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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
834
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Posted - 2015.07.01 02:09:37 -
[1] - Quote
Ok, this is kind of an odd suggestion...
I've always wondered why pirate ships look exactly like one ship, but have no resemblance to the other ship in the equation.
So this is a suggestion for new pirate faction models that look like the two ships got smashed together.
IE - the rattlesnake Cross between a domi and a scorpion, but it retained the scorpion model. Rip the tail and wings off the scorpion and glue them to the Domi, smooth out some rough edges, give it a little paint, and boom - you have something that looks like some pirates did some jury rigging..
I mean, you may end up with some f'd up designs, but what more would you expect from peg legged, eye patch wearing, bearded swashbucklers? |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
715
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Posted - 2015.07.01 02:50:59 -
[2] - Quote
I hate to say this but this is not a feature or idea.
Once upon a time there was a small business called CCP. They had an idea of an online gaming sandbox. Back in the dark ages nobody has ever heard of them until they said 'screw this, we are doing this'. And they did. Few years later they launched an online sandbox game called EVE. Unfortunately for them they were very few and everything was expensive for them - art designers and such. The pirate faction ships are from that time.
The End (not of the world of warcr- errm EVE.).
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1214
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Posted - 2015.07.01 03:00:27 -
[3] - Quote
Pirate corporations are not some disorganized bunch of thugs hanging out on the beach, drinking rum, and chasing orangutans. They are large, sophisticated corporations who specialize in stealing other technology for their own nefarious ends. Why would their ships look like someone literally crossed a Dominix and a Scorpion? You think they just take two ships, mash them together, say, "add some wingy bits here," and call it good?*
* - this IS actually how Minmatar ships are built.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
834
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Posted - 2015.07.01 03:28:36 -
[4] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Pirate corporations are not some disorganized bunch of thugs hanging out on the beach, drinking rum, and chasing orangutans. They are large, sophisticated corporations who specialize in stealing other technology for their own nefarious ends. Why would their ships look like someone literally crossed a Dominix and a Scorpion? You think they just take two ships, mash them together, say, "add some wingy bits here," and call it good?*
* - this IS actually how Minmatar ships are built.
Lol, on the contrary, Pirates (of the colonial days) were actually quite well organized.
However, they did some what smash their ships together to make a better one.
If, for instance, their mast was damaged during combat, they would take it from the other ship. They would often take stronger cannons, and quite literally mix and match all the best of both ships. Or, they would simply take the other ship because theirs was too damaged or just crap...
Anyway, back on topic, the point in saying that is to say that, crossing two ships to make one is actually quite a feat of engineering. It also makes sense lore wise. You have bays, holds, capacitors, etc etc. you can't just take a scorpion and give it all the stats of a Domi without taking portions of the Domi.
Like I said, they may not look pretty, but then again, neither do t3 cruisers. They also don't need to be aerodynamic, as its space.. All they need is a structurally sound hull...
Having ships that are a cross of two ships, and look as such is not only a marvel of engineering, but shows how much of a threat the pirate factions are, if they're capable of reverse engineering, cross engineering, advanced mechanics, and structural engineering capabilities... |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
205
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Posted - 2015.07.01 03:53:44 -
[5] - Quote
Part of the lore hints that the Scorpion is a modified Rattlesnake, not vice versa.
Angel ships have unique hulls. Sansha ships have unique hulls, as well as two-thirds of the Blood Raiders' lineup. The only ones that don't have truly unique hulls are the Serpentis and the Guristas. |
FireFrenzy
Satan's Unicorns
504
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Posted - 2015.07.01 06:34:06 -
[6] - Quote
And based on the bonusses its not even odd that a bhaal would be an "all in optimised version" off the geddon's design... |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
834
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Posted - 2015.07.01 06:47:49 -
[7] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:And based on the bonusses its not even odd that a bhaal would be an "all in optimised version" off the geddon's design...
The a Bhaal does make sense, though, I wonder if that's a knock on how insanely efficient the geddon is at PVP compared to other t1 BS hulls... I guess it's fair though, as it's somewhat lacking in the PVE department. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1542
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Posted - 2015.07.01 07:45:32 -
[8] - Quote
Rattlesnake Description wrote:In the time-honored tradition of pirates everywhere, Korako GÇÿRabbit' Kosakami shamelessly stole the idea of the Scorpion-class battleship and put his own spin on it. The result: the fearsome Rattlesnake, flagship of any large Gurista attack force. There are, of course, also those who claim things were the other way around; that the notorious silence surrounding the Scorpion's own origins is, in fact, an indication of its having been designed by Kosakami all along.
Guristas Pirates wrote:All Guristas vessels appear based on those of the Caldari Navy, although the Guristas themselves claim that it was in fact the Caldari Navy who stole the design for their Scorpion from the Guristas Rattlesnake. Suffice to say the Guristas equivalents of each vessel are offensively superior vessels whom fit perfectly within their aggressive tactics, yet are able to withstand quite a bit of punishment. EVE Online Wiki
Suffice to say that not the Rattle -- if any ship at all -- should change but the Scorpion. It is also a widely known fact among players who actually pay attention to the lore and background story of EVE that especially the Guristas have a particular perverse delight in mocking the Caldari Navy by stealing/using their own ship designs against them. It is thus illogical to change hull designs for the Caldari/Guristas for existing hulls beyond color patterns. New hulls could be argued about in ways that Guristas want to demonstrate their own capabilities as ship designers, but that's about it in terms of acceptable hull design alterations.
As for the Serpentis: They are a corporation excelling in R&D for boosters and other mind and capability expanding drugs. They have the Angel as guardians of their installations. For large parts, they do not need special ship designs as the standard Gallente Hulls with some modifications of the traits work perfectly fine for their purposes. Wasting money on something they do not need is not really explicable.
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Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
65
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Posted - 2015.07.01 11:51:49 -
[9] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: However, they did some what smash their ships together to make a better one.
If, for instance, their mast was damaged during combat, they would take it from the other ship. They would often take stronger cannons, and quite literally mix and match all the best of both ships.
Mast? Prop mod. Cannons? Guns. I see no ship mixing here...
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1171
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Posted - 2015.07.01 12:07:34 -
[10] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote: Suffice to say that not the Rattle -- if any ship at all -- should change but the Scorpion. It is also a widely known fact among players who actually pay attention to the lore and background story of EVE that especially the Guristas have a particular perverse delight in mocking the Caldari Navy by stealing/using their own ship designs against them. It is thus illogical to change hull designs for the Caldari/Guristas for existing hulls beyond color patterns. New hulls could be argued about in ways that Guristas want to demonstrate their own capabilities as ship designers, but that's about it in terms of acceptable hull design alterations.
As for the Serpentis: They are a corporation excelling in R&D for boosters and other mind and capability expanding drugs. They have the Angel as guardians of their installations. For large parts, they do not need special ship designs as the standard Gallente Hulls with some modifications of the traits work perfectly fine for their purposes. Wasting money on something they do not need is not really explicable.
Putting aside that the pilot on the receiving end of business with a vindicator would've appreciated some concord intervention when those 90%-web specs got implemented, yeahh...
Still, I'd greatly appreciate a difference from scorp to rattlesnake as is visible from T1 to T2 (moa-eagle, caracal-cerb, megathron-kronos, THE VAGA'S EARS!) for some of the recently redesigned hulls. The art department is on fire regarding their quality and design philosphies, that'd surely be doable. |
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
347
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Posted - 2015.07.01 12:20:52 -
[11] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: IE - the rattlesnake Cross between a domi and a scorpion, but it retained the scorpion model.
Because it is possibly Guristas who invented the Scorpion hull whereafter Caldari state took credit for it. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
348
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Posted - 2015.07.01 13:28:24 -
[12] - Quote
Ignore the hints in lore etc that the Scorpion design was actually stolen from the Gurista, one has to wonder why you think that combining ships has to be about combining them in a physical appearance?
Since the Gurista ships are all drones specialists how about they took the superior drones control hardware / software out of a wrecked Domi then adapted it for their own needs. The small bandwidth, small drones bays and the huge drones damage and hit points boosts all indicate that this was the case. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1546
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Posted - 2015.07.01 13:56:23 -
[13] - Quote
Does not warrant any change to the model, exactly. Removing the Ewar capabilities of the Scorpion frees up a lot of room and the Scorpion hull has enough antennae, receiver and transceiver and other radio-controlesque features on the hull that can accommodate drone control mechanisms.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
834
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Posted - 2015.07.01 14:26:17 -
[14] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Does not warrant any change to the model, exactly. Removing the Ewar capabilities of the Scorpion frees up a lot of room and the Scorpion hull has enough antennae, receiver and transceiver and other radio-controlesque features on the hull that can accommodate drone control mechanisms.
Ok, well, the whole point of this thread is new/different models for Pirate hulls..
I don't like duplication of hulls and CCP has been doing a lot of variation changes between t1 and t2.
I would like to see this fall over into the Pirate hulls. It doesn't apply to Navy ships, as they're essentially the difference between a civilian and navy model hull and the only typical differences there are paint and internal equipment. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1547
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Posted - 2015.07.01 15:16:31 -
[15] - Quote
Then you need to keep in mind that no all pirate factions are equal in their philosophies. There are some where unique hulls make a lot of sense and are actually supported by the lore (Angel with the Jove tech influence uncovered in Curse or Sansha with their origins from a immensely powerful and resourceful weapons trader and developer, or even the Mordus with their unique position and purpose as well as being weapons developers), and those where the lore and their set up identity does not support that kind of approach (Guristas as prime example as stated before). Serpentis are a bit of a mixed bag with the Daredevil. More unique hulls do not make sense in my opinion as they already have the Angel for their defense and more weapon research is questionable for them. Rogue Drones already boast loads of unique models, so do Blood Raider.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
834
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Posted - 2015.07.01 15:54:27 -
[16] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Then you need to keep in mind that no all pirate factions are equal in their philosophies. There are some where unique hulls make a lot of sense and are actually supported by the lore (Angel with the Jove tech influence uncovered in Curse or Sansha with their origins from a immensely powerful and resourceful weapons trader and developer, or even the Mordus with their unique position and purpose as well as being weapons developers), and those where the lore and their set up identity does not support that kind of approach (Guristas as prime example as stated before). Serpentis are a bit of a mixed bag with the Daredevil. More unique hulls do not make sense in my opinion as they already have the Angel for their defense and more weapon research is questionable for them. Rogue Drones already boast loads of unique models, so do Blood Raider.
I would love nothing more than to see Rogue Drone ships added as flyable, but that will likely never happen, and is also not the subject of the thread.... |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1547
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Posted - 2015.07.01 16:34:56 -
[17] - Quote
Well, your "suggestion" stems from the perception of old images of pirates. Cohorts of thugs and bandits, scavenging, plundering. That's what mere combination/incorporation of elements from 2 or more origins means to me. In EVE, on the other hand, we have progressed more than 20,000 years into the future and more than 4,000 years from the first new space travel in the cluster. You should expect a high degree of refinement on ship hulls and incorporation of other tech into existing ship hulls, in particular from the great pirate organizations. What you are looking for with this suggestion are in EVE completely irrelevant lesser pirate entities, aforementioned scavengers and bandits. They would, until they emerge into greater power, get destroyed by the big pirates or fuse into them, depend on this kind of scrapheap patchwork ship construction.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
351
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Posted - 2015.07.02 02:02:50 -
[18] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:I don't like duplication of hulls and CCP has been doing a lot of variation changes between t1 and t2.
I would like to see this fall over into the Pirate hulls. If you are not going to by into any lore based reasons for this then let's get practical.
Duplication of hulls likely has a lot to do with art and dev time. It is far easier to repaint an existing hull and let the graphics engine do all the heavy lifting. Introducing a new hull design is a major undertaking for the art staff and the devs to get it to a place where they can let the graphics engine do the heavy lifting and for now they need to wok on many other things.
Besides all that I still say no to your idea / request. The smaller pirate factions do not have the resources to design and fully develop new designs it is far less expensive to adapt existing designs to their needs. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
252
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Posted - 2015.07.02 02:29:04 -
[19] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Ok, this is kind of an odd suggestion...
I've always wondered why pirate ships look exactly like one ship, but have no resemblance to the other ship in the equation.
So this is a suggestion for new pirate faction models that look like the two ships got smashed together.
IE - the rattlesnake Cross between a domi and a scorpion, but it retained the scorpion model. Rip the tail and wings off the scorpion and glue them to the Domi, smooth out some rough edges, give it a little paint, and boom - you have something that looks like some pirates did some jury rigging..
I mean, you may end up with some f'd up designs, but what more would you expect from peg legged, eye patch wearing, bearded swashbucklers? Gallente have the 'ugly as hell' ship options covered, we dont need any more space abominations flying around.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
392
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Posted - 2015.07.02 04:32:33 -
[20] - Quote
Several of the faction/pirate hulls are unique, and several of them are outstanding skins on already strong hulls.... I am not against more variety, but some don't need changed at all. See Vindi and Bhaal.
The Law is a point of View
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
479
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Posted - 2015.07.02 04:49:03 -
[21] - Quote
Pirates come along a T1 battleship, rip out the guts and slap on some internal modifications, repaint the damn thing and send it on it's merry. The fact that pirate BS's require two rather than one battleship skill is intended largely to offset their level of awesomeness, not an indication that half the ship is from this BS and the other half is from that BS.
All said and done, I would like to agree that some variance in the visual department concerning pirate ships are in order if both a realistic and doable request, especially for those that are the evil twin brother to a T1 model. Pliss?
Edit: Also, can we get this for the cruisers and frigs, too? Pretty pliss?
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
835
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:27:22 -
[22] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Pirates come along a T1 battleship, rip out the guts and slap on some internal modifications, repaint the damn thing and send it on it's merry. The fact that pirate BS's require two rather than one battleship skill is intended largely to offset their level of awesomeness, not an indication that half the ship is from this BS and the other half is from that BS.
All said and done, I would like to agree that some variance in the visual department concerning pirate ships are in order if both a realistic and doable request, especially for those that are the evil twin brother to a T1 model. Pliss?
Edit: Also, can we get this for the cruisers and frigs, too? Pretty pliss?
Oh of course... The whole point is new models for all pirate ships, including frig and cruiser.
Really annoyed me that SoE got all new (and quite cool) models when released but the most of the other factions don't have their own special hulls. |
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
76
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:39:58 -
[23] - Quote
Guys, its actually true. CCP is redesigning the rattlesnake. Fortunately I found a leaked image of it, so let me present:
http://i.imgur.com/PT5eEgf.png |
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