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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
538
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Posted - 2012.04.07 18:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok Boys and Girls, and other assorted types,
We all know mining is boring as can be, this is the biggest draw back of the change to Eve's economic landscape. I went out and mined myself for the first time in quite a while to familiarize myself with it, a few moments later I woke up. Driving players crazy with tears of boredom isn't good. So what are the suggestions out there? Now before you get all excited about spamming the forums with your possibly wonderful or horrible ideas, keep a few basic rules in mind:
1) Never trust the client. 2) Attempt to not increase network traffic too much. 3) Provide for both active and not active methods. Not active would be like current mining. Not active yields less, and active yields more. 4) Active mode should be difficult if not impossible to bot, but not break rules one or two and not be a cumbersome chore for players.
Now don't forget Eve's backend is multi-tiered, there is no reason to not shuffle off the active mode mining portion to another service that then contacts the solar system node from time to time. So, ideas can be CPU intensive, though preferably not network intensive, a quandary I know.
Have at it ...
P.S. If the mods want to shuffle this off to F&I to die a slow death, ok. But it does seem germane to the hot topic of discussion these days. |
Toshiroma McDiesel
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
24
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Posted - 2012.04.07 18:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
The only problem with the idea of making mining "More Fun" is that anything that would make it More Fun (usually suggested clicky games) would also be more distracting from all that is going on around you, which would make a gankers job easier. The Valdspar is Holy, it must be allowed to float free. Free of lesser rocks that try to clutter it's Holy Path though the Heavens. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
522
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Posted - 2012.04.07 18:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Stop mining ?
Good suggestion. I nominate it, any seconds?
I second my own suggestion.
Awesome, movement carries.
/sarcasmn
Nerfing the hulks already pathetic tank is a better solution. Make it so a Velator can pop a hulk and drive more miners away.
Stupid profession, stupid crappy ship (wrap a condom around your manhood, stick it in a bear trap. Yep, it gets crushed just as easily as a hulk to a couple of destroyers and your manhood might be able to be reattached...not so much when recovering from an easy to destroy ship). Don't know why anyone would bother wasting their time for a hulk in its current format. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
81
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Posted - 2012.04.07 18:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Considering afk mining is it's own passive action, and I know they're trying to get rid of passive income. Honestly I don't know what they could do : / Clicking a module to continue an 'active' mining staring at some light show on a fixed rock is going to drive people into insanity. Honestly I think they should just change it into a massive fireworks, objective; destroy as many asteroids you can and scoop up the remnants, it'll be like salvaging, but at least get to make big explosions first. -á |
Kestrix
UV Heavy Industries
7
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Posted - 2012.04.07 18:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Try doing the washing up? hoovering? tidying up? Playing another game with eve in the background? These are all things you can do whilst mining... I'm sure you can find more if you put your mind to it. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
538
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Posted - 2012.04.07 18:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nylith Empyreal wrote:Considering afk mining is it's own passive action, and I know they're trying to get rid of passive income. Honestly I don't know what they could do : / Clicking a module to continue an 'active' mining staring at some light show on a fixed rock is going to drive people into insanity.
Yep, also true, the active mode shouldn't be something god awful repetitive and boring as well. Make it too cumbersome and people will hate it. Maybe something once every 30 seconds that needs to be adjusted would be good, but "mining tetris" or some such thing would be a bit much. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
538
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Posted - 2012.04.07 18:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Toshiroma McDiesel wrote:The only problem with the idea of making mining "More Fun" is that anything that would make it More Fun (usually suggested clicky games) would also be more distracting from all that is going on around you, which would make a gankers job easier.
Yep, which is why keeping the current method around isn't a bad idea. Even becomes more important in low sec and null. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
473
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Posted - 2012.04.07 19:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
how about instead of the current mining technique we have an extremely large field, we then destroy the roid, with chances of it dropping loot.. then collect it.
let any weapon kill roids but it reduces the ore drop chance this means instead of click mine button wait 10 mins or w.e
you warp to the belt, kill the roids, orcas tractor in the actual drops many roids will have nothing but others have lots. ect..
just a thought. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1079
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Posted - 2012.04.07 19:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
To be honest they could provide way to automatically mine (=ingame mining bot), but the yield should be 20-30 times slower than active mining. This could be done by providing some kind of mining drone container which can be anchored to belt. Player would need to haul the ore and relocate the device when it is full/belt is depleted. The device should be killable during wardecs and even the belt rats could attack it and the mining drones unless there are some combat drones remaining to protect it. No more than 24h yield should ever fit to the cargo hold of those thing. There should not be limitation how many of those can be anchored to belt, but in hisec concord should bill (rather high) daily fee from each anchored - mining or not. In lowsec and nullsec those would be free to kill and dead in no time without active player protection as the heavier belt rats would do their thing. In other words these would be mainly used in hisec only for most common ores.
Normal active mining with hulks and such should give enough yield to make it worth while even you mine only 4-5 hours in a week.
Dunno if this makes any sense, but in long term I would want to see this or some similar other semi passive mining solution as continuous daily active mining will get dull after a while.
Get |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
303
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Posted - 2012.04.07 19:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
As a newbie in a corp I helped in some mining ops and since I didn't have any mining skills i was tasked to carry the minerals from the cans near the hulks/orca back to station with my itty 3 (at the time). Except the station was in the next system. 5 hours of warping/jumping/warping/docking/undocking/warping/jumping was .. quite .. interesting .. now after remembering that I need to go kill something. To the whiners :-áCCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" CCP Recurve "However, Incursions are not the biggest ISK faucet, bounties are"
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
511
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Posted - 2012.04.07 19:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
I find mining quite fun. Today I had 2 alts doing it, while on my main I teached a new guy how to gank all the other miners around and then paid him 10 catalysts.
It was fireworks for hours and local was quite active.
Needless to say, I sell Exhumers, catalysts and Tornados and arties in the nearby hub. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Zircon Dasher
133
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Posted - 2012.04.07 19:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I find mining quite fun. Today I had 2 alts doing it, while on my main I teached a new guy how to gank all the other miners around and then paid him 10 catalysts.
It was fireworks for hours and local was quite active.
Needless to say, I sell Exhumers, catalysts and Tornados and arties in the nearby hub.
So in other words you find teaching someone how to gank fun and, since mining on 2 accounts takes such little attention, you made some money on the side?
just sayin' |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
414
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I find mining quite fun. Today I had 2 alts doing it, while on my main I teached a new guy how to gank all the other miners around and then paid him 10 catalysts.
It was fireworks for hours and local was quite active.
Needless to say, I sell Exhumers, catalysts and Tornados and arties in the nearby hub. So in other words you find teaching someone how to gank fun and, since mining on 2 accounts takes such little attention, you made some money on the side? just sayin' It's player vs player.
The others didn't get the sweet, sweet veldspar. Take all the tech Build all the titans Drop all the POSes
Bees incoming, nerf ERRYTHING ERRYDAY |
Aranakas
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
269
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
My fix for mining:
-Make it so that every so often, an asteroid will explode, and you have to dodge the debris. Then the asteroids set off a chain reaction and you have to dodge all sorts of asteroids in a bullet hell environment. Rock music will come on during these events and if you succeed, massive amounts of metal will be injected directly into your cargo hold.
Of course, mining ships would need to be made a lot faster and more agile for this to work. |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kestrix wrote:Try doing the washing up? hoovering? tidying up? Playing another game with eve in the background? These are all things you can do whilst mining... I'm sure you can find more if you put your mind to it.
Mining. The only profession that encourages you to not actively play the game to do it. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
82
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aranakas wrote:My fix for mining:
-Make it so that every so often, an asteroid will explode, and you have to dodge the debris. Then the asteroids set off a chain reaction and you have to dodge all sorts of asteroids in a bullet hell environment. Rock music will come on during these events and if you succeed, massive amounts of metal will be injected directly into your cargo hold.
Of course, mining ships would need to be made a lot faster and more agile for this to work.
Should give it various mode settings depending on how rare the ore is, it'll be like audio surf. -á |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
154
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:Stop mining ?
Good suggestion. I nominate it, any seconds?
I second my own suggestion.
Awesome, movement carries.
Brilliant idea, lets make it so only NPCs mine.
Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you. |
Culmen
Culmenation
1
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
You could copy star trek online Just the laser minigame not the hopping around asteroids
or you could basically have a captcha. A symbol behind some static, miner has to identify. techno babble explanation is that it's adjusting the frequency harmonics to the right calibration.
Or a randomized collection of minigames,
Trouble is, that mining is done on an industrial scale, and mini-game no matter how interesting is going to get boring quickly.
But then again Bejeweled has made more money than Eve ever did, so what do i know. |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Culmen wrote:But then again Bejeweled has made more money than Eve ever did, so what do i know.
Oh man, if EVE mining was like Bejeweled 3: Diamond Mine I would never sleep. |
Kestrix
UV Heavy Industries
7
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Posted - 2012.04.07 21:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
If you want to fix mining, make it more invloved, so you have to work at it to get the best results. Atm I warp to a belt lock onto a roid and activate the mining lasers and atl tab out of eve.
Make all the roids look the same so you can't visually tell them apart. Expand on the ore scanners by making us scan each roid to find out whats in it. Change the roids so that they all contain a % of every ore type and then let us choose the ore type we want to mine from the roid and by mining this type we lose all the other ore types in the roid as the mining laser tears the roid apart. This will allow CCP to add a chance that any roid scanned might hold a higher % of a rare ore type, a bit like in a Mission and getting a faction rat. To top it off make us have to manualy ajust the mining laser calibration in order to keep the ore extraction at 100% efficiency. Go afk or not pay atttention the mining laser loses efficiency and you end up with less ore than you could of got.
Hows that idea? |
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Mirima Thurander
Total Annihilation. G00DFELLAS
272
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Posted - 2012.04.07 21:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nylith Empyreal wrote:Considering afk mining is it's own passive action, and I know they're trying to get rid of passive income. Honestly I don't know what they could do : / Clicking a module to continue an 'active' mining staring at some light show on a fixed rock is going to drive people into insanity. Honestly I think they should just change it into a massive fireworks display. Objective; destroy as many asteroids you can and scoop up the remnants with a mining lazer potentially yielding rarer / more condensed ores and perhaps some weird elements as well. Just turn the belt into rubble and suck up the remnants with the current mining lasers. Hell if they time it and place the bombs right in micro fashion they can get a good chain reaction, that might actually yeild more and cost less explosives. And the bigger the asteroid the more TNT we'll use I tell you now, if you give us an asteroid belt with millions apon millions of asteroids and hte ability with enough careful planning to light the whole thing up in one big ass chain reaction it'll be the next funnest thing in eve below PVP
this sounds fun blowing stuff up is fun
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh.
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Zircon Dasher
133
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Posted - 2012.04.07 21:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
I wonder if the no-bot prerequisite to making any change to mining (or missions/ratting/anoms for that matter) is not unnecessarily complicating issues. A 50% improvement is still 50% better than things are today, even though it misses the "perfect" mark by a wide margin.
I also wonder if simple changes to cycle times and roid "size" do not help substantially. At least in regards to keeping people awake lol.
Right now, mining is like running missions in an FoF missle boat or afk drone boat. Once a few things are in place, you do not have to interact much. Some people like things this way (see all the Rattler pilots/tengu pilots running missions for further evidence), but most people who enjoy shooting red crosses would gouge thier eyes out if they were forced to do so in this manner.
Imagine a situation where: 1) cycle time on lasers = cycle time of guns/missles 2) the amount of ore contained in roids is decreased so that 1-15 cycles of max skill/implanted/boosted would pop the roid 3) a new module/script was added that allowed for mining multiple targeted roids, but at the cost of total m3/cycle and a HUGE increase in cycle time.
This would allow those who wish to afk thier mining to do so, like an afk Domi or FoF raven/tengu for shooting red crosses, but it would be at the expense of efficiency. Additionally, it would make it so that 1 player running 12 accounts was no longer equivalent to 12 players running 1 account each.
Just some prelim thoughts vOv |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
539
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Posted - 2012.04.07 21:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Some interesting ideas, some directions I'd not considered too. Keep em comming. :) |
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
266
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Posted - 2012.04.07 21:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm fixing the boredom of mining right now. |
bbb2020
Carebears with Attitude
0
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Posted - 2012.04.07 22:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
And I bet a spaceship, that noone of you ever mine in eve.
Funny how everyone that wants to change mining in eve don't do it themself.
Anyway: Read this blog and learn something new and in the light of eve being a space simulator, fundamentally true.
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/722262/eve-online-is-boring-on-purpose/
Edit: Here's the article from PC Gamer the blogpost above is based upon: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/29/why-eve-online-is-the-best-hangover-game-and-the-upcoming-hazing-of-dust-players/ |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
512
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Posted - 2012.04.07 22:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nope, I or my alts have done a bit of everything except scamming and including mining in hi, low and 0.0 sec. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Pop Bear
12
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Posted - 2012.04.07 22:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why fix mining? Its working just fine, the sheep, jingers and castouts of society have someting to call their own! WIN IMO... |
Danfen Fenix
Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance
52
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Posted - 2012.04.07 22:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
IMO, they should base it off the PI model.
Have the player scan the asteroid for deposits of the mineral, and then select an area on the asteroid to mine (with varying sizes of deposits on the asteroid). Every now and then, the miner shuts down/deposit depletes, and they have to resurvey. Only, instead of resurveying every few days, its done every few minutes?
The main thing that would have to be taken in to consideration with this is how to design the surveying section so you can still see whats going on around you & see if ships warp in. Currently, the planetary view stops you from pretty much interacting with your surroundings while doing it, but this isn't a problem with PI as it's usually done from a safe place such as POS or station
I wonder if the engine would be capable of just zooming in on the 'roid and showing the deposits on it without hindering the view of the overview or surrounding space. |
Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
229
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Posted - 2012.04.07 22:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Make the modules you fit matter with your yeild / discovery.
Produce kill mail for the roid
Do what that guy said anoint having to scan all rocks as who knows what's inside!
Also lower all cycles. 5 minute cycle? What on earth ? I think I missed a chapter in game development theory where you create a mechanic requiring players to immediately stop playing your game and go play something else.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
590
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Posted - 2012.04.07 23:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Since this appears to be a troll and filled with mining haters, I'll play along: make all asteroid belts the same as in The Blockade.
However if there is any seriousness in this thread: * Increase the EHP of all Exhumers significantly (>200m ships shouldn't be gankable by one month throw-away accounts with catalysts). * Increase the drone bay and drone bandwidth of all Exhumers. * Allow mining lasers to damage ships. * Make a mining ship that only uses drones. * Make a T3 ship that is bonused for gas harvesting. |
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