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Dave Day
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:10:00 -
[1]
I play EVE Freelance, I used to be in a corp but it doesn't suit my style of play. I've been lucky enough to have been in the game some time and have acquired 6 labs and 6 factory slots in the same station. I don't horde them, they are all kept busy and I make around 1.5 to 2 mill ISK per day from the output. It's not a fortune but it's enough for my char to grow and keep me interested.
However, with the 5% per day increase in slot prices it won't be long till I can't afford those slots and have to release them, thus ending my entire style of game play. Surely all that will come of this is that the slots will continue to be horded but just exclusively by the mega corps who can afford the rent?
IMHO, a very bad idea.....
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Dave Day
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:10:00 -
[2]
I play EVE Freelance, I used to be in a corp but it doesn't suit my style of play. I've been lucky enough to have been in the game some time and have acquired 6 labs and 6 factory slots in the same station. I don't horde them, they are all kept busy and I make around 1.5 to 2 mill ISK per day from the output. It's not a fortune but it's enough for my char to grow and keep me interested.
However, with the 5% per day increase in slot prices it won't be long till I can't afford those slots and have to release them, thus ending my entire style of game play. Surely all that will come of this is that the slots will continue to be horded but just exclusively by the mega corps who can afford the rent?
IMHO, a very bad idea.....
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Kalroth
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:21:00 -
[3]
Mega corp or not.
Once the slots aren't profitable, people will let them go.
It doesn't matter if you're a solo player or a mega corp.
I like the changes, maybe it's possible that people rent the slots for actual research/production and not just research their small ammo bpo to level 2000.
You just have to get rid of the 'must have slot 24/7' mentality. :)
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Kalroth
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:21:00 -
[4]
Mega corp or not.
Once the slots aren't profitable, people will let them go.
It doesn't matter if you're a solo player or a mega corp.
I like the changes, maybe it's possible that people rent the slots for actual research/production and not just research their small ammo bpo to level 2000.
You just have to get rid of the 'must have slot 24/7' mentality. :)
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Hakera
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:23:00 -
[5]
welcome to the world of supply and demand!
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:23:00 -
[6]
welcome to the world of supply and demand!
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Drilla
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:26:00 -
[7]
The increase is only when all slots are active - if you release two slots the price drops.
Supply/demand is they way to go - everything else in EVE is.
Another thing - work on setteling in a less attractive area with a lot of free slots?
-
*** pure moinage ***
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Drilla
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:26:00 -
[8]
The increase is only when all slots are active - if you release two slots the price drops.
Supply/demand is they way to go - everything else in EVE is.
Another thing - work on setteling in a less attractive area with a lot of free slots?
-
*** pure moinage ***
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:26:00 -
[9]
Quite simply ... STFU !!
 Quote:
However, with the 5% per day increase in slot prices it won't be long till I can't afford those slots and have to release them, thus ending my entire style of game play.
/me apologises after re-reading your post and realising that you were actually joking ...
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:26:00 -
[10]
Quite simply ... STFU !!
Quote:
However, with the 5% per day increase in slot prices it won't be long till I can't afford those slots and have to release them, thus ending my entire style of game play.
/me apologises after re-reading your post and realising that you were actually joking ...
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Aboath Greydroggen
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:41:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 14/08/2004 17:45:37
Quote:
The increase is only when all slots are active - if you release two slots the price drops.
quite frankly I need my labslots and if you release them I'll take em. And the price will keep going up. There will not be anymore free lab slots anytime soon. And that was the intention of the this price thingy.
I must say that I am starting to have my doubts aswell if this is a solution to the scrarseness of the slots. As I said I need the slots anyway. We own alot of bpo's and are not by a long shot done with getting them to the me/pe levels we want. Not talking s ammo here, but working on ships and m/l modules.
but for now I'll sitt back and watch what will happen.
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Aboath Greydroggen
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Posted - 2004.08.14 17:41:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 14/08/2004 17:45:37
Quote:
The increase is only when all slots are active - if you release two slots the price drops.
quite frankly I need my labslots and if you release them I'll take em. And the price will keep going up. There will not be anymore free lab slots anytime soon. And that was the intention of the this price thingy.
I must say that I am starting to have my doubts aswell if this is a solution to the scrarseness of the slots. As I said I need the slots anyway. We own alot of bpo's and are not by a long shot done with getting them to the me/pe levels we want. Not talking s ammo here, but working on ships and m/l modules.
but for now I'll sitt back and watch what will happen.
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Valrandir
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Posted - 2004.08.14 19:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dave Day
I play EVE Freelance, I used to be in a corp but it doesn't suit my style of play. I've been lucky enough to have been in the game some time and have acquired 6 labs and 6 factory slots in the same station. I don't horde them, they are all kept busy and I make around 1.5 to 2 mill ISK per day from the output. It's not a fortune but it's enough for my char to grow and keep me interested.
However, with the 5% per day increase in slot prices it won't be long till I can't afford those slots and have to release them, thus ending my entire style of game play. Surely all that will come of this is that the slots will continue to be horded but just exclusively by the mega corps who can afford the rent?
IMHO, a very bad idea.....
You would not say that if we were among the majority who don't have any laboratories. I have 9 labs but still I welcome this pricing change, because I see farther then my own personnal interest.
--------------------------------
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Valrandir
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Posted - 2004.08.14 19:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dave Day
I play EVE Freelance, I used to be in a corp but it doesn't suit my style of play. I've been lucky enough to have been in the game some time and have acquired 6 labs and 6 factory slots in the same station. I don't horde them, they are all kept busy and I make around 1.5 to 2 mill ISK per day from the output. It's not a fortune but it's enough for my char to grow and keep me interested.
However, with the 5% per day increase in slot prices it won't be long till I can't afford those slots and have to release them, thus ending my entire style of game play. Surely all that will come of this is that the slots will continue to be horded but just exclusively by the mega corps who can afford the rent?
IMHO, a very bad idea.....
You would not say that if we were among the majority who don't have any laboratories. I have 9 labs but still I welcome this pricing change, because I see farther then my own personnal interest.
--------------------------------
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Aboath Greydroggen
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Posted - 2004.08.14 19:36:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 14/08/2004 19:38:15
a few hours later ingame...
The people who expect to be getting labslots soon because of the pricing will surely be dissapointed.
Why ?
Me and my kind. People who have a large bp collection and who take pride in improving them.
Because not only will the lab rents rise, also the factory rents will drop. I've had a few bills to pay just now and sofar factory rent decrease keeps the lab rent increase in balance.
Imo a hard limit to the slot amount one/a corp can hold is the only way to go if a fast change is wanted.
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Aboath Greydroggen
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Posted - 2004.08.14 19:36:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 14/08/2004 19:38:15
a few hours later ingame...
The people who expect to be getting labslots soon because of the pricing will surely be dissapointed.
Why ?
Me and my kind. People who have a large bp collection and who take pride in improving them.
Because not only will the lab rents rise, also the factory rents will drop. I've had a few bills to pay just now and sofar factory rent decrease keeps the lab rent increase in balance.
Imo a hard limit to the slot amount one/a corp can hold is the only way to go if a fast change is wanted.
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.08.14 20:06:00 -
[17]
everyone does realised how ME research affects waste don't they?
that ME 10 is not twice as good as ME 5?
maybe if this was made common knowledge (read: beaten into people) there'd be less rediculous research going on
__________________________________________
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.08.14 20:06:00 -
[18]
everyone does realised how ME research affects waste don't they?
that ME 10 is not twice as good as ME 5?
maybe if this was made common knowledge (read: beaten into people) there'd be less rediculous research going on
__________________________________________
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Barth3zzzNL
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Posted - 2004.08.14 20:47:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Barth3zzzNL on 14/08/2004 20:52:18
There are Piles of Empty Lab slots in alliance space.
Yes it requires some work to get them, yes getting you BPOS there is pain in the ass.
Setting up insta BMs will help though.
The rent around here 2000 isk 
Edit:
@Tokka Konnair people arent researching worthless bpos up to ME2000 because theyll think it saves them mines, theyre doing it to prevent the labs slot from unrenting due to "It not being in use".
Just because they dont need those labs atm doesnt mean they wont in the future. Thats why theyre researching useless bpos. 
---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Barth3zzzNL
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Posted - 2004.08.14 20:47:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Barth3zzzNL on 14/08/2004 20:52:18
There are Piles of Empty Lab slots in alliance space.
Yes it requires some work to get them, yes getting you BPOS there is pain in the ass.
Setting up insta BMs will help though.
The rent around here 2000 isk
Edit:
@Tokka Konnair people arent researching worthless bpos up to ME2000 because theyll think it saves them mines, theyre doing it to prevent the labs slot from unrenting due to "It not being in use".
Just because they dont need those labs atm doesnt mean they wont in the future. Thats why theyre researching useless bpos.
---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:05:00 -
[21]
perhaps the solution is a maximum ME level?
__________________________________________
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:05:00 -
[22]
perhaps the solution is a maximum ME level?
__________________________________________
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:20:00 -
[23]
Yep - this looks like a really stupid change.
Today I have no lab slots because I cannot find any.
Tomorrow, I wont be able to afford them.
And dont mention supply and demand. There is no way the lab pricing scheme maps to any normal supply/demand curves.
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DeFood
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:20:00 -
[24]
Yep - this looks like a really stupid change.
Today I have no lab slots because I cannot find any.
Tomorrow, I wont be able to afford them.
And dont mention supply and demand. There is no way the lab pricing scheme maps to any normal supply/demand curves.
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Aboath Greydroggen
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:38:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 14/08/2004 21:40:48
Quote:
everyone does realised how ME research affects waste don't they?
that ME 10 is not twice as good as ME 5?
maybe if this was made common knowledge (read: beaten into people) there'd be less rediculous research going on
Rest assure ppl know, here is a quote from a thread some time ago. Sry can't find the posters name only have the text
Quote:
Ok heres a little info, and some maths:
Take the waste factor of a blueprint, no matter what the waste factor is (any level of ME should work). Take also the most used mineral on the blueprint.
Most Used Mineral Value / (1 + Waste Factor Value) = Absolute Minimum for that Mineral.
For example, my blueprint may say it has a requirement of 1760 tritanium, and has a waste factor of 0.1:
1760 / (1 + 0.1) = 1600
That is the least amount of that mineral you can ever ever use. So to find the level of research you will require to get to that perfection, you would need to take 20%.
1600 x 0.2 = 320
Why 20% I hear you say?
Well for every fractional value there in a build, it is rounded to the nearest whole integer. Up or down.
What we are aiming to do is reach a research level that will result in 1600.49 tritanium required. At which point it will round down to 1600.
How can we test this?
Ok similarly we can work out the waste factor at a set Mineral level with the following:
Original Blueprint Waste Factor (0.1 or 0.05) / (1 + ME level)
For example:
0.1 / (1 + 320) = 0.0003115
To work out how much of a mineral is used in a build, we take the Absolute Minimum and multiply by (1 + Waste Factor).
1600 x (1 + 0.0003115) = 1600.4984
This value will round down to 1600, therefore we have achieved perfection at Mineral Level 320 for this fictional blueprint.
I hope that helps you understand how things work a little.
gues that also answers your second post here. There is a max level, namely the point where the bp reaches perfect state.
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Aboath Greydroggen
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Posted - 2004.08.14 21:38:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 14/08/2004 21:40:48
Quote:
everyone does realised how ME research affects waste don't they?
that ME 10 is not twice as good as ME 5?
maybe if this was made common knowledge (read: beaten into people) there'd be less rediculous research going on
Rest assure ppl know, here is a quote from a thread some time ago. Sry can't find the posters name only have the text
Quote:
Ok heres a little info, and some maths:
Take the waste factor of a blueprint, no matter what the waste factor is (any level of ME should work). Take also the most used mineral on the blueprint.
Most Used Mineral Value / (1 + Waste Factor Value) = Absolute Minimum for that Mineral.
For example, my blueprint may say it has a requirement of 1760 tritanium, and has a waste factor of 0.1:
1760 / (1 + 0.1) = 1600
That is the least amount of that mineral you can ever ever use. So to find the level of research you will require to get to that perfection, you would need to take 20%.
1600 x 0.2 = 320
Why 20% I hear you say?
Well for every fractional value there in a build, it is rounded to the nearest whole integer. Up or down.
What we are aiming to do is reach a research level that will result in 1600.49 tritanium required. At which point it will round down to 1600.
How can we test this?
Ok similarly we can work out the waste factor at a set Mineral level with the following:
Original Blueprint Waste Factor (0.1 or 0.05) / (1 + ME level)
For example:
0.1 / (1 + 320) = 0.0003115
To work out how much of a mineral is used in a build, we take the Absolute Minimum and multiply by (1 + Waste Factor).
1600 x (1 + 0.0003115) = 1600.4984
This value will round down to 1600, therefore we have achieved perfection at Mineral Level 320 for this fictional blueprint.
I hope that helps you understand how things work a little.
gues that also answers your second post here. There is a max level, namely the point where the bp reaches perfect state.
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.08.14 22:20:00 -
[27]
... but that's not the maximum ... you can research a print well beyond that for the purposes of tying up a lab slot
__________________________________________
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Tokka Konnair
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Posted - 2004.08.14 22:20:00 -
[28]
... but that's not the maximum ... you can research a print well beyond that for the purposes of tying up a lab slot
__________________________________________
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TGIF
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Posted - 2004.08.14 22:32:00 -
[29]
Normally when there is more demand the tax or costs are not raised 5% a day, the commodity which is in demand would be build or made room for so more people can use it.
There should atleast be 10% more labslots and the price should be raised 5% per week.
- - -
Absinthe Fueled |
TGIF
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Posted - 2004.08.14 22:32:00 -
[30]
Normally when there is more demand the tax or costs are not raised 5% a day, the commodity which is in demand would be build or made room for so more people can use it.
There should atleast be 10% more labslots and the price should be raised 5% per week.
- - -
Absinthe Fueled |
Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2004.08.14 23:19:00 -
[31]
Soon there will be POS... so what does this do now. Just another knee jerk NERF.
The problem is that the play base actually grew. The exiting labs and factories were ok for a 3k player base but not for a 10k one. Either increase labs or put things back and let everyone wait for Shiva.
This is the dumbest change since CCP last killed the player based economy.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2004.08.14 23:19:00 -
[32]
Soon there will be POS... so what does this do now. Just another knee jerk NERF.
The problem is that the play base actually grew. The exiting labs and factories were ok for a 3k player base but not for a 10k one. Either increase labs or put things back and let everyone wait for Shiva.
This is the dumbest change since CCP last killed the player based economy.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Surefoot
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Posted - 2004.08.15 00:05:00 -
[33]
It increases by 5% a day? So a year from now a slot that's never stopped increasing will be over 50 billion isk in rent?
That's one hell of a money sink.
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Surefoot
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Posted - 2004.08.15 00:05:00 -
[34]
It increases by 5% a day? So a year from now a slot that's never stopped increasing will be over 50 billion isk in rent?
That's one hell of a money sink.
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Astinius
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Posted - 2004.08.15 04:50:00 -
[35]
6 slots? I am lucky to have 1 because of players like you. I pray they get so expensive you have to drop all but 1.
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Astinius
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Posted - 2004.08.15 04:50:00 -
[36]
6 slots? I am lucky to have 1 because of players like you. I pray they get so expensive you have to drop all but 1.
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Jubjub Kushrenada
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Posted - 2004.08.15 05:00:00 -
[37]
It's a nice idea, but I doubt it'll work. The easiest way is to limit the number of slots a person/corp can own. They can do it for people based on lab ops skill, and for a corp, perhaps it could just be by 1 per member.
They should also increase the number of lab slots available, maybe not across the board, but based on location. A lot of people complain that this will flood the BPC market, but I don't believe that. How many slots are actually in productive use right now? I'd bet a lot of ISK that most are being held by large corps or slot hoarders and researching shuttles to ME 10000000000 so they don't lose the slot, or are pounding out ammo copies in the hundreds. I'm sure the vast majority aren't being put to a use that will contribute to or effect the economy, so adding more slots won't really put a dent in the BPC market.
But does it go up per day or per week? Clarification would be nice.
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Jubjub Kushrenada
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Posted - 2004.08.15 05:00:00 -
[38]
It's a nice idea, but I doubt it'll work. The easiest way is to limit the number of slots a person/corp can own. They can do it for people based on lab ops skill, and for a corp, perhaps it could just be by 1 per member.
They should also increase the number of lab slots available, maybe not across the board, but based on location. A lot of people complain that this will flood the BPC market, but I don't believe that. How many slots are actually in productive use right now? I'd bet a lot of ISK that most are being held by large corps or slot hoarders and researching shuttles to ME 10000000000 so they don't lose the slot, or are pounding out ammo copies in the hundreds. I'm sure the vast majority aren't being put to a use that will contribute to or effect the economy, so adding more slots won't really put a dent in the BPC market.
But does it go up per day or per week? Clarification would be nice.
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Gravimetric
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Posted - 2004.08.15 05:26:00 -
[39]
I just hope the supply/demand function was also implemented for office spaces as they are even a larger problem.
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Gravimetric
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Posted - 2004.08.15 05:26:00 -
[40]
I just hope the supply/demand function was also implemented for office spaces as they are even a larger problem.
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Aboath Greydroggen
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Posted - 2004.08.15 07:55:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 15/08/2004 07:56:27
Quote:
... but that's not the maximum ... you can research a print well beyond that for the purposes of tying up a lab slot
True
Quote:
The problem is that the play base actually grew. The exiting labs and factories were ok for a 3k player base but not for a 10k one.
VERY true
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Aboath Greydroggen
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Posted - 2004.08.15 07:55:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Aboath Greydroggen on 15/08/2004 07:56:27
Quote:
... but that's not the maximum ... you can research a print well beyond that for the purposes of tying up a lab slot
True
Quote:
The problem is that the play base actually grew. The exiting labs and factories were ok for a 3k player base but not for a 10k one.
VERY true
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.08.15 09:36:00 -
[43]
For those people who think increasing the number of lab slots will flood the BPC market, do not forget that the number of people who are avaliable to buy BPCs has also increased with the enlarged playerbase.
Harry Voyager
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2004.08.15 09:36:00 -
[44]
For those people who think increasing the number of lab slots will flood the BPC market, do not forget that the number of people who are avaliable to buy BPCs has also increased with the enlarged playerbase.
Harry Voyager
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KarateKid
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Posted - 2004.08.15 11:17:00 -
[45]
Edited by: KarateKid on 15/08/2004 11:18:47
Quote:
I just hope the supply/demand function was also implemented for office spaces as they are even a larger problem.
I couldn't agree more. Currently offices are near impossible to find in any laction worth having an office in. And lots of corps have LOTS of offices they don't use. I mean c'mon 10k for 30days?
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KarateKid
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Posted - 2004.08.15 11:17:00 -
[46]
Edited by: KarateKid on 15/08/2004 11:18:47
Quote:
I just hope the supply/demand function was also implemented for office spaces as they are even a larger problem.
I couldn't agree more. Currently offices are near impossible to find in any laction worth having an office in. And lots of corps have LOTS of offices they don't use. I mean c'mon 10k for 30days?
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Paws Scout
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Posted - 2004.08.15 21:23:00 -
[47]
i think you all need to take a chill pill
a 5% increase a week is not much when the base price is only 1000 isk a week
the earlyest we will start seeing results are in 2-3 months (proberly after Shiva and the POS) cause of the increase in lab slots that shiva will cause
I do feel this was a good start (although adding 2 0's behind the lab slot price (bringing them up to 100000) to start with would have been good (and then let them drop from there when slots was freed)) with that said this was only the start a max ME from CCP would be a added bonus mind you the way around that is just to create 100000 1500 copy's of that shuttle BPO (not cause you need them but to tie up the slots) the problem will not be solved till peoble see the slots opening up cause there are corps/individuals out there hogging the slots and that causes the rest of us to rent every slot we see
maybe the only real solution to this would be to make the slots unrent every week forcing every researcher back to rerent the slots and forcing you to reinstall the BPO as i doubt most of the slot huggers out there would remember to rerent their slots
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Paws Scout
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Posted - 2004.08.15 21:23:00 -
[48]
i think you all need to take a chill pill
a 5% increase a week is not much when the base price is only 1000 isk a week
the earlyest we will start seeing results are in 2-3 months (proberly after Shiva and the POS) cause of the increase in lab slots that shiva will cause
I do feel this was a good start (although adding 2 0's behind the lab slot price (bringing them up to 100000) to start with would have been good (and then let them drop from there when slots was freed)) with that said this was only the start a max ME from CCP would be a added bonus mind you the way around that is just to create 100000 1500 copy's of that shuttle BPO (not cause you need them but to tie up the slots) the problem will not be solved till peoble see the slots opening up cause there are corps/individuals out there hogging the slots and that causes the rest of us to rent every slot we see
maybe the only real solution to this would be to make the slots unrent every week forcing every researcher back to rerent the slots and forcing you to reinstall the BPO as i doubt most of the slot huggers out there would remember to rerent their slots
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.08.15 21:51:00 -
[49]
its 5% a day, 40.7% a week, 392% a month
Day 1, 1,000
Day 7, 1,407
Day 30, 3,920
Day 90, 80,730
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.08.15 21:51:00 -
[50]
its 5% a day, 40.7% a week, 392% a month
Day 1, 1,000
Day 7, 1,407
Day 30, 3,920
Day 90, 80,730
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.08.15 22:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
For those people who think increasing the number of lab slots will flood the BPC market, do not forget that the number of people who are avaliable to buy BPCs has also increased with the enlarged playerbase.
Harry Voyager
There's on little, huge gigantic flaw with that argument which unfortunately negates it.
That is: BPc prices have NOT risen. BPC supply, given the present supply of labslots, is still meeting all demand. Increasing labslots will only push BPC prices DOWN even further, flooding an allready low market.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.08.15 22:56:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
For those people who think increasing the number of lab slots will flood the BPC market, do not forget that the number of people who are avaliable to buy BPCs has also increased with the enlarged playerbase.
Harry Voyager
There's on little, huge gigantic flaw with that argument which unfortunately negates it.
That is: BPc prices have NOT risen. BPC supply, given the present supply of labslots, is still meeting all demand. Increasing labslots will only push BPC prices DOWN even further, flooding an allready low market.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Paws Scout
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 23:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mari Y'Tuk
its 5% a day, 40.7% a week, 392% a month
Day 1, 1,000
Day 7, 1,407
Day 30, 3,920
Day 90, 80,730
arr its per day not per week thats good
still after 90 days its still "only" 90k i think it wont be after the prices reach a much higher number before peoble stop to think if they really need the lab slots
still its a start although it does not solve the problem
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Paws Scout
|
Posted - 2004.08.15 23:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mari Y'Tuk
its 5% a day, 40.7% a week, 392% a month
Day 1, 1,000
Day 7, 1,407
Day 30, 3,920
Day 90, 80,730
arr its per day not per week thats good
still after 90 days its still "only" 90k i think it wont be after the prices reach a much higher number before peoble stop to think if they really need the lab slots
still its a start although it does not solve the problem
This Is a Scout of Paw Sandberg 's (main account) |
Vladimir Illyvich
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 00:02:00 -
[55]
Quote:
That is: BPc prices have NOT risen. BPC supply, given the present supply of labslots, is still meeting all demand. Increasing labslots will only push BPC prices DOWN even further, flooding an allready low market.
BPC have a very strict upper price limit, namely that they can not go higher than it costs to produce the product and still save money over buying it finished.
Since they are by my calculations at around 90-95% of that limit, i'd say the bpc are already as high as they can go.
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Vladimir Illyvich
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 00:02:00 -
[56]
Quote:
That is: BPc prices have NOT risen. BPC supply, given the present supply of labslots, is still meeting all demand. Increasing labslots will only push BPC prices DOWN even further, flooding an allready low market.
BPC have a very strict upper price limit, namely that they can not go higher than it costs to produce the product and still save money over buying it finished.
Since they are by my calculations at around 90-95% of that limit, i'd say the bpc are already as high as they can go.
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.08.16 00:35:00 -
[57]
5% is clearly not enough,
those who have humped all the slots have probably made billions by now
so they will continue humping all the lab slots.
POS is too far away to be a solution for a problem that
has been there for too long.
but i can't flame CCP cause i honestly do not know
what they can do to both "kill" the lab humpers,
and make labs available and affordable to freelancers.
p.s.: and no, making price rise based on rented slots by a
single individual/corp won't help, it's an alt world baby!
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
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Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 00:35:00 -
[58]
5% is clearly not enough,
those who have humped all the slots have probably made billions by now
so they will continue humping all the lab slots.
POS is too far away to be a solution for a problem that
has been there for too long.
but i can't flame CCP cause i honestly do not know
what they can do to both "kill" the lab humpers,
and make labs available and affordable to freelancers.
p.s.: and no, making price rise based on rented slots by a
single individual/corp won't help, it's an alt world baby!
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Armaki Kalear
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 01:03:00 -
[59]
There are two problems that dynamic pricing should fix.
Firstly, the inherent value of research (ME, copies etc) exponentially decayed from the moment eve started. The end of unlimited BPC's stemmed this trend, but a 1000 isk fee for 5 days of research is still a good approximation of "free".
Secondly, the hording of slots. As lab and office slot usage neared 80%, like surface tension, remaining slots were snapped up. This started with office slots in superhighway systems, but for the remainder of this post I'll talk about lab slots. There was a sudden trend in people trading slots. Once this started there came a specific group of players (extortionist  ) who travelled around buying up slots and selling them back to locals.
I say extortionists because this action created the market. It's like releasing a virus and then selling the antivirus. If it was real life, the supply would increase, but in Eve's case that was in the hands of the Devs.
Because of this business, legitimate users started protecting their lab slots by doing infinite me research, which compounds the problem.
So, there are three ways to use a slot:
1. Trading as a commodity.
2. Holding by doing infinite, pointless ME research.
3. Use by significant ME research or BPc's.
Only the third use will survive a supply/demand system because the first two do not allow the slot to produce a value while in use.
As the price rises, some users from each group will be forced to give up their slots. When there are *some* slots available, nobody will pay traders for slots, rendering that practice unsuccessful (on a per station basis). Once traders are squeezed out, legitimate users are less likely to defensively use their slots (and it becomes an expensive type of 'tanking' anyway).
So, it's a good thing.
The trick is, we will have to wait a long time to see results. If the price change was greater (say 20%), people would be forced out quicker but it would be a much less stable 'steady-state' and that would create ripples through BPc prices...
My prediction is that superhighway system research slots will be used for BPc production and the further form superhighways you go youÆll find ME/PE research taking place.
--
Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs |
Armaki Kalear
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 01:03:00 -
[60]
There are two problems that dynamic pricing should fix.
Firstly, the inherent value of research (ME, copies etc) exponentially decayed from the moment eve started. The end of unlimited BPC's stemmed this trend, but a 1000 isk fee for 5 days of research is still a good approximation of "free".
Secondly, the hording of slots. As lab and office slot usage neared 80%, like surface tension, remaining slots were snapped up. This started with office slots in superhighway systems, but for the remainder of this post I'll talk about lab slots. There was a sudden trend in people trading slots. Once this started there came a specific group of players (extortionist ) who travelled around buying up slots and selling them back to locals.
I say extortionists because this action created the market. It's like releasing a virus and then selling the antivirus. If it was real life, the supply would increase, but in Eve's case that was in the hands of the Devs.
Because of this business, legitimate users started protecting their lab slots by doing infinite me research, which compounds the problem.
So, there are three ways to use a slot:
1. Trading as a commodity.
2. Holding by doing infinite, pointless ME research.
3. Use by significant ME research or BPc's.
Only the third use will survive a supply/demand system because the first two do not allow the slot to produce a value while in use.
As the price rises, some users from each group will be forced to give up their slots. When there are *some* slots available, nobody will pay traders for slots, rendering that practice unsuccessful (on a per station basis). Once traders are squeezed out, legitimate users are less likely to defensively use their slots (and it becomes an expensive type of 'tanking' anyway).
So, it's a good thing.
The trick is, we will have to wait a long time to see results. If the price change was greater (say 20%), people would be forced out quicker but it would be a much less stable 'steady-state' and that would create ripples through BPc prices...
My prediction is that superhighway system research slots will be used for BPc production and the further form superhighways you go youÆll find ME/PE research taking place.
--
Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs |
Haratu
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 01:44:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Dave Day
I play EVE Freelance, I used to be in a corp but it doesn't suit my style of play. I've been lucky enough to have been in the game some time and have acquired 6 labs and 6 factory slots in the same station.
 you have to be joking... i can not understand why you would be complaining if you are a freelancer that is lucky enough to have the stuff you have... most freelancers never see half of the set up you have .
Be happy and dont complain.
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
Haratu
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 01:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Dave Day
I play EVE Freelance, I used to be in a corp but it doesn't suit my style of play. I've been lucky enough to have been in the game some time and have acquired 6 labs and 6 factory slots in the same station.
you have to be joking... i can not understand why you would be complaining if you are a freelancer that is lucky enough to have the stuff you have... most freelancers never see half of the set up you have.
Be happy and dont complain.
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
Exarch
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 02:31:00 -
[63]
offices really need to be 5-20mil a month, even freelance could afford that, but not several of them. its really hard to get an office anywhere decent. unlike labs you have to wait a month between bills before it can unrent itself.
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Exarch
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Posted - 2004.08.16 02:31:00 -
[64]
offices really need to be 5-20mil a month, even freelance could afford that, but not several of them. its really hard to get an office anywhere decent. unlike labs you have to wait a month between bills before it can unrent itself.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.08.16 04:19:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 16/08/2004 04:23:18
100k possibly but 20M, get off the drugs! This would end up with a few megacorporations having 2-3 offices each and the rest not bothering with them but arranging the swap of modules via secure containers around the moons.
We recently, in the last few weeks, got offices in the Great Wildlands and Geminate, you're just lazy.
Convert Stations
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Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 04:19:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 16/08/2004 04:23:18
100k possibly but 20M, get off the drugs! This would end up with a few megacorporations having 2-3 offices each and the rest not bothering with them but arranging the swap of modules via secure containers around the moons.
We recently, in the last few weeks, got offices in the Great Wildlands and Geminate, you're just lazy.
Convert Stations
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Aleyna
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 08:10:00 -
[67]
as someone who payed an extortionist 20m for 5 labslots, i find this whole deal fubared
yes it wont affect me for a while but in 3 month i'll be feeling it and honestly, i need my labs... i am not a lab hoarder as i have alts w/o labs
point is, you people say all these things bout most bpos not needing to be above me10 but you know what? i find that i can still have a small 250k to my build price when i bring it up from me10-20 and well, as a builder, that 250k means a lot in a competitive market...
no i dont have ammo bpos running atm to keep hoard the slots i payed for... i have some weapons and cruiser bpcs popping out and honestly, i pray that CCP will put a cap to the price... i understand paying 100k/week even 200k/week per lab... that's understandable but once you go into 500k/lab or even 750k/lab that is just extreme...
good to the 5% increase/day... but put a cap.. say 200k/week max/lab.. i understand the whole concept of the lack of slots but you know something? if you look hard enough you'll find them... i found them (for a price), my corpmate found 4 (with time)...
so yea, put a cap on the max it can go... otherwise you'll just have megacorps researching/producing bpcs and you'll still have the so called "freelancers" and "nubs" crying over the insane prices....
(oh and ps, my 5 labs are in a station below .5 and next to a system that had an average Podding rate of 5/day... so dont go telling me to go hunt further... i already lost a few bpos to some gankers...)
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Aleyna
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 08:10:00 -
[68]
as someone who payed an extortionist 20m for 5 labslots, i find this whole deal fubared
yes it wont affect me for a while but in 3 month i'll be feeling it and honestly, i need my labs... i am not a lab hoarder as i have alts w/o labs
point is, you people say all these things bout most bpos not needing to be above me10 but you know what? i find that i can still have a small 250k to my build price when i bring it up from me10-20 and well, as a builder, that 250k means a lot in a competitive market...
no i dont have ammo bpos running atm to keep hoard the slots i payed for... i have some weapons and cruiser bpcs popping out and honestly, i pray that CCP will put a cap to the price... i understand paying 100k/week even 200k/week per lab... that's understandable but once you go into 500k/lab or even 750k/lab that is just extreme...
good to the 5% increase/day... but put a cap.. say 200k/week max/lab.. i understand the whole concept of the lack of slots but you know something? if you look hard enough you'll find them... i found them (for a price), my corpmate found 4 (with time)...
so yea, put a cap on the max it can go... otherwise you'll just have megacorps researching/producing bpcs and you'll still have the so called "freelancers" and "nubs" crying over the insane prices....
(oh and ps, my 5 labs are in a station below .5 and next to a system that had an average Podding rate of 5/day... so dont go telling me to go hunt further... i already lost a few bpos to some gankers...)
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Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 08:34:00 -
[69]
Lets see if I understand this correct:
version A;
If a station has all its lab slots occupied then prices will rise by 5% per day, this increase will continue untill there are free slots in the station and at that time it will decrease by 5% per day.
version B;
each lab slot you own will get a dayly markup of 5% untill you unrent it.
What happens when you unrent it?
Will the slot price be reset to base price?
Or
Will the slot price drop by 5% per day untill its rented?
If A is used then Im all for it, that would meen the slot prices would be self regulatory, stations that are popular will become expensive and out of the way stations will become cheep.
Its true that originally all lab slots will become slowly more expensive as people do not release their hogged slots but as soon as the prices for the slots add upp people will start feeling the drain it has on their ecconomy and let go of slots they dont need.
The newly freed slots will naturally quickly be snapped upp by players eager to do research but as prices go up less and less people will be willing to pay the extreme prices anywhere but in the most accessable stations and thus move out to where the slots are cheeper.
eventually the slot price will reach the level people are willing to pay and thus a new balance will be acieved.
This would be the best way to regulate the lab slots in my opinion.
As for version B, it sux, the price for a lab slot would be based on how long YOU have been using them not what the populus is willing to pay to use one.
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 08:34:00 -
[70]
Lets see if I understand this correct:
version A;
If a station has all its lab slots occupied then prices will rise by 5% per day, this increase will continue untill there are free slots in the station and at that time it will decrease by 5% per day.
version B;
each lab slot you own will get a dayly markup of 5% untill you unrent it.
What happens when you unrent it?
Will the slot price be reset to base price?
Or
Will the slot price drop by 5% per day untill its rented?
If A is used then Im all for it, that would meen the slot prices would be self regulatory, stations that are popular will become expensive and out of the way stations will become cheep.
Its true that originally all lab slots will become slowly more expensive as people do not release their hogged slots but as soon as the prices for the slots add upp people will start feeling the drain it has on their ecconomy and let go of slots they dont need.
The newly freed slots will naturally quickly be snapped upp by players eager to do research but as prices go up less and less people will be willing to pay the extreme prices anywhere but in the most accessable stations and thus move out to where the slots are cheeper.
eventually the slot price will reach the level people are willing to pay and thus a new balance will be acieved.
This would be the best way to regulate the lab slots in my opinion.
As for version B, it sux, the price for a lab slot would be based on how long YOU have been using them not what the populus is willing to pay to use one.
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Valentine Keen
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 08:57:00 -
[71]
I believe the original dev blog indicated the system you indicate in A.
When full, prices go up.
When one free, prices stabilize.
When two or more free, prices fall.
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Valentine Keen
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 08:57:00 -
[72]
I believe the original dev blog indicated the system you indicate in A.
When full, prices go up.
When one free, prices stabilize.
When two or more free, prices fall.
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DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 09:59:00 -
[73]
I find in my current gameplay that I can quite comfortably make substantially less than 1mil isk per week. Nonetheless Id like to be able to rent a labslot - with an eye to using its output to sort out my cashflow issues.
Uncapped pricing, or even pricing thats close to or exceeding 100k per week will make me seriously reconsider my eve subscription. I dont want to be locked out of features because I prefer to play rather than work online.
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DeFood
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 09:59:00 -
[74]
I find in my current gameplay that I can quite comfortably make substantially less than 1mil isk per week. Nonetheless Id like to be able to rent a labslot - with an eye to using its output to sort out my cashflow issues.
Uncapped pricing, or even pricing thats close to or exceeding 100k per week will make me seriously reconsider my eve subscription. I dont want to be locked out of features because I prefer to play rather than work online.
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ruro
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:02:00 -
[75]
I think it would be nice to have a hard limit on the number of research labs an account can occupy, thus you can alt all you like, but only use say 2 lab slots (in the same way that you can only train skills for one character per account.)
However i'm just a noob, what do I know.
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ruro
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:02:00 -
[76]
I think it would be nice to have a hard limit on the number of research labs an account can occupy, thus you can alt all you like, but only use say 2 lab slots (in the same way that you can only train skills for one character per account.)
However i'm just a noob, what do I know.
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Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:38:00 -
[77]
ruro, actually this might be the solution if done a bit differently.
CCP, change the science skill, and add a second bonus to it:
number of lab slots held per skill level.
This, imho, would completely eradicate the labslot problem.
hmm.. even those 5acc people, 5x3=15labslots per acc, *5=75labslots
but whoever bothered to get 5 accs fully trained for research
deserves that kinda number of slots,
apart from that, skill-limit is definitely the way to go.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:38:00 -
[78]
ruro, actually this might be the solution if done a bit differently.
CCP, change the science skill, and add a second bonus to it:
number of lab slots held per skill level.
This, imho, would completely eradicate the labslot problem.
hmm.. even those 5acc people, 5x3=15labslots per acc, *5=75labslots
but whoever bothered to get 5 accs fully trained for research
deserves that kinda number of slots,
apart from that, skill-limit is definitely the way to go.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Dave Day
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:43:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Haratu
Originally by: Dave Day
I play EVE Freelance, I used to be in a corp but it doesn't suit my style of play. I've been lucky enough to have been in the game some time and have acquired 6 labs and 6 factory slots in the same station.
you have to be joking... i can not understand why you would be complaining if you are a freelancer that is lucky enough to have the stuff you have... most freelancers never see half of the set up you have.
Be happy and dont complain.
Did you read the rest of my post or just take out the part you wanted to flame about? My point is that I won't have those slots for much longer, I worked hard for a year in game to get this set up and will now just lose out to a corp who can afford the rent. My margins are very tight and it won't be long before I start losing ISK.
I used to trade, but they nerfed that so I took to manufacturing, but it seems that CCP remain as doggedly determined as ever to ensure that we all just mine for a living.
|
Dave Day
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:43:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Haratu
Originally by: Dave Day
I play EVE Freelance, I used to be in a corp but it doesn't suit my style of play. I've been lucky enough to have been in the game some time and have acquired 6 labs and 6 factory slots in the same station.
you have to be joking... i can not understand why you would be complaining if you are a freelancer that is lucky enough to have the stuff you have... most freelancers never see half of the set up you have.
Be happy and dont complain.
Did you read the rest of my post or just take out the part you wanted to flame about? My point is that I won't have those slots for much longer, I worked hard for a year in game to get this set up and will now just lose out to a corp who can afford the rent. My margins are very tight and it won't be long before I start losing ISK.
I used to trade, but they nerfed that so I took to manufacturing, but it seems that CCP remain as doggedly determined as ever to ensure that we all just mine for a living.
|
ruro
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:49:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Vex Seraphim
ruro, actually this might be the solution if done a bit differently.
CCP, change the science skill, and add a second bonus to it:
number of lab slots held per skill level.
This, imho, would completely eradicate the labslot problem.
hmm.. even those 5acc people, 5x3=15labslots per acc, *5=75labslots
but whoever bothered to get 5 accs fully trained for research
deserves that kinda number of slots,
apart from that, skill-limit is definitely the way to go.
As long as it's a rank 5 skill ;)
|
ruro
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:49:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Vex Seraphim
ruro, actually this might be the solution if done a bit differently.
CCP, change the science skill, and add a second bonus to it:
number of lab slots held per skill level.
This, imho, would completely eradicate the labslot problem.
hmm.. even those 5acc people, 5x3=15labslots per acc, *5=75labslots
but whoever bothered to get 5 accs fully trained for research
deserves that kinda number of slots,
apart from that, skill-limit is definitely the way to go.
As long as it's a rank 5 skill ;)
|
Valentine Keen
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:56:00 -
[83]
Originally by: ruro
Originally by: Vex Seraphim
ruro, actually this might be the solution if done a bit differently.
CCP, change the science skill, and add a second bonus to it:
number of lab slots held per skill level.
This, imho, would completely eradicate the labslot problem.
hmm.. even those 5acc people, 5x3=15labslots per acc, *5=75labslots
but whoever bothered to get 5 accs fully trained for research
deserves that kinda number of slots,
apart from that, skill-limit is definitely the way to go.
As long as it's a rank 5 skill ;)
This is what the lab operations skill already does.
It allows you to operate +1 lab per level. Thus a player without it can only operate 1 lab.
However, this doesn't mean they can only rent one lab, only that they can only use one at a time, so if they use their limited skills to put bp's in their labs one at a time, so long as they get used once per rental period, they keep them.
Thus, it doesn't matter how many skills they have, they can rent and keep as many as they like.
Fixing that, however, would seriously kill corp lab ownership, since, obviously, it's not the corp that uses them as an entity, but the skills of the members that use them for the corp.
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Valentine Keen
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:56:00 -
[84]
Originally by: ruro
Originally by: Vex Seraphim
ruro, actually this might be the solution if done a bit differently.
CCP, change the science skill, and add a second bonus to it:
number of lab slots held per skill level.
This, imho, would completely eradicate the labslot problem.
hmm.. even those 5acc people, 5x3=15labslots per acc, *5=75labslots
but whoever bothered to get 5 accs fully trained for research
deserves that kinda number of slots,
apart from that, skill-limit is definitely the way to go.
As long as it's a rank 5 skill ;)
This is what the lab operations skill already does.
It allows you to operate +1 lab per level. Thus a player without it can only operate 1 lab.
However, this doesn't mean they can only rent one lab, only that they can only use one at a time, so if they use their limited skills to put bp's in their labs one at a time, so long as they get used once per rental period, they keep them.
Thus, it doesn't matter how many skills they have, they can rent and keep as many as they like.
Fixing that, however, would seriously kill corp lab ownership, since, obviously, it's not the corp that uses them as an entity, but the skills of the members that use them for the corp.
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Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:57:00 -
[85]
didn't know, oh well, make it "rent" instead of "use"
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
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Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 10:57:00 -
[86]
didn't know, oh well, make it "rent" instead of "use"
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
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Mned Graydroggen
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 13:47:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Mned Graydroggen on 16/08/2004 13:49:12
This skill limit to the number of slots one can own has a flaw. Namely Corperations dont rent as individuals with skill levels.
Still I do believe that some manner of max number an individual (per skill?) and a corperation (per membercount ?)can hold is the only workable and most fair solution to this dilemma.
Further, I think the number of slots in Tranquility in general should be looked at. This number did not follow the increase of citicens in anyway.
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Mned Graydroggen
|
Posted - 2004.08.16 13:47:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Mned Graydroggen on 16/08/2004 13:49:12
This skill limit to the number of slots one can own has a flaw. Namely Corperations dont rent as individuals with skill levels.
Still I do believe that some manner of max number an individual (per skill?) and a corperation (per membercount ?)can hold is the only workable and most fair solution to this dilemma.
Further, I think the number of slots in Tranquility in general should be looked at. This number did not follow the increase of citicens in anyway.
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