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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.03.08 13:45:00 -
[1]
I wonder, why 99% hulks mining plagioclase when there are big amounts of veldspar over the belt.
And veldspar ir, afaik, the most profitable low-end ore.
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Mandorr Kzrell
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Posted - 2009.03.08 14:31:00 -
[2]
Macros. Ignorant people. Manufacturers who think they're better off mining what they need instead of what pays more and buying what they need.
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Olga Mokroff
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.03.08 14:46:00 -
[3]
assumptions:
a) after refining plag, transporting refined minerals are a lot easier (less volume).
b) stupid macros
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.03.08 17:43:00 -
[4]
When I mine ore, I just use T1s and empty the belt; but that's more for semi-afk stuff. Don't know why someone would actively target something that pays less.
 Originally by: CCP Whisper
Local chat in known 0.0, low sec and empire space will remain as it is today, in all it's insta-intel giving, afk cloaker panic inducing, jita trade spamming glory.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.08 18:03:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Fulbert on 08/03/2009 18:03:38
3 m¦ of veldspar = 1 m¦ of tritanium
That's not easy to manage... especially when your hulk eats 1800+ m3/min...
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Fulbert
Peon |
spyor
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Posted - 2009.03.08 19:39:00 -
[6]
mining to collate enough to build something big sometimes requires a specific way of doing, so one week it may be pyroxeres, then plag, then scordite, then veld! just depends on the miners plan of the day!
or macros
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Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: spyor
mining to collate enough to build something big sometimes requires a specific way of doing, so one week it may be pyroxeres, then plag, then scordite, then veld! just depends on the miners plan of the day!
or macros
OR, you could just mine veldpsar all day everyday, and buy what you need to build what ever big it is that day, and have some profit over mining what you need.
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
Psi Draconis
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ms Delerium
I wonder, why 99% hulks mining plagioclase when there are big amounts of veldspar over the belt.
And veldspar ir, afaik, the most profitable low-end ore.
Stupid people. About 99% of the people are stupid. CCP clearly has success with this world simulation, humans are as stupid in eve than they are in real life.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.08 23:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier
Originally by: spyor
mining to collate enough to build something big sometimes requires a specific way of doing, so one week it may be pyroxeres, then plag, then scordite, then veld! just depends on the miners plan of the day!
or macros
OR, you could just mine veldpsar all day everyday, and buy what you need to build what ever big it is that day, and have some profit over mining what you need.
Until everyone is only mining veld then where are the other minerals going to come from to buy? Drone regions have some effect on supply but thats moastly the high end low volume stuff like zyd that can easily be transported in bulk. If the man want to mine other stuff than veld then let him. 
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 00:58:00 -
[10]
The question should be "Why is tritanium the most profitable mineral in empire?"
Well let's see it's easy to mine so everyone CAN mine it. It's in fairly good quantities in most belts, so it's not like you have to juggle the lasers all the time, when you mine veldspar and it's two variations you know EXACTLY what you're going to get and that is 'a lot' of tritanium which is at least in the region I'm in, worth more than pyerite.
That answers the question "why is veldspar mined all the time?" Now to answer the real question.
Veldspar can account for 20-25% of the mineral requirements for t1 ships, of all races, so there is a constantly high demand for it. Consider one seventh (excluding Morphite and the beginner ore) of the minerals in game accounts for let's say 25% of the total mineral amount to build a cruiser.
That leaves the six other minerals each sharing 75% of the remainder. Now pyerite can be obtained quite well from other sources not just scordite, so that too can be easier to mine for, and on average the numbers are no where near as high as the mineral volume for tritanium, in some cases it's HALF.
I haven't scrunched the numbers from every empire region but in the region I'm located having tritanium be purchased AT 4isk/unit and being sold even higher than that is ludicrous, however the demand is there and we the players can not keep up with demand.
Demand that is of course down to CCP and their blueprint requirements. If less tritanium was required and a sharing of the reduction was spread to other minerals it would create the balanced isk/unit that was there around two - three years ago.
The price inflation has been slow though so maybe tritanium as a unit should be viewed as being worth between 4-5 isk per unit and pyerite more than that.
Until the items that players build require less tritanium though, I can't see the price falling, or sadly remaining steady as the mineral traders HAVE to keep putting their orders up higher and higher so they can maintain the incoming mineral units that they need to continue their production.
Sorry for the wall of text I just had to get it off my chest. I only hope that the price can stabalise and allow the trading and movement of other empire ore's and that we can all get back on track. Some reason I don't believe so.
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Life is about memories the more the better.
Eve Online Batch Calculator |
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Ted Nguyen
Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
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Posted - 2009.03.09 03:34:00 -
[11]
What were the responses when you asked them why they were mining plagioclase?
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Psi Draconis
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
The question should be "Why is tritanium the most profitable mineral in empire?"
Stackless I/O.
That's your answer.
Before massive fights ended up nod crashing. Now they can run them through. Mineral need for battleship class ships and capital class ships is massive.
And because the tritanium is most needed mineral in these ships, the demand is pushing the price up.
Sidrat Flush makes a mistake down there, a bad mistake.
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
Demand that is of course down to CCP and their blueprint requirements. If less tritanium was required and a sharing of the reduction was spread to other minerals it would create the balanced isk/unit that was there around two - three years ago.
That's how market works, supply meets the demand. Balanced isk/unit? Wth are you talking about?
I would like to have the balanced Hulk prices what they were few years ago, do you remember, 650 M ISK each? I made some ISK back then with them.
There isn't anything wrong tritanium price being around 4 isk pu. For example 0.0 is filled with tritanium, low sec is filled with it too. Nobody is mining it. I know entities who are making tens of billions in a month now by escorting freighters to empire full of compressed tritanium.
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Nimathos
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Posted - 2009.03.09 12:03:00 -
[13]
All these complicated answers to just one question.
Why are all the hulks mining plagioclase ?
Simple! Our corporation (See EveWiki: Swarm of Locusts) mines in lowsec to produce all sorts of things.
We have enough veldspar, scordite, omber, hedbergite, except the minerals that give Mexallon.
Note: Plagioclase gives 256 Mexallon, 256 tritanium, 512 pyerite.
This is why we often head up in highsec to do mining missions ( or maybe for other corps in public belts) to farm our mexallon and have it transported down to 0.0 again.
And i dont believe that we are the only corp that needs to get back up in highsec to mine mexallon.
Amen. |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.09 13:57:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Psi Draconis
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
The question should be "Why is tritanium the most profitable mineral in empire?"
Stackless I/O.
That's your answer.
Before massive fights ended up nod crashing. Now they can run them through. Mineral need for battleship class ships and capital class ships is massive.
And because the tritanium is most needed mineral in these ships, the demand is pushing the price up.
Sidrat Flush makes a mistake down there, a bad mistake.
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
Demand that is of course down to CCP and their blueprint requirements. If less tritanium was required and a sharing of the reduction was spread to other minerals it would create the balanced isk/unit that was there around two - three years ago.
That's how market works, supply meets the demand. Balanced isk/unit? Wth are you talking about?
I would like to have the balanced Hulk prices what they were few years ago, do you remember, 650 M ISK each? I made some ISK back then with them.
There isn't anything wrong tritanium price being around 4 isk pu. For example 0.0 is filled with tritanium, low sec is filled with it too. Nobody is mining it. I know entities who are making tens of billions in a month now by escorting freighters to empire full of compressed tritanium.
You make a good point in that I didn't qualify the above statement with more explanation. To be honest after the third paragraph I was thinking W.of.T mode on and people won't read it so I skimped.
Anyway, I fully understand that there is supply and demand, also that there's nothing inherintly wrong with paying 4.0+ isk/unit for tritanium. HOWEVER when pyerite is cheaper than tritanium, and veldspar is worth more isk per hour mining it than any other high sec ore it surely means something is out of kilter, and it's not a short term trend, it's been happening for a while now and yes it is because fleet fights have become more stable so more ships are being lost which have to be replaced and this, as you rightly said, requires huge amounts of tritanium to recover.
The balance I had in mind when writing it was the "traditional" balance of mineral 'influence', mexallon, iso, nocx should be worth more than pyerite which in turn SHOULD be worth more than tritanium.
But it's not.
It's not 'traditionaly balanced' (like a gradual gradient on the upward curve from tritanium to morphite) - and this is because that CCP's numbers for tritanium requirements are TOO HIGH.
Like I said one seventh of the minerals can account for 25% of the ships value, which puts it at roughly the same amount for the high ends such as mega and zydrine.
I've just run the numbers for two ships, small sample collection I know, but still.
Maelstrom ME 30.
Tritanium accounts for 75% of the total minerals. 75% of the price of that ship is for Tritanium alone. That's staggering. Pyerite accounts for a measly 19% of the minerals required.
Here's another
Brutix ME 30.
Tritanium 76% and pyerite 14%.
Can you argue that CCP has messed up the numbers somewhat on having one type of mineral that accounts for 75% of the ships mineral count (and of course it's value).
I am not under the illusion that if the numbers were tweaked and trit was 50% and pye was bumbed up to 25-30% that the price of trit would drop. It wouldn't, but we'd all be able to make even more ships than we do now and the price would be stable.
Having just run the numbers I can't believe I was so far out than before, I knew trit requirement was high but never realised it was as high as that.
From these numbers alone, like other people have stated, mining veldspar and WHEN or IF you end up with excess, selling the units to purchase the other types is a very good idea indeed.
--------------------------
Life is about memories the more the better.
Eve Online Batch Calculator |
Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
The question should be "Why is tritanium the most profitable mineral in empire?"
The answer is Capital Ships.
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<Q> QUANT Hegemony
A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
Item Database
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:38:00 -
[16]
it depends
if there is Veld in the belt
AFK mining with a Maxed out cargo hauler so they pick the bigest roid in range reguardless of what it is
some people just like to strip out belts
if there is veld in other belts but not that one, it could just be they gave up looking
you also have the very real issue of people in 0.0 needing things like mexalon so they come up here to buy, but all too often there buys are not able to meet their internal demand so they clone jump enough miners to empire and start sucking down roids while the freighter makes its run to there op to pick up
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:10:00 -
[17]
Cause I was all out of Veld Crystals and had alot of Plag's laying around
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RD Hooker
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:08:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Manufacturers who think they're better off mining what they need instead of what pays more and buying what they need.
Dunno about you, but being one of the people who sells that mexallon it's a very nice money maker. Same for isogen.
It's also useful for my own in-corp production.
Also, c*cks.
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Ronha Ottrit
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:42:00 -
[19]
I mine it because it's there and I strip all the belt.
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Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2009.03.09 23:58:00 -
[20]
Originally by: RD Hooker
Quote:
Manufacturers who think they're better off mining what they need instead of what pays more and buying what they need.
Dunno about you, but being one of the people who sells that mexallon it's a very nice money maker. Same for isogen.
It's also useful for my own in-corp production.
Also, c*cks.
Yeah no doubt, but you'd still make more mining just vedlspar anyway.
Veldspar & trit > pyrox or what ever with mex in isk per hour.
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
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Gerard Deneth
Caldari
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2009.03.10 01:46:00 -
[21]
But at the same point, compare RL resource consumption to Trit usage. Let's say you're building a small building, a two story office complex. What's the one item you're going to use the most of in raw numbers. Concrete. It probably sucks up over 50% of your total resource usage by volume. The larger you build, the higher that percentage goes up I'm willing to bet.
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The Game's always changing under your feet; don't start moaning when you get a toe caught in the gears. |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.03.10 15:44:00 -
[22]
Well someone got to mine it. . .
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Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Elora Danzik
Caldari
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.10 17:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
Maelstrom ME 30.
Tritanium accounts for 75% of the total minerals. 75% of the price of that ship is for Tritanium alone. That's staggering. Pyerite accounts for a measly 19% of the minerals required.
Here's another
Brutix ME 30.
Tritanium 76% and pyerite 14%.
Can you argue that CCP has messed up the numbers somewhat on having one type of mineral that accounts for 75% of the ships mineral count (and of course it's value).
I am not under the illusion that if the numbers were tweaked and trit was 50% and pye was bumbed up to 25-30% that the price of trit would drop. It wouldn't, but we'd all be able to make even more ships than we do now and the price would be stable.
Having just run the numbers I can't believe I was so far out than before, I knew trit requirement was high but never realised it was as high as that.
From these numbers alone, like other people have stated, mining veldspar and WHEN or IF you end up with excess, selling the units to purchase the other types is a very good idea indeed.
its only 75% of the PRICE of the ship if the market price you can buy at makes up 75% of the sale price. Even that analogy is wrong becuase the theoretically the sale price include cost + profit.
Therefore it couldn't be 75% of PRICE. It is 75% of the materials. Now I don't have the blueprints in front me as I am at work. So lets work with some round numbers
let's say a ship take 1,000,000 total m^3 mineral count to produce and for simplicity it only takes trit, pyrite, nox, mex, and iso. With Trit at 75%, the following breaks out for need.
trit750000
pyrite100,000
mex50000
iso25000
nox25000
lets assume the following price based roughly on ranges I remember.
trit7500004
pyrite100,0003
mex5000034
iso2500093
nox25000110
that yeilds
trit 750,000 4 3,000,000
pyrite 100,000 3 300,000
mex 50,000 34 1,700,000
iso 25,000 93 2,325,000
nox 25,000 110 2,750,000
or roughly 10 mill just in cost with trit at 75% of mineral component.
Percent of cost is 29.77% if you factor in 30% profit so 13 mil isk retail. it drops to 23% of retail.
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nether void
Caldari
The Older Gamers
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Zeba
Until everyone is only mining veld then where are the other minerals going to come from to buy? Drone regions have some effect on supply but thats moastly the high end low volume stuff like zyd that can easily be transported in bulk. If the man want to mine other stuff than veld then let him.
Rat loot.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Psi Draconis
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
Demand that is of course down to CCP and their blueprint requirements. If less tritanium was required and a sharing of the reduction was spread to other minerals it would create the balanced isk/unit that was there around two - three years ago.
That's how market works, supply meets the demand. Balanced isk/unit? Wth are you talking about?
He simply don't realize that those "balanced isk/unit that was there around two - three years ago" was dictated by the NPC buy prices.
Several of the middle/high end minerals have today a sell price lower that the old NPC buy orders.
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Ctica
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Posted - 2009.03.10 21:09:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mandorr Kzrell
Manufacturers who think they're better off mining what they need instead of what pays more and buying what they need.
This assumption is based on false logic.
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Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2009.03.10 21:45:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gerard Deneth
But at the same point, compare RL resource consumption to Trit usage. Let's say you're building a small building, a two story office complex. What's the one item you're going to use the most of in raw numbers. Concrete. It probably sucks up over 50% of your total resource usage by volume. The larger you build, the higher that percentage goes up I'm willing to bet.
Sure it's the larger part of what you need, but you justify it with volume and consumption. Think about it in terms of isk.
Say, if concrete was a mineral in an asteroid, and diamonds were also a mineral in an asteroid sitting right next to the concrete one. Would you mine concrete because you need it to build the building, or would you mine the diamonds, sell them and just buy the damn concrete for the building and go home with a bit of extra to spend on exotic dancers?
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2009.03.10 21:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ctica
Originally by: Mandorr Kzrell
Manufacturers who think they're better off mining what they need instead of what pays more and buying what they need.
This assumption is based on false logic.
You sir, need to back up your claim and make me see the err' in my logic.
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.03.10 22:22:00 -
[29]
I'll take veldspar over any other ore, but it has to be worth it, veld roids that pop in 2 cycles or plag roids that last 10. The plag will give you a better return for not having to move around so much. I mine in Lonetrek but can't seem to find quiet enough systems with big enough roids to just mine veldspar.
At least not in hi sec 
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Evarn Terallis
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Posted - 2009.03.11 01:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier
Originally by: Gerard Deneth
But at the same point, compare RL resource consumption to Trit usage. Let's say you're building a small building, a two story office complex. What's the one item you're going to use the most of in raw numbers. Concrete. It probably sucks up over 50% of your total resource usage by volume. The larger you build, the higher that percentage goes up I'm willing to bet.
Sure it's the larger part of what you need, but you justify it with volume and consumption. Think about it in terms of isk.
Say, if concrete was a mineral in an asteroid, and diamonds were also a mineral in an asteroid sitting right next to the concrete one. Would you mine concrete because you need it to build the building, or would you mine the diamonds, sell them and just buy the damn concrete for the building and go home with a bit of extra to spend on exotic dancers?
Continuing this analogy:
If everyone mined the diamonds and bought the concrete, there would be no one mining the concrete. Where would all those people who mined the diamonds buy their concrete now?
Concrete supplies go down, concrete prices go up, and eventually, those people have to start mining that damn concrete again.
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