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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Manas
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:31:00 -
[241]
Originally by: n sx
I'm not going to sit here and paste logs of your leaders addressing IAC's concerns and discussions regarding business and issues that needed to be resolved because frankly its merely dragging this into an boxing ring of he said she said that it doesn't need to be.
Count can harp on all he likes to greater EVE that 'we didn't do it' ..... but he knows as well as I do, that since forever he's hated IAC and everything it stands for. We've been the thorn in your side since the launch of our first ever outpost and have always been addressed in this way.
If you're telling me 'help thy neighbours' updates to your 'Charter' were entirely for IAC you're a liar. It's in there to justify the in-bed relations between ISS, UK and LV.
I know for a fact that the majority of ISS members considered IAC friends and were stunned by IAC recent aggression. And whether you believe it or not, we did put alot of serious effort into making structural changes to address our neighbor's concerns (including IAC).
Time for the new IAC leadership to be talking, not the old.
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Thundirr
Amarr Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:43:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Yodaron Ballsithor
Originally by: Eskona Runningstar
Originally by: IntegralHellsing can someone correct me if i am wrong?
so... ISS ****es IAC off somehow, IAC declares a war on ISS (but states that POS warfare will not occur), then ISS goes and puts a POS in whatever system in IAC territory, and now everyone joins ISS to look for easy IAC gank, right?
- ISS ****es off IAC - IAC voices their concerns - ISS changes charter to address IAC concerns - IAC nevertheless sets ISS to -10 - IAC invades ISS space and starts killing ISS ships - IAC members openly state the intent is to take ISS stations - ISS command asks IAC command if the intent really is to take stations - IAC command states "shooting POS is certainly not out of the question", not wanting to make a clear statement - IAC does not attack ISS Sovernty in any Systems. - ISS therefore reacts to the worst possible case and classifies the assault a preliminary stage of an attack on ISS stations - ISS hires MC and VETO - LV and others join the ISS side for various reasons (holding ISS shares, IAC being allied with enemies etc.) - ISS and allies proactively take the fight to IAC territory since staying on the defense would mean to react instead of taking the reins. - IAC claims ISS is no longer neutral / non-political entity because ISS is invading IAC space
Fixed this part for accuracy. The rest is subject to debate from both sides, at least from what I have read.
I further updated it. Seemed unfair to leave out Us not attacking sovernty in any systems.
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n sx
The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:46:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Manas
I know for a fact that the majority of ISS members considered IAC friends and were stunned by IAC recent aggression. And whether you believe it or not, we did put alot of serious effort into making structural changes to address our neighbor's concerns (including IAC).
Time for the new IAC leadership to be talking, not the old.
Manas, sadly on the whole IAC has little to no gripe with singular corp entities within ISS. It's the actions of your leaders torwards a neighbour over 12 months that sparked this all coupled with the flaws in your charter that allow you to operate covertly though claim neutrality.
To answer your statement, the new leadership did, and your leader told them to go away. Essentially, Count wants Tyrrax (and/or maybe me) to crawl on his knees and beg for forgiveness so he can send it to all his friends and laugh. I can assure you though, this will not happen.
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Hans Roaming
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:51:00 -
[244]
Originally by: IntegralHellsing Edited by: IntegralHellsing on 21/12/2006 15:37:44
Originally by: n sx
Originally by: IntegralHellsing can someone correct me if i am wrong?
so... ISS ****es IAC off somehow, IAC declares a war on ISS (but states that POS warfare will not occur), then ISS goes and puts a POS in whatever system in IAC territory, and now everyone joins ISS to look for easy IAC gank, right?
Correction, IAC didn't clarify (confirm or deny) POS warfare to ISS officials.
then why is ISS *****ing about and saying 'OMFG IAC will take our outposts omfg we are so bloody doomed! go get MC and Veto.!'?
Is this just a big opportunity for ISS to take IAC outposts in the name of protecting their valuable assets, or is this just to eliminate a 'threat'?
Maybe you should ask why should not ISS remove a hostile neighbour who attacked them first given the means to do so? Any other alliance would, why shouldn't ISS? To not attack to their full ability when threated by hostiles that are not clear about taking the station(s) or not sets a bad precident.
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insanebe
Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:51:00 -
[245]
this smack fest still going someone lock this thread already knowledge is power.... guard it well |
Eskona Runningstar
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2006.12.21 16:54:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Thundirr (...) I further updated it. Seemed unfair to leave out Us not attacking sovernty in any systems.
Point taken, you are correct. However, how should ISS know IAC would not be attacking stations when IAC members clearly stated several times that taking stations is the goal and IAC command did not clearly deny it? Peace needs stability as foundation, but vague statements like "we might be shooting POS" dont provide that solid foundation to build on. ---------- These are my views and mine alone. They do not represent the official stance of my corporation or alliance in any way.
Eskona Runningstar Eve University IVY League |
Manas
The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:08:00 -
[247]
Originally by: n sx
To answer your statement, the new leadership did, and your leader told them to go away. Essentially, Count wants Tyrrax (and/or maybe me) to crawl on his knees and beg for forgiveness so he can send it to all his friends and laugh. I can assure you though, this will not happen.
Doesn't sound like the Count I know. ISS really doesn't get heated up by shooty based ego things, or bear long grudges as long as the stations are protected. I mean, we hired Veto afterall, who was once red. Perhaps the new IAC leadership should announce their future alliance aims, diplomatic or military, in a rational way. Clear, straight, business talk is what gets our attention and respect.
TGRAD info & video here
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:14:00 -
[248]
Originally by: n sx
Count can harp on all he likes to greater EVE that 'we didn't do it' ..... but he knows as well as I do, that since forever he's hated IAC and everything it stands for. We've been the thorn in your side since the launch of our first ever outpost and have always been addressed in this way.
This is just funny.
IAC were always considered to be good neighbours, until now.
Surely your spies reported this to you?
Anyway, you've shown your true colours now. Deal with the consequences.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:16:00 -
[249]
Originally by: n sx
To answer your statement, the new leadership did, and your leader told them to go away. Essentially, Count wants Tyrrax (and/or maybe me) to crawl on his knees and beg for forgiveness so he can send it to all his friends and laugh. I can assure you though, this will not happen.
Anyone who knows Count, and has dealt with him, will laugh at this.
You're making a complete fool of yourself. Do carry on.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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Airen Cracken
Gallente Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:18:00 -
[250]
ISS didnt hire Fix...any serious aillance who wanted a war against IAC could have asked fix for help that simple
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Megas Alkaia
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:32:00 -
[251]
Originally by: n sx IAC stood up for its rights
I have seen this mentioned quite a few times now, but I really don't understand it. Can you clarify what rights you are standing up for?
Also are these "rights" a good rationale for aggressive warfare?
Lastly, can there be any doubt that IAC would have coveted the ISS outposts in Catch had no strong response from ISS been forthcoming? None of us want war, or your outposts. Personally I was happy to buy stuff from IAC outposts and I am sure ISS pilots in general were your largest external customers... wherein lies the logic of attacking your largest trading partner, one who never ever EVER would have attacked you first and would have made any reasonable concession to maintain peaceful relations.
It boggles the mind...
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n sx
The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:36:00 -
[252]
Edited by: n sx on 21/12/2006 17:38:30
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: n sx
Count can harp on all he likes to greater EVE that 'we didn't do it' ..... but he knows as well as I do, that since forever he's hated IAC and everything it stands for. We've been the thorn in your side since the launch of our first ever outpost and have always been addressed in this way.
This is just funny.
IAC were always considered to be good neighbours, until now.
Surely your spies reported this to you?
Anyway, you've shown your true colours now. Deal with the consequences.
If this is the case, that we're good neighbours in the eyes of your pilots, it was never confirmed by your leadership. Alot of this unfolded during the first prohibition contract where ISS told us (James and Count) we weren't your friends and we shouldn't expect anything from ISS whatsoever.
Butter, as far as spies go, I personally have no knowledge of any within your ranks and I have never (nor will I) sanction the use of them. Nothing aggrovates me more than vent and forum spies, which have plagued IAC's infrastructure throughout this ordeal. Given the size of both our alliances, im sure they are riddled with them but for me personally, they are worse than any other entity in EVE and as such would never support them, their actions or even act on intel passed down.
... and just to clarify, I have never said we've not accepted the consequences as much as you alude to the case being otherwise.
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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:36:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Megas Alkaia
Originally by: n sx IAC stood up for its rights
I have seen this mentioned quite a few times now, but I really don't understand it. Can you clarify what rights you are standing up for?
Also are these "rights" a good rationale for aggressive warfare?
Lastly, can there be any doubt that IAC would have coveted the ISS outposts in Catch had no strong response from ISS been forthcoming? None of us want war, or your outposts. Personally I was happy to buy stuff from IAC outposts and I am sure ISS pilots in general were your largest external customers... wherein lies the logic of attacking your largest trading partner, one who never ever EVER would have attacked you first and would have made any reasonable concession to maintain peaceful relations.
It boggles the mind...
Nice post.
------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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Smoking Mirror
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:36:00 -
[254]
What's the reason for the war again? IAC was unhappy with some things ISS did 6 months ago? IAC doesn't believe the corporation purge, reorganization, and new charter amount to anything at all? They didn't like the pricing of modules in Marginis? What?
Just merge the alliances, give everyone a position in the ISS IPO, and get about the business of business. If you need pew pew, there are plenty of people around 0.0 to do that with.
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Max Teranous
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.21 17:53:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi People keep blaming the current IAC leadership for this. We have only been in office one week and we didn't start this war.
The current leadership may not have started it, but they have the power to end it. It would require the swallowing of some pride, but at the end of the day ISS are business people and want friendly relationships with their neighbours.
Max
--------------------
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n sx
The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:05:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Max Teranous
The current leadership may not have started it, but they have the power to end it. It would require the swallowing of some pride, but at the end of the day ISS are business people and want friendly relationships with their neighbours.
I answered this ... in some thread, somewhere? :P
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Dari Vire
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:10:00 -
[257]
who the hell starts a pointless war just before stepping down as the leader?
am i missing something here, has the leadership of iac actually changed hands between the start of the war a week ago and now?
wth?
I feel sorry for the new iac command being left with the bag of ****.
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Avernus
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:17:00 -
[258]
Originally by: n sx
Originally by: Max Teranous
The current leadership may not have started it, but they have the power to end it. It would require the swallowing of some pride, but at the end of the day ISS are business people and want friendly relationships with their neighbours.
I answered this ... in some thread, somewhere? :P
If I recall right, the answer given was that your expectations for what would be asked of gave you little faith in the process.... ok, I can't remember exactly how you put it, except it had something to do with visions of you and Tyrrax crawling to Count for forgiveness. It's not the sort of thing that ends wars effectively.
I'll tell you what I think truely is a load of crap though, and that's getting stuck holding the bag for another person's decisions. Going into peace talks means having to suck it up, and stow away the egos... there has never been a way around that part of it. Count is a smart guy though, I don't believe you'd find it to be a demeaning process. It does require you to take the first steps; if I'd give any advice, it would be to go into it with realistic expectations.
Blog |
Silvestri
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:24:00 -
[259]
Originally by: KineTiK iac's 'new' leadership says they didnt start the war. but so far i havent seen or heard of any of em try to end it. i wonder why tbh..
because Count said **** off to our diplomats and said he needed his beauty sleep. Was tried and sleep was more important....you'll sleep enough when your dead...
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:27:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Silvestri
Originally by: KineTiK iac's 'new' leadership says they didnt start the war. but so far i havent seen or heard of any of em try to end it. i wonder why tbh..
because Count said **** off to our diplomats and said he needed his beauty sleep. Was tried and sleep was more important....you'll sleep enough when your dead...
Real life > eve.
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style7,Smashing.png Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo |
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Avernus
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:31:00 -
[261]
Soooo... send the guy a mail and see when/if he wants to talk?
It could be too early for talks just yet, I don't know. Talks that occur when one party is in a uncontestable position, tend to go a lot smoother than people would expect. The loss of IAC outposts, may be a pre-requisite to opening talks...again, I don't know, fire off a mail perhaps.
Blog |
Witch Doctor
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.21 18:40:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Silvestri
Originally by: KineTiK iac's 'new' leadership says they didnt start the war. but so far i havent seen or heard of any of em try to end it. i wonder why tbh..
because Count said **** off to our diplomats and said he needed his beauty sleep. Was tried and sleep was more important....you'll sleep enough when your dead...
Are you seriously saying that because he had to sleep, you broke off talks and are going to pursue aggressions vs. ISS forever? Doesn't that strike you as a little extreme and perhaps unduly constraining your and ISS' options?
Honestly, your alliance's diplomacy needs work. It seems like you're casting about for a moral high ground. There's no morality in diplomacy - just two sides working to a common compromise that both can live with. ISS have basically said that they don't want to go down what is looking like an inevitable path, and most of their allies have signaled agreement. Why not make a good-faith effort to see if you can get a resolution before it gets to the end-point that nobody wants, even if that means taking a few bruises to the ego?
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Buzee
Flight Of Fantasy
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Posted - 2006.12.21 19:13:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Witch Doctor
Originally by: Silvestri
Originally by: KineTiK iac's 'new' leadership says they didnt start the war. but so far i havent seen or heard of any of em try to end it. i wonder why tbh..
because Count said **** off to our diplomats and said he needed his beauty sleep. Was tried and sleep was more important....you'll sleep enough when your dead...
Are you seriously saying that because he had to sleep, you broke off talks and are going to pursue aggressions vs. ISS forever? Doesn't that strike you as a little extreme and perhaps unduly constraining your and ISS' options?
Honestly, your alliance's diplomacy needs work. It seems like you're casting about for a moral high ground. There's no morality in diplomacy - just two sides working to a common compromise that both can live with. ISS have basically said that they don't want to go down what is looking like an inevitable path, and most of their allies have signaled agreement. Why not make a good-faith effort to see if you can get a resolution before it gets to the end-point that nobody wants, even if that means taking a few bruises to the ego?
I actually think its ISS that should be suing for peace lol, seeing as they will make an eternal enemy from this conflict. Also a lot of intrested parties are watching from the sidelines. Why should ISS try to spin it as if they are doing IAC a favour ISS will defo have a permanent thorn in their flesh so...go IAC, a few outpost's wont kill you, not when there's npc stations next to it.No station to defend, lots of ISS to constantly harass including suprise sieges if you so wish.
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Avernus
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 19:15:00 -
[264]
Buzee, I think your corp name sums up everything you said pretty well.
Blog |
Silvestri
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.21 19:49:00 -
[265]
I look forward to future MC contracts as well...no matter who you are contracted against....IAC will back up your opposition...I hope future employers think of that when hiring you...no matter who they want dead we'll be there too. drunkan swarms ftw...
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Avernus
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 20:22:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Silvestri I look forward to future MC contracts as well...no matter who you are contracted against....IAC will back up your opposition...I hope future employers think of that when hiring you...no matter who they want dead we'll be there too. drunkan swarms ftw...
Are you attempting to give as many reasons as you can for your foes to shatter IAC into as many shards as possible?
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Evil Thug
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.21 20:25:00 -
[267]
Stfu already. We are now in jby6 and we are waiting for you. Bring it on
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Avernus
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.21 20:29:00 -
[268]
Meh.. my connection craps out about once every 5 to 10 minutes, power problems at home = fried computer. Only action I have a hope of getting in Eve is forum based for the time being.
Blog |
Xander Magnus
Caldari Wolf Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.21 21:09:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Vando Edited by: Vando on 21/12/2006 15:27:09
Originally by: Xander Magnus Do you even read the forums and the posts made by your own diplomats? i'll do this one more time:
Originally by: Georgik Sojik
May the best alliance win Tycho and Marginis.
although I'm no official IAC Diplomat, I believe we'll have the same deal with the shareholders as ISS once had with you
Evidently you yourself are not reading the bits where people state they're not diplomats.
As for the other posts, they're merely not committing to any one course of action. Perhaps not the best words to allay ISS fears, but certainly not a commitment to POS warfare. Not a shot was fired on any ISS POS, even when IAC held the military advantage. That is the most telling point of all, however much you may belittle the IAC leadership I assure you they are aware of how to press an advantage.
Edit: this isn't a post on behalf of IAC, it's a post on behalf of common sense.
So just because one of them isn't a diplomat you disregard all that is said? Even if some are just members, they're still IAC. Every good diplomat knows you don't kid around during talks, and if you didn't want to give ISS assurance that their outposts were at danger than that's reason enough to take the matters into their own hands.
Just close this thread, IAC isn't interested in peace apparently. The only thing you keep doing is threatening ISS ('we will be a thorn in your side') and giving them no other alternative than to engage you. This has come to a dead end and I see no other outcome then IAC loosing it's stations and having to live in empire again unless they stop being so hardheaded. And maybe even then it's already too late and they've waited too long to stop the war..
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Connector
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Posted - 2006.12.21 21:40:00 -
[270]
Edited by: Connector on 21/12/2006 21:44:51
Originally by: Evil Thug Stfu already. We are now in jby6 and we are waiting for you. Bring it on
Rather hard to bring it on when you've logged out at a POS.
Thanks for brining in the lowest form of gameplay to an otherwise enjoyable fight.
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