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Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.11 22:55:00 - [1] why do I have to fit one on my frig? do I have a choice? And what about the interceptors? why do I have to fit a mwd? (screw oversized ab's, they will get nerfed soon™) Hope you get the idea ... Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.11 22:55:00 - [2] why do I have to fit one on my frig? do I have a choice? And what about the interceptors? why do I have to fit a mwd? (screw oversized ab's, they will get nerfed soon™) Hope you get the idea ... Greetings Grim
Kritkeen	Posted - 2004.08.11 22:58:00 - [3] cause you then go slow and die, lol well you could mount just an ab like say on a tristan and put armor repairer's on it.....but you still die.....i do anyway the penalties from the mwd's is just something we have to adapt to i guess :S -----2004.08.02 17:00:58 combatYour Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Protector, wrecking for 847.8 damage. Your Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Protector, wrecking for 847.8 damage.----
Kritkeen	Posted - 2004.08.11 22:58:00 - [4] cause you then go slow and die, lol well you could mount just an ab like say on a tristan and put armor repairer's on it.....but you still die.....i do anyway the penalties from the mwd's is just something we have to adapt to i guess :S -----2004.08.02 17:00:58 combatYour Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Protector, wrecking for 847.8 damage. Your Modal Mega Neutron Particle Accelerator I perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Protector, wrecking for 847.8 damage.----
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.12 09:51:00 - [5] so does everyone like the fact that you have to fit a mwd on your frig or interceptor? Really would like to know that! Cuz if not, isnt there something wrong then??? Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.12 09:51:00 - [6] so does everyone like the fact that you have to fit a mwd on your frig or interceptor? Really would like to know that! Cuz if not, isnt there something wrong then??? Greetings Grim
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2004.08.12 10:00:00 - [7] Well, consider what would happen if you wouldnt have to. That would mean turrets and missiles need to be nerfed further so that they can't instakill slowass frigs anymore. Result of that is that they wouldnt be able to hit anything at all anywhere. Result, BS are useless, cruisers are usless. Ad any frig that would fit an mwd would really be totally invulnerable wouldn't it ? Not a good idea, fit an MWD. After all, if BS need to adapt to be able to combat frigs, frigs should need to adapt to combat or at least survive a BS. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2004.08.12 10:00:00 - [8] Well, consider what would happen if you wouldnt have to. That would mean turrets and missiles need to be nerfed further so that they can't instakill slowass frigs anymore. Result of that is that they wouldnt be able to hit anything at all anywhere. Result, BS are useless, cruisers are usless. Ad any frig that would fit an mwd would really be totally invulnerable wouldn't it ? Not a good idea, fit an MWD. After all, if BS need to adapt to be able to combat frigs, frigs should need to adapt to combat or at least survive a BS. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.12 10:46:00 - [9] well there we go ... Turrets have been changed so there is actually no difference if you use a mwd or not in a frig or interceptor. But my question is will an interceptor (or any other elite frig) be able to survive longer than 3 secs without a mwd or oversized ab? And another question WHY is this the ultimate module for any frig? Should it stay like that??? And if it stays like that why doesnt have all the other ships some sort of ultimate module which you have to fit ALWAYS in case you want to last longer then 3secs??? Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.12 10:46:00 - [10] well there we go ... Turrets have been changed so there is actually no difference if you use a mwd or not in a frig or interceptor. But my question is will an interceptor (or any other elite frig) be able to survive longer than 3 secs without a mwd or oversized ab? And another question WHY is this the ultimate module for any frig? Should it stay like that??? And if it stays like that why doesnt have all the other ships some sort of ultimate module which you have to fit ALWAYS in case you want to last longer then 3secs??? Greetings Grim
Hamatitio	Posted - 2004.08.12 10:55:00 - [11] Edited by: Hamatitio on 12/08/2004 10:56:39 I think you need to stop asking why, and put one on. Deal with it, if your, slow you die. -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
Hamatitio	Posted - 2004.08.12 10:55:00 - [12] Edited by: Hamatitio on 12/08/2004 10:56:39 I think you need to stop asking why, and put one on. Deal with it, if your, slow you die. -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
THE CHOSEN1	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:06:00 - [13] sounds like u are asking for a mwd bonus on interceptors
THE CHOSEN1	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:06:00 - [14] sounds like u are asking for a mwd bonus on interceptors
Mistress Zhantine	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:07:00 - [15] frigs are the fastest ships in the game, they are used primarily for that purpose and operate on the idea that faster is better, with a few notable exceptions, therefore it is in keeping with their design that you should try to squeeze as much speed out of it as possible... of course you dont HAVE to use one it depends entirely on what you are doing, for example a mining probe doesnt need a mwd, a jamming griffon doesnt need an mwd... if you are however fighting things or needing to get within range of a target asap an mwd does what it says on the tin ie: get you there f@*#in fast frigs are the cheapest and hence the flimsiest ships in game and so speed really is their only defence. You see what power is... Holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them... 2004.07.28 21:21:45combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Mortifier, wrecking for 916.3 damage.
Mistress Zhantine	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:07:00 - [16] frigs are the fastest ships in the game, they are used primarily for that purpose and operate on the idea that faster is better, with a few notable exceptions, therefore it is in keeping with their design that you should try to squeeze as much speed out of it as possible... of course you dont HAVE to use one it depends entirely on what you are doing, for example a mining probe doesnt need a mwd, a jamming griffon doesnt need an mwd... if you are however fighting things or needing to get within range of a target asap an mwd does what it says on the tin ie: get you there f@*#in fast frigs are the cheapest and hence the flimsiest ships in game and so speed really is their only defence. You see what power is... Holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them... 2004.07.28 21:21:45combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Mortifier, wrecking for 916.3 damage.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:08:00 - [17] No, he wants them to have 3km/sec base speed. Its simple: no mwd=dead.
Marcus Aurelius	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:08:00 - [18] No, he wants them to have 3km/sec base speed. Its simple: no mwd=dead.
Alowishus	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:14:00 - [19] I was messing around with my CEO this evening, he was in a Megathron and I was in a Rifter. I was basically trying to annoy him while he tested his setup out on his alt. After I got him to 75% shields he locked me and gave me the full salvo. This went on for about five minutes. I was orbiting at 5km slowly hacking away at him and he was unable to hit me at all. I got bored, shut down my weapons and shut my MWD off. Instantly a torp hit me. My Rifter was gone and so was a good portion of my pod's shields. The moral? Yes, you need an MWD, but only if you don't want to die almost instantly. We've established this. What does it mean though? Well let's see, I was able to run my MWD indefinitely, along with all my weapons, and a scrambler and I was invulnerable to attack. So why WOULDN'T I want to run an MWD? It doesn't seem fair really. Except the BS pilot can run a webber and then either use missiles or drones to take me out. What does the BS pilot then have to give up? Maybe a he has an Apoc and he has to give up two damage mods so that he has enough CPU for a missile launcher and webber. So then what? Now he's less effective with 87.5% of his high slots which means tackling larger ships just got that much harder. All so he can beat me, a frigate with an MWD, a few guns and a warp scrambler. The ultimate module/setup for any ship doesn't really exist. It's about who you can catch with their pants down. Soloing a BS in a frig isn't really that feasable but let's say it was a cruiser, a shield tanked, heavy beam laser Maller. No drones and no slots left for a webber, no way to hit me at my 5km 2400m/s orbit. I caught him with his pants down. I win. So the Maller pilot has to think, "ok, how do I prevent that from happening next time? And after the changes, who will I be vulnerable to? Will I run across anyone running exactly what I am vulnerable to?" So that Apoc pilot I talked about, is he going to expect a solo frig to attack his big, bad BS? Is he going to make the changes I suggested? It's all gambling, you pick the modules that you think will give you the most damage and survivability in the most common scenarios. Which in Eve is like having a sixteen when the dealer has a seven showing. Do your best. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Alowishus	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:14:00 - [20] I was messing around with my CEO this evening, he was in a Megathron and I was in a Rifter. I was basically trying to annoy him while he tested his setup out on his alt. After I got him to 75% shields he locked me and gave me the full salvo. This went on for about five minutes. I was orbiting at 5km slowly hacking away at him and he was unable to hit me at all. I got bored, shut down my weapons and shut my MWD off. Instantly a torp hit me. My Rifter was gone and so was a good portion of my pod's shields. The moral? Yes, you need an MWD, but only if you don't want to die almost instantly. We've established this. What does it mean though? Well let's see, I was able to run my MWD indefinitely, along with all my weapons, and a scrambler and I was invulnerable to attack. So why WOULDN'T I want to run an MWD? It doesn't seem fair really. Except the BS pilot can run a webber and then either use missiles or drones to take me out. What does the BS pilot then have to give up? Maybe a he has an Apoc and he has to give up two damage mods so that he has enough CPU for a missile launcher and webber. So then what? Now he's less effective with 87.5% of his high slots which means tackling larger ships just got that much harder. All so he can beat me, a frigate with an MWD, a few guns and a warp scrambler. The ultimate module/setup for any ship doesn't really exist. It's about who you can catch with their pants down. Soloing a BS in a frig isn't really that feasable but let's say it was a cruiser, a shield tanked, heavy beam laser Maller. No drones and no slots left for a webber, no way to hit me at my 5km 2400m/s orbit. I caught him with his pants down. I win. So the Maller pilot has to think, "ok, how do I prevent that from happening next time? And after the changes, who will I be vulnerable to? Will I run across anyone running exactly what I am vulnerable to?" So that Apoc pilot I talked about, is he going to expect a solo frig to attack his big, bad BS? Is he going to make the changes I suggested? It's all gambling, you pick the modules that you think will give you the most damage and survivability in the most common scenarios. Which in Eve is like having a sixteen when the dealer has a seven showing. Do your best. Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000
Mistress Zhantine	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:54:00 - [21] Edited by: Mistress Zhantine on 12/08/2004 11:56:32 ^ That last comment was one of the best things i've read concerning setups on this whole dam forum... this should be made sticky just for that... "It's all gambling, you pick the modules that you think will give you the most damage and survivability in the most common scenarios. Which in Eve is like having a sixteen when the dealer has a seven showing." (wishin i was as articulate as that) You see what power is... Holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them... 2004.07.28 21:21:45combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Mortifier, wrecking for 916.3 damage.
Mistress Zhantine	Posted - 2004.08.12 11:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Mistress Zhantine on 12/08/2004 11:56:32 ^ That last comment was one of the best things i've read concerning setups on this whole dam forum... this should be made sticky just for that... "It's all gambling, you pick the modules that you think will give you the most damage and survivability in the most common scenarios. Which in Eve is like having a sixteen when the dealer has a seven showing." (wishin i was as articulate as that) You see what power is... Holding someone elses fear in your hand and showing it to them... 2004.07.28 21:21:45combatYour 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Mortifier, wrecking for 916.3 damage.
Evona Moucrou	Posted - 2004.08.12 12:05:00 - [23] Edited by: Evona Moucrou on 12/08/2004 12:10:44 Originally by: Grim Vandal so does everyone like the fact that you have to fit a mwd on your frig or interceptor? Really would like to know that! Cuz if not, isnt there something wrong then??? I am with Grim there, so far I succeeded in refusing to fit a mwd on my frigattes (except for travelling of course). I think the speed differences between the different ship classes are too small. Actually, there are some fast cruisers that are faster than the slower frigattes, unfitted: stabber vs merlin. Maybe if the slowest frig would start at 500 speed, and maybe go up to 750 speed (or even 1000), and cruisers would be between 200 and 350, and Battleship below 150, the speeds would be better tiered. Then MWDs could be restricted to straight flight, no weapon activation, etc. And afterburners would be restricted to their ship classes. A 50% speed boost from an on-scale afterburner would actually mean something now. Originally by: Mistress Zhantine frigs are the fastest ships in the game, (..) Without MWD frigs are NOT the fastest ships. All ships can mount MWDs.
Evona Moucrou	Posted - 2004.08.12 12:05:00 - [24] Edited by: Evona Moucrou on 12/08/2004 12:10:44 Originally by: Grim Vandal so does everyone like the fact that you have to fit a mwd on your frig or interceptor? Really would like to know that! Cuz if not, isnt there something wrong then??? I am with Grim there, so far I succeeded in refusing to fit a mwd on my frigattes (except for travelling of course). I think the speed differences between the different ship classes are too small. Actually, there are some fast cruisers that are faster than the slower frigattes, unfitted: stabber vs merlin. Maybe if the slowest frig would start at 500 speed, and maybe go up to 750 speed (or even 1000), and cruisers would be between 200 and 350, and Battleship below 150, the speeds would be better tiered. Then MWDs could be restricted to straight flight, no weapon activation, etc. And afterburners would be restricted to their ship classes. A 50% speed boost from an on-scale afterburner would actually mean something now. Originally by: Mistress Zhantine frigs are the fastest ships in the game, (..) Without MWD frigs are NOT the fastest ships. All ships can mount MWDs.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.12 12:38:00 - [25] This thread is slowly getting there where I want it to have... First of all, I want the MWD's nerfed but mostly for frigs (im talking about elite frigs here since normal frigs should get owned cuz they just cost way less)!!! WAIT before you think wtf is this guy talking about the mwd is already nerfed to hell ... ... k there we go ... ... the mwd's DOESNT get nerfed itself but it gets less usefull compared to other modules ... ... so in order to achieve that WHAT changes do we need? Finally to solve this problem what do we have to do? YES missile changes!!!!!! Hehe YES this thread is actually about missile and not the MWD We all know that the physic engine cant handle it so that missile will miss their target!!! The proposed missile changes: Large missiles doing less dmg vs smaller targets but they will get an IMPACT DAMAGE will hit frigs quite hard IF they get hit head on or IF they arent moving!!! So this sounds actually quite good imo. It simulates the physic change that we cant have atm. This will help even cruiser and this change will help to make the mwds a less "no brainer" module. So gimmmmeehh my missile changes NOW Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.12 12:38:00 - [26] This thread is slowly getting there where I want it to have... First of all, I want the MWD's nerfed but mostly for frigs (im talking about elite frigs here since normal frigs should get owned cuz they just cost way less)!!! WAIT before you think wtf is this guy talking about the mwd is already nerfed to hell ... ... k there we go ... ... the mwd's DOESNT get nerfed itself but it gets less usefull compared to other modules ... ... so in order to achieve that WHAT changes do we need? Finally to solve this problem what do we have to do? YES missile changes!!!!!! Hehe YES this thread is actually about missile and not the MWD We all know that the physic engine cant handle it so that missile will miss their target!!! The proposed missile changes: Large missiles doing less dmg vs smaller targets but they will get an IMPACT DAMAGE will hit frigs quite hard IF they get hit head on or IF they arent moving!!! So this sounds actually quite good imo. It simulates the physic change that we cant have atm. This will help even cruiser and this change will help to make the mwds a less "no brainer" module. So gimmmmeehh my missile changes NOW Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.12 18:00:00 - [27] so anyone else feeling like the mwd is a "no brainer" module for a frig (elite frig) Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.12 18:00:00 - [28] so anyone else feeling like the mwd is a "no brainer" module for a frig (elite frig) Greetings Grim
Deionarra	Posted - 2004.08.12 20:27:00 - [29] The only reason that an MWD or 10MN AB is a no brainer on frigs is that without them you'll be unable to out run heavy/torp/cruise missles and so get pwned with ease. I was testing a few setups the other night with my taranis trying to find something that could work well once they remove the oversized AB option. I was fighting some sepentis rats (so no missles) and with the MWD it was a lot worse. Ok I could swap my Ions for Neutrons and fit a damage mod but using an mwd against turrest ships makes you NO MORE DIFFICULT to hit .. if anything it makes you easier to hit for any ship that you are not orbiting. Now with my reduced cap and getting hit more it made tanking the damage a lot harder. Finaly going at mwd speed (faster than the 10mn AB) it was harder to hit the rats so I couldn't realy appreciate my new damage boost. If they do bring in the missle changes then you'll no longer need an MWD, it'll only nerf you in combat and only be used for travel/closing/running .. which I belive was what CCP wanted when they put the sig radius penalty on it.
Deionarra	Posted - 2004.08.12 20:27:00 - [30] The only reason that an MWD or 10MN AB is a no brainer on frigs is that without them you'll be unable to out run heavy/torp/cruise missles and so get pwned with ease. I was testing a few setups the other night with my taranis trying to find something that could work well once they remove the oversized AB option. I was fighting some sepentis rats (so no missles) and with the MWD it was a lot worse. Ok I could swap my Ions for Neutrons and fit a damage mod but using an mwd against turrest ships makes you NO MORE DIFFICULT to hit .. if anything it makes you easier to hit for any ship that you are not orbiting. Now with my reduced cap and getting hit more it made tanking the damage a lot harder. Finaly going at mwd speed (faster than the 10mn AB) it was harder to hit the rats so I couldn't realy appreciate my new damage boost. If they do bring in the missle changes then you'll no longer need an MWD, it'll only nerf you in combat and only be used for travel/closing/running .. which I belive was what CCP wanted when they put the sig radius penalty on it.

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