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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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kieron
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Posted - 2007.03.19 19:21:00 -
[1]
A short time ago, Oveur posted a Dev Blog about some forthcoming changes to the mission/agent system and asked for feedback from the community. Based on that feedback and a number of the concerns raised in the discussion thread, Oveur has come up with another blog to address the discussion.
Rather than keep you reading more, I'll simply direct you to the blog itself. Missions, Exploration and Mini-professions Revisited. Enjoy!
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online |
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Montaire
Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.19 19:30:00 -
[2]
Most excellent. Glad to see the communication going well.
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Jak'ai
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.03.19 19:31:00 -
[3]
/me pouts
Better AI for NPCs with less NPCs overally didn't make the cut. Sigh.
Here's hoping for the future.
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Masheine
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Posted - 2007.03.19 19:54:00 -
[4]
"You can still make (tons) of ISK, but it's in the form of materials, tools, ship loot drop, salvaging, technology (hacking)."
Yeah. I know when I go through an Extravaganza mission, and get one named module and twenty Miner I's, that's a cool 40,000 isk for my wallet...
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Gen Maton
Ars ex Discordia Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.19 19:57:00 -
[5]
The Dev blog link links to the incorrect Dev blog, fyi. (in the original post)
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Valrandir
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:02:00 -
[6]
CoolÖ
-------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:03:00 -
[7]
good to hear missions only became ISK inflators when u took out and ddint replace time bonus non ISK things like NPC goods etc with ISK that just inflated the whole thing. Put em back
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LancerSix
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:08:00 -
[8]
Making changes to things based almost entirely on player feedback? You guys are the only ones I've ever seen even think about that. Keep it up .
Warning: Sig highly outdated. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:08:00 -
[9]
Good blog. It give a lot of hope and I am glad that we will be testing the changed missions before starting the level 5.
I hope to see factional warfare some day .
I am glad to see that even courier missions get some change. I will suggest to change R&D missions too. Make them harder and 1 every week or so, with the reward for a week worth of research, or some small item for invention. I it all well and easy to run 15 jumps and 5 agents, giving pre-stored tritanium or moving a parcel 1-2 jups, usually along my route too, but even if it is rewarding for the number of missions done and the RP points, I don't feel it is right.
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Murphy
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:20:00 -
[10]
"Printing large sums of money is bad. That is inserting new ISK into the economy."
Remove static 0.0 complexes and make them exploration sites. You'll remove a huge isk printer from the game doing that.
There's right around 25 10/10 complexes, those alone add at a minimum 25 billion per day. That's just in overseer's effects. That doesn't include the billions of loot they drop or any of the other complexes.
Plus you'd think after all this time the factions would figure out to hide their shipyards.
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Andashi
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:21:00 -
[11]
Well thats cleared up a lot of my concerns from the mission dev blog... Looking forward to these changes now.
Cheers
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rodgerd
Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:24:00 -
[12]
Infusing ISK from missions is a problem. Except our economics guy said it wasn't. And it's not a problem if it's the far greater amounts from 0.0 complexes and ratting. Guys? I'm confused! What was our excuse for another mission nerf?
Could you put someone in charge of the PvE content who doesn't hate it? -- Not the opinions of my corp or my alliance. |
Serenity Steele
Rearden Steele
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:42:00 -
[13]
Quote: This is where the whole inflation thing comes in. Printing large sums of money is bad. That is inserting new ISK into the economy. We want to change it so that the higher end players are not the source of ISK into the economy, the higher end players get their ISK from the other players.
Could you please clarify on the ambiguity of 'higher end', and how this could in theory be achieved?; It would be possible to end up with something like 'higher end mining' throwing a spanner in the works by either a) cause a flattening in the price distribution of minerals, or b) higher-end mining dissapearing, causing a mono-type of ore refine types across the universe, devaluing part of the strategic value of holding 0.0 space.
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert
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Tiberyya Za
Gallente Bellum Aeternus The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:57:00 -
[14]
Quote: The incorrect part, is that we are adding lots of content. Exploration contains hundreds of different encounters for you to find (Srsly. Hundreds). We encourage you to try it out and there is already more coming.
1. There is a perception that exploration is unrewarding, risk vs. reward.
2. Many players do not want to deal with the boring, technical scan probe gameplay, yet explorers cannot sell waypoints for their findings to mission runners due to the risk of scamming. Add some sort of authenticated waypoint that shows the type and expiration date of the complex so that trust-free commerce in waypoints can be established.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:59:00 -
[15]
Nice blog, but I'd like to comment on this part:
Quote:
But here comes the thing. The policing is done by players and player organizations that want to play EVE that way. The ones that enjoy chasing down player pirates and providing havens where they benefit from having pilots basing their operations from.
For short. The beauty of the MMO is that there are so many tasks, so many corners of the universe, so many professions in there. You don't have to be the police, but you can benefit from other players policing for you. The other people. Don't forget them.
How many players exactly are doing regular anti-pirates operations right now? From what I saw, not many, and their numbers is dwarfed by the number of pirates out there. Why is there so few real anti-pirate pvpers? I think that's because catching a pirate is way too hard.
- They can see an incoming force with scouts, and run. - They can dock just as fast as any other player. - Those with the mindset to hunt pirates, usually end up pvping in 0.0 space, where they'll find combat more often.
Bottom line, if you want to make players police themselves, you need to give them practical ways to catch pirates, not just scare them into docking in a station.
Another thing: Yesterday I saw an pirate Astarte tank the gate sentries of a 0.4 system. From what I saw of his armor bar, he could repair almost twice the HP that what he was losing to the sentries. And an astarte isn't exactly the strongest tank out there... So maybe it's time to bring sentries on par with modern warfare? Their dps hasn't been boosted when ships gained in tanking ability, nor has their range been increased when 160-180km optimal became the norm of T2 gunships...
------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane. |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Becq Starforged on 19/03/2007 21:02:18 Ok, most of what Oveur posted sounds reasonable, from my mission-running perspective. But a couple of things I wanted to remark on:
Quote: You'll get escalations in missions.
I really dislike the way escalations are handled at the moment. My primary concern is that the time limits placed on escalations is painful for "casual" gamers. With escalations, not only do we need to allocate the time for the mission, but we also need to allocate time for a random number of followup missions. I like the *concept* of escallations, but the timer needs to be removed; make the followup missions work similarly to storyarc missions, where the next mission simply becomes available and remains so for a week. This also allows us to find backup, since these missions are inevitably in low-sec or 0.0, even if the original loaction was in high-sec.
Quote: The only difference is that we're not creating ISK out of thin air from CONCORD (Infusion) but rather giving you perishable items (Sink) which other players pay you for.
This sort of approach is great. I would love, for example, to be able to 'buy' Republic Fleet faction equipment from my Republic Fleet agent, with (a suitable large number of) LPs. Just out of curiousity, though -- why did you ever *remove* this concept from missions? My agents used to routinely give me goods in place of cash as mission awards. I remember constantly ragging on my agents for paying me crap (fertilizer)...
Quote: But is there PVP in low security? Absolutely. We entered an entirely different discussion about low security policing, and that we want it to be done by players. And we would reward them for it. A very reasonable sentiment was that "I don't want to police, I don't have the time" and so on. Perfectly understandable.
But here comes the thing. The policing is done by players and player organizations that want to play EVE that way. The ones that enjoy chasing down player pirates and providing havens where they benefit from having pilots basing their operations from.
I think that if you expext this to happen on any significant scale (and moreso, to be effective to any extent) you are deluding yourself. Alliances in 0.0 can accomplish this (at least to some extent), using tools that aren't available to low-sec pirate hunters: bubble camps, generally restricted pathways, and (often) NBSI. In addition, they are rewarded for doing so, because (for example) tenant miners refine ore in their stations, and they get a cut of the proceeds. None of this is true in low-sec; most importantly there is little payoff for going after pirates. Even bounties are ineffective, as the pirates themselves can harvest that money.
Why not make pirate-hunting more valuable? What if, for example, any time a pirate's ship was destroyed, half of the value of ship destroyed was paid as a bounty to the hunter, and the insurance value of the pirate ship (if any) was reduced by the same amount? -- Becq Starforged proprietor of Starforge Industries, a subsidiary of Minmatar Ship Construction Services
At Starforge Industries, the world of tomorrow is being blown apart today! |
Tehyarec
Erasers inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tehyarec on 19/03/2007 21:00:19
Originally by: Gen Maton The Dev blog link links to the incorrect Dev blog, fyi. (in the original post)
No it doesn't? It links to the previous blog that was the basis of the new one, like the text implies and like it should be.
That aside, interesting blog, especially the "player police" caught my eye, might be interesting if properly implemented.
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Quutar
Caldari Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering
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Posted - 2007.03.19 21:05:00 -
[18]
being dynamic is good... same old same old can get boring
I am looking forward to seeing what changes are made, but mainly to the exploration side of things.
Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services. |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.03.19 21:32:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Frug on 19/03/2007 21:30:59 As a 6 month old player and relatively new and avid forum monkey/blog reader I'd like to say that this is one of the best blogs I've read. Why? Because of the tone it takes and because it's specifically responding to things people have been debating, which is not always the case. The patch also looks like it has some nice fixes.
I'm an avid mission runner and carebear and I really look forward to the work you're putting into missions. It sounds great. I definitely don't agree with what some other players are expressing on this front of the game. "CCP hates missioners" and "it's not profitable enough" doesn't make sense to me. The devaluation of loot, the fact that I'm reprocessing most of it because it sells for such low amounts (in citadel/forge) is a problem because it seems like most modules have become literally garbage. But I suspect the tweaks you are doing will actually help this. ie. fewer but harder rats => less loot flooding markets => t1 bpos more valued.
I do share a concern about going into low sec but we'll see how that pans out. You want us missioners there ganging up to defend ourselves? Maybe it'll work.
I have yet to try exploration, like many people I know. It seems a little intimidating to start something new and potentially dangerous. I look at exploration and think "is it really worth it? Should I risk all this time reading guides and risk going into low sec to try this mini profession? In my expensive pve ship no less?"
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Zae'dra Xanthe
Fist of the Goat
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Posted - 2007.03.19 21:37:00 -
[20]
I'll take a nifty piece of loot over a NPC bounty any day. I really liked this blog, seemed to answer questions vs. leaving us wondering.
Thanks!
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Elrinarie
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.19 21:44:00 -
[21]
my biggest question is about standings with concord?
Without an isk bounty on the rats, how are we to regain good standings with concord? Creator of another Mining Calculator |
Koronos
Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.19 22:16:00 -
[22]
Great to hear when community concerns and comments are listened to.
Koronos
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Idara
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.03.19 22:29:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Idara on 19/03/2007 22:26:00 Fix the damn, dirty, stupid, broken loot tables first if you want players to believe you when it comes to "items over ISK" thing.
You still get retarded "drops" of 100 Defenders or 1mn Afterburner Is from BS sized mission rats now, this was supposed to be fixed in what, Exodus? Apparently you've made excuses that "there are so many tables" for the loot, suck it up and fix it if you want people to not feel that they're getting the shaft.
Only reason I loot missions is my second account, if it was just me, it's not worth the time to go back and loot an Extravaganza for the very, very, very rare chance that something half decent will drop.
TD;DR version: Fix the loot tables before removing ISK bounties. ---
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.19 22:35:00 -
[24]
Wow. After 630 comments, the majority of it was just people complaining about missions? Nothing about PVP, pirating, invention, or anything other than missions?
I guess the most vocal group in the game are the mission whiners.
Life Begins at -10!
FIX RECON PROBES |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.19 22:45:00 -
[25]
"This is where the whole inflation thing comes in. Printing large sums of money is bad. That is inserting new ISK into the economy. We want to change it so that the higher end players are not the source of ISK into the economy, the higher end players get their ISK from the other players."
So where does the ISK come from? -AS |
Juntos
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Posted - 2007.03.19 22:47:00 -
[26]
Glad to see you guys listening, looking forward to seeing the new changes.
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killmc
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:00:00 -
[27]
sad to see that mish are dead with out isk from kill over 75% of mish runers are going to stop you have to have isk printer as mish loot been joke from day 1 2 with out that income more and more player are just going to quit not like mining can make anythang now you pull the print press besuce you say there to much isk in eve wtf are you thanging isk from kill is why more player run mish than trying to get jump clones or fatson bs most of us do it as a form of paying for ships mods and so on so by takeing that away you have doomed eve to fall
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:01:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Pilk on 19/03/2007 22:57:50 silly case sensitivity
Originally by: Oveur (Srsly. Hundreds).
Fixed it for you. There's a Hundreds link, too ("At least 100 years ago"), but it features goatse, so I won't post the link.
--P
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Epitrope
The Citadel Manufacturing and Trade Corporation
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:04:00 -
[29]
Does this mean that agent missions will soon have (perhaps optional) cans that need hacking or archaeology? Oveur seemed to hint at this in the dev blog, but didn't really say it outright.
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.19 23:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
Quote: This is where the whole inflation thing comes in. Printing large sums of money is bad. That is inserting new ISK into the economy. We want to change it so that the higher end players are not the source of ISK into the economy, the higher end players get their ISK from the other players.
Could you please clarify on the ambiguity of 'higher end', and how this could in theory be achieved?; It would be possible to end up with something like 'higher end mining' throwing a spanner in the works by either a) cause a flattening in the price distribution of minerals, or b) higher-end mining dissapearing, causing a mono-type of ore refine types across the universe, devaluing part of the strategic value of holding 0.0 space.
Um, what? Mining (unless you're selling mins or finished goods to an NPC buy order) is exactly what he says--a miner gets his isk from other players.
I thought you guys were the uber economics alliance! :\
--P
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