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Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
303
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Posted - 2014.10.22 00:27:12 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to suggest that CCP (Fozzie) revisit the warp speeds of battle ships and battle cruisers in the game.
The changes to buff the warp speed of the smaller ships in the game was I believe well received generally and added some fun and purpose to ships serving as speedy tackle to run down and grab ships as they made a run for it.
I pvp a great deal, primarily in low sec and we often formed gangs of mixed ship type fleets, mostly around what are now attack battle cruisers and battle ships with some fast tackle and force multiplying ships attached.
However post speed nerf to BS that is no longer the case, yes I realise that we can use ascendancy clones and warp speed low slot mods but this has in effect been a quite significant nerf to battleships i.e. no slave clones, reduction in rig or low slot options to just keep up with fleets. So much so that they seem to be a very rare sight in low sec these days.
Added to this the removal of many of the utility high slots it reduced the flxability of these ships, mega's in low sec are now a genuinely rare sight, they can be kited into the ground and can effectively never get away form anything if there is not a station near to hand. I cannot remember the last time I ran into a roaming BS gang. Blap dreds have also taken their toll.
With the proposed jump range reduction coming in phoebe and the hoped for increase in roaming gangs I want to put out a plea for an increase to 3.0 AU warp speed for all BS / BC's in the game.
Let the pilots make the choices to allow them rapid warp speed in these ships by using clones and fittings if they so chose but allow mixed ship type fleets to at least try and make a come back.
I remember the days or RR battleships gangs fondly, they are no longer possible for a variety of reasons, I get that it's more fun to just assign your drones to someone else but please CCP consider allowing BS / BC gangs the option to at least keep up with everyone else without gutting their fits or clone set choices.
Thanks
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HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
275
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Posted - 2014.10.22 01:01:43 -
[2] - Quote
No. The whole idea was that 3au/s wasn't the speed everything should go. |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
303
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Posted - 2014.10.22 01:36:54 -
[3] - Quote
I'm not asking for a nerf to all ships that go faster than 3.0 au. I am asking for the larger sub cap ships in the game to at least have parity so they dont get left behind.
Go on a roam with a BS in your gang if your not just sat on a titan and see how it goes.
By all means keep with the current speed for all of the other ships in the game but BS and BC should be roughly the same without gimping the fits on the ships.
Not asking for a nerf to cerptors or hacs or whatever, just a small buff to BS and BC's. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2942
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Posted - 2014.10.22 01:40:44 -
[4] - Quote
I'm going to say, as one who visits this forum multiple times throughout the day every day without fail, that this topic is very nearly done to death. OP didn't search, or searched and didn't care, or something of a similar nature.
baltec1 will probably be in here momentarily to mention about how battleships would be pretty broken if they warped faster than they already do. |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
303
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Posted - 2014.10.22 01:47:58 -
[5] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I'm going to say, as one who visits this forum multiple times throughout the day every day without fail, that this topic is very nearly done to death. OP didn't search, or searched and didn't care, or something of a similar nature.
baltec1 will probably be in here momentarily to mention about how battleships would be pretty broken if they warped faster than they already do.
With respect I did review much of the previous material, however things have just changed a little with the annoncements of he jump changes in Phoebe. BS fleets sitting on a titan may not be quite what they were, plus the noted reduction in this class of ships in low sec makes it a not unreasonalbe time to take a look.
Thanks
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5972
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Posted - 2014.10.22 02:45:43 -
[6] - Quote
Maraner wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I'm going to say, as one who visits this forum multiple times throughout the day every day without fail, that this topic is very nearly done to death. OP didn't search, or searched and didn't care, or something of a similar nature.
baltec1 will probably be in here momentarily to mention about how battleships would be pretty broken if they warped faster than they already do. With respect I did review much of the previous material, however things have just changed a little with the annoncements of he jump changes in Phoebe. BS fleets sitting on a titan may not be quite what they were, plus the noted reduction in this class of ships in low sec makes it a not unreasonalbe time to take a look. Thanks you can make them skip around like cruisers as is you just have to make sacrifices , i feel the pain but ffs this topic is realy tiring.
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2948
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Posted - 2014.10.22 02:48:10 -
[7] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:you can make them skip around like cruisers as is you just have to make sacrifices , i feel the pain but ffs this topic is realy tiring.
I'm not inclined to search for it at the moment, but didn't baltec say you can make a megathron warp around as if it were an assault frig?
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3875
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Posted - 2014.10.22 02:55:49 -
[8] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:baltec1 will probably be in here momentarily to mention about how battleships would be pretty broken if they warped faster than they already do. He does love his Hyperspacial rigs...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
140
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Posted - 2014.10.22 03:40:06 -
[9] - Quote
A single t1 hyperspatial rig brings a t1 BC to t1 cruiser speeds. Same relative thing with command ships and t2 cruiser fleets. This puts them in an interesting spot, as they are then able to stiffen a cruiser fleet without massively reducing its strategic modility, and still have their full complement of lows and implants, and almost their full complement of rigs and callibration for the t1 hulls.
Same thing for battleships, they can be pushed into a battlecruiser fleet with only align times reducing strategic mobility.
While I would like to see the lowslot modules buffed slightly, these ships are meant to be less roaming instruments of force projection than medium weight combatants, who cannot jump into every scrum unless they are already in the area. These two projection nerfs seem focused on making medium range strategy, such as pre-forming fleets and then using skirmish assets to catch and hold targets, divide forces into defensive and offensive capitals, and otherwise making straight blobbing less effective than a semi-organized or fully organized system, similar to a real military.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13696
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Posted - 2014.10.22 03:50:06 -
[10] - Quote
Maraner wrote:I
Go on a roam with a BS in your gang if your not just sat on a titan and see how it goes.
It goes just fine for me.
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Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
303
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Posted - 2014.10.22 03:59:39 -
[11] - Quote
For the first 9 years or so of the game everything warped at 3.0.
It was great to see the changes, many of them have been welcomed but this tends to homongenise fleets. I'm sure everyone loves to see 40 ishtars of d scan.
In low sec it's very much all about the nano / kite setups. You have to roam distances to try and get into fights sometimes, this is a huge pain in the ass with BS these days, or the compromise is very significant if you are in armor setups. PLus I used to like seeing fleets made of BS, BC's , cruisers and tackle. It was much much more interesting that a bunch of single ship type fleet comps.
If anything the changes to warp speed made this even worse, try going 10-15 jumps with a mixed ship type fleet, people get left behind very quickly.
You should not nerf something to then introduce modules and clone types to bring the balance back. It's like the nerf to drakes and canes and then the subsequent navy versions of the same BC's - not that you see those much either.
The MJD helped somewhat but I feel that they are a neglected ship type and are just left home to grow dust. The main issue is that they cannot keep up at all now.
Or if they are fit with go faster rigs or low slots they are gimped from the get go when the fight starts.
Those that live in 0.0 may not find being titan bridged a lot of fun following phoebe as you will have to fly you ships back to base unless you dont care about the jump fatigue. For those that live in low sec go out and look for a BS gang, good luck finding one.
A warp speed return to 3.0 would be a good start, to increase the use of these ships. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
140
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Posted - 2014.10.22 04:05:43 -
[12] - Quote
Maraner wrote:For the first 9 years or so of the game everything warped at 3.0.
It was great to see the changes, many of them have been welcomed but this tends to homongenise fleets. I'm sure everyone loves to see 40 ishtars of d scan.
In low sec it's very much all about the nano / kite setups. You have to roam distances to try and get into fights sometimes, this is a huge pain in the ass with BS these days, or the compromise is very significant if you are in armor setups. PLus I used to like seeing fleets made or cruisers, BS and BC's with tackle. It was much much more interesting that a bunch of single ship type fleet comps.
If anything the changes to warp speed made this even worse, try going 10-15 jumps with a mixed ship type fleet, people get left behind very quickly.
You should not nerf something to then introduce modules and clone types to bring the balance back. It's like the nerf to drakes and canes and then the subsequent navy versions of the same BC's - not that you see those much either.
The MJD helped somewhat but I feel that they are a neglected ship type and are just left home to grow dust. The main issue is that they cannot keep up at all now.
Or if they are fit with go faster rigs or low slots they are gimped from the get go when the fight starts.
Those that live in 0.0 may not find being titan bridged a lot of fun following phoebe as you will have to fly you ships back to base unless you dont care about the jump fatigue. For those that live in low sec go out and look for a BS gang, good luck finding one.
A warp speed return to 3.0 would be a good start, to increase the use of these ships.
This is called forcing strategic choices with tactical implications, and is meant to make these ships useful for hitting large structures, home systems, hunting capitals en masse and generally being the heaviest things used daily outside of sov warfare. and mostly kept close to home by this. These changes were intended to slow down roams and make people actually worry about warp speed. they added to the complexity in a manner which made sense and creates choices as to your preferred side of the equation. You obviously chose faster roams, and so left these ships behind, even with the option to bring them and know that each of your ships has superior firepower and tank.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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Sigras
Conglomo
962
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Posted - 2014.10.22 04:22:49 -
[13] - Quote
Battleships are slow defensive ships, Heavy assault cruisers are fast attack ships... perhaps instead of asking CCP to change their stats to do something outside of their role, you could use the ship for the role it was designed to fill. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13697
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Posted - 2014.10.22 04:26:01 -
[14] - Quote
So just to point out, the bulk of my Megathrons are faster than before the warp speed changes and all of them are perfectly capable of taking part in combat. Hitting cruiser warp speeds in a battleship is very easy and requires just one rig slot and a few implants. My more outlandish fit will fly as fast as an assault frigate and when in harpy fleet it leaves them all in the dust. Coupled with nano and you are getting into warp just as fast as cruisers too (I have no issues keeping up with frigates when aligning in fleets).
The warp speed changes are not just fine, they have added so much more fun for me.
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3875
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Posted - 2014.10.22 04:50:06 -
[15] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The warp speed changes are not just fine, they have added so much more fun for me. It's a fair point, but just a casual observation: A Megathron (and in particular, ships with high numbers of low slots) are more geared towards being able to reap the benefits from Prototype Hyperspacial modules and Hyperspacial rigs than say ships that typically sport fewer slots, ie: Caldari.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13697
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Posted - 2014.10.22 04:56:20 -
[16] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:The warp speed changes are not just fine, they have added so much more fun for me. It's a fair point, but just a casual observation: A Megathron (and in particular, ships with high numbers of low slots) are more geared towards being able to reap the benefits from Prototype Hyperspacial modules and Hyperspacial rigs than say ships that typically sport fewer slots, ie: Caldari.
My mission boat is a raven and (unsurprisingly) its got three t2 hyperspacials and a high grade implant set. It runs level 4s just as well as any normal raven but gets to save a lot of time in warping around
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3875
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:04:01 -
[17] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:My mission boat is a raven and (unsurprisingly) its got three t2 hyperspacials and a high grade implant set. It runs level 4s just as well as any normal raven but gets to save a lot of time in warping around I'm honestly not sure if the tradeoff in lost DPS is offset by the gain in mission completion. I guess it depends entirely on how many jumps are entailed for each mission. If I could trade two high slots in my Golem for two lows, I'd be a really, really happy camper...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13697
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:33:36 -
[18] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:My mission boat is a raven and (unsurprisingly) its got three t2 hyperspacials and a high grade implant set. It runs level 4s just as well as any normal raven but gets to save a lot of time in warping around I'm honestly not sure if the tradeoff in lost DPS is offset by the gain in faster mission travel. I guess it depends entirely on how many jumps are entailed per mission. If I could trade two high slots in my Golem for two lows, I'd be a really, really happy camper...
It's in gun boats that the big gains are. If you are blitzing missions then with most you will spend most of the time in warp with a BS.
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
178
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:46:30 -
[19] - Quote
Even if they warped faster, they would still be useless on roams.
BC and BS rebalancing was a catastrophic failure. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13697
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:51:46 -
[20] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Even if they warped faster, they would still be useless on roams.
BC and BS rebalancing was a catastrophic failure.
That simply isnt true. My cynable mega for example will keep up with the cruisers while sporting ample tank and the full firepower of a blaster mega and the ability to apply it.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1621
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:51:55 -
[21] - Quote
CCP have admitted BC's & BS are in a bad position in the meta atm. But aren't likely to increase their speed to put them back in a decent spot. More likely to hit other solutions (Like BS EHP climbing a lot to bridge the cap between sub cap & cap, rather than being barely higher than Cruisers) |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
140
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:52:30 -
[22] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:Even if they warped faster, they would still be useless on roams.
BC and BS rebalancing was a catastrophic failure.
I'm not so sure about this. If you manage to get these wonderful pieces of concentrated combat power into a fight with a reasonable tackle group already on field, they will cut down most opposition in short order. Now, if you want to kite or try to roam without tackle, then you deserve what you get.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
140
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Posted - 2014.10.22 05:53:25 -
[23] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Even if they warped faster, they would still be useless on roams.
BC and BS rebalancing was a catastrophic failure. That simply isnt true. My cynable mega for example will keep up with the cruisers while sporting ample tank and the full firepower of a blaster mega and the ability to apply it.
Rigs and Implants only? or are you willing to share this setup with us?
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
140
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Posted - 2014.10.22 06:01:02 -
[24] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:CCP have admitted BC's & BS are in a bad position in the meta atm. But aren't likely to increase their speed to put them back in a decent spot. More likely to hit other solutions (Like BS EHP climbing a lot to bridge the cap between sub cap & cap, rather than being barely higher than Cruisers)
Combat battlecruisers have very little which sets them apart from standard cruisers other than being slower and a bit heavier. They also break from the niche of a true battlecruiser by running medium sized guns. There is not a good parallel to these cruisers, as the current "cruisers" are mostly built around the sort of gank/tank/speed balance expected of heavy cruisers IRL, which means that combat battlecruisers don't have a niche that has been defined and gamed out by the wonderful community of real military folks and wargamers.
Attack battlecruisers are in a much better place, being able to run from anything that can out gun them, put on a decent tank (not great, but not something most cruisers can alpha in small gang) and having WHOOPING DPS for their size and investment. They are so far skewed towards aggressive power projection that they would be the face of it if people would just get over the fact they can't run slaves with them.
(Battlecruisers came about IRL because there was a limit on the number of actual battleships different groups were allowed to build and get into action, thus started the practice of putting a battery of battleship guns on hulls with displacement in the range defined as cruiser class, leading to the "battle cruiser" as a tool of aggressive power projection)
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
30
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Posted - 2014.10.22 06:05:18 -
[25] - Quote
-.- again such an thread guys please use the search funktion and if there a thread in the last 2 weeks. Please don-Št write a new one.
Battleships are large ships which suppose to be slow and slow does not mean 3 AU. The target of the warpspeed rebalance was to make big ships slower and little frigs faster.
not supported
-1 |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3875
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Posted - 2014.10.22 06:07:25 -
[26] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:CCP have admitted BC's & BS are in a bad position in the meta atm. I'm not necessarily the sure needs to be adjusted, but they definitely need to look at the DPS and EHP for battlecruisers both battlecruisers and battleships could stand a permanent warp core bonus.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13697
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Posted - 2014.10.22 06:21:51 -
[27] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:baltec1 wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Even if they warped faster, they would still be useless on roams.
BC and BS rebalancing was a catastrophic failure. That simply isnt true. My cynable mega for example will keep up with the cruisers while sporting ample tank and the full firepower of a blaster mega and the ability to apply it. Rigs and Implants only? or are you willing to share this setup with us?
At work so not for a while. The fit is likely floating around the internet somewhere.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
141
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Posted - 2014.10.22 06:31:31 -
[28] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:James Baboli wrote:baltec1 wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Even if they warped faster, they would still be useless on roams.
BC and BS rebalancing was a catastrophic failure. That simply isnt true. My cynable mega for example will keep up with the cruisers while sporting ample tank and the full firepower of a blaster mega and the ability to apply it. Rigs and Implants only? or are you willing to share this setup with us? At work so not for a while. The fit is likely floating around the internet somewhere. roger, will GIMGDS then, but it does not show up in your losses on battleclinic.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13697
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Posted - 2014.10.22 06:33:22 -
[29] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:baltec1 wrote:James Baboli wrote:baltec1 wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:Even if they warped faster, they would still be useless on roams.
BC and BS rebalancing was a catastrophic failure. That simply isnt true. My cynable mega for example will keep up with the cruisers while sporting ample tank and the full firepower of a blaster mega and the ability to apply it. Rigs and Implants only? or are you willing to share this setup with us? At work so not for a while. The fit is likely floating around the internet somewhere. roger, will GIMGDS then, but it does not show up in your losses on battleclinic.
Im not sure I have ever lost one to be honest.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
141
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Posted - 2014.10.22 06:35:16 -
[30] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Im not sure I have ever lost one to be honest.
Well, there goes the easy way to find it.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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