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The dichotomy of [this] war

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Al'Htaed Minmatar Hug Nutz	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Crimson Justice Originally by: w00tle Edited by: w00tle on 23/02/2009 11:13:24 Originally by: Crimson Justice Are they camped in? Did Haargoth had a magical button sponsored by CCP that destroyed all clones they had? If so: GOOD JOB! In other news: camping station, gates and shooting POSes for a week without a major engagement is FUN! Goons definetly won EVE. Yesterday alone Goonswarm had roughly 180 kills. Thats 180 kills on a sunday, when its usually Pew Pew time. Someone call a brain-goon and make him calculate a kill/goon ratio, I think the numbers would be 180/5000 ? In comparison, Triumvirate Mk3 did with less than 400 members total 174 kills, including two motherships. But hey, as long as goons have colored excelsheets, its all good. Hmm yes lets ignore - for example - the day we killed a titan, an aeon, hanful of other caps, and hundreds of support, and killed 2-3 CSAA's (dont remember exact number). Let's ignor that because HEY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN ON THE SAME DAY. Yea, because killing CSAA's is alot more FUN than killing any other POS off. When destroyed it makes a rainbow-like animation, which totally pays off the countless hours of shooting a static object, because thats what EVE is about! w00pw00p ^^ Also, just for giggles lets scale up the numbers of TRI, so we argue on the goon-logic level with each other. 400 Tri kill 174 ships, incl. 2 MS on one day 5000 Tri would kill 2175 ships, incl. 25 motherships on one day Now, after applying that highly sophisticated goon-logic-math, would you please show me a killboard link where you killed 25 motherships on one day, along with over 2000 other kills? So what you're saying is: Kenny can't bring it?
Thomina Yorke Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:41:00 - [32] "cognitive dissonance"
w00tle Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:42:00 - [33] Edited by: w00tle on 23/02/2009 12:43:07 Originally by: Crimson Justice Originally by: Max Mekker Lets be honest with each other here. No smack, no meanness. Just truth. Sounds good to me. Originally by: Max Mekker If the situations were reversed and it was the Goons **caged in station or in empire or not logging on, you wouldnt be saying 'Wow, the Goonies are doing the smart thing by not attacking'. There would be much lulz and calls of cowardice. Tbh it would depend on a single factor. Would BoB come alone and do that to Goons or not. If BoB could muster 10k pilots like the train in Delve does atm, then no - there would be no foundation to mock the goons for doing the smart thing. If BoB came alone and did that to the Goons, I don't see how mockery wouldn't be justified. Originally by:** Max Mekker KFC on paper have as many pilots as the invaders, they just cant seem to get them on. I am pretty sure just seconds ago you mentioned something about "the truth". Saying KFC has the numbers of the invaders is stretching the truth by impressive margins. Using the "on paper" idiom, Goons are the largest force in EVE and wouldn't need a single ally. Yet they bring 2800 Morsus Mihi, 2000 Razor pilots and so on along for the ride. We both know thats not how EVE works. The invaders can field a thousand pilots at any given time in any system in delve from the looks of it. There is not a single alliance/coalition in EVE that can fight that. I understand that there is this opening for mockery and that given what BoB has done in the past there is even a justification of it. But its not the epic war people make it out to be. It has more of a feeling like China waging war against Taiwan. Someone actually added the number and it was pretty even for KFC vs Invaders. Also we dont "bring" our allies, the come if they want to. It's working out better than yelling at your pets and making them do the gruntwork. Also your numbers comparisons of number of alliances member to kills is ******ed and doesn't factor in many things that make it wrong (in and out of corp industrial numbers, market alts, people unsubbed, etc).
Alei Mulinitej Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:48:00 - [34] in this thread, we argue that beating an alliance's face in really isn't that fun after all
Thomina Yorke Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:49:00 - [35] at the end of the day it isnt the regions you take or the ships you killed, but whether you had fun or not this is a video game based on war and schadenfreude, and so whoever has the most fun at the expense of others is the winner i'm having great fun finally taking delve because it's been a goal i've had in EVE for a long time i'm not sure ken is having fun because they've played up "fortress delve" so much in the last few years that to lose it in such a way probably ****es them off quite a bit and so goonswarm and the coalition is winning, not because they're taking delve, or that they killed all those ships and control towers, but that they're having a lot of fun at the extreme expense of ken, who are obviously not having fun coalition: having fun ken: not having fun because of coalition therefore coalition is winning eve hope this helps you guys
Crimson Justice Gallente Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:52:00 - [36] Originally by: Max Mekker - clever reply - I actually appreciate your point of view and understand your perspective on things. As for allies: beside EXE, which has at least the numbers, Kenny really doesn't have any that are involved in Delve, do they? Or are you seriously comparing Skunk-Works to PL? And does one EXE outweight Razor+RAWR? Originally by: Al'Htaed So what you're saying is: Kenny can't bring it? Thats exactly what I am saying. Originally by: w00tle Also your numbers comparisons of number of alliances member to kills is ******ed and doesn't factor in many things that make it wrong (in and out of corp industrial numbers, market alts, people unsubbed, etc). As I said, it was calculated using goon-logic-math. If you find flaws in it, you clearly shouldn't be in goonswarm.
Vile rat Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 12:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Crimson Justice Originally by: Max Mekker Because killing baby titans (Sorry, 'Nyx's') isnt fun And maybe they arent killing enough because... well.. KFC won't really fight them. To be serious for a brief moment: Do you really get the same kick out of aborting a subcap in CSAA as you'd get from killing it off in a real fight - you know, when it can shoot back? As for your second statement: if you are a ManU fan in a subway and at one of the stations midway you see 120 Liverpool fans, taunting you and making fun of your beloved ManU ... leaving that subway to pick a fight with them does not make you a hero - it makes you a ******. If BoB/Kenny would undock / clonejump back to Delve, they'd give the NAPtrain EXACTLY what they want, pew pew and legitimate reasons to boast on the forums. By not doing that, Goons have to celebrate shooting POS modules, which is like cool and amazing, really. We're living in their space. PR- has all the targets they would ever want, right in their home system! Our capital fleets roam their space destroying their infrastructure virtually (heh) unopposed. What else do you suggest we do to get a fight? Handicap ourselves? Are you suggesting the only way we'll get a fight out of them is to back off a bit and give them a chance to recover? Maybe I'm suggesting that too!
Crimson Justice Gallente Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:21:00 - [38] Originally by: Vile rat What else do you suggest we do to get a fight? Handicap ourselves? Are you suggesting the only way we'll get a fight out of them is to back off a bit and give them a chance to recover? Maybe I'm suggesting that too! You know what others do? They provoke a fight by giving the enemy a bloody nose, then wait for their response. What the Goons/NC did here are locking BoB into their basement and wondering why they don't come up. I don't think anyone expects you to handicap yourselfs. For all I care, bring every pilot and their alts, even if the nodes crash every 5 minutes. But without an enemy present I don't understand how you classify it as "FUN". I confirm: I don't 'GET' goons.
w00tle Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:26:00 - [39] Originally by: Crimson Justice Originally by: Vile rat What else do you suggest we do to get a fight? Handicap ourselves? Are you suggesting the only way we'll get a fight out of them is to back off a bit and give them a chance to recover? Maybe I'm suggesting that too! You know what others do? They provoke a fight by giving the enemy a bloody nose, then wait for their response. What the Goons/NC did here are locking BoB into their basement and wondering why they don't come up. I don't think anyone expects you to handicap yourselfs. For all I care, bring every pilot and their alts, even if the nodes crash every 5 minutes. But without an enemy present I don't understand how you classify it as "FUN". I confirm: I don't 'GET' goons. What you clearly don't "get" is 0.0 and PvP. And by the way nice Jade Constantine moment as you dismiss a valid argument you can't answer by saying "lol you're a goon"
Ayman Zawahiri Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Crimson Justice Originally by: Vile rat What else do you suggest we do to get a fight? Handicap ourselves? Are you suggesting the only way we'll get a fight out of them is to back off a bit and give them a chance to recover? Maybe I'm suggesting that too! You know what others do? They provoke a fight by giving the enemy a bloody nose, then wait for their response. What the Goons/NC did here are locking BoB into their basement and wondering why they don't come up. I don't think anyone expects you to handicap yourselfs. For all I care, bring every pilot and their alts, even if the nodes crash every 5 minutes. But without an enemy present I don't understand how you classify it as "FUN". I confirm: I don't 'GET' goons. Oh no the game isn't fair. Life isn't fair. Things aren't fun because we aren't winning. What will we do now??!? tl;dr: MY E-HONOR IS WOUNDED.
Crimson Justice Gallente Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:31:00 - [41] Originally by: w00tle What you clearly don't "get" is 0.0 and PvP. And by the way nice Jade Constantine moment as you dismiss a valid argument you can't answer by saying "lol you're a goon" Oh I get PVP, trust me. It may have faded a bit, but when you have even numbers or are a bit outnumbered, I still get that rush from deciding "ok, we stay and fight right here". Shooting unfueled, defenseless POSes and their modules may be your version of PVP, its not mine. As for the "valid argument": I assume you mean the thing with the numbers? I didn't thought I'd have to, but I will indeed spell it out: S-A-R-C-A-S-M, which (so I thought) was quite obvious if you had read the text I wrote and understood it.
Ayman Zawahiri Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:37:00 - [42] Originally by: Crimson Justice Originally by: w00tle What you clearly don't "get" is 0.0 and PvP. And by the way nice Jade Constantine moment as you dismiss a valid argument you can't answer by saying "lol you're a goon" Oh I get PVP, trust me. It may have faded a bit, but when you have even numbers or are a bit outnumbered, I still get that rush from deciding "ok, we stay and fight right here". Shooting unfueled, defenseless POSes and their modules may be your version of PVP, its not mine. As for the "valid argument": I assume you mean the thing with the numbers? I didn't thought I'd have to, but I will indeed spell it out: S-A-R-C-A-S-M, which (so I thought) was quite obvious if you had read the text I wrote and understood it. Sometimes when I play street fighter IV and I start to win by too much i'll stop using block and just let the opponent hit me so I won't hurt their feelings. I feel way more manly when I beat people this way bro.
Vincent Athen Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:38:00 - [43] Edited by: Vincent Athen on 23/02/2009 13:37:59 Originally by: Crimson Justice Originally by: w00tle What you clearly don't "get" is 0.0 and PvP. And by the way nice Jade Constantine moment as you dismiss a valid argument you can't answer by saying "lol you're a goon" Oh I get PVP, trust me. It may have faded a bit, but when you have even numbers or are a bit outnumbered, I still get that rush from deciding "ok, we stay and fight right here". Shooting unfueled, defenseless POSes and their modules may be your version of PVP, its not mine. As for the "valid argument": I assume you mean the thing with the numbers? I didn't thought I'd have to, but I will indeed spell it out: S-A-R-C-A-S-M, which (so I thought) was quite obvious if you had read the text I wrote and understood it. Quick someone tell our fleets that these towers are unfueled. No worrying about reinforced mode anymore! Also they are defenseless. Feel free to warp fragile expensive ships to them, as they do not have guns like most POS do. ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ Allow me to space this post out with some more tildes to make it easy to understand. ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ Dismissing taking and holding space as not being PVP is rather telling of how little you do, in fact, "get". ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ -edit for more tildes-
Crimson Justice Gallente Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:39:00 - [44] Originally by: Ayman Zawahiri Sometimes when I play street fighter IV and I start to win by too much i'll stop using block and just let the opponent hit me so I won't hurt their feelings. I feel way more manly when I beat people this way bro. You feel manly because of Street Fighter IV? Also w00tle, with posts like this you really wonder why people dismiss arguments with "lol, you are goon" ? Really? I mean, really!? :sethmyers:
Ayman Zawahiri Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 13:40:00 - [45] Originally by: Crimson Justice Originally by: Ayman Zawahiri Sometimes when I play street fighter IV and I start to win by too much i'll stop using block and just let the opponent hit me so I won't hurt their feelings. I feel way more manly when I beat people this way bro. You feel manly because of Street Fighter IV? Also w00tle, with posts like this you really wonder why people dismiss arguments with "lol, you are goon" ? Really? I mean, really!? :sethmyers: Oh man please don't be dismissive of my quality arguments. I wouldn't know what I would do then.
Crimson Justice Gallente Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2009.02.23 14:04:00 - [46] Originally by: Ayman Zawahiri Oh man please don't be dismissive of my quality arguments. I wouldn't know what I would do then. Why don't you go Hadoken-Spam the computer-opponents in Street Fighter about it?
w00tle Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 14:04:00 - [47] w00t
Warrio Caldari Southern Cross Incorporated Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.02.23 14:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Max Mekker Originally by: Crimson Justice Tbh it would depend on a single factor. Would BoB come alone and do that to Goons or not. If BoB could muster 10k pilots like the ****train in Delve does atm, then no - there would be no foundation to mock the goons for doing the smart thing. If BoB came alone and did that to the Goons, I don't see how mockery wouldn't be justified. I am pretty sure just seconds ago you mentioned something about "the truth". Saying KFC has the numbers of the invaders is stretching the truth by impressive margins. Using the "on paper" idiom, Goons are the largest force in EVE and wouldn't need a single ally. Yet they bring 2800 Morsus Mihi, 2000 Razor pilots and so on along for the ride. We both know thats not how EVE works. The invaders can field a thousand pilots at any given time in any system in delve from the looks of it. There is not a single alliance/coalition in EVE that can fight that. I understand that there is this opening for mockery and that given what BoB has done in the past there is even a justification of it. But its not the epic war people make it out to be. It has more of a feeling like China waging war against Taiwan. So Bob is getting blobbed. Weren't they one of the ones who pioneered blobbing? So bob got disbanded by a hole in alliance mechanics. Again, weren't they one of the pioneers of exploiting bugs? As for numbers, what about Kenny's 'allies'? Are we not including them? Yes, the way EVE is now, it seems to be not what YOU can bring to the field, but what YOU and you ALLIES can bring. If we wanted to consider this from a roleplay standpoint (Hi Jade!) that makes sense. Rarely are wars fought just by two countries. Has it gotten out of control? Possibly. But I seem to remember a certain former 'most powerful relentless alliance in EVE with the initials BoB' saying ADAPT or DIE. Clearly, Bob died. Kenny is currently dying. Will they ever completely die, of course not. Are they relevant to EVE anymore besides being a punchline, no. To use your analogy, is it fair that China can bring more firepower than Taiwan? No. But then again, Taiwan shouldn't have given China a reason to attack. They did, they thought they could handle it and they can't. For good or bad, no matter what side you are on, we can all admit that this isn't done on a whim. Bob have burned a lot of bridges in game. They have garnered a lot of animosity. And now they are reaping what they have sown. And to play the Devil's Advocate, the same thing could be said of Goonswarm. Its possible the way EVE is that in 3 years we could be saying the same thing about Goonswarm or PL. You do things in game and there are consequences. These consequences might take years to show themselves... they are now. If we all sit here reading your well thought out reply there'll be no time for irrelevant comparisons and outlandish claims. sXe
Jukhta Mein Minmatar Thunderbolts	Posted - 2009.02.23 14:06:00 - [49] I'm more interested in the Ken/Goon dichotomy, why are they always at odds with each other?
Shinma Apollo Caldari Shut Up And Play	Posted - 2009.02.23 14:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Jukhta Mein I'm more interested in the Ken/Goon dichotomy, why are they always at odds with each other? I may be wrong, but I believe the conflict stems from a personal feud. You see, The Mitanni is actually Richard simmons, and lady scarlet is...well, lady scarlet.
Orange Faeces Minmatar THE INTERNET. Goodfellas.	Posted - 2009.02.23 14:49:00 - [51] Originally by: Crimson Justice Oh I get PVP, trust me. It may have faded a bit, but when you have even numbers or are a bit outnumbered, I still get that rush from deciding "ok, we stay and fight right here". Shooting unfueled, defenseless POSes and their modules may be your version of PVP, its not mine. As for the "valid argument": I assume you mean the thing with the numbers? I didn't thought I'd have to, but I will indeed spell it out: S-A-R-C-A-S-M, which (so I thought) was quite obvious if you had read the text I wrote and understood it. Backpeddling Detected! THE INTERNET. hereby awards this thread to The Swarm! oF ---
Max Mekker Caldari Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.02.23 15:09:00 - [52] Edited by: Max Mekker on 23/02/2009 15:09:55 Edited by: Max Mekker on 23/02/2009 15:09:29 Originally by: Crimson Justice I actually appreciate your point of view and understand your perspective on things. As for allies: beside EXE, which has at least the numbers, Kenny really doesn't have any that are involved in Delve, do they? Or are you seriously comparing Skunk-Works to PL? And does one EXE outweight Razor+RAWR? I am going to try to keep my replies as 'smack free' as possible and leave that to my wonderful goon allies. NAPing, building friendships between alliances, etc is all part of the game. Its part of real life dynamics between major world forces. Diplomats exist in game for a reason. If Ken don't have the allies to help them or if they aren't 'quality' allies, whose fault is this? This is clearly a facet of the game that Bob/Ken has ignored. It shouldnt be held against the 'anti-bob forces' that they have a common sense of purpose and the ability to get along with each other (whether its for as long as it takes to take delve or it extends longer then that.). Ken put themselves in this situation. They accepted allies or corps which most people thought were below par. Which people thought were below par long before the Haargoth incident. Almost every single 'argument' that Ken or its allies can bring up, I can say logically that they brought it upon themselves. Haargoth = Why do you have 'emo' inactive alts in your executive corp? No allies showing up = You picked them. Most of EVE against you = You burned those bridges and numerous posts said you relished being the 'underdog'.
Crimson Justice Gallente Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2009.02.23 15:28:00 - [53] Originally by: Max Mekker Almost every single 'argument' that Ken or its allies can bring up, I can say logically that they brought it upon themselves. That chain of argumentation is a bit flawed thou, as its quite generic and its application (outside a MMO) makes that quite obvious I believe: - People that drowned during a flood brought that on themselves - why did they had to live close to the shore? - People that get shot in a 24/7 grocery brought that on themselves - why don't they limit their shopping to daylight hours? and so on. People that get their (director) forums hacked simply didn't had security measures in place to prevent it. Corps that are victims of corp theft trust their members too much / are naive. So that argumentation can effectively be used to negate all the things people say made BoB so "evil" in their eyes.
Ykatni Gallente Black Nova Corp KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.23 15:35:00 - [54] Edited by: Ykatni on 23/02/2009 15:35:04 I wouldn't call it troubled times mate, more like interesting times. On another note, I don't think dichotomy really fits. I think "Pest synergy" would be a better technical term to describe your group of merry men.
Max Mekker Caldari Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.02.23 15:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Crimson Justice That chain of argumentation is a bit flawed thou, as its quite generic and its application (outside a MMO) makes that quite obvious I believe: - People that drowned during a flood brought that on themselves - why did they had to live close to the shore? - People that get shot in a 24/7 grocery brought that on themselves - why don't they limit their shopping to daylight hours?and so on. People that get their (director) forums hacked simply didn't had security measures in place to prevent it. Corps that are victims of corp theft trust their members too much / are naive. So that argumentation can effectively be used to negate all the things people say made BoB so "evil" in their eyes. No, the argument isnt flawed at all. This wasnt an act of god. This wasnt being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It also wasnt account hacking. This was the former Bob entity making someone who was currently away from the game a director in their executive corp. Which he didnt need to be. This is a choice they made, to make X person a director. They know (or should have known) that anyone in their executive corp could disband the alliance and in that case, should have done the same thing they should have done with their allies. Screened better. It was poor judgement on their part. It was lack of due diligence in checking in with Haargoth to see if things are cool. This was not a hurricane. This wasn't a robbery at a store. If you want to use an analogy: One of your friends has a key to your place. Over time, you keep on upsetting him (for whatever reason). Eventually, he decides to open up your house and take all your stuff and let his other friends in to trash it. You gave him the key. You have no one to blame but yourself. (The You is obviously bob, not speaking to you personally, Crimson.)
Crimson Justice Gallente Demon Theory UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2009.02.23 15:53:00 - [56] Edited by: Crimson Justice on 23/02/2009 15:57:01 Originally by: Max Mekker This was the former Bob entity making someone who was currently away from the game a director in their executive corp. Which he didnt need to be. This is a choice they made, to make X person a director. They know (or should have known) that anyone in their executive corp could disband the alliance and in that case, should have done the same thing they should have done with their allies. Screened better. It was poor judgement on their part. It was lack of due diligence in checking in with Haargoth to see if things are cool. I don't think there is a screening process for emorage. I don't claim to know how things are in your corp / alliance or how your allies are holding up, but people get demotivated, angry, critical, depressed, annoyed in any kind of group that has "normal" group dynamics. A fleet op doesn't go according to plan and everyone dies: people will get upset and maybe voice their anger/frustration. What are you supposed to do? Remove roles from everyone who ever voiced being unhappy with where the corp/ally is heading? This would effectively shut down any critical think process within the group, because of the fear of reprecussions (sp?). In Haargoth's case I'd assume that he earned the trust of quite a few people to get a director role in BNC as well as the executor corp of the alliance. So even if they had asked Haargoth: "how do you feel?" - I doubt he would have told them: "well, I am emoraging right now and might disband the alliance, steal as many capitals and modules and bpos as possible, kick all corps, render your defenses useless and join the alliance we fought the last 2 years - oh, and I feel like ordering pizza, I am hungry". All the goons who claim BoB got what they deserved when Haargoth betrayed them, because they didn't kiss his feet the whole time are trying to justify to themselves that they are now working hand in hand with such a person. "Yea, Haargoth isn't a backstabber - he got treated SOOO bad in BoB, that he effectively had to betray 2000+ players, no really - he did." I wish an alliance would treat me THAT bad as well - including the director role, free access to assets and thus carefree PVP. I've made friends myself in this game - and whilst its not a friendship that would qualify either of them to be my best man for example - I would entrust them some virtual possesions of mine, be it ships, a corp or an alliance.
Seijitsu Nakama Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 16:08:00 - [57] The trap has been sprung.
Brobuck Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 16:10:00 - [58] Originally by: Crimson Justice In Haargoth's case I'd assume that he earned the trust of quite a few people to get a director role in BNC as well as the executor corp of the alliance. What do you base this assumption on? You assume BoB wouldn't make bad decisions based on their history of good decision making? When was the last time they made a good decision? MAX was a failure. Remember MC? Turning -A- into allies has backfired. Since remote DD went away, I can't recall a good strategic move by Kenny.
FGxHalsey Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 16:21:00 - [59] Edited by: FGxHalsey on 23/02/2009 16:21:44 I love how they call us a napfest and try to berate us for 'not going it alone' when the whole concept of the GBC was to have a bunch of allies/slaves to help them fight wars. vOv
Himo Amasacia Minmatar Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.23 16:52:00 - [60] Its been established several times that the KFC can bring more numbers than those desperately calling my side a "nap fest". Of the forces fighting in Delve, the KFC outnumbers is in Raw pilots they could bring and in stockpiled resources. In the first big battle in Delve in J-L you outnumbered us 600 to 500. Your desperate clinging to memes is as delusional as it is hilarious. Quit making pathetic excuses and undock. "Constant practice devoted to one subject often outdoes both intelligence and skill." -Cicero

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