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Will someone fix the Gallente recons all ready?

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Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.20 02:19:00 - [1] It's pretty embarrassing when they can't even do their jobs against ONE battleship with a t1 sensor booster. Stop, hammer time.
Gram Hellfire Capital Ships Inc. Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.02.20 02:26:00 - [2] Edited by: Gram Hellfire on 20/02/2009 02:26:13 ohnoes! crap fittings don't work on bigger ships! Furthermore, already is a legitimate word!
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.20 02:34:00 - [3] Originally by: Gram Hellfire Edited by: Gram Hellfire on 20/02/2009 02:26:13 ohnoes! crap fittings don't work on bigger ships! Furthermore, already is a legitimate word! Not my ship, but 2 sensor damps with range scripts can't even bring a single sensor boosted BS to under 30 km.... pvp more or try EFT at the least before spewing crap. A curse can tracking disrupt and neut a BS to hell. A falcon can perma jam a BS to hell. A rapier can web a BS to REALLY slow speeds. But a fully bonused arazu with two t2 damps with range scripts can barely reduce the targeting range below their scram range? How is that right? Stop, hammer time.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.20 02:41:00 - [4] tackling a battleship with near invulnerability isn't any good? /me goes to eft and checks arazu vs abaddon. well 23.83km lock range with all level 5, and gang bonuses, and t2 sensor booster with range script, with 3 t2 damps and lock range. 21.67km lock range with no gang bonuses, 13.54km with no sensor booster. 45km damp optimal and 48km point range that gives the arazu quite a bit of room to mess up a bit. need to train my damp skills and medium hybrid skills. mmmm recon 5
MidnightMartyr Gallente NailorTech Industries Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.20 05:29:00 - [5] You may want to try 3 Damps... it works much better. Recons, after all, DO have a very big E-war focus. I fly my arazu on roams and it works just fine for me. You just have to know how to use it.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.20 06:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: Gram Hellfire Edited by: Gram Hellfire on 20/02/2009 02:26:13 ohnoes! crap fittings don't work on bigger ships! Furthermore, already is a legitimate word! A rapier can web a BS to REALLY slow speeds. But a fully bonused arazu with two t2 damps with range scripts can barely reduce the targeting range below their scram range? How is that right? No, not really. A slow battleship doesn't tank any worse than a fast battleship, sig radius is still the same unless you fit dual webs + target painter (3 Slots!) So, try 3 damps, and tell us how that works for you. ------------ Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2009.02.20 06:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton tackling a battleship with near invulnerability isn't any good? Well yeah it's great that you are invulnerable to that one BS while focusing all three of your damps on it. Not so great if that BS has friends since you have to operate within 40-45km. Rapier and Falcon both operate from farther away and can disable multiple ships at the same time. Arazu? Only one. Pilgrim operates much closer, but it can actually fit a decent tank and can still negate multiple opponents. Arazu? Still only one and no tank to speak of. Arazu sucks for anything other than ganking a solo victim with multiple ships. Not a terribly fantastic role there. It really needs it's damps boosted so it can negate multiple opponents like it used to be able to. Taxman VI: Voided Ledger
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.20 07:38:00 - [8] pssst... resolution script + ecm ... dont tell any1
Tefkros The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.20 07:42:00 - [9] Edited by: Tefkros on 20/02/2009 07:43:33 Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: Gram Hellfire Edited by: Gram Hellfire on 20/02/2009 02:26:13 ohnoes! crap fittings don't work on bigger ships! Furthermore, already is a legitimate word! Not my ship, but 2 sensor damps with range scripts can't even bring a single sensor boosted BS to under 30 km.... pvp more or try EFT at the least before spewing crap. A curse can tracking disrupt and neut a BS to hell. A falcon can perma jam a BS to hell. A rapier can web a BS to REALLY slow speeds. But a fully bonused arazu with two t2 damps with range scripts can barely reduce the targeting range below their scram range? How is that right? Let-¦s elaborate on how may levels the OP fails: Your fully bonused Arazu (I assume you mean Recons V), with only 2 phased dampeners, will bring a t2 sensor booster Abaddon to 32.5km lock range, while it can scram from 44km with a normal t2 disruptor. That-¦t with all lvl 5 skills. With more mainstream skills (like mine that I-¦m not trained too well in damps), it can damp it to 39.4km with only TWO dampeners, completely ignoring the fact that it can easily fit 3 to be completely safe. Why would you want to use a recon that has scram range bonuses to under 30km? Let-¦s see what happens to the amazing other recons you speak of. A Rapier with any number of webs, will web that BS. If it stays at his bonused range, the BS has 2 choices: 1. Load Scorch, deploy sentries, in general **** the Rapier in the face, or 2.warp out. If the Rapier chooses to be a hero and come in tackle range, which incidentally happens to be withing heavy neut range, you have one overpowered recon right there! The Curse. It can neut and TD to it-¦s heart content from bonused range, until said BS decides to 1. Shoot missiles 2. Warp off. If the Curse decides to be a hero and come in tackle range, you have another dead overpowered recon in your hands The Falcon. It can permajam the BS from 200km. Wow. Next! So far, for solo work, the Gallente recons are the only one that can most reliably tackle a target and keep it there with the greatest safely margin, well outside heavy neut range. Are you talking about fleet battle slugfests with BS, where you assume the Gallente recons won-¦t provide any benefit to the gang? With a primary webbed by the rest of the gang, neuted and blasted at point blank, neither your dampeners (oh wait, scal resolution maybe to buy your gang some time?), nor the Curses TDs and neuts or the Rapiers webs will amount to much. How about the day when your gang faces another gang with dual or triple Guradians, ECCM-¦d to the ears with 100+ signal strength? Falcons will tickle them, Curses must be in multiples to do any harm to dual Guardian caps, Rapiers will web them for no purpose at all, but a SINGLE USELESS LACHESIS THAT COSTS 50 MILLION COZ IT SUX will bring a Guardian and any other logistics ship to 30km lock range with a single damp. I-¦ll let your imagination do the math and predict what happens after that. Put a 1600mm plate on that gallente recon and you have a buffer as nice as any of the other recons, unless of course you want to nitpick to prove how wrong I am. Bottom line: If you want to use a single recon ship to wander around like an idiot wanting to shoot anything you encounter , you are doing it very wrong. They all have very specific roles that may or may not work in every situation. And if you put your brain to work sometimes, you will see that the 4 races-¦ recons complement each other amazingly well. Lachesis+Curse+Huginn+[Falcon if you suck too much]+ long range DPS ships (Cerbs, Ishtars, Zealots). There you go, perfect immunity. Target gets webbed, scrammed, neuted, TD and damped from 40km and pounded from 100. Nerf gangs, eh? Take your own advice and pvp more, because you seem to not have any clue about what your ships can and should do.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.02.20 07:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Perry pssst... resolution script + ecm ... dont tell any1 And why should they use Falcon+Arazu if they can use Falcon+Falcon? IMHO Arazus have really lost it. Damps relied on that dual effect to work, and they simply don't have it anymore. As such the Arazu is relegated to very particular situations. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.

Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.20 08:04:00 - [11] Well two Falcons have negative DPS... where as a falcon and an arazu can try to kill something. Add more Recons and you can even gank tanked targets. Dont compare an arazu to a deimos. Compare it to the other force recons and fit blasters and hammerhead II. Arazu has massive dps for its class. The faclon jams, the arzu makes sure missed cycles dont mean instadeath. Its a synergy. I know, doesnt fit into your min/max ideology.
Tefkros The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.20 08:08:00 - [12] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Perry pssst... resolution script + ecm ... dont tell any1 And why should they use Falcon+Arazu if they can use Falcon+Falcon? Because 1. Not everyone trains for a Falcon alt , 2. An Arazu may put a hostile Falcon out of the fight more reliably than another Falcon will, 3. An Arazu can disable MWDs from 20km away and 4. Some people prefer to have fun, use their situational awareness and tactics instead of sitting like monkeys jamming people, then jerking off because "they won".
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.02.20 08:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Tefkros Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Perry pssst... resolution script + ecm ... dont tell any1 And why should they use Falcon+Arazu if they can use Falcon+Falcon? Because 1. Not everyone trains for a Falcon alt , 2. An Arazu may put a hostile Falcon out of the fight more reliably than another Falcon will, 3. An Arazu can disable MWDs from 20km away and 4. Some people prefer to have fun, use their situational awareness and tactics instead of sitting like monkeys jamming people, then jerking off because "they won". 1. If you can fly an arazu effectively you're perhaps 1 month away from being able to fly a falcon effectively. 2. Reliably? Depends on the particular situation. Between roughly 30 and 70 km. Yes. Outside that, no. Not really. 3. That is a point. Seems like a rather limited point for a ship though considering the Arazus lack of tank. 4. I made the argument strictly from a min-maxing perspective. However, that doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with it as a player. Game balance however is often a matter of min-maxing. Should game balance favor a boring min-maxing playstyle? Should players be penalized for having fun? Perry: I'm not a min-maxer. It seems sad however that the damping aspect of the arazu is in the state it is. The Arazu used to be overpowered, but the nerf (removing the dual effect of damps completely) was way overboard. I used to have a lot of fun with arazus in the gang (or fighting against arazus). These days it's either arazus only decloaking when they have total superiority (and the ganked being pretty much in a "sit there and die" situation) or arazus getting pulverized. No in-between give&take situations. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2009.02.20 08:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Tefkros Because 1. Not everyone trains for a Falcon alt , 2. An Arazu may put a hostile Falcon out of the fight more reliably than another Falcon will, 3. An Arazu can disable MWDs from 20km away and 4. Some people prefer to have fun, use their situational awareness and tactics instead of sitting like monkeys jamming people, then jerking off because "they won". For somebody that doesn't fly an Arazu much, you seem to have some pretty interesting opinions about them. I would suggest you actually try taking one into a gang combat (ie. multiple opponents) and then offer an opinion. Taxman VI: Voided Ledger
Tefkros The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.20 09:27:00 - [15] Edited by: Tefkros on 20/02/2009 09:34:53 Edited by: Tefkros on 20/02/2009 09:31:17 Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Originally by: Tefkros Because 1. Not everyone trains for a Falcon alt , 2. An Arazu may put a hostile Falcon out of the fight more reliably than another Falcon will, 3. An Arazu can disable MWDs from 20km away and 4. Some people prefer to have fun, use their situational awareness and tactics instead of sitting like monkeys jamming people, then jerking off because "they won". For somebody that doesn't fly an Arazu much, you seem to have some pretty interesting opinions about them. I would suggest you actually try taking one into a gang combat (ie. multiple opponents) and then offer an opinion. Maybe I will, when the ones that don-¦t fly Curses and Rapiers stop commenting on how better they are than the Arazus until they fly them in actual combat against multiple opponents. But then again, when we take an Arazu into a gang (yes I have friends who know how to use them), we know their purpose, and the rest coordinate based each on others-¦ abilities and weaknesses. So refrain from your trite comments, because a ship in a gang that only it-¦s pilot knows what it can do, is a useless and more often than not, dead ship. Maybe all the Arazu/Lachesis pilots can offer some insight on the first post I made on this thread instead of dropping abstract comments on post of lesser significance?
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.20 09:44:00 - [16] Change the Damp bonus to +10% strength & falloff per level. Problem solved, along with a number of other problems.
Pac SubCom A.W.M	Posted - 2009.02.20 09:50:00 - [17] Edited by: Pac SubCom on 20/02/2009 09:53:55 Originally by: Tefkros 2. An Arazu may put a hostile Falcon out of the fight more reliably than another Falcon will If you fit for the task, you can neutralize two or three Falcons with a Gallente recon depending on positioning. [Under perfect conditions you can neuter one Falcon per med slot, that is if they all line up 80 km away and have no sensor boosters, a Lachesis can take seven Falcons out of the fight quite reliably.] Information warfare between Caldari and Gallente recons is the pinnacle of what an EW specialist can encounter in Eve imo (no disrespect for the disruption and painter community). Gallente recons can give a good account of themselves there. To bad that so few seem to be aware that information warfare of this kind exists. --------------- ∞ TQFE
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2009.02.20 10:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Tefkros Maybe all the Arazu/Lachesis pilots can offer some insight on the first post I made on this thread instead of dropping abstract comments on post of lesser significance? Wouldn't be a whole lot of point to doing that. Your first post merely restated what had already pointed out (arazus rule at tackling a solo opponent). Then followed with an attempt to justify the Arazu by proposing a rather silly scenario (3 Guardians with no BSs?). To be honest, your second post was infinitely more significant (if somewhat ignorant). Taxman VI: Voided Ledger
market mime	Posted - 2009.02.20 10:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff For somebody that doesn't fly an Arazu much, you seem to have some pretty interesting opinions about them. I would suggest you actually try taking one into a gang combat (ie. multiple opponents) and then offer an opinion. LOL, all the recons have trouble with multiple opponents.. thats their one major weakness. If your piloting skills suck.. yes you are going to lose a lot of gallente recons. Also stop comparing arazu to falcon as an argument for buffing arazu, compared to the falcon ALL the other recon ships, t2 cruisers, t2 bcs and battleships suck. They need to be nerfed, not everything else buffed. If anything this should be a "buff minmatar recons!" thread (from someone who can't and will never fly them).
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.20 10:26:00 - [20] gal recons are fine. they were already fixed. falcons are the ones that are broken. they will be brought in line soon enough.

TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.02.20 10:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia gal recons are fine. they were already fixed. falcons are the ones that are broken. they will be brought in line soon enough. Sorry to say it, but this. Once ECM is nerfed, people will start using damps as much as ECM.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Perry pssst... resolution script + ecm ... dont tell any1 And why should they use Falcon+Arazu if they can use Falcon+Falcon? This. Oh, I've suggested using Arazu as a "Falcon booster" to our guys. The answer is always "you're better off just bringing two Falcons". And you know what? They are right. Damps are too weak at the moment to compete on any meaningful level. If ECM is nerfed then the ballgame may change, but that the moment... meh. Lachesis with the 7 mids and good scan res makes a decent lowsec fast tackler, but that's about it. Arazu... don't bother undocking.
NoNah	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Perry pssst... resolution script + ecm ... dont tell any1 And why should they use Falcon+Arazu if they can use Falcon+Falcon? This. Oh, I've suggested using Arazu as a "Falcon booster" to our guys. The answer is always "you're better off just bringing two Falcons". And you know what? They are right. Damps are too weak at the moment to compete on any meaningful level. If ECM is nerfed then the ballgame may change, but that the moment... meh. Lachesis with the 7 mids and good scan res makes a decent lowsec fast tackler, but that's about it. Arazu... don't bother undocking. Oh the irony. The only real use would be to place it on one of those huge gates, with a decent faciton(read: Domination) warp disruptor and let it utilize a bunch of sensor boosters and pick off those that spawn far off. Generally high:0.0 gates. The Arazu is a very good boat in fact, as long as you entirely ignore it's damping uses and factor the fact that it's underestimated by just about everyone. All things said, Apocrypha brings what I like to consider the best executed damp boost I've seen in history of EVE. If it pans out well, I yet again salute you CCP. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 140648
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Perry pssst... resolution script + ecm ... dont tell any1 Chance based and wtf do you do, 50 jumps into hostile 0.0 when your ecm drones are dead. You use targetting range, period. But yah, OP fails for using 2 damps, that's quite tragic. If you have multiple hostiles and you need to damp more than one.. you are the one chosing when to decloak. And noone stops you from using a disruptor. Assuming you use 2 damps, I guess you fight multiple targets, which means you probably are there with friends (you got low damage anyway). Then let your friends use the scrambler, while you use the disruptor. I fly my dual recon team like that. Arazu with 4 damps, damp rigs, and disruptor. Pilgrim with faction scrambler and faction web (to get outside 10km). If I face two targets, I damp one to hell and back and nuke the other. Then Pilgrim is safe to go just outside 10km to scramble. That's another reason to fit MWD on the Arazu as well, make sure you can stay at range. The AB-fits with scrambler is damn fun when you can permalock a target, because yah, you get invulnerable. But then make yourself vulnerable to sensorboosters, gatecamps, etc.. It's not like you're painted into a corner and forced to fly one fit, is it?
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:45:00 - [25] Name one other recon that ABSOLUTELY needs 3 ewar modules to counter ONE t1 module on the target? ECM? Two racials at most take care of the target most of the time, even when it fits a t1 ECCM Webs? Two webs take care of most everything except the extreme cases. Neuts? Yeah, 2 medium neuts are nasty on a bonused amarr recon. Again, I don't fly this ship and it's a damn shame it can't be useful.. Stop, hammer time.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: Gram Hellfire Edited by: Gram Hellfire on 20/02/2009 02:26:13 ohnoes! crap fittings don't work on bigger ships! Furthermore, already is a legitimate word! Not my ship, but 2 sensor damps with range scripts can't even bring a single sensor boosted BS to under 30 km.... pvp more or try EFT at the least before spewing crap. A curse can tracking disrupt and neut a BS to hell. A falcon can perma jam a BS to hell. A rapier can web a BS to REALLY slow speeds. But a fully bonused arazu with two t2 damps with range scripts can barely reduce the targeting range below their scram range? How is that right? Use more damps? You know, the Falcon uses almosy all its mids for jammers?
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:49:00 - [27] And Tefkros, you are trying too hard. 32 km is DEATH for everyone but the arazu. If recons do their job they keep the enemy from doing something. The arazu does NOT. Anyone that wants to put any kind of kind of short range weapon can actively be targetted by the ship that supposed to have a "short" targeting range. Having to fit THREE mods is inexcusable, it's stupidly nerfed and it has been utter fail for a year now. Stop, hammer time.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.20 14:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Pac SubCom Edited by: Pac SubCom on 20/02/2009 09:53:55 Originally by: Tefkros 2. An Arazu may put a hostile Falcon out of the fight more reliably than another Falcon will If you fit for the task, you can neutralize two or three Falcons with a Gallente recon depending on positioning. [Under perfect conditions you can neuter one Falcon per med slot, that is if they all line up 80 km away and have no sensor boosters, a Lachesis can take seven Falcons out of the fight quite reliably.] Information warfare between Caldari and Gallente recons is the pinnacle of what an EW specialist can encounter in Eve imo (no disrespect for the disruption and painter community). Gallente recons can give a good account of themselves there. To bad that so few seem to be aware that information warfare of this kind exists. LIES. One t2 sensor booster will counter all of that. Two of them or one of them with a low slot mod or a rig is impossible to stop. Unless your Falcon pilots are giant pussies and stay at 150 km +. A single t2 booster with range script on a falcon+2 t2 bonused scripted remote damps still give the falcon a range of 60 km. More then enough range to still jam, and another ship will melt your face as soon as they hear you are putting ewar on their falcon pilot.....Try using it then. Stop, hammer time.
Tea Feltar	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:00:00 - [29] Ummm... my main's Arazu won out fleet fight in Jita cause it was the perfect time for it. I alone jumped into jita, and warped cloaked to 4-4. I slowboated 120km to their rook. I uncloaked and used 1 single T2 damp to render it utterly USELESS. My drones popped it while my fleet warped in and wtfpwned a fleet 3X bigger than ours, because they completely relied on the one rook. I even popped a Ranis that thought "OMG ez kill". Wrong. My 3 sensor damps turned the laughable 24km lock range of the Inty to 5KM, and used a scram while my drones quickly popped him also. L2Play. Don't expect a recon to be the end-all-be all ship.
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.02.20 15:11:00 - [30] First give the Pilgrim some well-deserved range. Then we can talk about Gallente recons. ------------------- Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005!



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