EVE Search - Salvation Crusade Attacked - Minmatar "Freedom" in Action

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Intergalactic Summit

Salvation Crusade Attacked - Minmatar "Freedom" in Action

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Shirley Serious Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra	Posted - 2009.02.26 15:53:00 - [61] Originally by: Searaph People absolutely have the right to say what they will. But they also have to accept that those actions may have consequences. The consequences just cant include the government locking you up because they dont like what you say. Can the consequences include the government sending masked men to lead rioting mobs because they don't like what you say? Yes. Yes, I am.
Louella Dougans Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine	Posted - 2009.02.26 17:12:00 - [62] Originally by: Blake Rathen Originally by: Louella Dougans I'm not entirely convinced. There's agitators about. Someone has an agenda, and is using those unfortunate souls in the refugee camps as pawns in their games. Some of them are going to die, just so someone's political games unfold the way they want them to. I wonder what hidden agenda you are referring to Ms. Dougans. If you have intel, please share it with us. Or it is of the 'restricted access' type? Masked men always have a hidden agenda. The ones leading the rioting were masked. So their objectives were: 1. Burn down the chapel 2. Not be identified while doing so. So who are they hiding their faces from? The authorities? Independent witnesses? The crowds of poor Minmitar that they're leading? Mother used to disapprove of my lifestyle
Searaph Minmatar United Freedom Front The 11th Hour	Posted - 2009.02.26 19:31:00 - [63] Originally by: Shirley Serious Can the consequences include the government sending masked men to lead rioting mobs because they don't like what you say? Absolutely not.
Inara Subaka Caldari the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.27 04:04:00 - [64] Originally by: Rodj Blake So the freedom of speech includes the freedom to commit arson? Apparently in the Republic it does. Inara scoffs slightly I'm sorry, I couldn't resist such an easy opening to jab at a group who has less self-control than a starving drooler next to a raw steak. A tone of sarcasm saturates Inara's voice as she continues If the stations didn't weaken the armor of my ships simply through corrosion alone, I think I could live in a society that allowed me to express my disagreements with the words someone was using by burning their public meeting places.
Stitcher Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.27 12:21:00 - [65] Originally by: Rodj Blake So the freedom of speech includes the freedom to commit arson? Not legally, no. Which is why the whole concept of "freedom of speech" appears to be something of a joke to me. There's always a law or a societal convention or even a base human instinct - a reasonable one, forbidding things such as arson or slander - which in practice places a restraint on freedom of speech. I much prefer a government that's up-front about placing restrictions on its citizens, than one which feeds them an illusory freedom. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.27 14:55:00 - [66] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Rodj Blake So the freedom of speech includes the freedom to commit arson? Not legally, no. Which is why the whole concept of "freedom of speech" appears to be something of a joke to me. There's always a law or a societal convention or even a base human instinct - a reasonable one, forbidding things such as arson or slander - which in practice places a restraint on freedom of speech. I much prefer a government that's up-front about placing restrictions on its citizens, than one which feeds them an illusory freedom. Then on that at least, we are in agreement. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Shirley Serious Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra	Posted - 2009.02.27 17:38:00 - [67] Originally by: Searaph Originally by: Shirley Serious Can the consequences include the government sending masked men to lead rioting mobs because they don't like what you say? Absolutely not. So, when it turns out that this was the work of RSS personnel, then we have a problem, no? Yes. Yes, I am.
Searaph Minmatar United Freedom Front The 11th Hour	Posted - 2009.02.28 20:43:00 - [68] Originally by: Shirley Serious So, when it turns out that this was the work of RSS personnel, then we have a problem, no? We would, indeed, if it did turn out that this was directed by RSS. Still, while the Amarr hold billions of people as property, the Amarr have precisely no moral standing to comment on where other governments dont measure up to their own ideals, from time to time. It is like a serial killer telling a shop lifter he is a bad person.
Edouard Creeslar	Posted - 2009.03.01 14:12:00 - [69] Originally by: Searaph Originally by: Shirley Serious Still, while the Amarr hold billions of people as property, the Amarr have precisely no moral standing to comment on where other governments dont measure up to their own ideals, from time to time. It is like a serial killer telling a shop lifter he is a bad person. While I personally abhor slavery and what the Amarr stand for I must point out this example is just wrong. The point here is not that the Amarr claim a moral superiority high ground but rather a moral consistency high ground. The Republic claims it wants freedom for all and yet here is a Matar exercising this freedom and being condemned for it. This is not a morality judgement but a hypocracy one. Your example therefore falls apart as rethoric and a poor attempt at spin. The simple truth is if the Matar are to live up to their ideals they must defend this mans right to preach. If they fail to do so they show they have no true moral standard to set their beliefs upon and in essence, sadly prove the Amar partially right. If the Matar truly wish to show discontent for this man there are ways to do so that do not violate the codes they claim to have. Boycott his events or even picket them. Merchants can refuse to do business with him. There are ways of free choice that do not violite HIS freedoms and yet get the message across. To use force to remove an opposing opinion is the SAME tactic used my the Amarr and in essence makes you as much like them as he is.
Jake Oman Minmatar Star Frontiers FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.03.01 21:49:00 - [70] I understand the rioter's anger, but attacking the camp was wrong. A counter-protest, or a impromptu memorial to the Amarr's slaves would have been more appropriate. From what I've read, it seems like Minmatar is becoming less of a republic and more of a tribal society. That's why I didn't join the militias when the wars restarted. As for the Amarr, let's just say that I'm glad that my parents smuggled me out. I'll take the immorality of being a pod pilot over enlightened submission. If your god has a problem with that, he knows where to find me in 0.0 space.

Daevonar Minmatar Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.03 19:02:00 - [71] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 26/02/2009 13:32:44 Originally by: Pac SubCom Deliberate, decisive and determined to systematically enslave TRILLIONS of people and kill billions over hundreds of years. And when some Minmatar beat up a couple dozen representatives of the terror, it is evidence for their moral failure and that their freedom is a lie? You don't have a leg to stand on. We enslave people and not only do we not deny it, we positively celebrate the fact. Meanwhile, the Minmatars constantly harp on about freedom of speech, whilst attempting to deny that right to anyone who disagrees with them. Whilst I agree with Louella that this attack is more manipulation than angry mob, you seem to be forgetting something in your arguement. Whilst Jarek is certainly free to speak as he wishes - as evidenced by the fact that he has not met any sanctioned resistance to his plans, i.e. the government or other authorities have not stopped him, something that would be unheard of if this was a Matari preacher trying to convert Amarrian's in Amarr - those around him, who listen to his words, are also free to decide how they wish to act. Personally I deplore the actions taken, they are short sighted and naieve at best (and most likely deliberately inflamatory in their aim), but do not be mistaken in thinking they show a lack of freedom of speech, it merely shows the other side of that coin, which is that with freedom of speech, comes the responsibility of facing the consequences of what you choose to say. Jarek was allowed to speak as he wished, if what he says causes others to react violently, then that is the consequence of what he has chosen to say, despite the clear secret co-ordination, the words of Jarek must have angered people enough that they allowed themselves to be manipulated in the first place. If your words incite people to violence, then you are just as much to blame for that violence as they are... no matter if those words were spoken in innocence or not. I always said Jarek should be allowed the freedom to make his speeches, and preach his faith, however I also always held that, like every other Matari, he will have to live and accept the consequences of his actions, be that success or failure. Such is the price for freedom of speech, thought and action... possibly this is why the majority of Amarrians are so willing to reject it for themselves. I only hope that Jarek learns from this. I had hoped that his coming may in some way help overthrow the subversive influence the Amarr theocracy have over their religion, which allows them to use it as justification of the oppression and subjugation of others. Of course, without knowing what exactly he is preaching, I do not know if he is merely regurgitating the prejudices of the Church leaders, or whether he truly has some enlightening insights to share about the faith. Perhaps I should go and hear him speak sometime. Dae.


Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.