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Nikoyaka Sasori	Posted - 2009.02.25 05:01:00 - [1] Edited by: Nikoyaka Sasori on 25/02/2009 05:04:55 [Drake, Buffer Tank, DPS fit (w/ lvl 5 skills)] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Warp Disruptor I Patterned Stasis Web I Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400 Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I Ancillary Current Router I Core Defence Field Extender I Ancillary Current Router I Hobgoblin II x5 CPU: 646.5/656.25 PWR: 1291.8/1324.19 53k ehp buffer tank 644 dps ( Rage ) (482 dps w/ Javelins) 1038 m/s w/ mwd Cap fully sustainable with 400's in Cap booster. thoughts?
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.02.25 05:03:00 - [2] Replace the cap injector with a Large shield extender, downgrade your neut to a small one and replace the RCU w/ a PDS or BCU (if you can fit it, needs a CPU implant I think). *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.25 05:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Soporo on 25/02/2009 05:08:28 Quote: thoughts? I'd call that a gank fit not a buffer fit, tbh.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.25 05:09:00 - [4] Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 25/02/2009 05:12:51 Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 25/02/2009 05:08:28 Quote: thoughts? I'd call that a gank fit not a buffer fit, tbh. aye, but isn't 50k ish ehp close to what you see on a plated buffer tanked harbinger or hurricane?
Nikoyaka Sasori	Posted - 2009.02.25 05:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Nikoyaka Sasori on 25/02/2009 05:25:22 Originally by: Artemis Rose Replace the cap injector with a Large shield extender, downgrade your neut to a small one and replace the RCU w/ a PDS or BCU (if you can fit it, needs a CPU implant I think). something like this? The extra shield buffer is nice but the cap makes me nervous tbh... as does the short range on the neut... I suppose I really only need it to run the MWD or Neut... would you do something different with rig slots? [Drake, gank/buffer 2] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Warp Disruptor I Patterned Stasis Web I Large Shield Extender II V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix Invulnerability Field II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Small Energy Neutralizer II Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 80k ehp buffer tank 644 dps ( Rage ) (482 dps w/ Javelins) 1038 m/s w/ mwd CPU: 651.5/656.25 PWR: 1084.55/1094.38
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.25 09:41:00 - [6] Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/02/2009 09:41:17 Don't worry about cap, don't bother with the neut. DC, 3x BCS MWD, web, disruptor/scrambler, LSE, 2x Inv 7x HAM II Warriors/light ECMs 3% PG implant Extender or hardener rigs Drop a bcs for a PDS if you don't have the PG implant.
Valandril Caldari Isks R Us	Posted - 2009.02.25 09:59:00 - [7] I don't see a target painter which u will need for them rages or my thorax will eat yar soul. Also why would u go for cap booster on ship that doesn't really use cap ? Swap it for something usefull like tp. Also i would drop one BCU for something usefull since 3rd doesn't give much oomph. ---
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.25 10:13:00 - [8] There is no need for a painter on a HAM Drake. Using a painter instead of a web on a ship operating in web range is stupid.
Valandril Caldari Isks R Us	Posted - 2009.02.25 10:19:00 - [9] Originally by: Gypsio III There is no need for a painter on a HAM Drake. Using a painter instead of a web on a ship operating in web range is stupid. Web = speed, painter = sig radius, and u can slap it instead of that pointless cap injector. Also this is obviously gang setup so u will not be at <10km range to opponent + TP will help other heavys in gang. ---
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.25 10:24:00 - [10] No, web is for speed and painter is for sig and speed, but web is much more effective than painter. I've already advised him to take the pointless cap booster. He's in a HAM Drake. Of course he's going to be within web range.
Valandril Caldari Isks R Us	Posted - 2009.02.25 10:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Gypsio III No, web is for speed and painter is for sig and speed, but web is much more effective than painter. I've already advised him to take the pointless cap booster. He's in a HAM Drake. Of course he's going to be within web range. WTB target painter that will affect someones speed. Also wts ability to read whole post before replying, you buy ? ---
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.25 10:32:00 - [12] Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/02/2009 10:36:26 All target painters do this, at least in terms of increasing missile damage on fast targets. Increasing a target's sig radius over the explosion radius of your missiles has the effect of increasing the explosion velocity of your missiles. Webbing a Thorax will let CN HAMs do full damage to your Thorax. Adding a painter will offer no benefit to you. A painter on a HAM Drake but without a webber is just stupid. On a HM Drake, however, a painter is more sensible, because you don't want to, or can't assume that, you can get within web range in a sensible amount of time. But we're talking about HAM Drakes. Also, the third BCS adds 13% missile. A lowslot ECCM can be useful, but the third BCS is a solid choice.
Valandril Caldari Isks R Us	Posted - 2009.02.25 10:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Valandril on 25/02/2009 10:43:28 Edited by: Valandril on 25/02/2009 10:42:31 Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/02/2009 10:36:26 All target painters do this, at least in terms of increasing missile damage on fast targets. Increasing a target's sig radius over the explosion radius of your missiles has the effect of increasing the explosion velocity of your missiles. You are mixing stuff, bad. TP increases signature radius which is counted vs explosion radius of missile, while speed is matched vs explosion velocity of the missile. Target painter does not affect targets velocity whatsoever ergo doesnt help with explosion velocity of yer missiles. In same manner, webbing someone down to even 0m/s won't affect his sig radius. ---
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.25 10:52:00 - [14] Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/02/2009 10:53:34 Originally by: Valandril You are mixing stuff, bad. TP increases signature radius which is counted vs explosion radius of missile, while speed is matched vs explosion velocity of the missile. Target painter does not affect targets velocity whatsoever ergo doesnt help with explosion velocity of yer missiles. It has that effect. Damage = Base_Damage * MIN(MIN(sig/Er,1),(Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5)) ) The missile damage formula quite clearly shows that increasing a target's sig above the explosion radius of your missiles has the effect of increasing damage dealt against fast targets - it has the effect of increasing your missiles' explosion velocity. This is obvious, really - it's why MWDs are only minimally effective for speed-tanking missiles - the ~625% speed boost is mostly cancelled by the 500% sig bloom. Anyway, back to your point of a painter on a HAM Drake. No, don't do it. HAM Drakes operate within web range, and a web is much more effective at increasing damage in non-optimal conditions than a painter. Your webbed Thorax will take full damage from CN HAMs when webbed. If you want to sacrifice another slot for a painter on a HAM Drake, then you could, but you'd be better off fitting another web, a scrambler or a tracking disruptor - unless you're specifically fitting it to support gangmates.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.02.25 10:56:00 - [15] Quote: He's in a HAM Drake. Of course he's going to be within web range. There is absolutely no reason that a HAM drake needs to be within web range if you decide you don't want it to be there. It has more than enough range on HAMs to sit much further out. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.25 11:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: He's in a HAM Drake. Of course he's going to be within web range. There is absolutely no reason that a HAM drake needs to be within web range if you decide you don't want it to be there. It has more than enough range on HAMs to sit much further out. Very true. I should have said that it's essential that a HAM Drake has the ability to operate effectively within web range.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:01:00 - [17] Current routers cost like 25-30M each last time i checked. That is almost as much as a drake costs. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Eardianm Duty.	Posted - 2009.02.25 12:20:00 - [18] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: He's in a HAM Drake. Of course he's going to be within web range. There is absolutely no reason that a HAM drake needs to be within web range if you decide you don't want it to be there. It has more than enough range on HAMs to sit much further out. Very true. I should have said that it's essential that a HAM Drake has the ability to operate effectively within web range. Which is an obtuse way of saying fit a web? Also, keep the small neut (or anything really), just offline it for overheat buffer. Pretty obvious, but your initial fit did include 2 ACR rigs, so best not to assume anything. --------------
Poast Warrior Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Eardianm Which is an obtuse way of saying fit a web? Also, keep the small neut (or anything really), just offline it for overheat buffer. Pretty obvious, but your initial fit did include 2 ACR rigs, so best not to assume anything. You mean the OP, not Gypsio. The PG4 is obviously the better choice, as it at least has a chance to survive in between ships.
Nikoyaka Sasori	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:07:00 - [20] Okay, Thanks for all the advice above. Taking that Advice, this is what I have modified my setup to. 67k EHP Buffer 644 DPS Rage / 589 Caldari Navy / 482 Javelins 28.1 Sensor Strength CPU: 656/656.25 PWR: 1083.55/1094.38 Quote: [Drake, gank3] Gravimetric Backup Array II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Small Energy Neutralizer I ( offline heatsink) Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 I liked the idea of the extra sensor strength since there are no FOFs available, and it cost me 13k ehp from the buffer to get it. I'm sure experience will tell me in time, but I'm wondering if that extra sensor strength I got was enough to matter when being jammed or would you need a larger increase than that to make it worthwhile?
Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:54:00 - [21] Originally by: Nikoyaka Sasori Okay, Thanks for all the advice above. Taking that Advice, this is what I have modified my setup to. 67k EHP Buffer 644 DPS Rage / 589 Caldari Navy / 482 Javelins 28.1 Sensor Strength CPU: 656/656.25 PWR: 1083.55/1094.38 Quote: [Drake, gank3] Gravimetric Backup Array II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Small Energy Neutralizer I ( offline heatsink) Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 I liked the idea of the extra sensor strength since there are no FOFs available, and it cost me 13k ehp from the buffer to get it. I'm sure experience will tell me in time, but I'm wondering if that extra sensor strength I got was enough to matter when being jammed or would you need a larger increase than that to make it worthwhile? Yeh that setups pretty much standard fit although id probs consider ecm drones instead of hobs maybe. swap the grav backup array for a dcu too it will be alot more useful. What dps do you get if you fit heavys instead of HAMs?
Nikoyaka Sasori	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Firkragg Yeh that setups pretty much standard fit although id probs consider ecm drones instead of hobs maybe. swap the grav backup array for a dcu too it will be alot more useful. What dps do you get if you fit heavys instead of HAMs? with heaviy launchers I get 554/Fury 507/C.N. 410 Precision. However if i use ECM drones instead of Hobbies, I lose 99 dps from either fit.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:56:00 - [23] HAMs do 25% more DPS than HMs. HMs do 20% less DPS than HAMs.
Flashetta	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Gypsio III HAMs do 25% more DPS than HMs. HMs do 20% less DPS than HAMs. Lol, how does that make since? That's like saying, My ship is red and yours is blue, but yours is blue and mine is purpole o.0
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:49:00 - [25] Originally by: Flashetta Originally by: Gypsio III HAMs do 25% more DPS than HMs. HMs do 20% less DPS than HAMs. Lol, how does that make since? That's like saying, My ship is red and yours is blue, but yours is blue and mine is purpole o.0 4 is 20% less than 5 (20% of 5 is 1) but 5 is 25% more than 4. (25% of 4 is 1) it's just different points of reference.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.02.25 18:57:00 - [26] Just 50 minutes for someone to demonstrate their ignorance of maths. How disappointing.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:20:00 - [27] How the PvP Drake should be fit: [Drake, PvP] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I (or disruptor, depending on gang) Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 The End. :)
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2009.02.25 19:25:00 - [28] I'm a huge fan of the small nos in that utility high. It allows you to use the MWD more and keep up tackle/hardeners despite neuting. I also really like a 24km point for tackle purposes. I'm torn between: 7x HAM II 1x Small Diminishing Nos 2x Invuln II 1x MWD II 1x Fleeting Web 1x t2 Point / Faint 1x f-s9 large extender 3x BCU II 1x Pseudo / DCU II 3x Extenders
Leoviscus Rukongai Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:31:00 - [29] I used to be a big proponent of the HAM Drake for PVP, but recently have come to the realization that it is really only effective in small gang warfare or solo PVP. In gangs of 7 or more I would recommend going with the HMs. The moderate loss in DPS is a fair trade off for the increased range. Realistically it is hard to dictate range against more than a few ships in a Drake. In recent engagements I found myself unable to put DPS on a majority of the primaries called by my FC and was relegated to engaging only those ships within my range. On my next roam, out of curiousity, I refitted my Drake for HMs and lost maybe 150 DPS but was able to be in the top 3 in damage to a majority of the ships we destroyed and scored a few final blows as well. I'm gonna start keeping 2 drakes fitted, 1 HAM, for small gang warfare, and 1 HM, for any other PVP ops. [url=http://rukon.evekb.co.uk/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=64030] [/url]
welsh wizard 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:31:00 - [30] Edited by: welsh wizard on 25/02/2009 20:32:18 Originally by: Sidus Isaacs How the PvP Drake should be fit: [Drake, PvP] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I (or disruptor, depending on gang) Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 The End. :) This. Needs a 1% launcher cpu implant though. edit: with a disruptor --------------- RIP Crazy Horse

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