:25:00 -
[901] - Quote
Come on guys 30 pages is sooo close... I know you can do it!
Even after mass moderation you've showed staying power above and beyond what was required. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4923
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:26:00 -
[902] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
Do you know why the vast majority of MMOs are not sandboxes? Because MMO devs saw what happened with UO. This attracts the griefer type, and they-¦d rather hardcode limitations from the start rather than have to deal with balancing griefing.
So, quite bluntly, we now have crappy non-sandboxy MMOs because a minority of gamers enjoy being jerks online. Do you find it amusing? I don-¦t.
This part is telling, because it's what politicians do: Blame the group of people they don't like for a situation they couldn't possibly have been responsible for.
Show me ONE game maker who said they made their MMORPG a themepark type game because of UO (or any other) griefers.
Quote: It-¦s like I-¦m debating with randroids. Are you people capable of empathy?
This is another one of them smoking guns that tells you that the speaker has some in real life extremest political views as well as incorrect gaming views (and no, I'm not a follower of Ayn Rand or anyone else named rand).
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19687
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:26:00 -
[903] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:There's no point talking to him. He wont acknowledge the basic idea that it's the people at their keyboards making the choices. Incorrect. I just don't consider it relevant. You were unable to cope with this hiccup in your plans since it blew your false dichotomy out of the water and you were hoping to be able to find an avenue of escape using it.
Who makes the decisions only matters if you can draw any conclusions from it, and you have consistently show yourself incapable of doing exactly that.
Mandarine wrote:PvP is awesome when players want to play pretend. Ganking is an abomination, as it falls outside the magic circle and is just online sadism. No it does not. It's just PvP and exists entirely within the magic circle. You're confusing ganking with griefing and harassment.
Quote:Are you people capable of empathy? Are you capable of logic, argumentation, reasoning and presenting proof of your assertions? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Anhenka
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
246
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:28:00 -
[904] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:~Another moral superiority rant which Divine would be proud of~ ~decrying of people who play differently than him and demanding GM's IP ban them~ ~Comparison of gameplay to ****~
Ok, that's it, thread's twitching less than the revamp POS thread.
Go home people, sort out your life, and decide if you actually want to log in again. If all you want to do is sit around proclaiming your personal superiority to others, then this is not the place for you. The game is not always happy, not always fun. You signed up knowing of the stories told of theft, sabotaging, awoxing, and grand plots, and now want the game to change because you find yourself disliking those same draws. There are MMO's with will allow you perfectly safe solo play. This is not one of them.
Frankly, this thread cannot be locked fast enough. What started out as a whiny rant and appeal for pity turned into a pit of abuse and trolling, got purged of 75% of the posts, then has rapidly skyrocketed back up to a posting frequency and shitslinging pace far beyond that of previous.
Help me ISD whoeverthefuckison, you're my only hope.
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:30:00 -
[905] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Mandarine wrote:~Another moral superiority rant which Divine would be proud of~ ~decrying of people who play differently than him and demanding GM's IP ban them~ ~Comparison of gameplay to ****~ Ok, that's it, thread's twitching less than the revamp POS thread. Go home people, sort out your life, and decide if you actually want to log in again. If all you want to do is sit around proclaiming your personal superiority to others, then this is not the place for you. The game is not always happy, not always fun. You signed up knowing of the stories told of theft, sabotaging, awoxing, and grand plots, and now want the game to change because you find yourself disliking those same draws. There are MMO's with will allow you perfectly safe solo play. This is not one of them. Frankly, this thread cannot be locked fast enough. What started out as a whiny rant and appeal for pity turned into a pit of abuse and trolling, got purged of 75% of the posts, then has rapidly skyrocketed back up to a posting frequency and shitslinging pace far beyond that of previous. Help me ISD whoeverthefuckison, you're my only hope.
Where did I say I want to be safe? I never said I want anyone to stop what they're doing.
I've simply said that I'll make judgements based on my observations. If someone wishes to lie and steal from someone, then I'm going to label him as a bad person. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1598
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:30:00 -
[906] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Mandarine wrote:~Another moral superiority rant which Divine would be proud of~ ~decrying of people who play differently than him and demanding GM's IP ban them~ ~Comparison of gameplay to ****~ Ok, that's it, thread's twitching less than the revamp POS thread. Go home people, sort out your life, and decide if you actually want to log in again. If all you want to do is sit around proclaiming your personal superiority to others, then this is not the place for you. The game is not always happy, not always fun. You signed up knowing of the stories told of theft, sabotaging, awoxing, and grand plots, and now want the game to change because you find yourself disliking those same draws. There are MMO's with will allow you perfectly safe solo play. This is not one of them. Frankly, this thread cannot be locked fast enough. What started out as a whiny rant and appeal for pity turned into a pit of abuse and trolling, got purged of 75% of the posts, then has rapidly skyrocketed back up to a posting frequency and shitslinging pace far beyond that of previous. Help me ISD whoeverthefuckison, you're my only hope.
Not until I get my cozies!!
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16815
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:31:00 -
[907] - Quote
Mandarine wrote: Do you know why the vast majority of MMOs are not sandboxes? Because MMO devs saw what happened with UO. This attracts the griefer type, and they-¦d rather hardcode limitations from the start rather than have to deal with balancing griefing.
Money, pure and simple. Most gamers don't like permanent loss of their stuff, hence the majority of MMOs cater to the majority, Eve does not, which is what's known as a niche game
Quote:So, quite bluntly, we now have crappy non-sandboxy MMOs because a minority of gamers enjoy being jerks online. Do you find it amusing? I don-¦t. We have crappy non sandbox MMOs because the majority of gamers can't cope with a true sandbox like Eve.
Quote:I don-¦t think sandox games have to be watered-down, I think that the type of gamer who develops glee by witnessing his own self (i:e. not his character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which he has created by using a video game as a platform, has no place in an online game. Three strikes and he should be IP banned, so the sandbox can accommodate "regular" gamers who enjoy having fun with each other instead of at each other-¦s expense. Sandbox means that you can try and play any way that you please, it also means that someone else can try and stop you from doing so, because that's the way they want to play.
Quote:And having fun with each other does not mean there-¦s no PvP, quite the contrary. But PvP that is seen as an ingame action and goal, rather as a means to make some dude mad.
Griefers can use legitimate gameplay to experience Schadenfreude, but what matters is what they are after: ingame fantasies, or the feeling of impure joy because their RL self has made somebody rage IRL? When you can come up with irrefutable evidence to back up this claim then maybe people will listen to you, until then you're urinating into the wind. Your opinion is not irrefutable evidence, it's your opinion. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.
Quote:PvP is awesome when players want to play pretend. Ganking is an abomination, as it falls outside the magic circle and is just online sadism. CCP disagree, ganking is considered normal gameplay, if it wasn't they'd have put a stop to it sometime in the last decade.
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4924
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:31:00 -
[908] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:
Help me ISD whoeverthefuckison, you're my only hope.
The rest of the post was good, but this one actually made me spit a little |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19687
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:33:00 -
[909] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Where did I say I want to be safe? Where did he say that you did?
Quote:I've simply said that I'll make judgements based on my observations. If someone wishes to lie and steal from someone, then I'm going to label him as a bad person. GǪwhich makes you prejudiced since all you're doing there is making baseless assumptions.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:34:00 -
[910] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Sandbox means that you can try and play any way that you please, it also means that someone else can try and stop you from doing so, because that's the way they want to play.
Being a person who's goal it is to cause misery in others, others are allowed to conclude the people who do that, since they're real people hurting other real people, are bad people unworthy of respect and trust. |
|
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:35:00 -
[911] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:[quote=Mandarine]
Do you know why the vast majority of MMOs are not sandboxes? Because MMO devs saw what happened with UO. This attracts the griefer type, and they-¦d rather hardcode limitations from the start rather than have to deal with balancing griefing.
So, quite bluntly, we now have crappy non-sandboxy MMOs because a minority of gamers enjoy being jerks online. Do you find it amusing? I don-¦t.
This part is telling, because it's what politicians do: Blame the group of people they don't like for a situation they couldn't possibly have been responsible for.
Show me ONE game maker who said they made their MMORPG a themepark type game because of UO (or any other) griefers.
[quote]
What do you think is easier: constantly create PvE and arena-based PvP content, or let the players create stories amongst themselves?
While you-¦d have to ask a MMO dev about that, because I don-¦t think any has ever reflected on this: it has just become common sense that themeparks with hardcoded PvP limitations are the way to go for mass appeal, but why has it?
Because UO set a unconscious standard, that you can-¦t have nice things in a sandbox: Trammelization due to gankers. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:38:00 -
[912] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Mandarine wrote:~Another moral superiority rant which Divine would be proud of~ ~decrying of people who play differently than him and demanding GM's IP ban them~ ~Comparison of gameplay to ****~ Ok, that's it, thread's twitching less than the revamp POS thread. Go home people, sort out your life, and decide if you actually want to log in again. If all you want to do is sit around proclaiming your personal superiority to others, then this is not the place for you. The game is not always happy, not always fun. You signed up knowing of the stories told of theft, sabotaging, awoxing, and grand plots, and now want the game to change because you find yourself disliking those same draws. There are MMO's with will allow you perfectly safe solo play. This is not one of them. Frankly, this thread cannot be locked fast enough. What started out as a whiny rant and appeal for pity turned into a pit of abuse and trolling, got purged of 75% of the posts, then has rapidly skyrocketed back up to a posting frequency and shitslinging pace far beyond that of previous. Help me ISD whoeverthefuckison, you're my only hope.
You Sir, win this thread and many thanks for your superior forum-fu in showing constructive threads with new ideas far too many pages ago.
I rarely get down that far as I read top to bottom in the forum index and so many threads like this clog the forums and slow people down reading valuable threads like you pointed me to.
Can we at least reorder the forum indexs with GD at the bottom?
With 30 pages done I feel so proud of many others providing valuable content in proving the thread title repeatedly to the point of GD deletion.
Reach around and give yourselves all a pat on the back, you know you deserve it... |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1129
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:39:00 -
[913] - Quote
Oh look, this thread has turned into anothwe 'bad people in eve are bad people IRL', oh joy.
lf I kill a bunch of people in skyrim, it doesn't mean I'm a bad person IRL. If I shoot a bunch of people in counter strike, still not a bad person. If I cause someone's ship to go boom in eve, still not a bad person.
If you disagree with that last bit, you obviously haven't realized that eve is a game. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
108069
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:40:00 -
[914] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:While I disagree with Krixtal on a number of things, I can safely say that he's overall a pretty nice guy, he accepts Eve for what it is, and plays despite that.
Seriously. The past 18 months of missioning, Low sec PI with 5 toons and 30 planets, and hauling crap to Rens, and Ice Mining periodically, and I've only lost that one Bustard 18 months ago. And I know exactly what happened there, and it was my fault.
It's not really that hard. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16817
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:41:00 -
[915] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Sandbox means that you can try and play any way that you please, it also means that someone else can try and stop you from doing so, because that's the way they want to play.
Being a person who's goal it is to cause misery in others, others are allowed to conclude the people who do that, since they're real people hurting other real people, are bad people unworthy of respect and trust. Once again, a reality disconnect.
If people get so upset about the loss of their imaginary space pixels, why are they playing a game that revolves around the loss of said imaginary space pixels?
My Eve persona is completely separate from my real life persona, as I would hope that any healthy individuals is. You can judge people by their ingame actions all you like, that doesn't make your judgement correct, it just makes you judgemental. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4924
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:42:00 -
[916] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
What do you think is easier: constantly create PvE and arena-based PvP content, or let the players create stories amongst themselves?
While you-¦d have to ask a MMO dev about that, because I don-¦t think any has ever reflected on this: it has just become common sense that themeparks with hardcoded PvP limitations are the way to go for mass appeal, but why has it?
Because UO set a unconscious standard, that you can-¦t have nice things in a sandbox: Trammelization due to gankers.
Watch what will happen with EvE when computing technology allows for a million concurrent users, or even half of that.
You're offering an opinion about something you can't prove based on how you think you'd do things is you were in those shoes (ie you think it's easier to make a sandbox game than it is to keep creating content for a themepark, an assertion you have no proof of). "Common Sense" doesn't apply to complex things like business models, because there are so many factors that interact in strange ways.
Rational thinking demands that you question your own motives before subscribing to an opinion. You didn't do that here in any way, shape or form. When an opinion fits too closely into you personal biases, it's time to rethink.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
108069
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:43:00 -
[917] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Maybe it's your truth, but you being a person who condones and supports people acting like dicks to each other is proof that your goal is to upset others, removing validity from your statements and classifying you as a person unworthy of having their opinion respected.
WTF are you even talking about ????
Again, alcohol is bad for you m'kay. You are confusing posters now.
Time for beddy-bye. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:44:00 -
[918] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:
Maybe it's your truth, but you being a person who condones and supports people acting like dicks to each other is proof that your goal is to upset others, removing validity from your statements and classifying you as a person unworthy of having their opinion respected.
WTF are you even talking about ???? Again, alcohol is bad for you m'kay. You are confusing posters now. Time for beddy-bye. I agree.
Don't drink alcohol. It's bad for you. |
Marsha Mallow
103
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:44:00 -
[919] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:PvP is awesome when players want to play pretend. Ganking is an abomination, as it falls outside the magic circle and is just online sadism.
Regarding sex, if you can-¦t make it good for your partner, you have no place in a relationship. Much like you have no place in a game environment if you don-¦t want others to have fun.
It-¦s like I-¦m debating with randroids. Are you people capable of empathy? It's not sadism towards other people from my end, it's indifference. Pew-pew, boom, next! If you want to stop and chat inbetween about how upset that ship loss made you, go ahead, I'm here for you.
Re sex, honestly I think the person involved can usually provide helpful feedback, which can be replied to with "stop your whining and look a bit more grateful". Although the judgement of random strangers on forums is also crucial to successful real life relationships.
- |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:46:00 -
[920] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Sandbox means that you can try and play any way that you please, it also means that someone else can try and stop you from doing so, because that's the way they want to play.
Being a person who's goal it is to cause misery in others, others are allowed to conclude the people who do that, since they're real people hurting other real people, are bad people unworthy of respect and trust. Once again, a reality disconnect. If people get so upset about the loss of their imaginary space pixels, why are they playing a game that revolves around the loss of said imaginary space pixels? My Eve persona is completely separate from my real life persona, as I would hope that any healthy individuals is. You can judge people by their ingame actions all you like, that doesn't make your judgement correct, it just makes you judgemental.
Well I dunno, no one griefs me. some people might get mad at the loss of pixels. I wouldn't.
What would upset me if you lied to me and then stole from me, is the fact that you're a person who chooses to lie and steal.
i would be like, Man that jonah gravenstein guy is the type of person who gets his enjoyment trying to upset others. That guy's got problems if he doesn't take into consideration the potential impact he could have on others feelings. I'll make sure I not trust him and I'll warn others not to trust him either.
Mad over pixels? hahahaha no, you! maybe. not me though. |
|
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:48:00 -
[921] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Mandarine wrote:PvP is awesome when players want to play pretend. Ganking is an abomination, as it falls outside the magic circle and is just online sadism.
Regarding sex, if you can-¦t make it good for your partner, you have no place in a relationship. Much like you have no place in a game environment if you don-¦t want others to have fun.
It-¦s like I-¦m debating with randroids. Are you people capable of empathy? It's not sadism towards other people from my end, it's indifference. Pew-pew, boom, next! If you want to stop and chat inbetween about how upset that ship loss made you, go ahead, I'm here for you. Re sex, honestly I think the person involved can usually provide helpful feedback, which can be replied to with "stop your whining and look a bit more grateful". Although the judgement of random strangers on forums is also crucial to successful real life relationships.
indifference. So you're capable of seperating yourself from the impact your actions could have on others. That's selfish.
From what you've described, you're a selfish person. |
SKINE DMZ
Stay Frosty.
325
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:48:00 -
[922] - Quote
Don't be mad at the person, he is just playing the character, be mad at the character. I disagree |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:49:00 -
[923] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Mandarine wrote:~Another moral superiority rant which Divine would be proud of~ ~decrying of people who play differently than him and demanding GM's IP ban them~ ~Comparison of gameplay to ****~ Ok, that's it, thread's twitching less than the revamp POS thread. Go home people, sort out your life, and decide if you actually want to log in again. If all you want to do is sit around proclaiming your personal superiority to others, then this is not the place for you. The game is not always happy, not always fun. You signed up knowing of the stories told of theft, sabotaging, awoxing, and grand plots, and now want the game to change because you find yourself disliking those same draws. There are MMO's with will allow you perfectly safe solo play. This is not one of them. Frankly, this thread cannot be locked fast enough. What started out as a whiny rant and appeal for pity turned into a pit of abuse and trolling, got purged of 75% of the posts, then has rapidly skyrocketed back up to a posting frequency and shitslinging pace far beyond that of previous. Help me ISD whoeverthefuckison, you're my only hope.
I-¦ve been playing since 2003. I remember that around those times, attacking a naked player doing a corpse run in an Everquest PvP server was considered as a total jerk move. You probably think it-¦s an awesome one.
Who talks about superiority? I-¦m simply stating that people who log with the clear purpose of emotionally harming others have no place in a videogame.
Do you have feelings of inferiority because of some moral shortcomings?
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: CCP disagree, ganking is considered normal gameplay, if it wasn't they'd have put a stop to it sometime in the last decade.
Money. Ganking requires alts, defending against, also.
The commercial choices of CCP have no impact on the fact that many gankers and scammers plainly say that they enjoy the emotional distress they cause, more than any ingame asset or narrative.
The links proving this have been posted time and time again in this thread, and statements from said gankers are all over their blogs.
Marsha Mallow wrote: It's not sadism towards other people from my end, it's indifference. Pew-pew, boom, next! If you want to stop and chat inbetween about how upset that ship loss made you, go ahead, I'm here for you.
Re sex, honestly I think the person involved can usually provide helpful feedback, which can be replied to with "stop your whining and look a bit more grateful". Although the judgement of random strangers on forums is also crucial to successful real life relationships.
Autism & irony, the delicious 201x mix |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19689
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:49:00 -
[924] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:What would upset me if you lied to me and then stole from me, is the fact that you're a person who chooses to lie and steal. GǪbut that's just it: he's not. That's just some baseless assumption you're making. He's just a person who chooses to play a game, same as you.
Quote:i would be like, Man that jonah gravenstein guy is the type of person who gets his enjoyment trying to upset others. That guy's got problems if he doesn't take into consideration the potential impact he could have on others feelings. So you'd be a bigot. And you feel this is a morally superior position to be in? WowGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:50:00 -
[925] - Quote
SKINE DMZ wrote:Don't be mad at the person, he is just playing the character, be mad at the character.
The person controls the character |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:51:00 -
[926] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Anhenka wrote:Mandarine wrote:~Another moral superiority rant which Divine would be proud of~ ~decrying of people who play differently than him and demanding GM's IP ban them~ ~Comparison of gameplay to ****~ Ok, that's it, thread's twitching less than the revamp POS thread. Go home people, sort out your life, and decide if you actually want to log in again. If all you want to do is sit around proclaiming your personal superiority to others, then this is not the place for you. The game is not always happy, not always fun. You signed up knowing of the stories told of theft, sabotaging, awoxing, and grand plots, and now want the game to change because you find yourself disliking those same draws. There are MMO's with will allow you perfectly safe solo play. This is not one of them. Frankly, this thread cannot be locked fast enough. What started out as a whiny rant and appeal for pity turned into a pit of abuse and trolling, got purged of 75% of the posts, then has rapidly skyrocketed back up to a posting frequency and shitslinging pace far beyond that of previous. Help me ISD whoeverthefuckison, you're my only hope. I-¦ve been playing since 2003. I remember that around those times, attacking a naked player doing a corpse run in an Everquest PvP server was considered as a total jerk move. You probably think it-¦s an awesome one. Who talks about superiority? I-¦m simply stating that people who log with the clear purpose of emotionally harming others have no place in a videogame. Do you have feelings of inferiority because of some moral shortcomings? Jonah Gravenstein wrote: CCP disagree, ganking is considered normal gameplay, if it wasn't they'd have put a stop to it sometime in the last decade.
Money. Ganking requires alts, defending against, also. The commercial choices of CCP have no impact on the fact that many gankers and scammers plainly say that they enjoy the emotional distress they cause, more than any ingame asset or narrative. The links proving this have been posted time and time again in this thread, and statements from said gankers are all over their blogs. Marsha Mallow wrote: It's not sadism towards other people from my end, it's indifference. Pew-pew, boom, next! If you want to stop and chat inbetween about how upset that ship loss made you, go ahead, I'm here for you.
Re sex, honestly I think the person involved can usually provide helpful feedback, which can be replied to with "stop your whining and look a bit more grateful". Although the judgement of random strangers on forums is also crucial to successful real life relationships.
Autism & irony, the delicious 201x mix
Seriously though, if you suspect these kids of having autism, maybe you shouldn't be spending your time arguing with a bunch of autistic kids. How would you feel about yourself in the grand scheme if you looked back on your actions today, knowing that you were picking on the mentally handicapped?
It's why I put a couple specific ones on ignore. I realized. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1967
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:52:00 -
[927] - Quote
when someone blows me up in eve, i do not feel personal misery. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:53:00 -
[928] - Quote
Batelle wrote:when someone blows me up in eve, i do not feel personal misery.
me either |
SKINE DMZ
Stay Frosty.
325
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:54:00 -
[929] - Quote
Correct, doesn't take away the fact that he is playing a character. You are making assumptions about someones personality, someone who lies in real life might be feeling so guilty he plays the good character in EVE , maybe that guy who scammed you saves your future girlfriend next week, I mean who knows stop making such silly judgements thinking that is a bad person for his in-game actions. I disagree |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19689
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:56:00 -
[930] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Who talks about superiority? A lot of the people who keep trying to infer something about people's real-life morals from their in-game behaviourGǪ
Quote:Money. Ganking requires alts, defending against, also. No, it doesn't.
Quote:The commercial choices of CCP have no impact on the fact that many gankers and scammers plainly say that they enjoy the emotional distress they cause, more than any ingame asset or narrative. The links proving this have been posted time and time again in this thread GǪand have consistently failed to show that GÇ£manyGÇ¥ gankers and scammers say anything of the kind or that they are in any way representative or that they in any way differ from the general population of the game. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16818
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:58:00 -
[931] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Well I dunno, no one griefs me. some people might get mad at the loss of pixels. I wouldn't. You just get mad at everything else?
Quote:What would upset me if you lied to me and then stole from me, is the fact that you're a person who chooses to lie and steal. IN A GAME. If I lied and stole from you in real life then you would have a point, I wouldn't so you don't. I have a healthy disconnection between ingame and real life persona. That said I'm unlikely to steal from you in Eve either, it's not how I roll, blowing you up is another matter entirely, if you're in space, you're a target, nothing more, nothing less.
Quote:i would be like, Man that jonah gravenstein guy is the type of person who gets his enjoyment trying to upset others. That guy's got problems if he doesn't take into consideration the potential impact he could have on others feelings. I'll make sure I not trust him and I'll warn others not to trust him either. If you kept it in game that would be fine, however you insist on judging people in real life by their actions in a virtual world. You fail to see that an ingame persona is disconnected from a real life persona.
Quote:Mad over pixels? hahahaha no, you! maybe. not me though. You're certainly mad about something, your constant judgements of people over their ingame actions tell us this.
As for being mad over the loss of pixels? I've been mad about it once, for about 10 seconds before I realised that they were pixels, and thus not worth being mad about. What I didn't do was judge the person who relieved me of them as a bad person in real life, they were playing a game, just as I was. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19692
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 19:59:00 -
[932] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Griefers are actually a boon, since they use multiple accounts, generating profit, and the potential gankees also do, to defend against said ganks. Again, you know that griefing isn't allowed in EVE, right? And that neither gankers nor gank targets have any special need of multiple accounts? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:00:00 -
[933] - Quote
SKINE DMZ wrote:Correct, doesn't take away the fact that he is playing a character. You are making assumptions about someones personality, someone who lies in real life might be feeling so guilty he plays the good character in EVE , maybe that guy who scammed you saves your future girlfriend next week, I mean who knows stop making such silly judgements thinking that is a bad person for his in-game actions.
I'm stating that because the person has chosen to lie and steal from me within in the confines of the game, that knowledge coupled with the uncertainty principle surrounding whether or not he's a psychopath, being that so far the only evidence he's demonstrated to me is that he is, because he's chosen to portray one. Where does the game end with him? Does it end? Does he keep it within the realm of the game, or will he take it out of it as well? I cannot know, and the only evidence he's demonstrated so far is he's definitely willing to act on the part of a psychopath.
It's not necessarily a defacto, you blow up ship, you stab dogs. It's more of a, we'll you've proven you're capable of doing actions I disapprove of and I cannot possibly know if it ends at your computer. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1969
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:01:00 -
[934] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: I'm stating that because the person has chosen to lie and steal to me within in the confines of the game, that knowledge coupled with the uncertainty principle surrounding whether or not he's a psychopath, so far the only evidence he's demonstrated to me is that he is, because he's chosen to portray one.
If you go around wondering if everyone you meet or know might be a psychopath, then you're a looney. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1598
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:05:00 -
[935] - Quote
Eve is not about the choices other people make - stop deflecting.
Eve is about the choices you make. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:05:00 -
[936] - Quote
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.fi/2013/08/catalyst-ganking-guide.html
"To loot regularly, you need a looter pilot, who should not be on the same account as your scout. She can share the account with the ganker, third account is better. She can fly a looting cruiser. Warp to the scout, loot and warp out." |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16818
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:05:00 -
[937] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: I'm stating that because the person has chosen to lie and steal to me within in the confines of the game, that knowledge coupled with the uncertainty principle surrounding whether or not he's a psychopath, so far the only evidence he's demonstrated to me is that he is, because he's chosen to portray one.
If you go around wondering if everyone you meet or know might be a psychopath, then you're a looney.
Relevant
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2837
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:06:00 -
[938] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
I don-¦t think sandox games have to be watered-down, I think that the type of gamer who develops glee by witnessing his own self (i:e. not his character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which he has created by using a video game as a platform, has no place in an online game. Three strikes and he should be IP banned, so the sandbox can accommodate "regular" gamers who enjoy having fun with each other instead of at each other-¦s expense.
Guys, remember when I started talking about the Tyranny of the Thin Skinned? This is it in a nutshell.
You can go jump in a lake btw, Mandarine. If you want a game like that, gtfo out of EVE. EVE is my game, EVE is the game for people who actually give one ephemeral damn about player freedom, and player choice. EVE is a game where the choice *not* to defend yourself can and does have consequences.
Your nanny state, legislate-on-hurt-feelings crap belongs in a themepark MMO. Although hell, even in World of Warcrap, the GMs won't permaban someone who trips over your feelings. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:06:00 -
[939] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: I'm stating that because the person has chosen to lie and steal to me within in the confines of the game, that knowledge coupled with the uncertainty principle surrounding whether or not he's a psychopath, so far the only evidence he's demonstrated to me is that he is, because he's chosen to portray one.
If you go around wondering if everyone you meet or know might be a psychopath, then you're a looney.
I do not do that.
I only consider it if I observe the person acting in the manner that defines one. Such as, making the choice to deceive/exploit/extort/steal from someone for their own personal gain at that persons expense. Or choosing to act in a manner with no regard for the potential impact of his actions on others.
Only then do I start questioning if one might be a psychopath. And when they act like one in game, it gives me reason to believe they may also be one IRL.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19692
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:07:00 -
[940] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:I'm stating that because the person has chosen to lie and steal from me within in the confines of the game, that knowledge coupled with the uncertainty principle surrounding whether or not he's a psychopath, being that so far the only evidence he's demonstrated to me is that he is, because he's chosen to portray one. In other words, you're making a prejudiced judgment based on nothing but unfounded assumptions that rely on an inability to separate game from real life.
Quote:I cannot know, and the only evidence he's demonstrated so far is he's definitely willing to act on the part of a psychopath. GǪexcept that he hasn't demonstrated anything of the kind. He has only shown that he's willing to play a game, same as you. If you want to infer from that choice that he's more likely to be a psychopath, then [i]you[/-¦] are more likely to be a psychopath since you've made the exact same choice.
A healthy approach would be to not assume that everyone around you (especially ones who act the same as yourself) are psychopaths. The fact that you seem incapable of this approach is worrisome. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19692
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:10:00 -
[941] - Quote
You're going to reference the person who has demonstrated probably the least competence in or understanding of economics and ganking in EVE?! Allow me to
Even if he did have a clue, notice that he's not talking about griefers. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Benny Ohu
Beneath the Ashes Margin of Silence
2564
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:15:00 -
[942] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:For those wondering about why I-¦m stating that griefing is good for the business plan http://greedygoblin.blogspot.fi/2013/08/catalyst-ganking-guide.html"To loot regularly, you need a looter pilot, who should not be on the same account as your scout. She can share the account with the ganker, third account is better. She can fly a looting cruiser. Warp to the scout, loot and warp out." that's a comedy blog
the blogger doesn't know it yet, though |
SKINE DMZ
Stay Frosty.
325
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:16:00 -
[943] - Quote
I think it's more a question of where do you think the game ends for you divine, not the guy who took your spaceship stuff in a game where he could say the point is to take your spaceship stuff I disagree |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:18:00 -
[944] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mandarine wrote:http://greedygoblin.blogspot.fi/2013/08/catalyst-ganking-guide.html "To loot regularly, you need a looter pilot, who should not be on the same account as your scout. She can share the account with the ganker, third account is better. She can fly a looting cruiser. Warp to the scout, loot and warp out." Using Gevlon Goblin as a source? That's like using the Westboro Baptist Church as a source for discussion on the ethics of religion.
Why do you say this? he seems quite knowledgeable and resourceful, while also very toxic.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mandarine wrote:
I don-¦t think sandox games have to be watered-down, I think that the type of gamer who develops glee by witnessing his own self (i:e. not his character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which he has created by using a video game as a platform, has no place in an online game. Three strikes and he should be IP banned, so the sandbox can accommodate "regular" gamers who enjoy having fun with each other instead of at each other-¦s expense.
Guys, remember when I started talking about the Tyranny of the Thin Skinned? This is it in a nutshell. You can go jump in a lake btw, Mandarine. If you want a game like that, gtfo out of EVE. EVE is my game, EVE is the game for people who actually give one ephemeral damn about player freedom, and player choice. EVE is a game where the choice *not* to defend yourself can and does have consequences. Your nanny state, legislate-on-hurt-feelings crap belongs in a themepark MMO. Although hell, even in World of Warcrap, the GMs won't permaban someone who trips over your feelings.
You people think I want to change this game in a way that would suit me. Absolutely not. If I could change something however, I-¦d remove CONCORD and gate guns.
What I don-¦t want is toxic people in a gaming community, that is, people who log in with the express purpose of inflicting emotional harm on others, and who couldn-¦t care less about the ingame narratives.
Now, this is the kind of post I would report, were I a jerk looking to reap some cheap Schadenfreude. Why are you mad at me? Did I hit a nerve? |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:25:00 -
[945] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mandarine wrote:http://greedygoblin.blogspot.fi/2013/08/catalyst-ganking-guide.html "To loot regularly, you need a looter pilot, who should not be on the same account as your scout. She can share the account with the ganker, third account is better. She can fly a looting cruiser. Warp to the scout, loot and warp out." Using Gevlon Goblin as a source? That's like using the Westboro Baptist Church as a source for discussion on the ethics of religion. Why do you say this? he seems quite knowledgeable and resourceful, while also very toxic. Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mandarine wrote:
I don-¦t think sandox games have to be watered-down, I think that the type of gamer who develops glee by witnessing his own self (i:e. not his character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which he has created by using a video game as a platform, has no place in an online game. Three strikes and he should be IP banned, so the sandbox can accommodate "regular" gamers who enjoy having fun with each other instead of at each other-¦s expense.
Guys, remember when I started talking about the Tyranny of the Thin Skinned? This is it in a nutshell. You can go jump in a lake btw, Mandarine. If you want a game like that, gtfo out of EVE. EVE is my game, EVE is the game for people who actually give one ephemeral damn about player freedom, and player choice. EVE is a game where the choice *not* to defend yourself can and does have consequences. Your nanny state, legislate-on-hurt-feelings crap belongs in a themepark MMO. Although hell, even in World of Warcrap, the GMs won't permaban someone who trips over your feelings. You people think I want to change this game in a way that would suit me. Absolutely not. If I could change something however, I-¦d remove CONCORD and gate guns. What I don-¦t want is toxic people in a gaming community, that is, people who log in with the express purpose of inflicting emotional harm on others, and who couldn-¦t care less about the ingame narratives. Now, this is the kind of post I would report, were I a jerk looking to reap some cheap Schadenfreude. Why are you mad at me? Did I hit a nerve?
Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4927
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:32:00 -
[946] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:
Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.
You think after 10 years (with many original players still playing and coming back to the game, and people like me who started later but have been playing for 5, 6, 7 ect years) need you to make us aware of anything?
What you don't seem to grasp is that you're the misfit outsider, the rest of us are the norm.
You say you haven't been playing long, but if the game situation and community ticks you off so much that you post more in a couple weeks than most eve players post in a lifetime, doesn't that indicate to you that it might be you that is the problem?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2841
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:32:00 -
[947] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Mandarine wrote:
You people think I want to change this game in a way that would suit me. ?
IP banning, in your own admission, thousands of real players isn't changing the game? Spin faster. That would be akin to thinking that the rules of soccer are changed when a player gets expelled from the international federation.
No, it's akin to suggesting that if any team attempts an onside kick (American football), or anything that resembles an onside kick, that you should ban their entire team.
Pretty sure that would change football quite a bit. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2841
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:33:00 -
[948] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: You say you haven't been playing long, but if the game situation and community ticks you off so much that you post more in a couple weeks than most eve players post in a lifetime, doesn't that indicate to you that it might be you that is the problem?
If they possessed the capacity for introspective thought, they would be unable to maintain their beliefs. So of course it doesn't indicate that. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:35:00 -
[949] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.
There's a lot of people that feel this way, and they have formed several such communities. The problem is that the vast majority of people are completely ok with "the crazies," while the people that want to do what you describe are in the minority.
I believe they are only in the minority because of the perception they are the minority. the loons attack anyone who presents an ideology different than their own. Because they're hostile by nature, they swarm to an opportunity to get their jabs in so they can feel a sense of contribution to bolstering their ego and gaining the respect of their like minded comrades.
In reality though, there are more good people, they just don't care. They do care, but not enough to risk subjecting themselves to the filth these mongrels spew. To them, it's not really worth it. They know they're a good person, and unlike the psycho's, they don't feel a need to search for others reinforcement, they're already secure in themselves. So they just keep quiet, ignoring what's happening for the most part.
Will things change? Nah, they're going to stay this way essentially for the entirety of the game. The only real change that may impact this game's mental landscape is if the world's governments start stripping anonymity from basic internet access. That's not going to happen for awhile though, so this will be as it is for a long time.
The crazies are in the minority, for certain. They're just driven (because of their handicap) and willing to dedicate alot of effort to their agendas. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19694
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:35:00 -
[950] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Why do you say this? he seems quite knowledgeable and resourceful, while also very toxic. Largely because he has a history of being completely unable to look at anything in any terms other than ISK, and being very unimaginative even in matters where ISK is meaningful GÇö a perspective he tries to peddle as deeply knowledgeable and clever even as anyone with a clue quickly spots that it's a load of tripe.
For that particular article, there are also some curious details where his information is just plain old outdated and incorrect. It is a bunch of received wisdom filtered through a very narrow conception of what is relevant.
Quote:What I don-¦t want is toxic people in a gaming community, that is, people who log in with the express purpose of inflicting emotional harm on others, and who couldn-¦t care less about the ingame narratives. Well, good news: doing so is already a bannable offence and has been so since roughly forever. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Erica Dusette
Sky Fighters
3167
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:36:00 -
[951] - Quote
Relevant. Major (Ret.) Caldary Naval Militia | Morale Officer (Pinup model) Just an innocent explorer!-á pâä | -áWormhole Sisters of EVE Herrbert: "womwomwowmwoaugharwajwowoooommm"
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1021
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:37:00 -
[952] - Quote
This is basically the "people who shoot pixel guns become mass murderers" argument. The counter-argument is "give blood, play rugby:" People routinely agree to pound the crap out of each other under controlled circumstances, then shake hands and go out for a beer afterward. And yeah, there are lots of fouls committed in those games, too.
EVE is not only an example of those controlled circumstances, but as an added bonus, even if someone blows up your 20 billion ISK Navy Raven, you still have all of your teeth! And if you're a good sport about losing your ship, as hockey and rugby and MMA players are about losing their matches, you might find your hand shaken and if you go to a player meet, someone might buy you a beer.
The assumption that people who blow your ship up are sociopaths seems to me like a way to assure yourself that, even though you just lost, you're still way better than that other guy. You aren't.
More on topic, I don't think the forum necessarily reflects the player base. I've found EVE players to be mostly friendly and high-spirited, no matter what they're doing. The forums are more testy and perhaps suffer from a certain amount of received wisdom, but some of that is due to the same topics coming up again, and again, and again, and again. As a former administrator of a (much smaller) forum back in the day, I understand. The forums could be nicer. This thread is (clearly!) not a step in that direction. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
55
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:37:00 -
[953] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time. Which is exactly what existing players would encourage. So we can kill you in batches, rather than one at a time.
No worries! I'll judge your actions upon personal observation. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4929
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:37:00 -
[954] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.
There's a lot of people that feel this way, and they have formed several such communities. The problem is that the vast majority of people are completely ok with "the crazies," while the people that want to do what you describe are in the minority.
Exactly.
People like me, who accept the game and it's community as is, who marvel and the creativeness of the so called "bad people" and who pvp in the game by becoming adept at not dying to them lol.
I once offered an analogy that EVE is like a Plain in Africa with lions and gazelles. The Lions of course are trying to eat the gazelles. The good Gazzelles are running around eating whatever damn grass they please, jumping over the lions, tickling them while they sleep and having a merry old time.
The bad gazelles are cowering in a cave somewhere writing Strongly Worded Letters to the U.N. asking for them to send peacekeepers to nerf (IP ban) the Lions. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1601
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:39:00 -
[955] - Quote
Eve is not about the choices other people make - stop deflecting.
Eve is about the choices you make. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4929
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:40:00 -
[956] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote: even if someone blows up your 20 billion ISK Navy Raven, you still have all of your teeth! And if you're a good sport about losing your ship,
I'll bet good money right now someone lost a 20 bil isk raven, banged his head into a keyboard and lost of tooth. It has to have happened at least once! |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:41:00 -
[957] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Gevlon has his head stuck so far up his own backside that when he talks his sphincter moves. He's of the opinion that he is considerably better than everyone, at everything, despite evidence to the contrary.
He's so bad that TEST kicked him, and the New Order disowned him.
Yet you suggest that CCP clamp down on the "griefers" and gankers so that they attract millions of players, removal of Concord would achieve the exact opposite.
Those "toxic people" are what drives the game narratives, get rid of them and you're left with a really ****** PvE game.
I don't see him being mad, I see him calling it as he see's it. All evidence points to the fact that you'd like to see Eve become a copy of all the other MMO's out there, pretty shite (IMHO)
Gevlon seems to have a high opinion of himself, yes, but is he a bad player? when people gang up on someone successful and say he-¦s a zero, it-¦s usually because of jealousy.
No need for CONCORD nor gate guns in a game in which players are, well, gamers who seek ingame narratives, rather than Schadenfreude. That would require a plethora of GMs tho, to process the inevitable griefing complaints, But with IP permaban, you-¦d quickly see a stable environment, the griefing/ganking type is not as numerous as they would have people believe.
Toxic people only drive their own RL narrative, which drives the ingame one indirectly. There is no need for them, standard fun-loving gamers are totally capable of huge battles and backstabbing, only, without being jerks about it.
If you think the ganker type is what makes EvE enjoyable, you definitely fall into the masochist category (which is the mirror of the sadist one, in the unconscious business plan). |
Divine Entervention
The Lonetrek Militia Rapidus Incitus Pactum
55
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:44:00 -
[958] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:This is basically the "people who shoot pixel guns become mass murderers" argument. The counter-argument is "give blood, play rugby:" People routinely agree to pound the crap out of each other under controlled circumstances, then shake hands and go out for a beer afterward. And yeah, there are lots of fouls committed in those games, too.
EVE is not only an example of those controlled circumstances, but as an added bonus, even if someone blows up your 20 billion ISK Navy Raven, you still have all of your teeth! And if you're a good sport about losing your ship, as hockey and rugby and MMA players are about losing their matches, you might find your hand shaken and if you go to a player meet, someone might buy you a beer.
The assumption that people who blow your ship up are sociopaths seems to me like a way to assure yourself that, even though you just lost, you're still way better than that other guy. You aren't.
More on topic, I don't think the forum necessarily reflects the player base. I've found EVE players to be mostly friendly and high-spirited, no matter what they're doing. The forums are more testy and perhaps suffer from a certain amount of received wisdom, but some of that is due to the same topics coming up again, and again, and again, and again. As a former administrator of a (much smaller) forum back in the day, I understand. The forums could be nicer. This thread is (clearly!) not a step in that direction.
You state that I am not allowed to use an absolute in my argument because people who hurt others in games aren't necessarily mass murders. Though I'm not using an absolute, my argument is based on the uncertainty principle and observed evidence.
Then you say that people who get their ships blown up by people are not better off than the other guy. You state an absolute. The person who lose his ship is not better. That is not true, you cannot possibly know that. You can come to a conclusion based on your observed evidence.
But that means I can too. |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:44:00 -
[959] - Quote
Mandarine wrote: Gevlon seems to have a high opinion of himself, yes, but is he a bad player? when people gang up on someone successful and say he-¦s a zero, it-¦s usually because of jealousy.
Gevlon planned to create a corp where corp chat would not be allowed, as it would interfere with making ISK. That should be enough to tell you what kind of person he is. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2841
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:45:00 -
[960] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
Toxic people only drive their own RL narrative, which drives the ingame one indirectly. There is no need for them, standard fun-loving gamers are totally capable of huge battles and backstabbing, only, without being jerks about it.
This is the funniest part. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19697
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:53:00 -
[961] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Gevlon seems to have a high opinion of himself, yes, but is he a bad player? Yes. He has been moderately successful making money in EVE (and other MMOs) through the most slow and cumbersome method available, using sheer persistence and grinding. Had he been actually good at it, he would have been properly wealthy (or would have had to spend a whole lot less time getting to where he is).
Quote:That would require a plethora of GMs tho, to process the inevitable griefing complaints, But with IP permaban, you-¦d quickly see a stable environment, the griefing/ganking type is not as numerous as they would have people believe. This is already how the game is being handled, which is why the griefing type is not nearly as numerous as the whiners would have people believe.
Divine Entervention wrote:You state that I am not allowed to use an absolute in my argument because people who hurt others in games aren't necessarily mass murders. Though I'm not using an absolute, my argument is based on the uncertainty principle and observed evidence. Both of which are stuff you've made up and which have no real basis in reality; both of which are just expressions of the same prejudices.
Quote:Then you say that people who get their ships blown up by people are not better off than the other guy. You state an absolute. No, he states a negation of an absolute. You just choose to interpret it as an absolute because it seems to be the the standard way for you to operate: using only arbitrary binary opposites and false dichotomies. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1079
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:55:00 -
[962] - Quote
So Tippa, do you think that there are people fitting the criteria of sociopaths on the Internet or not?
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4932
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 20:56:00 -
[963] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:So Tippa, do you think that there are people fitting the criteria of sociopaths on the Internet or not?
INB4Tippia : Sociopaths don't exist anywhere. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19698
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:01:00 -
[964] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:So Tippa, do you think that there are people fitting the criteria of sociopaths on the Internet or not? INB4Tippia : Sociopaths don't exist anywhere. Damn you! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:01:00 -
[965] - Quote
Honestly I can't believe how big this thread grew while I was at work lol Don't you people have jobs?
|
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
76
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:03:00 -
[966] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: You state that I am not allowed to use an absolute in my argument because people who hurt others in games aren't necessarily mass murders. Though I'm not using an absolute, my argument is based on the uncertainty principle and observed evidence.
Your observed evidence would require observation of the actual physical subject. You have only observed the subjects in game, not out of it.
You have no more evidence to support your theory than I have evidence to support the following theories:
Divine Entervention is actually the God Quetzalcoatl & demands human sacrifice. Tippia is the spawn of the God of Cynicism & Patience Dinsdale is actually the Mittani. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16822
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:04:00 -
[967] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:
Gevlon seems to have a high opinion of himself, yes, but is he a bad player? when people gang up on someone successful and say he-¦s a zero, it-¦s usually because of jealousy.
Or because he's genuinely irrelevant or terrible at Eve. He measures success in ISK, most of us measure it in fun.
Quote:No need for CONCORD nor gate guns in a game in which players are, well, gamers who seek ingame narratives, rather than Schadenfreude. That would require a plethora of GMs tho, to process the inevitable griefing complaints, But with IP permaban, you-¦d quickly see a stable environment, the griefing/ganking type is not as numerous as they would have people believe.
Toxic people only drive their own RL narrative, which drives the ingame one indirectly. There is no need for them, standard fun-loving gamers are totally capable of huge battles and backstabbing, only, without being jerks about it. The only jerks are the ones that give out vitriol and hatred when they die. Wishing death and disease upon another player and their family because of some imaginary space pixels definitely falls into the category of being a jerk.
Quote:If you think the ganker type is what makes EvE enjoyable, you definitely fall into the masochist category (which is the mirror of the sadist one, in the unconscious business plan). Gankers are what turns Eve into Eve, one of the main reasons I play is to not get ganked, by outwitting or outplaying the gankers. Without the possibility of being ganked at any time my carebear playing style would be boring, and I wouldn't have played Eve for as long as I have.
Victoria Thorne wrote:Dinsdale is actually the Mittani. LOL, this is actually plausible given Mittens love of the metagame. You heard it here folks, Dinsdale is Mittens troll alt. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1021
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:04:00 -
[968] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:You state that I am not allowed to use an absolute in my argument because people who hurt others in games aren't necessarily mass murders. Though I'm not using an absolute, my argument is based on the uncertainty principle and observed evidence.
Then you say that people who get their ships blown up by people are not better off than the other guy. You state an absolute. The person who lose his ship is not better. That is not true, you cannot possibly know that. You can come to a believed conclusion based on your observed evidence, but it's not necessarily true.
You're very fond of absolutes.
What I am actually trying to tell you is that you're making the very deliberate and empirically self-serving decision to judge people in their entirety based on an incredibly narrow criterion in a very specific context, as if tuning in to a boxing match and seeing a white guy land a blow on a black guy was enough to conclude that you'd just witnessed a hate crime, and the white guy must be a supremacist. In contrast, I tune into a boxing match and I see two guys boxing, and one of them just landed a punch. I assume that they're basically ordinary people, because that's not only a safe but a good-spirited assumption to make.
You say you can do what I do, but then you go and do something much bolder than anything I would ever do: you draw existential conclusions about other people based on flimsy evidence. What I do is assume that the other guy is basically like me, and if he just got one up on me, gratz to him for playing the game well--I hardly know him, so any other conclusion comes down to the assumptions I make about other people in the absence of a compelling body of evidence. It would take a great deal more evidence than one ship kill (in a PVP game!) to convince me that somebody wasn't quite right.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying this as a ganker, or even a successful PVPer: between my various characters, there's enough red on my killboard to paint three towns. If I wanted to be mad about this, I would certainly have cause, but I play the game to have fun. EVE is a lot more fun, and you meet a lot more cool people, if you're a good sport. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16838
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:05:00 -
[969] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Honestly I can't believe how big this thread grew while I was at work lol Don't you people have jobs? Yes and posting from work can be a pain, so I try not to divulge in it. But I do like a good laugh and often find myself wanting to add text of my own.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Tesco Ergo Sum
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:06:00 -
[970] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Honestly I can't believe how big this thread grew while I was at work lol Don't you people have jobs?
This is their job
40 pages guys, come on you can do it!
In before the next ISD cleanup... |
|
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
76
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:06:00 -
[971] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Honestly I can't believe how big this thread grew while I was at work lol Don't you people have jobs?
On vacation at the moment, so I actually have a bit of time to spare. (I don't normally post.) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19700
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:07:00 -
[972] - Quote
Victoria Thorne wrote:You have no more evidence to support your theory than I have evidence to support the following theories:
Divine Entervention is actually the God Quetzalcoatl & demands human sacrifice. Tippia is the spawn of the God of Cynicism & Patience Dinsdale is actually the Mittani. Tbh, I think you have more evidence for your hypotheses than he does for hisGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:07:00 -
[973] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:So Tippa, do you think that there are people fitting the criteria of sociopaths on the Internet or not?
I'll just quote this again here so Tippa can't dodge it.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19700
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:12:00 -
[974] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:So Tippa, do you think that there are people fitting the criteria of sociopaths on the Internet or not? I'll just quote this again here so Tippa can't dodge it. So you didn't spot that it was already answered? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16838
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:13:00 -
[975] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: I'll just quote this again here so Tippa can't dodge it.
So you didn't spot that it was already answered? Wondered that myself tbh.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:15:00 -
[976] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:So Tippa, do you think that there are people fitting the criteria of sociopaths on the Internet or not? I'll just quote this again here so Tippa can't dodge it. So you didn't spot that it was already answered?
Debating with you necessitates as much clarity as possible in order to better prevent your weaseling out of tight spaces. Am I to presume that you believe that there is no such type of person?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2845
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:18:00 -
[977] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote: I'll just quote this again here so Tippa can't dodge it.
So you didn't spot that it was already answered? Wondered that myself tbh.
One of my first jobs was a test proctor. That's the guy who administers the test and watches you to make sure you don't cheat. It's fairly lucrative considering just how many people take the SATS, ACTS, and GED every year, and you have to have a license to give that test.
The reason I mention this is that while working in that job, I discovered that the assumption of functional literacy is quite often wrong. Yes, I am sure he can read. I am not sure he actually knows how. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19701
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:20:00 -
[978] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Debating with you necessitates as much clarity as possible in order to better prevent your weaseling out of tight spaces. Am I to presume that you believe that there is no such type of person? *sigh*
Sociopathy in the sense that it is being (mis)used around here does indeed not exist. What people mean is actually ASPD. Actual sociopathy is a largely outdated term that, at most, describes a specific expression of or cause for psychopathy (but there is no general agreement between the two and so it's not particularly accurate to ascrime any kind of GÇ£trueGÇ¥ meaning to the term). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1021
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:20:00 -
[979] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:Dinsdale is actually the Mittani. LOL, this is actually plausible given Mittens love of the metagame. You heard it here folks, Dinsdale is Mittens troll alt.
Actually, I haven't heard that here first, because other people have considered the possibility as well. It would be a truly epic troll. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:20:00 -
[980] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald, your post is remarkably ironic considering that you have not read the post directly above your own.
|
|
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
3905
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:22:00 -
[981] - Quote
1,000 pages of negativity before 2015 guys. C'mon we can do it! See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:23:00 -
[982] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The only jerks are the ones that give out vitriol and hatred when they die. Wishing death and disease upon another player and their family because of some imaginary space pixels definitely falls into the category of being a jerk.
Gankers are what turns Eve into Eve, one of the main reasons I play is to not get ganked, by outwitting or outplaying the gankers. Without the possibility of being ganked at any time my carebear playing style would be boring, and I wouldn't have played Eve for as long as I have.
Well, when the gankers-¦ express purpose is to harvest hate mail, and they setup their ganks and follow-up chat to optimize this harvesting, I-¦d say they get what they want. I-¦d also say this is not pursuit of an ingame narrative, and has no place in a video game.
Maybe you-¦re part of a minority that enjoys being prey and evading, but I-¦m quite certain the majority of gamers would rather have an environment in which exciting battles (not escapes), fitting an ingame narrative, are common. For now, this happens sometimes in 0.0, but requires being a drone. Lowsec is gank everywhere plus hotdrops, and highsec is grief and scam.
I find it disturbing that for most of you posters in this thread, EvE-¦s appeal is its RL-based unbridled online sociopathy. I don-¦t see a RPer defending gankers/griefers, for example. Why is that so?
Some magic circle positioning stuff again? |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:24:00 -
[983] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Debating with you necessitates as much clarity as possible in order to better prevent your weaseling out of tight spaces. Am I to presume that you believe that there is no such type of person? *sigh* Sociopathy in the sense that it is being (mis)used around here does indeed not exist. What people mean is actually ASPD. Actual sociopathy is a largely outdated term that, at most, describes a specific expression of or cause for psychopathy (but there is no general agreement between the two and so it's not particularly accurate to ascrime any kind of GÇ£trueGÇ¥ meaning to the term).
Whether you call it sociopathy, psychopathy, personality disorder, antisocial behavior or a diminished sense of empathy or remorse is irrelevant. Everyone here will know what you are talking about because they apply such definitions to the rather outdated term "sociopathy".
So I ask again, do you believe that such people (as listed above) exist or do you believe that they do not?
|
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
76
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:28:00 -
[984] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Victoria Thorne wrote:Dinsdale is actually the Mittani. LOL, this is actually plausible given Mittens love of the metagame. You heard it here folks, Dinsdale is Mittens troll alt.
Considering Dinsdale is named after a Monty Python character who was told what to do by a giant hedgehog named Spiny Norman...
And he is renown on the forums for his paranoia about the Goons... I can't help but giggle whenever I've seen a post by him. (Also, happens to be one of my favorite Monty Python skits...)
Edit: Although I did see a really interesting idea of Dinsdale's somewhere on the form about unscannable Nebula areas... It was interesting enough I didn't giggle, and was rather well thought out. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:29:00 -
[985] - Quote
Irony is irony, it does not have to be intentional.
Still waiting for Tippa...
|
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16839
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:32:00 -
[986] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Still waiting for Tippa... Is there some reason for consistently misspelling the players name?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19702
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:33:00 -
[987] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Still waiting for Tippa... Is there some reason for consistently misspelling the players name? Probably the same as for consistently asking for things after they've been given. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2846
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:33:00 -
[988] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Kaarous Aldurald, your post is remarkably ironic considering that you have not read the post directly above your own.
It read it, it was merely discarded as obfuscation. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:35:00 -
[989] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mag's wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Still waiting for Tippa... Is there some reason for consistently misspelling the players name? Probably the same as for consistently asking for things after they've been given.
I see that you do not want to answer this question.
You did not answer it, you did a little hat dance around the definition of sociopath and then commenced to make gramakal correktions.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2846
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:35:00 -
[990] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mag's wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Still waiting for Tippa... Is there some reason for consistently misspelling the players name? Probably the same as for consistently asking for things after they've been given.
Functional (although I have long believed that the better word is practical) illiteracy? Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:36:00 -
[991] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Kaarous Aldurald, your post is remarkably ironic considering that you have not read the post directly above your own. It read it, it was merely discarded as obfuscation.
So he did read it after all did he?
Well, well...point made then.
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1604
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:41:00 -
[992] - Quote
Guys please stop.
This is how all that goo got under Manhattan in Ghostbusters II.
Let's all stop and sing a happy song to make the goo go away. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19706
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:42:00 -
[993] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I see that you do not want to answer this question.
You did not answer it, you did a little hat dance around the definition of sociopath and then commenced to make gramakal correktions. Not only did I answer it, I also skipped right past checking for (much less correcting) any grammatical errors you might have made.
Or were you expecting absolute numbers? If so, you shouldn't have phrased it as a yes/no question. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19706
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:43:00 -
[994] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Guys please stop.
This is how all that goo got under Manhattan in Ghostbusters II. Manhattan is 6,500km away. I'm game for some goo. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16841
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:43:00 -
[995] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Guys please stop.
This is how all that goo got under Manhattan in Ghostbusters II.
Let's all stop and sing a happy song to make the goo go away. I always though they should have simply coloured that stuff brown, then it would have matched exactly what the film was.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1604
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:45:00 -
[996] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Manhattan is 6,500km away. I'm game for some goo.
I think my Cruise Missiles can go that far...
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:45:00 -
[997] - Quote
I'm sorry, I did miss it in your cluster of wall-of-text pyramid postings. I'll have to check better for the name "Eternum" next time.
Quote:With a population as massive as EVE's, it would be downright strange if there weren't.
Now that we have established that you do think that such individuals play eve, would we expect their interactions in game to reflect such nature or should we expect their behavior to be more or less benign?
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1022
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:45:00 -
[998] - Quote
Mandarine wrote:Well, when the gankers-¦ express purpose is to harvest hate mail, and they setup their ganks and follow-up chat to optimize this harvesting, I-¦d say they get what they want. I-¦d also say this is not pursuit of an ingame narrative, and has no place in a video game.
The vast majority of the time, there is no hate mail. Most people either drop a 'gf' in Local and leave, or just leave silently. "Tears" is a way of distancing oneself from the violent and dehumanizing invective that a small minority of people hurl when they are both enraged and feeling helpless. It's not hard to find posts in various places where the same people are gobsmacked and delighted when the person they kill "gets it," and engages with them positively--and yes, "you got me this time, but fly with your eyes open, because I'm coming for you" is positive in a PVP game.
There are more than a few people who gank as a way of earning income from loot drops. Lots of freighters get ganked because nullsec alliances use out-of-alliance logistics in high sec, and so there are lots of proxy wars between plausibly deniable alts to disrupt what are believed to be enemy logistics.
Mandarine wrote:Maybe you-¦re part of a minority that enjoys being prey and evading, but I-¦m quite certain the majority of gamers would rather have an environment in which exciting battles (not escapes), fitting an ingame narrative, are common.
The vast majority of MMO subscriptions are indeed for World of Warcraft, although I doubt that their PVP servers worry much about "fitting an in-game narrative." In fact, they're much harsher on low-skilled players than EVE is.
Why does every game have to cater to the majority?
Mandarine wrote:Lowsec is gank everywhere plus hotdrops.
And yet people go there, and people do industry there, and people explore there. Some of the coolest, funniest guys I've run into in EVE were lowsec dwellers... and yes, sometimes I've run into them while frantically warping my pod away after losing yet another ship--but that's not because they're terrible people, it's because I'm terrible at PVP. But it's fun for me to throw a cruiser together knowing full well that it won't survive an hour (the last one made it, I think, about 10 minutes), fleet up with a friend or three, and Leroy in just to see what happens.
[quote=Mandarine]I find it disturbing that for most of you posters in this thread, EvE-¦s appeal is its RL-based unbridled online sociopathy. I don-¦t see a RPer defending gankers/griefers, for example. Why is that so?[/quote[
Nobody is defending griefers. Griefing is against the EULA, and on the occasions when it actually happens, it points to someone who is due for a nice long vacation from the game.
I've been roleplaying pretty consistently in multiple settings since 1980, if that matters to you at all. The lore surrounding capsuleers matches observed behavior pretty well, I'd say. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1974
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:52:00 -
[999] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Batelle wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.
There's a lot of people that feel this way, and they have formed several such communities. The problem is that the vast majority of people are completely ok with "the crazies," while the people that want to do what you describe are in the minority. I believe they are only in the minority because of the perception they are the minority. the loons attack anyone who presents an ideology different than their own. Because they're hostile by nature, they swarm to an opportunity to get their jabs in so they can feel a sense of contribution to bolstering their ego and gaining the respect of their like minded comrades.
Well, mr i've-been-here-for-a-month-and-know-everything, you would be wrong. The majority of us that do not scam/steal/grief specifically approve of "the crazies" being able to do what they want, and don't consider them to a problem, or consider them to be psychopaths. The "crazies" are a minority, and the virulent anti-pirate ban-all-griefers people are also a minority. You're in the second group. And having met plenty of them myself, I gotta say its this second group that is the most poorly adjusted and unstable. You think only ebil greifers post on the forums? They do not. The fact you think everyone here is just trolling you or are psychopaths should tell you something. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1606
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:52:00 -
[1000] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian/Mandarine wrote:I'm sorry, I did miss it in your cluster of wall-of-text pyramid postings. I'll have to check better for the name "Eternum" next time. Quote:With a population as massive as EVE's, it would be downright strange if there weren't. Now that we have established that you do think that such individuals play eve, would we expect their interactions in game to reflect such nature or should we expect their behavior to be more or less benign?
We should expect that they play Eve. That their nature is that they play Eve.
As to whether their behavior is more or less benign? Depends, is the behavior of people who play Eve more or less benign?
The only thing any of us can know about any of the people that play Eve (aside from people we actually know outside of Eve) is that they play Eve.
Any other judgement outside of that is unsubstantiated speculation.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:55:00 -
[1001] - Quote
Tippa, care to confirm on your main what your potential alt just stated?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19706
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:56:00 -
[1002] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Now that we have established that you do think that such individuals play eve, would we expect their interactions in game to reflect such nature or should we expect their behavior to be more or less benign? I would expect it to be lost in the general noise of game activity to the point where it would be pretty much undetectable. But then, that's not a big shocker since they have a nasty tendency to be hard to detect IRL as well.
I also expect it not to split along the lines of GÇ£benignGÇ¥/GÇ£malignGÇ¥ GÇö it implies motivations and a moral absolutism that has little to do with the pathologies themselves. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
108384
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 21:57:00 -
[1003] - Quote
The last time I had a Mackinaw popped (geez, it's been 2 1/2 years) I didn't really care. I had more than enough ISK to replace it.
What I didn't like was the accompanying Mail I received, which I cannot repost here, as every one of it's 10 sentences about what a stupid f'ing lame a** I was is Forum bannable. And I wasn't even AFK. It was just a losing situation.
Admirable techniques were used most indeed, but that mail was unnecessary.
CCP thought so too apparently.
We "didn't see" it's composer around for quite awhile starting the next day.
The ganking was fine. The 8 year old toilet mentality of the Mail was not though. At all. I mean, especially with my "lifestyle" and not really shocked and offended by anything, but I was nervous even submitting the mail as complaint, as I was sure CCP would think I faked it it was so unbelievable.
There just is not any call for that crap. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:00:00 -
[1004] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Now that we have established that you do think that such individuals play eve, would we expect their interactions in game to reflect such nature or should we expect their behavior to be more or less benign? I would expect it to be lost in the general noise of game activity to the point where it would be pretty much undetectable. But then, that's not a big shocker since they have a nasty tendency to be hard to detect IRL as well. I also expect it not to split along the lines of GÇ£benignGÇ¥/GÇ£malignGÇ¥ GÇö it implies motivations and a moral absolutism that have little to do with the pathologies themselves.
Does this mean that you feel that said individuals would not have a tendency to be drawn to certain game activities over others?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
2853
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:01:00 -
[1005] - Quote
See, that's why my "you lost" mails are the epitome of decorum.
I have started calling them "surprise hull integrity inspections". Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16843
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:03:00 -
[1006] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Does this mean that you feel that said individuals would not have a tendency to be drawn to certain game activities over others?
You mean in a way that could see murderers drawn to playing chess?
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Marsha Mallow
106
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:03:00 -
[1007] - Quote
Last lowsec kill I had was an Orca (which jumped in unscouted). The guy mailed us all threatening "You're f#cked now! You don't know who you are dealing with!" etc etc. So I podded him. Few months later I noticed someone in NPC chat mentioned the same guy hysterically mailing people who killed him. Bless. - |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:05:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Does this mean that you feel that said individuals would not have a tendency to be drawn to certain game activities over others?
You mean in a way that could see murderers drawn to playing chess?
No. I don't mean that.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19707
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:05:00 -
[1009] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Does this mean that you feel that said individuals would not have a tenancy to be drawn to certain game activities over others? Nah.
Maybe if we're talking about some very broad categorisations such as having a slightly higher tendency towards solo play or towards corp play, depending on which specific disorder we're talking about, but that's about it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mag's
the united SCUM.
16843
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:09:00 -
[1010] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Mag's wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Does this mean that you feel that said individuals would not have a tendency to be drawn to certain game activities over others? You mean in a way that could see murderers drawn to playing chess? No. I don't mean that. Why would I? I wanted to understand the angle you were trying to apply. The motivation behind the questions. You seem to be leading with them.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:09:00 -
[1011] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Does this mean that you feel that said individuals would not have a tenancy to be drawn to certain game activities over others? Nah. Maybe if we're talking about some very broad categorisations such as having a slightly higher tendency towards solo play or towards corp play, depending on which specific disorder we're talking about, but that's about it.
And how about a sadist? Might they be drawn to certain activities over others?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19708
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:11:00 -
[1012] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:And how about a sadist? Might they be drawn to certain activities over others? A sadist would probably seek out something less ephemeral and more reliable than EVE. So in that sense, yes. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:13:00 -
[1013] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:And how about a sadist? Might they be drawn to certain activities over others? A sadist would probably seek out something less ephemeral and more reliable than EVE. So in that sense, yes.
We are talking about playing eve. Is it yes for a Sadist playing EVE?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19710
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:20:00 -
[1014] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:We are talking about playing eve. Is it yes for a Sadist playing EVE? Then we're back to meaninglessly broad categorisations.
Actually, going by the survey posted earlier, they probably would trend towards one activity: forum trolling. Whether you want to consider that a part of playing EVE or not is up to you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
1977
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:22:00 -
[1015] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
The ganking was fine. The 8 year old toilet mentality of the Mail was not though. At all. I mean, especially with my "lifestyle" and not really shocked and offended by anything, but I was nervous even submitting the mail as complaint, as I was sure CCP would think I faked it it was so unbelievable.
There just is not any call for that crap.
It sounds like it was handled appropriately, but I also gotta the guy probably got banned for profanity rather than attempting to taunt you. Is the problem here that he was crude and profane or is the problem that he was being mean-spirited? "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1610
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:23:00 -
[1016] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:We are talking about playing eve. Is it yes for a Sadist playing EVE? Then we're back to meaninglessly broad categorisations.
And unsubstantiated speculation.
Eve is not about the choices someone else makes. Eve is about the choice you make.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:24:00 -
[1017] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:We are talking about playing eve. Is it yes for a Sadist playing EVE? Then we're back to meaninglessly broad categorisations.
No we are not, it is a simple question. Do you feel that a sadist playing eve would be drawn to certain types of activities in EVE over others? Or do you feel that their tendencies/desires/whatever would not sway their career choices in this digital environment?
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1613
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:27:00 -
[1018] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian/Mandarine wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:We are talking about playing eve. Is it yes for a Sadist playing EVE? Then we're back to meaninglessly broad categorisations. No we are not, it is a simple question. Do you feel that a sadist playing eve would be drawn to certain types of activities in EVE over others? Or do you feel that their tenancies/desires/whatever would not compel them in this digital environment?
You asking someone to make an unsubstantiated speculation about what a sadist who played Eve would do with their time?
Some of us don't fill threads with unsubstantiated speculation.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Marsha Mallow
108
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:28:00 -
[1019] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:We are talking about playing eve. Is it yes for a sadist playing EVE? I mean, I have known at least a couple of self proclaimed sadists on vent in eve so I know that they are there. What about those who sign up to a hardcore PVP game then demand to be left all alone in peace so that they can make enough ISK to sit in a titan (because this is the only point they will have a level playing field), which they will only use for honourable consensual space combat against... smaller ships. Or maybe they are planning on mining in it, who knows. Masochists? Delusional? Don't forget hilarious tantruming and name calling when someone has the cheek to shoot at their ship. Juvenile? Lacking in humour? Willfully obtuse? Poor losers? Screechy?? Please diagnose.
You do know pirates and gankers can also be cuddly little industrialists, helpful to rookies and genuinely nice people. Right? - |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19710
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 -
[1020] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:No we are not, it is a simple question. Yes we are, because the only way I'd even begin to guess at where they'd congregate would be by speaking in negatives: Gǣnot missionsGǥ, Gǣnot beltrattingGǥ, Gǣpossibly not miningGǥ (although based on some of the things I've seen miners say, I have to wonderGǪ).
That leaves the category GÇ£everything elseGÇ¥ which isn't enough to say anything worth-while. The aforementioned forum trolling being a possible exception, if the survey is to be believed.
Quote:Or do you feel that their tenancies/desires/whatever would not compel them in this digital environment? I feel that if their desires and compulsions were strong enough to make a significant impact, they'd go for something more concrete than an MMO. But really, you'd have to find a bunch and ask them. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 -
[1021] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Eternum Praetorian/Mandarine wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:We are talking about playing eve. Is it yes for a Sadist playing EVE? Then we're back to meaninglessly broad categorisations. No we are not, it is a simple question. Do you feel that a sadist playing eve would be drawn to certain types of activities in EVE over others? Or do you feel that their tenancies/desires/whatever would not compel them in this digital environment? You asking someone to make an unsubstantiated speculation about what a sadist who played Eve would do with their time? Some of us don't fill threads with unsubstantiated speculation.
Potential Tippa alt #1, i am asking someone who has a long history of having an opinion on everything under the sun what their opinion is regarding this question. I have one and Tippa has one. I am asking him for his opinion.
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1613
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:31:00 -
[1022] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Eternum Praetorian/Mandarine wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:We are talking about playing eve. Is it yes for a Sadist playing EVE? Then we're back to meaninglessly broad categorisations. No we are not, it is a simple question. Do you feel that a sadist playing eve would be drawn to certain types of activities in EVE over others? Or do you feel that their tenancies/desires/whatever would not compel them in this digital environment? You asking someone to make an unsubstantiated speculation about what a sadist who played Eve would do with their time? Some of us don't fill threads with unsubstantiated speculation. Potential Tippa alt #1, i am asking someone who has a long history of having an opinion on everything under the sun what their opinion is regarding this question. I have one and Tippa has one. I am asking him for his opinion.
If you want to have a conversation with Tippia take it to EveMail. If you post your inane crap in a public forum you should expect others to respond.
Or, as a result of your entitled lifestyle, are you insistent that we all play "Forums" your way? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:36:00 -
[1023] - Quote
Tippia wrote: I feel that if their desires and compulsions were strong enough to make a significant impact, they'd go for something more concrete than an MMO. But really, you'd have to find a bunch and ask them.
So allow me to paraphrase your skillful dodging of the question. You seem to hold the opinion that if a sadist had a strong enough of a compulsion defining them as a sadist they would forgo eve all together. Thus they will have little to no interest in EVE?
Thus we should not expect to see them in game?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19710
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:39:00 -
[1024] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:So allow me to paraphrase your skillful dodging of the question. You seem to hold the opinion that if a sadist had a strong enough of a compulsion defining them as a sadist they would forgo eve all together. Thus they will have little to no interest in EVE?
Thus we should not expect to see them in game? Not to any degree where they'd be noticeable, no. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1613
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:40:00 -
[1025] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote: I feel that if their desires and compulsions were strong enough to make a significant impact, they'd go for something more concrete than an MMO. But really, you'd have to find a bunch and ask them.
So allow me to paraphrase your skillful dodging of the question. You seem to hold the opinion that if a sadist had a strong enough of a compulsion defining them as a sadist they would forgo eve all together. Thus they will have little to no interest in EVE? Thus we should not expect to see them in game?
More speculation!
You might check with CCP if they have login stats for all the diagnosed sadists. They have lots of info like this though I don't know seriously if it gets that specific.
Hey Mandarine/Eternum, how many American Labor Union Workers do you expect to play Eve? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:43:00 -
[1026] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:So allow me to paraphrase your skillful dodging of the question. You seem to hold the opinion that if a sadist had a strong enough of a compulsion defining them as a sadist they would forgo eve all together. Thus they will have little to no interest in EVE?
Thus we should not expect to see them in game? Not to any degree where they'd be noticeable, no.
What about "part-time" sadists? People that have a lesser compulsion or inability to enact their desires in their real life? Is it possible they might play eve? In your opinion that is.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19710
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:46:00 -
[1027] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:What about "part-time" sadists? Do they even exist? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:46:00 -
[1028] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:I mean, especially with my "lifestyle" and not really shocked and offended by anything Why then did you report it, if it did not shock or offend you? |
Marsha Mallow
109
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:46:00 -
[1029] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:What about "part-time" sadists? People that have a lesser compulsion or inability to enact their desires in their real life? Is it possible they might play eve? In your opinion that is. What about part time cross-dressers? There are probably men who play Eve whilst dressed as women based upon my observance of their extremely slutty looking female avatars and some of the remarks they make on comms. Not sure it draws them to any particular gamestyle though, they seem to be everywhere. You're just as likely to find a sadist 1isking their orders in Jita thousands of times a day or mining as anywhere else. Maybe they mine those roids sadistically. - |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1613
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:47:00 -
[1030] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:So allow me to paraphrase your skillful dodging of the question. You seem to hold the opinion that if a sadist had a strong enough of a compulsion defining them as a sadist they would forgo eve all together. Thus they will have little to no interest in EVE?
Thus we should not expect to see them in game? Not to any degree where they'd be noticeable, no. What about "part-time" sadists? People that have a lesser compulsion or inability to enact their desires in their real life? Is it possible they might play eve? In your opinion that is.
What a great concept for a University study. Rather than speculate we can ask a bunch of "part time" sadists if they might play Eve.
Why has this not been done before? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:48:00 -
[1031] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:What about "part-time" sadists? Do they even exist?
Do you think that they do not?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19711
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:50:00 -
[1032] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do you think that they do not? I'm asking you: do they? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1613
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:52:00 -
[1033] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do you think that they do not? I'm asking you: do they?
Nope.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:55:00 -
[1034] - Quote
I was asking you for your opinion, but here is one example that suggests that they do: Link
Quote:Most of the time, we try to avoid inflicting pain on others GÇö when we do hurt someone, we typically experience guilt, remorse, or other feelings of distress. But for some, cruelty can be pleasurable, even exciting. New research suggests that this kind of everyday sadism is real and more common than we might think
Quote:GÇ£Some find it hard to reconcile sadism with the concept of GÇÿnormalGÇÖ psychological functioning, but our findings show that sadistic tendencies among otherwise well-adjusted people must be acknowledged,GÇ¥ says psychological scientist Erin Buckels of the University of British Columbia.
Quote:The researchers hope that these new findings will help to broaden peopleGÇÖs view of sadism as an aspect of personality that manifests in everyday life, helping to dispel the notion that sadism is limited to sexual deviants and criminals.
And a little too Ironically....
Quote:Buckels and colleagues are continuing to investigate everyday sadism, including its role in online trolling behavior.
GÇ£Trolling culture is unique in that it explicitly celebrates sadistic pleasure, or GÇÿlulz,GÇÖGÇ¥ says Buckels. GÇ£It is, perhaps, not surprising then that sadists gravitate toward those activities.GÇ¥
And theyGÇÖre also exploring vicarious forms of sadism, such as enjoying cruelty in movies, video games, and sports.
So yea... I think they do. Now do you?
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:56:00 -
[1035] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do you think that they do not? I'm asking you: do they? Nope.
I guess your google skills cannot compare to actual reading and educating yourself on something, hmm? Oh well, there is always next time.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19712
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:58:00 -
[1036] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I was asking you for your opinion, but here is one example that suggests that they do: That suggests that there is no part-time about it, and what they do online has already been covered.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
81
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 22:59:00 -
[1037] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do you think that they do not? Yes. I think you annoy me enough, and I find your existence offensive enough, that I might enjoy tormenting you sadistically, in part-time.
Is your question answered? |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1083
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:03:00 -
[1038] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I was asking you for your opinion, but here is one example that suggests that they do: That suggests that there is no part-time about it, and what they do online has already been covered.
How does an article suggesting that sadism is far more commonplace than most people think, evidence against the idea of "part-time sadists". A phrase I used to describe sadists with less powerful drives?
You told me that you felt that sadists with strong drives would forgo eve all together. You did not speak to the potential online habits of people who have lesser sadist-type drives. Or whether or not such tenancies might, in your opinion, play a role in their career paths in EVE Online.
You only asked me if I thought that they existed or not, in a rather transparent attempt to deflect my question.
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1615
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:08:00 -
[1039] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You did not speak to the potential online habits of people who have lesser sadist-type drives. Or whether or not such tenancies might, in your opinion, play a role in their career paths in EVE Online.
You only asked me if I thought that they existed or not, in a rather transparent attempt to deflect my question.
The question is speculative. If you want to know what a sadist does with their free time, ask a sadist.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19712
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:09:00 -
[1040] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:How does an article suggesting that sadism is far more commonplace than most people think, evidence against the idea of "part-time sadists". By suggesting that there's nothing part-time about it: no lesser compulsion and no inability. In fact, they point to them finding plenty of outlets in their regular life.
Quote:You only asked me if I thought that they existed or not No, I asked you if they did exist since the premise of your question was itself highly questionable. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1083
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:11:00 -
[1041] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:How does an article suggesting that sadism is far more commonplace than most people think, evidence against the idea of "part-time sadists". By suggesting that there's nothing part-time about it: no lesser compulsion and not inability. Quote:You only asked me if I thought that they existed or not No, I asked you if they did exist since the premise of your question was itself highly questionable.
Fine. Regardless, might we expect to see them in game and on the forums? Or do you feel that something is precluding such people from being here in EVE among us?
|
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1615
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:11:00 -
[1042] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do you think that they do not? I'm asking you: do they? Nope. I guess your google skills cannot compare to actual reading and educating yourself on something, hmm? Oh well, there is always next time.
Says a person trying to get other people to speculate on the activities of a group of people while trying to make a distinction between sadists and "part time" sadists.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19712
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:13:00 -
[1043] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Fine. Regardless, might we expect to see them in game and on the forums? Or do you feel that something is precluding such people from being here in EVE among us? Repeating the question will not alter the answer. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1083
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:16:00 -
[1044] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Fine. Regardless, might we expect to see them in game and on the forums? Or do you feel that something is precluding such people from being here in EVE among us? Repeating the question will not alter the answer.
Which was? Did I miss something again in your epic pyramid quoting? By my count you have commented on hardcore sadists, not the type of everyday ones my link is referring to.
|
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
1029
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:18:00 -
[1045] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:I mean, especially with my "lifestyle" and not really shocked and offended by anything Why then did you report it, if it did not shock or offend you?
Just because someone like me (or, from his description, Krixtal) is nearly impossible to shock or offend at this point doesn't mean that we're incapable of judging abusive, EULA-breaking behavior, nor does it mean that we're exempt from the responsibility of reporting it before the person spewing the venom reaches someone who would be shocked or offended.
One of the things you learn very quickly in online games, if you're receptive to learning, is that some of the people who identify as virtual "good guys" are merely insecure and self-righteous, and some of the people who identify as virtual "bad guys" are self-aware enough to acknowledge and embrace their flaws, or who bear a great deal of responsibility in real life and so enjoy a complete freedom from responsibility in game.
Yes, of course there will be sadists and psychopaths mixed in here and there, but they're not common enough to be representative of anything. They won't pay much attention to the game itself anyway, since their focus will always be on other players.
As for me personally, I disdain the whole "good guy"/"bad guy" construction as cartoonish and restrictive, and as a roleplayer I am deeply suspicious of the idea that anyone whose character does something villainous is villainous--at least, beyond the extent that anyone is. M. Scott Peck observed that everyone has a part of them that should be in jail, after all. But that doesn't make everyone a monster. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1083
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:18:00 -
[1046] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Do you think that they do not? I'm asking you: do they? Nope. I guess your google skills cannot compare to actual reading and educating yourself on something, hmm? Oh well, there is always next time. Says a person trying to get other people to speculate on the activities of a group of people while trying to make a distinction between sadists and "part time" sadists.
Perhaps if you had read the link that made you look stupid in full, you would better understand the difference.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19712
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:19:00 -
[1047] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Which was? Did I miss something again in your epic pyramid quoting? No. You missed something in a simple quote, which is pretty spectacular since you made a pyramid out of it when you answered.
Look, just skip your pointless tip-toeing and get to the point. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1083
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:21:00 -
[1048] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Which was? Did I miss something again in your epic pyramid quoting? No. You missed something in a simple quote, which is pretty spectacular since you made a pyramid out of it when you answered.
Refresh me then.
Eternum is in your thread, re-derailing the thread that you were trying to derail.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19712
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:22:00 -
[1049] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Refresh me then. No. Get to the point. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1616
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:28:00 -
[1050] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Perhaps if you had read the link that made you look stupid in full, you would better understand the difference.
Wow they must really make them dumb where you come from. Of course, I'm just speculating.
1. The link you supplied was after my Google search for your term "part time" sadists. Further, it is not indicative or relevant to the discussion but just a citation you pulled from the ether to troll Tippia - good luck with that by the way. 2. You should continue to speculate on stuff - that is, after all, a true measure of one's intellect. 3. You should also try to make distinctions in the varying degrees of psychological disorders. Since you've already told us that you're not employed, I feel it safe to speculate that you lack any formal academic credentials to speak intelligently about anything.
"Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
|
Ai Shun
1161
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:29:00 -
[1051] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Not until I get my cozies!!
Mags, can you please give her back her cozies? I'll trade you a shiny new Badger for it or maybe a shiny Drake or Gnosis stuck in null sec? |
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:29:00 -
[1052] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Just because someone like me (or, from his description, Krixtal) is nearly impossible to shock or offend at this point doesn't mean that we're incapable of judging abusive, EULA-breaking behavior, You need to re-read this again very carefully. You are infact not capable of JUDGING " abusive, EULA-breaking behavior," Why? Because you are not CCP staff. Do you understand what I am very specifically and literally pointing out here?
If you are not shocked or offended by something, then the matter obviously is of no concern to you. Which leads to the second part:
Dersen Lowery wrote:nor does it mean that we're exempt from the responsibility of reporting it before the person spewing the venom reaches someone who would be shocked or offended. There is no such responsibility. A) It is not certain that person would ever conduct themselves that way again, towards anyone else. Just you, that once. B) Probably the next person is equally unoffended and unshocked as you where. C) Basically I think just about NOBODY is actually shocked or offended. Its all just pretence in order to get CCP to slap the bad player for you, for extra lols.
TLDR: I don't buy it. You do it because you want to get back at the person. |
Ai Shun
1161
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:33:00 -
[1053] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:IP banning, in your own admission, thousands of real players isn't changing the game? Spin faster.
IP banning is ... seriously? Was that suggested with a straight face or was the person having you on? I'm guessing they haven't heard of DNS or NAT yet and are not even vaguely concerned about how stupid that idea is.
|
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1083
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:34:00 -
[1054] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Refresh me then. No. Get to the point.
And now we have Tippa refusing to answer because he/she does not want to go on the interwebs record that common people with sadist-like tendencies can be playing eve. To do so would give a great deal of fodder to those who have held an opposing stance throughout this entire thread.
However where he thinks I am going with it is not really where I am going. But he has helped prove an equally as important of a point all on his own without me having to conclude anything.
On that note I will follow suit and alter my train of thought some...
The article I linked goes as far as to describes tendencies that we see here on the forums and in game all of the time. Not just in EVE mind you but the Internet in general. I didn't say those things either, I did not make them up, a professor of psychology performing a study made those statements.
To suggest that EVE is somehow immune to such things verses the rest of the Internet can only be a self-serving fallacy.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19715
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:37:00 -
[1055] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:And now we have Tippa refusing to GǪpointlessly repeat myself. So: get to the point.
Quote:However where he thinks I am going with it is not really where I am going. Where do I think you're going and where are you going?
Quote:The article I linked goes as far as to describes tendencies that we see here on the forums and in game all of the time. Not just in EVE mind you but the Internet in general. I didn't say those things either, I did not make them up, a professor of psychology performing a study made those statements. GǪand that is? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
1618
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:37:00 -
[1056] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Refresh me then. No. Get to the point. And now we have Tippa refusing to answer because he/she does not want to go on the interwebs record that common people with sadist-like tendencies can be playing eve. To do so would give a great deal of fodder to those who have held an opposing stance throughout this entire thread. However where he thinks I am going with it is not really where I am going. But he has helped prove an equally as important of a point all on his own without me having to conclude anything. On that note I will follow suit and alter my train of thought some... The article I linked goes as far as to describes tendencies that we see here on the forums and in game all of the time. Not just in EVE mind you but the Internet in general. I didn't say those things either, I did not make them up, a professor of psychology performing a study made those statements. To suggest that EVE is somehow immune to such things verses the rest of the Internet can only be a self-serving fallacy.
Well what have we learned today? Eternum Praetorian can read. Congratulations!
Sadists spend time on the internet. Who knew? "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide
www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game! |
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:39:00 -
[1057] - Quote
Huzzah! I think this thread is almost over! Any guesses on how many pages will be left when it's cleaned? |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1084
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:40:00 -
[1058] - Quote
Tippia wrote:The article I linked goes as far as to describes tendencies that we see here on the forums and in game all of the time. Not just in EVE mind you but the Internet in general. I didn't say those things either, I did not make them up, a professor of psychology performing a study made those statements.
GǪand that is?
I'm sorry... what?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19715
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:42:00 -
[1059] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I'm sorry... what?
Eternum Praetorian wrote:The article I linked goes as far as to describes tendencies that we see here on the forums and in game all of the time. Not just in EVE mind you but the Internet in general. I didn't say those things either, I did not make them up, a professor of psychology performing a study made those statements. GǪand that is?
Put another way: get to the point.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1084
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:45:00 -
[1060] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:I'm sorry... what? Eternum Praetorian wrote:The article I linked goes as far as to describes tendencies that we see here on the forums and in game all of the time. Not just in EVE mind you but the Internet in general. I didn't say those things either, I did not make them up, a professor of psychology performing a study made those statements. GǪand that is? Put another way: get to the point.
It's pretty clear Tippa. I fail to see the mystery in that quote.
|
|
Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:46:00 -
[1061] - Quote
Link the article again. I'll read it this time. |
Eternum Praetorian
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1084
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:48:00 -
[1062] - Quote
Happy to help you sir!
Eternum Praetorian wrote:I was asking you for your opinion, but here is one example that suggests that they do: LinkQuote:Most of the time, we try to avoid inflicting pain on others GÇö when we do hurt someone, we typically experience guilt, remorse, or other feelings of distress. But for some, cruelty can be pleasurable, even exciting. New research suggests that this kind of everyday sadism is real and more common than we might think Quote:GÇ£Some find it hard to reconcile sadism with the concept of GÇÿnormalGÇÖ psychological functioning, but our findings show that sadistic tendencies among otherwise well-adjusted people must be acknowledged,GÇ¥ says psychological scientist Erin Buckels of the University of British Columbia. Quote:The researchers hope that these new findings will help to broaden peopleGÇÖs view of sadism as an aspect of personality that manifests in everyday life, helping to dispel the notion that sadism is limited to sexual deviants and criminals. And a little too Ironically.... Quote:Buckels and colleagues are continuing to investigate everyday sadism, including its role in online trolling behavior.
GÇ£Trolling culture is unique in that it explicitly celebrates sadistic pleasure, or GÇÿlulz,GÇÖGÇ¥ says Buckels. GÇ£It is, perhaps, not surprising then that sadists gravitate toward those activities.GÇ¥
And theyGÇÖre also exploring vicarious forms of sadism, such as enjoying cruelty in movies, video games, and sports. So yea... I think they do exist. Now do you?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19716
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:49:00 -
[1063] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:It's pretty clear Tippa. I know, that's why I'm a bit baffled that you had to ask.
Quote:I fail to see the mystery in that quote. GǪaside from its lack of content. What tendencies? What things? What statements? Oh, and where do I think you're going and where are you going?
In other words: get to the point. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
|
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
930
|
Posted - 2014.02.27 23:51:00 -
[1064] - Quote
thread temp locked for additional cleaning. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 36 :: [one page] |