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Salvation Crusade Attacked - Minmatar "Freedom" in Action

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Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.21 21:12:00 - [1] Today I read in disgust the story about the attack on the Salvation Crusade camp on Pator. MINMATAR ATTACK ON SALVATION CRUSADE As we all know the Cleric Abel Jarek of the Salvation Church of Blessed Servitude has travelled many days to reach Pator and establish a camp whereby servants of God could reach out to their Minmatar brothers and spread the word of God. Along the way great hardships and dangers appeared yet by grace of the Lord they made it. DANGER ENROUTE TO PATOR All this has made me question the apparent hypocrisy of the Minmatar society. After all these Minmatar claim to be "freedom fighters" and want to "free their people" yet here we have an example of freewilled Minmatar who have made a choice being attacked for that choice. Apparently Minmatar "freedom" doesn't extend to those who think differently. I find it ironic in fact that the sad reality of the Minmatar Republic is that so many don't know God and thus don't know true freedom when it's staring them in the face. Cleric Jarek has travelled to bring the words of God not by force but by friendship. This is how he is repaid for his generosity. While the Amarr make no secret our dedication and undying obedience to God we are at least honest in our actions. We are deliberate, decisive and determined. God is our guide on this journey and our master. We must obey. The Minmatar and their corrupt friends the Gallente however are far more insidious and deceptive then any Amarrian could imagine being. They actually claim to respect "freedom" and "choice" yet when that seems to go against the norm they resort to violence. This is a perfect example of Minmatar "freedom". Violence, fire and injury to innocents. Minmatar terrorism exposed to all. There is no denying the lie of their so-called "freedom" when things like this happen. I encourage all to pray for Cleric Abel Jarek and his associates in this trying time. May God lift them above the wanton violence of the Minmatar "free society" and bring those who attacked the Salvation Crusade to true realization that their sins are their own. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Graelyn Amarr Order of Catharsis	Posted - 2009.02.21 21:58:00 - [2] shakes head sadly 'Freedom', unfortunately, means only one thing to the Matari: Bending to Tribal tradition and dominance. Any among them thinking outside that box will soon understand the reality. Everyone lies. Good guys lose. And love does not conquer all. So let's do this thing.
Tar Kovsky Minmatar Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.02.21 22:48:00 - [3] This man Jarek clearly wants to die a "martyr" to his despicable faith. I see no reason to deny him his wish. --
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.21 22:53:00 - [4] Originally by: Tar Kovsky This man Jarek clearly wants to die a "martyr" to his despicable faith. I see no reason to deny him his wish. So go fire a 720mm howitzer into the refugee sector he's established himself in, and see how much the Matari thank you. Freedom means being willing to allow other people to do things their way. Something none of the galaxy's freedom fighters, of any stripe, seem to grasp. Mr. Jarek fails to grasp the concept as well. So, we have one zealot preaching to a crowd of other zealots. This will not end well for him, and it will just make the Matari look bad. Which is no doubt why he has received as much support from the Empress as he has. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Esna Pitoojee Amarr TalCorp Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.22 00:22:00 - [5] Can't say I'm surprised... after all, Jarek has met opposition every step of the way and surely knew what he was walking into. In fact, I have to admit that I don't entirely find the refugees to blame - many of them experienced the absoloute worst slavery can be, and they feel the need to lash out at someone - anyone - in return. No, what worries me is the continuing lack of support - even, caring - from the government about these actions. We saw how a small gang of frigates were able to engage Jarek's transport en route to Pator, without any intervention from either the automated sentry systems or the local 'police forces.' Now, we have reports that emergency services took an unusually long period of time to arrive at Jarek's encampment. While I have no doubt that the time it took them to arrive will be exagurrated, I also have no doubt that at least some of them didn't neccesarily make best speed to his encampment. ---------------------------------------------- Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you. My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp.
Drakonus Laerdon Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.22 00:35:00 - [6] Once again, the Minmatar Tribals make the case for their Enslavement. Minister Jarek is a brave man. May God protect him and his followers. --------------- Non Nobis, Domine, Non Nobis, Sed nomini tuo da gloriam.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.02.22 00:46:00 - [7] Hmm. In case God's protection doesn't do the trick... I figure the best way to answer terror is with better terror. I'll match any further attacks on this cleric with random killings of Minmatar pilots that happen across my sights. You republic halfwits are trying to burn down the one chance you get at peace with the Amarr - and I mean REAL peace - you'll ever get. I seriously suggest letting the cleric preach.
Kathryn Dougans Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm	Posted - 2009.02.22 00:48:00 - [8] Well that's unfortunate. These masked men who were directing things are more of a problem. It's one thing for spontaneous violence, but this direction is another thing entirely. Someone in power wants there to be more violence, to continue this war. Don't ask me about the cows.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Duty.	Posted - 2009.02.22 01:29:00 - [9] Methinks that if Jarek can't stand the heat, he should get the hell out of the kitchen. ----- Andreus Ixiris Duty. "Kein F++rst, kein Gott, kein Hass, kein Mitleid, kein Schmerz, nur ich"
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.22 02:01:00 - [10] Edited by: Stitcher on 22/02/2009 02:00:54 Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Methinks that if Jarek can't stand the heat, he should get the hell out of the kitchen. That's exactly the problem, though. He CAN stand the heat. He'll stand there and defy it until it kills him rather than back down. That man combines the heritage of two immensely stubborn peoples. He has his faith in God to keep him strong, and his Minmatar blood to make him tough. Men like that either die quickly and violently, or else they go on to build empires. Something tells me that Mr. Jarek is not in the latter category. If it weren't for the fact that betting on a man's life leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I'd have a lot of money riding on his being dead within a month. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.

Arnulf Ogunkoya Minmatar The Causality	Posted - 2009.02.22 02:53:00 - [11] The ironic thing is there has been a cleric preaching his own take on the Amarrian religion in the Republic for years. To the best of my knowledge no Matari has raised this big a fuss over him. That said Father Goose's take on the faith is a little off the mainstream (refers to the deity as "her" for one thing) and, to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't tried to build any cathedrals (especially in resettlement camps). Regards,
Sophie Starsparrow Minmatar Cwn Annwn Clan	Posted - 2009.02.22 03:22:00 - [12] Yet another example of the Amarrian ability to hold two contradicting thoughts in their heads at the same time. Originally by: Archbishop May God lift them above the wanton violence of the Minmatar "free society" and bring those who attacked the Salvation Crusade to true realization that their sins are their own. Are the attackers sins their own? Or the sins of Minmatar society? They can't really be both. It can be mutual, but then, their sins would hardly be "their own." This of course is not just a convenient way of avoiding the fact that Minmatar society, in fact, gave him the right to speak, but also way to insinuate that it was not an isolated group responsible for the attack Jarek. He was warned repeatedly this may happen. He and his fanatics chose to be provocative and succeeded in convincing another group of fanatics to attack them. Twist it how you will.
Faraelle Brightman Gallente Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.02.22 03:29:00 - [13] Edited by: Faraelle Brightman on 22/02/2009 03:30:28 Edited by: Faraelle Brightman on 22/02/2009 03:28:56 I know arguing with Archbishop and company gets no one anywhere but I feel oblidged to point out the likely scnerio if a priestess of Galactic Voodo came into the Empire, preaching the message of the universal jive and tried to build a temple to the gods Neutron, Warp and Drone. (I swear I didn't make those up; people acualy pray to this.) Presuming greatly that they would even be able to get that far. Just so no one can claim the moral high ground on matters of religious freedom here. ----------------------- "Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies."
Malthros Zenobia Cadian Special Operations Command	Posted - 2009.02.22 05:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Tar Kovsky This man Jarek clearly wants to die a "martyr" to his despicable faith. I see no reason to deny him his wish. "Theirs is a choice we disagree with, destroy them!" I thought only the Gallente and Amarr thought that way. I guess it's affecting you Minmatar as well now. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Vincent Death Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.02.22 06:08:00 - [15] Every Matari is free to act as he is told to act, speak as he is told to speak and think as he is told to think. What an enlightened society the freed slaves have to look forward to. At least the Amarr are honest about their oppression. The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.02.22 06:08:00 - [16] Originally by: Faraelle Brightman Edited by: Faraelle Brightman on 22/02/2009 03:30:28 Edited by: Faraelle Brightman on 22/02/2009 03:28:56 I know arguing with Archbishop and company gets no one anywhere but I feel oblidged to point out the likely scnerio if a priestess of Galactic Voodo came into the Empire, preaching the message of the universal jive and tried to build a temple to the gods Neutron, Warp and Drone. (I swear I didn't make those up; people acualy pray to this.) Presuming greatly that they would even be able to get that far. Just so no one can claim the moral high ground on matters of religious freedom here. The Amarr basis for moral superiority isn't freedom of speech, inclusionism or some sort of "multi-culturalism". The Minmatar and Gallente however are claiming that such things give them moral superiority, and incidents like these prove is that their claims are merely a thin veneer on the iron fist of Minmatar and Gallente oppression. And the argument "He wants to be a martyr, thus there is no problem in granting his wish" is pure hogwash. Jarek wants to expand the Amarr faith, Jarek wants to spread the word. If that means risking becoming a martyr, then so be it. But merely dying is not the motivation of anyone, martyrdom or not. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Faraelle Brightman Gallente Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:04:00 - [17] Edited by: Faraelle Brightman on 22/02/2009 07:07:25 Originally by: Vincent Death Every Matari is free to act as he is told to act, speak as he is told to speak and think as he is told to think. What an enlightened society the freed slaves have to look forward to. At least the Amarr are honest about their oppression. There are plenty of reasons for Minmatar rioting on Pator to be doing what they are doing that don't involve conformitisim. ...I don't like those reasons, or what they're doing but they exist nonetheless. This whole matter goes beyond the freedom to choose or not to choose, to worship or not. This is a grudge on a mass scale. You can't placate that with logic and self-satisfied stinging remarks. ----------------------- "Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies."
Casiella Truza Ecliptic Rift	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:15:00 - [18] "Cleric Jarek," heh. That rhymes. -- IC Twitter
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:19:00 - [19] What do you expect? This man comes to Matari space spouting the religous gibberish Amarrians use to justify slavery and gets an unwelcome response. Wow. How suprising. Look at the name of his cause: Church of Blessed Servitude ... what a fool, he may as well have painted a target on his forehead and said 'shoot me I'm a slaver'. Abel Jerek is an mis-guided idiot at best, at worst an Amarrian in all but his flesh, who understands freedom no better than the rest of you. Evidence of hypocrisy? I think not. Evidence of arrogant stupidity is what this is. The man needs putting out of his misery. If he wasn't entirely a waste of time I'd do it myself.
Vincent Death Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:30:00 - [20] If the Ammarian faith is so stupid, its preachers so foolish, why not let Jarek speak as he wills. Just because someone says something that is unpopular does not mean that he deserves death or the destruction of his property. I do not speak from self satisfaction. I take no satisfaction in the continued erosion of free thought within the Replubic. The fact that so many of you are happy at the supression and threats Jarek has faced highlights how far your society has sunk. The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism.

Faraelle Brightman Gallente Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel The Amarr basis for moral superiority isn't freedom of speech, inclusionism or some sort of "multi-culturalism". The Minmatar and Gallente however are claiming that such things give them moral superiority, and incidents like these prove is that their claims are merely a thin veneer on the iron fist of Minmatar and Gallente oppression. The Amarr basis for moral superiority is "serve God, the Empress and Amarr". In other words, Ammarians hold obedience as a core virtue. If you do not deny that, then it is hypocrytical to denounce other societies as tyranical in the same breath. "Holding two contradictory thoughts to be true at once", quite an apt description. You loyalist Ammatar, not unlike Master Jerek in many ways in being the feverent converted, are lately getting more peevish than the pure blood Ammar evangelists, all the more so now that the cluster knows the true story behind the Nefantir's defection. ----------------------- "Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies."
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.02.22 07:45:00 - [22] Vincent Death the mans stupidity has nothing in particular to do with what he says, but more to do with where he chooses to say it. Obviously he is entirely free to say what he wishes when and where he wishes. This thread is the result of him using that freedom. The fact many people find his words utterly offensive and wish to express their offence by ending him seems to be the point you (and others) are missing. Freedom of speech does not alleviate anyone from the responsibilty of living with the repercussions of their words. That is the whole point of freedom. Responsibilty for your actions. Obviously I think the Amarrian way is idiotic (to put it mildly), but that aside my point here is that to go into Matari space, preach the Amarrian way of slavery and then be suprised at getting a negative response is utter stupidity. It's like me expecting to fly around Providence in a hauler and not be fired upon.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.02.22 10:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Archbishop Today I read in disgust the story about the attack on the Salvation Crusade camp on Pator. Now you know how the Matari feel every time we read about your barabric slavery practices. If you torture us for centuries, we hold a grudge. If this surprises you, you are either naive, or you are acting. Keep your lackeys out of the Republic. He was told he will be attacked here, and he still came here. The only thing surprising about this is that he's not dead yet. Our radicals were impressively civil. I doubt that will stay this way, though. And if this man dies, the only thing responsible for it is his faith, and the only one responsible for it is his god.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.02.22 10:50:00 - [24] Originally by: Arkady Sadik And if this man dies, the only thing responsible for it is his faith, and the only one responsible for it is his god. No. If Abel Jarek dies the ones who are responsible for his death will be the ones who killed him. If someone is murdered the responsibility always lies on the hands of the person who murdered him. On the other hand, I don't mind if you argue to the opposite. If the minmatar people can not be held responsible for their own actions they must be taken into custody for their own protection. That's what we do with others who cannot be held accountable for their own actions, such as children and the insane. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:01:00 - [25] Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 22/02/2009 11:02:07 Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel If someone is murdered the responsibility always lies on the hands of the person who murdered him. If a Minmatar travels to Amarr, without appropriate security precautions, he is very likely to be taken as a slave and not return. The responsibility for this outcome lies with him, not with the people that enslaved him. If a capsuleer jumps his ship into a large hostile force, and loses it there, the responsibility for the loss lies with the capsuleer, not with the hostile force. In this particular case, it is not someone specific's fault if he dies. There are millions of people who want him hurt or dead. Most of them can restrain themselves, surprisingly enough. But it's only a question of time and random chance when this does not work anymore. He is in a deadly situation. If his faith forces him to stay there, it's the fault of his faith and his god if he dies. Whoever was chosen by random chance to lead the final blow is just the executor of the inevitable. Blaming the obvious results of your stupidity on others does not help you to improve, it only makes you dumber.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.02.22 11:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Arkady Sadik If a Minmatar travels to Amarr, without appropriate security precautions, he is very likely to be taken as a slave and not return. The responsibility for this outcome lies with him, not with the people that enslaved him. If a capsuleer jumps his ship into a large hostile force, and loses it there, the responsibility for the loss lies with the capsuleer, not with the hostile force. In this particular case, it is not someone specific's fault if he dies. There are millions of people who want him hurt or dead. Most of them can restrain themselves, surprisingly enough. But it's only a question of time and random chance when this does not work anymore. He is in a deadly situation. If his faith forces him to stay there, it's the fault of his faith and his god if he dies. Whoever was chosen by random chance to lead the final blow is just the executor of the inevitable. Blaming the obvious results of your stupidity on others does not help you to improve, it only makes you dumber. Nothing forced the Amarrians to enslaved the minmatar except the law and custom (and the word of god). Nothing forced those "hostile force" to open fire except that they wished to open fire. And of course that most capsuleers don't obey any law that they don't wish to follow. Nothing is forcing anyone to attempt to kill Abel Jarek. And the people responsible for his death will be the men who did the deed. Who ever risks something is obviously at fault for putting themselves at risk but, unless their killers happen to be unthinking beasts, the ultimate responsibility always lies with who ever did the deed. If a minmatar is enslaved in Amarrian space, well obviously someone will claim responsibility. As is custom and law. Also the custom (and to an extent law) of all who follow NBSI to destroy all thips that are not blue, and the ships of their enemies in particular (a fairly barbaric practice, but one that has developed as a response to the anarchic nature of open space). Are you saying that it's the minmatar custom and law to kill all who offend you? How barbaric. But given this incident and the Gallentean public execution it's not unexpected from the savages of the Gallente Federation and the Minmatar Republic. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2009.02.22 12:15:00 - [27] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Are you saying that it's the minmatar custom and law to kill all who offend you? No. If it were law, he would have died the moment he entered the Republic; if it were custom, he would be dead the moment he landed on Matar. Is misrepresenting other people's words and deeds custom and law for you?
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.22 13:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Karn Mithralia Vincent Death the mans stupidity has nothing in particular to do with what he says, but more to do with where he chooses to say it. Obviously he is entirely free to say what he wishes when and where he wishes. This thread is the result of him using that freedom. Freedom of speech does not alleviate anyone from the responsibilty of living with the repercussions of their words. That is the whole point of freedom. Responsibilty for your actions. Mr. Mithralia, we finally see eye to eye! This was my what I've been trying to explain to many freedom fighters for so long! Similarly, a slave in Amarr is free to hit his master, is free to escape, and even free to blaspheme. That slave does have to bear the responsibility for his actions if he does so. As you see now, both our societies offer equal freedoms! Fortunately, in Amarr society, the slave knows in advance what will likely happen if he exercises certain freedoms. However, in the Republic the illusion is upheld that the government will protect you from certain consequences if you do so. However, as the example of Jarek proves again, this is merely an illusion. Originally by: Karn Mithralia Obviously I think the Amarrian way is idiotic (to put it mildly), but that aside my point here is that to go into Matari space, preach the Amarrian way of slavery and then be suprised at getting a negative response is utter stupidity. It's like me expecting to fly around Providence in a hauler and not be fired upon. Indeed. I tell this to my slaves whenever I need to punish them. I will say, even mr. Mithralia, a freedom fighter to the core, thinks you are idiots for being surprised at getting a negative response for not obeying me. Take some responsibility for your actions! Please reread The Illusion of Freedom and find we are in agreement. I'm just sad it took a converted cleric to go preaching in the Republic to make you see the light. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Atharax	Posted - 2009.02.22 13:48:00 - [29] Edited by: Atharax on 22/02/2009 13:49:52 I am extremely distressed of hearing these news, even more so for hearing some of your comments on this matter. Here a man of God sets out to aid these lost souls and provide for their spiritual needs. That aid and support is met with a mob that tear all the noble work to shreds is one assault not only to the Salvation Crusade but on any believer of the only true God! Taedium sanus ut verum quod quondam puter sub is jugis oppugno. Sui temen simulatio omne in ea decorum exterminat.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.02.22 14:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Nothing forced the Amarrians to enslaved the minmatar except the law and custom (and the word of god). Wow, just wow. So let me get this straight.... Nothing forced them except everything (in the eyes of your average [Amarrian] law abiding, god fearing Amarrian). Jump Bridges? **** idea.



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