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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
45
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Posted - 2014.08.10 07:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
I have yet to see a plex contract that isn't a scam. |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
438
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Posted - 2014.08.10 08:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
Solutio Letum wrote:That's a idiot of idea.
The only way to sell things from sov space hubs that have been flipped is to contract it. There forth if you flip a hub you cant publicly sell your plex's anymore if you had one in there for some silly reason. Its stuck there, "forever"
This i didnt think of, and on that part your 100% right, fortune iv been able to put my stuff on the market after Sov flip.
I to think the contracts are easy to spot, yet again i see to many not seeing the give a plex at the bottom. Nisroc Angels - The Obsidian Front Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
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Samantha Floyd
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2014.08.10 20:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Scamming belongs in EVE, so an absolute "no" to this suggestion.
The UI could use some work, however. It should not be saying,
"You pay 700mil"
"You get 1 PLEX"
"You pay 1 PLEX"
Despite this making sense (you need to get the PLEX first to resell it), this confuses far too many new players and causes them to be scammed. It should be listing the exact result of the contract in a more obvious manner.
"You pay 700mil + 1 PLEX (from seller)"
"You receive 1 PLEX"
Including the bracketed section.
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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1091
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Posted - 2014.08.10 20:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Samantha Floyd wrote:Scamming belongs in EVE, so an absolute "no" to this suggestion.
The UI could use some work, however. It should not be saying,
"You pay 700mil"
"You get 1 PLEX"
"You pay 1 PLEX"
Despite this making sense (you need to get the PLEX first to resell it), this confuses far too many new players and causes them to be scammed. It should be listing the exact result of the contract in a more obvious manner.
"You pay 700mil + 1 PLEX (from seller)"
"You receive 1 PLEX"
Including the bracketed section.
By the time one manages to aquire enough ISK to buy a PLEX they should be smart enough to understand what the terms "get" and "pay" are. Other than putting "THIS IS A SCAM" in the contract I don't see how it could be any clearer.
If any contract might be tricky it's the T3 skill book instead of subsystem scam. That one could catch someone not paying attention because it looks like you're getting a T3 with subsystems. |
Tabyll Altol
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
10
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Posted - 2014.08.10 21:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
learn to read contracts.
or take the consequenzes it-¦s not that hard :D
mfg
-1 |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
438
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Posted - 2014.08.11 06:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Samantha Floyd wrote:Scamming belongs in EVE, so an absolute "no" to this suggestion.
The UI could use some work, however. It should not be saying,
"You pay 700mil"
"You get 1 PLEX"
"You pay 1 PLEX"
Despite this making sense (you need to get the PLEX first to resell it), this confuses far too many new players and causes them to be scammed. It should be listing the exact result of the contract in a more obvious manner.
"You pay 700mil + 1 PLEX (from seller)"
"You receive 1 PLEX"
Including the bracketed section.
This i actually like, make the UI better so at least there is no doubt Nisroc Angels - The Obsidian Front Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
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Pelorios
Pelorios Industries
2
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Posted - 2014.08.11 07:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
A sandbox game should be twice as careful as to use of real money.
You just get a really bad reputation if you make the news about people losing thousands in real life money, because someone "blew up" their ship in a game.
Any publicity might be good publicity, you just end up attracting the wrong crowd.
After 10 years on and off in this game I am disappointed that the scamming and lowlife element [torturing people with double your money games] has in fact gotten worse. I can only be in awe of CCP's tolerance in this area.
Money is not everything, but its funny how people say don't carry your EVE problems to EVE players in real life. Well do you real think that real money is a tad closer to real life than a subscription only based game?
Just be careful, is all i say.
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Pelorios
Pelorios Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.08.11 07:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Because the market has a tax associated with it, while contracts have considerably less in fees. Same reason you would (and should) station trade them, save that you can do it over great distances and don't have to be online to sell it.
So you would forgo protecting new players or pitfalls of bad design because you are ...a greedy MMO player?
This is real life cash we are talking about here and in this game it seems they can be lost faster than you can make them...
I believe we agree that we don't want the isk-sink elements of this game to become RLmoney-sink elements just so that some people want to play an online game.
After all you can never take them out of the game, otherwise CCP would get a call from the gambling commission and start thinking about moving to Malta... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8709
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Posted - 2014.08.11 07:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Pelorios wrote: So you would forgo protecting new players or pitfalls of bad design because you are ...a greedy MMO player?
No, I would forgo bubble wrapping new players. That, and assuming that basic reading skills are something that everyone who plays EVE possesses.
Quote: This is real life cash we are talking about here
No, it's not. Read the EULA.
Quote: After all you can never take them out of the game, otherwise CCP would get a call from the gambling commission and start thinking about moving to Malta...
??? What in the hell are you rambling about? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Pelorios
Pelorios Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.08.11 07:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote: This is real life cash we are talking about here
No, it's not. Read the EULA.
And he calls me illiterate..lol
Please don't panic..you'll still be able to play for free, it would just take a few extra EvEisk to buy your PLEX |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8710
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Posted - 2014.08.11 08:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
Pelorios wrote: And he calls me illiterate..lol
No, I didn't before, unless you got contract scammed, in which case yes, your literacy is in question.
Quote: Please don't panic..you'll still be able to play for free, it would just take a few extra EvEisk to buy your PLEX
I actually hope it goes up even higher by the end of the year, I plan to dump my stock of PLEX fairly soon, as I won't need them for dual training much longer.
But anyway, yeah, read your terms of use. A PLEX is not analogous to real money, since CCP explicitly states that once you have paid them for a PLEX, poof, your money is gone, exchanged for a digital item. What you do with it afterwards is 100% your problem. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Pelorios
Pelorios Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.08.11 08:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Pelorios wrote: And he calls me illiterate..lol
No, I didn't before, unless you got contract scammed, in which case yes, your literacy is in question. Quote: Please don't panic..you'll still be able to play for free, it would just take a few extra EvEisk to buy your PLEX
I actually hope it goes up even higher by the end of the year, I plan to dump my stock of PLEX fairly soon, as I won't need them for dual training much longer. But anyway, yeah, read your terms of use. A PLEX is not analogous to real money, since CCP explicitly states that once you have paid them for a PLEX, poof, your money is gone, exchanged for a digital item. What you do with it afterwards is 100% your problem.
i think we agree. Its the poof that is different from before. You couldn't poof a subscription right? A subscription gets you 1 months playing time. You couldn't lose that instantly no matter what you did. Now you can. Its a bit dangerous for a game rated PG 12. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
8710
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Posted - 2014.08.11 08:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
Pelorios wrote: A subscription gets you 1 months playing time. You couldn't lose that instantly no matter what you did. Now you can. Its a bit dangerous for a game rated PG 12.
That's the tradeoff for being able to sell it for in game money. It has to be an in game item to combat potential RMT. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Pelorios
Pelorios Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.08.11 10:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Pelorios wrote: A subscription gets you 1 months playing time. You couldn't lose that instantly no matter what you did. Now you can. Its a bit dangerous for a game rated PG 12. That's the tradeoff for being able to sell it for in game money. It has to be an in game item to combat potential RMT.
RMT if you mean Real Money Transactions has nothing to do with it.
If you mean, buy and sell PLEXs for real money, that can be done. Its illegal without CCP's permission of course.
If you mean, ways by which someone could take real money out of the game, e.g. I sell you a Nightmare for $50.00 then PLEX can make it even easier.
The ability to buy gametime through PLEXes could very easily have been restricted to just that. Gametime.
If they wanted they could restrict it so that if you bought a PLEX you could only exchange it for gametime and only up to a year. Worst case scenario $180 per year per account.
But no, they choose to make it EveIsk exchangeable. That's what allowing the scams. That's what's irresponsible of CCP.
Its ok to allow scamming ingame. You can wave it as the games character or style. Every game is different. But real life money, that's common the world over... |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
232
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Posted - 2014.08.11 12:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Pelorios wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Pelorios wrote: A subscription gets you 1 months playing time. You couldn't lose that instantly no matter what you did. Now you can. Its a bit dangerous for a game rated PG 12. That's the tradeoff for being able to sell it for in game money. It has to be an in game item to combat potential RMT. RMT if you mean Real Money Transactions has nothing to do with it. If you mean, buy and sell PLEXs for real money, that can be done. Its illegal without CCP's permission of course. If you mean, ways by which someone could take real money out of the game, e.g. I sell you a Nightmare for $50.00 then PLEX can make it even easier. The ability to buy gametime through PLEXes could very easily have been restricted to just that. Gametime. If they wanted they could restrict it so that if you bought a PLEX you could only exchange it for gametime and only up to a year. Worst case scenario $180 per year per account. But no, they choose to make it EveIsk exchangeable. That's what allowing the scams. That's what's irresponsible of CCP. Its ok to allow scamming ingame. You can wave it as the games character or style. Every game is different. But real life money, that's common the world over...
Well then we are all lucky CCP doesn't allow real life money trading, right?
Now that I've said this, excuse me while I'm making sure my subscriptions are paid and look up if I can afford to buy one or two PLEX (a digital item) for dual training this month.
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Pelorios
Pelorios Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.08.11 12:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:
Now that I've said this, excuse me while I'm making sure my subscriptions are paid and look up if I can afford to buy one or two PLEX (a digital item) for dual training this month.
I never said you wouldn't be able to do that...*sigh*
ok... TL;DR version:
I agree with the OP.
o7
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
543
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Posted - 2014.08.11 12:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
shimiku wrote:i cant see the problem because its really easy to see if its a scam or not
It's also not as if the person loses an entire PLEX. As the OP says, the person trades 1 Plex he already has for almost the price of a PLEX minus perhaps 30 million ISK.
Also, the only kind of player who can get hurt in this kind of scam is one who already has a PLEX in his posession somehow. I'd imagine there aren't many of those among the new player population.
Verdict: EVE is working as intended, and the described problem is - at best - very tiny. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
232
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Posted - 2014.08.11 12:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Pelorios wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:
Now that I've said this, excuse me while I'm making sure my subscriptions are paid and look up if I can afford to buy one or two PLEX (a digital item) for dual training this month.
I never said you wouldn't be able to do that...*sigh* ok... TL;DR version: I agree with the OP. o7
That was sarcasm.
TL;DR:
The OP is full of ****. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2394
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 12:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Just ... wow.
I am at such a loss for how to describe this feeling of utter ... disappointment in the type of person who comes to EVE these days. |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
438
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Posted - 2014.08.11 12:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Pelorios wrote:Owen Levanth wrote:
Now that I've said this, excuse me while I'm making sure my subscriptions are paid and look up if I can afford to buy one or two PLEX (a digital item) for dual training this month.
I never said you wouldn't be able to do that...*sigh* ok... TL;DR version: I agree with the OP. o7 That was sarcasm. TL;DR: The OP is full of ****.
Im full of *** stars, because i came up with a suggestion which over time have shown me people, mainly students, are forced to stop playing, because they might not have been so bright as it seems everyone is, and hooked on a scam, which the day after will close their account due unpaid subs.
I personal see PLEX as real money, and the reson came this year at FAN fest where you could use PLEX to more or less buy hotel, beers ect. beside pay to play the game. Nisroc Angels - The Obsidian Front Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
468
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Posted - 2014.08.11 13:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ynot Eyob wrote: i came up with a suggestion which over time have shown me people, mainly students, are forced to stop playing, because they might not have been so bright.
students who can't read....you can't find a better cause to white knight?
If they can't read, there is the market place. It doesn't lie.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2395
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Posted - 2014.08.11 13:08:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ynot Eyob wrote: Im full of *** stars, because i came up with a suggestion which over time have shown me people, mainly students, are forced to stop playing, because they might not have been so bright as it seems everyone is, and hooked on a scam, which the day after will close their account due unpaid subs.
I personal see PLEX as real money, and the reson came this year at FAN fest where you could use PLEX to more or less buy hotel, beers ect. beside pay to play the game.
It doesn't matter what you see PLEX as. It is not real money. You paid your real money for a digital item. The real money is gone from the equation. CCP is allowing you to use a digital item to pay for real-world goods and services... except here's the catch.
You're not actually paying for anything with that PLEX. You're giving that digital item to CCP who is then issuing you credit for those goods and services. Buying beer? CCP pays for the beer. Buying tickets? CCP pays for the tickets.
PLEX is not real money. It's even legally defined as not being real money. The real money exits the equation when you exchange it for the digital item called PLEX which has no real-world value.
For godsakes, you're a human aren't you? Use your higher brain functions. This is all so easy to understand if you stop and actually think. |
De'Veldrin
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
2816
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Posted - 2014.08.11 13:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Just my opinion here:
First, allowing PLEX to be undocked with and used in scams is a can of worms that CCP, frankly, should never have opened. Regardless of the reality of the situation (they're in game items, they have no cash value, etc etc), the fact is that many people see them as directly related to (if not the same as) Real MoniesGäó. And this is what leads us to threads like this - people that wouldn't bat an eye at destroying billions of ISK worth of ships, fittings, and ammo can become downright discontented when Real MoniesGäó appear to be involved.
The real problem here, is of course, that it's probably going to be impossible for CCP to put that genie back in the bottle. If you really want to white knight for the little guy, teach them how the contract system works and how to read and understand a contract completely. Then they'll be able to spot the scams and avoid the issue.
Also, this:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote: PLEX is not real money. It's even legally defined as not being real money. The real money exits the equation when you exchange it for the digital item called PLEX which has no real-world value.
Teach the new people this - put it at the top of rookie chat. Put it on the plex purchase page (if it's not there already). Everytime you buy a plex in game, put it in a modal pop up box. Put it in the damned show info page for the PLEX. De'Veldrin's Corallary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
438
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Posted - 2014.08.11 13:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
PLEX is not real money. It's even legally defined as not being real money. The real money exits the equation when you exchange it for the digital item called PLEX which has no real-world value.
It has a real-world value when you can use it to pay for a service / game you enjoy and else cannot afford. Some people work hours upon hours every day in game, just to gather the ISK to be able to enjoy next month with their friends.
I pay for my account all of them, and i have no issues seeing the scam.
I do see the problem with null people who have lost sov not being able to set up plex contracts, but at least make the UI more bullitproff. The you give item, are tones out, and not all bright and easy to see.
All im saying i rather see people stay in game, instead of a scam which can direct impact on whether they can play the game or not.
If you get gankked in a freighter and lose billions, or lose a titan, at least you can log in the day after. Nisroc Angels - The Obsidian Front Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
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Pelorios
Pelorios Industries
4
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Posted - 2014.08.11 14:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ynot Eyob wrote:.... but at least make the UI more bullitproff. The you give item, are tones out, and not all bright and easy to see.
honestly I almost fell for one myself the other day. *if* I had a PLEX and *if* I was in a hurry, i would have been crying my eyes out.
And it wasn't cheapstuff like PLEX for PLEX +30mil isk... it was like x item (worth something like 10mil) for 0isk against PLEX!!!
I must admit if it wasn't for the 0isk cost I wouldn't have scrolled down to see that I would potentially would have lost a PLEX
maybe it can't be put back in the can.. then what? Sadly all I can say is ..its EvE.
and Owen..it wasn't sarcasm ...if I read you right.
I wouldn't have a problem to tell you if it was. I believe that it was you that read me wrong in the first place. Instead of calling you illiterate which seems to be popular in the forums, I just tried to explain what I meant. The TL;DR coz I just wanna get off this thread..maybe I'll manage it this time
Size matters.
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Pelorios
Pelorios Industries
4
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Posted - 2014.08.11 14:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ynot Eyob wrote:.... but at least make the UI more bullitproff. The you give item, are tones out, and not all bright and easy to see.
honestly I almost fell for one myself the other day. *if* I had a PLEX and *if* I was in a hurry, i would have been crying my eyes out.
And it wasn't cheapstuff like PLEX for PLEX +30mil isk... it was like x item (worth something like 10mil) for 0isk against PLEX!!!
I must admit if it wasn't for the 0isk cost I wouldn't have scrolled down to see that I would potentially would have lost a PLEX
maybe it can't be put back in the can.. then what? Sadly all I can say is ..its EvE.
and Owen..it wasn't sarcasm ...if I read you right.
I wouldn't have a problem to tell you if it was. I believe that it was you that read me wrong in the first place. Instead of calling you illiterate which seems to be popular in the forums, I just tried to explain what I meant. The TL;DR coz I just wanna get off this thread..maybe I'll manage it this time
Size matters.
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De'Veldrin
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
2817
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Posted - 2014.08.11 14:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ynot Eyob wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
PLEX is not real money. It's even legally defined as not being real money. The real money exits the equation when you exchange it for the digital item called PLEX which has no real-world value.
It has a real-world value when you can use it to pay for a service / game you enjoy and else cannot afford. Some people work hours upon hours every day in game, just to gather the ISK to be able to enjoy next month with their friends.
The fact that it has value does not make it money. Chicken poop and tomatos also have real world value. They are not money.
De'Veldrin's Corallary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
582
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 14:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
If your finances are so tight that you can't afford to spend $15 once and then PLEX your account the next month with a better understanding of EVE contracts then perhaps playing an MMO isn't the best use of your time. Perhaps putting in a few extra hours at work, looking for a better job, or going over your monthly budget and cutting out some unnecessary expenses would be a better use of your time. Honestly, $15 isn't that much money unless you are living in poverty. And I have seen people in that situation waste far more than $15 on far dumber things than an MMO subscription. |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
396
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 14:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
Think of the scammers as the wolves of EVE. Like the wolves they keep the game healthy and interesting. Those who fall for scams like this AND rage quit over it, don't belong in New Eden in the first place. They're sick animals which fall behind and get eaten by wolves, leaving the rest of the herd healthier and stronger. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2397
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 14:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ynot Eyob wrote:It has a real-world value when you can use it to pay for a service / game you enjoy and else cannot afford.
NO. IT DOES NOT. |
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