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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:42:00 -
[1]
If any toon is in a player corp all toons from that account should be in that player corp. Specifically with the eye to warfare lets look at what problems this fixes.
1) Alt transporting goods through empire space. With a renewed focus on war in empire space coming in shiva the ability to transport goods with impunidity is unfair, unrealistic, and detracts from game play. If all your alts were forced into one corp then you wouldnt be able to transfer goods while avoiding the war.
2) Alt mining to avoid your aggressive acts on your main. Alt miners are allowed to generate wealth without being accountable for the aggressive acts of their mains. Again if the alt was forced into the same player corp then thats not possible.
3) Spying. If all your toons are forced into one corp then its impossible to spy without creating a new payed for account.
4) Alt corps theft. Again not possible without another account.
5) Alt corp warfare. Alt corp warfare is bad because its one sided. The alt corp gets to harass without any significant impact to the main corp. This underminds the flow of corp warfare.
Why is this idea better then just not allowing alts? You still get to multitask and task out your account. You just dont get to avoid your mains actions or consequences in the process.
Why is this idea reasonable in the face of roleplay? Ask yourself this how much roleplay is in using your alts to do the bidding of your main?
As for myself ive already started using alts to haul in empire to avoid warfare. Im sure soon ill be alt mining to avoid warfare. None of these things are right imo.
And lastly a neccesary rule condition would be:
If any toon is in a player corp all the toons are in the player corp. If any toon is out of a player corp then the toons can revert to their different npc corps.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:42:00 -
[2]
If any toon is in a player corp all toons from that account should be in that player corp. Specifically with the eye to warfare lets look at what problems this fixes.
1) Alt transporting goods through empire space. With a renewed focus on war in empire space coming in shiva the ability to transport goods with impunidity is unfair, unrealistic, and detracts from game play. If all your alts were forced into one corp then you wouldnt be able to transfer goods while avoiding the war.
2) Alt mining to avoid your aggressive acts on your main. Alt miners are allowed to generate wealth without being accountable for the aggressive acts of their mains. Again if the alt was forced into the same player corp then thats not possible.
3) Spying. If all your toons are forced into one corp then its impossible to spy without creating a new payed for account.
4) Alt corps theft. Again not possible without another account.
5) Alt corp warfare. Alt corp warfare is bad because its one sided. The alt corp gets to harass without any significant impact to the main corp. This underminds the flow of corp warfare.
Why is this idea better then just not allowing alts? You still get to multitask and task out your account. You just dont get to avoid your mains actions or consequences in the process.
Why is this idea reasonable in the face of roleplay? Ask yourself this how much roleplay is in using your alts to do the bidding of your main?
As for myself ive already started using alts to haul in empire to avoid warfare. Im sure soon ill be alt mining to avoid warfare. None of these things are right imo.
And lastly a neccesary rule condition would be:
If any toon is in a player corp all the toons are in the player corp. If any toon is out of a player corp then the toons can revert to their different npc corps.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.13 12:03:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 13/08/2004 12:17:25
ok ill meet the naysayers half way. In regards to upcoming alliance warfare before any corp can join an alliance all its members must have all toons in the same corp. (obviously a purge feature and an invite account feature would have to be added to let corps get up to speed for alliance membership)
So it would be an alliance only rule. No corp with alliance power would be able to use alts to avoid conflict and no corp with alliance power would be able to use alts to make conflict.
Since you cant war on a corp in alliance without being in alliance corps in alliance would be shielded from alt corp nonsense for giving up the right to do alt work arounds.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.13 12:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 13/08/2004 12:17:25
ok ill meet the naysayers half way. In regards to upcoming alliance warfare before any corp can join an alliance all its members must have all toons in the same corp. (obviously a purge feature and an invite account feature would have to be added to let corps get up to speed for alliance membership)
So it would be an alliance only rule. No corp with alliance power would be able to use alts to avoid conflict and no corp with alliance power would be able to use alts to make conflict.
Since you cant war on a corp in alliance without being in alliance corps in alliance would be shielded from alt corp nonsense for giving up the right to do alt work arounds.
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.08.13 12:31:00 -
[5]
This sounds nice but isn't as good as this one: lose alts altogether and start charging for every character played.
1 account = up to three characters: 10, 17, and 22 Euro respectively. Better deals for more characters, obviously...
Seriously - alts are out of freaking control in empire wars... 
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Latex Mistress
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Posted - 2004.08.13 12:31:00 -
[6]
This sounds nice but isn't as good as this one: lose alts altogether and start charging for every character played.
1 account = up to three characters: 10, 17, and 22 Euro respectively. Better deals for more characters, obviously...
Seriously - alts are out of freaking control in empire wars...
If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
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Friction
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Posted - 2004.08.14 03:10:00 -
[7]
Alts are out of control in every aspect of the game. lose all alts, this will free up lab slots, bogus corps, and as mentioned above, spies, and safe mining/transporting. Alts are used countlessly on the market, and escrow to try and screw people over, so eliminate alts, and the game will run much smoother, and be mroe realistic.
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Friction
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Posted - 2004.08.14 03:10:00 -
[8]
Alts are out of control in every aspect of the game. lose all alts, this will free up lab slots, bogus corps, and as mentioned above, spies, and safe mining/transporting. Alts are used countlessly on the market, and escrow to try and screw people over, so eliminate alts, and the game will run much smoother, and be mroe realistic.
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Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.08.14 14:07:00 -
[9]
you cant just loose alts now :( too many have alts trained for various things...
but, i agree 100% that there should be some linkage between alts.. having them in the same corp is a great idea :)
Interstellat Cartographic League
- Cen Varis |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.08.14 14:07:00 -
[10]
you cant just loose alts now :( too many have alts trained for various things...
but, i agree 100% that there should be some linkage between alts.. having them in the same corp is a great idea :)
Interstellat Cartographic League
- Cen Varis |
Barth3zzzNL
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Posted - 2004.08.14 16:20:00 -
[11]
Removing alts would screw stuff up quite a bit, a good number of people use alts for diffrent parts of the game. 1 Alt for Combat, 1 alt For mining, etc.
They all have skills trained, standing gained.
Theyre fine as it is, they should just limit forum posting to the first char on the account.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Barth3zzzNL
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Posted - 2004.08.14 16:20:00 -
[12]
Removing alts would screw stuff up quite a bit, a good number of people use alts for diffrent parts of the game. 1 Alt for Combat, 1 alt For mining, etc.
They all have skills trained, standing gained.
Theyre fine as it is, they should just limit forum posting to the first char on the account.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 16:34:00 -
[13]
The original post isnt about getting rid of alts its about tidying up a loose end that will make the alliance game play less intense.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 16:34:00 -
[14]
The original post isnt about getting rid of alts its about tidying up a loose end that will make the alliance game play less intense.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 18:33:00 -
[15]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=101961
Alt scanning for info. Another reason to force an account all into one PC corp before setting off into this alliance empire warfare theme.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 18:33:00 -
[16]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=101961
Alt scanning for info. Another reason to force an account all into one PC corp before setting off into this alliance empire warfare theme.
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Shinji Ikari
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Posted - 2004.08.14 19:27:00 -
[17]
there is no need for alts if they were all forced into the same corp. lets just say it happend ok...
well there would be no more spying no more need for a diffrent char for minning/fighting/building you would just have your main charter do it all. so them whats the point of having other chars, they could get rid of them.
ok well if they got rid of them all just like FF 11 only having one char per account they could lessen the price of each account b/c more ppl could afford more accounts, creating the problem of people spying with diffrent accounts, it would just coast them just a lilbit more money.
~~God is in his heaven all's right with the world~~ |
Shinji Ikari
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Posted - 2004.08.14 19:27:00 -
[18]
there is no need for alts if they were all forced into the same corp. lets just say it happend ok...
well there would be no more spying no more need for a diffrent char for minning/fighting/building you would just have your main charter do it all. so them whats the point of having other chars, they could get rid of them.
ok well if they got rid of them all just like FF 11 only having one char per account they could lessen the price of each account b/c more ppl could afford more accounts, creating the problem of people spying with diffrent accounts, it would just coast them just a lilbit more money.
~~God is in his heaven all's right with the world~~ |
Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 19:36:00 -
[19]
If you get rid of them you punish those people that have semipowerful alts; they loose their points. Thats not really fair at all. However forcing them to volunteer to move them all to one corp if they want to play in an alliance doesnt loose their multitasking alts it just makes them play the empire alliance game to the fullest.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 19:36:00 -
[20]
If you get rid of them you punish those people that have semipowerful alts; they loose their points. Thats not really fair at all. However forcing them to volunteer to move them all to one corp if they want to play in an alliance doesnt loose their multitasking alts it just makes them play the empire alliance game to the fullest.
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pshepherd
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Posted - 2004.08.14 20:06:00 -
[21]
Edited by: pshepherd on 14/08/2004 20:08:26
what about 2 people sharing one account?
What if one of these people want to be a pirate (so join a pirate corp) and the other one wants to me a miner? (and joins a mining corp).
obviously they won't be as skilled as they could be... but they could still both enjoy the game with limited skills.
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pshepherd
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Posted - 2004.08.14 20:06:00 -
[22]
Edited by: pshepherd on 14/08/2004 20:08:26
what about 2 people sharing one account?
What if one of these people want to be a pirate (so join a pirate corp) and the other one wants to me a miner? (and joins a mining corp).
obviously they won't be as skilled as they could be... but they could still both enjoy the game with limited skills.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 20:44:00 -
[23]
I considered that. Both can still be in corps but they cant participate in alliance corps unless they are willing to commit at the account level.
Its not perfect but continuing to design the game towards player based factions then letting players aggressively involved in those faction conflicts avoid the conflict when it doesnt suit them weakens the overall gameplay.
The question you have to ask yourself is are you willing to weaken the entire game in order to protect the few individuals sharing accounts? I prefer the best game possible.
Avoiding a positive change cause its not friendly to account sharers is just aversion to risk taking to the point of tepidness.
But allow me to reinterate that I ammended the idea to only apply to corps in the new alliance rules so all the existing toons couldnt continue to play the game they have played however if they want to step up to the alliance conflicts they are going to have to change.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 20:44:00 -
[24]
I considered that. Both can still be in corps but they cant participate in alliance corps unless they are willing to commit at the account level.
Its not perfect but continuing to design the game towards player based factions then letting players aggressively involved in those faction conflicts avoid the conflict when it doesnt suit them weakens the overall gameplay.
The question you have to ask yourself is are you willing to weaken the entire game in order to protect the few individuals sharing accounts? I prefer the best game possible.
Avoiding a positive change cause its not friendly to account sharers is just aversion to risk taking to the point of tepidness.
But allow me to reinterate that I ammended the idea to only apply to corps in the new alliance rules so all the existing toons couldnt continue to play the game they have played however if they want to step up to the alliance conflicts they are going to have to change.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:05:00 -
[25]
In case anyone is wondering how you would actually physically pull off the interface I imagine this.
The corp would get three new abilities:
1) The ability to "Invite Account" which invites the account associated with the player without knowing the toons unless the invite is accepted.
2) The ability to "Invite All Member Accounts" which invites the accounts associated with all members of the current corp.
3) The ability to "Purge All non Member Accounts" which kicks out all members that havent accepted an account invite.
Now when you join an alliance before letting you into the alliance it checks to see if all your members are account level invites. If your corp isnt it tells you so and invites you to purge after suggesting doing an invite all accounts and waiting an acceptable amount of time.
Note that the CEO can mass email all semi long term AFKrs a message saying we are moving to an alliance if you got purged then send me a convo and ill get you invited.
Now once that is done and you reapply for alliance membership the ability to do any invites besides an account level invite is lost for a corp as long as it stays in an alliance.
The advantages is that only alliances can declare war on alliances (if i read shiva right) so all the alliance conflicts are waged at the same total level. (no avoiding the meat and potatoes of the strategic struggle.)
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:05:00 -
[26]
In case anyone is wondering how you would actually physically pull off the interface I imagine this.
The corp would get three new abilities:
1) The ability to "Invite Account" which invites the account associated with the player without knowing the toons unless the invite is accepted.
2) The ability to "Invite All Member Accounts" which invites the accounts associated with all members of the current corp.
3) The ability to "Purge All non Member Accounts" which kicks out all members that havent accepted an account invite.
Now when you join an alliance before letting you into the alliance it checks to see if all your members are account level invites. If your corp isnt it tells you so and invites you to purge after suggesting doing an invite all accounts and waiting an acceptable amount of time.
Note that the CEO can mass email all semi long term AFKrs a message saying we are moving to an alliance if you got purged then send me a convo and ill get you invited.
Now once that is done and you reapply for alliance membership the ability to do any invites besides an account level invite is lost for a corp as long as it stays in an alliance.
The advantages is that only alliances can declare war on alliances (if i read shiva right) so all the alliance conflicts are waged at the same total level. (no avoiding the meat and potatoes of the strategic struggle.)
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Barth3zzzNL
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:35:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Barth3zzzNL on 14/08/2004 21:36:52
Woudlnt it be easier to simply list someone alts on all their char profiles?
That way all alts will be exposed and youll know why spies/scouts are.
All we need then is special n00b corps you can delceare war on. All 2nd/3rd chars will start in this one.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Barth3zzzNL
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:35:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Barth3zzzNL on 14/08/2004 21:36:52
Woudlnt it be easier to simply list someone alts on all their char profiles?
That way all alts will be exposed and youll know why spies/scouts are.
All we need then is special n00b corps you can delceare war on. All 2nd/3rd chars will start in this one.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 22:22:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 14/08/2004 22:30:17
It would help but note that it still allows people to operate without the consequences of their mains or with consequences to their mains in empire space.
If the new alliances rules are intended to help control empire space then loopholes need to be closed to strengthen the game.
No alt mining/no alt scouting/no alt cargo transfers/no alt warring without being as much of a target as your main makes yourself.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.14 22:22:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 14/08/2004 22:30:17
It would help but note that it still allows people to operate without the consequences of their mains or with consequences to their mains in empire space.
If the new alliances rules are intended to help control empire space then loopholes need to be closed to strengthen the game.
No alt mining/no alt scouting/no alt cargo transfers/no alt warring without being as much of a target as your main makes yourself.
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