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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 42 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:37:00 -
[1]
We've heard all about wormholes and how Sleepers, the new NPC race, will inhabit these areas of mystery. But what do we really know about them? CCP Incognito fills us in with all the new AI changes that will be coming to NPCs (only Sleepers at this time, don't worry... or panic, as he writes). From high damage, intelligent and multi-targeting to repairing each other and evasive maneuvering, the new NPC AI will prove challenging to every player who encounters one of these souped up ships.
Learn all about the new AI by pointing your browsers here.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:41:00 -
[2]
awesome. cant wait to see all the cnr killmails
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Silevran Levanadel
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:42:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Silevran Levanadel on 23/02/2009 12:42:07 You forgot to link the comment thread to the blog
Edit: Damm, too late [URL=http://www.ff-fan.com][/URL] [URL=http://www.ff-fan.com/chartest]Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?[/URL] [URL=http://www.ff-fan.c |
Crollster
Marines Of A New Dawn
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:44:00 -
[4]
Sounds like it will be more of a challenge! :)
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:48:00 -
[5]
Oooohhhh.
Secure 3rd party service |
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:55:00 -
[6]
CCP Fallout said One of goals we have worked towards is making PvE combat more like PvP combat. I am still not sure that is a good idea. PvE players by their nature often dont like PvP combat. So adding in the PvP elements to PvE is only making PvE content that PvE people are not going like.
Sleepers feel like PvE content made for PvP players, not PvE content for PvE players. Ok thats over simplified and some PvE will like the new PvE content. I am not against the new changes and some of it sounds good I just hope CCP realise if they make PvE to much like PvP against NPCs they are going lose a lot of PvE players. Who are sleepers aimed at? Will the PvE people want to go out and fight PvP like battles against NPC's? Will the PvP people fight NPCs or will they see it as carebare ish.
Faction Warfare failed because it mixed PvE and PvP too much. To two need to be keep mostly separate.
____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Miniturret
Amarr Mining Under the influence of Sugar Pals
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:57:00 -
[7]
seems pretty decent I look forward to tougher smarter rats.
side note did a dev seriously just use the term dungeons as a reference in a space based game?
"We are not going to change 80% of the NPCs in the game. Your faction-fit Navy XXXX is still going to allow you to run LV 4 missions solo. We haven't changed the NPCs that spawn in belts, nor in any of the classic dungeons, but that may change in future iterations (post-Apocrypha)."
shouldn't that read either exploration sites or deadspace sites?
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Marnix
Gallente Game-Over
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:03:00 -
[8]
Looks good, but i hope the reward scales upwards aswell. Risk vs reward and all.
Also, part of what makes PvP fun is the knowledge that the other guy 'suffered'. He lost something he had to work for. NPCs can act like players all they wish, at the end of the day they respawn without effort. Killing NPCs will never have that feeling of satisfaction for me. NPCing is a way to sustain PvPing, and because of the lack of satisfaction will never replace it. That's also why i hope the reward will stay appropriate...
Anyway, wait and see.
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Siobhan Ni
Gallente Filthy Scum Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:05:00 -
[9]
If you really want to make the encounters more like pvp then have the sleepers smack talk in local and ransom you pod
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CCP Incognito
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:07:00 -
[10]
Just a note on the last paragraph of my blog, this blog was written a couple weeks ago. We are now feature complete and spending the remaining time to release on polish and tweaks.
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:07:00 -
[11]
...Do the sleepers spam the forums with OMGWTFBBQ-RAGEQUITS?
Please say they do!
---- I havenGÇÖt left my flat for over three months, since the council erected an iron door. |
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CCP Incognito
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Siobhan Ni If you really want to make the encounters more like pvp then have the sleepers smack talk in local and ransom you pod
Sorry I tried really really hard but design would not let me make sleeper pod players :(
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:11:00 -
[13]
A question, you mention pvp-alike behaviour. But generally, small gang pvp (ie, not fleet fights) usually means that the enemy is not capable to NoS or fire at you from 80km away (except cruises/heavy missiles). Why not mention that the new NPCs have demi-god stats, where they can cover close to the whole grid without having to move, for example?
_________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. --- |
Arte
Damage over Time
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:17:00 -
[14]
Are all Sleeper spawns the same standard or do they scale up the further into W-Space you go?
From what's been reported so far, the sleepers are Chuck-Norris Fan Club officionados that give few people a fighting chance against them.
If this is the case for all encounters, I can imagine that only the best ships and most experienced players may end up taking them on and W-Space becomes limited to a select few by its very implimentation.
If it's scaled by the mass-limits on the wormholes limiting what ships can get thru, and therefore dictating how hard the spawns will be then it can indeed by a dip of the toe into the Pvp game by exploration, rather than a raging torrent of death that they have no chance against.
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Dax Ee'nnach
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 23/02/2009 12:59:16 CCP Fallout said "One of goals we have worked towards is making PvE combat more like PvP combat." I am still not sure that is a good idea. PvE players by their nature often dont like PvP combat. So adding in the PvP elements to PvE is only making PvE content that PvE people are not going like.
I believe this is a misconception. PvE players, by their nature, don't like Player vs Player combat. It is not the nature of the combat, it is the nature of the opponent. IMO, smarter AI will be something PvE players will enjoy. They can get a greater challenge but not have to deal with a player threat.
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CCP Incognito
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rivqua A question, you mention pvp-alike behaviour. But generally, small gang pvp (ie, not fleet fights) usually means that the enemy is not capable to NoS or fire at you from 80km away (except cruises/heavy missiles). Why not mention that the new NPCs have demi-god stats, where they can cover close to the whole grid without having to move, for example?
The sleepers have a wide range of ships from frigates to battle ships, each having different damage and orbit ranges. only the turrets sit there and snipe you from long range, there are plenty of ships that orbit at 10k or less.
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CCP Incognito
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Arte
If it's scaled by the mass-limits on the wormholes limiting what ships can get thru, and therefore dictating how hard the spawns will be then it can indeed by a dip of the toe into the Pvp game by exploration, rather than a raging torrent of death that they have no chance against.
:) I like that "raging torrent of death that they have no chance against."
yes the sleepers scale in difficulty the further in you go.
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Alyssa Kaeda
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:26:00 -
[18]
If and WHEN this new NPC AI comes to normal rats I DO HOPE that the rats also get the very same weapons as players use and no more devhax torpedoes from 100km away or Blasters that hit you from 50+ km or ... or...
In the end if it should resemble more a PvP encounter then the rules have to be the SAME for both sides.
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Morpheus77
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:27:00 -
[19]
From what I read in the forums I think that their offence/defense must be balanced. If you need a whole fleet to succesfully engage them, then you limit those rats(and WH space in general) to large corps and alliances. I understand that are not meant to be soloed, but how many small corps or gangs, would put a hard earned fleet to unknown space? The abilities to switch targets, spider tank, tgt approach etc, are a great improvement that adds diversity and a grade of difficulty already. Finally, I would like rats to pod you if they can, instead of having extraordinary dmg output for their size... / |
Coltach
SlingDraw Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:29:00 -
[20]
Do these sleepers with their new AI break the rules as much as their dumb AI brethren?
Do they spam 100km torpedoes, ecm at falcon ranges, have endless cap, use mwd + move at pre-nerf speeds?
I really like they'll be more challenging, but it sounds like you've missed a few points here. As others mentioned, PvE is about gathering resources for PvP and having rats with player resists or above, player damage or above, player EWAR or above without the drawbacks of such fits will do nothing but make alot of people... dissatisfied. The computer is a cheating bastard, we all know and accept, because we have traditionally had advantages over the computer. It sounds like you are taking that advantage away, while ignoring the computers bastardness
Will these new rats be as susceptible to EWAR as players, will they cap out like players aso. This is of paramount importance, and you'll have to address this one way or another. PvE fits are about sustainability. PvP fits are about burning out the other guy just 2 seconds before he does it to you. How has this disparity been addressed?
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CCP Incognito
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Coltach
Will these new rats be as susceptible to EWAR as players, will they cap out like players aso. This is of paramount importance, and you'll have to address this one way or another. PvE fits are about sustainability. PvP fits are about burning out the other guy just 2 seconds before he does it to you. How has this disparity been addressed?
We have some changes on the drawing board for e-war, but they didn't make the deadline for feature complete for the releases. you will have to wait until a future release to see them, but we are aware there is a unbalance between the e-war for npc vs players.
At some time they will be addressed, but not this release.
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Green Aen
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:34:00 -
[22]
awesome!!
one question though what about them shooting drones (switching between them and making them primary) ?
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Wolf Cry
Gallente Cursed Souls Vort3x.
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:42:00 -
[23]
The sleepers are gonna kill me |
Pliauga
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP Incognito
...
We have some changes on the drawing board for e-war, but they didn't make the deadline for feature complete for the releases. you will have to wait until a future release to see them, but we are aware there is a unbalance between the e-war for npc vs players.
At some time they will be addressed, but not this release.
Whoa.. hold it, they are immune to e-War? I mean e-War affects them just like current NPCs?
------- "Skynet" is my internet provider, should I be worried? |
Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:49:00 -
[25]
Threat? In before the EVE is becoming like WoW whines
Seriously though, I'm all for smarter npc's. Please throw them in missions and belts as well.
And just to fuel the WoW whines some more, but mostly since I think PVE needs more love...give us (more) PVE encounters that take a well balanced fleet to take on. Dps, logistics, ewar ect. Yes, I mean like dungeons that require a tank, healer, crowd control and dps
I'm quite aware that EVE is PVP oriented but in the end of the day we all need to make ISK. May as well promote teamwork to get an edge there.
CEO | Diary of a pod pilot |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:51:00 -
[26]
I heavily documented sleepers the best I could in a two post journal.
Basically I have this bottom line.
If you spot two ships your size or bigger you better warp asap because you're not winning that one. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 23/02/2009 13:55:40
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 23/02/2009 12:59:16 I am still not sure that is a good idea. PvE players by their nature often dont like PvP combat. So adding in the PvP elements to PvE is only making PvE content that PvE people are not going like.
Sleepers feel like PvE content made for PvP players, not PvE content for PvE players. Ok thats over simplified and some PvE will like the new PvE content. I am not against the new changes and some of it sounds good I just hope CCP realise if they make PvE to much like PvP against NPCs they are going lose a lot of PvE players. Who are sleepers aimed at? Will the PvE people want to go out and fight PvP like battles against NPC's? Will the PvP people fight NPCs or will they see it as carebare ish.
Faction Warfare failed because it mixed PvE and PvP too much. To two need to be keep mostly separate.
As somebody already mentionned it, what most PvE players don't like is facing other players, but quite enjoy if versatile tactics and strategies are required during NPC battles, which is not the case with the current PvE. The goal we wanted for Sleepers was to use PvP elements that bring skill into a PvE encounter, like having several ship classes needed for different roles, a fleet commander calling out proper targets, constant attention to your drones etc... We wanted to bring challenge and most importantly, fun into PvE interactions, which currently are summed up to shoot, destroy and collect rewards.
Furthermore, a huge disavantage PvE players have when doing missions in a competitive area (read low/null-security space) remains they specifically have to use PvE ship fits which make them quite vulnerable when they get spotted by player pirates. The Sleeper encounters will take place in unsecured and competitive places as well, meaning your PvE interaction may be disrupted by other players if not paying attention; would you prefer facing Sleepers with a regular PvE fit that stands no chance against other players or being able to attack Sleepers properly in a PvP setup you can also use to defend yourself if other players come along? Also, don't forget that due to the new Sleeper AI, any other evil player pirate warping in to attack you may also be considered a valid and juicy target for the NPCs, meaning you will stand a fair chances if spotted .
I hope you will understand that fighting Sleepers is just a complete new way to achieve PvE interactions, where regular mission solo-fittings won't work very well |
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.02.23 13:58:00 -
[28]
Quote: One of goals we have worked towards is making PvE combat more like PvP combat
AKA removing any differences the game has. Anyone who plays for the pve suddenly cant do that anymore but instead made it pvp only. Yaaay on content nerf.
Quote: This has a few benefits. First, new players get a taste of what PvP is like while still doing PvE encounters.
Oh... so "new players" are going to be going to wormspace... where local is delayed mode, essentially 0.0... and with new rats that PWNERATE you.
How smert is that. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Fakespace
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Posted - 2009.02.23 14:14:00 -
[29]
So, unlimited rang AND uber tank AND crazy dps AND (current npc-like) immune to e-War ?
This doesnt sound like something that has anything to do with PVP to me. Usually you can only do ONE (or maybe two) of these in a pvp setup, so these rats do not behave in any way similar to a player in a normal PVP scenario.
But then, maybe what was intended was just getting us to fly pvp fittet ships (and not pvp comparable rats).
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
...
I hope you will understand that fighting Sleepers is just a complete new way to achieve PvE interactions, where regular mission solo-fittings won't work very well
ok, so the rats doesnt behave like a pvp player would when looking at actual dps/tank/ew, but you have to use pvp fittet ships to kill'em... hmm, sounds ok
but then... for me it doesnt realy seems like a gang with pvp fit will have any better chance then a gang in pvm fittet ships (until the ew is overhauled that is)
So, what are we left with? trowing mass amount of cheap ships at them until they die, as in early goone-style pvp?
I realy realy hope i'm wrong here.
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2009.02.23 14:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Originally by: Siobhan Ni If you really want to make the encounters more like pvp then have the sleepers smack talk in local and ransom you pod
Sorry I tried really really hard but design would not let me make sleeper pod players :(
Phew, so at least they won't contact Pandemic then and arrange a casual triple-doomsday? Good news :)
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