EVE Search - War and High sec griefers

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

War and High sec griefers

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Bob Meoof	Posted - 2009.03.02 16:25:00 - [1] Over the years I`ve seen tons of friends and people leave Eve for other games, because of 1 reason.......high sec griefers. Corps or alliances, usually with 3-5 year old players. that go around war deccing other corps and alliances that have no chance of fighting back. I`ve heard all the arguments, and none of them change the fact that CCP is losing customers all the time when there is a simple solution. Make the wars by mutual agreement. After a war dec has been placed, during the 24 hour period, the corp/alliance that has been war deced must make it mutual, or it is null. This would give the hard core pvp`ers all the war they wanted, and allow the non, pvp`ers the chance to play the game the way they wanted to. After all, miners pay just as much as pvp`ers to play, and this way the pvp`ers still can war dec. The only people that would have a problem with this, are the people that can`t pvp with others of the same skill point levels. And before the whining starts, I have 4 accounts, 1 miner, and 3 pvp, I`m just tired of seeing people I make friends with in Eve leave to play something else.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:22:00 - [2] EVE sucks at being WoW. If the EVE devs were to try to turn EVE into WoW in space, then they would fail miserably, as EVE's core design doesn't do the whole "Cooperative, PVP is only consensual" thing very well. The best possible way for CCP to make EVE grow is to simply take EVE and make it better, not try to make it into a ****ty clone of some other game. Given that EVE has been growing since its creation, it's a safe bet to say that Eve is not in danger of dying.
Insa Rexion Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:33:00 - [3] War must be by mutual consent ? Have you any idea how ridiculous that sounds, war, by definition means that dialogue has broken down to a level where one side wishes to force their opinion on the other....consent has nothing t do with it. IMHO the wardec mechanic is fine the way it is, it is just the over abundant resources in hisec that mean it rarely gets used for a "genuine" reason, that being corps fighting each other over access to resources etc. Hisec would be a much less polarised place (ie griefers on one side and bears on the other) if CCP would just diminish resources to a point where ppl had to fight over them. well mannered ah*
Haakelen Gallente Angels. Acid.	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Haakelen on 02/03/2009 19:37:30 Originally by: Kahega Amielden The best possible way for CCP to make EVE grow is to simply take EVE and make it better, not try to make it into a ****ty clone of some other game. This. Eve grew for 5 years, being a harsh place. It is currently simpler and carebear-ier than it ever has been. If it still isn't weak and boring enough for you now, then you might want to try a single-player game.
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.03.02 19:42:00 - [5] Bad idea, bad post. Here's ten reasons why: Base Rate Fallacy Ignoracio Elenchi Argument From Repetition **Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc Causal Oversimplification False Attribution Argumentum Ad Populum Appeal To Emotion Appeal To Consequences Overwhelming Exception Your suggestion would detract from the game. Think about Kenzoku; if they get driven back to Empire space, do you think that Goonswarm and the NC will be happy to let them be? How would your proposal affect their ability to continue to drive Kenzoku into the ground? - Originally by:** The Cuckoo Good luck in defending idiotic and greedy noobs, as far as I'm concerned, you are their champion.
Caldari 5 Amarr The Element Syndicate Black Mesa Project	Posted - 2009.03.02 22:11:00 - [6] I don't think that this implementation will work, as per above comments, However I do believe that the current WarDec system needs to be changed so that it discourages Griefers, but is still an option for Legit Wars. So it is more a question of how to achieve this.
Haakelen Gallente Angels. Acid.	Posted - 2009.03.02 22:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Caldari 5 I don't think that this implementation will work, as per above comments, However I do believe that the current WarDec system needs to be changed so that it discourages Griefers, but is still an option for Legit Wars. So it is more a question of how to achieve this. There is absolutely no way to determine what is a 'legitimate' war (Which does not have to follow your viewpoint) or a 'greifing' war (which doesn't exist in eve). Hard-coded game mechanical limitations drain any flavor and originality out of it and makes it 100% pointless. Like previously stated in this thread, CCP needs to seriously start to limit highsec resources, so people who usually GET wardecced realize why wardecs are useful, and must be dynamic. It's already possible to be completely safe in an NPC corp in empire, it shouldn't be completely safe in a player corp.
Caldari 5 Amarr The Element Syndicate Black Mesa Project	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:15:00 - [8] So a starting up merc cerp randomly WarDecing the first 5 player corps that he sees in local in the local trade hub is a valid reason for a War? Admittedly this war was kinda funny for us, cause all he did was hug the station in that same system shooting the players that were stupid enough to go close by that station.
Haakelen Gallente Angels. Acid.	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:16:00 - [9] Originally by: Caldari 5 So a starting up merc cerp randomly WarDecing the first 5 player corps that he sees in local in the local trade hub is a valid reason for a War? Admittedly this war was kinda funny for us, cause all he did was hug the station in that same system shooting the players that were stupid enough to go close by that station. How do you suppose to differentiate that from a Merc corp being hired by someone against a corp because of smacktalking or market manipulation?
Caldari 5 Amarr The Element Syndicate Black Mesa Project	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Haakelen How do you suppose to differentiate that from a Merc corp being hired by someone against a corp because of smacktalking or market manipulation? Maybe fixing the WarDec system will need to include a new contract type, something Like a Security contract, where you make the contract where there is a option for Ships Destroyed, and/or pods destroyed, or the option for a time period.

Haakelen Gallente Angels. Acid.	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:36:00 - [11] Which has absolutely no bearing on reality. Going by that wars could actually be longer for the targets if they dock up. The current system has been nerfed enough and has enough sleights as it is.
Caldari 5 Amarr The Element Syndicate Black Mesa Project	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:26:00 - [12] Pehaps the new WarDec will require a recent Killmail either way(ie someone from either deccing corp or deced corp) to start the wardec, like they are meant to be at each others throats anyways, surely requiring a killmail prior to a FULL WAR isn't that much of an ask. So in summary. To start a war you would either need the killmail from combat, or a contract from someone with the killmail to start a war.
Irn Bruce	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:31:00 - [13] Eve is better off without the kind of players who run away to WoW over a wardec, and those players are better off playing WoW anyway. If you don't like non consensual PvP, then Eve isn't the game for you. and trying to change it in that direction is pointless. People don't ask Id to change Doom because they don't like all the violence, they just play a different game. Why should Eve (or any MMO) be any different? I used to play WoW, but got bored of the fact there was nothing else to do but grind. Eve is not like that, so I loved it. If the change you suggest was implemented, just as many people would leave out of boredom as currently leave because it's too hard.
Haakelen Gallente Angels. Acid.	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:35:00 - [14] Which completely immunizes smacktalkers and people who compete for resources/market things. It creates yet another boring, stupid, static game mechanic (like the completely meaningless FW point systems), and makes the game even more dull and sterile.
Eddie Vermin Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:01:00 - [15] No offense but "Can we go to war so that I can extort you"....... "No, check back with me later" This is not the answer. If CCP controls social interaction then they will be pointed at as affecting player decisions in the game that actually make up everything in Eve just about. I agree completely that there is a problem. But the question or a good answer is what to do to fix it. Griefers or just let's call them what they are..... extortionist with bigger guns, will never be happy to a fix to an exploit that they use to make isk. If you have noticed you need to be a large Alliance or be in the large population that will complain to CCP until they fix something. An such as lawful want to be left alone to play the game is not a class that will get their attention. Face it there are more of them than there are of you. Personally I would try to get as many players that have an issue with this and one that they knowe as well as names of those that have quit that you know of and that they know of. Add up the monthly cost and yearly losses that CCP would have. And really I would not start a post like that here you'll just get bashed by every troll that there is. Anyways the numbers probably won't be enough so find merc friends or do like everyone else does, get your corp in a large alliance so at least you have some kinda idea who's war target your are
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:04:00 - [16] Quote: Pehaps the new WarDec will require a recent Killmail either way(ie someone from either deccing corp or deced corp) to start the wardec, like they are meant to be at each others throats anyways, surely requiring a killmail prior to a FULL WAR isn't that much of an ask. So in summary. To start a war you would either need the killmail from combat, or a contract from someone with the killmail to start a war. Death is not the only reason to go to war. Resources, territory and pride are equally "good" reasons for war, and should not be eliminated as your proposal would do. Go away. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:06:00 - [17] What's needed is a more cohesive mercenary mechanic (perhaps some form of contractual system?) to enable mercenaries to "adopt" a war decleration and for the duration of the combat appear as members of the target corporation. - Originally by: The Cuckoo Good luck in defending idiotic and greedy noobs, as far as I'm concerned, you are their champion.
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.03.03 02:00:00 - [18] No way to this proposal. Eve has grown in subscriber count since inception - it's a business and game model that is working. Cries of "people are quitting" are irrelevant. People are joining and staying at a greater rate then people are leaving. Eve is a niche game. The players who join and stay are the players who enjoy the open-sandbox environment and the lack of limitations imposed on player actions. The proper course of action in Eve is to learn how to operate within the sandbox. Don't ask the developers to change the rules to make it easier. Corps and pilots who thrive in Eve are those who learn to adapt. There are ways to defeat opponents who war dec weaker corps. Your opponents exist in the same space you do. Out think, out manouver, or out-fight them. Take away the opponents victory condition and they lose. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.03.03 05:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos Bad idea, bad post. Here's ten reasons why: Base Rate Fallacy Ignoracio Elenchi Argument From Repetition ****Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc Causal Oversimplification False Attribution Argumentum Ad Populum Appeal To Emotion Appeal To Consequences Overwhelming Exception Your suggestion would detract from the game. Think about Kenzoku; if they get driven back to Empire space, do you think that Goonswarm and the NC will be happy to let them be? How would your proposal affect their ability to continue to drive Kenzoku into the ground? Today you are my hero. -Galan
R4d1o4ct1v3 Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.03 06:32:00 - [20] There is already a mechanism in place to protect industrial corporations from griefers. They are called mercenary corps. If you don't want to protect yourself, hire somebody to do it for you. The rules in EVE have always been fairly simple, and that is the best part about it. You can do whatever you want, but so can everybody else. If you want things to work the way you want them to, you have to be able to keep them that way. Meaning that if you want to be able to mine non-stop without getting killed, you need to be able to keep others from killing you. How you do that is up to you, but do not expect CCP to create a magical protective bubble around you. If you fail to do that, then... well... that's to bad. You'll just have to find a different strategy. If people want a 100% safe environment where they can grind away without getting hurt, EVE is not for them. I'm sorry if that means your miner friends keep bailing on you, but it's not CCP's fault they can't make it in this game.

bettybettybettybetty	Posted - 2009.03.03 07:58:00 - [21] War in real life is stupid and pointless so yes, it's fine.
Rhinanna Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.03 14:05:00 - [22] Why would concord achknowledge the war? Perhaps if someone gets wardecced they should be able to appeal to concord (the CMs) to repeal it so that both sides no-longer get immunity to concord when attacking each other. High-sec should be relativly safe, I do agree that reducing the amount of materials available in high-sec would be a good idea so that mining corps are more likely to venture out into low-sec/null-sec. Or make a special 'mining corp' option. They can't be war-decced but no-one in the corp is allowed to own military vessels (shuttles, industrials e.t.c. only) If they join an allience that gets war-decced then they are in the war the same as everyone else.
Bob Meoof	Posted - 2009.03.05 14:46:00 - [23] I am happy to see a lot of constructive ideas, and more than a little surprised to see adult contradictions to my idea.As opposed to the normal "go play WOW" responses from the less mature players. Many have brought up good reasons my idea would not be the best solution, but please keep in mind that EVE online is the best online "space " game there is as far as graphics, and "things to do" are concerned. Many players are drawn to the game at first for these reasons, and there are no real alternatives. Basically there are many people that want to play a space game without the PVP. If a company could accommodate these people, without losing, or detracting from the game for pvp`ers....why wouldn`t you do it? So all I`m asking for here are ideas that would satisfy both. Surely that is not impossible, and what company can afford to lose customers for any reason?
Fox Ogmo Net 7 The Last Brigade	Posted - 2009.03.05 14:49:00 - [24] Eve is a game of patience, the players that quit weren't patient enough to wait until they could do it themselves... :P
Bob Meoof	Posted - 2009.03.05 14:56:00 - [25] Please forgive the add. I also wanted to point out that I have played the game since before there was such a thing as War Dec`s, as the older players may remember. when you wanted to pvp then, you went into low/null sec. I really can`t remember why CCP created war dec to begin with, but think it may have had something to do with people "raiding" low sec corps, then fleeing to high sec for immunity. Whatever the reason, I still had as much, or more fun with Eve without the War dec system, also people who played the game just for the graphic, solitude or friendship, could also have their game too. If anyone knows why the War dec system was created, please remind me, just out of curiosity.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.05 15:13:00 - [26] Quote: If anyone knows why the War dec system was created, please remind me, just out of curiosity. To reinforce the principle that first and foremost, Eve is intended to be a PVP game. Also to provide the ability to fight for resorces in high sec space (starbases) and to provide the ability to disrupt logistics operations that without wardecs could operate with impunity. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Agent Unknown Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.05 15:28:00 - [27] I don't agree with changing the mechanic, but I do agree with increasing the cost of wardeccing another corporation. My corp is currently in a grief war, and to tell the truth it's quite annoying, although we can put up with them, people (mostly newbie miners) have left because of it. I mean, I'm not complaining or anything, but it's just stupid that PvP corps have to wardec an industry-based corp just for "fun" when there's hundreds of corps with their similar skill. ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Hariya	Posted - 2009.03.05 15:56:00 - [28] Being nonconsentual is the very core of the concept of war. Take that away, and you take all that interests in war away.
Eisbrecker Minmatar DevilDog Brigade	Posted - 2009.03.05 20:42:00 - [29] If EVE is first and foremost a PVP game they should have put that on the box...er website. Sure, I'll be the first to admit the majority of the long term players in EVE are pirate griefers that get a kick out of being a galactic bully, but whatever...there's something for everyone out there, right? or at least that's what everyone says about EVE (that was on the box I think). I do agree with the OP, if you simply want to grow a corp through diplomatic and economic means, this should be a viable option. I don't think there is shame in that, some people don't think constantly watching your back, obsessing over dps numbers, and camping gates is very fun. The security status system is already in place, I think they should use that to allow for a biased system of war declaration. I thought that was the point of Sec status in the first place. Let all the dogs duke it out in the pits of low-sec killing each other while those wanting a more constructive game build their empires from within high-sec. The thing with PVP is it's condusive to people seeking out victims that are easy prey. They don't want a fair fight, that is why they "pwn noobs" not "vets" because they're not sure they can win those battles. This is also why they don't like to just hang out with their own kind in low-sec. The current war dec system allows them to operate as the do in low-sec honing their combat skills while you wither away mining in high-sec. When their war machine is ready, they war dec you and have a great time doing it because they know you cannot defend yourself, and they no longer have to worry about others hunting them as well. Whats worse you might get mad and pay a merc corp to fight for you as someone suggested above, which ends up costing you even more money than simply loosing the ships and they "got you" that much worse. CCP caters to the PVP'er that is for sure. Just look at the rediculous "council" they dug up to represent us. I'm pretty sure one of them thinks he is satan. Here's what you do next time a huge corp war decs your mining corp, cancel your subscription and log off. If you stay and deal with it, chances are you'll quit anyways and your grief will further fuel the fire. If PVP is what they want eventually all the "care bears" they love to hate will be gone and it WILL be like it should, dogs fighting dogs. Once they loose a couple hundred players, they will re-think their PVP vs PVE systems.
Tai Paktu Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.03.05 22:57:00 - [30] The assumption that all high sec wars are for griefing and are done by people with no PvP skill is complete rubbish. I was in a 20 man corp who did war decs in high sec for a few months. We averaged around 20-30m SP each. Our EU timezone had between 3-7 guys online regularly and our US had 6-10 (that includes overlap between the two timezones). We war dec'd large corps (100+) that declared in their corp descriptions that they were mixed industrial, mission running and PvP corps. We also dec'd decent sized empire based alliances and even some null sec ones when the timing and funding was right (had a dec active on BRUCE as they lost Fountain and fell apart, for example). EVE is a game where skill, tactics and intelligence are rewarded. This is especially the case in PvP. Had these corps we war dec'd formed up a decent sized fleet or cruisers, BCs, frigates and some battleships of even a fraction of their membership; they could have beaten us. Probably pretty soundly. We ran 5-6 man spider tanked BS gangs with some Falcon/Rapier support as well as HAC gangs. I think the largest gang I was in with the corp was 12 or so. Our opponents could easily have fielded 20+ at any given time. But they didn't. We took the initiative, scanned them out, found them, killed them and then left (or hung around to see if they'd fight back). As a result, we succeeded and they did not. We took what we wanted, had our fun and left. Sorry, but welcome to EvE. People can go ahead and call me a dirty griefer or whatever, say that I'm ruining the game for everyone and I'll just shake my head and go on playing in my sandbox. People who leave EvE because of a war dec wouldn't last long anyways; they'd be scammed, suicide ganked or otherwise 'griefed' out fairly early on into their subscription and still leave. As I've said in a dozen other war dec fix threads, provide some quantifiable evidence that your suggestion to change war decs will better the game and I'll give it some credence. You're making the suggestion for change so the onus is on you to prove that it's a good one.



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.