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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:12:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Atreus Minmatarius
quote pyramid
Not going to happen. The vast majority of businesses refuse to upgrade from XP or 2000 to Vista because they have no need to.
As long as there are 100s of millions of business computers running XP and 2000, they will still be supported.
Regardless, the day Microsoft ends support for XP is the day I switch to Linux, unless they've magically come up with a good operating system that doesn't steal control of your computer. Which is unlikely.
I'm a little confused, what do you mean by "steal control of your computer"?
Read this. It will scare you.
Hehe I've had (an illegal) vista disk sitting on my desk for a while now as i was waiting for better driver support. After that reading that im gonna say **** that **** though, ill stick to XP. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Alexander Siege
Minmatar Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:13:00 -
[92]
You know Im noticing some very strange parallels from something a few years ago.
5 years ago this new O/S came out. I was a resource hog. It was buggy as hell. I wanted to have MS certified drivers. Most people would of had to upgrade their machines to get the best use out of it. Some people hated the fact it try and stop you tinkering with it, as well as the fact you had to activate it within 30 days. So those people said they would stay with a previous O/S because they didn't like the new O/S.
Anything sound familiar?
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Dammar
Amarr Ephorate
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:16:00 -
[93]
Very funny how half the posters in this thread don't have a clue what the OP is talking about.
Yea, I read this and of course my reaction was hostile.
It's no secret CCP are in bed with microsoft(or they try very hard to be at least) as I've seen people point out MS's direct-x page and right there on it is a picture of eve. This has become a good thing gone bad I guess.
A move like this, even if there is absolutely no technical reason for NOT releasing 'ambulation' on WinXP, wouldn't surprise me at all given Eve's latest trends.
I'd like to hear the reason this is going to be Vista only though since pretty much everyone says there is nothing really new in Dx10 or Vista. I'm no programmer I'll admit, but the ones I have seen say these things, well....I'll be taking their word before giving "CCP" the benefit of the doubt, that is unless they care to defend their position.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG Alektorophobia
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:18:00 -
[94]
When XP support runs out, I am going to change to linux/unix rather than Vista.
Are there any plans of developing a linux client? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Stogee
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:21:00 -
[95]
Originally by: hired goon
Originally by: Stogee
Originally by: hired goon What... the hell? The main reaso I've stayed with Eve over the years has mostly to do with the attitude of CCP... they're not some faceless corporation out to milk users of moneys using the MMOG business formula.
Oh dear, I havent laughed so hard in ages
I don't understand. Are you implying that they are?
Enjoy your Blizzard Software.
Yes, thats exactly what I am implying.
Firstly, I dont play WoW neither do I intend to. I only play Eve and enjoy it a lot, but as a game designer by trade I am under no illusions to the purpose behind the design of Eve. All gamers love to believe that the game studios they like are about passion and games and not 'corporate' or making money. It may be the Game Industry, but it's still industry.
The fundamental design of Eve makes it painfully obvious. If you dont understand that, I'm not sure you'd understand even if I sat here and explained it to you.
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Ealiom
Blackhole Entry Point
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:22:00 -
[96]
Personally im happy that one company has a monopoly on the OS front. It makes development for games and software a much easier task that it would be in a world were 20 different OS's shared an equal portion of the market place.
It would and will always be the case that one OS will be dominant over others.
I could only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to code a piece of software with 20 odd different OS's in mind.
ummm no thanks.
As for Microsoft being hte evil. meh I have taken far more from Microsoft over the years than they have taken from me. I dont have any right to hate them when it is 'I' who uses 'them'
Also you should be under no illusions that if another company rises to power and overthrows MS, they will be just as calleous and power hungry as Microsoft. This is the world we live in, no amount of chest beating will change that. It would be nice but not bloody likely.
Executioner Model Blackbird Model |
Dmian
Gallente Starline Engineering Corporation
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:30:00 -
[97]
Well, I'm a graphic designer and a former Mac user. I bought a Compaq which came with XP OEM. It's a decent OS, but not the best. I need it to run Adobe apps. I made my PC a dual-boot with Ubuntu. I'm not upgrading to Vista. I hate all DRM related stuff. If I feel like paying again for an OS it'll probably be MacOS, not Windows. But I don't feel like paying for something with DRM, really... I'm a slave to Adobe apps right now, not Windows or MacOS. If a Linux version of Adobe apps were available (or a free professional suite for design is released), I'll be using Linux, not Windows nor MacOS. I'll use XP until it becomes useless. I'll play Eve until I get bored. I don't care why CCP choose DirectX. It's a pitty they didn't choose OpenGL. But they must know what they're doing, I suppose. I only hope I don't have to face a situation where I have to choose between a game and a OS: the game will probably loose. Regards
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Impericus
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:50:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Qolde Let me put it in terms you can understand for sure. Some of you will obviously disagree with this because, well, I'm talking about you.
Microsoft/Intel/all the media companies and the Trusted Computing Group can be compared to BoB. They want to control all access to data, like BoB wants 0.0 space. You can lie down and pay their exorbitant tax, or forever be on their hit list. You can be one of the people who say,"Oh well, so what, I can afford the cost of liberty to be comfortable*, so I will pay the tax." First they took out your neighbors, and rarely came knocking at your door. You said, this is fine, I can still mine veld over here without really having to fight them. Now they are your neighbors, and next is your space. Your music, your text documents, your internet connection are all being spied on by Windows Media Player, WGA, the indexing service, and Windows itself, kind of like how BoB has spies in every major 0.0 alliance. They kill your titans while you're asleep. It catalogs your files while you're not looking and tracks your internet usage, even when you set it to delete your tracks, the data is still there. They lie about their product, and spread FUD(fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about other Corporations, and they even cheat to win. :P Is this what you want me to upgrade to?
Nicely put !!
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Gigi Barbagrigia
Latent Appliance Fetishists
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:53:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you.
Actually it entertained me quite a bit. This means that even with nothing else happening in the system, a mass of assorted drivers has to wake up thirty times a second just to ensure thatà nothing continues to happen. So D.A.-ish
There will always be alternatives and stiffer mainstream means geekier sideways. Which is good.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:54:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Ealiom I could only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to code a piece of software with 20 odd different OS's in mind.
If your game is dependent upon OS specific calls instead of API specific calls you shouldn't be writing games.
If this game was written against OpenGL/OpenAL it would be trivial to port it to linux/osx. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
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Scilent Enigma
Minmatar SpearMint Rhino GentleMen's Club
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:54:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Dmian I only hope I don't have to face a situation where I have to choose between a game and a OS: the game will probably loose.
QFT I'll be going over to Linux when XP is no longer supported. Have been looking for a reason and this seems to be the best one yet.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:56:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Gigi Barbagrigia
Originally by: Dark Shikari Read this. It will scare you.
Actually it entertained me quite a bit. This means that even with nothing else happening in the system, a mass of assorted drivers has to wake up thirty times a second just to ensure thatà nothing continues to happen. So D.A.-ish
There will always be alternatives and stiffer mainstream means geekier sideways. Which is good.
Yeah I thought that was a great line too, giggled a bit at it
--23 Member--
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.15 15:56:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Impericus This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game.
You mean the game isn't fun now? Because DX9 people will have everything they have now *plus* fancy new graphics...
So, how about you STFU, k? -
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Impericus
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:00:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ealiom
As for Microsoft being hte evil. meh I have taken far more from Microsoft over the years than they have taken from me. I dont have any right to hate them when it is 'I' who uses 'them'
Well here is the difference. I am one of those who has given more to MS than received. I paid for my licences but got countless hours of chrashes and reinstalls needs, on my working computer (not gaming).
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Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:02:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Ealiom Personally im happy that one company has a monopoly on the OS front. It makes development for games and software a much easier task that it would be in a world were 20 different OS's shared an equal portion of the market place.
It would and will always be the case that one OS will be dominant over others.
I could only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to code a piece of software with 20 odd different OS's in mind.
ummm no thanks.
As for Microsoft being hte evil. meh I have taken far more from Microsoft over the years than they have taken from me. I dont have any right to hate them when it is 'I' who uses 'them'
Also you should be under no illusions that if another company rises to power and overthrows MS, they will be just as calleous and power hungry as Microsoft. This is the world we live in, no amount of chest beating will change that. It would be nice but not bloody likely.
Honestly, these days, it isn't as hard as you would like to think. There's these things called "open standards". Any hardware and software vendor can implement them. The OS is just an interface between the hardware and software. Microsoft attempts to implement its own "closed standards" that only work on windows, yet still allow open standards that can work on any computer. So, you can use openGL in windows, easily, because every single graphics card out there that you can buy today supports it. OpenGL works in MacOS, Linux, and windows. Examples of games that use OpenGL are the Quake and Doom, which are considered masterpieces of 3d gaming. There's OpenAL for sound, and wxWidgets for a crossplatform windowing API. This means you can use the same code to program entire games that work on all 3 major OSes. DirectX only works on Windows and XboX. DirectX is NOT better than openGL for the simple fact that it is not portable, and it is proprietary. What company in their right mind would do this to themselves? Shortsighted ones that don't believe that even the greatest empires are doomed to fall. Maybe it's easier to use Microsoft's buggy code. Is that an excuse for paying their exorbitant prices? It's lower quality, more expensive. Read that Benjamin Franklin quote again dudes.
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Ealiom
Blackhole Entry Point
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:04:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: Ealiom I could only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to code a piece of software with 20 odd different OS's in mind.
If your game is dependent upon OS specific calls instead of API specific calls you shouldn't be writing games.
If this game was written against OpenGL/OpenAL it would be trivial to port it to linux/osx.
Its not trivial though. All those OS's all requiring extensive testing, for hardware as well as software. I could imagine the hail of patching that would dwarf that of today.
I like the fact i can take information from any machine and drop it into another and know it will work. Likewise when i buy a game i know it will work, with the exception of BF games and a few others.
Drivers would be a nightmare as well. All in all it would be a much worse situation than we have at present.
Executioner Model Blackbird Model |
Impericus
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:04:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
If this game was written against OpenGL/OpenAL it would be trivial to port it to linux/osx.
This is exactly the issue.
It wouldnt surprise if we learned that Directx was chosen because MS made it part of the requirement in supporting their windows servers architecture.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:06:00 -
[108]
Incidentally, what's to stop someone from dual-booting and only using Vista for gaming?
Let's, um, pretend cost isn't an issue here... -
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
MrTriggerHappy
Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:08:00 -
[109]
Edited by: MrTriggerHappy on 15/03/2007 16:05:01
Originally by: Crumplecorn Incidentally, what's to stop someone from dual-booting and only using Vista for gaming?
Let's, um, pretend cost isn't an issue here...
IIRC part of the EULA, they can remove any software they see as unwanted without (<--sp, edit) your authorization.. wonder if they could remove an OS when your dual boosting and currently active on your vista (they probably cant, but i like to make theories) --------------------------------
My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
Impericus
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:11:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Impericus This essentially means that people will need to upgrade to Vista if they are going to have any real fun with the game.
You mean the game isn't fun now? Because DX9 people will have everything they have now *plus* fancy new graphics...
So, how about you STFU, k?
Yeah.. tell it to my face and see how well that goes...
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG Alektorophobia
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:13:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Incidentally, what's to stop someone from dual-booting and only using Vista for gaming?
Let's, um, pretend cost isn't an issue here...
I really don't like black box interfaces. And the fact that you can't buy Vista, you can only lease a limited use right for one computer... And the fact that they have used more effort into limiting what you can do with it than to opening possibilities for use. "Windows. Closing doors for you." ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Ealiom
Blackhole Entry Point
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:13:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Qolde Honestly, these days, it isn't as hard as you would like to think. There's these things called "open standards". Any hardware and software vendor can implement them.
I think thats the problem i envisage. In a sea of OS's there will be direct attempts at singling themselves out in order to become market leaders. There will always be a push to dominate the competitor. The fact that they can impliment them doesnt mean they will.
Its been like this every time MS release a new OS is released. DOS - Win95 - Win98 - WinXP - Vista
I will be installing Vista if it proves to be utter rubbish. Devastatingly so competitors will sieze the opportunity and i may see myself going for an alternative, but at present the support is not there and is not as readily accessabile as Windows.
Executioner Model Blackbird Model |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:14:00 -
[113]
Originally by: MrTriggerHappy Edited by: MrTriggerHappy on 15/03/2007 16:05:01
Originally by: Crumplecorn Incidentally, what's to stop someone from dual-booting and only using Vista for gaming?
Let's, um, pretend cost isn't an issue here...
IIRC part of the EULA, they can remove any software they see as unwanted without (<--sp, edit) your authorization.. wonder if they could remove an OS when your dual boosting and currently active on your vista (they probably cant, but i like to make theories)
I don't know would even windows go as far as wiping out another OS, especially if that OS is one of its predecessors own... as long as you don't try to run the XP executables in Vista, it shouldn't even notice. -
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:15:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Ealiom Its not trivial though. All those OS's all requiring extensive testing, for hardware as well as software. I could imagine the hail of patching that would dwarf that of today.
I like the fact i can take information from any machine and drop it into another and know it will work. Likewise when i buy a game i know it will work, with the exception of BF games and a few others.
Drivers would be a nightmare as well. All in all it would be a much worse situation than we have at present.
Doesn't seem to be a problem for blizzard, id or epic. And why does CCP have to care at all about drivers? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Ealiom
Blackhole Entry Point
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:20:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Hllaxiu Doesn't seem to be a problem for blizzard, id or epic. And why does CCP have to care at all about drivers?
You just named some of the biggest players with the funds and resources to make it possible While remaining profitable.
Don't know what you mean about CCP having to care about drivers? I was refering to the hardware side.
Executioner Model Blackbird Model |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:26:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Ealiom
Originally by: Hllaxiu Doesn't seem to be a problem for blizzard, id or epic. And why does CCP have to care at all about drivers?
You just named some of the biggest players with the funds and resources to make it possible While remaining profitable.
Don't know what you mean about CCP having to care about drivers? I was refering to the hardware side.
I really don't understand what you mean about drivers - I use Ubuntu for the most part and my graphics card is fully supported and gets performance similar to that under windows (for OpenGL stuff anyways). Same goes for my sound card and everything else. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:33:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Ealiom
Originally by: Qolde Honestly, these days, it isn't as hard as you would like to think. There's these things called "open standards". Any hardware and software vendor can implement them.
I think thats the problem i envisage. In a sea of OS's there will be direct attempts at singling themselves out in order to become market leaders. There will always be a push to dominate the competitor. The fact that they can impliment them doesnt mean they will.
Its been like this every time MS release a new OS is released. DOS - Win95 - Win98 - WinXP - Vista
I will be installing Vista if it proves to be utter rubbish. Devastatingly so competitors will sieze the opportunity and i may see myself going for an alternative, but at present the support is not there and is not as readily accessabile as Windows.
The thing is, it's not really up to the OS creator on whether or not to support OpenGL. It's up to your graphics card manufacturer to be compliant, and they ALL are. Someone just writes the implementation library for a specific OS, and you can just bring some old code from any other openGL game or whatever and compile it on the new OS without writing anything new. So, what we have here is Crowd Control Productions mysteriously deciding to ignore part of the crowd that they wish to control, by using inferior software that doesn't run on more than one kind of machine. Weird if you ask me. I think TomB is Bill Gates alt.
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Ealiom
Blackhole Entry Point
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:43:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Ealiom on 15/03/2007 16:46:29 Edited by: Ealiom on 15/03/2007 16:44:08
Originally by: prsr I really don't think there's any platform with more driver issues then ms windows. Projecting their issues by default on competitors really doesn't make any sense.
Well of course its all hypothetical. So is assuming that any and all competitors would get it 100% right. Reading the posts its as if you believe that another OS will have a perfect system where we will all live in a grand digital utopia. Its a pipe dream.
Like most things ill wait till a few years down the line. After i have extensively used the software. If its utter garbage i will likely jump to a new OS that would have undoubtedly become more popular if Vista is an utter failure.
Until then im not going to be so short sighted as to abandon something i havent even broken in.
Executioner Model Blackbird Model |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:50:00 -
[119]
Well upgrading to vista isn't an option for me, because it looks and smells so awful, but neither is Linux. Having used it exclusively for a few months, I went back to XP. Can't stand linux. It's not a viable alternative and don't tell me to get a mac...
So it comes down to if eve caters to microsoft to the point that I can't see some content without getting vista, it'll probably be goodbye eve.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Qolde
Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.15 16:53:00 -
[120]
Methinks if there were multiple OSes, half of them would be just another flavor of *nix. Hell macOS is based on the *nix system. WinXP stole some ideas from *nix, and I wouldn't doubt Vista has even more *nix type features, than XP. And if you only knew what the *nix dudes have to go through to get a driver written for *nix(such as write it from scratch with 0 documentation), you'd see that it's possible. If you understood how Linux works, you'd understand that they can't be like Microsuck. If you knew that *nix has had a windowing system since the 80's and 64-bit computing since the early 90's, then you wouldn't think that Windows was ever "better" than *nix. The thing *nix lacks is summed up in a few words. Support from game developers. If a few good people would step in and get the ball rolling, it would easily dominate.
I did this experiment after my 100% legal copy of Xp said that I couldn't install it anymore, where I simply switched to Linux. It worked better to my surprise, but I couldn't play with my favorite Digital Audio Workstation in Linux. That's the only reason I even keep Windows around since Eve plays fine in Linux for now.
*nix = Unix, Linux, BSD, and stuff like it.
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