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SmokeyJones
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Posted - 2009.02.20 04:10:00 -
[1]
Hey guys, what did you think to create a feature to ask the miner to confirm a question or click somewhere to prove there is someone otherside.
You can create a special division in Concord that will roaming belts and mission spots.
When this ship approach a miner, he ask something and require him to do another thing to prove .
If didn't obey concord gives him an alert. After 3 alerts a GM should check what is happen.
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BrysonBennington
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Posted - 2009.02.20 04:17:00 -
[2]
I like this idea. It would work how the bot verification system works for numerous websites that ask you to input what you see in the box. Would put alot of illegal corporations out of business that employ these somewhat lazy methods of gaining wealth in EvE. It would also make room for more real live paying customer's, which put's more money in the coffer's in which to build better scenarios in the game.
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Great Citlalicue
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Posted - 2009.02.20 04:33:00 -
[3]
The prices for minerals are at all time high, this leads me to believe that there is a shortage of minerals. This leads to reduced production of ships and components which leads to less PVP. As such, any increase in supply is good.
It has always been my opinion that if something is so simple and so boring that it can be scripted it should be implemented into the game by the developers. eg. Autopilot.
Personally I would rather see people get reworded for not mining AFK.
PS: I donGÇÖt mine, never have and donGÇÖt have plans to in the next 6 months.
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BrysonBennington
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Posted - 2009.02.20 04:36:00 -
[4]
But still it would bring revenue into CCP in order to bring us better stories, upgrades and patches. EvE doesn't run off of the macro miners mining, EvE runs off of real world people at their keyboards and mice.
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Jannet Montard
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Posted - 2009.02.20 08:26:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: SmokeyJones
Hey guys, what did you think to create a feature to ask the miner to confirm a question or click somewhere to prove there is someone otherside.
You can create a special division in Concord that will roaming belts and mission spots.
When this ship approach a miner, he ask something and require him to do another thing to prove .
If didn't obey concord gives him an alert. After 3 alerts a GM should check what is happen.
Look it another way:
- Would you like to be approached by Concord at random times while fighting and getting a nice box "Input Xwwftc to confirm you are not a bot"?
- getting the same thing every 3-4 invention/building jobs?
- while you are setting up a POS?
- and so on
I, if bothered by Concord that way while mining would simply stop mining and get all my minerals from missions loot.
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Makhar
Independent Miners Guild
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:01:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Makhar on 20/02/2009 11:01:58
Originally by: BrysonBennington
It would bring revenue into CCP in order to bring us better stories, upgrades and patches
Maybe I missed something here, but .... how?
I think we can all agree that micro miners are a bad thing, but how does stopping people doing this get more money for CCP?
edit: typo
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Makhar
Independent Miners Guild
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jannet Montard
I, if bothered by Concord that way while mining would simply stop mining and get all my minerals from missions loot.
Agreed
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:09:00 -
[8]
To be honest, what's needed is for CCP to look into the feasibility of a built in scripting engine. Simple actions like having a hauler warp from the station to the miner and scooping the loot.
Mining is dull, but hauling for a miner is even more dull and the profit is practically non existant.
---
Originally by: 7shining7one7
a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever
b) those who believe there are are nuts
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jannet Montard
Originally by: SmokeyJones
Hey guys, what did you think to create a feature to ask the miner to confirm a question or click somewhere to prove there is someone otherside.
You can create a special division in Concord that will roaming belts and mission spots.
When this ship approach a miner, he ask something and require him to do another thing to prove .
If didn't obey concord gives him an alert. After 3 alerts a GM should check what is happen.
Look it another way:
- Would you like to be approached by Concord at random times while fighting and getting a nice box "Input Xwwftc to confirm you are not a bot"?
- getting the same thing every 3-4 invention/building jobs?
- while you are setting up a POS?
- and so on
I, if bothered by Concord that way while mining would simply stop mining and get all my minerals from missions loot.
more like this:
*eight concord frigates warp in, one with a diffuse white glow around it, the rest pulsing the same shade*
*message from concord*
"this is the Consolidated Cooperation and Relations Command. As per section 21 Paragraph 12 of the Unified Environmental Preservation Accord, you are requested and required to submit to testing of the calibration of your mining lasers. please lock your ship onto the illuminated CONCORD vessel and activate your mining equipment to begin testing procedure."
if you dont lock onto the correct vessel and start the lasers, you get flagged as per the OP.
there is no need to make it out of keeping by using a captcha, especially since those arnt totally effective against bots either.
if you have one of the concord ships glowing white, and the rest pulsing white out of sync with eachother so one is always on as well as the illuminated one, you will confuse any macro that tries to detect by color which one to lock, while still making it obvious to the player.
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Research Rachel
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:43:00 -
[10]
and having to deactivate your mining laser and activate it on something else makes it all so much better.
Macro miners are here to stay, either report those you think are or move on. We don't need more hassling of those of us who don't macro!
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Karentaki
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:50:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jannet Montard
- Would you like to be approached by Concord at random times while fighting and getting a nice box "Input Xwwftc to confirm you are not a bot"?
No. Combat is not something that could really be performed by a macro, so there would be little point.
Originally by: Jannet Montard
- getting the same thing every 3-4 invention/building jobs?
I wouldn't mind. It would take 10 seconds to complete a CAPTCHA and I doubt I'd be spending huge amounts of time installing jobs every day.
Originally by: Jannet Montard
- while you are setting up a POS?
YES! Completing a CAPTCHA every time I set up a POS would actually be MORE fun than setting up the POS and waiting for timers.
Originally by: Jannet Montard
I, if bothered by Concord that way while mining would simply stop mining and get all my minerals from missions loot.
Yes, I am well aware missions are broken and need to have the minerals from NPCs reduced.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Suiginryou Hitaiga
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:06:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Suiginryou Hitaiga on 20/02/2009 14:09:54
Serious mining with revenue of more than 1M ISK per run is not an easily automated process, so OP's idea will only impact newbie miners going on macro to make their 5M ISK for a cruiser or something. Such level of output, be it macroed or not, isn't going to really influence the global resource market.
Personally, i even doubt they can noticeably affect the local system market.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Research Rachel
and having to deactivate your mining laser and activate it on something else makes it all so much better.
unless you have absolutely no understanding of ship setups and thus cant make a ship with decent cap recharge, it might cost you about 5000isk to turn one laser off, point it at a ship for two seconds, then turn it off and turn it on the roid again.
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SmokeyJones
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jannet Montard
Look it another way:
- Would you like to be approached by Concord at random times while fighting and getting a nice box "Input Xwwftc to confirm you are not a bot"?
- getting the same thing every 3-4 invention/building jobs?
- while you are setting up a POS?
- and so on
I, if bothered by Concord that way while mining would simply stop mining and get all my minerals from missions loot.
I don't mind be approached by concord if i mine for a few hours. And the idea is not type anything, but click or confirm something.
Was thinking about something like this.
Concord approach and say: "Are you SmokeyJones right?" then a box appear with 5 button and request: "Please click the first letter of your name" . If he didnt click in this box correctly or ignore for 3-5 times, he got disconnected.
The main problem with macro is mining, i dont botther about invention, or setting up a POS. Concord should only verify people mining, like rats spawn random in these belts.
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morgs
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:59:00 -
[15]
quite easy to get around that they just reconnect every 2-3 hrs then
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SmokeyJones
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Research Rachel
and having to deactivate your mining laser and activate it on something else makes it all so much better.
Macro miners are here to stay, either report those you think are or move on. We don't need more hassling of those of us who don't macro!
Already reported 3 macro miners, and no one get banned.
The reason is simple. The program do randomly things while mining, like searching for a item at the market, taking a break in the station, change targets, etc... so its very hard to know who is macromining or not.
There is a lot of option out there.... :(
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SmokeyJones
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: morgs
quite easy to get around that they just reconnect every 2-3 hrs then
But if he got disconnect 2-3 times in a day, we can agree there is something really strange with his behavior... 
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morgs
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:22:00 -
[18]
that can be random as well
only thing you can do is bump them and see if they respond or move
any one who is micro mineing is likely be at the pc checking it from time to time to make sure evvery thing is ok, unless thay are selling it for isk, all thay are doing is mineing
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SmokeyJones
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: morgs
that can be random as well
only thing you can do is bump them and see if they respond or move
any one who is micro mineing is likely be at the pc checking it from time to time to make sure evvery thing is ok, unless thay are selling it for isk, all thay are doing is mineing
Ok, but at least they will need to be near the PC, not dinner, working or doing something else. Macro miners dont do it for 1-3 hours, they do it for 20 hours or so in a row.
There is f*c*ing macro miner that doesnt log off :(
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morgs
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:55:00 -
[20]
Edited by: morgs on 20/02/2009 16:57:52
not really you can script for that as well if you really wanted to but they are likely payed micro softwares that are blatantly for just eve micro mineing,
if i was an miner or the week corp gang up i likely be at the pc when using an quick micro simple mouse move+drag move>drop , as its an very repetitive task when rock gone just stop and lock onto next rock and pull the indi out every 5-20 mins depending if there are can flipers around, in 0.0 you cant afk but mouse move+drag move>drop can still be used as it only takes 2 buttons to stop it (i asusme thats what an defnition of an macro miner is or is it the ones that do it for 20 hrs)
i not really mined for more then 6-9 months but does get an bit repetitive after some time as it does not take long to fill most cargo holds
not defending micro users more the ones that are doing it for real out of game money, but an task that must be repeated same order every 20-30 secs can become an pain
alot of users are at the desktop so any popups questons would likey get done but it likey block the screen so he cargo hold would get full and we could then see the hard core macro miners spamming the forum then with companies about mesage is getting in my way
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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:18:00 -
[21]
make it like Eve Online client will not be opened if computer detects macromining software installed.
And please add a popup message like this:
CCP detected you are running a macromining tool. your account has been banned. pwned!!!
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Endemic Aggression
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Great Citlalicue
The prices for minerals are at all time high
Sorry to say but you failed at this point already.
Mineral prices go up and down and getting better price for minerals isn't really bad for a miner.
It's like irl industry yelling about raw material prices being too high and after government support etc. tax reductions and price drops they're selling end product at high price while they're getting raw material cheaper than ever 
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SmokeyJones
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Posted - 2009.02.20 21:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: morgs
not really you can script for that as well if you really wanted to but they are likely payed micro softwares that are blatantly for just eve micro mineing,
You can script everything you want, but you will still need to reply to concord. This will require user interation.
Originally by: morgs
if i was an miner or the week corp gang up i likely be at the pc when using an quick micro simple mouse move+drag move>drop , as its an very repetitive task when rock gone just stop and lock onto next rock and pull the indi out every 5-20 mins depending if there are can flipers around, in 0.0 you cant afk but mouse move+drag move>drop can still be used as it only takes 2 buttons to stop it (i asusme thats what an defnition of an macro miner is or is it the ones that do it for 20 hrs)
The benefict of use a macro mining is not be present in front of the computer. Most of the macro miners are really afk. They dont response to convo, dont defense themselves and do another act instead of mine and mine. This features focus on prevent this kind of user. I now its very hard to 100% of perfection, but if he need to pay attention at the window it will be a victory.
Originally by: morgs
not defending micro users more the ones that are doing it for real out of game money, but an task that must be repeated same order every 20-30 secs can become an pain
Mining take 2-3 minutes for each cicle. So in 10 minutes you have 3-4 cicles if you are in a gang. Meanwhile you will be able to prove you are human, doing what the window request.
Originally by: morgs
alot of users are at the desktop so any popups questons would likey get done but it likey block the screen so he cargo hold would get full and we could then see the hard core macro miners spamming the forum then with companies about mesage is getting in my way
hummm... block the cargo hold should be a good idea. This can be a feature to but put in industrial ships. I can imagine in every 5 minutes the cargo hold blocks, and the user will need to press a key, a button or something to openned it again.
(more ideas please)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.21 11:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: SmokeyJones
Originally by: morgs
quite easy to get around that they just reconnect every 2-3 hrs then
But if he got disconnect 2-3 times in a day, we can agree there is something really strange with his behavior...
You are serious?
Yesterday my backbone connection had some problem I have got disconetted like 5-6 times in a hour, most of them in the same room of a mission (I was re-connectiong as fast as possible as I didn't like the thought of losing a ship to DC).
Every player has some day like that every so often.
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Aya Sin
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Posted - 2009.02.21 11:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Karentaki
No. Combat is not something that could really be performed by a macro, so there would be little point.
You got to be kidding me. Did you ever fly missions in eve? Just warp in (there are macro haulers, so this part should be easy), target everything on the grid (macros can target roids, so I'd assume they can also target red 'roids'), pop it. How hard is that? Just fit a super tank and max range pewpew + small aggro drones. Sure it's not as fast as doing it manually with a gank fit, but it's "botable" 24/7.
Originally by: Karentaki
I wouldn't mind. It would take 10 seconds to complete a CAPTCHA and I doubt I'd be spending huge amounts of time installing jobs every day.
Seriously, the solution against macroing/botting is to increase game complexity. You try to do that by adding some lame captcha which might work, but it's completely out of game context (immersion breaking - some people still care about it). The better solution would be to make the task itself more complex. Others have already posted lots of good suggestions:
Have miners target specific spots on the roids for better yield, make the roids move so they have to follow them, make the roids collidable and cause damage to the ship on impact, make rats call for reinforcements if not shot down within half an hour or so, add significant benefit to scanning down a hidden field, anything. Just look through this forum and you'll find hundreds of good suggestions.
But don't just add some lame concord captcha check. All that would do is send a message that the devs have given up on mining.
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testalus rima
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.23 20:40:00 -
[26]
how funny is that?
so i cant go pee or sh*** any more??? nice...i mine to relax not for isk...for isk i would mission run
macro mining is a problem but trying to solve it by bugging people while mining is idiotic !!!
- make a random check while undocking but for every one like "please confirm your undock parameter" or sth
- make it while accessing anchored container "please confirm the access code" but with a chance 1/25 or sth
- make it while logging in next to the password "confirm key of the day"
- shuffle the alts
just make it not easy to use simply downloaded programs...but dont bug people while gaming!!!
hangars for frighters
asset and map |
NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.02.23 22:22:00 -
[27]
This is one of the worse ideas. I want to take a **** occasionally and not have to worry about anything except that I might miss my cycle time. I shouldn't have to worry about coming back to a pod and a wreck just because I had to leave my PC for a few minutes.
------------------------------------
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Sir Substance
Minmatar
MagiTech Alliance Inc.
MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.23 22:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: SmokeyJones
Originally by: morgs
quite easy to get around that they just reconnect every 2-3 hrs then
But if he got disconnect 2-3 times in a day, we can agree there is something really strange with his behavior...
You are serious?
Yesterday my backbone connection had some problem I have got disconetted like 5-6 times in a hour, most of them in the same room of a mission (I was re-connectiong as fast as possible as I didn't like the thought of losing a ship to DC).
Every player has some day like that every so often.
i have a dodgy router and an Australian internet connection. i disconnect probably 4 times a day on average.
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