| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Miri Tirzan
   |
Posted - 2004.08.14 23:19:00 -
[31]
Soon there will be POS... so what does this do now. Just another knee jerk NERF.
The problem is that the play base actually grew. The exiting labs and factories were ok for a 3k player base but not for a 10k one. Either increase labs or put things back and let everyone wait for Shiva.
This is the dumbest change since CCP last killed the player based economy.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Miri Tirzan
|
Posted - 2004.08.14 23:19:00 -
[32]
Soon there will be POS... so what does this do now. Just another knee jerk NERF.
The problem is that the play base actually grew. The exiting labs and factories were ok for a 3k player base but not for a 10k one. Either increase labs or put things back and let everyone wait for Shiva.
This is the dumbest change since CCP last killed the player based economy.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Surefoot
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 00:05:00 -
[33]
It increases by 5% a day? So a year from now a slot that's never stopped increasing will be over 50 billion isk in rent?
That's one hell of a money sink.
|
Surefoot
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 00:05:00 -
[34]
It increases by 5% a day? So a year from now a slot that's never stopped increasing will be over 50 billion isk in rent?
That's one hell of a money sink.
|
Astinius
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 04:50:00 -
[35]
6 slots? I am lucky to have 1 because of players like you. I pray they get so expensive you have to drop all but 1.
|
Astinius
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 04:50:00 -
[36]
6 slots? I am lucky to have 1 because of players like you. I pray they get so expensive you have to drop all but 1.
|
Jubjub Kushrenada
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 05:00:00 -
[37]
It's a nice idea, but I doubt it'll work. The easiest way is to limit the number of slots a person/corp can own. They can do it for people based on lab ops skill, and for a corp, perhaps it could just be by 1 per member.
They should also increase the number of lab slots available, maybe not across the board, but based on location. A lot of people complain that this will flood the BPC market, but I don't believe that. How many slots are actually in productive use right now? I'd bet a lot of ISK that most are being held by large corps or slot hoarders and researching shuttles to ME 10000000000 so they don't lose the slot, or are pounding out ammo copies in the hundreds. I'm sure the vast majority aren't being put to a use that will contribute to or effect the economy, so adding more slots won't really put a dent in the BPC market.
But does it go up per day or per week? Clarification would be nice.
|
Jubjub Kushrenada
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 05:00:00 -
[38]
It's a nice idea, but I doubt it'll work. The easiest way is to limit the number of slots a person/corp can own. They can do it for people based on lab ops skill, and for a corp, perhaps it could just be by 1 per member.
They should also increase the number of lab slots available, maybe not across the board, but based on location. A lot of people complain that this will flood the BPC market, but I don't believe that. How many slots are actually in productive use right now? I'd bet a lot of ISK that most are being held by large corps or slot hoarders and researching shuttles to ME 10000000000 so they don't lose the slot, or are pounding out ammo copies in the hundreds. I'm sure the vast majority aren't being put to a use that will contribute to or effect the economy, so adding more slots won't really put a dent in the BPC market.
But does it go up per day or per week? Clarification would be nice.
|
Gravimetric
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 05:26:00 -
[39]
I just hope the supply/demand function was also implemented for office spaces as they are even a larger problem.
|
Gravimetric
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 05:26:00 -
[40]
I just hope the supply/demand function was also implemented for office spaces as they are even a larger problem.
|
Aboath Greydroggen
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 07:55:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 15/08/2004 07:56:27
 Quote:
... but that's not the maximum ... you can research a print well beyond that for the purposes of tying up a lab slot
True
Quote:
The problem is that the play base actually grew. The exiting labs and factories were ok for a 3k player base but not for a 10k one.
VERY true
|
Aboath Greydroggen
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 07:55:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 15/08/2004 07:56:27
Quote:
... but that's not the maximum ... you can research a print well beyond that for the purposes of tying up a lab slot
True
Quote:
The problem is that the play base actually grew. The exiting labs and factories were ok for a 3k player base but not for a 10k one.
VERY true
|
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 09:36:00 -
[43]
For those people who think increasing the number of lab slots will flood the BPC market, do not forget that the number of people who are avaliable to buy BPCs has also increased with the enlarged playerbase.
Harry Voyager
|
Harry Voyager
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 09:36:00 -
[44]
For those people who think increasing the number of lab slots will flood the BPC market, do not forget that the number of people who are avaliable to buy BPCs has also increased with the enlarged playerbase.
Harry Voyager
|
KarateKid
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 11:17:00 -
[45]
Edited by: KarateKid on 15/08/2004 11:18:47
Quote:
I just hope the supply/demand function was also implemented for office spaces as they are even a larger problem.
I couldn't agree more. Currently offices are near impossible to find in any laction worth having an office in. And lots of corps have LOTS of offices they don't use. I mean c'mon 10k for 30days?
|
KarateKid
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 11:17:00 -
[46]
Edited by: KarateKid on 15/08/2004 11:18:47
Quote:
I just hope the supply/demand function was also implemented for office spaces as they are even a larger problem.
I couldn't agree more. Currently offices are near impossible to find in any laction worth having an office in. And lots of corps have LOTS of offices they don't use. I mean c'mon 10k for 30days?
|
Paws Scout
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 21:23:00 -
[47]
i think you all need to take a chill pill 
a 5% increase a week is not much when the base price is only 1000 isk a week
the earlyest we will start seeing results are in 2-3 months (proberly after Shiva and the POS) cause of the increase in lab slots that shiva will cause
I do feel this was a good start (although adding 2 0's behind the lab slot price (bringing them up to 100000) to start with would have been good (and then let them drop from there when slots was freed)) with that said this was only the start a max ME from CCP would be a added bonus mind you the way around that is just to create 100000 1500 copy's of that shuttle BPO (not cause you need them but to tie up the slots) the problem will not be solved till peoble see the slots opening up cause there are corps/individuals out there hogging the slots and that causes the rest of us to rent every slot we see
maybe the only real solution to this would be to make the slots unrent every week forcing every researcher back to rerent the slots and forcing you to reinstall the BPO as i doubt most of the slot huggers out there would remember to rerent their slots
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Paws Scout
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 21:23:00 -
[48]
i think you all need to take a chill pill
a 5% increase a week is not much when the base price is only 1000 isk a week
the earlyest we will start seeing results are in 2-3 months (proberly after Shiva and the POS) cause of the increase in lab slots that shiva will cause
I do feel this was a good start (although adding 2 0's behind the lab slot price (bringing them up to 100000) to start with would have been good (and then let them drop from there when slots was freed)) with that said this was only the start a max ME from CCP would be a added bonus mind you the way around that is just to create 100000 1500 copy's of that shuttle BPO (not cause you need them but to tie up the slots) the problem will not be solved till peoble see the slots opening up cause there are corps/individuals out there hogging the slots and that causes the rest of us to rent every slot we see
maybe the only real solution to this would be to make the slots unrent every week forcing every researcher back to rerent the slots and forcing you to reinstall the BPO as i doubt most of the slot huggers out there would remember to rerent their slots
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Mari Y'Tuk
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 21:51:00 -
[49]
its 5% a day, 40.7% a week, 392% a month
Day 1, 1,000
Day 7, 1,407
Day 30, 3,920
Day 90, 80,730
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Mari Y'Tuk
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 21:51:00 -
[50]
its 5% a day, 40.7% a week, 392% a month
Day 1, 1,000
Day 7, 1,407
Day 30, 3,920
Day 90, 80,730
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 22:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
For those people who think increasing the number of lab slots will flood the BPC market, do not forget that the number of people who are avaliable to buy BPCs has also increased with the enlarged playerbase.
Harry Voyager
There's on little, huge gigantic flaw with that argument which unfortunately negates it.
That is: BPc prices have NOT risen. BPC supply, given the present supply of labslots, is still meeting all demand. Increasing labslots will only push BPC prices DOWN even further, flooding an allready low market.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 22:56:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
For those people who think increasing the number of lab slots will flood the BPC market, do not forget that the number of people who are avaliable to buy BPCs has also increased with the enlarged playerbase.
Harry Voyager
There's on little, huge gigantic flaw with that argument which unfortunately negates it.
That is: BPc prices have NOT risen. BPC supply, given the present supply of labslots, is still meeting all demand. Increasing labslots will only push BPC prices DOWN even further, flooding an allready low market.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Paws Scout
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 23:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mari Y'Tuk
its 5% a day, 40.7% a week, 392% a month
Day 1, 1,000
Day 7, 1,407
Day 30, 3,920
Day 90, 80,730
arr its per day not per week thats good
still after 90 days its still "only" 90k i think it wont be after the prices reach a much higher number before peoble stop to think if they really need the lab slots
still its a start although it does not solve the problem
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Paws Scout
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 23:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mari Y'Tuk
its 5% a day, 40.7% a week, 392% a month
Day 1, 1,000
Day 7, 1,407
Day 30, 3,920
Day 90, 80,730
arr its per day not per week thats good
still after 90 days its still "only" 90k i think it wont be after the prices reach a much higher number before peoble stop to think if they really need the lab slots
still its a start although it does not solve the problem
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Vladimir Illyvich
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 00:02:00 -
[55]
Quote:
That is: BPc prices have NOT risen. BPC supply, given the present supply of labslots, is still meeting all demand. Increasing labslots will only push BPC prices DOWN even further, flooding an allready low market.
BPC have a very strict upper price limit, namely that they can not go higher than it costs to produce the product and still save money over buying it finished.
Since they are by my calculations at around 90-95% of that limit, i'd say the bpc are already as high as they can go.
|
Vladimir Illyvich
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 00:02:00 -
[56]
Quote:
That is: BPc prices have NOT risen. BPC supply, given the present supply of labslots, is still meeting all demand. Increasing labslots will only push BPC prices DOWN even further, flooding an allready low market.
BPC have a very strict upper price limit, namely that they can not go higher than it costs to produce the product and still save money over buying it finished.
Since they are by my calculations at around 90-95% of that limit, i'd say the bpc are already as high as they can go.
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 00:35:00 -
[57]
5% is clearly not enough,
those who have humped all the slots have probably made billions by now
so they will continue humping all the lab slots.
POS is too far away to be a solution for a problem that
has been there for too long.
but i can't flame CCP cause i honestly do not know
what they can do to both "kill" the lab humpers,
and make labs available and affordable to freelancers.
p.s.: and no, making price rise based on rented slots by a
single individual/corp won't help, it's an alt world baby!
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 00:35:00 -
[58]
5% is clearly not enough,
those who have humped all the slots have probably made billions by now
so they will continue humping all the lab slots.
POS is too far away to be a solution for a problem that
has been there for too long.
but i can't flame CCP cause i honestly do not know
what they can do to both "kill" the lab humpers,
and make labs available and affordable to freelancers.
p.s.: and no, making price rise based on rented slots by a
single individual/corp won't help, it's an alt world baby!
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Armaki Kalear
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 01:03:00 -
[59]
There are two problems that dynamic pricing should fix.
Firstly, the inherent value of research (ME, copies etc) exponentially decayed from the moment eve started. The end of unlimited BPC's stemmed this trend, but a 1000 isk fee for 5 days of research is still a good approximation of "free".
Secondly, the hording of slots. As lab and office slot usage neared 80%, like surface tension, remaining slots were snapped up. This started with office slots in superhighway systems, but for the remainder of this post I'll talk about lab slots. There was a sudden trend in people trading slots. Once this started there came a specific group of players (extortionist  ) who travelled around buying up slots and selling them back to locals.
I say extortionists because this action created the market. It's like releasing a virus and then selling the antivirus. If it was real life, the supply would increase, but in Eve's case that was in the hands of the Devs.
Because of this business, legitimate users started protecting their lab slots by doing infinite me research, which compounds the problem.
So, there are three ways to use a slot:
1. Trading as a commodity.
2. Holding by doing infinite, pointless ME research.
3. Use by significant ME research or BPc's.
Only the third use will survive a supply/demand system because the first two do not allow the slot to produce a value while in use.
As the price rises, some users from each group will be forced to give up their slots. When there are *some* slots available, nobody will pay traders for slots, rendering that practice unsuccessful (on a per station basis). Once traders are squeezed out, legitimate users are less likely to defensively use their slots (and it becomes an expensive type of 'tanking' anyway).
So, it's a good thing.
The trick is, we will have to wait a long time to see results. If the price change was greater (say 20%), people would be forced out quicker but it would be a much less stable 'steady-state' and that would create ripples through BPc prices...
My prediction is that superhighway system research slots will be used for BPc production and the further form superhighways you go youÆll find ME/PE research taking place.
--
Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs |
Armaki Kalear
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 01:03:00 -
[60]
There are two problems that dynamic pricing should fix.
Firstly, the inherent value of research (ME, copies etc) exponentially decayed from the moment eve started. The end of unlimited BPC's stemmed this trend, but a 1000 isk fee for 5 days of research is still a good approximation of "free".
Secondly, the hording of slots. As lab and office slot usage neared 80%, like surface tension, remaining slots were snapped up. This started with office slots in superhighway systems, but for the remainder of this post I'll talk about lab slots. There was a sudden trend in people trading slots. Once this started there came a specific group of players (extortionist ) who travelled around buying up slots and selling them back to locals.
I say extortionists because this action created the market. It's like releasing a virus and then selling the antivirus. If it was real life, the supply would increase, but in Eve's case that was in the hands of the Devs.
Because of this business, legitimate users started protecting their lab slots by doing infinite me research, which compounds the problem.
So, there are three ways to use a slot:
1. Trading as a commodity.
2. Holding by doing infinite, pointless ME research.
3. Use by significant ME research or BPc's.
Only the third use will survive a supply/demand system because the first two do not allow the slot to produce a value while in use.
As the price rises, some users from each group will be forced to give up their slots. When there are *some* slots available, nobody will pay traders for slots, rendering that practice unsuccessful (on a per station basis). Once traders are squeezed out, legitimate users are less likely to defensively use their slots (and it becomes an expensive type of 'tanking' anyway).
So, it's a good thing.
The trick is, we will have to wait a long time to see results. If the price change was greater (say 20%), people would be forced out quicker but it would be a much less stable 'steady-state' and that would create ripples through BPc prices...
My prediction is that superhighway system research slots will be used for BPc production and the further form superhighways you go youÆll find ME/PE research taking place.
--
Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |