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Lizardo
   |
Posted - 2004.08.10 16:28:00 -
[1]
Guys (meaning the forum managers)...you really need to get you act together.
One of you is busy locking threads that contain things discovered in this patch and referring them to "patch issues" where Kieron is SPECIFICALLY saying he does not want to hear about "nerfs" when in fact they way overdid it on missiles this time.
Or is it the intention of these forums to delete anything that criticizes CCP's latest changes, so that everything will be wonderful in this most perfect of all possible worlds?
I have seen this tendency among you for quite some time, and it seems to be growing: stifle dissent, quash dialogue, ignore user complaints, listen only to goodness about CCP.
Bet this thread too gets locked.
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Lizardo
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:28:00 -
[2]
Guys (meaning the forum managers)...you really need to get you act together.
One of you is busy locking threads that contain things discovered in this patch and referring them to "patch issues" where Kieron is SPECIFICALLY saying he does not want to hear about "nerfs" when in fact they way overdid it on missiles this time.
Or is it the intention of these forums to delete anything that criticizes CCP's latest changes, so that everything will be wonderful in this most perfect of all possible worlds?
I have seen this tendency among you for quite some time, and it seems to be growing: stifle dissent, quash dialogue, ignore user complaints, listen only to goodness about CCP.
Bet this thread too gets locked.
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Chaza Darkheart
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:30:00 -
[3]
They'll wipe your text before locking it.
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Chaza Darkheart
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:30:00 -
[4]
They'll wipe your text before locking it.
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Smooth Sherbert
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:30:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Lizardo
Bet this thread too gets locked.
boom. here i is. smooth as icecream.
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Smooth Sherbert
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lizardo
Bet this thread too gets locked.
boom. here i is. smooth as icecream.
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Lizardo
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 16:32:00 -
[7]
Oh...another point.
In doing this you are doing a serious disservice to CCP, because without community feedback, or community feedback that is skewed in a particular direction, they will not know that they have alienated the player base until subsrciptions fall through the floor.
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Lizardo
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:32:00 -
[8]
Oh...another point.
In doing this you are doing a serious disservice to CCP, because without community feedback, or community feedback that is skewed in a particular direction, they will not know that they have alienated the player base until subsrciptions fall through the floor.
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Nostradamu5
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:35:00 -
[9]
Lizardo All valid points but IBTL
Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug!
Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
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Nostradamu5
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:35:00 -
[10]
Lizardo All valid points but IBTL
Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug!
Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
|
Nostradamu5
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:44:00 -
[11]
What is this still here? The Mods must be all busy or something.
I believe Kieron was referring to "nerf" complaints being opened in the wrong forum, general discussion is not the catch all "***** forum".
Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug!
Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
|
Nostradamu5
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 16:44:00 -
[12]
What is this still here? The Mods must be all busy or something.
I believe Kieron was referring to "nerf" complaints being opened in the wrong forum, general discussion is not the catch all "***** forum".
Stop griping about server instability and go buy an EVE mug!
Additionally with the purchase of each mug you will receive two(2) invisible Elves.
|
kieron
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:48:00 -
[13]
In the thread you mentioned, I stated, "Also, please keep posts to patch issues, *not* feedback about how "this patch nerfed X", as posts of this nature will cheerfully be deleted from this thread." That thread was created for the successful resolution of bugs.
The content of the post is what will determine whether the post will be deleted or not. "Missiles do X damage, where before they did Y damage." would be left alone. A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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kieron
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 16:48:00 -
[14]
In the thread you mentioned, I stated, "Also, please keep posts to patch issues, *not* feedback about how "this patch nerfed X", as posts of this nature will cheerfully be deleted from this thread." That thread was created for the successful resolution of bugs.
The content of the post is what will determine whether the post will be deleted or not. "Missiles do X damage, where before they did Y damage." would be left alone. A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Rancid Mare
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 16:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lizardo
Oh...another point.
In doing this you are doing a serious disservice to CCP, because without community feedback, or community feedback that is skewed in a particular direction, they will not know that they have alienated the player base until subsrciptions fall through the floor.
its a sad world we live in nowdays....
but the truth is that companys seem to think getting new customers is the be all and end all.
no consideration for keeping loyal customers.
methinks must be tens of tousands of new customers to be gained out there.
the choice is to keep you happy (after you have played for 12 months) = hard
or
gain new players with lots of wiz bang = lot easier
sorry dude but your satisfaction is not condusive to making mush isk in the real world.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
Rancid Mare
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 16:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lizardo
Oh...another point.
In doing this you are doing a serious disservice to CCP, because without community feedback, or community feedback that is skewed in a particular direction, they will not know that they have alienated the player base until subsrciptions fall through the floor.
its a sad world we live in nowdays....
but the truth is that companys seem to think getting new customers is the be all and end all.
no consideration for keeping loyal customers.
methinks must be tens of tousands of new customers to be gained out there.
the choice is to keep you happy (after you have played for 12 months) = hard
or
gain new players with lots of wiz bang = lot easier
sorry dude but your satisfaction is not condusive to making mush isk in the real world.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
Lizardo
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 16:52:00 -
[17]
Nice. But you fail to address the additional issue of your helper busily locking threads that provide an outlet for those feeling nerfed and referring them to the patch thread where you specifically say no such posts.
or are we playing a version of Catch-22 here?
|
Lizardo
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Posted - 2004.08.10 16:52:00 -
[18]
Nice. But you fail to address the additional issue of your helper busily locking threads that provide an outlet for those feeling nerfed and referring them to the patch thread where you specifically say no such posts.
or are we playing a version of Catch-22 here?
|
Orestes
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Posted - 2004.08.10 17:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lizardo
Nice. But you fail to address the additional issue of your helper busily locking threads that provide an outlet for those feeling nerfed and referring them to the patch thread where you specifically say no such posts.
or are we playing a version of Catch-22 here?
I've Pm-ed TomB moments ago. The missile 'nerf' is certainly not intended and will be fixed as soon as possible.
Any threads arising on the subject until now were 100% rants. Ranting is prohibited as per the forum rules.
Now, the misisle thing is going to be fixed as soon as possible. We apologise for the inconvenience this may or may not have caused (I imagine the npc pirates are rejoicing).
Join the IC! |
Orestes
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 17:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lizardo
Nice. But you fail to address the additional issue of your helper busily locking threads that provide an outlet for those feeling nerfed and referring them to the patch thread where you specifically say no such posts.
or are we playing a version of Catch-22 here?
I've Pm-ed TomB moments ago. The missile 'nerf' is certainly not intended and will be fixed as soon as possible.
Any threads arising on the subject until now were 100% rants. Ranting is prohibited as per the forum rules.
Now, the misisle thing is going to be fixed as soon as possible. We apologise for the inconvenience this may or may not have caused (I imagine the npc pirates are rejoicing).
Join the IC! |
Chaza Darkheart
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 17:08:00 -
[21]
Quote:
its a sad world we live in nowdays....
but the truth is that companys seem to think getting new customers is the be all and end all.
no consideration for keeping loyal customers.
You couldn't be more right, the more overcrowded the world becomes the less anyone cares about retaining customers since there's always tons of other suckers you can bring in just long enough to **** them off too. |
Chaza Darkheart
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 17:08:00 -
[22]
Quote:
its a sad world we live in nowdays....
but the truth is that companys seem to think getting new customers is the be all and end all.
no consideration for keeping loyal customers.
You couldn't be more right, the more overcrowded the world becomes the less anyone cares about retaining customers since there's always tons of other suckers you can bring in just long enough to **** them off too. |
NoNamium
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 17:14:00 -
[23]
Btw, what happened to "Tech 2 weapons will be in this patch"?
that was the only thing I was looking forward to in this patch
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NoNamium
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 17:14:00 -
[24]
Btw, what happened to "Tech 2 weapons will be in this patch"?
that was the only thing I was looking forward to in this patch
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Paw Sandberg
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 17:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Chaza Darkheart
Quote:
its a sad world we live in nowdays....
but the truth is that companys seem to think getting new customers is the be all and end all.
no consideration for keeping loyal customers.
You couldn't be more right, the more overcrowded the world becomes the less anyone cares about retaining customers since there's always tons of other suckers you can bring in just long enough to **** them off too.
come on guys i have played close to 12 months myself i am still here and proberly will be in 5 years (if eve still is)
EVE however does need new customers all games do if they dont get new players they die simple as that so to me it makes sense to do alot to get new customers
I do feel that CCP makes a effort to keep the existing customers happy (and i feel they do a fair job at it) granted their petition system takes to long but atleast they answer (eventuelly) there is many other games out there that does not
another problem with EVE is that many of the customers dont know what will make them happy
also with what 50k customers 25k might feel one way and the other 25k another you can not make everyone happy
also there is the thing called word of mouth (the only way eve atm is getting new customers) if you **** enough peoble off they will tell their friends (and their friends friends) and that will kill the bad games out there EVE is not a bad game it has its problems but overall its a good game
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
|
Paw Sandberg
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 17:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Chaza Darkheart
Quote:
its a sad world we live in nowdays....
but the truth is that companys seem to think getting new customers is the be all and end all.
no consideration for keeping loyal customers.
You couldn't be more right, the more overcrowded the world becomes the less anyone cares about retaining customers since there's always tons of other suckers you can bring in just long enough to **** them off too.
come on guys i have played close to 12 months myself i am still here and proberly will be in 5 years (if eve still is)
EVE however does need new customers all games do if they dont get new players they die simple as that so to me it makes sense to do alot to get new customers
I do feel that CCP makes a effort to keep the existing customers happy (and i feel they do a fair job at it) granted their petition system takes to long but atleast they answer (eventuelly) there is many other games out there that does not
another problem with EVE is that many of the customers dont know what will make them happy
also with what 50k customers 25k might feel one way and the other 25k another you can not make everyone happy
also there is the thing called word of mouth (the only way eve atm is getting new customers) if you **** enough peoble off they will tell their friends (and their friends friends) and that will kill the bad games out there EVE is not a bad game it has its problems but overall its a good game
Thank You
Paw Sandberg
for all your BPC needs see
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 18:14:00 -
[27]
OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11
 :)
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 18:14:00 -
[28]
OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11
:)
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Cortex Reaver
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 18:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
/*
Cortex Reaver
crtxreavr at trioptimum dot com
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759
*/ |
Cortex Reaver
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 18:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
/*
Cortex Reaver
crtxreavr at trioptimum dot com
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759
*/ |
F'nog
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 18:20:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
hear hear!
|
F'nog
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 18:20:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
hear hear!
|
Iznogud
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 18:23:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
Look at his corp ticker, maybe the only English he can speak is 1337 Languish and the same goes for those you meet in local
not all can type speak school English and i bet that if he typed in his native languish you would be the one saying WTF OMFG O.O
http://www.shinra.com/
Shinra Republic Artillery-round deliver
Izno~
|
Iznogud
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 18:23:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
Look at his corp ticker, maybe the only English he can speak is 1337 Languish and the same goes for those you meet in local
not all can type speak school English and i bet that if he typed in his native languish you would be the one saying WTF OMFG O.O
http://www.shinra.com/
Shinra Republic Artillery-round deliver
Izno~
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 21:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
Yes right, also i would respectfully suggest that the GM/Dev teams also
ban the following groups of people: the ones that speak any other language but english,
the ones that casually speak l337 just for the hell of it, and ah well, let's just ban everybody!
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 21:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
Yes right, also i would respectfully suggest that the GM/Dev teams also
ban the following groups of people: the ones that speak any other language but english,
the ones that casually speak l337 just for the hell of it, and ah well, let's just ban everybody!
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Paw Sandberg
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 21:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Vex Seraphim
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
Yes right, also i would respectfully suggest that the GM/Dev teams also
ban the following groups of people: the ones that speak any other language but english,
the ones that casually speak l337 just for the hell of it, and ah well, let's just ban everybody!
dumme skid
bare fordi jeg er dansk talende skal jeg bannes saadan noget LORT
|
Paw Sandberg
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 21:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vex Seraphim
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
-CR
Yes right, also i would respectfully suggest that the GM/Dev teams also
ban the following groups of people: the ones that speak any other language but english,
the ones that casually speak l337 just for the hell of it, and ah well, let's just ban everybody!
dumme skid
bare fordi jeg er dansk talende skal jeg bannes saadan noget LORT
|
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:03:00 -
[39]
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:03:00 -
[40]
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
Miri Tirzan
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:21:00 -
[41]
Turrets got the nerf again! So in CCP's perfect universe... little ships only have to fear equal size or smaller ships. Anyone else see something wrong with this logic?
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Miri Tirzan
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:21:00 -
[42]
Turrets got the nerf again! So in CCP's perfect universe... little ships only have to fear equal size or smaller ships. Anyone else see something wrong with this logic?
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:30:00 -
[43]
well cus this is not a ww1 or ww2 ship sim.
its based beyond modern day where even now a computer controled turret can hit a pt boat.
so work it out.
or is the only adv tech in these ships the warp drive.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:30:00 -
[44]
well cus this is not a ww1 or ww2 ship sim.
its based beyond modern day where even now a computer controled turret can hit a pt boat.
so work it out.
or is the only adv tech in these ships the warp drive.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
Ethan Kel
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:33:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Ethan Kel on 10/08/2004 23:09:43
I deleted this myself as i have further understood more clearly proper board usage.
|
Ethan Kel
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:33:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ethan Kel on 10/08/2004 23:09:43
I deleted this myself as i have further understood more clearly proper board usage.
|
Balthial Ashaere
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:40:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Balthial Ashaere on 10/08/2004 22:42:54
Originally by: fairimear
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
Fairi,
You're a fellow Gallente, so you should know the value of activism and free speech, and how well they work together. If we sit around and wait for someone else to do something, nothing will get done. I've already sent a letter to the moderators email address, and I would suggest you do the same, as you seem to feel the same way I do; and probably many othres.
Perhaps if enough of us make it clear that we won't tolerate our freedom of speech being trampled, someone up high will listen and this intolerable violation of our rights will stop.
(Honor to the Federation!  - Okay, I'm done now.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Balthial Ashaere
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:40:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Balthial Ashaere on 10/08/2004 22:42:54
Originally by: fairimear
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
Fairi,
You're a fellow Gallente, so you should know the value of activism and free speech, and how well they work together. If we sit around and wait for someone else to do something, nothing will get done. I've already sent a letter to the moderators email address, and I would suggest you do the same, as you seem to feel the same way I do; and probably many othres.
Perhaps if enough of us make it clear that we won't tolerate our freedom of speech being trampled, someone up high will listen and this intolerable violation of our rights will stop.
(Honor to the Federation! - Okay, I'm done now.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Marcus Davion
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:41:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Marcus Davion on 10/08/2004 22:43:41
Originally by: Ethan Kel
Ya and if they decide they personally dont like you they lock and delete what you post.
Dude you just never give up.....LOL
Exactly why do you think it's ok for you to insult someone on a personal level just because you a customer? If you bought my product and then spent most of your day calling me stupid because it doesn't conform to your desires I would censor you to.
An yea I read your original post and you didn't offer a single constructive thought. You rant should have been directed at the players of the game not CCP. Go back a few pages in the forums and you will find numerous locked threads just like yours calling for every single change CCP has made. So they did listen to some customer at some point, trouble is we don't all think the same way so we don't all want the same things.
|
Marcus Davion
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:41:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Marcus Davion on 10/08/2004 22:43:41
Originally by: Ethan Kel
Ya and if they decide they personally dont like you they lock and delete what you post.
Dude you just never give up.....LOL
Exactly why do you think it's ok for you to insult someone on a personal level just because you a customer? If you bought my product and then spent most of your day calling me stupid because it doesn't conform to your desires I would censor you to.
An yea I read your original post and you didn't offer a single constructive thought. You rant should have been directed at the players of the game not CCP. Go back a few pages in the forums and you will find numerous locked threads just like yours calling for every single change CCP has made. So they did listen to some customer at some point, trouble is we don't all think the same way so we don't all want the same things.
|
Myko
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:50:00 -
[51]
i wonder how many times it has to be repeated that CCP is an Icelandic company with this site hosted on servers based in London. Neither AFAIK has a freedom of speech enshrined in law. As a result, CCP are allowed to moderate the forum as they see fit as per the terms of usage of this site.
If you don't like it, set up your own eve site so we dont have to listen to your rantings about being modded for ranting 
|
Myko
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:50:00 -
[52]
i wonder how many times it has to be repeated that CCP is an Icelandic company with this site hosted on servers based in London. Neither AFAIK has a freedom of speech enshrined in law. As a result, CCP are allowed to moderate the forum as they see fit as per the terms of usage of this site.
If you don't like it, set up your own eve site so we dont have to listen to your rantings about being modded for ranting
|
Balthial Ashaere
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:57:00 -
[53]
Myko,
You're talking about an ingrained basic human right, there, not some convoluted law created by a politician. Everyone is entitled to their basic rights, no matter what the laws say, and most people know this and fight for it.
Just a reminder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Balthial Ashaere
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:57:00 -
[54]
Myko,
You're talking about an ingrained basic human right, there, not some convoluted law created by a politician. Everyone is entitled to their basic rights, no matter what the laws say, and most people know this and fight for it.
Just a reminder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Ethan Kel
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:57:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Marcus Davion
Edited by: Marcus Davion on 10/08/2004 22:43:41
Originally by: Ethan Kel
Ya and if they decide they personally dont like you they lock and delete what you post.
Dude you just never give up.....LOL
Exactly why do you think it's ok for you to insult someone on a personal level just because you a customer? If you bought my product and then spent most of your day calling me stupid because it doesn't conform to your desires I would censor you to.
An yea I read your original post and you didn't offer a single constructive thought. You rant should have been directed at the players of the game not CCP. Go back a few pages in the forums and you will find numerous locked threads just like yours calling for every single change CCP has made. So they did listen to some customer at some point, trouble is we don't all think the same way so we don't all want the same things.
Um that deleted post addressed many issues that I have seen at these forums for months.
Normally I just log out and ignore it.
Had you read it more carefully you would have seen that it did in fact address many issues deliberately in a very general manner.
|
Ethan Kel
|
Posted - 2004.08.10 22:57:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Marcus Davion
Edited by: Marcus Davion on 10/08/2004 22:43:41
Originally by: Ethan Kel
Ya and if they decide they personally dont like you they lock and delete what you post.
Dude you just never give up.....LOL
Exactly why do you think it's ok for you to insult someone on a personal level just because you a customer? If you bought my product and then spent most of your day calling me stupid because it doesn't conform to your desires I would censor you to.
An yea I read your original post and you didn't offer a single constructive thought. You rant should have been directed at the players of the game not CCP. Go back a few pages in the forums and you will find numerous locked threads just like yours calling for every single change CCP has made. So they did listen to some customer at some point, trouble is we don't all think the same way so we don't all want the same things.
Um that deleted post addressed many issues that I have seen at these forums for months.
Normally I just log out and ignore it.
Had you read it more carefully you would have seen that it did in fact address many issues deliberately in a very general manner.
|
QwaarJet
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 00:31:00 -
[57]
What is the point in a discussion forum when you cannot discuss freely without mod's way of thinking which is "If it's negative towards CCP, then we must lockzorrs!!!oneoneone111" People should be allowed to flame CCP as much as praise them, because they are letting their feelings known on how they feel about CCP.
"Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
QwaarJet
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 00:31:00 -
[58]
What is the point in a discussion forum when you cannot discuss freely without mod's way of thinking which is "If it's negative towards CCP, then we must lockzorrs!!!oneoneone111" People should be allowed to flame CCP as much as praise them, because they are letting their feelings known on how they feel about CCP.
"Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
Ris Dnalor
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 01:00:00 -
[59]
IBTL... b/c you know it will happen.
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
|
Ris Dnalor
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 01:00:00 -
[60]
IBTL... b/c you know it will happen.
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
|
The Chef
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 01:06:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
I suggest a more radical form of punishment. Bring back the Death Penalty, and have anyone who talks like that executed by being stoned with 1000 keyboards. Oh, and maybe an English Dictionary.
====================================
EVEkill Visit our homepage |
The Chef
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 01:06:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
Originally by: kieron
A post like, "OMG, you nerfed missiles!!1! I can't WTFPWN 15 Eidolons with my Ibis like I used to before the changes to missiles!!!1!11" will be deleted.
Can you also ban people from the game who talk like that in local?
I suggest a more radical form of punishment. Bring back the Death Penalty, and have anyone who talks like that executed by being stoned with 1000 keyboards. Oh, and maybe an English Dictionary.
====================================
EVEkill Visit our homepage |
Sally
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 01:31:00 -
[63]
CCP is digging them their own grave with that.
Talking about bans is prohibited by the forum rules Mr. PeaceMaker
So how is this trolling, and how is this getting locked, when a CCP employee is doing this suggestions too?
Hypocrites unite.
Funny how CCP deals with complaints about locked threads then. My thread about the 15 minutes timer / senries got locked for "being off topic". I complained about it directly to kieron, never got an answer, and I was asked by himself to do so instead of flaming Orestes on the forums.
Snipped Mr. PeaceMaker
Hypocrites unite.
Thank you for your zero-tolerance policy CCP. But after treating me like this, I decided to not extend my subscriptions on 3 accounts, I will simply play something different.
Instead on talking about the issues which bother the community and resolving them on case by case basis we have non-paid, non-professional forum moderators, we all know about their quality, but cannot discuss it, and we have GMs, where the quality of response differs from GM to GM, but we still can not discuss it. And the discussion about such things in my opinion would only improve the quality of actions taken by the mods and GMs. Give us a special forum for that or something please, where the people supervising the mods / GMs can read it!
Continue like this, wait until EQ2 and/or WoW is out and then you will remember my words.
I'm not being a whiner here, my first job I did was in 1995 and it was selling PC / console games (when a retail market still existed).
Sometimes I wonder how CCP got such a good game finished.
--
Stories: #1
--
|
Sally
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 01:31:00 -
[64]
CCP is digging them their own grave with that.
Talking about bans is prohibited by the forum rules Mr. PeaceMaker
So how is this trolling, and how is this getting locked, when a CCP employee is doing this suggestions too?
Hypocrites unite.
Funny how CCP deals with complaints about locked threads then. My thread about the 15 minutes timer / senries got locked for "being off topic". I complained about it directly to kieron, never got an answer, and I was asked by himself to do so instead of flaming Orestes on the forums.
Snipped Mr. PeaceMaker
Hypocrites unite.
Thank you for your zero-tolerance policy CCP. But after treating me like this, I decided to not extend my subscriptions on 3 accounts, I will simply play something different.
Instead on talking about the issues which bother the community and resolving them on case by case basis we have non-paid, non-professional forum moderators, we all know about their quality, but cannot discuss it, and we have GMs, where the quality of response differs from GM to GM, but we still can not discuss it. And the discussion about such things in my opinion would only improve the quality of actions taken by the mods and GMs. Give us a special forum for that or something please, where the people supervising the mods / GMs can read it!
Continue like this, wait until EQ2 and/or WoW is out and then you will remember my words.
I'm not being a whiner here, my first job I did was in 1995 and it was selling PC / console games (when a retail market still existed).
Sometimes I wonder how CCP got such a good game finished.
--
Stories: #1
--
|
Droidster
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 01:49:00 -
[65]
IBTL - Go Gallentes!
I heard a rumor that one of the new races in Shiva will be a sheep race. Bahhh!
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
Droidster
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 01:49:00 -
[66]
IBTL - Go Gallentes!
I heard a rumor that one of the new races in Shiva will be a sheep race. Bahhh!
_____________________________________________
I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK. |
LeeMajors
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 02:13:00 -
[67]
This is a PRIVATE board.
Censorship is something only a government can do.
CCP is the owner of this board and can do whatever it wants with the boards and it's contents.
|
LeeMajors
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 02:13:00 -
[68]
This is a PRIVATE board.
Censorship is something only a government can do.
CCP is the owner of this board and can do whatever it wants with the boards and it's contents.
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 11:11:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Vex Seraphim on 11/08/2004 11:29:34
i am SO getting banned for this, but here it goes:
EVE is a mature game, it has all the signs of a mature game,
a-la murder, thiefs, **** holoreels, gallente chicks and capitalism.
so can we Please have either this forum de-censoried, or perhaps
have a "mature forum" section for those who are like, over 18?
Plus, banning people for expressing their opinions is, well, bad.
Really bad.
Although i do have to agree with the mod/gm/dev communication censorship,
the importance of this was clearly laid out elsewhere on these forums.
Thanks.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 11:11:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Vex Seraphim on 11/08/2004 11:29:34
i am SO getting banned for this, but here it goes:
EVE is a mature game, it has all the signs of a mature game,
a-la murder, thiefs, **** holoreels, gallente chicks and capitalism.
so can we Please have either this forum de-censoried, or perhaps
have a "mature forum" section for those who are like, over 18?
Plus, banning people for expressing their opinions is, well, bad.
Really bad.
Although i do have to agree with the mod/gm/dev communication censorship,
the importance of this was clearly laid out elsewhere on these forums.
Thanks.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Inanna Sumer
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 11:31:00 -
[71]
Originally by: LeeMajors
This is a PRIVATE board.
Censorship is something only a government can do.
CCP is the owner of this board and can do whatever it wants with the boards and it's contents.
beat me to it, foiled.
|
Inanna Sumer
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 11:31:00 -
[72]
Originally by: LeeMajors
This is a PRIVATE board.
Censorship is something only a government can do.
CCP is the owner of this board and can do whatever it wants with the boards and it's contents.
beat me to it, foiled.
|
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:10:00 -
[73]
Please people, try and get a grip ok ?
Talking about isd infringing on your right of free speech is like suing your cable company for infringing on your right to education cause they dont give you Discovery channel for free. Utter nonsense.
As said, these forums are private. You gained access to them as part of your subscription which is governed by the rulebook ccp decides on, end of story. Deal with it already.
And now to get to actual isd behaviour.
I have most probably seen every single locked post in these forums, being the fanatical forum ***** I am.
I have only seen ONE locked topic I didn't get the reason for the lock for. And behold: it was unlocked after a few minutes when the ISD guy concerned realised that too.
If you feel the need to rant about patches nerfing your favourite ship, gun or playstyle go do it on eve-I where they'll let you. As soon as you are ready to actually help with some constructive critique feel free to post in the threads the mods point you to for that. If you want to discuss the effects you fear the changes will have on your fun, you can do so in threads as long a you keep it friendly and don't go off calling the dev's retarded or disconnected from reality.
There is no reason at all to scream about diabolical moderation or personal favouritism in here because there is none.
I hereby end my rant.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:10:00 -
[74]
Please people, try and get a grip ok ?
Talking about isd infringing on your right of free speech is like suing your cable company for infringing on your right to education cause they dont give you Discovery channel for free. Utter nonsense.
As said, these forums are private. You gained access to them as part of your subscription which is governed by the rulebook ccp decides on, end of story. Deal with it already.
And now to get to actual isd behaviour.
I have most probably seen every single locked post in these forums, being the fanatical forum ***** I am.
I have only seen ONE locked topic I didn't get the reason for the lock for. And behold: it was unlocked after a few minutes when the ISD guy concerned realised that too.
If you feel the need to rant about patches nerfing your favourite ship, gun or playstyle go do it on eve-I where they'll let you. As soon as you are ready to actually help with some constructive critique feel free to post in the threads the mods point you to for that. If you want to discuss the effects you fear the changes will have on your fun, you can do so in threads as long a you keep it friendly and don't go off calling the dev's retarded or disconnected from reality.
There is no reason at all to scream about diabolical moderation or personal favouritism in here because there is none.
I hereby end my rant.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Miso
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Please people, try and get a grip ok ?
Talking about isd infringing on your right of free speech is like suing your cable company for infringing on your right to education cause they dont give you Discovery channel for free. Utter nonsense.
As said, these forums are private. You gained access to them as part of your subscription which is governed by the rulebook ccp decides on, end of story. Deal with it already.
And now to get to actual isd behaviour.
I have most probably seen every single locked post in these forums, being the fanatical forum ***** I am.
I have only seen ONE locked topic I didn't get the reason for the lock for. And behold: it was unlocked after a few minutes when the ISD guy concerned realised that too.
If you feel the need to rant about patches nerfing your favourite ship, gun or playstyle go do it on eve-I where they'll let you. As soon as you are ready to actually help with some constructive critique feel free to post in the threads the mods point you to for that. If you want to discuss the effects you fear the changes will have on your fun, you can do so in threads as long a you keep it friendly and don't go off calling the dev's retarded or disconnected from reality.
There is no reason at all to scream about diabolical moderation or personal favouritism in here because there is none.
I hereby end my rant.
Good'shootin' Tex 
Rod, you are in danger of coming across as being sensible and adult. Thats the second post in succession I've read of yours that has displayed such properties. The whiners won't like it.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Miso
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:18:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Please people, try and get a grip ok ?
Talking about isd infringing on your right of free speech is like suing your cable company for infringing on your right to education cause they dont give you Discovery channel for free. Utter nonsense.
As said, these forums are private. You gained access to them as part of your subscription which is governed by the rulebook ccp decides on, end of story. Deal with it already.
And now to get to actual isd behaviour.
I have most probably seen every single locked post in these forums, being the fanatical forum ***** I am.
I have only seen ONE locked topic I didn't get the reason for the lock for. And behold: it was unlocked after a few minutes when the ISD guy concerned realised that too.
If you feel the need to rant about patches nerfing your favourite ship, gun or playstyle go do it on eve-I where they'll let you. As soon as you are ready to actually help with some constructive critique feel free to post in the threads the mods point you to for that. If you want to discuss the effects you fear the changes will have on your fun, you can do so in threads as long a you keep it friendly and don't go off calling the dev's retarded or disconnected from reality.
There is no reason at all to scream about diabolical moderation or personal favouritism in here because there is none.
I hereby end my rant.
Good'shootin' Tex
Rod, you are in danger of coming across as being sensible and adult. Thats the second post in succession I've read of yours that has displayed such properties. The whiners won't like it.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Eris Discordia
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:26:00 -
[77]
Just like Rod and many others I read these forums every day. I like the grown up and mature community. I like to ask a question or raise an interesting topic without receiving replies that belittle me for asking a question or call me names.
I have seen other game forums where it is impossible to have a thread without being called who knows what because you are new.
I became a mod to ensure these forums are pleasant for everyone to read, whether you just logged into eve for the first time or you have been around since beta.
All moderators dedicate their time and effort to make this forum open for everybody to post their comments. We do not enjoy deleting posts or warnings people, we may enjoy it to see a thread with well argumented ideas and comments about a patch.
There is a reason why we prefer well argumented posts above posts that only say the Dev's 'nerfed' missiles. When you supply numbers the DEV's can use your post in a better way and you will aid alot in the fixing process.
When threads are full of people screaming nerf NERF, the thread becomes a mess and is no longer a pleasure to read. Instead it will end up in flames.
If you want to help in fixing bugs and patches think about becoming a bug hunter. If you want to help new people STAR is the place to be. If you want to aid in keeping the forums readable then by all means apply for moderatorship.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Eris Discordia
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:26:00 -
[78]
Just like Rod and many others I read these forums every day. I like the grown up and mature community. I like to ask a question or raise an interesting topic without receiving replies that belittle me for asking a question or call me names.
I have seen other game forums where it is impossible to have a thread without being called who knows what because you are new.
I became a mod to ensure these forums are pleasant for everyone to read, whether you just logged into eve for the first time or you have been around since beta.
All moderators dedicate their time and effort to make this forum open for everybody to post their comments. We do not enjoy deleting posts or warnings people, we may enjoy it to see a thread with well argumented ideas and comments about a patch.
There is a reason why we prefer well argumented posts above posts that only say the Dev's 'nerfed' missiles. When you supply numbers the DEV's can use your post in a better way and you will aid alot in the fixing process.
When threads are full of people screaming nerf NERF, the thread becomes a mess and is no longer a pleasure to read. Instead it will end up in flames.
If you want to help in fixing bugs and patches think about becoming a bug hunter. If you want to help new people STAR is the place to be. If you want to aid in keeping the forums readable then by all means apply for moderatorship.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Miso
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:28:00 -
[79]
Go Eris.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Miso
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:28:00 -
[80]
Go Eris.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
|
Junkzinat0r
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:39:00 -
[81]
Is there a skill for ranting?
They build. I fight. You pray. |
Junkzinat0r
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:39:00 -
[82]
Is there a skill for ranting?
They build. I fight. You pray. |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:45:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Miso
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Please people, try and get a grip ok ?
...
I hereby end my rant.
Good'shootin' Tex
Rod, you are in danger of coming across as being sensible and adult. Thats the second post in succession I've read of yours that has displayed such properties. The whiners won't like it.
Nah, just mark it down as pre-emptive ass-saving.
I wouldn't care to consider what a forum ban would do to me, so I tend to stay friendly with the local powerplayers.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 12:45:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Miso
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Please people, try and get a grip ok ?
...
I hereby end my rant.
Good'shootin' Tex
Rod, you are in danger of coming across as being sensible and adult. Thats the second post in succession I've read of yours that has displayed such properties. The whiners won't like it.
Nah, just mark it down as pre-emptive ass-saving.
I wouldn't care to consider what a forum ban would do to me, so I tend to stay friendly with the local powerplayers.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Redundancy
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 13:10:00 -
[85]
Lets not forget, when there's 1001 thread on "missile nerfs", it's no wonder everyone misses important information about it actually being a bug. It's severely counterproductive to create loads of threads when one good one exists already where we can try and reply and inform everyone to the situation.
|
Redundancy
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 13:10:00 -
[86]
Lets not forget, when there's 1001 thread on "missile nerfs", it's no wonder everyone misses important information about it actually being a bug. It's severely counterproductive to create loads of threads when one good one exists already where we can try and reply and inform everyone to the situation.
|
Mean Jeebus
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 13:24:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Mean Jeebus on 11/08/2004 13:25:36
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
I'm sure someone else will beat me to this but -
We actually don't have a right to free speech on their forums. This isn't the US, this is CCP property. They own everything you type in these forums.
The moderators have every right to do whatever they want to whoever they want within the confines of the forum. (God I hope that is as far as their power reaches!)
They are dictators of what is theirs as you and I are dictators of ourselves.
I totally agree with their actions even though I myself am a US citizen and enjoy more rights than this in parts of my world. But this is their pajama party and you're only invited as long as you behave.
Heck, I even had a whole thread that was deleted just yesterday.
|
Mean Jeebus
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 13:24:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Mean Jeebus on 11/08/2004 13:25:36
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
I'm sure someone else will beat me to this but -
We actually don't have a right to free speech on their forums. This isn't the US, this is CCP property. They own everything you type in these forums.
The moderators have every right to do whatever they want to whoever they want within the confines of the forum. (God I hope that is as far as their power reaches!)
They are dictators of what is theirs as you and I are dictators of ourselves.
I totally agree with their actions even though I myself am a US citizen and enjoy more rights than this in parts of my world. But this is their pajama party and you're only invited as long as you behave.
Heck, I even had a whole thread that was deleted just yesterday.
|
Crowley
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 13:41:00 -
[89]
Gets on my wick when Americans get on their high horse about freedom of speech... Like they invented it.
Are you saying if CCP where an American company based in the states then you would have freedom of speech on the forums? No you wouldn't.
So stop it with the we're in the only place in the world where free speech is acceptable nonsense.
I agree with your "these forums belong to them and they can do with them as they please" statement tho.
YAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR 
|
Crowley
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 13:41:00 -
[90]
Gets on my wick when Americans get on their high horse about freedom of speech... Like they invented it.
Are you saying if CCP where an American company based in the states then you would have freedom of speech on the forums? No you wouldn't.
So stop it with the we're in the only place in the world where free speech is acceptable nonsense.
I agree with your "these forums belong to them and they can do with them as they please" statement tho.
YAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR
|
Malerna
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 13:52:00 -
[91]
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
aside from the fact that to use these forums you must actually have agreed to their terms and conditions, therefore it has nothing to do with freedom of speech and human rights, apart from that, oh so true.
Everyone here has to realise one thing. CCP has the be all and end all of it, without us they have no customers, without them we have even more infuriating boredom than we do with them... (there are no other mmorpg's quite like eve) so... err... live with it?
|
Malerna
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 13:52:00 -
[92]
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
aside from the fact that to use these forums you must actually have agreed to their terms and conditions, therefore it has nothing to do with freedom of speech and human rights, apart from that, oh so true.
Everyone here has to realise one thing. CCP has the be all and end all of it, without us they have no customers, without them we have even more infuriating boredom than we do with them... (there are no other mmorpg's quite like eve) so... err... live with it?
|
Ja'kar
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 14:01:00 -
[93]
"Well i think *Locked*
|
Ja'kar
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 14:01:00 -
[94]
"Well i think *Locked*
|
Attrael
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 14:15:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Attrael on 11/08/2004 14:17:41
Originally by: Crowley
Gets on my wick when Americans get on their high horse about freedom of speech... Like they invented it.
Actually, we did. Back when we tossed all the backwater Euro folks out of our country during the Revolutionary War, while they were busy trying to rule their colonies. The rest of the world merely followed our example after they realized that our way of life was much better than theirs ever was.
Euro folks have never been able to get past their bitter jealousy of our success though. But that's what makes them so gawsh darn entertaining.
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Attrael
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:15:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Attrael on 11/08/2004 14:17:41
Originally by: Crowley
Gets on my wick when Americans get on their high horse about freedom of speech... Like they invented it.
Actually, we did. Back when we tossed all the backwater Euro folks out of our country during the Revolutionary War, while they were busy trying to rule their colonies. The rest of the world merely followed our example after they realized that our way of life was much better than theirs ever was.
Euro folks have never been able to get past their bitter jealousy of our success though. But that's what makes them so gawsh darn entertaining.
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Ramsword
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:24:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Attrael
Edited by: Attrael on 11/08/2004 14:17:41
Originally by: Crowley
Gets on my wick when Americans get on their high horse about freedom of speech... Like they invented it.
Actually, we did. Back when we tossed all the backwater Euro folks out of our country during the Revolutionary War, while they were busy trying to rule their colonies. The rest of the world merely followed our example after they realized that our way of life was much better than theirs ever was.
Euro folks have never been able to get past their bitter jealousy of our success though. But that's what makes them so gawsh darn entertaining.
We (Sweden) were about 10 years ahead of you, we got it in our constitution in 1766. 
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Ramsword
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:24:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Attrael
Edited by: Attrael on 11/08/2004 14:17:41
Originally by: Crowley
Gets on my wick when Americans get on their high horse about freedom of speech... Like they invented it.
Actually, we did. Back when we tossed all the backwater Euro folks out of our country during the Revolutionary War, while they were busy trying to rule their colonies. The rest of the world merely followed our example after they realized that our way of life was much better than theirs ever was.
Euro folks have never been able to get past their bitter jealousy of our success though. But that's what makes them so gawsh darn entertaining.
We (Sweden) were about 10 years ahead of you, we got it in our constitution in 1766.
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stinky fecker
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:40:00 -
[99]
Edited by: stinky fecker on 11/08/2004 14:42:41
Originally by: Attrael
Edited by: Attrael on 11/08/2004 14:17:41
Originally by: Crowley
Gets on my wick when Americans get on their high horse about freedom of speech... Like they invented it.
Actually, we did. Back when we tossed all the backwater Euro folks out of our country during the Revolutionary War, while they were busy trying to rule their colonies. The rest of the world merely followed our example after they realized that our way of life was much better than theirs ever was.
go and read some history, your ignorance is quite staggering :(
edit: i hope the Mods lock this thread, or i will be forced to email a complaint about it |
stinky fecker
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Posted - 2004.08.11 14:40:00 -
[100]
Edited by: stinky fecker on 11/08/2004 14:42:41
Originally by: Attrael
Edited by: Attrael on 11/08/2004 14:17:41
Originally by: Crowley
Gets on my wick when Americans get on their high horse about freedom of speech... Like they invented it.
Actually, we did. Back when we tossed all the backwater Euro folks out of our country during the Revolutionary War, while they were busy trying to rule their colonies. The rest of the world merely followed our example after they realized that our way of life was much better than theirs ever was.
go and read some history, your ignorance is quite staggering :(
edit: i hope the Mods lock this thread, or i will be forced to email a complaint about it |
DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.08.11 15:00:00 -
[101]
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
OMGZ!!
For one, as has already been stated, you agreed to terms and conditions when you signed up to the game and the forums.
Most importantly, can you americans please get it into your heads that your laws and constitution are not enforceable worldwide!!!
These forums are run by an icelandic company, and hosted either in iceland or in the UK with the TQ server. The US has NO juristiction here.
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.08.11 15:00:00 -
[102]
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
OMGZ!!
For one, as has already been stated, you agreed to terms and conditions when you signed up to the game and the forums.
Most importantly, can you americans please get it into your heads that your laws and constitution are not enforceable worldwide!!!
These forums are run by an icelandic company, and hosted either in iceland or in the UK with the TQ server. The US has NO juristiction here.
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meowcat
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Posted - 2004.08.11 15:47:00 -
[103]
Edited by: meowcat on 11/08/2004 16:05:13
Originally by: DarkStar251
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
OMGZ!!
For one, as has already been stated, you agreed to terms and conditions when you signed up to the game and the forums.
Most importantly, can you americans please get it into your heads that your laws and constitution are not enforceable worldwide!!!
These forums are run by an icelandic company, and hosted either in iceland or in the UK with the TQ server. The US has NO juristiction here.
More importantly, they are rarely enforced in the US itself, which has much stricter censorship of TV and news media that in the UK or Europe.
Crucially though, you freedon of speech / freedom of expression is not being impeded by forum moderation - nobody is preventing you from standing on your front lawn and yelling abuse at CCP.
Claiming that you have the "right" to publish your thoughts on CCP's website, is like me claiming that "The Times" is infringing my rights by not allowing me to publish the headline "Tony Blair is a lying Cnut and George bush blows goats" in tomorrows front page.
If you dont like CCP's mods, make your own website.
edit: oh, and to the ignorant American earlier in the thread:
(1) it is people like you who give the US a bad name (which in all honesty it doesn't deserve)
(2) my house is older than your country
(3) you've obviously never heard of the Magna Carta
(4) funny that you never thank the French - without them you would have not have achieved independence (at least not then) |
meowcat
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 15:47:00 -
[104]
Edited by: meowcat on 11/08/2004 16:05:13
Originally by: DarkStar251
Originally by: fairimear
Edited by: fairimear on 10/08/2004 22:05:05
im sure some where in law the heavy handed moderation of forums would be considered a breach of our right to freespeach.
but until some fat kid makes a court case blaming moderators for his condition we will have to put up with the dictators.
OMGZ!!
For one, as has already been stated, you agreed to terms and conditions when you signed up to the game and the forums.
Most importantly, can you americans please get it into your heads that your laws and constitution are not enforceable worldwide!!!
These forums are run by an icelandic company, and hosted either in iceland or in the UK with the TQ server. The US has NO juristiction here.
More importantly, they are rarely enforced in the US itself, which has much stricter censorship of TV and news media that in the UK or Europe.
Crucially though, you freedon of speech / freedom of expression is not being impeded by forum moderation - nobody is preventing you from standing on your front lawn and yelling abuse at CCP.
Claiming that you have the "right" to publish your thoughts on CCP's website, is like me claiming that "The Times" is infringing my rights by not allowing me to publish the headline "Tony Blair is a lying Cnut and George bush blows goats" in tomorrows front page.
If you dont like CCP's mods, make your own website.
edit: oh, and to the ignorant American earlier in the thread:
(1) it is people like you who give the US a bad name (which in all honesty it doesn't deserve)
(2) my house is older than your country
(3) you've obviously never heard of the Magna Carta
(4) funny that you never thank the French - without them you would have not have achieved independence (at least not then) |
lady raven
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 15:56:00 -
[105]
Edited by: lady raven on 11/08/2004 15:59:10
I always said I would never get involved in these sort of threads but this one has tempted me far too much.
Quote:
Actually, we did. Back when we tossed all the backwater Euro folks out of our country during the Revolutionary War, while they were busy trying to rule their colonies. The rest of the world merely followed our example after they realized that our way of life was much better than theirs ever was. Cool
Euro folks have never been able to get past their bitter jealousy of our success though. But that's what makes them so gawsh darn entertaining. Laughing
Some links for you on freedom of speech.
USA freedom of speech
Press stuff
edit: pwnd by bbcode
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lady raven
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Posted - 2004.08.11 15:56:00 -
[106]
Edited by: lady raven on 11/08/2004 15:59:10
I always said I would never get involved in these sort of threads but this one has tempted me far too much.
Quote:
Actually, we did. Back when we tossed all the backwater Euro folks out of our country during the Revolutionary War, while they were busy trying to rule their colonies. The rest of the world merely followed our example after they realized that our way of life was much better than theirs ever was. Cool
Euro folks have never been able to get past their bitter jealousy of our success though. But that's what makes them so gawsh darn entertaining. Laughing
Some links for you on freedom of speech.
USA freedom of speech
Press stuff
edit: pwnd by bbcode
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Kelly O'Connor
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:00:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Kelly O'Connor on 11/08/2004 16:07:30
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=reply&threadID=100832
If you are bored, replace the number at the end of that link with a random one, and start working up, or down.
I did it for a few hundred around http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=reply&threadID=1337
Over 1 in 2 threads are deleted/moved to private forum.
Thats well over 50% of THREADS that I looked at deleted, nevermind posts being edited.
(Note: I'm not saying 50% of threads get deleted, it appears to be 30% if you look at the latest thread, and then total thread statistics, and with the sheer amount of locked threads, probably approaching 40%)
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Kelly O'Connor
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:00:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Kelly O'Connor on 11/08/2004 16:07:30
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=reply&threadID=100832
If you are bored, replace the number at the end of that link with a random one, and start working up, or down.
I did it for a few hundred around http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=reply&threadID=1337
Over 1 in 2 threads are deleted/moved to private forum.
Thats well over 50% of THREADS that I looked at deleted, nevermind posts being edited.
(Note: I'm not saying 50% of threads get deleted, it appears to be 30% if you look at the latest thread, and then total thread statistics, and with the sheer amount of locked threads, probably approaching 40%)
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kieron
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:39:00 -
[109]
This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn. However, let's leave the politics out of it. Nobody's got the market cornered when it comes to freedom of speech. And please, let's not turn this into a "Let's bash the <Yank/Euro/Ethnic Group>" thread. Then I just might have to lock it.
This concludes your friendly CCP Public Service Announcement. You can now return to the ongoing debate. 
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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kieron
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Posted - 2004.08.11 16:39:00 -
[110]
This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn. However, let's leave the politics out of it. Nobody's got the market cornered when it comes to freedom of speech. And please, let's not turn this into a "Let's bash the <Yank/Euro/Ethnic Group>" thread. Then I just might have to lock it.
This concludes your friendly CCP Public Service Announcement. You can now return to the ongoing debate.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
|
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 16:47:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Kelly O'Connor
Edited by: Kelly O'Connor on 11/08/2004 16:07:30
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=reply&threadID=100832
If you are bored, replace the number at the end of that link with a random one, and start working up, or down.
I did it for a few hundred around http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=reply&threadID=1337
Over 1 in 2 threads are deleted/moved to private forum.
Thats well over 50% of THREADS that I looked at deleted, nevermind posts being edited.
(Note: I'm not saying 50% of threads get deleted, it appears to be 30% if you look at the latest thread, and then total thread statistics, and with the sheer amount of locked threads, probably approaching 40%)
As I said, I have probably seen every single locked thread down here, and only ONE got locked without reason (which was corrected swiftly) in my opinion.
Now I'm not the baddest boy by far on these forums, but I do like to push a button on people now and then like all of us do. If only people could do that with a little wit and self aimed humour instead of turning things into personal attacks and obvious taunts that statistic (which I dont believe for a second to be accurate) would end up much showing alot less locked threads.
We are talking wether moderation is too strict. Any amount of locked threads is irrelevant there. It is the nature of the locked thread that makes the modding overdone or not.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 16:47:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Kelly O'Connor
Edited by: Kelly O'Connor on 11/08/2004 16:07:30
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=reply&threadID=100832
If you are bored, replace the number at the end of that link with a random one, and start working up, or down.
I did it for a few hundred around http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=reply&threadID=1337
Over 1 in 2 threads are deleted/moved to private forum.
Thats well over 50% of THREADS that I looked at deleted, nevermind posts being edited.
(Note: I'm not saying 50% of threads get deleted, it appears to be 30% if you look at the latest thread, and then total thread statistics, and with the sheer amount of locked threads, probably approaching 40%)
As I said, I have probably seen every single locked thread down here, and only ONE got locked without reason (which was corrected swiftly) in my opinion.
Now I'm not the baddest boy by far on these forums, but I do like to push a button on people now and then like all of us do. If only people could do that with a little wit and self aimed humour instead of turning things into personal attacks and obvious taunts that statistic (which I dont believe for a second to be accurate) would end up much showing alot less locked threads.
We are talking wether moderation is too strict. Any amount of locked threads is irrelevant there. It is the nature of the locked thread that makes the modding overdone or not.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Kaladryn
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 18:30:00 -
[113]
this thread should be deleted
Kaladryn |
Kaladryn
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 18:30:00 -
[114]
this thread should be deleted
Kaladryn |
Orestes
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 18:37:00 -
[115]
Again, keep politics out of this thread.
Thanks.
Join the IC! |
Orestes
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 18:37:00 -
[116]
Again, keep politics out of this thread.
Thanks.
Join the IC! |
RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 22:40:00 -
[117]
IBTL. The inevitable, inevitable lock.
I think the problem here is that people are assuming a level of professionalism that simply doesnt exist. As soon as you lower your expectations, you'll have far fewer problems dealing with the moderators.
Also helps when a GM gives something back to someone who had the same bug as you, after sending you a FO note.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.08.11 22:40:00 -
[118]
IBTL. The inevitable, inevitable lock.
I think the problem here is that people are assuming a level of professionalism that simply doesnt exist. As soon as you lower your expectations, you'll have far fewer problems dealing with the moderators.
Also helps when a GM gives something back to someone who had the same bug as you, after sending you a FO note.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Kelly O'Connor
|
Posted - 2004.08.12 08:16:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
As I said, I have probably seen every single locked thread down here, and only ONE got locked without reason (which was corrected swiftly) in my opinion.
Now I'm not the baddest boy by far on these forums, but I do like to push a button on people now and then like all of us do. If only people could do that with a little wit and self aimed humour instead of turning things into personal attacks and obvious taunts that statistic (which I dont believe for a second to be accurate) would end up much showing alot less locked threads.
We are talking wether moderation is too strict. Any amount of locked threads is irrelevant there. It is the nature of the locked thread that makes the modding overdone or not.
Rod, as much as 3 times as many threads get deleted as gets locked.
I find it hard to believe you read almost all of these, unless you spend 24/7 glued to the forums.
Fair enough if you spend 2 or 3 hours a day reading them, but that is still far far away from being enough time to read anywhere near all the threads.
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Kelly O'Connor
|
Posted - 2004.08.12 08:16:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
As I said, I have probably seen every single locked thread down here, and only ONE got locked without reason (which was corrected swiftly) in my opinion.
Now I'm not the baddest boy by far on these forums, but I do like to push a button on people now and then like all of us do. If only people could do that with a little wit and self aimed humour instead of turning things into personal attacks and obvious taunts that statistic (which I dont believe for a second to be accurate) would end up much showing alot less locked threads.
We are talking wether moderation is too strict. Any amount of locked threads is irrelevant there. It is the nature of the locked thread that makes the modding overdone or not.
Rod, as much as 3 times as many threads get deleted as gets locked.
I find it hard to believe you read almost all of these, unless you spend 24/7 glued to the forums.
Fair enough if you spend 2 or 3 hours a day reading them, but that is still far far away from being enough time to read anywhere near all the threads.
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Lizardo
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 12:23:00 -
[121]
LOL
so now it is a free speech issue?
I do not think I ever mentioned it in my original post. What I was upset about was an apparent Catch-22 ging on where one mod was locking threads on a particular topic and referring the posters to another topic wherein it had been stated that posts about missile nerfs were unwelcome and would be deleted.
Now, the PURPOSE of forums like these is always and inevitably to provide feedback to CCP (or whatever game company) about what is going on in the game; to allow the developers to gauge the mood of the community about changes, about gameplay in general.
Thus,deleting and locking of too many threads by moderators is in fact a disservice to CCP, because it prevents an exposition of these difficulties, it stifles the discussion of issues and tends to skew the development team's ideas about what is important to the community, based on the "filter" that whatever moderator uses. For example, a few posts back, Eris stated she liked to see everyone getting along and playing nice nice (paraphrase), Sure, I can see that; makes her job a bit easier right off the bat.
BUT if there is an issue that has a lot of folks howling, it does no good to CCP to squash discussion. If there is an issue that has folks sharply divided, it does CCP little good to stifle the debate.
These actions reduce sharply the usefulness of the forums as a sounding board for how people are enjoying the game. this is especially important in this particular game since players provide more of the content themselves than most other MMORPG's......
This has nothing whatever to do with freddom of speech (technically it would be freedom of the press in any case) and also it has been decided legally a long time ago here that freedom of the press resides in the publisher, not the author....at least on this side of the pond. That however is beside the point.
I was simply addressing the idea that moderator interference is skewing feedback. I think it is a valid point, and such interference defeats the actual utility of these forums.
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Lizardo
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 12:23:00 -
[122]
LOL
so now it is a free speech issue?
I do not think I ever mentioned it in my original post. What I was upset about was an apparent Catch-22 ging on where one mod was locking threads on a particular topic and referring the posters to another topic wherein it had been stated that posts about missile nerfs were unwelcome and would be deleted.
Now, the PURPOSE of forums like these is always and inevitably to provide feedback to CCP (or whatever game company) about what is going on in the game; to allow the developers to gauge the mood of the community about changes, about gameplay in general.
Thus,deleting and locking of too many threads by moderators is in fact a disservice to CCP, because it prevents an exposition of these difficulties, it stifles the discussion of issues and tends to skew the development team's ideas about what is important to the community, based on the "filter" that whatever moderator uses. For example, a few posts back, Eris stated she liked to see everyone getting along and playing nice nice (paraphrase), Sure, I can see that; makes her job a bit easier right off the bat.
BUT if there is an issue that has a lot of folks howling, it does no good to CCP to squash discussion. If there is an issue that has folks sharply divided, it does CCP little good to stifle the debate.
These actions reduce sharply the usefulness of the forums as a sounding board for how people are enjoying the game. this is especially important in this particular game since players provide more of the content themselves than most other MMORPG's......
This has nothing whatever to do with freddom of speech (technically it would be freedom of the press in any case) and also it has been decided legally a long time ago here that freedom of the press resides in the publisher, not the author....at least on this side of the pond. That however is beside the point.
I was simply addressing the idea that moderator interference is skewing feedback. I think it is a valid point, and such interference defeats the actual utility of these forums.
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Orestes
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 12:47:00 -
[123]
The simple fact is, though, that rants and raves harm discussion more then moderating these posts or threads. There is nothing helpful about 15 different threads across 5 different forums, all written in an insulting, unconstructive manner.
One thread on the subject is more then enough. That way, feedback to that particular issue can concentrate in that thread, so all involved have fast access to a solution/answer or something similar. It is not helpful at all if people need to look at 10 rant threads before they get the answer they were looking for.
If there is an issue where a lot of folks are howling, we tell CCP and do our job; making sure the forums are clean and enjoyable.
Join the IC! |
Orestes
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 12:47:00 -
[124]
The simple fact is, though, that rants and raves harm discussion more then moderating these posts or threads. There is nothing helpful about 15 different threads across 5 different forums, all written in an insulting, unconstructive manner.
One thread on the subject is more then enough. That way, feedback to that particular issue can concentrate in that thread, so all involved have fast access to a solution/answer or something similar. It is not helpful at all if people need to look at 10 rant threads before they get the answer they were looking for.
If there is an issue where a lot of folks are howling, we tell CCP and do our job; making sure the forums are clean and enjoyable.
Join the IC! |
Paws Scout
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 21:48:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Orestes
The simple fact is, though, that rants and raves harm discussion more then moderating these posts or threads. There is nothing helpful about 15 different threads across 5 different forums, all written in an insulting, unconstructive manner.
One thread on the subject is more then enough. That way, feedback to that particular issue can concentrate in that thread, so all involved have fast access to a solution/answer or something similar. It is not helpful at all if people need to look at 10 rant threads before they get the answer they were looking for.
If there is an issue where a lot of folks are howling, we tell CCP and do our job; making sure the forums are clean and enjoyable.
i honestly cant belive your patience on this isue
i to was here on patch day and 40% of the threads was you suck CCP another 40% was why was this thread locked all you guys do is censor and oh yeah you suck the last 20% was constructive critisimn and regular questions guess wich ones was locked 
i have seen threads locked there should not have been (including some of my own) those are useally unlocked again either after emailing you guys or after you guys edit part of the thread
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Paws Scout
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 21:48:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Orestes
The simple fact is, though, that rants and raves harm discussion more then moderating these posts or threads. There is nothing helpful about 15 different threads across 5 different forums, all written in an insulting, unconstructive manner.
One thread on the subject is more then enough. That way, feedback to that particular issue can concentrate in that thread, so all involved have fast access to a solution/answer or something similar. It is not helpful at all if people need to look at 10 rant threads before they get the answer they were looking for.
If there is an issue where a lot of folks are howling, we tell CCP and do our job; making sure the forums are clean and enjoyable.
i honestly cant belive your patience on this isue
i to was here on patch day and 40% of the threads was you suck CCP another 40% was why was this thread locked all you guys do is censor and oh yeah you suck the last 20% was constructive critisimn and regular questions guess wich ones was locked
i have seen threads locked there should not have been (including some of my own) those are useally unlocked again either after emailing you guys or after you guys edit part of the thread
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
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