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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2565
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 15:34:00 -
[751] - Quote
Tracy Smith wrote: Those 40% of solo PVE players are what remains after the initial 50% of paying subscribers quit after a couple of months, so there's no financial incentive to entice players out of NPC corps.
What incentive is there for a solo PVE player to leave an NPC corps? Get wardecced? They just want to log in, do their own thing without any obligations to a group and log off again. There's no reason for them to leave their NPC corp. They still get all the gameplay and social interaction they want. There are 300+ people online in my NPC corp and over 400 in the help channel. How many people online in the average corp?
Anyway, this thread is just an extension of the PVP in EVE.
CCP never gave any data that specifically indicated that bolded part.
You hit on the problem that deserves its own thread, player corporations need to be more attractive than NPC corporations. However that is a pro to this suggestion it makes player corporations more attractive. If you weight the risk and reward then find that not worth the risk its your own decision.
Its hard for me to quantify your last question because we have maybe 200 online in GoonWaffe at any time but, we have jabber and can get tonnes of people from a single broadcast. Those people are idle/doing other things and will log in to do things if there's a call but, not idle in-game, if we include them its probably near 5-600 people at any time. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 15:37:00 -
[752] - Quote
This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls? |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2565
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 15:45:00 -
[753] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?
Yes basically that's what the last 5 or so pages of debate has been about. The unfortunate 1% that will be caught while the 99% of garbage is removed. It was already judged to be appropriate and effective as can be seen by CAOD rules being in place for so long. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 17:46:00 -
[754] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?
If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another.
As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training?
forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2571
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 17:53:00 -
[755] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Chewytowel Haklar wrote:This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls? If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another. As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training? forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock.
We've been over it already but, the short of it is that its working as intended. Its not supposed to be a herculean effort and it worked for CAOD. This is only part of the solution not a silver bullet. It will accomplish its purpose which is reduction of trolling and improvement of forum quality. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 18:20:00 -
[756] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Chewytowel Haklar wrote:This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls? If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another. As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training? forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock. We've been over it already but, the short of it is that its working as intended. Its not supposed to be a herculean effort and it worked for CAOD. This is only part of the solution not a silver bullet. It will accomplish its purpose which is reduction of trolling and improvement of forum quality.
it seams like no effort at all which is why I'm questioning if it work at all |
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 18:23:00 -
[757] - Quote
I thought the Goons were known as the biggest trolls in the game, and they are not only in a corporation but also a rather established alliance. I'm suspecting that this is in itself a carefully orchestrated troll against those who choose to stay in npc corps in fact. Or perhaps a covert attempt at attacking carebear players. It would not surprise me considering there are many that hate them and even wish to hunt them down and make their lives miserable.
This could also put more of them in a corporation that they would perhaps form/join just to retain posting privelages, but also allow them to be wardec'd to hell and back. I wonder who would be paying the wardec'er to harass them? |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 18:29:00 -
[758] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Chewytowel Haklar wrote:This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls? If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another. As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training? forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock. We've been over it already but, the short of it is that its working as intended. Its not supposed to be a herculean effort and it worked for CAOD. This is only part of the solution not a silver bullet. It will accomplish its purpose which is reduction of trolling and improvement of forum quality. it seams like no effort at all which is why I'm questioning if it work at all
I happen to be in the recruitment business and can assure you its fairly difficult. We have historical evidence from CAOD showing it works. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 18:30:00 -
[759] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:I thought the Goons were known as the biggest trolls in the game, and they are not only in a corporation but also a rather established alliance. I'm suspecting that this is in itself a carefully orchestrated troll against those who choose to stay in npc corps in fact. Or perhaps a covert attempt at attacking carebear players. It would not surprise me considering there are many that hate them and even wish to hunt them down and make their lives miserable.
This could also put more of them in a corporation that they would perhaps form/join just to retain posting privelages, but also allow them to be wardec'd to hell and back. I wonder who would be paying the wardec'er to harass them?
Goonspiracy will get you nowhere. If you have a point rephrase it without the goonspiracy. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1352
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 18:32:00 -
[760] - Quote
The forums would be a much better place. The Tears Must Flow |
|
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
16
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 18:38:00 -
[761] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:Chewytowel Haklar wrote:This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls? If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another. As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training? forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock. We've been over it already but, the short of it is that its working as intended. Its not supposed to be a herculean effort and it worked for CAOD. This is only part of the solution not a silver bullet. It will accomplish its purpose which is reduction of trolling and improvement of forum quality. it seams like no effort at all which is why I'm questioning if it work at all I happen to be in the recruitment business and can assure you its fairly difficult. We have historical evidence from CAOD showing it works.
That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in.
|
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 18:42:00 -
[762] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in.
That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll." This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
17
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 19:43:00 -
[763] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in. That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll."
if CAOD was applied to the whole forums it becomes worth the very little effort to put the alt in a corp. If the intent is to troll they will do it. What will be lost is the people who are not trolls and just like the NPC corp. Hell this goes though I'll open my corp to allow applications , No tax all applications are approved. easy as pie. (I alone make this corp qualify for the 10 toon corp rule.) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 19:45:00 -
[764] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in. That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll." if CAOD was applied to the whole forums it becomes worth the very little effort to put the alt in a corp. If the intent is to troll they will do it. What will be lost is the people who are not trolls and just like the NPC corp. Hell this goes though I'll open my corp to allow applications , No tax all applications are approved. easy as pie. (I alone make this corp qualify for the 10 toon corp rule.)
You're showing your lack of reading the OP, it does not apply to all forums. There's no evidence historical or otherwise that supports your claim. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
18
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 20:36:00 -
[765] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in. That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll." if CAOD was applied to the whole forums it becomes worth the very little effort to put the alt in a corp. If the intent is to troll they will do it. What will be lost is the people who are not trolls and just like the NPC corp. Hell this goes though I'll open my corp to allow applications , No tax all applications are approved. easy as pie. (I alone make this corp qualify for the 10 toon corp rule.) You're showing your lack of reading the OP, it does not apply to all forums. There's no evidence historical or otherwise that supports your claim.
Trolls will trolls. and I read the op it applies to 99% of the forums every thing but Q&A, F&I, the Bazaar and recruitment. You claim that CAOD is better quality, no evidence of that.
from op: It is easily circumvented by players that wish to have a solo experience in EVE and wish to post via 10+ man corporations,
10 man isn't solo.
from op: It provides consequences/content for actions by exposing posters to retribution should their posts be deemed unpalatable by other players,
If someone's post is really that unpalatable that you want to take action it doesn't matter if they are an NPC corp or not.
from op: Leave newbies unaffected as they can still post questions, ideas and look for corporations
newer players are often posting more specific questions in the proper forums (skills, ships & mods and what not) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 20:40:00 -
[766] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote: Trolls will trolls. and I read the op it applies to 99% of the forums every thing but Q&A, F&I, the Bazaar and recruitment. You claim that CAOD is better quality, no evidence of that.
from op: It is easily circumvented by players that wish to have a solo experience in EVE and wish to post via 10+ man corporations,
10 man isn't solo.
from op: It provides consequences/content for actions by exposing posters to retribution should their posts be deemed unpalatable by other players,
If someone's post is really that unpalatable that you want to take action it doesn't matter if they are an NPC corp or not.
from op: Leave newbies unaffected as they can still post questions, ideas and look for corporations
newer players are often posting more specific questions in the proper forums (skills, ships & mods and what not)
If you read the OP then you wouldn't have tried to claim it covered the entirety of the forums. You can have a solo experience in any organization an NPC corporation with 1000 members isn't solo either. Yep and by concentrating them on the answers already in New Citizens its much quicker for them to get the information they need and for that forum to become of more use to newbies. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
18
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 21:16:00 -
[767] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote: Trolls will trolls. and I read the op it applies to 99% of the forums every thing but Q&A, F&I, the Bazaar and recruitment. You claim that CAOD is better quality, no evidence of that.
from op: It is easily circumvented by players that wish to have a solo experience in EVE and wish to post via 10+ man corporations,
10 man isn't solo.
from op: It provides consequences/content for actions by exposing posters to retribution should their posts be deemed unpalatable by other players,
If someone's post is really that unpalatable that you want to take action it doesn't matter if they are an NPC corp or not.
from op: Leave newbies unaffected as they can still post questions, ideas and look for corporations
newer players are often posting more specific questions in the proper forums (skills, ships & mods and what not)
If you read the OP then you wouldn't have tried to claim it covered the entirety of the forums. You can have a solo experience in any organization an NPC corporation with 1000 members isn't solo either. Yep and by concentrating them on the answers already in New Citizens its much quicker for them to get the information they need and for that forum to become of more use to newbies.
nitpicking |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 21:21:00 -
[768] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:nitpicking
Do you have another point to raise or are you done? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
181
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 21:53:00 -
[769] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: ...Said stuff
Oh look...its a goonie that is complaining about forum trolling. Who is the pubbie now? Hilarious poasting. Possible POTY awards right here. Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 21:59:00 -
[770] - Quote
Karash Amerius wrote:La Nariz wrote: ...Said stuff Oh look...its a goonie that is complaining about forum trolling. Who is the pubbie now? Hilarious poasting. Possible POTY awards right here.
Do you have an argument or is goonspiracy the best you can muster? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1212
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:35:00 -
[771] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:La Nariz wrote:Lady Rift wrote:That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in. That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll." if CAOD was applied to the whole forums it becomes worth the very little effort to put the alt in a corp. If the intent is to troll they will do it. What will be lost is the people who are not trolls and just like the NPC corp. Hell this goes though I'll open my corp to allow applications , No tax all applications are approved. easy as pie. (I alone make this corp qualify for the 10 toon corp rule.) You're showing your lack of reading the OP, it does not apply to all forums. There's no evidence historical or otherwise that supports your claim. There is no evidence that supports the breadth of yours either. The claim the the effort wall remains equally effective for the majority of the forum as it is with CAOD does not exist. It effectively cannot exist unless the conditions to test it existed, which they do not and have not.
The claim there is no proof that the effort wall will be ineffective for the whole forum save a few sections that those you are trying to filter won't be using is meaningless because their exist that same lack of evidence that such an effort wall is effective when the scope of what is behind it is changed.
Further, since you can pretty well be assured that some of the NPC posters in this very thread will seek the resolution of fresh alt in a posting corp we at least know that of this small subset the effort wall of new character + posting corp is insufficient. For those true dedicated posting alts already out there the resolution will be even simpler as a new character is unneeded. Furthermore some of us would probably be willing to facilitate other excluded posters with dedicated corps making this easier still.
La Nariz wrote:Community feedback means nothing when there is no consequence for your actions as can be seen by the voluminous amounts of npc alts in the first 3 pages of GD. This suggestion creates no consequence in itself and thus, if a lack of consequence is the issue, solves nothing. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1212
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:37:00 -
[772] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Karash Amerius wrote:La Nariz wrote: ...Said stuff Oh look...its a goonie that is complaining about forum trolling. Who is the pubbie now? Hilarious poasting. Possible POTY awards right here. Do you have an argument or is goonspiracy the best you can muster? The infuriating thing is the suggestion that I get kicked from most of the forums but that level of posting effort stays. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 22:57:00 -
[773] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Karash Amerius wrote:La Nariz wrote: ...Said stuff Oh look...its a goonie that is complaining about forum trolling. Who is the pubbie now? Hilarious poasting. Possible POTY awards right here. Do you have an argument or is goonspiracy the best you can muster? The infuriating thing is the suggestion that I get kicked from most of the forums but that level of posting effort stays.
What exactly do you expect me to do with what I responded to there? There is nothing of substance and nothing for me to work with. The goonspiracy crowd is full of reality deniers as well so there is little point in trying to dissuade them from it as well. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1212
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 23:10:00 -
[774] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:La Nariz wrote:Karash Amerius wrote:La Nariz wrote: ...Said stuff Oh look...its a goonie that is complaining about forum trolling. Who is the pubbie now? Hilarious poasting. Possible POTY awards right here. Do you have an argument or is goonspiracy the best you can muster? The infuriating thing is the suggestion that I get kicked from most of the forums but that level of posting effort stays. What exactly do you expect me to do with what I responded to there? There is nothing of substance and nothing for me to work with. The goonspiracy crowd is full of reality deniers as well so there is little point in trying to dissuade them from it as well. Wasn't referring to you but the guy you responded to. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 23:17:00 -
[775] - Quote
^^: My mistake, sorry.
Tyberius Franklin wrote: There is no evidence that supports the breadth of yours either. The claim the the effort wall remains equally effective for the majority of the forum as it is with CAOD does not exist. It effectively cannot exist unless the conditions to test it existed, which they do not and have not.
The claim there is no proof that the effort wall will be ineffective for the whole forum save a few sections that those you are trying to filter won't be using is meaningless because their exist that same lack of evidence that such an effort wall is effective when the scope of what is behind it is changed.
Further, since you can pretty well be assured that some of the NPC posters in this very thread will seek the resolution of fresh alt in a posting corp we at least know that of this small subset the effort wall of new character + posting corp is insufficient. For those true dedicated posting alts already out there the resolution will be even simpler as a new character is unneeded. Furthermore some of us would probably be willing to facilitate other excluded posters with dedicated corps making this easier still.
This suggestion creates no consequence in itself and thus, if a lack of consequence is the issue, solves nothing.
There is historical evidence showing it worked for CAOD, a subforum, everything else is also a subforum. Once it was full of trolling then when the changes hit a considerable amount of it was curbed. Claiming "there's no proof of it not doing something" is an argument from silence. Working as intended the suggestion already created content, not of the quality of some other more prolific players but, still its more quality content and social interaction than we had before.
Lack of consequences is part of the issue but, not the whole nor the one this suggestion is intended to handle, low forum quality.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1212
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 23:35:00 -
[776] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:^^: My mistake, sorry. Tyberius Franklin wrote: There is no evidence that supports the breadth of yours either. The claim the the effort wall remains equally effective for the majority of the forum as it is with CAOD does not exist. It effectively cannot exist unless the conditions to test it existed, which they do not and have not.
The claim there is no proof that the effort wall will be ineffective for the whole forum save a few sections that those you are trying to filter won't be using is meaningless because their exist that same lack of evidence that such an effort wall is effective when the scope of what is behind it is changed.
Further, since you can pretty well be assured that some of the NPC posters in this very thread will seek the resolution of fresh alt in a posting corp we at least know that of this small subset the effort wall of new character + posting corp is insufficient. For those true dedicated posting alts already out there the resolution will be even simpler as a new character is unneeded. Furthermore some of us would probably be willing to facilitate other excluded posters with dedicated corps making this easier still.
This suggestion creates no consequence in itself and thus, if a lack of consequence is the issue, solves nothing.
There is historical evidence showing it worked for CAOD, a subforum, everything else is also a subforum. Once it was full of trolling then when the changes hit a considerable amount of it was curbed. Claiming "there's no proof of it not doing something" is an argument from silence. Working as intended the suggestion already created content, not of the quality of some other more prolific players but, still its more quality content and social interaction than we had before. Lack of consequences is part of the issue but, not the whole nor the one this suggestion is intended to handle, low forum quality. Yes, the evidence exists that it works for CAOD, and only CAOD. A single subforum is not multiple subforums, thus CAOD alone is at best analogous to any 1 subforum and even that makes assumptions since CAOD's focus was not an area of shared experience for those excluded from posting.
You already know from those here that the 2 differing conditions, CAOD and the proposed, have no equivalency for them. Do you think our conclusion on the matter and the effort wall will not translate to a significant portion of other affected posters? |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2572
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 00:45:00 -
[777] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Yes, the evidence exists that it works for CAOD, and only CAOD. A single subforum is not multiple subforums, thus CAOD alone is at best analogous to any 1 subforum and even that makes assumptions since CAOD's focus was not an area of shared experience for those excluded from posting.
You already know from those here that the 2 differing conditions, CAOD and the proposed, have no equivalency for them. Do you think our conclusion on the matter and the effort wall will not translate to a significant portion of other affected posters?
So a subforum is a subforum but also isn't a subforum that's a crazy definition. They are all subforums and we know how it affects a subforum, it reduced trolling. There is no evidence showing it will only work in one specific subforum.
The suggestion is literally CAOD rules with a larger scope so there's definitely equivalency there. I think the effort wall will be working as intended and in concert with other suggestions will improve the forum's quality. I'm sure there will be people affected whom aren't trolls but, its still going to do more good than harm. Do you think more player corporation members use the forums than NPC corporation members, people using alts to post are not included in the NPC corporation members group? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1213
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 01:17:00 -
[778] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Yes, the evidence exists that it works for CAOD, and only CAOD. A single subforum is not multiple subforums, thus CAOD alone is at best analogous to any 1 subforum and even that makes assumptions since CAOD's focus was not an area of shared experience for those excluded from posting.
You already know from those here that the 2 differing conditions, CAOD and the proposed, have no equivalency for them. Do you think our conclusion on the matter and the effort wall will not translate to a significant portion of other affected posters? So a subforum is a subforum but also isn't a subforum that's a crazy definition. They are all subforums and we know how it affects a subforum, it reduced trolling. There is no evidence showing it will only work in one specific subforum. The suggestion is literally CAOD rules with a larger scope so there's definitely equivalency there. I think the effort wall will be working as intended and in concert with other suggestions will improve the forum's quality. I'm sure there will be people affected whom aren't trolls but, its still going to do more good than harm. Do you think more player corporation members use the forums than NPC corporation members, people using alts to post are not included in the NPC corporation members group? That seems borderline intentionally obtuse. If all subforums held the same traits they would be indistinguishable and meaningless. Subforums are defined by their content and that content decides their value to individuals, and as a result the value of any effort walls you place around them.
We only know what the CAOD subforum will do with these restrictions becuase only the CAOD subforum is a focal point for CAOD content. Conversely if CAOD was open yet Ships and Mods closed I'd have a posting alt in a corp for it, yet still not care a bit about CAOD. So we know that for individuals the value of subforums is variable and inconsistent.
Furthermore some trolling doesn't bypass the effort wall because there is no need for it. GD is pretty much the highest traffic area on the forums and as such the prime focal point. For trolls and legitimate posters the gain:effort is much higher than in CAOD. That one subforum would have me in a new alt by the next login session.
So I must ask again, do you think my motivations so rare?
As to your question, I'm not sure I catch your meaning, if I understand your exclusion properly it means removing any player who has a character in a player corp, regardless of their posting characters status. If it does than it's probably a smaller number than a simple count would suggest. Seeing though that those individuals value anonymity from their other characters, with the means to keep posting being supplied eagerly why would we expect any behavioral change?
To that end, who knows, maybe this is a good thing since 1) I'll be freed from any reputational obligation to goodpost, 2) I'll still have the same access as now, 3) Socially my usefulness will increase by reintroducing others to the forum and 4) I can take out any frustrations I have for losing what little reputation I have out on CAOD. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2573
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 01:42:00 -
[779] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:That seems borderline intentionally obtuse. If all subforums held the same traits they would be indistinguishable and meaningless. Subforums are defined by their content and that content decides their value to individuals, and as a result the value of any effort walls you place around them.
We only know what the CAOD subforum will do with these restrictions becuase only the CAOD subforum is a focal point for CAOD content. Conversely if CAOD was open yet Ships and Mods closed I'd have a posting alt in a corp for it, yet still not care a bit about CAOD. So we know that for individuals the value of subforums is variable and inconsistent.
Furthermore some trolling doesn't bypass the effort wall because there is no need for it. GD is pretty much the highest traffic area on the forums and as such the prime focal point. For trolls and legitimate posters the gain:effort is much higher than in CAOD. That one subforum would have me in a new alt by the next login session.
So I must ask again, do you think my motivations so rare?
As to your question, I'm not sure I catch your meaning, if I understand your exclusion properly it means removing any player who has a character in a player corp, regardless of their posting characters status. If it does than it's probably a smaller number than a simple count would suggest. Seeing though that those individuals value anonymity from their other characters, with the means to keep posting being supplied eagerly why would we expect any behavioral change?
To that end, who knows, maybe this is a good thing since 1) I'll be freed from any reputational obligation to goodpost, 2) I'll still have the same access as now, 3) Socially my usefulness will increase by reintroducing others to the forum and 4) I can take out any frustrations I have for losing what little reputation I have out on CAOD.
Subforums are the same thing with a selected topic its the posters that make the difference. Much to the chagrin of the ISD people will post about anything anywhere so nothing makes any of the different forums special snowflakes aside from the exceptions I've already stated. Right now there is zero effort to get any sort of troll alt started; post suggestion there will be effort required.
The value of each forum is subjective to the player there is no way to quantify this. For example you're arguing that GD is of more value to players because it has a higher visibility than the other forums. I'd argue the opposite that CAOD has a higher possibility of affecting the metagame so its of far more value than GD.
I don't think your motivations are so rare but, I think the follow through on those motivations is much more dependent on the effort required than you are suggesting. I think NPC corporation members, not people using alts, are the lesser population of forum posters when compared to player corporations which means it will impact a lesser amount of people. Now that the people would have to find a corporation for their alt that alts utility will be gone and they'll either mothball it or climb the effort wall. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Jade Blackwind
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
76
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 08:44:00 -
[780] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Rather than decrease player freedom, perhaps we could address the problem by increasing it.
Rather than blocking NPC corp members from posting, perhaps it would be better to allow us to ignore by corp. Thus rather than ignore TrollyMcAlt of The Scope, La Nariz would simply be able to ignore everyone in The Scope I'd support this idea wholeheartedly, blocking thousands of prodigious trolls by one could be tiresome.
Ignore by corp - and ignore by alliance, please. |
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