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Drinian Cole Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.03.09 22:55:00 - [1] Hey all, I'm hoping to move my exploration into w-space after the patch, and I'm trying to gauge what ship to use/how to outfit it. I haven't had a chance to log onto singularity so I don't know how tough the w-space exploration plexes are gonna be, will it be possible to outfit a myrmidon or dominix to run them solo? If so, and someone could recommend to me a fitting for either ship, that would be great. I have all T2 drones, T2 medium hybrids but not large (yet). It should include a probe launcher and a code breaker for solo-ability, and I assume that cap boosters aren't the best idea for long term w-space? I prefer T1 ships for insurance, and since the wormholes can only take so much mass, I thought a myrm would be more versatile long as it can handle the sites. I know that this could be done better with a scan alt, but still. Ideas, advice or recommendations welcome. Cheers
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.09 23:02:00 - [2] Sleeper rats are rather aggressive towards drones, so I hear.
Takeshi Yamato	Posted - 2009.03.09 23:13:00 - [3] Sleepers target drones immediately. Frigs will kill drones quickly, cruisers slowly.
UMEE Tactical Initiative	Posted - 2009.03.09 23:39:00 - [4] it's not looking good. i wanted to go out in my ishtar, solo some stuff. but it aint gonna happen till they nerf sleepers on drones.
Drinian Cole Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.03.10 02:36:00 - [5] are drone specced players being shafted, or is it just generally impossible to solo? I thought I read that they wanted the easier w-hole plexes to be doable in a battlecruiser. Is there any truth to that either?
kyrv	Posted - 2009.03.10 15:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Drinian Cole are drone specced players being shafted, or is it just generally impossible to solo? I thought I read that they wanted the easier w-hole plexes to be doable in a battlecruiser. Is there any truth to that either? Not really other modules like turrets/missiles/modules are effected by other forces in worm hole space.
Selia Rain	Posted - 2009.03.10 16:57:00 - [7] Wouldn't carrying a RR for your drones make this pretty much a nonissue assuming you kill the frigate threat first?
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:21:00 - [8] Originally by: UMEE it's not looking good. i wanted to go out in my ishtar, solo some stuff. but it aint gonna happen till they nerf sleepers on drones. I love noobs. Maybe JUUUUUST maybe these sites aren't meant to be solo'd...... Hmm? And if I'm fighting an ishtar in a frigate or cruiser you can bet your ass I'm popping your drones. Why should the sleepers be any different o' lord of thy carebears? Stop, hammer time.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:22:00 - [9] Originally by: Drinian Cole are drone specced players being shafted, or is it just generally impossible to solo? I thought I read that they wanted the easier w-hole plexes to be doable in a battlecruiser. Is there any truth to that either? Obvious troll is obvious. Stop, hammer time.
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.10 17:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: UMEE it's not looking good. i wanted to go out in my ishtar, solo some stuff. but it aint gonna happen till they nerf sleepers on drones. I love noobs. Maybe JUUUUUST maybe these sites aren't meant to be solo'd...... Hmm? And if I'm fighting an ishtar in a frigate or cruiser you can bet your ass I'm popping your drones. Why should the sleepers be any different o' lord of thy carebears? In a later blog (3-4? ago) they said that they do intend for there to be soloable sleeper plexes. Soloable doesn't mean EASY, just that you could do it. IDK about BC's doing it, but they did in fact say there would be easier ones, usually found in high sec, that will be easier and could accommodate a solo player. @ Your comment about being in a frig shooting drones, fine, fair argument, but do you INSTANTLY destroy them? no. A bonused drone from a domi, ishtar, myrm, etc, all have HP bonuses for a reason. In a frig it'll take you a while to get through an ogres shields. If sleepers want to shoot drones, be my guest, but they should not be able to destroy them before there is any hope of rescuing them. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Mischa Zana	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: UMEE it's not looking good. i wanted to go out in my ishtar, solo some stuff. but it aint gonna happen till they nerf sleepers on drones. I love noobs. Maybe JUUUUUST maybe these sites aren't meant to be solo'd...... Hmm? And if I'm fighting an ishtar in a frigate or cruiser you can bet your ass I'm popping your drones. Why should the sleepers be any different o' lord of thy carebears? In a later blog (3-4? ago) they said that they do intend for there to be soloable sleeper plexes. Soloable doesn't mean EASY, just that you could do it. IDK about BC's doing it, but they did in fact say there would be easier ones, usually found in high sec, that will be easier and could accommodate a solo player. @ Your comment about being in a frig shooting drones, fine, fair argument, but do you INSTANTLY destroy them? no. A bonused drone from a domi, ishtar, myrm, etc, all have HP bonuses for a reason. In a frig it'll take you a while to get through an ogres shields. If sleepers want to shoot drones, be my guest, but they should not be able to destroy them before there is any hope of rescuing them. Yes, yes they should. Sleepers gank everything as a team correct? So if they all target your drones at once, they aren't going to survive the experience, correct? This is supposed to be difficult, and Drones are a threat. Drones give a solo ship the ability to be a one man fleet, and it's a well known fact that Drones are used in later level missions to pop small things while you pop bigger things yourself. Drones apply extra damage, and are generally ignored to some degree. If the sleepers fight together, you can expect them to go for the biggest threat, and it is in no way YOU. You're the SECOND priority, after removing you of your buffed up little annoyances. Short version: Drones = Threat, Sleepers judge threats and fight as a team. If you were solo, against a group of players, wouldn't they be popping absolutely everything you have and quickly? The sleepers are supposed to be hard blighters. Also, it has been said that if you go through a wormhole from high sec space, you aren't GUARANTEED that you will end up in the shallow end of w-space. There is still the possibility that you will end up in the deep end, and from what I've heard, the deep end is beyond mean. I'm guessing there are varied degree's of difficulty. Pop, pop, pop.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.10 18:56:00 - [12] Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: UMEE it's not looking good. i wanted to go out in my ishtar, solo some stuff. but it aint gonna happen till they nerf sleepers on drones. I love noobs. Maybe JUUUUUST maybe these sites aren't meant to be solo'd...... Hmm? And if I'm fighting an ishtar in a frigate or cruiser you can bet your ass I'm popping your drones. Why should the sleepers be any different o' lord of thy carebears? In a later blog (3-4? ago) they said that they do intend for there to be soloable sleeper plexes. Soloable doesn't mean EASY, just that you could do it. IDK about BC's doing it, but they did in fact say there would be easier ones, usually found in high sec, that will be easier and could accommodate a solo player. @ Your comment about being in a frig shooting drones, fine, fair argument, but do you INSTANTLY destroy them? no. A bonused drone from a domi, ishtar, myrm, etc, all have HP bonuses for a reason. In a frig it'll take you a while to get through an ogres shields. If sleepers want to shoot drones, be my guest, but they should not be able to destroy them before there is any hope of rescuing them. My fully bonused 200 mm autocannons with EMP ammo will rip medium drones to **** and back in no time. 6 sets of autocannons fully bonused would rip your drones to shreds. I use autocannons because that is what I use and know. The sleepers are supposed to simulate pvp, so launching drones against their nasty frigs is pretty normal in pvp. Now if you have some frigate friends with you doing some ballsy damage like i described earlier and then put drones on them i'm guessing they will live longer. Stop, hammer time.
Baihuigau Gallente Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.03.10 19:24:00 - [13] Sleepers pop drones like skittles not worth using other than repper drones :(, but the ones i did down to 0.6 were soloable and dident pop drones as much anything lower and they become like bees rather agressive twards drones.
Nalena Arlath	Posted - 2009.03.10 19:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Baihuigau Sleepers pop drones like skittles not worth using other than repper drones :(, but the ones i did down to 0.6 were soloable and dident pop drones as much anything lower and they become like bees rather agressive twards drones. Which is working as intended, since they want sleepers to be more of a pvp style than the mindless mission grind rats we are used to. Players aggro drones as well if you try to launch your drones against them. Working as intended!
Alexia Diana	Posted - 2009.03.10 20:16:00 - [15] My advice is to give up on gallente for small scale PVP & new NPC. Drones are crap as a PVP weapon system. Lots of people knew that for a long time, much more are realising this now, with the introduction of sleepers. Also, all blaster ships < BS, will get toasted if engaging anything then one sided battles. So, adapt and try not to fly gallente anymore?
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:23:00 - [16] Yep forget about gallente drone ships for wormholes. For example we just did a 0.0 wormhole (only anomalies though, didnt had sigs which werent roids, so not that hard). We used 4 domis and some random other ships. Remote repping + high resists from domis worked great. We have been there 1.5 hour i think. Not more than a handfull of time drone agro total, and for sure i didnt lose any drone, i dont think others did. All my drones survived long enough under agro to be recalled to drone bay and fly the 40km to my domi. Did you even try them out on TQ? Or did you just base everything you say on a test build of sisi? Unless people have really other experiences with wormholes, the one we did was not a problem at all for drone ships. I actually think ccp did a nice job with drone agro. They dont immediatly just pop all your drones, but they also dont completely ignore them, and they dont insta pop a drone when they shoot it. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Drinian Cole Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:54:00 - [17] Well can't say that that is what I wanted to hear, but thanks everyone for the info. I'll have to try it out a bit once i get the patch downloaded but it sounds like what most of you are saying is that even if some of the easier w-space plexes can be solo'd, gall ships aren't going to be the ones you want. It's pretty much equal time for me to train either amarr or minnie, so for the purposes of trying to solo the easy content, which do you think would be a better goal then?
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.10 21:56:00 - [18] I think the domi would be the better choice. At least in the wormhole i did you would keep your drones alive if you payed some attention to them. If you lose some drones the problem will be far smaller then when your apoc loses some drones. You can just launch new ones, the apoc is tackled indefinately. Domi also have good tank, without the need for damage mods in the low slots. Main weapon system is cap free. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.10 23:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Alexia Diana My advice is to give up on gallente for small scale PVP & new NPC. Drones are crap as a PVP weapon system. Lots of people knew that for a long time, much more are realising this now, with the introduction of sleepers. Also, all blaster ships < BS, will get toasted if engaging anything then one sided battles. So, adapt and try not to fly gallente anymore? QFT. ---- zzzz ... zzzz ... zzzz
Ap0ll0n Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:04:00 - [20] Originally by: Alexia Diana My advice is to give up on gallente for small scale PVP & new NPC. Drones are crap as a PVP weapon system. Lots of people knew that for a long time, much more are realising this now, with the introduction of sleepers. Also, all blaster ships < BS, will get toasted if engaging anything then one sided battles. So, adapt and try not to fly gallente anymore? Ever heard of railguns?
Psi Draconis	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Drinian Cole Hey all, I'm hoping to move my exploration into w-space after the patch, and I'm trying to gauge what ship to use/how to outfit it. I haven't had a chance to log onto singularity so I don't know how tough the w-space exploration plexes are gonna be, will it be possible to outfit a myrmidon or dominix to run them solo? If so, and someone could recommend to me a fitting for either ship, that would be great. I have all T2 drones, T2 medium hybrids but not large (yet). It should include a probe launcher and a code breaker for solo-ability, and I assume that cap boosters aren't the best idea for long term w-space? I prefer T1 ships for insurance, and since the wormholes can only take so much mass, I thought a myrm would be more versatile long as it can handle the sites. I know that this could be done better with a scan alt, but still. Ideas, advice or recommendations welcome. Cheers I spend hours in w-space with Ishtar wich had probe launcher fitted. Only way I could use drones was repping sentry drones and orbiting them... Couldn't kill anything bigger than few frigates and cruisers. Even one battleship nearly killed me in seconds... I had 2x medium reppers, permarunning, plex armor hardeners.. About 800-1000 dps omnitank... So what happen to regular drones? They got pwn'd... Instantly... Seriously - do not take drone boat to wormhole space - they just kill your drones. Btw, if you have nearly perfect scanning skills, you absolutely don't need scanning alt to get there. New probe launcher takes 15 CPU, can be fitted on any ship easily. And you need 8 probes, just remember to call them back and dont let the time run out.
Psi Draconis	Posted - 2009.03.11 11:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Alexia Diana My advice is to give up on gallente for small scale PVP & new NPC. Drones are crap as a PVP weapon system. Lots of people knew that for a long time, much more are realising this now, with the introduction of sleepers. Also, all blaster ships < BS, will get toasted if engaging anything then one sided battles. So, adapt and try not to fly gallente anymore? Sure drones are crap if you can't use T2 heavies and T2 sentries.. But if you can..
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Psi Draconis Originally by: Drinian Cole [..] I spend hours in w-space with Ishtar wich had probe launcher fitted. Only way I could use drones was repping sentry drones and orbiting them... Couldn't kill anything bigger than few frigates and cruisers. [..] So what happen to regular drones? They got pwn'd... Instantly... Seriously - do not take drone boat to wormhole space - they just kill your drones. [..] This. Shame too, cos I have this great jack-of-all-trades mymri setup, but there's just no chance you can do anything with non t2 sentries in WH space, even those need repping. My sentries have tanked multiple BS, but sleepers seem to suffer a lot less from the sig radius. Also, yes, in pvp I expect people to go for my drones. I don't expect frigs to kill ogre IIs from 20-40km, nor do I expect 40-80 km webs from anything that drop my drone's speed down so hard I know I can kiss my drones goodbye once they are outside 11 km. I did however expect only nerfs from 2005 to drones anyway so I have cross trained enough to try out a minnie fit. Although for WH space it will be hard to defeat an uber passive drake :) Again. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Alexia Diana	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:23:00 - [24] Yes, I've heard about rails, I have to use them in sniper fleet fits. But i'm not doing POS's and mega blobs every day. Really? Do you think that I will ever fly an Ishtar with T1 drones? And ... do you also think that T2 drones don't go "puff"? Soloing in your Ishtar against a good pilot is impossible. The other guy will shoot your drones every time. Look, if you can and really want to fly Gallente, then do it. But don't try keep a race down, because it offers you a good advantage in PVP engagements.
Riho Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:27:00 - [25] i fighted sleepers for 2h last night whit one of my chars in a domi.... only lost 2 ogres and 4 hammers :) dunno if that was luck or not... but thats how it went ---------------------------------- Fighting for something Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order Tenth Legion	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:40:00 - [26] If your guns are doing more damage then your drones they don't shoot your drones.....Much. They hardly ever target repping drones, keep that in mind. Stop, hammer time.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:50:00 - [27] Originally by: UMEE it's not looking good. i wanted to go out in my ishtar, solo some stuff. but it aint gonna happen till they nerf sleepers on drones. I stand by my assessment: The Ishtar is a piece of crap.
Snow Banshee Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:04:00 - [28] Originally by: Megan Maynard If your guns are doing more damage then your drones they don't shoot your drones.....Much. They hardly ever target repping drones, keep that in mind. Maybe we found something important here.
Phrixus Zephyr Prospero Incorperated	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Alexia Diana Drones are crap as a PVP weapon system. Proof, if anyone needed any, that you don't know what you're talking about.
Remmon Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:32:00 - [30] It is important to note that sleepers are NOT specifically aggressive towards drones. They treat drones in exactly the same way as they treat every other ship. All you need to do to keep your drones alive, is to keep the sleeper's attention on you. The easiest way to do that is to throw a ton of damage or remote rep and cap boost your fleet mates (Who will be throwing a ton of damage). I've personally found that, using a 6 battleship RR gang, our drones (Light and medium T2s) do not get targetted at all, by anything, just so long as we start shooting before we start sending drones at targets.

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