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Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 01:55:24 -
[1] - Quote
Years ago, CCP got rid of the "Loading" screens....
Any game mechanic that has you sitting around waiting for some stupid timer needs involve lynching and pitchforks. Makes corp deployments PAINFUL and the game much less fun to play when you have to jump and wait out timers. What a HORRIBLE idea.... please kill that mechanic. |
Cade Windstalker
1426
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 02:20:21 -
[2] - Quote
We've been over this so much the horse isn't just fertilizer it's an apple tree.
Jump Fatigue sucks, having people being able to quickly and effortlessly move Capitals around the game sucks worse. No one wants everywhere in Eve to be less than 15 minutes away from PL or Goons' staging system.
A lot of alternatives have been discussed, every one has either had worse downsides for gameplay or has been fairly easily exploitable to move force around extremely easily. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
473
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 06:26:34 -
[3] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:Years ago, CCP got rid of the "Loading" screens....
Any game mechanic that has you sitting around waiting for some stupid timer needs involve lynching and pitchforks. Makes corp deployments PAINFUL and the game much less fun to play when you have to jump and wait out timers. What a HORRIBLE idea.... please kill that mechanic. You do realise that you wait just as long without the loading screens as before, right?
All that CCP did was hide them with a pretty graphic.
At no point in the history of gaming has a loading screen been a gameplay mechanic. |
Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:02:40 -
[4] - Quote
There are some excellent alternatives ;) Change the Jump fatigue to a "mode" for ships used in force projection. A carrier/dread should be able to jump once weapons ready. "Jump Fatigue" (and the factors that reduce it for some ships vs. others) makes no sense, is immersion breaking and makes us "space faring" capsules sound like we get dizzy in space travel. It's an ill conceived, knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of whining. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5455
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:14:43 -
[5] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:There are some excellent alternatives ;) Change the Jump fatigue to a "mode" for ships used in force projection. A carrier/dread should be able to jump once weapons ready. "Jump Fatigue" (and the factors that reduce it for some ships vs. others) makes no sense, is immersion breaking and makes us "space faring" capsules sound like we get dizzy in space travel. It's an ill conceived, knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of whining.
200 pl and/or goon supercaps dropping in on literally every fight with more than one carrier in it, empires extending from Branch to Period Basis, or from Paragn Soul to Geminate being traversable in ~20 minutes and a grand total of two nullsec entities (three if you count CVA I suppose) was kind of not great for the game. |
Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:22:02 -
[6] - Quote
You do realise that you wait just as long without the loading screens as before, right?
All that CCP did was hide them with a pretty graphic.
At no point in the history of gaming has a loading screen been a gameplay mechanic. [/quote]
My point wasn't the difference between loading screens and game mechanics. My point was that CCP was working to get rid of immersion breaking crap (like loading screens).
Jump Fatigue is immersion breaking crap. Sitting around wait for some stupid timer to expire so you can keep moving stuff around the universe adds an undue burden to a process that is already painful. If CCP is going to insist that jump fatigue has to stay, then give us something to do while we wait. 10 Minutes on a cyno generator and jump fatigue are in the same school of crappy mechanics that do nothing to increase game enjoyment.
Consequently, it's easy to avert the jump fatigue and simply train multiple toons who can fly the same ship. Something I am sure CCP enjoys since that will encourage more spending by players to work around the stupid mechanics of the game. My corp, for example, has a crap load of alts... who can all fly jump freighters. They simply, strategically, place their alts and hand the ship over from toon to toon... essentially avoiding the mechanic all together. The same for the carriers.
My point is that the mechanic is crap, pointless, and dull adding more drudgery to the game play. |
Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:25:28 -
[7] - Quote
200 pl and/or goon supercaps dropping in on literally every fight with more than one carrier in it, empires extending from Branch to Period Basis, or from Paragn Soul to Geminate being traversable in ~20 minutes and a grand total of two nullsec entities (three if you count CVA I suppose) was kind of not great for the game.[/quote]
Do you honestly believe that jump fatigue stops force projection? These larger entities easily overcome the problem by having multiple toons who can fly the same ships. CCP is just encouraging more spending to get around their idiot mechanics... Nice little revenue stream. It's easy to hand the ship between those toons... voila! problem overcome.
Just spend more money ;)
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5455
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:29:37 -
[8] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:
Do you honestly believe that jump fatigue stops force projection? These larger entities easily overcome the problem by having multiple toons who can fly the same ships. CCP is just encouraging more spending to get around their idiot mechanics... Nice little revenue stream. It's easy to hand the ship between those toons... voila! problem overcome.
Just spend more money ;)
Yes, jump fatigue DOES stop it. That is not what we do at all, and I am saying this as a person with four capital pilot characters, and a member of one of said larger entities. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
473
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:31:56 -
[9] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:You do realise that you wait just as long without the loading screens as before, right?
All that CCP did was hide them with a pretty graphic.
At no point in the history of gaming has a loading screen been a gameplay mechanic.
My point wasn't the difference between loading screens and game mechanics. My point was that CCP was working to get rid of immersion breaking crap (like loading screens).
Jump Fatigue is immersion breaking crap. Sitting around wait for some stupid timer to expire so you can keep moving stuff around the universe adds an undue burden to a process that is already painful. If CCP is going to insist that jump fatigue has to stay, then give us something to do while we wait. 10 Minutes on a cyno generator and jump fatigue are in the same school of crappy mechanics that do nothing to increase game enjoyment.
Consequently, it's easy to avert the jump fatigue and simply train multiple toons who can fly the same ship. Something I am sure CCP enjoys since that will encourage more spending by players to work around the stupid mechanics of the game. My corp, for example, has a crap load of alts... who can all fly jump freighters. They simply, strategically, place their alts and hand the ship over from toon to toon... essentially avoiding the mechanic all together. The same for the carriers.
My point is that the mechanic is crap, pointless, and dull adding more drudgery to the game play.[/quote] Jump drives are immersion breaking crap. CCP should remove them completely.
I can talk complete nonsense too. Completely subjective nonsense. |
Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:42:26 -
[10] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Yarr Bait wrote:
Do you honestly believe that jump fatigue stops force projection? These larger entities easily overcome the problem by having multiple toons who can fly the same ships. CCP is just encouraging more spending to get around their idiot mechanics... Nice little revenue stream. It's easy to hand the ship between those toons... voila! problem overcome.
Just spend more money ;)
Yes, jump fatigue DOES stop it. That is not what we do at all, and I am saying this as a person with four capital pilot characters, and a member of one of said larger entities.
I guess we've seen different things ;)
CCP has been good at balance. The balance for force projection is not to penalize all the jump ships in the game. The key is in methods of countering force projection. Cyno disruption (chance based redirection of jump ships) and so on. Something like a cyno counter mod that can fire off when a cyno goes up in system and so on. Force projection is the problem, and the fix is not a bunch of dizzy/fatigued space pilots. |
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Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:44:33 -
[11] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:Yarr Bait wrote:My point wasn't the difference between loading screens and game mechanics. My point was that CCP was working to get rid of immersion breaking crap (like loading screens).
Jump Fatigue is immersion breaking crap. Sitting around wait for some stupid timer to expire so you can keep moving stuff around the universe adds an undue burden to a process that is already painful. If CCP is going to insist that jump fatigue has to stay, then give us something to do while we wait. 10 Minutes on a cyno generator and jump fatigue are in the same school of crappy mechanics that do nothing to increase game enjoyment.
Consequently, it's easy to avert the jump fatigue and simply train multiple toons who can fly the same ship. Something I am sure CCP enjoys since that will encourage more spending by players to work around the stupid mechanics of the game. My corp, for example, has a crap load of alts... who can all fly jump freighters. They simply, strategically, place their alts and hand the ship over from toon to toon... essentially avoiding the mechanic all together. The same for the carriers.
My point is that the mechanic is crap, pointless, and dull adding more drudgery to the game play. Jump drives are immersion breaking crap. CCP should remove them completely.I can talk complete nonsense too. Completely subjective nonsense.
Thank you for the demonstration ;) |
Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 13:50:02 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Yarr Bait wrote:There are some excellent alternatives ;) Change the Jump fatigue to a "mode" for ships used in force projection. A carrier/dread should be able to jump once weapons ready. "Jump Fatigue" (and the factors that reduce it for some ships vs. others) makes no sense, is immersion breaking and makes us "space faring" capsules sound like we get dizzy in space travel. It's an ill conceived, knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of whining. 200 pl and/or goon supercaps dropping in on literally every fight with more than one carrier in it, empires extending from Branch to Period Basis, or from Paragn Soul to Geminate being traversable in ~20 minutes and a grand total of two nullsec entities (three if you count CVA I suppose) was kind of not great for the game.
I don't disagree with you there. But the key should be counter-tactics not dizzy pilots. |
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 19:44:14 -
[13] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Yarr Bait wrote:There are some excellent alternatives ;) Change the Jump fatigue to a "mode" for ships used in force projection. A carrier/dread should be able to jump once weapons ready. "Jump Fatigue" (and the factors that reduce it for some ships vs. others) makes no sense, is immersion breaking and makes us "space faring" capsules sound like we get dizzy in space travel. It's an ill conceived, knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of whining. 200 pl and/or goon supercaps dropping in on literally every fight with more than one carrier in it, empires extending from Branch to Period Basis, or from Paragn Soul to Geminate being traversable in ~20 minutes and a grand total of two nullsec entities (three if you count CVA I suppose) was kind of not great for the game. I don't disagree with you there. But the key should be counter-tactics not dizzy pilots.
One can agree or not as to whether the method chosen to restrict force protection to reasonable levels was a good or wise one. They tried for a long time not to bring the hammer down, but as absolutely no self restraint was shown they were forced to take action for the overall health of the game.
I am certain that they like having to do it even less than we do having it, they did not wish to invite all that rage , whining and complaining upon them selves by the player base.
Hopefully someone smart will discover or invent an alternative, that achieves the goals, in a more engaging manner, but until that day, this is what we have.
We also have a responsibility to show self restraint, whether it is power projection, wormhole evictions, or wardecc kill farming. If we do not, then CCP are forced to act even if they do NOT want to.
This is why we sometimes cannot have nice things if our entire goal is to use them to bash balance into a bloody pulp.
|
Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 20:05:26 -
[14] - Quote
Alderson Point wrote:Yarr Bait wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Yarr Bait wrote:There are some excellent alternatives ;) Change the Jump fatigue to a "mode" for ships used in force projection. A carrier/dread should be able to jump once weapons ready. "Jump Fatigue" (and the factors that reduce it for some ships vs. others) makes no sense, is immersion breaking and makes us "space faring" capsules sound like we get dizzy in space travel. It's an ill conceived, knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of whining. 200 pl and/or goon supercaps dropping in on literally every fight with more than one carrier in it, empires extending from Branch to Period Basis, or from Paragn Soul to Geminate being traversable in ~20 minutes and a grand total of two nullsec entities (three if you count CVA I suppose) was kind of not great for the game. I don't disagree with you there. But the key should be counter-tactics not dizzy pilots. One can agree or not as to whether the method chosen to restrict force protection to reasonable levels was a good or wise one. They tried for a long time not to bring the hammer down, but as absolutely no self restraint was shown they were forced to take action for the overall health of the game. I am certain that they like having to do it even less than we do having it, they did not wish to invite all that rage , whining and complaining upon them selves by the player base. Hopefully someone smart will discover or invent an alternative, that achieves the goals, in a more engaging manner, but until that day, this is what we have. We also have a responsibility to show self restraint, whether it is power projection, wormhole evictions, or wardecc kill farming. If we do not, then CCP are forced to act even if they do NOT want to. This is why we sometimes cannot have nice things if our entire goal is to use them to bash balance into a bloody pulp.
They should focus just on force projection rather than punishing all of the jump ships in the game. There are far many more uses for a jump drive than to move a "gun" to a battle... Just lazy of CCP. There are far more nails in the coffin than force projection at this point... CCP caving to "pay-to-win", skill injectors and the like... |
Kenrailae
The Scope Gallente Federation
768
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 20:18:19 -
[15] - Quote
*nostalgically remembers a time in Eve where you planned every capital drop to be done in 15 minutes, because that's how long it took any and all of the super cap blobs to move across the map... and watching the cyno chains light on the map as they moved closer to you*
Oh wait, did I say Nostalgically... my bad. Fatigue is a pain in the ass, but it did a very good job of making force projection much more difficult. There are still ways around it, true, but they are much more difficult and involved, and are still not as quick nor reliable as what was. But it accomplished its objectives in stopping there being basically 3 large super blobs and one dread blob sitting around waiting for anything anywhere to happen in New Eden, then all chaining over to drop on it.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
|
oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
175
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 20:27:51 -
[16] - Quote
Low Sec has seen a lot more local Capital action as well, without the worry of being 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th,... and etc partied on a slow weekend because a carrier bumped off the docking ring on jump-in.
Yes, it did happen. a few times.
|
Lothros Andastar
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
246
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 21:25:30 -
[17] - Quote
You do realise that Industrial ships have a 90% reduction in fatigue, to the point where you're waiting at MOST 10 mins between jumps for fatigueless travel? |
Cade Windstalker
1430
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 04:56:05 -
[18] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:There are some excellent alternatives ;) Change the Jump fatigue to a "mode" for ships used in force projection. A carrier/dread should be able to jump once weapons ready. "Jump Fatigue" (and the factors that reduce it for some ships vs. others) makes no sense, is immersion breaking and makes us "space faring" capsules sound like we get dizzy in space travel. It's an ill conceived, knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of whining.
So, in order:
"Travel mode" has been proposed. This was one of the first things proposed as an alternative and every thread where it's been seriously discussed has ripped it to shreds. Some common points/issue include but are not limited to:
- Putting the mode or limit on the ship encourages "travel pilots" that move the ship independent of the combat pilots.
- If you make it super fast and easy to move the hulls around you make it amazingly easy to redeploy forces, something CCP explicitly wanted to prevent. Power projection is not just hot-drop o'clock.
- Options that might alleviate either of these end up locking down the ship or the pilot for an inordinate amount of time because it has to be balanced for the worst case of use, not the average which is quite small.
Every version of this discussion has circled back around to something very close to Jump Fatigue in terms of mechanics, effect, and implementation. Like I said, apple tree. A quick search of the forums can find you any number of threads on this topic.
Yarr Bait wrote:Jump Fatigue is immersion breaking crap. Sitting around wait for some stupid timer to expire so you can keep moving stuff around the universe adds an undue burden to a process that is already painful. If CCP is going to insist that jump fatigue has to stay, then give us something to do while we wait. 10 Minutes on a cyno generator and jump fatigue are in the same school of crappy mechanics that do nothing to increase game enjoyment.
Nothing is ever going to be not immersion breaking for everyone. Everyone is going to have some mechanic or thing that had to be added for gameplay reasons that they either don't like and dress up that dislike as "it breaks immersion!" or they just can't countenance the mechanical necessity with their views on how the game world should work.
This won't be the first time it happens and it won't be the last. It certainly won't be the last time "it breaks my immersion" is not sufficient reason for a bad gameplay decision.
Yarr Bait wrote:Do you honestly believe that jump fatigue stops force projection? These larger entities easily overcome the problem by having multiple toons who can fly the same ships. CCP is just encouraging more spending to get around their idiot mechanics... Nice little revenue stream. It's easy to hand the ship between those toons... voila! problem overcome.
Just spend more money ;)
Yeah this is just flatly false. These days if someone wants to drop more than two midpoints from staging they need to play at least a week in advance even with Dread-caches and other fun tricks like that.
The reality is that stuff like this is really expensive in time and resources, even for the major entities, and there's a good chance that if the person you're dropping has any kind of potential force advantage you could get pasted completely because you misjudged the numbers and don't have a Super fleet ready to bail you out.
You know, because it's 10 jumps and four days away on the other side of the game.
There may eventually come a time when this becomes a problem, but we'll nuke that bridge when we get to it. In the meantime the system works, and that is the consensus of the vast majority of Null groups, even the ones who *hate it* and railed against it saying it would do nothing and/or kill Cap use.
The reality is that we've actually had *more* cap and super use since Jump Fatigue went into the game, and more of these ships are killing stuff and dying hilariously than before the changes. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3957
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 07:25:31 -
[19] - Quote
CCP actually want to make industrial ships pay full fatigue also, but didn't want to do that till null industry was up & running. Given there more recent figures showing a large portion of industry running now, there is a strong potential that it runs the other way and it gets harder, not easier, since you will have no need to do all your shipping and can produce everything locally. |
Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 17:49:10 -
[20] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Yarr Bait wrote:There are some excellent alternatives ;) Change the Jump fatigue to a "mode" for ships used in force projection. A carrier/dread should be able to jump once weapons ready. "Jump Fatigue" (and the factors that reduce it for some ships vs. others) makes no sense, is immersion breaking and makes us "space faring" capsules sound like we get dizzy in space travel. It's an ill conceived, knee-jerk reaction to a bunch of whining. So, in order: "Travel mode" has been proposed. This was one of the first things proposed as an alternative and every thread where it's been seriously discussed has ripped it to shreds. Some common points/issue include but are not limited to:
- Putting the mode or limit on the ship encourages "travel pilots" that move the ship independent of the combat pilots.
- If you make it super fast and easy to move the hulls around you make it amazingly easy to redeploy forces, something CCP explicitly wanted to prevent. Power projection is not just hot-drop o'clock.
- Options that might alleviate either of these end up locking down the ship or the pilot for an inordinate amount of time because it has to be balanced for the worst case of use, not the average which is quite small.
Every version of this discussion has circled back around to something very close to Jump Fatigue in terms of mechanics, effect, and implementation. Like I said, apple tree. A quick search of the forums can find you any number of threads on this topic. Yarr Bait wrote:Jump Fatigue is immersion breaking crap. Sitting around wait for some stupid timer to expire so you can keep moving stuff around the universe adds an undue burden to a process that is already painful. If CCP is going to insist that jump fatigue has to stay, then give us something to do while we wait. 10 Minutes on a cyno generator and jump fatigue are in the same school of crappy mechanics that do nothing to increase game enjoyment. Nothing is ever going to be not immersion breaking for everyone. Everyone is going to have some mechanic or thing that had to be added for gameplay reasons that they either don't like and dress up that dislike as "it breaks immersion!" or they just can't countenance the mechanical necessity with their views on how the game world should work. This won't be the first time it happens and it won't be the last. It certainly won't be the last time "it breaks my immersion" is not sufficient reason for a bad gameplay decision. Yarr Bait wrote:Do you honestly believe that jump fatigue stops force projection? These larger entities easily overcome the problem by having multiple toons who can fly the same ships. CCP is just encouraging more spending to get around their idiot mechanics... Nice little revenue stream. It's easy to hand the ship between those toons... voila! problem overcome.
Just spend more money ;)
Yeah this is just flatly false. These days if someone wants to drop more than two midpoints from staging they need to play at least a week in advance even with Dread-caches and other fun tricks like that. The reality is that stuff like this is really expensive in time and resources, even for the major entities, and there's a good chance that if the person you're dropping has any kind of potential force advantage you could get pasted completely because you misjudged the numbers and don't have a Super fleet ready to bail you out. You know, because it's 10 jumps and four days away on the other side of the game. There may eventually come a time when this becomes a problem, but we'll nuke that bridge when we get to it. In the meantime the system works, and that is the consensus of the vast majority of Null groups, even the ones who *hate it* and railed against it saying it would do nothing and/or kill Cap use. The reality is that we've actually had *more* cap and super use since Jump Fatigue went into the game, and more of these ships are killing stuff and dying hilariously than before the changes.
Not flatly false ;) I have watched in action more than once. That's how we manage our jump freighters by passing toon to toon. We've jumped the fatigue hurdle a number of times and it's not that hard... but as you say, you do have to move stuff around. It's more painful for the single toon accounts which is where the revenue comes in for CCP. While it may not be logistically feasible to do force projection by handing ships off, it is very easy to do jump freighters and using carriers for logistics... as you have a set path and pre-determined route.
So, maybe false to you... but not for me watching it happen.
Thanks for the input though. I still argue that counter-tactics are the better solution than forcing everyone into fatigue. |
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5460
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 17:57:39 -
[21] - Quote
Why would you need to do that with a jump freighter? Don't they have 90% fatigue reduction anyway? You just wait ~5 minutes until your timer is under 10 mins and jump again. |
Yarr Bait
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 18:13:29 -
[22] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Why would you need to do that with a jump freighter? Don't they have 90% fatigue reduction anyway? You just wait ~5 minutes until your timer is under 10 mins and jump again.
Well, when you're moving an entire corp around, we used to be able to jump at will without waiting. If you jump, say three times in succession (orange timer expires), you have an hour blue timer with a quickly escalating orange timer. Hence, you sit while the timer wears off. Where we used to be able to complete a corp move in a few days, it is now stretching into weeks when we don't have all of our alt-bearing accounts online.
It's positively maddening having to sit around just for some stupid timer to drop. |
Cade Windstalker
1431
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 20:18:12 -
[23] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:Not flatly false ;) I have watched in action more than once. That's how we manage our jump freighters by passing toon to toon. We've jumped the fatigue hurdle a number of times and it's not that hard... but as you say, you do have to move stuff around. It's more painful for the single toon accounts which is where the revenue comes in for CCP. While it may not be logistically feasible to do force projection by handing ships off, it is very easy to do jump freighters and using carriers for logistics... as you have a set path and pre-determined route.
So, maybe false to you... but not for me watching it happen.
Thanks for the input though. I still argue that counter-tactics are the better solution than forcing everyone into fatigue.
The training time for even a maxed out Jump Freighter pilot is a couple of months, the training time for an even halfway competent dread pilot is like 10. Plus you need a lot more of them where as with the setup you're talking about you basically just need to move the pilots when you're setting up the Citadels you're jumping to.
While I don't think that kind of workaround is great, I can't think of a good way around it and I'm not generally in favor of making Logistics people go crazy. After all you can't kill much with a Freighter.
Yarr Bait wrote:Well, when you're moving an entire corp around, we used to be able to jump at will without waiting. If you jump, say three times in succession (orange timer expires), you have an hour blue timer with a quickly escalating orange timer. Hence, you sit while the timer wears off. Where we used to be able to complete a corp move in a few days, it is now stretching into weeks when we don't have all of our alt-bearing accounts online.
It's positively maddening having to sit around just for some stupid timer to drop.
If this was as easy to get around as you're implying it is this wouldn't be an issue.
While I think everyone agrees that Jump Fatigue isn't an ideal mechanic the alternatives are even less ideal. |
Nalena Linova
Virtus Crusade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 00:27:36 -
[24] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Why would you need to do that with a jump freighter? Don't they have 90% fatigue reduction anyway? You just wait ~5 minutes until your timer is under 10 mins and jump again. Well, when you're moving an entire corp around, we used to be able to jump at will without waiting. If you jump, say three times in succession (orange timer expires), you have an hour blue timer with a quickly escalating orange timer. Hence, you sit while the timer wears off. Where we used to be able to complete a corp move in a few days, it is now stretching into weeks when we don't have all of our alt-bearing accounts online. It's positively maddening having to sit around just for some stupid timer to drop.
I didn't realise the School of Applied Knowledge did a lot of whole corp redeployments. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 09:06:33 -
[25] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:We've been over this so much the horse isn't just fertilizer it's an apple tree.
Jump Fatigue sucks, having people being able to quickly and effortlessly move Capitals around the game sucks worse. No one wants everywhere in Eve to be less than 15 minutes away from PL or Goons' staging system.
A lot of alternatives have been discussed, every one has either had worse downsides for gameplay or has been fairly easily exploitable to move force around extremely easily.
And besides...go look at Verite's maps before fatiuge and after fatigue....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3333
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 12:54:11 -
[26] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Why would you need to do that with a jump freighter? Don't they have 90% fatigue reduction anyway? You just wait ~5 minutes until your timer is under 10 mins and jump again. Well, when you're moving an entire corp around, we used to be able to jump at will without waiting. If you jump, say three times in succession (orange timer expires), you have an hour blue timer with a quickly escalating orange timer. Hence, you sit while the timer wears off. Where we used to be able to complete a corp move in a few days, it is now stretching into weeks when we don't have all of our alt-bearing accounts online. It's positively maddening having to sit around just for some stupid timer to drop.
What you used to be able to do is completely irrelevant now. Stop thinking of "what wee used to be able to do" because those time are gone. Returning to this would bring back major problems that finally got nailed when they introduced jump fatigue. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1228
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 13:25:55 -
[27] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:They should focus just on force projection rather than punishing all of the jump ships in the game. There are far many more uses for a jump drive than to move a "gun" to a battle... Just lazy of CCP. There are far more nails in the coffin than force projection at this point... CCP caving to "pay-to-win", skill injectors and the like... Oh ye of little understanding, "force" as it is applied to this game and jump fatigue is not restricted to ships with guns or missiles. In this context "force" is a generic term involving ALL of the ships that may make up a fighting force and they include but are not limited to ships with guns or missiles. Cargo ships of all shapes and sizes used to haul ammo, replacement ships and all manor of other materials needed as well as the logistics ships used to rep the fleet during the battle are ALL part of the "force". So the answer is yes ALL ships need to be affected in one way or another by jump fatigue. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1228
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Posted - 2017.04.24 13:45:34 -
[28] - Quote
Yarr Bait wrote:It's positively maddening having to sit around just for some stupid timer to drop. Blame those who came before you and abused the hell out of the ability to jump from anywhere to anywhere in EvE in a matter of minutes for your frustration and your time wasted waiting for "some stupid timer" to expire because those players are the ones that brought this on all of us.
On the other hand this is just a game and there are many things far more important you could be doing with that time, things other than sitting around watching "some stupid timer" and getting mad, here is just a partial list of possible options. Sit with your favorite beverage and read a good book, if you do not know any I am sure there are many others here like me that could recommend more than a few.
Sit with friends and enjoy that beverage and a chance to just talk to one another.
Spend that time helping at a local food bank or other charitable cause that seems worthwhile to you, they can all use the help.
Load up another character and go and do something else instead of staring at timer you cannot do anything about, or perhaps spend the time playing another game or watching a movie.
Yarr Bait wrote:Well, when you're moving an entire corp around, we used to be able to jump at will without waiting. If you jump, say three times in succession (orange timer expires), you have an hour blue timer with a quickly escalating orange timer. Hence, you sit while the timer wears off. Where we used to be able to complete a corp move in a few days, it is now stretching into weeks when we don't have all of our alt-bearing accounts online. Thank you for the perfect description of how and why we have jump fatigue. I guess you are one of those we can blame for it being introduced into the game.
On the other hand if you think moving an entire corp while working within the limits of jump fatigue is tough, try moving a 200 character high sec corp with 15 POS, related add on's and more than 5 million units of minerals more then 30 jumps across the EvE universe WITHOUT jump capable ships and then come back and talk to us about how tough it is for you now.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3333
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Posted - 2017.04.24 19:24:21 -
[29] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Yarr Bait wrote:It's positively maddening having to sit around just for some stupid timer to drop. Blame those who came before you and abused the hell out of the ability to jump from anywhere to anywhere in EvE in a matter of minutes for your frustration and your time wasted waiting for "some stupid timer" to expire because those players are the ones that brought this on all of us.
That's a point that is rarely said but very few people complained about jump ranges until it all became 2 empires and caps were used for helicopter dicking on everything everywhere. |
Old Pervert
Perkone Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 21:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:We've been over this so much the horse isn't just fertilizer it's an apple tree.
Jump Fatigue sucks, having people being able to quickly and effortlessly move Capitals around the game sucks worse. No one wants everywhere in Eve to be less than 15 minutes away from PL or Goons' staging system.
A lot of alternatives have been discussed, every one has either had worse downsides for gameplay or has been fairly easily exploitable to move force around extremely easily. Well..
PL and Goons want everywhere in Eve to be less than 15 minutes away from their staging system. Everyone else would rather it not... |
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