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Labslot blues :( How high is high enough?

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Astinius	Posted - 2004.08.13 01:47:00 - [1] Edited by: Astinius on 13/08/2004 01:53:02 I just lost my only labslot. I got lucky a few weeks ago and got one by random luck of checking every station. I lost it due to the (not in use so you lose it "feature"). If you do not know about it, in my case it was like this. I was researching a blueprint finished the same day the rent is due. The bpo finishes researching and 5 minutes later the rent is due, Mr. Duvolle looks at my slot and sees its not in use and shoots me a email "Ohhh, you are not using your slot so you lose it." I sprint to my shuttle, haul tail over to it (15 jumps) and of course some other lucky sob has got it. My question to the DEV's is, How long is it going to take before people start saying "Yikes, keeping these 14 slots is costing me to much, I better let some go." From what I have seen so far is that the cost is rising 50 isk a day. I figure it would have to get to 50k+ (Factory cost) for each slot before people would start saying the line above. For the sake of argument let us say it increases at 500 isk a day. Lets see 500/48k = 96 days sigh
Astinius	Posted - 2004.08.13 01:47:00 - [2] Edited by: Astinius on 13/08/2004 01:53:02 I just lost my only labslot. I got lucky a few weeks ago and got one by random luck of checking every station. I lost it due to the (not in use so you lose it "feature"). If you do not know about it, in my case it was like this. I was researching a blueprint finished the same day the rent is due. The bpo finishes researching and 5 minutes later the rent is due, Mr. Duvolle looks at my slot and sees its not in use and shoots me a email "Ohhh, you are not using your slot so you lose it." I sprint to my shuttle, haul tail over to it (15 jumps) and of course some other lucky sob has got it. My question to the DEV's is, How long is it going to take before people start saying "Yikes, keeping these 14 slots is costing me to much, I better let some go." From what I have seen so far is that the cost is rising 50 isk a day. I figure it would have to get to 50k+ (Factory cost) for each slot before people would start saying the line above. For the sake of argument let us say it increases at 500 isk a day. Lets see 500/48k = 96 days sigh
Astinius	Posted - 2004.08.13 03:11:00 - [3] I found another one. My 7th station had 1 available.
Astinius	Posted - 2004.08.13 03:11:00 - [4] I found another one. My 7th station had 1 available.
Shakul	Posted - 2004.08.13 04:35:00 - [5] Edited by: Shakul on 13/08/2004 04:40:36 You probably got both labslots due to someone else's bad luck with lab bugs, so the bug goes both ways. Eventually the people with stations full of labs will forget to pay the rent, or change the BP, or whatever, and someone else will pick it up. So i guess in that sense, the bugs/"features" are good, since they randomly redistribute labs. Relating to your original question, i think even if you charge 50k/lab/5days, most people wont unrent. It won't really affect the people with stations full of labs, who can research and copy enough to pay off their lab fees. Plus, if lab costs keep rising, BPC costs will go up accordingly. Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay.
Shakul	Posted - 2004.08.13 04:35:00 - [6] Edited by: Shakul on 13/08/2004 04:40:36 You probably got both labslots due to someone else's bad luck with lab bugs, so the bug goes both ways. Eventually the people with stations full of labs will forget to pay the rent, or change the BP, or whatever, and someone else will pick it up. So i guess in that sense, the bugs/"features" are good, since they randomly redistribute labs. Relating to your original question, i think even if you charge 50k/lab/5days, most people wont unrent. It won't really affect the people with stations full of labs, who can research and copy enough to pay off their lab fees. Plus, if lab costs keep rising, BPC costs will go up accordingly. Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay.
Veneth	Posted - 2004.08.13 04:40:00 - [7] least u found some.. I checked 48 stations the past few days. not a single opening.. CCP should just toss out more lab slots. would it really effect that much if more slots came out? it's not like ships cost less because factories are so available.
Veneth	Posted - 2004.08.13 04:40:00 - [8] least u found some.. I checked 48 stations the past few days. not a single opening.. CCP should just toss out more lab slots. would it really effect that much if more slots came out? it's not like ships cost less because factories are so available.
Mari Y'Tuk	Posted - 2004.08.13 09:44:00 - [9] or they could just be hit by the lab unrenting for no reason bug, i've lost 6 that way My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here.
Mari Y'Tuk	Posted - 2004.08.13 09:44:00 - [10] or they could just be hit by the lab unrenting for no reason bug, i've lost 6 that way My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here.

Darth Revanant	Posted - 2004.08.13 19:07:00 - [11] A corp mate and I took the entire day 2 days ago. We searched 82 stations from 1.0 to 0.1 over 5 different regions and didn't find one single lab slot available. We finally broke down last night and payed 20 mil for one because we had a bs bpo rotting away in corp hangar. The situation sux bad.
Darth Revanant	Posted - 2004.08.13 19:07:00 - [12] A corp mate and I took the entire day 2 days ago. We searched 82 stations from 1.0 to 0.1 over 5 different regions and didn't find one single lab slot available. We finally broke down last night and payed 20 mil for one because we had a bs bpo rotting away in corp hangar. The situation sux bad.
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.08.13 20:33:00 - [13] I think the system will work but i think your right its going to take longer then desired unless its something like 1k a day. Even then lab rates will only be + 365k a week after a year of rl time. 400k is nothing really.... LOL i dont think 50isk a day is ever going to cause a major change... Perhaps 10k a day is order~ That should seperate the men from the boys in two months. In two months it would be +600k a week... which is stilll. not that much if your enjoying your research slot~ Nope 50 is to low. We need 10k a day. Lets break this open and get it settled.
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.08.13 20:33:00 - [14] I think the system will work but i think your right its going to take longer then desired unless its something like 1k a day. Even then lab rates will only be + 365k a week after a year of rl time. 400k is nothing really.... LOL i dont think 50isk a day is ever going to cause a major change... Perhaps 10k a day is order~ That should seperate the men from the boys in two months. In two months it would be +600k a week... which is stilll. not that much if your enjoying your research slot~ Nope 50 is to low. We need 10k a day. Lets break this open and get it settled.
ThunderBolt	Posted - 2004.08.13 21:53:00 - [15] Edited by: ThunderBolt on 13/08/2004 21:55:11 Originally by: Qutsemnie I think the system will work but i think your right its going to take longer then desired unless its something like 1k a day. Even then lab rates will only be + 365k a week after a year of rl time. 400k is nothing really.... LOL i dont think 50isk a day is ever going to cause a major change... Perhaps 10k a day is order~ That should seperate the men from the boys in two months. In two months it would be +600k a week... which is stilll. not that much if your enjoying your research slot~ Nope 50 is to low. We need 10k a day. Lets break this open and get it settled. It's not 50, it's 5% per day from current rent. This means each day increasing will be bigger, but for labs it just too small. Rent for labs hits 1 million only after all slots are used for 146 days. For factories (with basic price 40000) 1 million rent will be achieved in 70 days.
ThunderBolt	Posted - 2004.08.13 21:53:00 - [16] Edited by: ThunderBolt on 13/08/2004 21:55:11 Originally by: Qutsemnie I think the system will work but i think your right its going to take longer then desired unless its something like 1k a day. Even then lab rates will only be + 365k a week after a year of rl time. 400k is nothing really.... LOL i dont think 50isk a day is ever going to cause a major change... Perhaps 10k a day is order~ That should seperate the men from the boys in two months. In two months it would be +600k a week... which is stilll. not that much if your enjoying your research slot~ Nope 50 is to low. We need 10k a day. Lets break this open and get it settled. It's not 50, it's 5% per day from current rent. This means each day increasing will be bigger, but for labs it just too small. Rent for labs hits 1 million only after all slots are used for 146 days. For factories (with basic price 40000) 1 million rent will be achieved in 70 days.
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.08.13 22:18:00 - [17] ok thats better.
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.08.13 22:18:00 - [18] ok thats better.
Steel Optik	Posted - 2004.08.14 15:31:00 - [19] wont make any diffrence except rich corps will be the only ones able to afford them and the price of bp copies will skyrocket and a new guy could never afford to get into the bpcopy game The game has gone from 3000 accounts to now alts about 100000 characters labs havent increased sooner mobile reserch statons com online the better
Steel Optik	Posted - 2004.08.14 15:31:00 - [20] wont make any diffrence except rich corps will be the only ones able to afford them and the price of bp copies will skyrocket and a new guy could never afford to get into the bpcopy game The game has gone from 3000 accounts to now alts about 100000 characters labs havent increased sooner mobile reserch statons com online the better

British Knights	Posted - 2004.08.15 05:30:00 - [21] It's 5% per week (or 5 days if we want to be really technical), not per day. Week 1: 1000 isk Week 2: 1050 isk Week 3: 1102 isk Week 4: 1157 isk It's going to take a long time before that gets very expensive.
British Knights	Posted - 2004.08.15 05:30:00 - [22] It's 5% per week (or 5 days if we want to be really technical), not per day. Week 1: 1000 isk Week 2: 1050 isk Week 3: 1102 isk Week 4: 1157 isk It's going to take a long time before that gets very expensive.
101110101101	Posted - 2004.08.15 06:04:00 - [23] Originally by: British Knights It's 5% per week (or 5 days if we want to be really technical), not per day. Week 1: 1000 isk Week 2: 1050 isk Week 3: 1102 isk Week 4: 1157 isk It's going to take a long time before that gets very expensive. Let's define "very expensive" shall we... 10000 isk per rental period for Lab Slots isn't even all that "expensive" as compared to losing a lab slot then having to find another. Personally it wouldn't bother me to have to cough up say 1 million isk per day to rent all my lab slots cuz I can easily make 1 million isk per day just doing L3 Agent Kill Missions with very little effort. Assuming I have something like 20 Lab Slots (hypothetical) I would be willing to pay (3000000 / 20) = 150000 per slot per rental period (typically 3 days rental period for Lab Slots). A 5% increase per rental period would take roughly 143 rental periods (that's 429 days) before Lab Slot Rent would cost more than 1 million per day to keep 20 Lab Slots. Assuming I had 3 EVE accounts with 3 alts each and 6 Lab Slots per alt then I would be able to keep (6 * 3 * 3 = 54 Lab Slots) so my 1 million isk per day Lab Rental budget would mean I would be keeping all 54 Lab Slots 52 Rental Periods or 156 days before I'd even dream about giving them up. In real terms I could absord the cost as high as 3 million isk per day before breaking a sweat which means I'd be keeping my Lab Slots on the order of (156 * 3 = 468 days). The net effect being that it doesn't matter to me how much isk I waste on keeping Lab Slots since they are in fact priceless - at least to me. If you factor in what I can make selling BPC's well let's just say I won't be giving up any of my Lab Slots anytime soon... BPC's might become more pricey - have to wait to see if that happens throughout EVE.
101110101101	Posted - 2004.08.15 06:04:00 - [24] Originally by: British Knights It's 5% per week (or 5 days if we want to be really technical), not per day. Week 1: 1000 isk Week 2: 1050 isk Week 3: 1102 isk Week 4: 1157 isk It's going to take a long time before that gets very expensive. Let's define "very expensive" shall we... 10000 isk per rental period for Lab Slots isn't even all that "expensive" as compared to losing a lab slot then having to find another. Personally it wouldn't bother me to have to cough up say 1 million isk per day to rent all my lab slots cuz I can easily make 1 million isk per day just doing L3 Agent Kill Missions with very little effort. Assuming I have something like 20 Lab Slots (hypothetical) I would be willing to pay (3000000 / 20) = 150000 per slot per rental period (typically 3 days rental period for Lab Slots). A 5% increase per rental period would take roughly 143 rental periods (that's 429 days) before Lab Slot Rent would cost more than 1 million per day to keep 20 Lab Slots. Assuming I had 3 EVE accounts with 3 alts each and 6 Lab Slots per alt then I would be able to keep (6 * 3 * 3 = 54 Lab Slots) so my 1 million isk per day Lab Rental budget would mean I would be keeping all 54 Lab Slots 52 Rental Periods or 156 days before I'd even dream about giving them up. In real terms I could absord the cost as high as 3 million isk per day before breaking a sweat which means I'd be keeping my Lab Slots on the order of (156 * 3 = 468 days). The net effect being that it doesn't matter to me how much isk I waste on keeping Lab Slots since they are in fact priceless - at least to me. If you factor in what I can make selling BPC's well let's just say I won't be giving up any of my Lab Slots anytime soon... BPC's might become more pricey - have to wait to see if that happens throughout EVE.
Caramba789	Posted - 2004.08.15 14:28:00 - [25] It's a laugh. I run with my main and alt chars 22 lab slots in one station. I make ... a week with the bpc's rolling out every hour. I have all slots synchronized. On the calander every 5th day marked. Hell I pay the price and rent in time rofl. To prevent labs unrenting there is a good workaround. To prevent the lab prices going up to much there is a good workaround. I won't get to technical as the mighty nerf bat might take a swing reading along.. Puting everything in escrow is hours of hard work and a 36 jump tour in a noob ship. Managing the lab is hard work too. I often get confused with all those same coloured bpo and bpc's floating around but have my system going now. Unless they add slots I think you have to keep flying till you get lucky
Caramba789	Posted - 2004.08.15 14:28:00 - [26] It's a laugh. I run with my main and alt chars 22 lab slots in one station. I make ... a week with the bpc's rolling out every hour. I have all slots synchronized. On the calander every 5th day marked. Hell I pay the price and rent in time rofl. To prevent labs unrenting there is a good workaround. To prevent the lab prices going up to much there is a good workaround. I won't get to technical as the mighty nerf bat might take a swing reading along.. Puting everything in escrow is hours of hard work and a 36 jump tour in a noob ship. Managing the lab is hard work too. I often get confused with all those same coloured bpo and bpc's floating around but have my system going now. Unless they add slots I think you have to keep flying till you get lucky
ThunderBolt	Posted - 2004.08.16 10:46:00 - [27] Edited by: ThunderBolt on 16/08/2004 10:49:09 Originally by: British Knights It's 5% per week (or 5 days if we want to be really technical), not per day. Week 1: 1000 isk Week 2: 1050 isk Week 3: 1102 isk Week 4: 1157 isk It's going to take a long time before that gets very expensive. 5% per day ! First check it then say it If all slots are used just press Rent Slot and you will see current price. This way you can see it is 5% per day.
ThunderBolt	Posted - 2004.08.16 10:46:00 - [28] Edited by: ThunderBolt on 16/08/2004 10:49:09 Originally by: British Knights It's 5% per week (or 5 days if we want to be really technical), not per day. Week 1: 1000 isk Week 2: 1050 isk Week 3: 1102 isk Week 4: 1157 isk It's going to take a long time before that gets very expensive. 5% per day ! First check it then say it If all slots are used just press Rent Slot and you will see current price. This way you can see it is 5% per day.
Trader Klyde	Posted - 2004.08.16 14:45:00 - [29] Bumping the prices isn't going to help wth the shortage, with most builders / researchers as they can afford the prices, and in most cases will just pass the increases along to the customer. The best solution is to double the number of labs in each station, from 32 to 64. BP's take quite a bit of time to reasearch, which is why labs are in short supply. A BP researcher that wants to sell BPc's has to tie up a slot for quite a while in order to get the BPo into good ME/PE for making good BPc's. If he is in business to make money, he requires several slots. As I said before, the rising costs will be passed on to the customer, so that aspect means little. With more slots available, there is added availability for others to join the ranks in using lab slots. The more researchers making prints, the less dominated the marketplace becomes by the few that have dozens of slots now. I myself only have 1 slot, it's enough for me. ________________________________________________ From deep in space where nobody hears my screams... Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style.
Trader Klyde	Posted - 2004.08.16 14:45:00 - [30] Bumping the prices isn't going to help wth the shortage, with most builders / researchers as they can afford the prices, and in most cases will just pass the increases along to the customer. The best solution is to double the number of labs in each station, from 32 to 64. BP's take quite a bit of time to reasearch, which is why labs are in short supply. A BP researcher that wants to sell BPc's has to tie up a slot for quite a while in order to get the BPo into good ME/PE for making good BPc's. If he is in business to make money, he requires several slots. As I said before, the rising costs will be passed on to the customer, so that aspect means little. With more slots available, there is added availability for others to join the ranks in using lab slots. The more researchers making prints, the less dominated the marketplace becomes by the few that have dozens of slots now. I myself only have 1 slot, it's enough for me. ________________________________________________ From deep in space where nobody hears my screams... Sometimes in fear, sometimes in anger, mostly just my singing style.



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