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Yaay
Reikoku
KenZoku
   |
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:00:00 -
[1]
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/834808/page/1
Initially, the listed thread went well, but game/time has changed things as will the new patch. I think it's time for a more Refined look at Titans and Moms and to a much lesser extent carriers.
What spawns this debate again is the apparent necessary boost that's either coming with this patch or soon after. Titan and Mothership mass will matter when bumping. I don't think there is a sole out there who will argue against this. It's long overdue. However, removing bumping opens a whole new can of worms, particularly with Titans, and Moms are already horridly crappy atm.
Firstly, The Boost Idea:
Titans, Moms, Carriers all have ship bays. Rather than artificially jump portaling people around for relatively low cost, why shouldn't ships be required to dock inside these caps to get jumped around. Leave portaling, but increase the cost. Add this as another option. It tends to cater to smaller groups more than larger fleets, but can be utilized by both.
Why?
Forces a more proactive role of the cap or supercap in question. It also adds more utility to the role of Moms and Carriers while in no real way skewing their offensive or defensive abilities. Added to the introductory changes to Local, this means engaging any of the caps in question becomes more of a question of what lurks inside it. For a mom, is it really solo and defenseless or are 25 hacs about to pour out of it and unleash on you.
This concept also decreases fleet mobility slightly, (no more bridging for low cost) but adds more of a concept to how and why you get a fleet moved.
How?
The basic mechanics to this Idea are already in game. Docking inside a ship is no more problematic than the current view ship option... Essentially you become a part of the ship you are docked in. You view it's movements, it's jumps, and it's health. The only affect it has on you is 0 damage while docked, unless the ship is destroyed.... in that instance, your ship is lost too, and the pods come poring out.
While docked?
Repairing Heat damage should be allowed. The host ship should/would need Nanite paste as well as strontium deposites. Paste alone would be needed for touch ups to heat damage, a mixture of the two would be needed for a full repair. This is important for ideas listed below.
===============================
Titans and DD.
When titans were introduced, everyone was sold on the Idea that Titans would change the course of battles. Nobody was sold on the idea that Titans would dictated battles. Unfortunately, all to often the later has occurred making for a much more stale 0.0 environment.
The original linked post showed a way to change the DD to a secondary effect on fleets rather than it's current primary role of pure damage. Essentially, It made Doomsdays affect battles, Not End them. However, the game has changed and the details are a bit dated. So the revameped DD idea:
ROF 20 min:
20% chance to cause 40 heat damage (lvl 5)
10k Maxed (lvl 5) racial damage
15,000 Energy Neutralized (lvl 5 skill)
Warp Stasis, 20 second delay to affected ships warp abilities (including titan)
Why:
Damage is left to help titans deal with very small support, weak cruisers, drones, and dictor bubbles. Neutralizing affects fleet manuverability and damage output temporarily allowing the unaffected a tactical advantage on the field. Warp disruption allows more opportunities to catch fleets after the effects while also putting the titan at more risk for a limited time.
Heat damage is the ultimate effect. A 20% chance to lose any module on your ship on the average battleship will result in about 3-4 modules lost after a DD. Some ships will be lucky, some wont. The point is it cripples a fleet w/o removing a fleet. Actual ship losses should be left up to the supporting titan fleet to create. After all, they're recieving a huge advantage from the DD, Undersized, becomes less of a reason not to come in.
It's the Economy Stupid |
Yaay
Reikoku
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Yaay on 05/03/2009 22:17:48
Edited by: Yaay on 05/03/2009 22:08:10
Now mixing heat damage with the new repair system means Motherships become more proactive as mobile bases of operation, as do friendly titans. Titan effects are crippling without being obnoxiously devastating.
Titans, Moms, Defense:
In addition to the Change in DD's roles, I think the titans need to get a defensive bonus and yet another HP buffer. For motherships, just a HP buffer. Rather than Siege, which seems to be the popular quick fix idea, My solution is to add the common 25% resist or 37.5% active repairs to each ship in accordance to their race. However, For each lvl of titan, Add an additional 5% to the primary enemy damage source. So for an Avatar, that would be 25% resist with a 50% bonus at lvl 5 for Explosive damage.
To date, Tanks have never saved a Titan. They haven't even prolonged them. Titans are either Ganked, or not lost, it's just that simple. Motherships are even worse because they've had more opportunities to be on the field with dreads active. Their problem is, before anything can be done to save them, a few dozen dreads can drop them without issue. So for Motherships, a HP buffer is more geared to allow better spider tanks. Simply put, there has to be more reason to justify their cost.
We know there is a change coming to 0.0 sov mechanics. It's probably going to be on par with the nano nerf in it's severity. At the moment, A mothership's last saving grace is it's affectiveness under a cyno jammer. When that's removed, what will it have left? Give it HP, give it docking and fleet jumping, give it repairing.
Apocrypha effects on these changes:
One of the beauties of these ideas are how they work with T3. Docking inside capitals can open the doors to reset ships at a mobile base.. not just refit them, but rebuild them on site.
Some wormholes allow motherships in currently. So I say increase the potential to allow titans in, but remove POS structures and cloaking for all ships except recons. This means capitals become the foreground bases of operations in wormholes. Yet, why risk a titan if you cant cloak it, thus creating the balance between economies of scale. Carriers and Rorqs become just as effective and useful, just with smaller capacities for ships/cargo. Local changes mean you'll never know these ships are present, which creates the "discovery of a lifetime opportunities for PvP"
T3 also receives a bonus to heat damage reduction, meaning 1 doomsday under the proposed mechanics cannot incap it's modules even if the effect lands.
It actually creates more of a purpose for the introduction and implementation of t3 designs and it's future development. It creates a logical purpose for why it's needed.
It's the Economy Stupid |
Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO
Minmatar
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:06:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Maximum KILLDEATHRATIO on 05/03/2009 22:07:18
More asinine DDD change ideas.
DDD is dumb idea, don't fix it, get rid of the goddamn thing.
And you just grouped together a bunch of ideas so even if we agree with one of them we aren't gonna thumbs it.
___________________
Yes I'm bitter. (the taste you can see!)
|
Gedrin Hal
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 22:41:00 -
[4]
I like the fixes. Main reason being as you said, it keeps doomsdays as a useful fleet weapon without removing the need for a fleet.
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Vuk Lau
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 23:26:00 -
[5]
RL is hitting me hard so I just cant find time to finaly finish my supercap proposal.
Hopefully I will have it all summed up in next few days so I will raise it together with your thread. We share similar views tho.
Anyway stay tuned. :D
|
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
|
Posted - 2009.03.05 23:33:00 -
[6]
Supercaps are NOT allowed in wormholes.
Otherwise, the only thing I support is the changes to the mothership. The Titan changes still suck. It pretty much nullifies the whole point of them so please try again.
--Isaac
Isaac's Haul*Mart
|
Lewyrus
Jugis Modo Utopia
Skunk-Works
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 11:01:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Yaay
The basic mechanics to this Idea are already in game. Docking inside a ship is no more problematic than the current view ship option... Essentially you become a part of the ship you are docked in. You view it's movements, it's jumps, and it's health. The only affect it has on you is 0 damage while docked, unless the ship is destroyed.... in that instance, your ship is lost too, and the pods come poring out.
One of the concerns about "docking into player controlled ship" ideas is that what happens, when a player thet carries other players disconnects or logs off?
Would the ship stay in space until everybody disembarks, perhaps delaying log-off aggro too? What if there's an AFK pilot? Or everybody would pop out into space when the carrier player disconnects?
How would you solve this? |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 13:47:00 -
[8]
I like the ideas... but would there be a reversal of the limitations of what can be in the ship maint bays?
Or do I have eject any cans or cynofuel before i can get in?
If that restriction gets changed? What would stop people from using carriers again to move goods and ships besides jumpfreighter? etc etc.
I dont like the idea of nerfing jumpbridges. They are limited to sov 3. Same with Titans.. Titans arent exactly cheap and disposable... despite what shrike thinks.
I definately like the idea of boosting carrier-moms to do what they sort of are designed to do. Right now it's a joke... just to get people into jumpfreighters.
Personally I'm more of the opinion ofboosting moms into a new role. Such as being able to remote rep sieged things. Like dreads for example.
Right now if you get into a big dread battle. If the dread is primary... they unsiege hoping they dont die and get repped by the carriers in order to mess up their targets.
Would be very cool to see moms there for more balance.
As for titans. When bombs came out with the anti-cap sort of idea. I thought they would come out with something similar for titans. Generic mod that all 4 titans can fit. 250km range anti-cap DD. Just to give the option of DMG or anti-cap.
HEatwarfare should be left to be done right.
------------------------
To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
------------------------
Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Yaay
Reikoku
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.06 20:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lewyrus
Originally by: Yaay
The basic mechanics to this Idea are already in game. Docking inside a ship is no more problematic than the current view ship option... Essentially you become a part of the ship you are docked in. You view it's movements, it's jumps, and it's health. The only affect it has on you is 0 damage while docked, unless the ship is destroyed.... in that instance, your ship is lost too, and the pods come poring out.
One of the concerns about "docking into player controlled ship" ideas is that what happens, when a player thet carries other players disconnects or logs off?
Would the ship stay in space until everybody disembarks, perhaps delaying log-off aggro too? What if there's an AFK pilot? Or everybody would pop out into space when the carrier player disconnects?
How would you solve this?
Player controlled ships get ejected... obviously this isn't an afk hiding place.
It's the Economy Stupid |
Sovereign533
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.03.08 03:24:00 -
[10]
me like
*Your signature file has been removed for the inclusion of inappropriate language. -- Fallout 3 |
Yaay
Reikoku
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 04:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Supercaps are NOT allowed in wormholes.
Otherwise, the only thing I support is the changes to the mothership. The Titan changes still suck. It pretty much nullifies the whole point of them so please try again.
--Isaac
So far there has been a titan DD attempt on sleepers, and motherships in wormholes confirmed.... so I do not know where you get your information from.
As for the dd fix, it actually points them in line with their original concept. Massive effects to fleets especially in a focused area w/o being the 1 touch I win.
Think of it this way if a bs has 8 guns and a dd goes off with the heat damage proposal only... on average it will lose nearly 2 guns from 1 dd... Multiple DD remove Multiple guns.... add that to bubbles on a fleet and drones being killed with damage from the DD and you have a virtually defenseless fleet, ripe to be smashed by your smaller fleet. Add in the other effects as well like cap drain and warp disruption for 20s, and MWDing is even temporarily removed from the picture.
I mean, how does that devalue a DD for anyone other than a mail whoring titan pilot? |
Solo Arthurus
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 07:10:00 -
[12]
Hey look, a (particularly awful) Band of Brothers FC arguing in favour of a supercapital boost. My word. |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 13/03/2009 16:33:36
Sorry I would much rather a drone control range boost and moving while triage than the ability to carry around some hacks(Although pouring hacs onto the gatecamps I solo hotdrop would be ****ing hilarious, I see massive potential for abuse)
edit: Also your resist and hp changes would make supercaps pretty much immmune to support fleets under 500 people.
-------------------------------------------------
Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
|
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Yaay
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Supercaps are NOT allowed in wormholes.
Otherwise, the only thing I support is the changes to the mothership. The Titan changes still suck. It pretty much nullifies the whole point of them so please try again.
--Isaac
So far there has been a titan DD attempt on sleepers, and motherships in wormholes confirmed.... so I do not know where you get your information from.
As for the dd fix, it actually points them in line with their original concept. Massive effects to fleets especially in a focused area w/o being the 1 touch I win.
Think of it this way if a bs has 8 guns and a dd goes off with the heat damage proposal only... on average it will lose nearly 2 guns from 1 dd... Multiple DD remove Multiple guns.... add that to bubbles on a fleet and drones being killed with damage from the DD and you have a virtually defenseless fleet, ripe to be smashed by your smaller fleet. Add in the other effects as well like cap drain and warp disruption for 20s, and MWDing is even temporarily removed from the picture.
I mean, how does that devalue a DD for anyone other than a mail whoring titan pilot?
Also some proof here would be nice to show you aren't simply talking about **** you know nothing about (Lawl bob with supercaps that arent camped into PR-)
Ive personally tried to throw my wyvern through several dozen wormholes that fit capitals with no luck so far.
-------------------------------------------------
Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
|
Rodent Jr
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 16:46:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Rodent Jr on 13/03/2009 16:46:19
Originally by: Yaay
So far there has been a titan DD attempt on sleepers, and motherships in wormholes confirmed.... so I do not know where you get your information from.
From our dev buddies
Quote:
The wormholes into W-space are too small to allow the transit of Titans and Motherships. All dreams of Quad-DDing a Sleeper fleet, as much as they might deserve it, are now shattered. (Awww!)
Even though you can bring your Rorquals into W-space, their clone vat bay functionality will be unavailable.
|
Yaay
Reikoku
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rodent Jr
Edited by: Rodent Jr on 13/03/2009 16:46:19
Originally by: Yaay
So far there has been a titan DD attempt on sleepers, and motherships in wormholes confirmed.... so I do not know where you get your information from.
From our dev buddies
Quote:
The wormholes into W-space are too small to allow the transit of Titans and Motherships. All dreams of Quad-DDing a Sleeper fleet, as much as they might deserve it, are now shattered. (Awww!)
Even though you can bring your Rorquals into W-space, their clone vat bay functionality will be unavailable.
and they know everything about their own game... hrmmmm didn't i read about a pos exploit recently. what they say and what's reality are 2 different things.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Yaay
Reikoku
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
I like the ideas... but would there be a reversal of the limitations of what can be in the ship maint bays?
Or do I have eject any cans or cynofuel before i can get in?
If that restriction gets changed? What would stop people from using carriers again to move goods and ships besides jumpfreighter? etc etc.
I dont like the idea of nerfing jumpbridges. They are limited to sov 3. Same with Titans.. Titans arent exactly cheap and disposable... despite what shrike thinks.
I definately like the idea of boosting carrier-moms to do what they sort of are designed to do. Right now it's a joke... just to get people into jumpfreighters.
Personally I'm more of the opinion ofboosting moms into a new role. Such as being able to remote rep sieged things. Like dreads for example.
Right now if you get into a big dread battle. If the dread is primary... they unsiege hoping they dont die and get repped by the carriers in order to mess up their targets.
Would be very cool to see moms there for more balance.
As for titans. When bombs came out with the anti-cap sort of idea. I thought they would come out with something similar for titans. Generic mod that all 4 titans can fit. 250km range anti-cap DD. Just to give the option of DMG or anti-cap.
HEatwarfare should be left to be done right.
these ships have maintinence bays for loot, why do you need to hold onto it.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 20:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Yaay
Originally by: Rodent Jr
Edited by: Rodent Jr on 13/03/2009 16:46:19
Originally by: Yaay
So far there has been a titan DD attempt on sleepers, and motherships in wormholes confirmed.... so I do not know where you get your information from.
From our dev buddies
Quote:
The wormholes into W-space are too small to allow the transit of Titans and Motherships. All dreams of Quad-DDing a Sleeper fleet, as much as they might deserve it, are now shattered. (Awww!)
Even though you can bring your Rorquals into W-space, their clone vat bay functionality will be unavailable.
and they know everything about their own game... hrmmmm didn't i read about a pos exploit recently. what they say and what's reality are 2 different things.
Lawl silly CCP they should learn the ****in game like BoB has.
Seriously stop posting and lead more hilariously terrible fleet ops.
-------------------------------------------------
Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
|
Yaay
Reikoku
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 21:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Yaay
Originally by: Rodent Jr
Edited by: Rodent Jr on 13/03/2009 16:46:19
Originally by: Yaay
So far there has been a titan DD attempt on sleepers, and motherships in wormholes confirmed.... so I do not know where you get your information from.
From our dev buddies
Quote:
The wormholes into W-space are too small to allow the transit of Titans and Motherships. All dreams of Quad-DDing a Sleeper fleet, as much as they might deserve it, are now shattered. (Awww!)
Even though you can bring your Rorquals into W-space, their clone vat bay functionality will be unavailable.
and they know everything about their own game... hrmmmm didn't i read about a pos exploit recently. what they say and what's reality are 2 different things.
Lawl silly CCP they should learn the ****in game like BoB has.
Seriously stop posting and lead more hilariously terrible fleet ops.
those pesky neuts, how dare they defy your logic about supercap kills.... stupid capacitor weaknesses.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:06:00 -
[20]
It was allowed on sisi, it wasnt on tranq. The devs even spoke on this. Curse those devs ****ing all of your assumptions based off what you heard from a dude who heard from a friend.
-------------------------------------------------
Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
|
Yaay
Reikoku
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 22:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
It was allowed on sisi, it wasnt on tranq. The devs even spoke on this. Curse those devs ****ing all of your assumptions based off what you heard from a dude who heard from a friend.
My appologies, I'll be sure to log into MSN tonight after our op.... as for the changes, you've refuted one small portion of an otherwise solid idea.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 23:25:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Yaay
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
It was allowed on sisi, it wasnt on tranq. The devs even spoke on this. Curse those devs ****ing all of your assumptions based off what you heard from a dude who heard from a friend.
My appologies, I'll be sure to log into MSN tonight after our op.... as for the changes, you've refuted one small portion of an otherwise solid idea.
I refuted several you just chose to argue only one.
-------------------------------------------------
Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
|
Jamin Berry
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 01:32:00 -
[23]
While I think Motherships and Titans need to be looked at, I don't think these changes in particular are very good at all. Voted no.
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Vincent Athen
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 01:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jamin Berry
While I think Motherships and Titans need to be looked at, I don't think these changes in particular are very good at all. Voted no.
I agree with this post. |
Drave McClay
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 02:13:00 -
[25]
This is a horrible idea.
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Sentinel Eeex
Caldari
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 03:09:00 -
[26]
You forgot to ask for Titans to be able to also permanently warp scramble everything in range of 250km.
They should also have huge speakers on the outside, and broadcast propaganda (not that anyone would hear, but would still be cool).
And they should glow in dark...
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DaiTengu
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 05:08:00 -
[27]
Anyone supporting this particular proposal needs to have their head examined.
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Baquack Obamailure
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.03.14 05:19:00 -
[28]
A well balanced proposal that the CSM should seriously consider.
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Takeshi Yamato
|
Posted - 2009.03.16 11:57:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Takeshi Yamato on 16/03/2009 12:01:53
Supporting the DD change. Anythingh is better than the current DD version.
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Gaogan
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 21:01:00 -
[30]
I'm not sure the specifics are perfect, but I like the general idea of the DDD proposal to make it more of a massive debilitating effect instead of just a giant smartbomb. Also I have been saying for a long time that motherships need to get an even larger SMA and either the ability to have pilots dock for jump, or rework the clone vat bay so they are a useful instrument for delivering pilots to the ms after a jump so they can board the ships in the SMA. And the no movement penalty while triaging also sounds nice.
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Draith Vinal
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 14:14:00 -
[31]
Moms , especially asking for some love .We getting more and more posts about that.
Not many people will support them because not many people fly or produce the supercaps.
I already posted it somewhere else but let moms bridge ships as well (maybe one bridge per 30min?)
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Yaay
Reikoku Reloaded
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 22:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Draith Vinal
Moms , especially asking for some love .We getting more and more posts about that.
Not many people will support them because not many people fly or produce the supercaps.
I already posted it somewhere else but let moms bridge ships as well (maybe one bridge per 30min?)
Bridging is lame because it's limitless and never puts the titan out in the open. Just like DD are lame b/c titans only sit on the field for about 25 seconds.
The type of fleet movement I posted is more practical and sensible to make these ships more vulnerable.
The loss of a titan or Mom should be an epic battle all it's own. Right now it's a 30 second laughing stock with dreads.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Yaay
Reikoku Reloaded
KenZoku
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 22:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Gaogan
I'm not sure the specifics are perfect, but I like the general idea of the DDD proposal to make it more of a massive debilitating effect instead of just a giant smartbomb. Also I have been saying for a long time that motherships need to get an even larger SMA and either the ability to have pilots dock for jump, or rework the clone vat bay so they are a useful instrument for delivering pilots to the ms after a jump so they can board the ships in the SMA. And the no movement penalty while triaging also sounds nice.
I'll Update my initial comment about defense... I believe 2x now a titan has survived due to tank... not because it was saved by a fleet, but because it managed to inch into pos shields in time. They deffo need more tank, and those proposed tank bonuses would do 100x more for those ships than any triage bonus.
I seriously want RR carriers outta the game or limited to triage too, but that's another issue all together and would just **** people off here.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
BaronCannibal
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 04:56:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Draith Vinal
Moms , especially asking for some love .We getting more and more posts about that.
Not many people will support them because not many people fly or produce the supercaps.
I already posted it somewhere else but let moms bridge ships as well (maybe one bridge per 30min?)
This plus some other upgrades
|
xttz
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 19:15:00 -
[35]
The e-war based doomsday appeals to me. Especially if it was made to be a more regular effect (firing several times a minute) rather than a 'fire then get the hell out' weapon. A racial aspect would be better however, making each racial titan good for varying situations. With the amount of titans ingame now it should be possible to combine different effects into the perfect tactic.
Such a DD change would need to come with a defense boost of some kind, as the whole concept of nano-titans is silly. The biggest ships in the game should get the best defenses - not able to be ganked in 30 seconds and requiring interceptor fittings to get them off the field first beforehand.
I've never liked the idea of docking inside another ship. Perhaps I'm just too jaded with watching a simple idea like starbase jumpbridges suffer constant bugs for a year before being fixed, but I think something like that would just result in a plethora of broken code and Stuck petitions.
I do think there are better ways to make supercaps more viable frontline bases though. Fixing clone vat bays and making it easier to load spare ships would be a huge improvement. Supercaps could also be better fleet support ships in battle with appropriate new items.
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Eternum Pariah
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 11:33:00 -
[36]
only suitable solution to super cap = remove them.
but really, just make them moving pos's which take 1 hour to deploy and 24hours before it can move again, having the same rules apply to it as pos's
___________________________________________
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Vergil Kankuro
|
Posted - 2009.05.18 04:33:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Vergil Kankuro on 18/05/2009 04:34:12
Edited by: Vergil Kankuro on 18/05/2009 04:33:48
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
only suitable solution to super cap = remove them.
but really, just make them moving pos's which take 1 hour to deploy and 24hours before it can move again, having the same rules apply to it as pos's
No offense, but F@$% that! Such a nerf would not only leave supercapitals incredibly vulnerable/not cost effective in any way shape or form/ very much useless, but it would also make them dissapear from the game until the nerf was rolled back due to a sudden drop in subscriptions. The author's proposal, while a bit on the radical side, still brings up some issues that really need attention, first and foremost being the mothership. Supercapitals need to be MORE involved in fleet fights, instead of being useless sitting ducks for anybody who cares to cyno a dread in.
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Neena Valdi
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.05.18 06:30:00 -
[38]
Supporting
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Zostera
Minmatar
Honour Bound
Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.05.18 10:55:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Zostera on 18/05/2009 10:56:29
Edited by: Zostera on 18/05/2009 10:56:16
Not supported, for reasons outlined in Vuk Lau's proposal and pasted below.
Supporting Vuk Lau's Cap killer proposal for the Titan over a change to DD that leaves it as an unfocused weapon vs. smaller ships promotes more fighting for all piltots. This is especially the case in the early moments of battles when the attacking fleet has to jump in. I can't imagine anyone disagreeing that the fleet that jumps in isn't already at a significant disadvantage.
 Many of the attacking fleet will be out of range to shoot the opponents gathered in a snipe spot. The defenders on the other hand can concentrate all their fire.
Fleet jumping in cannot make effective use of remote reps to counter that for the same reason, the fleet is spread out.
The defending fleet has freedom to move and warp off unless a skilled Dictor pilot makes it through. The attacking fleet is bubbled regardless of player skill and often for 50km or from the gate.
Personally I don't see the difference between dieing to the actual DD as it currrently stands, and dieing a couple minutes later to a sniper fleet while I am:
Capped out in a bubble, not able to shoot or MWD, or if I fit an injector I can shoot but don't have the range to hit a dedicated sniping opponent. Giving up a mid-slot on a sniper for cap injection on every attacking ship is going to hand the defending fleet a huge tactical advantage in terms of it's ability to dictate range.
Worse still, sitting in a bubble with completely burned out heat damaged modules, not able to shoot, can't MWD. Turkey shooting ftl.
Granted at least the defending pilots get to shoot stuff, but that hardly addresses the fundamental imbalance that exists as a result of Titans being an AoE platform vs. sub-capital ships.
Zos
Vote Mazzilliu 09 CSM |
SauI Tigh
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Posted - 2009.06.17 00:26:00 -
[40]
Don't worry kenzoku you won't need titans where you are going. |
killerbitsch
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Posted - 2009.06.17 09:10:00 -
[41]
Edited by: killerbitsch on 17/06/2009 09:13:20
not supporting at all.
i've read several threads about supercap revisions, and supported all, even if the proposal wasn't that balanced that it could have been supported fully.
but this one is [edit:] complete crap (original said: the worst of all), and contains elements (heat dmg) that is utterly unsupportable. with ops changes a double or tripple DD would make the enemy fleet full of broken ships, quite a bit damaged also, no cap to run away, no useable mods, nothing. it's even more miserable then this days triple DD, where most noncap ships simply pop. but standing there with useless mods waiting to be popped, like a lamb waiting for the slaughter is anything, but an improvement to the game.
note again: this is the first time i'm not supporting such a proposal. and it's because of its details. |
killerbitsch
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Posted - 2009.06.17 09:12:00 -
[42]
Originally by: SauI Tigh
Don't worry kenzoku you won't need titans where you are going.
quoted for the lulz. :) |
iP0D
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Posted - 2009.06.17 12:14:00 -
[43]
not supported.
Doesn't do anything for how powerblocks deal with matters.
Doesn't change anything enough to put a tresholds against supercap blobs.
Doesn't give any room for making better use of secondary roles of the ship classes.
Seriously, this would work for PoTBS maybe. Check it out.
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