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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
hotdickingsforall
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Posted - 2008.10.24 14:28:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Lufio II I am not sure about this, but I read from the dev blog that this ship is basically giving the same type of bonus as the Rorqual, just a bit less, without the need of deploying it with an industrial core? Doesn't make this the Rorqual in its current state a bit useless in the first place in comparison (if you don't need the ore compression feature in the first place due to having a station in the same system and such?
You are missing the simple fact that it can go into high sec...............
Yeah not to mention I t does not make the rorq useless in the least way. Obviously you have never worked with 0.0 major industry, it is the combination of the rorqs ores compression and good jump distance that make it far better in low sec the orca, which would basically be a great bigf target. And I imagine even in empire they will make great targets just like freighters for war dec'ers :) |
Gerardd
Caldari Khanid Division
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Posted - 2008.10.24 14:29:00 -
[272]
What an absolutely beautiful ship!!! I want one. Badly. One question though. It seems not possible to fit a capital tractor beam given the powergrid availability Is that on purpose or an oversight? |
Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.24 14:32:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Gerardd One question though. It seems not possible to fit a capital tractor beam given the powergrid availability Is that on purpose or an oversight?
Current intention is that it uses the Small Tractor Beam I. The role bonuses result in a 70km range, and a tractor speed of 1km/s.
The hull has a base targeting range of 60km though. You'll need to train Long Range Targeting IV to get the full 70km, or fit a sensor booster. |
Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.10.24 14:35:00 -
[274]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
...
Very. very strange changes. You said that this one should be a minifreighter by second "specialization" but it is not exactly that we see and those changes put it even futher from minifreighter path. Is it possible then to give us real minifreighter than for non-miner characters? |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:00:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 24/10/2008 14:59:42
Originally by: Gerardd What an absolutely beautiful ship!!! I want one. Badly. One question though. It seems not possible to fit a capital tractor beam given the powergrid availability Is that on purpose or an oversight?
It seems intentional given the bonuses apply to regular tractor beams, and this way they don't have to give it capital ship grid (which would mean it could fit things like cap shield boosters etc) |
Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:10:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Gilgamoth
I must admit I've just done the sums and I'm horrified! If the numbers on Sisi were to be believed, it looks like it's gonna cost around 450m to make, but cost you 9bil ISK for all the BPO's to make one. All the BPO's to build a freighter are only about 7b ISK. This make Gil cry
Regards,
Gil
Personally, I"m less concerned about the total and more about the distrubution. I would have liked to see a few high cost and low cost BPO requirements so that young builders could contribute too. This ship is just itching for small alliances to work on (who don't have a need for dreads/moms/etc) but it doesn't distrubte very well.
Actually, what would be cool, is if it had a large number of types of components needed, say, 10-20. Right now, with enough ISK, a single toon could do ALL the research and manufacturing for this ship. Plenty of work for miners of course, but only enough room for a single researcher or builder on a project like this.
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Falun Assad
Caldari Shadows of the Dead Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:21:00 -
[277]
Actually i would like to see its cargobay reduces to something around 5000m¦ and its corp hangar array increased to 125000 m¦, this way npc farmers wont be able to use it.....
actually doing something comparable to all Exhumers and introduction of the long desired fix to the wardec system would screw farmers pretty good.... |
Mikal Drey
Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:21:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 24/10/2008 15:21:55
Originally by: Darth Felin
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
...
Very. very strange changes. You said that this one should be a minifreighter by second "specialization" but it is not exactly that we see and those changes put it even futher from minifreighter path. Is it possible then to give us real minifreighter than for non-miner characters?
this. giving the orca 90km3 + 30km/40km + 400km(ship storage) makes this an incredible hauler and clearly outclasses both industrials and transports even in some way outclassing a JF due to cost and the ability to transport rigged ships.
with the skill path being mining and command does this effect the balance between the hauling professionals. freighters being highly restrictive and jump freighters being insanley expensive. the mini freighter with the kind of storage this orca has is pretty much perfect for a midpoint hauller but you gave it to the miners :''(
im a command/hauller pilot and the orca seems more geared to me than a miner :/
**edit** forgot to ask again if a freighter or JF could take from the corp hanger whilst in space ?
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Jonak
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:29:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Fergus Runkle
Originally by: CCP Chronotis general replies to some questions and clarifications
Clarifications
2. The Orca can have 2 gang links active by default
I never mentioned this in the original blog but it was designed this way. In all honesty, you only ever need the mining laser range and duration links as the activation cost link is not really all that useful but if you really want a third link on you need a command processor.
Then the one I have on SISI must be a pre-production one as I can only activate 1 ganglink at a time. When I try to online a second I am told there is already something using the resources required. (yes I am using two different links)
True. I'll check again when I get home and can log into sisi.
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Cornchips
Black Serpent Technologies Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:32:00 -
[280]
I like everything about this ship except that it is too big to go in the Rorq ship bay. You intentionally made it small so that we could not put a BS into it, but not change the size so it could go in a Carrier/Rorq. The model size is WAAAAYYYY to small if everything is to stay as is, the model is smaller than a BS and you can put 2 BS's into a carrier, but not one Orca???? what gives CCP???
Change the unpacked size so ONE will fit into a Carrier/Rorq.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Do we have to start selling tinfoil hats in the EVE Store??
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darklegionca
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:35:00 -
[281]
Um so this will mean the death of all ore belts in empire since its basicly a freighter why not just retrofit the old freighters and will the riods now be the size of the ice chunks meaning they cant be killed or what ------------------------------------ [url=http://profile.mygamercard.net/darklegionca][/url] |
Alz Shado
Ever Flow Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.24 15:44:00 -
[282]
Thanks for the update Chronotis, but you didn't touch on the cargo bay issue.
Are we to assume that the Orca is the response to the overwhelming demand for a true mini-freighter, or is that ship still in the works? |
Arthur Pewty
Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:05:00 -
[283]
"15:08:30 Notify The Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization cannot be activated as it requires access to resources which 1 modules of the same purpose are already using up."
Given its Jake of all Trades nature I would suggest a skill set of Mining Foreman IV, Mining Barge IV and Transport Ships II.
I would like for it to fit into a Rorqual, either repackaged or in the Ship Array. I would also like it to have the ability to hold a Rigged Battleship in its Ship Array, so that it can help with Empire Logistics and be a great target for Gate Campers.
Please give it enough slots to do any one of its roles well (assuming T2 parts) but not be able to perform two at once.
The Build costs are good and the Contract Market can and will provide the BPCs needed for Medium sized corps to build this, just don't expect to see any BPCs of the ship itself.
Arthur
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Tallonn Dex
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:12:00 -
[284]
I have to admit, like many others, I am a bit underwhelmed with the stats for this ship, so far. It's a great attempt, but still feels like it falls short of being anything other than a mediocre ship.
First, it doesn't really bridge the gap between freighter and industrial. Depending on your set-up, it will only haul what 2-3 Itty V's will haul, and the ship bay is limited to BCs or less. I don't see that as being a 'mini freighter', so much as it being a 'sligthly larger' industrial. The comment from the blog is silly - of course you're still going to need haulers. ;) I don't see how this ship would replace the need for them.
The ship bay also seems too small. I read the CCP rep's response and it appears this was done intentionally to prevent rigged BS's from being hauled. If that's the case, then sadly, I don't see the ship bay size being enlarged all that much.
Next, I think a requirement for Barge V is silly. Essentially you have to have a Hulk pilot in this thing, and it seems counter-productive to require that. Does the math for a Mining Link specialist justify the loss of a Hulk pilot to run this ship? Regardless, I think Transport IV would make a lot more sense than Barge V, but that's just my opinion. If it's supposed to be a command ship/hauler hybrid, it would make more sense to require those types of skills - not mining skills.
I am personally ok with the drone bay size. I wouldnt use one of these ships solo, and with other ships around to take care of rats, I wouldn't be too worried about it's offensive capabilities. It would be nice if this thing could tank as easily as a Hulk, at least, so another mid-slot would be appreciated.
After Chronotis's explanation about the mining link operation, I am fine now with the number of high slots.
Really, I think this ship only falls short in capacity (both in its regular cargo hold and the ship bay) and in regards to its skill requirements to fly.
These are just my opinions, though. :)
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:13:00 -
[285]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
3. Why does it not compress ore like the rorqual?
This comes down to balancing of the cost effectiveness. The majority of reasoning behind wanting it to compress is for veldspar specifically and we have plans in motion (which you have read about in the past) which will ease this issue specifically.
Please elaborate. I don't remember reading anything about an incoming veldspar change by CCP. I read lots by players wanting high-yield veldspar and other lowend roids, but nothing from CCP... |
Unity Love
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:15:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Arthur Pewty "15:08:30 Notify The Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization cannot be activated as it requires access to resources which 1 modules of the same purpose are already using up."
Given its Jake of all Trades nature I would suggest a skill set of Mining Foreman IV, Mining Barge IV and Transport Ships II.
I think that not having a V skill in there would be a mistake, since that coupled with the circa 500m price tag rightfully makes it a ship which can only be piloted by dedicated corp industrialists.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:26:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Unity Love
Originally by: Arthur Pewty "15:08:30 Notify The Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization cannot be activated as it requires access to resources which 1 modules of the same purpose are already using up."
Given its Jake of all Trades nature I would suggest a skill set of Mining Foreman IV, Mining Barge IV and Transport Ships II.
I think that not having a V skill in there would be a mistake, since that coupled with the circa 500m price tag rightfully makes it a ship which can only be piloted by dedicated corp industrialists.
it is a bug and will successfully run 3 ganglinks in a future update (I ninja edited my original response to correct this from 2) |
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Dralor
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:29:00 -
[288]
well personaly i was realy looking forward to this ship. Im in a smaller sized corp and was realy looking forward to something that would free up my pilots from having to haul all the time. The combined cargo bays cant hold 1 belt worth of ore. Also unless your gonna run a 5 man crew or higher i cant see this ship being effective. If its stats were left as is but 2 ore compression lines were added it would def be a must have. But as it sits i think it would be better just to keep 1 pilot running in an indy 5 instead of losing 2 pilots and getting a little better ore income.
I do love the ship model but and a bit disspointed. The slots and stats are fine otherwise |
Mirah Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:32:00 -
[289]
This is probably a stupid question but, does the Cargo Capacity bonus affect only the cargo hold or will it affect the other bays as well (asking because it was specifically said that the cargo space will be divided amoung the 3 bays)
Mirah Dawn |
Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.10.24 16:44:00 -
[290]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
The addition of the ship maintenance bay which is not big enough to carry battleships (on purpose) but carry 2 hulks makes it role also swap a lot between general hauler and mining specialist and it suffers the same as the rorqual to an extent.
This makes sense in terms of the Orca, but it brings up the question of when (if ever) are we going to have a ship that DOES fill that role?
Nomads (yes, I know they are not exactly a common group, but maybe we need a bit more of a voice) of various types have been needing something to fill the role for a while now.
An example would be a non-hub based mission runner,.. if on does not use a 'pure kill mission' agent then one needs to carry a main missions ship (BS), salvager (DD), light courier (FF), heavy courier (indy), and maybe even a barge. The situation gets even worse if you use multiple BSes or, worst case scenario, work your was up from L1->L4 in which case you need even more ships. Moving them one by one can bea frustrating time sink.
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Tessen
Stellar Tide
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:02:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Tessen on 24/10/2008 17:03:09 Hi. Change and fixes are very good except this one :
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Fixes
1. The required skill for Industrial Command Ships to be changed from Mining Foreman to Mining Director 1.
This was honestly an oversight on my part. It should require the same minimum skill as the mining foreman ganglinks.
Rorqual have same leadership ability and dont need Leadership skills. This is the same for Command ships, Carriers, Motherships and Titans : they can use warfare links but it is not required for piloting the ship.
This feature allow pilots who dont have Leadership skill to pilot them aswell. Orca will be the only one ship who requier Advanced Command skill to fly it.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think Industrial Command ships Skill should not have Mining Foreman or mining Director requirement. Moreover, If someone want to fly it without Leadership module he'll have no choice and will have to learn this skill.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:09:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Tessen
This is the same for Command ships, Carriers, Motherships and Titans : they can use warfare links but it is not required for piloting the ship.
Pretty sure last time I checked command ships needed Warfare Link Specialist 4.
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Marconius
Caldari Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:10:00 -
[293]
I hope they increase the ship maint bay to 600km3. This would allow the movement of a rigged battleship or have 3 hulks in it.
If only there was a way to courier contract a rigged battleship and the person accepting it to be able to put it in the ship maint bay. Then there might be some business to be had by player courier mission runners.
If they did increase it to 600km3 ship maint bay they should increase the size of the Orca for sure.
I'm still not sure about it, but it is reguardless a much appreciated addition to the mining community.
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Xsyla
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:22:00 -
[294]
Note to everybody: You cant blame ccp if they would say "ok, lets forget the orca" , it will never hit TQ. Sorry, but most statement are such in away "personal wish", if implemented would turn eve upside down. Please dont hesitate to count it as a whine.
To Topic: Nice work ccp, please go ahead. If only the barge would have such a beautiful skin like this baby |
shady trader
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:25:00 -
[295]
I am have missed the comment about this but I think there is a flaw in the design (a side from the diffrent ships people want).
According to the devs it get a bonus to the bonus to tractor beam range so they reach 70Km.
According to the links posted showing the spec the mac targeting range is 60km. This means that the max tractor range will be only 60Km. Even with max gang skills boosting this by 10% to 66km, assuming my maths is not wrong.
Can we have the max targeting range altered please to base of say 65Km? |
Dr Stark
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:28:00 -
[296]
ok so the only thing i see that ccp has not replayed to is the skills need for the new book
i will say that i have my order in to buy the ship right away from people that are readdy to get the bpo so i love every thing about
just want to be able to fly the thing right when i get it beside that one skill that not out
thank you ccp |
Tarh Assiliof
ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:35:00 -
[297]
Originally by: shady trader According to the links posted showing the spec the mac targeting range is 60km. This means that the max tractor range will be only 60Km. Even with max gang skills boosting this by 10% to 66km, assuming my maths is not wrong.
You forget "Long Range Targeting". |
Kalderion Mar
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:41:00 -
[298]
Edited by: Kalderion Mar on 24/10/2008 17:43:36 No, a freighter cannot access the corp hanger outside of a POS...
Now, I have no complaints with the Orca, as My intended use is as designed. With one exception. With no way to empty the thing, how is it supposed to work? Yes, We could use several haulers.. but what have we then gained over using a command ship or a BC with a tractor on it? a little better bonus at a much greater cost. My Industry character can fill a can in less than 15 min. we usually mine with four or five hulks.. even with 4 hulks, thats at least three haulers to keep up if not in the same system as a station. Thats 4 cans (or more) filled every 15 minutes. meaning the Orca will then have to jump out of the system every 15 minutes. warp, dock, un-dock, warp, jump, warp again etc. Again, we are back to it being easier to just use a command ship and haulers..
Chronotis stated; CCP is considering; 2. Increasing capacity of the corporate hangar bay to 40,000m3 This is a reasonable increase in capacity without making the ship overly powerful.
It also doesnt help, another 10000m3 wont even hold a jetcan.. I guess, I need to understand what your intended Purpose of this ship is.
It it your intention that we still need to run as many haulers as we have hulks if one jump or more away from a station? If it is, then what is the advantage of the Orca? I think it is great, EXACTLY as is...(other than the obvious) I understand why others want different things on it, and also understand others would like to use it in different roles, which is awesome!!!! My only point / problem is that as it is, its intended purpose (as I currently understand it) is to bring people together in highsec mining ops... If People DO come together to use it in a highsec OP.. it will be filled in less than 15 minutes.. No freighter access, no compression... Wouldnt it have been a lot easier to just give the mining links a greater bonus and save all the time developing the Orca? Because what it comes down to, is that it will be nothing more than an oversized, overpriced command ship that has less of a tank, and less offence than the bonus giver / command ship we are currently using. My ONLY, request for change, would be,
1 At least allow this thing to sit in a belt for 30 minutes before it has to warp out and lose bonus's 2 OR; Allow Freighter Access. 3 would have been to enable compression... but; as Stated By Chronotis; 3. Why does it not compress ore like the rorqual?
This comes down to balancing of the cost effectiveness. The majority of reasoning behind wanting it to compress is for veldspar specifically and we have plans in motion (which you have read about in the past) which will ease this issue specifically.
Which leaves options one and two, I would prefer to see option two. I have no problems with people using it to salvage, or any other intersting thing that they can come up with, and I do hope CCP makes it a versatile ship so that it CAN be used in a myriad of ways... However, First, I would at least like to see it become a bit more usefull than what we already have, meaning a command ship with a tractor beam we have to run three or four haulers from. (Again, I am speaking in terms of actually using it as a command ship in High Security space for mining operations of three hulks or more.)
edit; spelling
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Fulber
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:42:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Tessen Edited by: Tessen on 24/10/2008 17:03:09 Hi. Change and fixes are very good except this one :
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Fixes
1. The required skill for Industrial Command Ships to be changed from Mining Foreman to Mining Director 1.
This was honestly an oversight on my part. It should require the same minimum skill as the mining foreman ganglinks.
Rorqual have same leadership ability and dont need Leadership skills. This is the same for Command ships, Carriers, Motherships and Titans : they can use warfare links but it is not required for piloting the ship.
This feature allow pilots who dont have Leadership skill to pilot them aswell. Orca will be the only one ship who requier Advanced Command skill to fly it.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think Industrial Command ships Skill should not have Mining Foreman or mining Director requirement. Moreover, If someone want to fly it without Leadership module he'll have no choice and will have to learn this skill.
That's actually a damn fine point. Well spotted. |
Tessen
Stellar Tide
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Posted - 2008.10.24 17:49:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Mioelnir
Originally by: Tessen
This is the same for Command ships, Carriers, Motherships and Titans : they can use warfare links but it is not required for piloting the ship.
Pretty sure last time I checked command ships needed Warfare Link Specialist 4.
Was thinking about Skirmish Warfare, Mining Foreman, and other xxx Warfare skills.
I know CS are T2 and Orca is T1 but I think Orca should change Mining Director 1 for Warfare Link Specialist 4 as for Command ships. After all, Orca is the Miner's Command ship.
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