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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kitchie
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:08:00 -
[91]
When I first started playing, I assumed you only warped to 15 km because warp targeting was inaccurate, therefore you could warp within 15km of a BM but anywhere within a 15km diameter, sometimes before the BM, sometimes beyond or to the side.... If it was randomly within 15km, Instas wouldn't work...
As for keeping travel time fast.... a skill that allowed you to make multiple jumps? +1 per level so that at level 5, you could warp 6 jumps (overall warp time being the same though) ..... Doesn't really fit in with gate physics though (Chain Gate Skill?)....
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:14:00 -
[92]
"Haha! Yeah I want more people to gank and kill! You caught me sherlock congratulations! YARRR! How could I ever have hoped to get past you in the first place!"
Pretty much confirmed what i said thanks! Aka I have no rebuttle so i'll just sluff it off. Oh wait i am sure you are some grand warrior! Yes all mighty champion of challenging and difficult pvp!
Instead of whining endlessly like a child how about come to grips with the fact your NOT SUPPOSED to be able to kill every dam FARKING thing that passes the gate you suddenly decided to claim ownership off? All the while maintaining the safety of being able to warp your arse out safely before you get killed when it looks bad? I can see how it troubles you how you can;t kill every noob your corp declares war on in empire...
Hey wait your MR bad arse are'nt you... why are you even in EMPIRE? Opps yea carebear supreme.
Again your just the typical carebear pvp type. You wanna kill people who present no threat to you, and heaven forbid they have a chance to get away. Tell ya what you want pvp and corp wars go fight somewhere where you're at risk and the peopel your fighting are ready and willing to fight back!
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Peachy Peachpants
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:15:00 -
[93]
Nanobotter please stop. I can't take anymore :( You're griefing me.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:28:00 -
[94]
How to put this nicely?
Learn to catch ships warping away from the gates. I mean damn, a hauler or battleship takes it's sweet time warping off from a gate. More than enough time for a MWDing frig/cruiser to ram it and screw up it's warp long enough for the BS ment to tank the sentries to get points on the target. Also, I totaly fail to see the logic in removeing instas and then putting them right back in with 0km warpin from the gate or some goofball skill that everyone and all their pets will train strait to level 5 ASAP even if it is rank 20.
I'm hardly saying that instas are or are not a issue. Just with the current game mechanics it'll be hard to remove them w/o totaly scewing the ballance between hunter and prey.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:29:00 -
[95]
"It's way way way too easy to avoid a fight as things stand, and with cloaks exacerbating the problem we see situations where it's extremely hard to stop an experienced player who knows what he's doing, even if you have 20-30 people hunting / gate camping just for him.
It's unbalanced. Instas suck."
Actually the problem is it is way way way to easy to kill ships not set up for pvp combat, and way way way to easy to outnumber travelers when you wanna camp a gate. The fact that people even use 20-30 people to hunt or camp a gate says how pathetic the lot of you supposed pvpers have gotten.
It is unbalanced. Ganks suck.
PEople need to get a pair and stop ganking and actually go engage in BATTLE if they want to fight. There are loads of corps/alliances out there and you know where they live go fight them instead of being cheezy easy possies and camping gates and hunting scragglers at belts.
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Reithan
Caldari Dark Planet Ventures
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:33:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Maya Rkell "warp a little closer to the gate"
Useless. If they're sitting on the gate, or sniping, then comming out a little closer, especially with loading time/lag and landing outside insta range usually means death even for the fastest ships in Eve.
So, in your opinion, there should be NO risk in travel whatsoever? Even though the Devs have already stated they want to punch up travel risk a bit?
Quote:
"...skill"
Becomes mandatory before any serious corp will touch you for lowsec/0.0 work, and it lets you warp EVERYWHERE at 0km.
Mandatory's a VERY strong word. Not EVERYONE uses instas, and many people who use instas, do so only because of the simplicity and ease of doing so.
Quote:
"...module"
Is absolutely mandatory for any serious 0.0 or even lowsec travel, except for 200km pirate snipers - you might as well remove the slots from the ships, allow 0km warps and nerf the pirate snipers.
It is no sort of reasonable soloution to selectively nerf ships to do basic, CORE game functions. This is no sort of comprimise, it's full-on nerf to every ship in the game and drastically unbalances it.
If the new slots have to be used for it, then I'd rather NOT have the new slots and just give people 0km warps. Same difference, because they are absolutely and totally ALLWAYS mandatory. (Warps to Coverts and so on MUST behave in the same way - NO breaching of the 15km area arround gates without these!)
You could say the same thing about WCS...
Quote:
"Instas destroy the speed difference..."
Untrue. When this was statted out, the actual percentage differences in travel time for insta vs no insta travel remained remarkably consistant. A smaller, more agile ship DOES travel quicker, and the claim that less agile ships somehow get an unfair advantage from them is completely incorrect - it MATTERS! (And agility and ship speed are interconnected heavily)
I don't see how that can be true...if a ship take X% time to align, Y% time to approach a gate and Z% time to jump, completely removing Y means that for every ship that has a slower Y you just removed a portion of the aadvantage of being fast, as Z should remain constant...
Quote: "Ban 90% of the playerbase..."
Hi Reithan!
Hi...I didn't say ban anyone...yet. I said just rule instas as an exploit...that way people stop using them. And if they DON'T stop using them after being told not to, well then they deserve a ban.
Quote:
"Make you make your own instas..."
No, this isn't a "soloution", it's an nerf attempt and forces people to spend week and weeks getting instas for the region before they can be effective. Moreover, you CAN'T get them for where they are truly needed, hence nullifying instas as a factor and making this very little different in practice from "remove instas outright"
I think I see the problem here. You're confusing the definition of the word 'effective'.
Quote: ef+fec+tive P Pronunciation Key (-fktv) adj. Having an intended or expected effect. Producing a strong impression or response; striking: gave an effective performance as Othello. Operative; in effect: The law is effective immediately. Existing in fact; actual: a decline in the effective demand. Prepared for use or action, especially in warfare.
A strong INTENDED or EXPECTED effect.
It's already been said by the devs that instas are NOT intended or expected gameplay. Effective does not = untouchable. Get over it.
Quote:
"Warp to a ship..." *clipped for length*
Yeah, all teamwork is unfair, in fact, let's remove corporations, the ability to haul ore for other people, gangs, logistics, and every other teamwork element. Cuz other people's friends helping them is unfair. wah. [/sarcasm]
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:34:00 -
[97]
"Nanobotter please stop. I can't take anymore :( You're griefing me."
Bwahahaa, yes because I provided actual reasons why instas or something like insta's ( being able to manually warp to 0km works also and better imho ) still need to exist in eve. Anyrate my point stands until attackers don;t have such a large advantage in combat instas and local need to stay otherwise everything and everyone are simply sheep to be farmed by those who choose to travel around in the insane safety and riskfree enviroment of a blob be it a large or small one. EvE is no different than any other pvp mmo i played there is a segment of players who want EZ mode pvp where they can create a scenario with very high chance for victory and extremely low chance for defeat which has nothing to do with skill of play.
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Peachy Peachpants
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:38:00 -
[98]
You are truely a master of arguments Nanobotter. I hereby renounce my faith and fully support instajumps.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:38:00 -
[99]
the problem with instas is that they cause lag, and are FRREAKIN BIATCH TO COPY.
remove them alltogether near warpable objects like gates etc., and give us a warp to 1km or even 0km option plzzz - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Binary Adder
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:42:00 -
[100]
Let me start by saying I like instas. I enjoy buying low, moving the goods, and selling high. I don't mind plying my trade in high security space. I have been podded by gate campers in a newb friget, shuttle, and a couple of mammoths, all in "high security" space, it is part of the game and it would be a really boring game with out that aspect.
For me, it would not be a show stopper to have instas go away for jump gates provided it did not break the rest of the book mark system. My idea to do this is to have the jump gates orbit a point in space (the orbit would be 3d not planer) with a radius of around 30 km. The orbital velocites of each gate would be different but generally slow (10 m/s). The autopilot / jump to mechancs would work by frist getting the gates current location and then jumping to 15 km of the gate. If you use an old insta you might get lucky and stop on the gate or you could miss by up to 45 km. Statistically, however; you are gonna miss by more than 15 km if you have no knowledge of where the gate is relative to your insta.
If instas at gates are defeated then I also think ônon-combatö ships (barges, freighters, etc) deserve more protection from gate campers in high security space. My suggestion is that these non-combat ships be given access to an extremely long range 100% effective targeting jammer. Access would require a "High Slot" ôjammer keyö with very high cpu requirements. Non combat ships would be given a -99.5% drop in cpu requirements similar to strip mining turrets and mining barges. A mammoth for instance would be able to jam two ships as it has two high slots. I call it a ôJammer Keyö because the Jammer itself would be part of the gate (and perhaps stations), and the person with the key would need to be within 15km of the gate to use it. Gates (and perhaps stations) in 0.0 space would not be equipped with the jammer.
Jamming a ship with this device would not be considered hostile and would not flag the non combat ship for PvP, it is after all purly defensive (and the jamming beam is coming from the gate) and as someone pointed out when a Freighter meets a BS it is bang, bang, pod battle over in seconds no more Freighter.
For you pirates if you catch one of these ships in open space they will once again be helpless to your mighty guns. If you bring a several of your friends to the gate camping party one of you may still be able to fire away at your un-armed prey. That in turn may make more interesting PvP play as it is more interesting to hunt a large group of pirates than it is to hunt a lone shark.
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Malena Panic
Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:44:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Peachy Peachpants A single premise makes an argument? No wait. It doesn't.
Your steadfast refusal to address this particular premise - which you raised first, presumably because it's your strongest point - suggests that you would be equally unwilling to constructively address any others you may have raised. Maybe because you're not really here to have a dialog?
Look, if you're bored with Eve but don't want to talk about that's OK. I have a suggestion that might help you though. But you have to promise not to get mad.
Promise?
OK, here it is: join a roleplayer alliance! We are never bored, thanks to our frequent tea parties. Sometimes we even drink a different flavor of tea!
Have an open mind. Try it out. You might even like it!
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:54:00 -
[102]
I strongly endorse Reithan's counter arguements to Maya's claims, and thank him for saving me typing almost exactly the same thing.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Peachy Peachpants
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:56:00 -
[103]
Quote:
Your steadfast refusal to address this particular premise - which you raised first, presumably because it's your strongest point - suggests that you would be equally unwilling to constructively address any others you may have raised. Maybe because you're not really here to have a dialog?
You presume too much. And your steadfast refusal to address any other premise than this suggests that you are incapable of doing so. Maybe because you're not here to have a dialog?
Quote: Look, if you're bored with Eve but don't want to talk about that's OK. I have a suggestion that might help you though. But you have to promise not to get mad.
Promise?
OK, here it is: join a roleplayer alliance! We are never bored, thanks to our frequent tea parties. Sometimes we even drink a different flavor of tea!
Have an open mind. Try it out. You might even like it!
Yawn.
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Abaddon Nostros
Minmatar Sisters of EVE - Divine Intervention
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Posted - 2006.08.04 19:40:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists the problem with instas is that they ..... are FRREAKIN BIATCH TO COPY.
QFT
Originally by: K'reemy G'udness Oh, you wacky carebears. Stay in 0.9, where your biggest problem is an ore thief who calls himself mayor.
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Kyrgyz
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Posted - 2006.08.04 19:50:00 -
[105]
I like the idea of getting rid of instas around jump gates and going to a module type scenario where a "navigation" module allows players to warp closer to the target, but no closer than 5 km with a tech 2 "navigation" module. Lower value "navigation" modules would place you within 7-8 km of the jump gates. Of course the "navigation" module would have to be activated upon each warp, no AFK use of it.
In conjunction with getting rid of instas around jump gates, I propose a jump gate zone of disruption effect on targeting and weapons. In other words, the game story would be that since jump gates are bending the fabric of space itself, there is a secondary effect within 1000 km of the jump gates that slows down weapons fire, acts as a sensor dampner and lowers the percentage chance of locking on targets. This would increase the survival rate of players who are attacked at the gates, while at the same time giving those camping the gates an opportunity to destroy the travelers. The details of this could be worked out to give a balance to jump gate combat where properly fitted ships had a decent chance of making it to the gate. The effect would not apply to Concord, customs, etc.
This proposal would still allow bms for misc other purposes as some players have mentioned.
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Shamis Orzoz
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2006.08.04 21:02:00 -
[106]
Everybody with half a brain, that is carrying anything of value uses insta's. So you have to get them on the OTHER side of the gate while aligning to warp. So allowing a warp to 0km option doesn't hurt most pirates, or PvP'ers at all.
A warp to 0km option would be a great temporary fix. Within 48 hours most of the playerbase will GLADLY delete all of their crappy insta's.
If CCP ever comes up with a better solution...great. But in the meantime, the pathetic server needs any help it can get.
Shamis
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Sorja
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.04 21:26:00 -
[107]
I don't think it has been said before: why not have warp to 0km only available with a module that increases your ship signature by 50,000 %
This way, instas can be removed and those who want to travel fast still can... at the risk of being insta-locked on the other side of the gate.
I also think instas ruin the game, I'd like more opportunities for hunting and having fun in small numbers. EVE is now gangbang online, not good.
____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships |
RaThlan Naaoor
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Posted - 2006.08.04 21:53:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Peachy Peachpants You are truely a master of arguments Nanobotter. I hereby renounce my faith and fully support instajumps.
I don't know about Nanobotter's arguments, but I'd be happy if you just didn't have pants that were so.....peachy(?).
Back to the continued whining about instas/not instas. To quote Monty Python "Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who...."
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2006.08.04 21:53:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Fistandilus Oh, and as a final note, to all you people that can't respond to posts without being rude, insulting or getting defensive, GROW UP, THIS IS JUST A GAME.
there IS only one slight problem ...
this is the ONLY game worth paying and playing for WHY? Because ccp did grasp the very essence of brutality and harshness. It is just that WE teh playerbase can't handle it
It is not entirely CCP's fault that eve will fail if it evolves like it did in the past. They simply realised that they can achieve more income if they try to please carebears and hardcore players ... every change we get these days is a compromise, every change is made so it appeals to both player types ... a genious marketing strategy isnt it?
But still WE want it that way so we cant blame ccp, can we?
so as a final note:
pls dont ruin the only game on this whole planet which is so ****ing close to beeing awesome that I could cry each day that it isnt ...
It's like trying to catch a rope which is just a few centimeters (inches)away and the only obstacle hindering you is just too big (carebears) to remove.
Greetings Grim |
Ismern
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.08.04 22:15:00 -
[110]
All I see here are the incoherent griefings of a crappy ganker who can't form a comprehensible argument.
All I hear is "you are stupid and you fail."
CCP will come up with their own solution to instas. They don't need to hear you whine about it. The topic has been talked to death and no new input will be seen in this thread.
----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken.
Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left. |
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Darkrydar
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 22:20:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Darkrydar on 04/08/2006 22:23:07 I have a simple solution.
CCP can set a client to only be allowed a maximum of say 25 bookmarks per character. Fleets could still move fast by using gang member slingshots (like the old days). Players could still have instadocks nd jumps in a few selective areas of choice. Additionally, you can have your safespots and can depot bookmarks. Players would just need to be selective in what they have.
If you want to travel fast, fly a faster ship or fit more speed modules.
What drawbacks could this suggestion have?
Add: This could be done with the redesign of the sensorboosters as well to reduce lame sniperfests.
Also, could the 'waaa you want more ganks' crowd please give it a rest. This has NOTHING to do with that. This has to do with the overall performace of the game moving forward.
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Darkrydar
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 22:26:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Instas break the game quite badly, why do you think one can't set warp to distance to 0 instead of 15 ? It's because your ship's speed is actually supposed to matter when it comes to your safety in low sec. The devs didn't expect people to exploit it and haven't done much about it (other than interdictors and mobile warp disruptors which are pretty much just bandaids).
As things stand your velocity in a travel setup is for the most part an insignificant factor, agility matters quite a lot as do WCS and your bookmarks.
It's way way way too easy to avoid a fight as things stand, and with cloaks exacerbating the problem we see situations where it's extremely hard to stop an experienced player who knows what he's doing, even if you have 20-30 people hunting / gate camping just for him.
It's unbalanced. Instas suck.
QFT
Hopefully the dev's come to their senses soon (like the lvl4's post-exodus) and find and adopt a final solution to this.
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Guillame Herschel
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Posted - 2006.08.04 22:36:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 04/08/2006 22:36:38
Originally by: Peachy Peachpants
No one says remove bookmarks. Instajumps are the problem. There are many ways to remove instajumps while preserving the original intented use of bookmarks.
So yeah, now that we have that out of the way, do you have any arguments with substance?
Yeah. It's absurd that a spaceship pilot cannot turn a dial to 20 AU, point his ship in some direction, press a button and warp 20 AU in that direction.
Bookmarks are absurd from the beginning. It's a space ship, not Internet Explorer.
So now that we've established your fervent support for the absurd, do you have any arguments with substance?
(edit to add rolly eyes for those with defective sarcasm detectors)
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Red Ochre
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Posted - 2006.08.04 22:40:00 -
[114]
this thread is so pointless, op, do you ever search before posting on something that has a hundred threads already?
and with the multitude of responses to this useless thread and the hundreds of others, what do you want CCP to do? remove the BOOKMARK function? thats what they are friends, not "instas" not "get away quick tickets" they are BOOKMARKS. so get off the leet speak term or next cool thing term kick.
To the op, CCP has already indicated they are doing something for the hundreds of thousands of BOOKMARKS, clogging the database, so guess what op, wait for it.
your silly ideas or the multitude of silly ideas to make "your" style of play the next "big thing" isnt going to fly.
CCP has the plan, read the blogs, the plan will be implemented.......and get your hands off your C.R.O.T.C.H! |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2006.08.04 22:52:00 -
[115]
again it is not ccps fault... that instas wont be removed ever
it's our own, there is noone else to blame but us
conclusion: we sukk and it's a shame that we do
Greetings Grim |
Firebyrd
Gallente Crooked River Productions
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Posted - 2006.08.04 22:59:00 -
[116]
The only instas i have used is 0.0, as well as making mining locations, and missions, i dont use them in empire, and even tho CCP has stated numerous times Instas and BMs was not intended to be used as they r, but as they said in the past there is no good plan to replace them with....the main damage they do is increase load on the servers
And removing them will create a sellers market, due to everything going up,I.E longer travel, greater risk to get them to other people, even the longer time it will take miners to dock or get close to the fields.....
one suggestion that might fit is this if instas r removed then warp in points definately have to be reduced, so here would be my suggestion:
7.5km warp in, with a Computer Jammer, this mod would act like a webber, or target jammer, except it would cause the computer to "lag" sorta speak and cant comunicate with gate, there by not allowing the gate to activate, this mod would create a timer, anywhere from 5-25 seconds, not allowing the gate to open for the 5-30 seconds, and put a 5-10 second delay(countdown to activation of mod) on it so that agressed player can reach gate(if equiped for Gate running)before agressor can activate it, but a computer booster like a sensor booster could be fitted as a counter, like a back up system when main comp "lags" ----------------------------------------------- In the End , there can be only 1
Learn from yesterday, that u may be stronger tomorrow
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Miyau
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.08.04 23:32:00 -
[117]
I like the way instas reward you for preparation. If you spend the time to get or make instas for a region, you're rewarded by safety/speed when travelling.
Whatever the insta solution, it shouldn't involve a warp to at 0km option on every gate/station in the game. That's far too soft and anti-PVP.
I'd like some way of "calibrating" to a gate/station (say, by visiting it). When calibrated, you can warp to that gate at 5km. Otherwise, you arrive at 15km. The number of warp destinations you can calibrate to could be limited by a skill. |
JA RULER
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Posted - 2006.08.04 23:37:00 -
[118]
IM told that they wil remove intas but there wil be a skill involved and the higher the skill means the better chance u have of getting right in gate.
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DropZone 187
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Posted - 2006.08.04 23:48:00 -
[119]
Yawn.
The issue at hand has nothing to due with the gameplay - it has to do with the fact that the current bm system has put the entire game at risk to a basic denial of service attack. We are already experience the first hand results of the database running out of room. If it is isn't fixed soon, someone bitter with a bone to pick is just going to macro bm copying and knock out nodes.
So, the problem being is that each bm is a unique entry in the database. Regardless of what kind of control/restriction you put on their creation, the problem still exists.
Solutions - stop having them as unique db entries. Can be accomplished in a few fashions:
1. Make them client side. Boo hoo to the self proclaiming experts who will scream about 'abuse' as people will change the co-ordinates on their local machine. Snore, PKI/digital signing/MD hash takes care of that. 2. Make them generic so they can be hashed/cached efficiently in the database. 3. Remove them totally.
Pick something out of the above and work it out from there. This isn't about what is best for pvp'ers, gankers, griefers, carebears, monkeys or camel herders - it is about keeping the game going without risk from an 'oopsie' design flaw that reared its ugly head.
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Arcsine
Minmatar Perturbation And Nuance Technology
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Posted - 2006.08.04 23:59:00 -
[120]
There is nothing wrong with having instas. I can't figure out why people think it is a problem, unless they can't camp gates and shoot people. For crying out loud, give it a rest already.
Love, Arcsine baby
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