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Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2009.03.11 07:06:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Evarn Terallis
Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier
Originally by: Gerard Deneth
But at the same point, compare RL resource consumption to Trit usage. Let's say you're building a small building, a two story office complex. What's the one item you're going to use the most of in raw numbers. Concrete. It probably sucks up over 50% of your total resource usage by volume. The larger you build, the higher that percentage goes up I'm willing to bet.
Sure it's the larger part of what you need, but you justify it with volume and consumption. Think about it in terms of isk.
Say, if concrete was a mineral in an asteroid, and diamonds were also a mineral in an asteroid sitting right next to the concrete one. Would you mine concrete because you need it to build the building, or would you mine the diamonds, sell them and just buy the damn concrete for the building and go home with a bit of extra to spend on exotic dancers?
Continuing this analogy:
If everyone mined the diamonds and bought the concrete, there would be no one mining the concrete. Where would all those people who mined the diamonds buy their concrete now?
Concrete supplies go down, concrete prices go up, and eventually, those people have to start mining that damn concrete again.
This is true. That's supply and demand fluctuation, but the advantage is understanding the difference in mining cheaper and more worthwhile materials. There will always be a vast quantity of people who do not know, or do not care about this, and so there will always be something more worthwhile to mine than the concrete.
Don't think 'what if all the chinese mined veld' think only about facts, not all chinese do and never will mine veld.
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
k'nah Manaan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.11 12:00:00 -
[32]
I like to make the purty belts go pop.
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Dmitryilyin
Gallente
Risky eXplosion
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:44:00 -
[33]
Here is ore price chart according to last calculations
ftp://hellnet.fdns.net/eve/DOC/oreprice.txt
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Wardo21
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Posted - 2009.03.11 15:13:00 -
[34]
If enough miners stopped hitting the mex/pye/iso/nox roids, these mineral prices would go up because of the reduced supply. Assuming that these miners switched to veld, trit price would go down because of the increased supply.
So the economy works when people get the most bang for their buck, or isk for their hours. When folks ignore that, those folks get less benefit for their time, and continue to hold down the prices on the non-trit low ends.
It's their choice to suffer from having less ISK.
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RaVeN Soulstrike
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Posted - 2009.03.11 15:19:00 -
[35]
I go to a belt for one reason.
To be able to see a hulk warp in, and go wtf, where are all the roids.
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Innara Tal
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:37:00 -
[36]
Unlike what some in this thread want you to believe, not everyone mines just to sell the ore. Some of us actually build stuff and sell for good profit.
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Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:37:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Innara Tal
Unlike what some in this thread want you to believe, not everyone mines just to sell the ore. Some of us actually build stuff and sell for good profit.
You just stepped in it like you can't imagine. 
_______________
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
A man creates; A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
Item Database
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Dzil
Caldari
Late Night Research
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Posted - 2009.03.11 18:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ms Delerium
I wonder, why 99% hulks mining plagioclase when there are big amounts of veldspar over the belt.
And veldspar ir, afaik, the most profitable low-end ore.
If they are mining, you know they aren't in it for the pure profit/hour anyways. Could be many reasons:
1. They may be simply clearing the plagio out of the belt, in the hopes that more veld will spawn.
2. They may need minerals specifically from the plagio, and have more fun building from their own minerals then swapping on the market.
3. Could well be a stupid macro that just chews up the first rock it sees.
4. Could also just be a lazy miner like me, that chews up the first rock I see. I make my money in trade and have my skills high enough I can operate from space, eating rocks is just there for the sound effects.
5. It could be a conspiracy - maybe plagio will one day be worth something again, and has been low riding all this time as part of a massive market manipulation ploy.
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Ashen Angel
Minmatar
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.03.11 18:11:00 -
[39]
time
The time for some to locate decent belts or suppy of veldspar is greater than the difference from mining other types.
Sure they may make less stripping out every roid in a belt or two vs someone that mines nothing but veldspar on the sales, but how does it balance out compared time wise.
If you have to spend 20 min out of an hour mining to get only veldspar vs mining everything in range and loosing only 4 minutes every hour... which makes more isk?
In some cases the market may also dictate what is needed, not all items require trit...
EVE University - Mining Fleet : Mining Specialist
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.03.11 19:11:00 -
[40]
well when I see hulks hiting anything but the 2-3 dence veld roids im hitting and also ignoreing the conentrated and Vanila Veld I just assume that
A they dont want to move to where I am or
B they realy need the mexalon/pyr or
C they are a macro or a moron(staring at the person who once again had an orca going to and from the belts while the Ith V hangs around not moveing)
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2009.03.11 21:46:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Innara Tal
Unlike what some in this thread want you to believe, not everyone mines just to sell the ore. Some of us actually build stuff and sell for good profit.
Whoa damn, how did I NOT think of that?!
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.03.12 02:32:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Ms Delerium on 12/03/2009 02:35:33
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
I'll take veldspar over any other ore, but it has to be worth it, veld roids that pop in 2 cycles or plag roids that last 10. The plag will give you a better return for not having to move around so much. I mine in Lonetrek but can't seem to find quiet enough systems with big enough roids to just mine veldspar.
At least not in hi sec
you can turn off strip miners before cycle being completed. You know?
anyways I find many people in Hulks mining plagio and pyro, both are 0.3 and 0,35m3 so I guess you win and its just a volume/movility question????
also some people pointed out some logistic reasons which can be right :)
Originally by: Innara Tal
Unlike what some in this thread want you to believe, not everyone mines just to sell the ore. Some of us actually build stuff and sell for good profit.
damn...
but it would be cheaper for you to mine veldspar, sell to market, buy plagio (or whatever) and then manufacture.
am i wrong??
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Tuggboat
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Posted - 2009.03.12 05:08:00 -
[43]
I've heard this argument a lot and I haven't run the numbers but shuffling all that ore back and forth can be time consuming, How much money is lost compared to how much is gained with this reasoning? Could the whole, "mine trit buy mid-ranges" be a sales effort to miners for some reason? it takes me about an hour to mine an indy full of trit. I mine and mfg where I have some standings and available roids and slots so after i mine this stuff, I have to go to market.
Maybe I'm exaggerating but by the time I check prices, hop the indy over from maybe a jump away, jump that slow aligning indy over to the nearest market, sell and then buy what I need and back its almost another hour. Now I could have made another 8 or ten mill but no, Ive just squeezed out another million in profit...maybe. This is not bad courier pay 250,000 a jump but what else could I have been doing? If I was mining even plagiocase I could have made another 6-8. Not only that, I've broken my pace, had to entail a little risk and the boredom Of listening to "Warp drive active" courier thing.
If I have the stuff nearby, it makes sense for me to get what i can even if I have to hop a system to refine. Swapping out for lowsec and 0.0 ores, yeah it makes sense to me. What doesn't is everybody thinking their courier work should be free?
Now who could possibly profit by this lie that we should mine trit. Who's game would be a little better if only they could have an army of free couriers? Who likes to stay in hub and make billion while we make millions? Who could make hundreds of low collateral courier contracts available to people that like to courier?
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Dennmoth Ferdier
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:32:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Dennmoth Ferdier on 12/03/2009 13:33:47
Originally by: Tuggboat
Stuff
What you say is true, but usually this statement is said presuming you either own a hulk or you or someone in your corp has a freighter.
If you have a hulk, if you mine a large quantity of about 5-> mil tritanium and price it slightly below that of the closest market hub, traders or manufacturers will come pick it up where ever you are selling it. This way you don't need to worry about the hauling part of it at all. I've tested and it works.
If you or anyone close to you has a freighter, you can casually mine for a month in hulk or what ever before you manage to get your freighter full, and then just do the one trip, or have your friend do the trip instead of hauling in an iteron which is not at all efficient.
Obviously, being a manufacturer you need to do the logistics of getting the mid-range ores you need to you as well opposed to just mining them yourself, but if you're a high end producer you will have to play the market and logistics game anyway, because you just simply can't mine as much as you need.
Having the right gear is what makes this statement valid.
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ms Delerium
Edited by: Ms Delerium on 12/03/2009 02:35:33
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
I'll take veldspar over any other ore, but it has to be worth it, veld roids that pop in 2 cycles or plag roids that last 10. The plag will give you a better return for not having to move around so much. I mine in Lonetrek but can't seem to find quiet enough systems with big enough roids to just mine veldspar.
At least not in hi sec
you can turn off strip miners before cycle being completed. You know?
Besides that being highly annoying to do, how does that help me with not having to relocate everytime there are no roids within range of my lasers? Answer: it does not.
It's surprising how many ppl don't seem to get this very simple fact.
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Marty UK
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Posted - 2009.03.13 12:40:00 -
[46]
Well I personally mine all types of roid - it does work out better profit wise to only mine veld, then sell, and then buy what minerals you need.
However, making the biggest profit isn't the be all and end all of the game.
The game is about getting enjoyment from what you are doing - making the most ISK will float some peoples boat, mining different types of roids, to get specific minerals to build stuff completely themselves will float other peoples boats.
At the end of the day, the great thing about EVE is that there are so many people, playing the game in so many diferent ways - its what makes EVE a living and breathing universe, if not, it would be like a car racing or football game, where everyone picks the fastest car, or better team.
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dagiimp
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Posted - 2009.03.14 02:04:00 -
[47]
Edited by: dagiimp on 14/03/2009 02:11:23
diamonds > concrete with some minor qualifications
extra transaction costs - sales tax
characheter might be more efficient at refining concrete than diamonds
plus not everyone a maxi-min-er - get it? lol
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Garvin Gremish
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Posted - 2009.03.14 03:38:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Marty UK
Good STUFF
Amen, brother. Amen.
GG
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.14 04:47:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Ms Delerium
Edited by: Ms Delerium on 12/03/2009 02:35:33
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
I'll take veldspar over any other ore, but it has to be worth it, veld roids that pop in 2 cycles or plag roids that last 10. The plag will give you a better return for not having to move around so much. I mine in Lonetrek but can't seem to find quiet enough systems with big enough roids to just mine veldspar.
At least not in hi sec
you can turn off strip miners before cycle being completed. You know?
Besides that being highly annoying to do, how does that help me with not having to relocate everytime there are no roids within range of my lasers? Answer: it does not.
It's surprising how many ppl don't seem to get this very simple fact.
Why is saving 1.5minutes ish on essentially not mining ANYTHING when you could have easily used that time to move to a closer set of rocks? WHY is it annoying to carry a roid scanner? Why is it annoying to do a simple sum in your head that will save you minutes per 'cycle'.
You don't get any more for mining for 90 seconds than you would for 180 seconds so why bother?
It's surprising you don't understand the value of your own time.
--------------------------
Life is about memories the more the better.
Eve Online Batch Calculator |
horitz
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Posted - 2009.03.14 07:00:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Ms Delerium
Edited by: Ms Delerium on 12/03/2009 02:35:33
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
I'll take veldspar over any other ore, but it has to be worth it, veld roids that pop in 2 cycles or plag roids that last 10. The plag will give you a better return for not having to move around so much. I mine in Lonetrek but can't seem to find quiet enough systems with big enough roids to just mine veldspar.
At least not in hi sec
you can turn off strip miners before cycle being completed. You know?
Besides that being highly annoying to do, how does that help me with not having to relocate everytime there are no roids within range of my lasers? Answer: it does not.
It's surprising how many ppl don't seem to get this very simple fact.
Why is saving 1.5minutes ish on essentially not mining ANYTHING when you could have easily used that time to move to a closer set of rocks? WHY is it annoying to carry a roid scanner? Why is it annoying to do a simple sum in your head that will save you minutes per 'cycle'.
You don't get any more for mining for 90 seconds than you would for 180 seconds so why bother?
It's surprising you don't understand the value of your own time.
Time moving though a belt to hit all the veldspar roids vs more efficent warp in and strip method of moving through a belt.
Time warping to next belt to find more veldspar..
Time warping to next system to find veldspar...
Yeah real money maker focusing only on one ore, when you can strip belts clean and make more isk per hour than picking and choosing to mine just veldspar.
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2009.03.14 07:05:00 -
[51]
Who said anything that it was specific to mining just one type of rock.
If you save time poping the rock early, you get the entire belt early. If you're using crystals, there's always the reloading that you have to take in to consideration of course, but meh.
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Life is about memories the more the better.
Eve Online Batch Calculator |
Mistress Luck
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Posted - 2009.03.15 06:53:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Mistress Luck on 15/03/2009 06:56:54
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
The question should be "Why is tritanium the most profitable mineral in empire?"
From Market Discussions: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=989786
|| Mineral || Ore% || Loot% || Drone Compounds% ||
||-----------||------||-------||------------------||
|| Tritanium || 46% || 43% || 11% ||
|| Pyerite || 29% || 60% || 10% ||
|| Mexallon || 30% || 59% || 11% ||
|| Isogen || 21% || 56% || 23% ||
|| Nocxium || 18% || 32% || 51% ||
|| Zydrine || 43% || 18% || 40% ||
|| Megacyte || 44% || 39% || 16% ||
|| Morphite || 77% || 1% || 22% ||
* Ore is minerals from the asteroid ores
* loot is modules, ships, charges, drones for example.
* drone compounds are loot items from rogue drones
Release of the drone regions completely crashed the low sec mineral market, resulting in a corresponding increase in value of null sec and high sec minerals due to fixed basket prices of minerals (a consequence of the insurance payout system).
Macro miners are the only thing keeping Tritanium prices from catapulting into the stratosphere. Be thankful for macro miners. Ask CCP to get rid of T1 unnamed loot drops, and to get rid of drone mineral drops and replace them with items that can be turned in for bounties like sleeper trade items. Then you might see some balance restored to the mineral market, and it will once again be profitable to mine in low-sec. Right now the best way to get your minerals is to run lvl 4 missions in high sec.
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Fuego Caldar
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:57:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Fuego Caldar on 17/03/2009 19:05:56
Edited by: Fuego Caldar on 17/03/2009 19:04:23
my hulk can pop a high sec roid in 1 cycle on 1 strip miner. Sometimes I Just mine it because its there!!
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:00:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Ms Delerium
Edited by: Ms Delerium on 12/03/2009 02:35:33
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
I'll take veldspar over any other ore, but it has to be worth it, veld roids that pop in 2 cycles or plag roids that last 10. The plag will give you a better return for not having to move around so much. I mine in Lonetrek but can't seem to find quiet enough systems with big enough roids to just mine veldspar.
At least not in hi sec
you can turn off strip miners before cycle being completed. You know?
Besides that being highly annoying to do, how does that help me with not having to relocate everytime there are no roids within range of my lasers? Answer: it does not.
It's surprising how many ppl don't seem to get this very simple fact.
Why is saving 1.5minutes ish on essentially not mining ANYTHING when you could have easily used that time to move to a closer set of rocks? WHY is it annoying to carry a roid scanner? Why is it annoying to do a simple sum in your head that will save you minutes per 'cycle'.
You don't get any more for mining for 90 seconds than you would for 180 seconds so why bother?
It's surprising you don't understand the value of your own time.
It is annoying cause it needs attention dude, and you have to keep a close eye on what laser is aimed at what roid, if you could just tag them or something it would be less of a hassle. But even then. And who says I'm not carrying a roid scanner?
It's surprising YOU don't understand the value of my time. My time is better spent looking at market, ingame chat, managing research/production jobs than it is focussing on something as boring as keeping track of the roid that goes pop in 1 or 2 cycles.
Hell, even surfing the net in a relaxed manner is worth more to me than those few thousand of isk I'd haul in more because of constant attention to a small roid. How's that for valueing time?
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Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.03.18 02:47:00 -
[55]
ISK is important, but it's not the only goal in this game for some people.
For some people, there's clearly a sense of satisfaction in stripping a belt to the last 'roid. Leaving a bunch of not-quite-as-profitable rocks behind doesn't feel right, doesn't feel fun, whatever.
If mining a belt is for you like a game of computer Solitaire -- mindless manipulation of pixels with a sense of satisfaction at the end -- not finishing might destroy some of the fun for you.
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Ironfleet.com |
Cygwin Gaad
Caldari
The Element Syndicate
Black Mesa Project
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Posted - 2009.03.18 03:31:00 -
[56]
Like GTC's i'd like to know who buys all the veldspar everyone is getting rich off selling.
whos the poor sucker losing out?
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.03.18 05:26:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Cygwin Gaad
Like GTC's i'd like to know who buys all the veldspar everyone is getting rich off selling.
whos the poor sucker losing out?
I buy Trit, but nowhere near the top of the price curve. and I honestly dont think im gougeing.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence. |
Arkhan Bayne
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Posted - 2009.03.18 17:11:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mandorr Kzrell
Macros. Ignorant people. Manufacturers who think they're better off mining what they need instead of what pays more and buying what they need.
Or SMART people.
Veld is proffitable, yes, however, the only reason it's proffitable is because everyone needs lots of it to fuel production.
you also need all the other minerals aswell, not just tons of trit. You need Mex, Isogen, Pye, megacyte, zyd, and so on. you can't get them if 100% of the mining community mines veld.
these people are the smart ones. If i were them, I'd be stockpiling the other minerals until the bottom falls out the trit market due to saturation, and a lack of other minerals, then, it's isk making time.
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Kalenia Rostok
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Posted - 2009.03.18 18:26:00 -
[59]
Somewhere I read that only 25% of the minerals are actually mined in Eve, the rest comes from melting of loot and the drones (mining with guns).
Something is very wrong with pye and nox atm, there's no reason for them to be as cheap as the more common mineral above them... CCP? Do something :P.
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Crimsona Endarius
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Posted - 2009.03.18 18:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Arkhan Bayne
Originally by: Mandorr Kzrell
Macros. Ignorant people. Manufacturers who think they're better off mining what they need instead of what pays more and buying what they need.
Or SMART people.
Veld is proffitable, yes, however, the only reason it's proffitable is because everyone needs lots of it to fuel production.
you also need all the other minerals aswell, not just tons of trit. You need Mex, Isogen, Pye, megacyte, zyd, and so on. you can't get them if 100% of the mining community mines veld.
these people are the smart ones. If i were them, I'd be stockpiling the other minerals until the bottom falls out the trit market due to saturation, and a lack of other minerals, then, it's isk making time.
Believe what you will. When the rest of the people stop mining everything else than veld, the prices will rice and trit price will go down. When that happens, I will just switch from veld and mine what ever is more profitable.
And knowing that this will happen, it's the smart people who mine veld, buy off the other stuff when it's cheap with the veld money, and sell when the prices rise again. It's still not smart mining anything else than veld now. Mine it when it's worth something. Stockpiling from mining it yourself profits you nothing.
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