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Waweri	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:18:00 - [1] So me and a corp mate where talking about the population of the EVE cluster. I mean even 45-50K pilots on at once is kinda small. Then we thought. What a minute where the captains of the ships right. The ones that can afford the pods and clones and implants and have enough influence to throw around a billion ISK at a time. So what about the crew? So trying to get a good estimate of crew sizes of ships and various sizes someone mentioned that it was done before. I searched through the forums and after 15 pages I gave up. Is there an official CCP answer? Or any Statistics?
Cat o'Ninetails Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:20:00 - [2] i dont understand the question but from what i understand i dont think it matters its like saying how many stars are there it doesnt matter Also, I believe that you should join Rancer Defence Force. It's cool. Thanks leaving eve!
Haakelen Gallente Angels. Acid.	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:20:00 - [3] There's some old pre-beta pictures from CCP showing the crew count of a few ships. IIRC T1 Cruisers have 400-600, BSes in the thousand range. And extrapolating further, capitals might as well have tens of thousands. Nothing official in terms of hard count in the last few years, though.
MooKids Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:29:00 - [4] I think those pictures show the crew sizes for non-capsule versions of the ships. The capsule version ships have much less personnel and frigate classes have a few or no crew at all. Also, you have to remember that the capsuleers are a rare breed, brought up to near godhood by the trillions of people in the galaxy. -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:37:00 - [5] That detail is insignificant. It is like asking how many computer consoles your ship has. EVE-Search would probably bring up some past discussions. I know there has been some semi-official statements made on the subject. Sig is now EVE related. Happy mods?
SadisticSavior Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.02 23:48:00 - [6] Edited by: SadisticSavior on 02/03/2009 23:54:09 Found this: http://www.eve-search.com/thread/911750 That thread has links to the original images. And yes, at least one CCP rep has confirmed ships do have crews. So dont let anyone tell you capsule ships are crew-less. Its bull****. What would be the point of having all those lights on if there are no people who need them? To deter burglars? Just as a basis for comparison, each of the World Trade Center towers contained about 25,000 people on a typical workday. (Reunification is Coming)
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:06:00 - [7] There's even a chronicle: Linkage
Marco Laert	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:18:00 - [8] Edited by: Marco Laert on 03/03/2009 00:20:44 The answer is actually lying nearby. In the cronicle "Hands of a killer" mentioned that casualties resulting from the destruction of the Apocalypse-class battleship were found of six-thousand three-hundred and fourteen crew members. Also, CCP Ginger said: "Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps." in this topic. Below, I mentioned some pictures that might be found on the Internet (for example here), completed with data about ship sizes, it's weight and crew count. It would be quite interesting to compare crew size fron cronicle and this kind pictures, but unfortunatelly i didn't found Apocalypse "BP" but I remember I saw it before on the web, so it might be found on some fan sites or stuff like that, I guess you might try to google it if you want. But taking to account that BS of single tier are pretty much the same, it's quite possible these pictures shows true or near to the true crew size, because as you may nitice Megathron crew amount are pretty close to the crew nuber mentioned in chronicle.
TigerXtrm BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:22:00 - [9] Still, a pod is big enough for only 1 person and I don't see 6900 pods floating around after my Megathron explodes... So we're just a bunch of sadistical bastards. Captain is the first, last and only one allowed to jump ship XD.
SadisticSavior Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:27:00 - [10] I don't have a link, but in the past Devs have said that the crew does eject if the ship is destroyed. We just don't see it graphically. (Reunification is Coming)
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:28:00 - [11] Originally by: TigerXtrm Still, a pod is big enough for only 1 person and I don't see 6900 pods floating around after my Megathron explodes... So we're just a bunch of sadistical bastards. Captain is the first, last and only one allowed to jump ship XD. Heheheh ... well, you're ship does have escape pods, so theoretically your crew could have gotten away. You could be the LAST to leave, in a 'captain goes down with the ship' sort of way.
Y Berion Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:45:00 - [12] Whatever they say, my ships do not have a crew. I got high tech computers, drones, nanobots and such onboard to take care of everything. Wtf would those 6-7k people do on average battleship? Cleaning the dust? Pressing the buttons? Reloading the guns? Meh... even today modern tanks have automatic gun reload mechanism, in 20 years we won`t need anyone except (maybe) a commander.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.03 00:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Y Berion Whatever they say, my ships do not have a crew. I got high tech computers, drones, nanobots and such onboard to take care of everything. Wtf would those 6-7k people do on average battleship? Cleaning the dust? Pressing the buttons? Reloading the guns? Meh... even today modern tanks have automatic gun reload mechanism, in 20 years we won`t need anyone except (maybe) a commander. I've had a player tell me that he was a genetic manipulation of a race of beings who had not yet been discovered ... space dragons who used human DNA, spliced it with their own, to create the person in question. He then goes on to tell us how 'droids' are the single working factor on his ship and that he requires neither crew, nor companionship. The reason why I bring this individuals roleplay background up, is to illustrate a fine point: Just because you say it, doesn't make it so.
Nerogk Shorn Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Y Berion Whatever they say, my ships do not have a crew. I got high tech computers, drones, nanobots and such onboard to take care of everything. Wtf would those 6-7k people do on average battleship? Cleaning the dust? Pressing the buttons? Reloading the guns? Meh... even today modern tanks have automatic gun reload mechanism, in 20 years we won`t need anyone except (maybe) a commander. I've had a player tell me that he was a genetic manipulation of a race of beings who had not yet been discovered ... space dragons who used human DNA, spliced it with their own, to create the person in question. He then goes on to tell us how 'droids' are the single working factor on his ship and that he requires neither crew, nor companionship. The reason why I bring this individuals roleplay background up, is to illustrate a fine point: Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. He wast talking about real life, though, wasn't he? The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:09:00 - [15] Originally by: TigerXtrm Still, a pod is big enough for only 1 person and I don't see 6900 pods floating around after my Megathron explodes... So we're just a bunch of sadistical bastards. Captain is the first, last and only one allowed to jump ship XD. Capsules are not the same as escape pods/lifeboats. They're big isolation tank/life-support/computer/neural interfaces. Equating capsules (colloquially known as 'pods') with escape pods is incorrect.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Nerogk Shorn Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Y Berion Whatever they say, my ships do not have a crew. I got high tech computers, drones, nanobots and such onboard to take care of everything. Wtf would those 6-7k people do on average battleship? Cleaning the dust? Pressing the buttons? Reloading the guns? Meh... even today modern tanks have automatic gun reload mechanism, in 20 years we won`t need anyone except (maybe) a commander. I've had a player tell me that he was a genetic manipulation of a race of beings who had not yet been discovered ... space dragons who used human DNA, spliced it with their own, to create the person in question. He then goes on to tell us how 'droids' are the single working factor on his ship and that he requires neither crew, nor companionship. The reason why I bring this individuals roleplay background up, is to illustrate a fine point: Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. He wast talking about real life, though, wasn't he? He was inferring that he believes technology is high enough in this future scenario of EvE that all functions of a ship can be done by automation. The developers and backstory, on the other hand, seems to constantly dispute that. In some parts technology is great ... in others, it might be even more limited than what we have in real life. So, while he may disagree with how the world of EvE should be, it doesn't necessarily change anything. We don't write the rules for this fantasy universe ... they do.
Y Berion Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:09:00 - [17] Edited by: Y Berion on 03/03/2009 01:10:36 I am just saying that having people in such technologically advanced ships does not make any sense to me. They would do... what exactly? I would like to hear that part of the story explained too. Especially when you consider modern trends of weapons development (each new generation -> more automation -> less people needed).
MooKids Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:11:00 - [18] Edited by: MooKids on 03/03/2009 01:16:22 Originally by: Y Berion Meh... even today modern tanks have automatic gun reload mechanism Of course modern tanks also aren't the size of Rhode Island. -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:21:00 - [19] Edited by: Khemul Zula on 03/03/2009 01:22:45 Originally by: Y Berion Edited by: Y Berion on 03/03/2009 01:10:36 I am just saying that having people in such technologically advanced ships does not make any sense to me. They would do... what exactly? I would like to hear that part of the story explained too. Especially when you consider modern trends of weapons development (each new generation -> more automation -> less people needed). There are a few chronicles that explain what the crew does. Atleast part of their job is repair and damage control when the automated systems start to fail. I don't think you quite get the scale, a frigate is bigger then a 747. Sig is now EVE related. Happy mods?
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Y Berion Edited by: Y Berion on 03/03/2009 01:10:36 I am just saying that having people in such technologically advanced ships does not make any sense to me. They would do... what exactly? I would like to hear that part of the story explained too. Especially when you consider modern trends of weapons development (each new generation -> more automation -> less people needed). Modern battleships load ammo automatically, but you still have four guys who run the gunners station and keep the machines operational, as well as make sure the ammo fired is up to par, or who can do it manually in case of a breakdown.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:27:00 - [21] til' my crew starts whining that they're hungry or stressed out or need sleep or dying or something then I only think of them as part of the ship and it wouldn't matter what they were. They don't even have names. - Infectious -
Y Berion Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:28:00 - [22] Ah yes and one more funny thing about the idea of having the human crew on Eve ships... if I understood the background story well, one of the most important pod functions is to protect the pilot inside from deadly forces which would occur when (for example) spacecraft is speeding up/slowing down/turning, etc. If that`s so, then how the hack could all those other people without their own personal pods survive the flight?
Gabrialle Amarr Sanctuary Logistical Industries Inc	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:38:00 - [23] last year they did a few 'interviews' with members of ships 'crews' before going into a competition (i think it was the alliance tourny, but im not sure). the one that i'll always remember is of a woman in charge of a gunnery crew, every member of the crew was missing one hand, 5 or 6 guys, just loaders mind you not targeting or fireing, each shell had to be manually loaded. And if there ships survived they would have been paid enough isk to never have to work again for several generations. They didnt survive, which made me very sad, the characters portrayed were so real. anyway the idea in the eve fiction is that capsule fitted frig may have 2 or 3 a cruiser may have a 100 or so depending on the cruiser a BC 500+ a BS 1000+. these are rough minimum crew levels, so no cooks or cleaners, no command and control staff. Other than that your pod is put in a modified cargo bay. most ships have escape pods. most ships will be fully staffed unless, in an RP situation, your going out to blow up and take as many of 'them' with you as you can. There are so many NPC crewman wannabes in eve that even popping a hundred moms is a drop in the sea. GENERATION 21: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
Y Berion Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Ruze Modern battleships load ammo automatically, but you still have four guys who run the gunners station and keep the machines operational, as well as make sure the ammo fired is up to par, or who can do it manually in case of a breakdown. Ok those are, let`s agree, four guys - today. But how many guys were needed for the same job on WW2 battleships? And in WW1? And what do you think how many would be needed in 50 years from now? One guy? Or maybe none? And in 10.000 years? Also I do not see why the size of the ships in Eve would have anything to do with crew. Because (again an example) bigger ships = bigger guns = bigger shells = bigger automatic machinery, right? I find really amusing to imagine hundred of people carrying some huge ammo shell from one part of the ship to another - that`s almost the same technology as building the pyramids in ancient Egypt.
yunger Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:52:00 - [25] A modern day aircraft carrier has a crew of about 4 thousand and they are only the size of an eve cruiser. CCP has not gone out with much details about the crew (we are godlike don't care about the crew they are replaceable and cheap, ships are not) My personal favourite is from a piece of fan fiction in EON, ships have a crew ranging from a few hundred to a few thousand but a ship explosion while not necessarily mean all of the ship goes up in smoke but most of the crew will survive in escape pods when **** hits the fan (The bastards abandon ship when in hull) also the ship has allot of pressure compartments so when the ship "breaks" they can survive for a while until some scavenger goes in for the salvage (and hopefully gives them a ride) The eve book by tony mentions how the crew that are not inside a pod react to warping/jumping (badly) but it's a high paying job and seeing the short life span of ships you probably aren't to get old even if you have a large chance of surviving a ship explosion
yunger Big Shadows Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.03 01:58:00 - [26] Edited by: yunger on 03/03/2009 01:58:54 Originally by: Y Berion Originally by: Ruze Modern battleships load ammo automatically, but you still have four guys who run the gunners station and keep the machines operational, as well as make sure the ammo fired is up to par, or who can do it manually in case of a breakdown. Ok those are, let`s agree, four guys - today. But how many guys were needed for the same job on WW2 battleships? And in WW1? And what do you think how many would be needed in 50 years from now? One guy? Or maybe none? And in 10.000 years? Also I do not see why the size of the ships in Eve would have anything to do with crew. Because (again an example) bigger ships = bigger guns = bigger shells = bigger automatic machinery, right? I find really amusing to imagine hundred of people carrying some huge ammo shell from one part of the ship to another - that`s almost the same technology as building the pyramids in ancient Egypt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Battleship_Bismarck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford_class_aircraft_carrier If wiki is to believed a modern aircraft carrier has more then twice as many crew members as a ww2 BS the carrier being only slightly bigger more modern does not mean less crew it means you not only need to polish the guns as scrub the deck you need it personnel, experts on reactor control and so on. And those guys need chefÆs barbers and so on.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.03 02:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Y Berion Originally by: Ruze Modern battleships load ammo automatically, but you still have four guys who run the gunners station and keep the machines operational, as well as make sure the ammo fired is up to par, or who can do it manually in case of a breakdown. Ok those are, let`s agree, four guys - today. But how many guys were needed for the same job on WW2 battleships? And in WW1? And what do you think how many would be needed in 50 years from now? One guy? Or maybe none? And in 10.000 years? Also I do not see why the size of the ships in Eve would have anything to do with crew. Because (again an example) bigger ships = bigger guns = bigger shells = bigger automatic machinery, right? I find really amusing to imagine hundred of people carrying some huge ammo shell from one part of the ship to another - that`s almost the same technology as building the pyramids in ancient Egypt. A lot of people tend to believe that 'future' equals 'better'. Even our own real-earth history proves this is false, though. Before Christ came about, the Chinese had toilets and sewer systems. Yet history still records that as more of a modern breakthrough. Muslims were using antibiotics since before the crusades, but due to the repression of 'heretical' practices and the rise of the Catholic Church to the prime European power (and the fall of certain middle-eastern powers), this knowledge had to be rediscovered. Again, this is considered a token of modern medicine. That being said, technologies don't always advance in the same way. It's entirely possible that in EvE, human life is worth less than we consider it today, so nobody has even THOUGHT to replace gunners and loaders with robots. There's no reason to 'invent' something of that nature, when it's cheaper and simpler to hire someone to do it. Most great inventions make you go 'now why didn't I think of that'. Mostly because they are such obvious, yet often overlooked, variations in common thought.
Gabrialle Amarr Sanctuary Logistical Industries Inc	Posted - 2009.03.03 02:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Y Berion Originally by: Ruze Modern battleships load ammo automatically, but you still have four guys who run the gunners station and keep the machines operational, as well as make sure the ammo fired is up to par, or who can do it manually in case of a breakdown. Ok those are, let`s agree, four guys - today. But how many guys were needed for the same job on WW2 battleships? And in WW1? And what do you think how many would be needed in 50 years from now? One guy? Or maybe none? And in 10.000 years? Also I do not see why the size of the ships in Eve would have anything to do with crew. Because (again an example) bigger ships = bigger guns = bigger shells = bigger automatic machinery, right? I find really amusing to imagine hundred of people carrying some huge ammo shell from one part of the ship to another - that`s almost the same technology as building the pyramids in ancient Egypt. you seem to forget however that civilization in eve fell and resurfaced. how much of that tech do you imagine has been scavenged? Think about it, amarr lasers could well have come about only because there happened to be a laser defense satellite left in orbit. So Why assume that, with cheap expendable labour, your gonna bother reinventing an autoloader? hell come to that, can that autoloader then run to the otherside of the ship to help repair the reactor? or help rejig the sensors? you work with what youve got, and what most eve civs have is people, what they lacked back in the days of space travel, was tech and resources. why havent they bothered since? if it aint broke dont fix it. GENERATION 21: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.03.03 02:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Ruze It's entirely possible that in EvE, human life is worth less than we consider it today, so nobody has even THOUGHT to replace gunners and loaders with robots. This is most likely a large part of it. We pod pilots don't even bother to check if the crew survived or not. We just write them all off as dead after a shiploss and have a notice sent out to next of kin. Also we have to keep in mind that AI doesn't seem all that widespread in the EVE universe. To replace an entire crew of a ship the size of an aircraft carrier, you need machines capable of atleast some low-level intelligence and flexibility. Sig is now EVE related. Happy mods?
Y Berion Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.03 02:17:00 - [30] Yunger, you should not compare carrier and battleship just like that. Again, size (aka tonnage) is not important - their roles are. Those are two completely different ship types, with carrier being much more "complicated". So it is expected for carrier to have way more people onboard because basically it is sailing military airport and therefore needs a lot more hands than battleship. Right now I cannot tell exact number but I think that more than 50% of total crew number on a carrier is actually airforce related personnel.

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