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Anslo
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:36:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Anslo on 06/11/2008 15:42:00 I believe I and my fellow pilots have put up with this long enough. Before I continue I will say I am not begging nor am I asking for handouts, but this must be brought to light.
I have been monitoring and noticing a highly steady increase in GTC prices over the last few months. Before the 30 and 90 day GTCs were pulled off the market, general price levels of these GTCs remained constant. 120mil for 30, 250mil for 60 and i believe 500mil for 90, or around this general area.
As of now, 60 day GTC prices have been raised from 450mil 2 months ago, to 500mil last month, and now sellers are asking for 600mil. The isk price of these GTC's are not proportionate to the normal price CCP has set out. So I must ask, just what the hell are you bastards thinking? I do not refer to CCP, I do not refer to those buying the GTCs, I refer to to the sellers gouging their prices needlessly. I have yet to see a viable reason that this little group has to be raising their prices in such an audacious way. Many players cannot afford to use real cash so they rely on isk to do this. Now, players only play to pay for their damn cards, they cannot even afford new ships or equipment.
If this is left unchecked, the players base for this game could potentially and drastically drop, which inevitably will affect market prices in game, which will inevitably lead to a crash where it will cost 100,000 to buy 100 pieces of Uranium M.
Don't let this game go the way the real world did when oil companies needlesly raised their prices for gasoline. We all saw where that lead to, and was nearly disasterous. This GTC price gouging could also lead to disasterous ingame and company effects.
Stop the Price Gouging.
Stop greedy Merchants. *Note* my apologies for the text wall
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:40:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Bish Ounen on 06/11/2008 15:46:42 Dude...
WALLOFTEXT!!! ARRRGH!!!
Line breaks between paragraphs are your friend. Hit the "edit" link and fix that please.
EDIT: Thanks man. MUCH more readable.
Also, I will have to disagree with your line of reasoning. The reason that prices are so high is due to a dearth of GTC sellers in the market. Once more GTC sellers enter the market, prices will drop. It's basic supply-side economics at play.
Heck, the GTC market is SO sensitive that I'll bet you as little as 5 guys entering the market to sell GTCs could drop the price by 25% without even trying, and by HALF if they actually tried to. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Bimjo
Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:42:00 -
[3]
who the hell are you to tell GTC sellers what their price should be ? If you don't like it then go and pay real cash for a change,instead of the free isk you have made in the game
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Steintz
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:42:00 -
[4]
Suply and demand ?
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Anslo
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Anslo on 06/11/2008 15:44:16
Originally by: Bimjo who the hell are you to tell GTC sellers what their price should be ? If you don't like it then go and pay real cash for a change,instead of the free isk you have made in the game
I can still afford to pay for isk, as I said I am not begging. But I have been obtaining recent messages and conversation about this problem. I know the beginning group that has already had to leave EVE due to these prices. They simply cannot afford real money And who the hell are you to defend them? One of them perhaps?
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:46:00 -
[6]
Edited by: bitters much on 06/11/2008 15:46:39 I¦m the one gauging the GTC prices and drinking your tears while my wallet grows fast.
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Bimjo
Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Bimjo on 06/11/2008 15:46:45
Originally by: Steintz Suply and demand ?
yes correct.
remember when vagabonds were selling for 200 mil ISK ? with a build cost of 50 million(ish) ? now it's all ok for us to have paid 200 mil for a HAC(probably sort of thing OP has made his ISKies on) but when the shoe is on the other foot the whiners invade the forums. I hope GTC prices go even higher
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:48:00 -
[8]
If you're a seller, you will get the most the market and your patience allows.
The only way to "stop" this "pricegouging" is either to have EVERYBODY STOP BUYING at those prices (i.e. some people would either have to quit or start paying cash) or SOME START SELLING much cheaper (then I'd have to ask who would be stupid enough to sell for less than what he could get).
Translation : nothing to see here, move along.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Plave Okice
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:48:00 -
[9]
Be grateful you even have the option to play the game paying with ISK
I have no sympathy for anyone who doesn't pay to play the game
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Bimjo
Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:51:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Bimjo on 06/11/2008 15:54:10
Originally by: Anslo Edited by: Anslo on 06/11/2008 15:44:16 And who the hell are you to defend them? One of them perhaps?
yes I am,I sell GTC's when I need iskies,unlike the unemployed who play 23/7/365 and make their billions,I work in RL,buy ISKies,through GTC sales, and play a precious few hours a week(as I have a life outside of EVE)
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Don J
Doom Guard
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:51:00 -
[11]
It's not really gouging unless you're implying some sort of cartel exists. If GTC's get snapped up at 550mil then someone is going to try 560mil & as soon as the next seller sees 560mil GTC's selling he'll try his luck with 570mil.
What you are seeing now is variables moving in the course of reaching equilibrium (which is never achieved).
The only way to force the prices the other way is to vote with your wallet. But as it stands it would seem that demand is still outstripping supply. Hence the prices you see. If people are still happily purchasing at the prices shown, no amount of complaining is going to bring down the price.
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Pilot Abilene
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:54:00 -
[12]
Honestly, you were getting them too cheap in the first place. If anything I think people are starting to realize what their money is worth considering the ridiculous amounts of ISK people make in game with ease.
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sg3s
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:58:00 -
[13]
You made several mistakes, which makes me unsure of whether this is a legitimate whine or a troll... anyway.
1. 60d timecards did not exist before the change 2. 30d timecard median price was more arround 170m 3. 90d timecard median price was more arround 400m-450m 4. Change is just that, change, which means things, ironically enough, change... The price is also subject to change when things get... well... changed...
Price gauging may occur since there really isn't any rule to prevent this... But no one is restraining anyone from jumping in and start selling cheaper timecards here... So why do you think prices are being kept high? It's because the current prices are what people are willing to pay for the current supplies... Supply and demand 101.
Advocating for banning whine topics like these.
Originally by: Tarminic Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:00:00 -
[14]
Get a job and pay with subscription? -1 GTC buyer = slightly better price for everyone else. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Raimo
Gallente Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Don J It's not really gouging unless you're implying some sort of cartel exists.
Well that cartel exists, or existed a couple of weeks back when they tried to get me to join their channel and comply to sell at their price...
Mind you, I was selling in the first place because of the insanely good EUR/ISK conversion, couldn't resist... ;)
No proof from me however. I have that dude in my block list but it is just too long for me to be able to go through it and remember who it was.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:03:00 -
[16]
So what do you SUPPOSE a "fair" price should be for a 60-day GTC ?
On one hand, the 60 day-card costs 35$, and that's a given. In-game, most incomes range from the miserable to over 20 mil/hour for somebody with decent experience but not too special. In RL, incomes range from as little as 20 cents to 20$/hour for somebody with decent experience but not too special either.
At the bottom, you could argue a "fair" price would be 40 mil ISK for a 60-day GTC (but the again everybody would be laughing at you), but you could also argue a "fair" price would be 3.5 bil ISK. A more realistic approach would be around 1$/hour and 15 mil ISK/hour, for which you get, oh, what a surprise, 525 mil ISK per GTC.
So I fail to see that "price gouging" you are talking about.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Ghost Goat
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ghost Goat on 06/11/2008 16:05:42 blame the buyers for this , as long as people keep paying these ridiculous amounts, the prices will keep going up .
if people had balls they would have stop paying these prices and let some of there alt accounts expire .
but apparently eve equals ******(addictive drug of the opiate family) and some people will pay anything for game time .
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ghost Goat ridiculous amounts
Who says they're ridiculous ? You ? On what grounds ? Anything between 40 mil and 4 bil is fairly normal. _
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Evlyna
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Anslo
Don't let this game go the way the real world did when oil companies needlesly raised their prices for gasoline. We all saw where that lead to, and was nearly disasterous.
You seriously have no clue what you are talking about.
The GTC market is sane and based on supply and demand while the real life market is screwed for being rigged, speculative and based on currencies having nothing to back them up. (Among a zillion other reasons).
ktksbye!
P.S.: I'll be nice, buy them at primetime. Now around downtime.
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Faife
Noctiscion
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:09:00 -
[20]
i'm holding out for a billion per gtc --
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
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sg3s
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:13:00 -
[21]
Oh btw, OP if you quit, can I have your stuff?
Originally by: Tarminic Because even when EVE sucks, it sucks less than every other MMO out there.
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Ghost Goat
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ghost Goat ridiculous amounts
Who says they're ridiculous ? You ? On what grounds ? Anything between 40 mil and 4 bil is fairly normal.
i really dont want to get into this circle jerk again . so lets leave it at that .
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Anneka Tong
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:28:00 -
[23]
isk-farming operations can afford to pay more than normal players for the GTCs.
Many buyers of GTCs appear to be from isk-farming operations.
If you attempt to only sell to normal players, it takes forever to make a sale.
So, the answer to the high prices is to attack farming operations. The more they are disrupted, the lower the prices they can pay are, so the prices that normal players have to pay is reduced.
So go get 'em, tiger.
I like genetic engineering Past projects: The Radioactive Sheep Current project: CyberCow |
Deira Lenia
The Chaotic Order Void.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:28:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Deira Lenia on 06/11/2008 16:29:29 Edited by: Deira Lenia on 06/11/2008 16:28:33 You want to know why your paying half a billion for a GTC?
Simple. The overall USD value corrected itself to other world currency's. For large parts of the world it became ineffective again to buy/sell GTC's for cheap isk because the dollar price returned itself.
The euro to USD value restored itself by 60 USD cents in the past 3 weeks. One of the reasons why many european players stopped selling GTC's.
The supply went down MASSIVLY, and the demand stayed the same.
If you want cheaper GTC's, tell banks in the US to go bankrupt so your USD is worth crapall again. Then GTC's will flood the market from European players again and you can have your cheap GTC.
Prioritys man, Prioritys, do you want a house to live in or cheap GTC's? -- Real men corpse tank Void Forums The Chaotic Order Forums |
Ana Vyr
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:38:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ana Vyr on 06/11/2008 16:39:31 Edited by: Ana Vyr on 06/11/2008 16:38:48 Some folks must be paying that price. I guess it's worth it to them.
What I can't figure out is that you work all day (presumably) for money...and then you work during your playtime to pay for the game you want to play to relax from real-life work. Why not just pay for a sub with real money, so you can spend your liesure time actually playing the game for fun?
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spud maur
Gallente IBF2
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:41:00 -
[26]
ive sold GTC's in the past not so many 60day codes and i taught 450 was a high price but i still took the isk :), but what i would like to see is CCP set a price for these codes to be sold at with this new system they are introducing, one of my corp mates sold a few 60day codes this week for 600mill each and that is just a rip off so im all For CCP caping the price that can be charges for these
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:53:00 -
[27]
Buy 1000 GTCs, sell them for 300mil each, problem solved. "The Cartel" will either drop out of business or adjust their prices.
Of course, if they're as rich as some may belief, they might just buy out your stock and resell it for the 500-600mil they do now.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:54:00 -
[28]
Credit crunch?
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Dikanal
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Anslo The isk price of these GTC's are not proportionate to the normal price CCP has set out.
What nominal price? as far as I am aware CCP have never issued any guidelines about the ISK value a GTC represents, I may be wrong and if you can supply an official source please illuminate me.
PS
Stop whining and go farm some ISK for us greedy merchants.
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Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:06:00 -
[30]
Until the day where 1 GTC = The amount of isk you can gather in a 2 month period, you really need to crawl back under your rock and just learn to take it. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:22:00 -
[31]
The answer is more security buffs. Only when every ISK-farmer everywhere is safe, will we see GTCs at their true value.
PS: hahahahahaha! AAAaaaahahhahah!
PPS: BwaAAAAAAAAhahahaha! OMG! OMG! ehehe. heh. hehahaha. hooo...
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Hegbard
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:42:00 -
[32]
Originally by: spud maur i would like to see is CCP set a price for these codes to be sold at with this new system they are introducing
I'm always surprised in those threads how casually people ask for a complete destruction of the game by introducing communism.
I guess I'm just old fashioned.
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Hegbard
Originally by: spud maur i would like to see is CCP set a price for these codes to be sold at with this new system they are introducing
I'm always surprised in those threads how casually people ask for a complete destruction of the game by introducing communism.
I guess I'm just old fashioned.
Is that a kipper tie you're wearing?
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:56:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Anslo Edited by: Anslo on 06/11/2008 15:42:00 I believe I and my fellow pilots have put up with this long enough. Before I continue I will say I am not begging nor am I asking for handouts, but this must be brought to light.
I have been monitoring and noticing a highly steady increase in GTC prices over the last few months. Before the 30 and 90 day GTCs were pulled off the market, general price levels of these GTCs remained constant. 120mil for 30, 250mil for 60 and i believe 500mil for 90, or around this general area.
As of now, 60 day GTC prices have been raised from 450mil 2 months ago, to 500mil last month, and now sellers are asking for 600mil. The isk price of these GTC's are not proportionate to the normal price CCP has set out. So I must ask, just what the hell are you bastards thinking? I do not refer to CCP, I do not refer to those buying the GTCs, I refer to to the sellers gouging their prices needlessly. I have yet to see a viable reason that this little group has to be raising their prices in such an audacious way. Many players cannot afford to use real cash so they rely on isk to do this. Now, players only play to pay for their damn cards, they cannot even afford new ships or equipment.
If this is left unchecked, the players base for this game could potentially and drastically drop, which inevitably will affect market prices in game, which will inevitably lead to a crash where it will cost 100,000 to buy 100 pieces of Uranium M.
Don't let this game go the way the real world did when oil companies needlesly raised their prices for gasoline. We all saw where that lead to, and was nearly disasterous. This GTC price gouging could also lead to disasterous ingame and company effects.
Stop the Price Gouging.
Stop greedy Merchants. *Note* my apologies for the text wall
Hum what is a GTC seller thinking? Well two things:
1) I'm going to sell this GTC at whatever the going rate on the board seems to be and I'm only going to drop the price if I can't sell it.
and
2) While I might have sold a 30 day time card in the past for around 150m, to me their is a big difference between dropping $15m and $35 on a time code. If 60 days where selling at 400m right now I'd take that $35 and go buy a book from White Wolf.
And really that's it for me, I'm sure some of the European guys are also considering if they can get a "discount" by buying dollar denominated GTCs.
TBH selling GTCs right now is the quickest and easiest I've ever seen it. I sold a 60 day via forums in under 5 minutes. I remember when it use to take two to four hours of forum bumps and spamming the APPROPRIATE online chat channel to sell GTCs. Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:58:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hegbard
Originally by: spud maur i would like to see is CCP set a price for these codes to be sold at with this new system they are introducing
I'm always surprised in those threads how casually people ask for a complete destruction of the game by introducing communism.
I guess I'm just old fashioned.
Heh. We Americans just did it with our latest election, no reason why EvE can't have it too!
Seriously, the lack of proper economics education in our world is sad. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Alzule Langley
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jas Dor
TBH selling GTCs right now is the quickest and easiest I've ever seen it. I sold a 60 day via forums in under 5 minutes. I remember when it use to take two to four hours of forum bumps and spamming the APPROPRIATE online chat channel to sell GTCs.
No kidding, I sold one for the going rate just yesterday (600mil), and I was shocked at how fast it sold... Looking back, I should have asked for another 50mil...
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Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:08:00 -
[37]
Supply and Demand? Inflation? Debasing of currency?
ZOMG ECONOMICS IN AN PLAYER DRIVEN ECONOMY!!!
Bottom line, if you dont want to pay it, then dont. Some one else will. It is the buyer who sets the price, as a GTC is only worth what you will pay for it.
Im so sorry that your isk making operations cannot afford you all the GTC's you need to keep all your accounts open, Sell some.
Also i find your awesome analysis of the Current state of the global economy. Yes it was surely the oil companies, that ****ed the economy; Not lending billions up billions to people who could never pay them back. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:13:00 -
[38]
How can CCP set the prices for GTC if the GTC are bought with real money from real players and sold for FAKE game currecy?
Yes I sell GTC to raise isk and yesterday I sold 4 60 codes for 550 in secs, SECS, that tells me that there is no sellers or that the sellers are out numbered by the buyers.
So get the buyers to start paying for the game with REAL money or get more sellers in by raising the prices higher and higher til there are equal number of sellers and buyers.
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Sebea
Bottomfeeders Science and Research
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:18:00 -
[39]
You know, its funny to see this argument take place.
I don't care one way or another, I can afford the prices of GTC's as they are, or pay with a credit card (I try to keep my accounts paid up for 6 months)
The funny thing will be when the massive population drop happens from players no longer paying with GTC's, who can't be bothered to pay for EVE's multiple problems.
Yea yea, I know, "Great, I'll take their stuff" and "More room for us", but you have to wonder, at what point does CCP say "OK, enough is enough, pull the plug, our population is down too low".
See you can champion the "Man up" clause all you want, but when the population drops, and CCP decides they need to close shop from lack of profits from EVE, the same guys crying for everyone to suck it up, will be weeping heavily here on the forums, and I'm betting they blame the very people they are defending now.
On the flip side, the GTC sellers are aloud to sell at whatever price they want. There is no federal regulation, by CCP to stop gouging. Its a free open market. How do you compete with it? Simple, don't buy the GTC to show your lack of support for the current pricing bracket. If the cards aren't selling, they sellers will lower their prices to a point where they do sell.
Any new sellers are going to come in selling their cards at the current market rates, as there is a much higher demand than there is supply, so it would take a flood to get it right again.
I'd also like to note that isk farmers, are paying the price for those cards no matter WHAT they get set at, so true market competition is not able to happen, for even if ALL the players went on a strike refusing to buy GTCs for the inflated prices, the ISK sellers would still be out spending their billions buying up GTC's, undermining the entire concept of the free market.
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Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Alzule Langley
No kidding, I sold one for the going rate just yesterday (600mil), and I was shocked at how fast it sold... Looking back, I should have asked for another 50mil...
I think we're going to see GTCs settle into a range around 800m once CCP introduces ingame selling of pilots licenses. 400m is doable in a week and really I suspect that most folks don't start saving for a GTC until about a week before their current game time is about to expire. (I should add that I've never made anything close to 400m in a week ratting in 0.0 but then again I'm only getting about an hour ratting to every four hours of PvP related activity).
Once one gtc = a carrier, I think we'll see more folks enter the market stabilizing the price.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
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Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:29:00 -
[41]
If the GTC price reached 750 mill I just might buy a gtc to sell at that price isk wise I can validate depriving myself of a bottle of Jack Daniels.
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:36:00 -
[42]
It is supply and demand, unfortunately. Think about it:
CCP disables ghost training => characters that were previously training long skills without a subscription now need a subscription => suddenly quite a few more people NEED gtc's to keep their skills going => more demand for GTCs.
On the other side of the equation, same supply for GTCs. Believe it or not, not everyone wants to sink RL cash into a game to get worthless ISK for it, thus not many are paying cash to sell GTCs for ISK.
All in all, the result is that price of GTCs (and character sales) has increased. And will continue to increase.
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Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 18:46:00 -
[43]
I think people are making the whole thing more complicated than it really is. Though theory crafting is fun.
My opinion just lies with percieved cost. Basically more people were willing to throw $12? away for a 30 day GTC. Now that the prices are $35 for a 60 day people will throw their money away less vigorously and covet the return more.
granted it lacks the awesome graphs with bell curves and all that but thats mah theory and I'm sticking with it. Also I'm not even a part of the GTC market so I really don't care.... need to do less forum whoring going outside brb.
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Korbann
Domini Umbrus R.U.R.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:12:00 -
[44]
GTC market working as intended. Supply and demand.
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:13:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Anslo I can still afford to pay for isk, as I said I am not begging. But I have been obtaining recent messages and conversation about this problem. I know the beginning group that has already had to leave EVE due to these prices. They simply cannot afford real money And who the hell are you to defend them? One of them perhaps?
AND THERE YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER.
The value of a dollar has declined significantly with the current economic recession and global financial situations (such as, in the US, giving $850b to bail out lenders, $300b for Lehmen before that, $25b for automakers before that and another $300b for tax rebates, $300b for individual mortgage assistance and $25 for ANOTHER automotive bailout all coming). A couple trillion dollars pulled out of thin air will tend to make things more difficult in an already stifling economy.
People selling you their GTCs are not all wealthy. They are paying $35 hard-earned dollars for every card in a time when money is tight and people are fearing for their general financial well-being and even their jobs.
You point out that people have to quit eve because they can't afford subscriptions. Well, then the alternative to that is that you work hard to afford GTCs. Do you think that GTC sellers live in some fancy alternate universe where THEIR money is somehow worth far less at $35/pop than YOUR money is at $15 or $30 a pop that you say they're having a problem with (and as a result can't afford subscriptions).
This complaint is like going to a bakery and being outraged that the baker has raised his prices, even though his own costs have risen. And then you justify it by telling him "but money is tight! we can't afford it! You're gouging us!". Without any thought or concern for the fact that the baker himself has higher costs and can barely afford HIS expenses.
Not to mention, just because SOME people ask a higher value doesn't mean that's the going rate. SOME people may be buying at 600m but the AVERAGE is closer to 530m (and yes, I am basing this on stats compiled into a spreadsheet over the last 7 days across the GTC forum).
So the simple answer is - stop whining about price gouging when EVERYONE is in the line of the same economic fire. I'm not going to discount you GTCs because I feel like giving you a freebie. I'm not your dad. I'm a hard working person who values his money and wants to get as much as he can for it. If I could get a billion per GTC, I'd want that too. But I can't. Because people won't pay for it. So I sell them at the price people WILL pay for. It's this funny little thing called supply and demand. Called market price. Called capitalism.
If you don't like it, then scrounge up the $10.95 or $14.95/mo and PAY for your account. And if you can't afford that, then work harder to earn more isk so you can play the game for no real cash. Or don't play the game at all if that's too much of a time sink to accomplish. But don't come in here acting like you are entitled to prices that meet your particular situation while other people are gladly picking up all the available GTCs out there and paying the going rate. If you can't afford something - don't buy it. If enough people can't afford it, the price will either drop or the product will simply go away (people will decide that it isn't worth selling for the price you want to pay and simply stop participating in the trade).
And, most of all, STOP WITH THE GOD DAMNED DAILY THREADS WHINING ABOUT THIS SAME DAMN THING, PEOPLE.
At the very least, wait until the the GTC trade is merged into the in-game market. Until then, the discussion is moot because the out of game market has a limited life span remaining.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:19:00 -
[46]
OP needs to take a damn basic economics course.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Aalana
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:28:00 -
[47]
Can I have your stuff when you "inevitably" leave?
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Mogren
CCCP INC
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Posted - 2008.11.06 19:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Qordel
Originally by: Anslo I can still afford to pay for isk, as I said I am not begging. But I have been obtaining recent messages and conversation about this problem. I know the beginning group that has already had to leave EVE due to these prices. They simply cannot afford real money And who the hell are you to defend them? One of them perhaps?
AND THERE YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER.
The value of a dollar has declined significantly with the current economic recession and global financial situations (such as, in the US, giving $850b to bail out lenders, $300b for Lehmen before that, $25b for automakers before that and another $300b for tax rebates, $300b for individual mortgage assistance and $25 for ANOTHER automotive bailout all coming). A couple trillion dollars pulled out of thin air will tend to make things more difficult in an already stifling economy.
People selling you their GTCs are not all wealthy. They are paying $35 hard-earned dollars for every card in a time when money is tight and people are fearing for their general financial well-being and even their jobs.
You point out that people have to quit eve because they can't afford subscriptions. Well, then the alternative to that is that you work hard to afford GTCs. Do you think that GTC sellers live in some fancy alternate universe where THEIR money is somehow worth far less at $35/pop than YOUR money is at $15 or $30 a pop that you say they're having a problem with (and as a result can't afford subscriptions).
This complaint is like going to a bakery and being outraged that the baker has raised his prices, even though his own costs have risen. And then you justify it by telling him "but money is tight! we can't afford it! You're gouging us!". Without any thought or concern for the fact that the baker himself has higher costs and can barely afford HIS expenses.
Not to mention, just because SOME people ask a higher value doesn't mean that's the going rate. SOME people may be buying at 600m but the AVERAGE is closer to 530m (and yes, I am basing this on stats compiled into a spreadsheet over the last 7 days across the GTC forum).
So the simple answer is - stop whining about price gouging when EVERYONE is in the line of the same economic fire. I'm not going to discount you GTCs because I feel like giving you a freebie. I'm not your dad. I'm a hard working person who values his money and wants to get as much as he can for it. If I could get a billion per GTC, I'd want that too. But I can't. Because people won't pay for it. So I sell them at the price people WILL pay for. It's this funny little thing called supply and demand. Called market price. Called capitalism.
If you don't like it, then scrounge up the $10.95 or $14.95/mo and PAY for your account. And if you can't afford that, then work harder to earn more isk so you can play the game for no real cash. Or don't play the game at all if that's too much of a time sink to accomplish. But don't come in here acting like you are entitled to prices that meet your particular situation while other people are gladly picking up all the available GTCs out there and paying the going rate. If you can't afford something - don't buy it. If enough people can't afford it, the price will either drop or the product will simply go away (people will decide that it isn't worth selling for the price you want to pay and simply stop participating in the trade).
And, most of all, STOP WITH THE GOD DAMNED DAILY THREADS WHINING ABOUT THIS SAME DAMN THING, PEOPLE.
At the very least, wait until the the GTC trade is merged into the in-game market. Until then, the discussion is moot because the out of game market has a limited life span remaining.
Well said. ++internets for you.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:03:00 -
[49]
World in economic downturn means....
Less people selling GTC for money. More people want GTC for ISK.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell what the result is in a supply/demand driven market....
The OP, and other malcontent's should also know that it is within their power to change it if they really want to. It's a simple matter of buying some hundred GTC's every month and selling them for ISK. Problem solved!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Ghost Goat
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sebea
The funny thing will be when the massive population drop happens from players no longer paying with GTC's, who can't be bothered to pay for EVE's multiple problems.
i suspect this all ready started to happen. only few weeks ago one of the devs said that they are monitoring the GTC's market and they don't see anything wrong with it , and few weeks later ,out of the blue, they announce the coming changes in the GTC's mechanics .
i might be wrong off course, but imo something major happened beyond the scenes that made CCP actually move there arses and make something about it .
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luminous russula
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:16:00 -
[51]
Edited by: luminous russula on 06/11/2008 20:15:57 this game is time consuming. if you don`t have the time to earn 15 euros a month, how can you have the time to play the game? meaning that there is nothing wrong if someone cant afford 15 euros a month, but there is something wrong if he cant afford it but does nothing about it as he keeps playing a game.
unless you are in prison or some other situation where you absolutely cannot earn the 15 a month...
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Qordel ..A pile of really smart stuff that basically jibes with what I said way back in the 1st reply of this thread...
Congratulations Qordel.
Not only are you smart, You're a Conservative (American style). Welcome to the fold my brother, the Rush Limbaugh center for Excellence will be hosting a series of Ronald Reagan films this afternoon in the W.F. Buckley memorial theater, please feel free to drop by and have some popcorn.
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Popsikle
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:32:00 -
[53]
ITs simple really.
Money IRL is getting tighter for most of the worlds population. People are saving more and spending less and what they are spending they are less likely to settle for what they get in return.
Last year people used to be ok with getting 150mil for 15$ now the 15$ is worth more to them because money is tighter so they want more in return?
Duh? ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime. |
Xiaodown
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:41:00 -
[54]
Let's run the math:
At your stated prices, given: 90d GTC used to be 500m isk 60d GTC are now at 600m isk
Purely from the *seller's* point of view:
Old: 12.5m isk / $1 USD (or $0.08/1m isk) New: 17.5m isk / $1 USD (or $0.058/1m isk)
That's a significant jump in the real-world worth of "selling a GTC". But, when you think that, from the time I started playing eve (feb 06) to now, the price of gas has gone from $1.89/gal up to $4.39/gal (and is now coming back down), in this crazy recession/inflation economy, that's a reasonable increase in the value of a good.
All I'm saying is that people who play eve are not spending their hard earned money as much on buying GTCs to sell for in game currency, and instead spending it on food/gas/rent.
Simple, really. There are fewer who have the money to afford GTC's and more who would like to play eve for free. Therefore the value of the GTC goes up.
~X
--
Sig under construction.
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Claudia Voltaire
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:42:00 -
[55]
Pay to play premium mmorpg, there are plenty of free alternatives, you should live by your means and consider alternatives if you're unwilling to follow the subscription model you agreed to when you signed up to play here.
Thats the bottom line.
Ofcourse yourself and many others will have started with eve because of the fact you've learned that there was a way to pay with in game currency. Consider though, the more and more people that come this way on that premise, the worse it gets, it's the same as any 'free' service, enventualy it gets swamped by demand.
At the end of the day, you're at the bottom of the food chain leetching in a free for all what you can realy, why prices will go up and up. The whole system on all sides of it is about greed, buyers, sellers, ccp.
Ohh and to quote the ex community manager... ccp have never placed a $ value on the price of isk.
Be interesting to see if they change on that one in the coming months, they seem to be desperate to increase their revenues given recent blogs and changes.
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:44:00 -
[56]
Blame the buyers. People sell at the price they can get away with paying. If people stopped paying 600m then sellers would lower their prices. Free market ftw! --------------------------
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield |
Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:44:00 -
[57]
if your cant afford to pay for regular subscription costs then it's over for you personally i think that gtc's for ingame cash was BS anyways and only meant to curb RMT . adapt or unsubcribe .
i dunno what people think is going on here but there aint hundreds of guys out there amassing isk endlessly thru GTC at some point they get what they need and stop . it's not like they need billions upon billions for personal use .
if you cant afford subscriptions at all you shouldn't be here in the first place , and no i dont want your stuff .
*
* |
Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.06 20:53:00 -
[58]
It should be said that the dollar has strenghtened itself against most currencies(the yen being an exception) and that means a price hike for those of us not living in the states on top of the price increase for the cards themselves.
This also leads to fewer GTCs entering the market.
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Gut Punch
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.06 21:00:00 -
[59]
@OP: Dude learn how the free market works. The system is working as intended. If you think GTCs are overpriced, don't use them. Get off your lazy butt and go to your local bank to open a DEBIT card. FFS you can probably get them to send you one without leaving the keyboard. Do not bring your socialist price fixing into the market.
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.06 21:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Congratulations Qordel.
Not only are you smart, You're a Conservative (American style). Welcome to the fold my brother, the Rush Limbaugh center for Excellence will be hosting a series of Ronald Reagan films this afternoon in the W.F. Buckley memorial theater, please feel free to drop by and have some popcorn.
Libertarian, actually. With free-market views on the GTC market.
This is why I am enthusiastic about the in-game market regarding GTCs in the near future. More information; less regulation.
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.06 21:26:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Tellenta My opinion just lies with percieved cost. Basically more people were willing to throw $12? away for a 30 day GTC. Now that the prices are $35 for a 60 day people will throw their money away less vigorously and covet the return more.
Were GTCs really $12 USD for 30 days? If so, you have your answer RIGHT THERE. A pair of 30 day cards would have been $24 but 1x60 day card is $35. That is a 50% increase in price-per-month.
So when people complain and say "30 day cards used to be 200m!".. well.. they also used to be much less expensive in real money.
If a $12 USD 30 day card used to be 200m ISK, then increase that by 50% to cover the 50% increase in the real cost of the card. That's now 300m ISK. Now double that to be 60 days and you have 600m ISK -- MORE than the current going average rate.
So if they really used to be about $12 USD / 200m ISK for a 30 day card, then one can do the math themselves and see that they are at best getting a VERY GOOD DEAL (in buyer ISK per seller USD spent) or AT WORST breaking even.
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Taima Khan
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Posted - 2008.11.06 21:30:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Anslo I have been monitoring and noticing a highly steady increase in GTC prices over the last few months. Before the 30 and 90 day GTCs were pulled off the market, general price levels of these GTCs remained constant. 120mil for 30, 250mil for 60 and i believe 500mil for 90, or around this general area.
You fail at monitoring. If you did monitor the prices you would know that 30d GTCs could cost anything between 110m and 180m, for example. But more telling of your failure is that you quote a price for 60d GTCs before the 90 and 30d GTCs were removed. That's BS as the 60d GTCs did not exist.
Originally by: Anslo The isk price of these GTC's are not proportionate to the normal price CCP has set out.
CCP has not set out ANY price for in ISK for GTCs.
Originally by: Anslo So I must ask, just what the hell are you bastards thinking? I do not refer to CCP, I do not refer to those buying the GTCs, I refer to to the sellers gouging their prices needlessly. I have yet to see a viable reason that this little group has to be raising their prices in such an audacious way.
Sellers will set the highest price that they manage to obtain. There's nothing wrong with that. They are not bastards.
Originally by: Anslo Many players cannot afford to use real cash so they rely on isk to do this. Now, players only play to pay for their damn cards, they cannot even afford new ships or equipment.
If you cannot afford to play, do not play. The only acceptable move from CCP, if they think that the ISK price of GTCs is too hight, is to remove GTCs altogether. Note that the fact people cannot afford it and leave is NOT a reason for the ISK price of GTCs to be considered too hight. The only reason to consider it too hight is if, in some way, it destroys the ingame economy (think tritanium prices).
Originally by: Anslo If this is left unchecked, the players base for this game could potentially and drastically drop, which inevitably will affect market prices in game, which will inevitably lead to a crash where it will cost 100,000 to buy 100 pieces of Uranium M.
People quitting would not crash the market. Anyway the "normal" market would be the one we'd have if there were no GTCs at all.
As for the price of GTCs, it's a free market. Buyers and sellers. Some people kept crying because sellers were allegedly rising the price with "fake" forum posts. And because 30d GTCs were not available any more. Well: with Quantum Rise GTCs will be available in the ingame market, using ingame market mechanics, and they will be 30d. Let's see what market forces do when there's no possibility to 'fake post' and you can get 30d again.
My bet is on 350m+ for 30d.
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.06 21:38:00 -
[63]
Time to start using mommy and daddy's credit cards again, perhaps?
Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.06 21:39:00 -
[64]
I doubt GTCs were $12 for 30d, there's no way. I heard they were ~$17, but I never bought any so I have no idea _____________________
The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.11.06 21:48:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I doubt GTCs were $12 for 30d, there's no way. I heard they were ~$17, but I never bought any so I have no idea
They were at one point, then they went up to $15, and then $17, and then the GTC changes came. I know, I sold a few for ISK a while back when I had overspent my ISK and needed funds badly.
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Blastil
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:01:00 -
[66]
GTC traders expend extra money into the game that they would normally be throwing into groceries. Since there is not an unlimited ammount of real world money playing the game, GTC's will always be effected by RL issues. People would much more rather take a hit in EVE income in favor of paying bills and saving $40 or so every month.
Quit whining, and accept that some people now value their precious real world money more than funding you with cheep game time.
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cnuchavez
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:09:00 -
[67]
Get a job, get a debit card pay RL cash.
problem solved.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:16:00 -
[68]
As I mentioned in a thread earlier of this caliber:
Supply!=Demand*ISK in people's pockets.
Look at the sellers in the ETC forums, they are going out the door in under 10 minutes!
People have ISK and they *don't* have a problem with ETC prices. While supply continues to not meet demand, prices will continue going up. Economics 101. Now stop the whine and pay with a CC.
Improve Market Competition! |
Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:21:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs As I mentioned in a thread earlier of this caliber:
Supply!=Demand*ISK in people's pockets.
Look at the sellers in the ETC forums, they are going out the door in under 10 minutes!
Exactly. I don't normally sell GTCs, but I posted WST 4x60 @550m about two weeks ago (it seemed to be the going price at the time). I sold all four of them in five minutes and then had many more requests in the few minutes delay until I could update the thread to say it was sold.
If I had wanted, I easily could have sold a dozen at that price in 10 minutes time.
If these buyers are all ISK farmers just trying to fund game time so they can rake in more ISK for their out-of-game ISK-for-cash trade, then F-them. But I don't have a way to detect who is who, so I'm not in a position to figure that out. If CCP could, then great. I'd love to make sure they're not driving up prices for normal players. But that's out of my hands.
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Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.11.06 22:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I doubt GTCs were $12 for 30d, there's no way. I heard they were ~$17, but I never bought any so I have no idea
They were at one point, then they went up to $15, and then $17, and then the GTC changes came. I know, I sold a few for ISK a while back when I had overspent my ISK and needed funds badly.
In june and july this year 30d were 14.99 and 90d were 38.85, in july they removed them and introduced the 60d for 34.99. Prices from shatteredcrystals (some sites had slightly different prices, but we are talking cents here).
Originally by: CCP Mitnal So we can 1 v 1 with Garmon.
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Hegbard
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Posted - 2008.11.06 23:20:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Qordel
This complaint is like going to a bakery and being outraged that the baker has raised his prices, even though his own costs have risen. And then you justify it by telling him "but money is tight! we can't afford it! You're gouging us!". Without any thought or concern for the fact that the baker himself has higher costs and can barely afford HIS expenses.
Extending the bakeries analogy with a quote from Jose Ortega y Gasset:
"My thesis, therefore, is this: the very perfection with which the XIXth Century gave an organization to certain orders of existence has caused the masses benefited thereby to consider it, not as an organized, but as a natural system. Thus is explained and defined the absurd state of mind revealed by these masses; they are only concerned with their own well-bring, and at the same time they remain alien to the cause of that well-being. As they do not see, behind the benefits of civilisation, marvels of invention and construction which can only be maintained by great effort and foresight, they imagine that their role is limited to demanding these benefits peremptorily, as if they were natural rights. In the disturbances caused by scarcity of food, the mob goes in search of bread, and the means it employs is generally to wreck the bakeries. This may serve as a symbol of the attitude adopted, on a greater and more complicated scale, by the masses of to-day towards the civilisation by which they are supported."
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Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2008.11.07 00:03:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I doubt GTCs were $12 for 30d, there's no way. I heard they were ~$17, but I never bought any so I have no idea
They were at one point, then they went up to $15, and then $17, and then the GTC changes came. I know, I sold a few for ISK a while back when I had overspent my ISK and needed funds badly.
Thanks I pulled the number out of my bum from some vague memory of looking at GTC's a while ago (2 years) then scrapping that idea and used my credit card instead. Regardless I hope the GTC prices keep going up I love the GTC theorycrafting threads.
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ISpam
OHHAYGUYS
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Posted - 2008.11.07 00:16:00 -
[73]
I spit on the people selling gtcs for less than 750m.How am I supposed to make a profit when you undercut me like that?
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Temperamental
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Posted - 2008.11.07 00:18:00 -
[74]
There are a lot of people saying "Get a job, pay for it like 'everybody else'."
Other people saying that GTC buyers should be thankful they even have the option. That's true, it's great that we do have the option. I'm a university student who has played eve since 2004 and me and my roommates couldn't afford to fund a pizza party if we pooled all our assets together.
The point is, is that everyone chirping OP isn't seeing the opposite side of the same argument. Why don't people who sell the GTCs play the game and make money in game 'just like everyone else'? Shouldn't those people also be grateful that they too have the option to sell GTC?
The point is people, is that GTCs serve a purpose. Those who are strapped for cash have the option to have their accounts paid for by a third party. Those people who perhaps don't have enough time to make a lot of money in game to support pvp or whatever have the option to pay for someone's account in exchange for their ISK. CCP benefits because that's two accounts up and paid for when they might have had none.
The OP has a point that these prices do seem to be spiraling out of control. On the other hand, doesn't someone who has fronted their own real-life money have the right to set whatever prices they want? It's true that the rising prices threaten my ability to pay for my account, but what can you do?
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.11.07 00:43:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Temperamental There are a lot of people saying "Get a job, pay for it like 'everybody else'."
Other people saying that GTC buyers should be thankful they even have the option. That's true, it's great that we do have the option. I'm a university student who has played eve since 2004 and me and my roommates couldn't afford to fund a pizza party if we pooled all our assets together.
The point is, is that everyone chirping OP isn't seeing the opposite side of the same argument. Why don't people who sell the GTCs play the game and make money in game 'just like everyone else'? Shouldn't those people also be grateful that they too have the option to sell GTC?
The point is people, is that GTCs serve a purpose. Those who are strapped for cash have the option to have their accounts paid for by a third party. Those people who perhaps don't have enough time to make a lot of money in game to support pvp or whatever have the option to pay for someone's account in exchange for their ISK. CCP benefits because that's two accounts up and paid for when they might have had none.
The OP has a point that these prices do seem to be spiraling out of control. On the other hand, doesn't someone who has fronted their own real-life money have the right to set whatever prices they want? It's true that the rising prices threaten my ability to pay for my account, but what can you do?
Wisely said.
This is what I was getting at when I was talking about there being three variables in basic GTC pricing. there is the ISK, the time on the GTC, and the real money paid for the GTC. This is where the invisible hand of Supply and demand comes in. GTC sellers want to get a certain "Isk per dollar" value, and GTC buyers want to get a certian "time per isk" value. Where they meet in the middle is the base market price. Variations from there are controlled by the number of sellers vs the number of buyers.
Right now we have a situation where there are PILES of buyers and very few sellers. Thus, the price goes up. The only way the price will come down is for there to be either less buyers, or less sellers. With people closing some Alt accounts, that will provide some price relief as the demand drops. But unless more sellers enter the market, the price will still stay up and continue to rise.
personally, I suspect that the GTC market is a bit UNDER priced based on availablity. I'd imaine it will go up a bit more until more GTC cards with different values are released. Then we will see a bit of a break. Once more GTC sellers enter the market the price will REALLY come down. but not before then. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.07 01:59:00 -
[76]
Originally by: spud maur but what i would like to see is CCP set a price for these codes to be sold at with this new system they are introducing, one of my corp mates sold a few 60day codes this week for 600mill each and that is just a rip off so im all For CCP caping the price that can be charges for these
1) The new system isn't to set a fixed price. I'll be polite and limit myself to calling your idea "silly". If anything, it should make the exchange system much more dynamic and interesting for everybody involved.
2) Besides, if I was your Corp mate who sold codes and I saw you post that, I'd be waiting for you to undock in something delicate so I could turn you into something soft, squishy and capable of being scooped to cargo
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Sae Len
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Posted - 2008.11.07 07:55:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Anslo .If this is left unchecked, the players base for this game could potentially and drastically drop, which inevitably will affect market prices in game, which will inevitably lead to a crash where it will cost 100,000 to buy 100 pieces of Uranium M.
So far I'm seeing GTC forum getting swarmed with whole bunch of WTB posts for 500-550mil. All these players aren't apparently quitting over this.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.11.07 08:18:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Anslo
Socialist babbling......
Hail Comrade!!!!
Come the Revolution the capitalist logging dogs will sell us the antimatter to shoot their last clones with!
Then the glorious People's Pod Pilots Committee (PPPC) will seize the instruments of power, and will see to it that all GTCs are distributed on a basis actual need (as decided by the senior members of PPPC, who can be trusted...) NOT on such crass critera such as 'supply and demand', or 'ability to pay'......
Join us Working Pod Pilots!!!! All you have to lose is your account!!!
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.11.07 08:24:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Bimjo
yes I am,I sell GTC's when I need iskies,unlike the unemployed who play 23/7/365 and make their billions,I work in RL,buy ISKies,through GTC sales, and play a precious few hours a week(as I have a life outside of EVE)
Pretty much sums up whole "RMT"-scheme that MMO's currently have. My time is precious and I'm ready to pay for someone to "play" for me so I can progress while I don't have to play.
I still don't understand why MMO companies cannot fully endorse and support RMT? There is really no harm there. It's how reallife works. If you got the dollars you can do whatever you like with it. Those who are "less fortune" will have to work bit harder to be even with those who can simply buy their way IG.
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Numpty Head
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Posted - 2008.11.07 08:26:00 -
[80]
To the OP:
Supply and demand! Get used to it.
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wolfbuzz
Gallente Event.Horizon
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Posted - 2008.11.07 08:35:00 -
[81]
Somebody call the whaambulance.
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2008.11.07 09:55:00 -
[82]
if you dont like it buy your own gametime
Its all about question and demand..
besides i think 1 bill would be fair for current gtc prices. People have been spoiled all these years finaly some justice.
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.11.07 10:55:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Mankirks Wife on 07/11/2008 10:59:57
Originally by: Ana Vyr What I can't figure out is that you work all day (presumably) for money...and then you work during your playtime to pay for the game you want to play to relax from real-life work. Why not just pay for a sub with real money, so you can spend your liesure time actually playing the game for fun?
I dunno. I presented this argument in reverse - why do unfun stuff for ISK in-game and make 10mil/hr when I can do unfun stuff IRL, buy a GTC, and make about 550mil/hr, and I got flamed to hell and back.
Different strokes for different folks, is all I can say, though I'm not in the GTC market anymore as I bought all my toys and still have all the ISK I need for a very, very long time. Which will push prices up a bit. Sorry! ---
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Layckhaie Kaele
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:23:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Anslo
If this is left unchecked, the players base for this game could potentially and drastically drop
Originally by: Anslo So I must ask, just what the hell are you bastards thinking?
We are helping CCP fix the lag.
On a serious note, you need to realise that 12 months ago, a player buying a 60GTC to purchase isk would have to part with $35 from his/her disposable cash flow.
Today that same $35 comes from what is now a smaller disposable cash flow due to the global tightening of belts.
You make me laugh, you clearly state that the reason people pay for the game time using ISK is because they can not afford to use real life dollas... Well the people who buy the GTC to retail for isk can no longer afford to do so, or at least on a regular basis, so supply has recuded. The $35 for the GTC suddenly means a lot more to the seller.
If you can't keep up with the GTC prices, drop an alt for a bit until things come down, if it's your main, then fly T1 instead of T2, rat more, mission more, do what you have to.
If you can't do any of the above, then you can't play the game. It's that simple, and I am sorry for you because it's a great game, and clearly you like it.
However, one less person for demand, thus helping to balance the system.
Your prediction in people leaving the game in droves is a joke.
Originally by: Emo Anslo REDUCE GTC PRICES!!! OR ELSE WE ALL LEAVE!!!!
No.
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Gealbhan
Caldari Infernal Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:28:00 -
[85]
Real Life reflects GTC prices. I'll tell you how...
Ok, so RL is having a bit of a financial tantrum atm, everywhere. This means some people are having a problem making ends meet etc etc. now, along comes johnny so and so with some GTC's for sale and mr player thinks hey i can play eve for isk.
Demand goes up. Price of GTC goes up to refelct demand.
That's about it for economy 101, go blow something up (IN GAME!!)
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Stan Jens
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:30:00 -
[86]
I could buy these all day long...
If only paypal didn't suck so bad. Ive tried 3 x to enter an order at various sites, and "they are unable to verify my CC info"
Every time.
Id like to find somewhere that just does straight purchases, with email codes, and id put 50-100 cards out there today...
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Jim Hazard
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Posted - 2008.11.07 11:37:00 -
[87]
to lazy to read through the whole thing here, but its quite easy....
you dont want to pay 600 mil? then do not buy gtcs...
When you need to refer to real life already then start thinking about what you are saying...
Any company with a sense for business is asking for as much money for their products as ppl are willing to pay without going far above the prices of similiar products from different companys. So as long as ppl buy the GTCs no matter how much they cost ppl will just sell them for more and more money. They use the buyers idiocy to buy them at any cost, you can not blaim them for that.
Also LOL on the comment about oil prices ruining the worlds economy, that has nothing to do with it. Before you start posting something like that you should take some economy lessons....
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Ghostwind
Gallente Dead Skin Mask
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Posted - 2008.11.07 13:00:00 -
[88]
This has little to do with the current economic situation, but more to do with the fact that the sellers still sell at these prices. Stop buying and the prices will go down.
Prices go up or down no matter what the rl economic situation, as proven in the past concerning GTCs. It is mere greed, and because they can. Change that fact, and it will change. _______________________________________________
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.11.07 13:19:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Anslo Edited by: Anslo on 06/11/2008 15:42:00 I believe I and my fellow pilots have put up with this long enough. Before I continue I will say I am not begging nor am I asking for handouts, but this must be brought to light.
I have been monitoring and noticing a highly steady increase in GTC prices over the last few months. Before the 30 and 90 day GTCs were pulled off the market, general price levels of these GTCs remained constant. 120mil for 30, 250mil for 60 and i believe 500mil for 90, or around this general area.
As of now, 60 day GTC prices have been raised from 450mil 2 months ago, to 500mil last month, and now sellers are asking for 600mil. The isk price of these GTC's are not proportionate to the normal price CCP has set out. So I must ask, just what the hell are you bastards thinking? I do not refer to CCP, I do not refer to those buying the GTCs, I refer to to the sellers gouging their prices needlessly. I have yet to see a viable reason that this little group has to be raising their prices in such an audacious way. Many players cannot afford to use real cash so they rely on isk to do this. Now, players only play to pay for their damn cards, they cannot even afford new ships or equipment.
If this is left unchecked, the players base for this game could potentially and drastically drop, which inevitably will affect market prices in game, which will inevitably lead to a crash where it will cost 100,000 to buy 100 pieces of Uranium M.
Don't let this game go the way the real world did when oil companies needlesly raised their prices for gasoline. We all saw where that lead to, and was nearly disasterous. This GTC price gouging could also lead to disasterous ingame and company effects.
Stop the Price Gouging.
Stop greedy Merchants. *Note* my apologies for the text wall
Get a job.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.11.07 13:24:00 -
[90]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 07/11/2008 13:25:27
I'm a european who used to sell GTC's.
Quite frankly...
This
Originally by: Tellenta
My opinion just lies with percieved cost. Basically more people were willing to throw $12? away for a 30 day GTC. Now that the prices are $35 for a 60 day people will throw their money away less vigorously and covet the return more.
and This
Originally by: Hyveres It should be said that the dollar has strenghtened itself against most currencies(the yen being an exception) and that means a price hike for those of us not living in the states on top of the price increase for the cards themselves.
This also leads to fewer GTCs entering the market.
Sums it all up why I no longer sell GTC's. Removal of the 30 day timecard was painful. On top of the price increase, and then add the strengthening dollar.
Now add the credit crunch.
The gas and electric prices have gone on 30% in the last year. My bank went bust, and I lost all my shares too. Groceries are up around 40% in price too.
For example, my local shop used to sell milk for 99p a bottle last year, it's now ú1.40 a bottle.
My face now turns white when I see the bill for my two accounts when both 2 month GTC's end simultaneously.
I'm currently looking to transfer the higher skill character who is already trained for most of what I'd want him for onto the same account as the other, so I can end one subscription with the next few 2 months or so.
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DrefsabZN
Caldari Butterfly Effect Corp.
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Posted - 2008.11.07 15:19:00 -
[91]
I just sold some GTCs at 600mil per, I put up the post and within seconds people had replied asking for them. I think I should have put my prices higher now thinking back.
This time it cost me 25% more ú due to the USD => GBP exchange rate, so your damned right im gonna try and get as much isk for my hard earned money.
If you don't like the prices then don't pay them but as long as people are paying over what you are willing to pay then guess what, sellers will sell to them and not you.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2008.11.07 15:21:00 -
[92]
Stop ber whining and help the problem. Buy GTC's and start under pricing them. If you are not willing to do this, then stfu. Supply and Demand FTW!
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.07 15:53:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Anslo So I must ask, just what the hell are you bastards thinking?
They think that if someone still buys GTC for 600mil they would be stupid to sell them for less.
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Karasuma Akane
Dirty Sexy Pilots
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Posted - 2008.11.08 05:28:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Joss Sparq I'd be waiting for you to undock in something delicate so I could turn you into something soft, squishy and capable of being scooped to cargo
And you don't want that, Spud. Take it from me, Joss does... um... love his corpses. ---------- "annoyed trit bars can deliver quite an income"
Originally by: Richard Phallus
Originally by: Kyrial Tidolfas damn spies.
Damn counter intelligence officers.
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