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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:34:00 -
[1]
I imagine many of you are in the same boat I am. I've been with the game 4 years and I love every aspect of it. Recently exploration/ invention/ T2 production have been really enjoyable and profitable in the game... with the exception of trying to get access to high end moons. I love the fact that Eve is hard and cruel.. I don't want some of the most valuable commodities in the game to be EASY to get. I also don't want them to be IMPOSSIBLE to get either. Because moons are static and unchanging, the big alliances can lock them down- anyone who has tried to find even a CRAPPY moon can tell you this is true. This makes it impossible for small or mid sized corps to get access to those resources.
This used to be true of high end minerals as well- I rejoiced when they introduced exploration belts. It is still incredibly risky to mine a large ark/ bist/ mercoxit belt in 0.0 without sov protecting you.. but you CAN do it. You have to fight your way there and back, and deal with massive logistical issues and risk very expensive ships in hostile space.. but hell, that's Eve and that's why we love the game! And when you succeed as a small corp and end up with 100k megacyte and zyd and 5k morphite in the bank.. you really get to enjoy the risk/ reward that Eve offers.
When I first read about w-space the first and only thing I thought was "thank god, there will finally be some dyspro moons that the big alliances won't be able to lock down." The changing access points and logistcal difficulties would make moon mining there difficult for anyone, and likely impossible to keep up permanently. But a ballsy and LUCKY expedition might be able to mine enough high end moon materials to really bolster component production for a while.
I guess you could tell me to lump it and get with a big alliance if I want to be vertically integrated with T2 production. Done that. been there.. and it made Eve very unenjoyable for me. I play the game because I want to live the virtual life of Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds... not to work for Weyland-Yutani or Darth Vader and the Empire.
The alchemy thing was a weak fix for this issue... the moons you need for the process are still static and can still be locked down. I was really hoping w-space moons would fix this problem. Oh well.
There must be some possible solution to this problem.. wouldn't it be great if through some (heinously expensive and skill intensive) process you could research existing moons to find previously unknown deposits of moon minerals? Even if they were in limited supplies.. it would sort of be like the T2 BPCs you get from invention compared to having the BPO. At least it would be something.
I'll keep playing Eve regardless. I love this game and there is nothing even remotely as good on the planet, so no you can't have my stuff. I don't mind having goals in game that are DAMN NEAR impossible but I don't like when when things are effectively IMPOSSIBLE like trying to mine a good moon without selling your soul to some mega alliance.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:44:00 -
[2]
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 16:50:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Mithos Victus
Originally by: Enkindu
I always think in terms of my personal gain as opposed to overall game dynamics, mechanics, and consistency.
When it comes to determining what is right or wrong I think only of my own wallet and not what will or will not actually work in the game itself.
Fixed this for you. 
So you think it was bad for Eve in general when they introduced invention and suddenly the BPO cartels could no longer charge 75 mil for covert ops cloaks and 500 mil for hulks? Man, this is a fun forum to post on.. people are just as aggressive here as they are in the game! Woot! Bring it on!
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 17:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: AC Resonance
Originally by: Enkindu
I don't post here generally.. but what qualifies as a wall of text? More than two sentences? If reading comprehension is a problem I'll try dumbing it down to Dr. Seuss level next time.
As for responses from the big alliance folks: yes, I know you like things the way they are, thanks for your input.
No its a wall of text because you rant on and on without offering any solutions and then close by stamping your feet frothing at the mouth and telling your mum your not playing because they are all ****y pants at that party.
Understand?
If you want to critise fine, do it in the right forum and offer solutions. Just don't write a ranty wall of text and expect a favourable reaction. You should be happy anyone responded at all, its not like you left any room for debate.
Monologging, is for blogs, this is a discussion forum.
/me goes back to reading the cat in the hat.
*giggle*
Giggle indeed. Since my wall of text was too dense for you to get through.. let me point out that I clearly stated that I love the game and I'd keep playing no matter what.. and I DID offer an idea for a solution. Presentation of an idea within a forum to get feedback from my peers.. how is that a monologue? In the future you may want to actually read to the posts you respond to.. otherwise you look, well, kinda "challenged."
To those of you that suggested the moons were left out of w-space to keep them from becoming additional isk fountains for the big alliances, you may be right. I know CCP works hard to keep the game balanced and to date I think they've done a damned good job. It had been my hope that the logistical difficulties of moon mining in w-space would be a put off to the alliances, and would represent an acceptable challenge to the smaller organizations without access to k-space high end moons- much the way a high end exploration belt in NPC space will be virtually ignored by big alliances with access to good trusec belts (but might be a huge score for a small corp).
I had seen the randomness of access to w-space as possibly allowing for windows of activity by smaller, self-reliant expeditionary fleets that would not be possible in regular space.
Thanks for the good responses, and as for the "pompous twit" replies, keep them coming too.. laughter is good for the soul : )
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
A wall of text is a lot of words describing something that could take 80% or more less words for the same effect. Using the enter key once in a while does not make it any less of a wall of text.
I can rewrite the op, tl;dr into the following.
I have been playing eve a long time. I think there should be more ways than moon mining using essentially static structures to gain the resources needed for t2 prodution, even in small amounts. Perhaps a skill intensive way to mine small amounts of it off of unclaimed moons. Alchemy does not count because it still requires moon mining (using a static POS). Does anyone have any ideas?
The op really doesn't go into any solution, but posts a lot of words that basically amounts to the above. Thus it is a wall of text.
Based on this definition, I'll gladly accept the wall of text label. During my post grad work I was reading a book every 2 days for a while. I much prefer well framed ideas that tell me something about context and the writer's state of mind to lazy shorthand. I suppose if reading comprehension is a problem for some people you can make allowances- but I think your "synopsis" is far less compelling without contextual elements. Maybe it's a generational thing- I notice most folks 15-20 years younger than I am are lazy as hell about both reading and writing.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Thernys
Beat me to it. If you think you can hold a moon in W-space, you can be pretty sure a nullsec megacorp can bring themselves to do it.
Actually it was my hope that NO ONE could hold a moon indefinitely, but that there might be windows of opportunity to mine the moons for smaller self-contained fleets.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gunner
I think W-space is in concept made for small alliances and medium sized corps, because of the nature of it.
0.0 alliances are on a daily basis trying to get more space under their control, or at least try to keep what they have. W-Space exploration just does not fit into this, unless you have or make enough alts to do the job.
Once you are in W-Space and **** hits the fan, it's not simple to get back to alliance space to join any ops. That's imo the main reason not many large 0.0 alliances will get involved.
Glad at least one other person was looking at things like I was : )
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:43:00 -
[8]
My plan was gonna be to jump in with a rorq and a carrier (or a rorq and enough combat support) find a moon worth mining, carry as much POS fuel as I could for a small faction tower, then to scan the wormholes in the w-space system and "mass them out" just to the point of collapse regularly so that if the WH is found there won't be much coming through- then mine until I'm either out of fuel or space. Keep in mind the rorq with expanders holds 126k m3. I was just thinking moon mining, no intention whatsoever to go after the sleepers.
Boneheaded scheme? Perhaps. Completely impractical? Probably. But doing boneheaded, impractical stuff is fun. People thought I was nuts when I used to jump my carrier into fountain solo to hit the explo sites there (had an alt that could flipflop between cyno/ garage alt for the carrier) but I made billions and had a BLAST doing it. I don't mind the loss/ risk side of Eve... I just want to play with all of the toys : )
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nova Fox
the more stuff you shove into your roquel the more likely youll break the WH.
As long as you slipped in a few decent scanning/ combat ships ahead of time (only barges and indys in the rorq) collapsing the wormhole would be good. Rorq has 40k corp hangar so you could tweak fits in there with it. I was envisioning scanning and trying to mass out the WH pretty much as quickly as I could find them.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ruze
Is that a good idea? I mean, you can monitor a wormhole you know ... specifically if it's in some innocent section of space. But if you close down the only k-space wormhole, you're going to force a new one to appear ... possibly in some very bad space.
Could be. I trained up calibration V to help deal with this potential problem, but yes you could end up screwed- that's part of the allure of wormholes ; )
It's all moot now anyway, no moons to go looking for : (
Thanks to everyone sharing ideas and discussion- that was the intention of my original post.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:49:00 -
[11]
The people posting the "no win button" crap.. could you please read the post and not just the thread title before responding?
If you did you'd see that I wasn't asking for a "win" button, but rather for a chance to take an unarmed, unescorted 2 billion isk ship loaded with half a billion isk worth of fuel and equipment into extremely dangerous space (with no guarantee of a safe route home) with the hope that I could survive and return with enough dysprosium to make the expedition worth it.
It's not about winning- it's about just getting the chance to try some stuff out. I think that's a big part of why some of us play eve.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.09 20:58:00 -
[12]
Thought you needed sov to build caps?
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.10 00:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sebea
Your overly verbose, and your using too many big words put together for the General Discussion forums.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
You guys are probably right that the big alliances would eventually find a way to lock down any available good moons in W-space. But the sheer number of new systems might have at least offered a chance for a few of the smaller motivated corps to have a chance to play a little, and I still believe the logistic hurdles associated with getting in and out of w-space might dissuade people from trying to establish long term POS there. I could be wrong of course.
I doubt I'm the only person in the game who is more than a little dissapointed that moon mining was cut from w-space.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.10 01:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
A deathstar would be immovable once it had been setup with the way wormholes were working on the test server. You know it, anyone whos tested them knows it. All you want is to be one of the first to get your very own isk printing machine and now you've got sand in your vagina because you realised thats not going to happen.
Thanks for the belly laugh. Funny for years I've been telling people that the eve community is great and generally pretty intelligent and mature.. guess I'll have to amend that now with a warning that the forums seem to have a solid population of 15 year old tough guys : )
As sure as you are that you understand everything in the universe you are absolutely incorrect. The completionist in me would just once, even if only for a short period of time, be able to build a black ops from scratch, having obtained all of the raw materials on my own. I understand this may be a little to esoteric for you to get your mind around, and for that I apologize... I'll try to limit my further responses in this thread to grunts and single syllable words to bring myself more in line with community expectations.
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